http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1209/11/ijvm.01.htmlJANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Woman Tased for Spitting?;
George Zimmerman`s Friends Speak OutAired September 11, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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Plus, George Zimmerman`s best friends speak out, breaking their silence for the first time since Zimmerman shot unarmed teen, Trayvon Martin. These are the same friends who let the former Neighborhood Watch volunteer stay at their home after the shooting. What will they reveal?
On the other side, George Zimmerman`s BFFs speak out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman`s defense attorneys want Trayvon Martin`s school records. They plan to use those records in their defense strategy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trayvon Martin! Trayvon Martin!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon Martin! Trayvon Martin!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trayvon Martin! Trayvon Martin!
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: I said, "I don`t have a problem, man."
SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON MARTIN`S MOTHER: This is not about a black and white thing. This is about a right and wrong thing.
ZIMMERMAN (via phone): If the bond is 50, pay the 50.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $9,900, $9,900, $9,900, $9,900, $9,900, $9,900.
MARK O`MARA, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: It`s not the grand conspiracy that the state seems to suggest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, shooter George Zimmerman`s best friends are finally breaking their silence. This is the very couple who gave George Zimmerman and his wife a secret hideaway right after he was accused of shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin while the teen was holding only Skittles and an iced tea.
Listen to George Zimmerman`s best friends` account of what happened the night George Zimmerman is accused of murdering the unarmed teen. Watch this from "Dr. Phil."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PHIL MCGRAW, TALK SHOW HOST: Do you believe if he hadn`t had that gun and shot Trayvon that George Zimmerman would be dead today?
MARK OSTERMAN, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S FRIEND: I do.
SONDRA OSTERMAN, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S FRIEND: Absolutely.
MCGRAW: So you think Trayvon would have killed him?
S. OSTERMAN: Absolutely.
M. OSTERMAN: I believe so.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you serious? Are you serious?
M. OSTERMAN: If I can have one moment. George -- the injuries that he had to his head could not be sustained for any period of time without either becoming unconscious or dying. He said, "I`m blacking out. I feel I`m going to die." And he told the police that. He said that in a lie detector test, all of which they have. They`ve connected all this together. And from George`s perspective, he felt, "I am going to die."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: These are the injuries to George Zimmerman that his best friends are talking about, a broken nose, a pair of black eyes, two cuts on the back of his head and a minor back injury. This is a preview of the case Zimmerman`s defense attorney is likely to make, that it doesn`t matter what happened leading up to the altercation, because at the time Zimmerman shot Trayvon, he claimed he feared for his life.
Natalie Jackson, you are one of the attorneys for Trayvon Martin`s family. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Do you think this "I feared for my life" argument will stand up?
NATALIE JACKSON, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S FAMILY: Well, the fear has to be a reasonable fear, Jane. And that`s what we have to determine here. And that`s what a jury will have to determine, whether or not his fear was reasonable.
The fear -- we know that Trayvon was unarmed. We know that George Zimmerman had a gun. We know that the alleged injuries that George Zimmerman sustained did not require him to go to the emergency room. They required no treatment, no -- no stitches. He didn`t get any X-rays. He didn`t get any sort of tests that we can rely on that there was some injury.
When we look at these pictures, even the pictures of him afterwards, these were the injuries that you get from a fight. You cannot use deadly force in retaliation to a fight, a fistfight.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think this is going to be the crux of this upcoming case.
Now, this best friend of shooter George Zimmerman -- Mark Osterman is his name -- admits that he is the one who helped George Zimmerman choose the very gun that eventually shot Trayvon dead. Listen to Dr. Phil address that issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: You helped him pick out the gun...
M. OSTERMAN: Yes, sir.
MCGRAW: ... that he ultimately shot and killed Trayvon Martin with?
M. OSTERMAN: Yes, sir.
MCGRAW: Now, that makes me wonder, if you are now bought into a point where you say, "I`ve got to defend the guy now, because I`m in the chain here." Does that mean that -- that you need to defend him here because if not, you`ve got some ownership in this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Criminal defense attorney Michelle Suskauer, this is not an objective person. He`s a friend. He also helped George Zimmerman buy the gun. Does that invalidate any claims that he could make?
MICHELLE SUSKAUER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via phone): Well, what is he going to be able to testify to anyway that`s not complete hearsay?
I want to go back to something that Natalie Jackson just said. And this case may not even get to a jury. She keeps saying, you know, it`s up to a jury, if a jury thinks that this is reasonable. This is going to be a motion to dismiss in front of this new judge now, and she is going to have to make this decision. If she denies it, then it could go in front of a jury.
And it doesn`t matter whether or not they had a fistfight or not. There didn`t even need to be a fight. It does -- there`s nothing in the statute that says there had to be a fight or whether he needed to go to the hospital for his injuries. That`s not the point.
So I think that we`re sort of losing sight of what the law is here and what exactly the defense is going to have to show in terms of using the "Stand Your Ground" defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Presumably you`re referring to the "Stand Your Ground" law, yes.
Natalie Jackson, do you want to respond to that?
JACKSON: The law -- the law says that he must have a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. And it must be a reasonable fear. It can`t be George Zimmerman`s subjective fear. It can`t be someone who`s paranoid that someone looks suspicious and their subjective fear. It has to be a reasonable fear that a reasonable person would have.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And remember, Trayvon Martin had in his hands Skittles and iced tea. More on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FULTON: My son was not committing any crimes. Our son is your son. I want you guys to stand up for justice and stand up for what`s right. This is not about a black and white thing. This is about a right and wrong thing.
Justice for Trayvon!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In a controversial move, Zimmerman`s defense team is now digging into the dead teenager, Trayvon Martin`s, past to find any dirt. His family`s calling it a witch hunt to assassinate his character.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FULTON: The only comment that I have right now is that they`ve killed my son and now they`re trying to kill his reputation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Want to get my panel`s reaction to Zimmerman`s attorneys subpoenaing a huge list of things including Trayvon`s Facebook and Twitter accounts, school records, test scores, disciplinary records, attendance. They`ve already determined that he`s been suspended. He was suspended, I believe, three times.
Starting with Natalie Jackson, you represent Trayvon Martin`s family. What say you to these subpoenas?
JACKSON: Well, I mean, really, from a legal standard, it`s not relevant. This is character evidence, and it`s not relevant.
I -- you know, I agree with Sybrina. This is just an attempt to demonize the victim in this case. Trayvon is the victim. The only character that is relevant -- George Zimmerman did not know Trayvon Martin when he killed him that night. He knew nothing about his character.
I will tell you, this was a 17-year-old kid that was on his way to college. And he was a normal, average 17-year-old. He wasn`t an angel, but he certainly wasn`t a devil. And his character, George Zimmerman knew nothing about. And it`s not relevant to this case. It`s not even admissible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
JACKSON: The only thing I can think is that once again, it`s just feeding into this propaganda machine.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jayne Weintraub, will any of this -- you can subpoena but will any -- like the fact that he was suspended at the time, will that get in?
WEINTRAUB: Well, that`s not what he`s going for. What he`s going for is to be able to demonstrate whether or not Trayvon had a propensity to commit violence.
You know, it`s not about the character evidence. From the best friend, it`s not about George Zimmerman being a good guy. It`s about what happened at that moment.
And what the best friend was saying is he testified George Zimmerman told the police that he said he felt he was going to die. He felt he was passing out, and he passed a polygraph to that -- to those words. Now, what`s important is it`s not admissible in front of a jury, but it will be admissible in the "Stand Your Ground," and the judge will be able to give it whatever weight the judge thinks is appropriate. That`s No. 1.
No. 2, as far as the subpoena of the records, it`s not to show that Trayvon was a bad kid and that he was suspended for smoking pot. It`s to show whether or not he got into ten fights that day. It`s to show the propensity for what he was doing. That`s all.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One second. Let`s give Natalie Jackson the final word here.
JACKSON: I will say that you do not look at one moment in time from one snapshot. This is a totality of circumstances. This is what happened from the time that George Zimmerman got out of his car with the gun to pursue an unarmed teenager.
It has nothing to do with the victim. His records are not relevant. They are not admissible. He had no propensity towards violence. If anyone -- if anyone`s records -- the only records that are relevant to this case are George Zimmerman`s, the perpetrator and the killer of Trayvon Martin.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, ladies, we have to leave it right there. But thank you for a lively debate, and obviously, we stay all over this case.
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