Lively Case Discussion #654 7/9 - 7/11/2007

[Nut44x4]

KLAAS IS BACK!!!!!

AND You're sooooooooooo CUTE!!!!!

I wanted everybody to take your avatar, but they've been creative, huh?  

I LOVE the new look!!!!

Klaas? Now that you're back, have you listened to the podcast? At approx. 14 minutes into the interview, Jossy says something that sort of hard to make out, and we've had varying opinions on it. I'd love your opinion. It's the part about Lorenzo being Joran's 1/2 brother. I seem to hear Jossy say that "he, ( Lorenzo ) has confirmed to many people that he is Joran's 1/2 brother" and then Jossy goes on to comment about how they look alike. I think others hear something different.

I'll check that in a bit.  Still catching up.

NUT - yes, I saw that BS post by MF at RU

OK, but when you get to last nights postings, someone was impersonating me......  

Just listened to that part of Dana's show.  It sounded to me like Jossy said something like "here in Aruba, we have confirmed by many people he is the 1/2 brother of Joran.  He is the same height and has the same facial features (Jossy didn't say features but that's what me meant)"

I thought he said  we have 'heard' by many people...

[Spock]

The reason I bring up Koen is that many people thought he was afraid because he was the one who helped dispose of Natalee's body by using his family's boat. If we're now thinking that Lorenzo used his boat in the disposal, then that might rule out involvement by Koen.

Let's not miss the obvious. Satish said Croes was at C&C that night, Croes left the Tattoo on a small boat and docked close to the Marriot. Croes gave the false HI dropoff alibi, which is an admission he was on or near the beach with the boys that night.

[San]

I know I will get flames for this but I will say it again...

I truly think that they used Lorenzo as "bait"  they knew if we heard of him and were told to leave it alone we would chase like mad after him.... it's why I think decoy...

get us going away from the guilty ones....

I think more along the lines of Freddy, koen, heck even michael dompig...

No flames but I do disagree. I think Lorenzo is chin deep in the drug and porn business in Aruba.

[/b]

I agree with that point... but I don't know or think that he is involved here...

I think that part of the reason for the coverup has to do with illegal drugs/porn and money laundering.  I also believe it's entirely possible the Sloot's may have turned to Lorenzo to hide/dispose of Natalee.

It's not too wild to speculate that those arrested with Lorenzo during the drug raid were the ones who actually did the dirty work. Always thought arresting them for pot plants was flimsy excuse for something bigger.

I cant think of any other reason why PVDS would need to go to a ATM at 4AM or whatever time it was...Why would they involve the Gottenboes when they have someone they fully trust in Lorenzo..He has his own house,own boat and looks to be family. He was most likely up when something bad happened and its the most logical place to go for help. It was a monday and everyone else had work/school the next day except Lorenzo.

I am not so sure those other characters that were busted are involved at all. Lorenzo probably knows alot of shady people that could have helped if he was involved in Natalee's dissapearance.

The Gottenboes were implicated early on.  Just recently we have seen a car conversation where Deepak says Koen and Sander should be arrested also.  Why would Deepak say this.  Those two brothers are also involved in some way.  I don't think it was because they had the boat.  JMO.

[Anna]

Klaasend wrote;

I think that part of the reason for the coverup has to do with illegal drugs/porn and money laundering. I also believe it's entirely possible the Sloot's may have turned to Lorenzo to hide/dispose of Natalee.

My impression though beyond that is that LVR wouldn't be the one to actually do the dirty work. He would likely turn IMO to either a very very wealthy friend, or one of the drug boat runners/ guards/dealers around his place, inside the razor wire.

Jossy says he's still in jail. For marijuana? That seems strange. With his money he could have posted any amount of bail for that. Since when did marijuana make any difference in Aruba when they allow hard drugs like crack to be sold openly on the streets?

I was told Aruba did not have a bail system, Dayhiker.

.

[mrs. red]

well we know a few things....

that the last ppl she was seen with were the 3  - jvds, k2
that she was drugged, probably at the bar
that Anita was able to describe to Beth and Greta her underwear...

[Rob]

The reason I bring up Koen is that many people thought he was afraid because he was the one who helped dispose of Natalee's body by using his family's boat. If we're now thinking that Lorenzo used his boat in the disposal, then that might rule out involvement by Koen.

BT -  the fact that Tim is going to be looking in the ocean for Natalee is a good indication that either Koen or Lorenzo are involved. If she is found, she got out there some how.

I agree that one or the other could be a scape goat for the other. If I were to go on gut instinct I would have to say that Koen is cover for Lorenzo.

Koen sleeps with Mommy. The Gottenbos' got the heck out Malmok as fast as they could... it could be that Koen and Family are afraid of Lorenzo's crew.

I wouldn't put anything past the people trying get Joran and Paulus off the hook. I think they would sell anyone down the river.

Remember Paulus looked Dave right in the eye and said he would do anything to protect his son.

[nonesuche]

so Anna help me understand the problem here, you are stating that Jossy made a mistake acknowledging Lorenzo as rumored to be Paulu's son, that Jossy is incorrect, I just want to make sure I am understanding what is bothering you so much.

[Anna]

KLAAS IS BACK!!!!!

AND You're sooooooooooo CUTE!!!!!

I wanted everybody to take your avatar, but they've been creative, huh?  

I LOVE the new look!!!!

Klaas? Now that you're back, have you listened to the podcast? At approx. 14 minutes into the interview, Jossy says something that sort of hard to make out, and we've had varying opinions on it. I'd love your opinion. It's the part about Lorenzo being Joran's 1/2 brother. I seem to hear Jossy say that "he, ( Lorenzo ) has confirmed to many people that he is Joran's 1/2 brother" and then Jossy goes on to comment about how they look alike. I think others hear something different.

I'll check that in a bit.  Still catching up.

NUT - yes, I saw that BS post by MF at RU

OK, but when you get to last nights postings, someone was impersonating me......  

Just listened to that part of Dana's show.  It sounded to me like Jossy said something like "here in Aruba, we have confirmed by many people he is the 1/2 brother of Joran.  He is the same height and has the same facial features (Jossy didn't say features but that's what me meant)"

That's what I heard, too, Klaas.

[bleachedblack]

I was looking through Dave's book again for info about Koen, and found this very interesting paragraph, at least i find it interesting because I wonder if this man is not someone we speculate about fairly often ,the name starts with an Sh _ _ _ _. Does anyone else know anything about this man?
++++++++++++
Daves book page 185

While at Helen's office, we met with a man named Roland Peterson, a former high-ranking official within the police and immigration departments.He has been retired for several years, and he writes children's books on the island. He said he was aligned to help us out regarding evidence on corruption.

[mrs. red]

The reason I bring up Koen is that many people thought he was afraid because he was the one who helped dispose of Natalee's body by using his family's boat. If we're now thinking that Lorenzo used his boat in the disposal, then that might rule out involvement by Koen.

Let's not miss the obvious. Satish said Croes was at C&C that night, Croes left the Tattoo on a small boat and docked close to the Marriot. Croes gave the false HI dropoff alibi, which is an admission he was on or near the beach with the boys that night.

and Croes was awarded for this lie by getting a job at CnC's where Tito's cousin is the PR manager... and who does Tito work for??? Julia Renfro... who is friends with whom?  one incestous little island...

[klaasend]

well we know a few things....

that the last ppl she was seen with were the 3  - jvds, k2
that she was drugged, probably at the bar
that Anita was able to describe to Beth and Greta her underwear...

Yep!  I'm not in any way taking away Joran's guilt by thinking Lorenzo is involved.  I just think he is involved in either hiding or having someone dispose of her body.  If it was not Koen or Steve Croes, then it was someone arranged by Lorenzo.  

I also read that Lorenzo is friends with Paul Brough/Mr. Pink.  If there was a video made of Natalee it may have funnelled through Lorenzo and Mr. Pink.  Odd that Mr. Pinks websites came down in the beginning of the case.

[Observer]

Lorenzo's name was one of the first to be heard by some Arubans..I think he was brought in several times for questioning and it had nothing to do with some bogus tip about Natalee's clothes being found at his house. I seriously doubt that he was only questioned on june 28th and I think that is proven by the locals who talked about him in june 2005. Theres a reason why there was such a buzz about this guy so early in this case.

[BTgirl]

I was looking through Dave's book again for info about Koen, and found this very interesting paragraph, at least i find it interesting because I wonder if this man is not someone we speculate about fairly often ,the name starts with an Sh _ _ _ _. Does anyone else know anything about this man?
++++++++++++
Daves book page 185

While at Helen's office, we met with a man named Roland Peterson, a former high-ranking official within the police and immigration departments.He has been retired for several years, and he writes children's books on the island. He said he was aligned to help us out regarding evidence on corruption.

Hmmm...very interesting.

Now I expect lala's to show up any second.  

[nonesuche]

well I must have landed on Mars somehow for I just don't see anyone here making Lorenzo the central theme in this, I guess I need to find the same full moon shining down on some others.

honestly Lorenzo has not been the total topic of conversation today or yesterday, in fact today the ongoing discussion around Renfro and MF's posts of this radio show also held center stage.

I do however agree, it's much more pleasant to be here if everyone's opinion is held equal to others, unless I need to be otherwise notified and I feel pretty sure my email inbox will let me know.

night all !

[BTgirl]

well I must have landed on Mars somehow for I just don't see anyone here making Lorenzo the central theme in this, I guess I need to find the same full moon shining down on some others.

honestly Lorenzo has not been the total topic of conversation today or yesterday, in fact today the ongoing discussion around Renfro and MF's posts of this radio show also held center stage.

I do however agree, it's much more pleasant to be here if everyone's opinion is held equal to others, unless I need to be otherwise notified and I feel pretty sure my email inbox will let me know.

night all !

Night, None. Have a good evening.

[San]

The reason I bring up Koen is that many people thought he was afraid because he was the one who helped dispose of Natalee's body by using his family's boat. If we're now thinking that Lorenzo used his boat in the disposal, then that might rule out involvement by Koen.

BT -  the fact that Tim is going to be looking in the ocean for Natalee is a good indication that either Koen or Lorenzo are involved. If she is found, she got out there some how.

I agree that one or the other could be a scape goat for the other. If I were to go on gut instinct I would have to say that Koen is cover for Lorenzo.

Koen sleeps with Mommy. The Gottenbos' got the heck out Malmok as fast as they could... it could be that Koen and Family are afraid of Lorenzo's crew.

I wouldn't put anything past the people trying get Joran and Paulus off the hook. I think they would sell anyone down the river.

Remember Paulus looked Dave right in the eye and said he would do anything to protect his son.

I agree.

[Anna]

so Anna help me understand the problem here, you are stating that Jossy made a mistake acknowledging Lorenzo as rumored to be Paulu's son, that Jossy is incorrect, I just want to make sure I am understanding what is bothering you so much.

I have NO IDEA what you are talking about Nonesuche but the difference in what you posted above and what CBB was saying this morning/last night was that Lorenzo himself CONFIRMED that he was Paulus son.  Now I think Lorenzo might be in a position to actually know but that is not what Jossy said.

The difference is RUMORED versus CONFIRMED.  I don't think Jossy can confirm it much as he might like to do and we would like for him to do so.  He can only confirm that it is a RUMOR and not confirm the paternity of Lorenzo.

NO, I am NOT saying Jossy made a mistake but that it is a RUMOR and Lorenzo himself did NOT CONFIRM it.  That would be very different.  


I just don't happen to think it really matters all that much because I have never seen anything to connect Lorenzo to Natalee Holloway's disappearance other than rumor and speculation.

.

[mrs. red]

I am so confused... I was just stating my theories on who is who and why I think what I think....I thought all the talk of Lorenzo was because we didn't understand if Jossy confirmed or not that he is the half brother of jvds....

I think everyone's opinion is equal or I certainly wouldn't be chaning theories every so often...

[bleachedblack]

The reason I bring up Koen is that many people thought he was afraid because he was the one who helped dispose of Natalee's body by using his family's boat. If we're now thinking that Lorenzo used his boat in the disposal, then that might rule out involvement by Koen.

Let's not miss the obvious. Satish said Croes was at C&C that night, Croes left the Tattoo on a small boat and docked close to the Marriot. Croes gave the false HI dropoff alibi, which is an admission he was on or near the beach with the boys that night.

Steve Croes and the perps are the ones that stated Croes gave the false HI alibi.......they are the only ones. To make that false alibi it only follows suit he would have to be near the HI. (In another lie the perps had him near the beach and apparently witnessing 2 men and a woman arguing? isn't that right?). However, Jan van der Straaten said that Steve Croes was brought in(for 10 days)due to information given by one of the suspects.

[Spock]

The reason I bring up Koen is that many people thought he was afraid because he was the one who helped dispose of Natalee's body by using his family's boat. If we're now thinking that Lorenzo used his boat in the disposal, then that might rule out involvement by Koen.

Let's not miss the obvious. Satish said Croes was at C&C that night, Croes left the Tattoo on a small boat and docked close to the Marriot. Croes gave the false HI dropoff alibi, which is an admission he was on or near the beach with the boys that night.

and Croes was awarded for this lie by getting a job at CnC's where Tito's cousin is the PR manager... and who does Tito work for??? Julia Renfro... who is friends with whom?  one incestous little island...

Guido was off work at 3 am, a 5 min walk to the Fisherman Huts. It all fits together, Joran had his way and made it home. The others came upon an unconsious NH, and had a boat there when things went bad. IMO.