Lively Case Discussion #654 7/9 - 7/11/2007

[Buckeye]

Still way back reading but I did want to dress to welcome back Klaas.  That is Klaas, isn't it??  I did the case "mapping" while you were gone.  

[mrs. red]

Spock,
Are you saying that Joran left here at the beach?  and that the others came upon her?


That I don't believe  - because I don't believe that they were ever at the beach.

[Rob]

I just Google Earthed all the different routes to the beach from Lorenzo's using all the roads to the ocean. There are a variety of different ways and locations along the shore that look like a boat could dock.

I get between 1.01 miles and 1.75 miles depending on how you approach it. I think the cigarette boat is in the south of Saveneta.

I can do some screen shots if you want to see the different routes. But If no one wants them I'll save the effort.

[BTgirl]

Guido was off work at 3 am, a 5 min walk to the Fisherman Huts. It all fits together, Joran had his way and made it home. The others came upon an unconsious NH, and had a boat there when things went bad. IMO.

Spock - does this mean you think that Joran left Natalee alive and someone else killed her?

[Spock]

The reason I bring up Koen is that many people thought he was afraid because he was the one who helped dispose of Natalee's body by using his family's boat. If we're now thinking that Lorenzo used his boat in the disposal, then that might rule out involvement by Koen.

Let's not miss the obvious. Satish said Croes was at C&C that night, Croes left the Tattoo on a small boat and docked close to the Marriot. Croes gave the false HI dropoff alibi, which is an admission he was on or near the beach with the boys that night.

Steve Croes and the perps are the ones that stated Croes gave the false HI alibi.......they are the only ones. To make that false alibi it only follows suit he would have to be near the HI. (In another lie the perps had him near the beach and apparently witnessing 2 men and a woman arguing? isn't that right?). However, Jan van der Straaten said that Steve Croes was brought in(for 10 days)due to information given by one of the suspects.

Croes in an interview stated that he was brought in for giving the false alibi. He said "it was a stupid thing, I gave an alibi to people I dont know" and then he drove off unwilling to say anymore.

[bleachedblack]

Lorenzo's name was one of the first to be heard by some Arubans..I think he was brought in several times for questioning and it had nothing to do with some bogus tip about Natalee's clothes being found at his house. I seriously doubt that he was only questioned on june 28th and I think that is proven by the locals who talked about him in june 2005. Theres a reason why there was such a buzz about this guy so early in this case.

I think in the begining we heard his house was searched twice. Once very thoroughly and the second time less so. If that is the case then I think it likely he was questioned at least twice.

[Anna]

I just Google Earthed all the different routes to the beach from Lorenzo's using all the roads to the ocean. There are a variety of different ways and locations along the shore that look like a boat could dock.

I get between 1.01 miles and 1.75 miles depending on how you approach it. I think the cigarette boat is in the south of Saveneta.

I can do some screen shots if you want to see the different routes. But If no one wants them I'll save the effort.

Rob,

Did Sleuth or somebody do a map with that plus the location of the closed drive in theater marked already?

.

[bleachedblack]

Spockwrote;

Croes in an interview stated that he was brought in for giving the false alibi. He said "it was a stupid thing, I gave an alibi to people I dont know" and then he drove off unwilling to say anymore

IMO Actions speak louder than words, and  that alibi story sounds just toooo unbelievable, I think it is a lie. I think Croes was coming up with a story.
Did Croes get brought in by ALE in handcuffs to tell his alibi story. I just happen to think Van der straaten's story told to the press about one of the 3 perps mentioning his name seems more credible. I guess there is no way to know what is the real truth of the matter.........

[Kat_Gram]

I want to know where Steve Croes was that night. What was his alibi ?
Where Steve's little boat is moored, is it usually in a public place ?
If Natalee was " dumped " in behind the mango grove, how / why would Steve come across her ?
Think it more likely, IMO that Steve was asked to help out. For Money.

[Nut44x4]

I was looking through Dave's book again for info about Koen, and found this very interesting paragraph, at least i find it interesting because I wonder if this man is not someone we speculate about fairly often ,the name starts with an Sh _ _ _ _. Does anyone else know anything about this man?
++++++++++++
Daves book page 185

While at Helen's office, we met with a man named Roland Peterson, a former high-ranking official within the police and immigration departments.He has been retired for several years, and he writes children's books on the island. He said he was aligned to help us out regarding evidence on corruption.

Hmmm...very interesting.

Now I expect lala's to show up any second.  

He is pictured here>>>http://www.kparuba.com/former_kc.html

[Dayhiker]

I am so confused... I was just stating my theories on who is who and why I think what I think....I thought all the talk of Lorenzo was because we didn't understand if Jossy confirmed or not that he is the half brother of jvds....

I think everyone's opinion is equal or I certainly wouldn't be chaning theories every so often...

LOL, I feel the same Mrs. Red. I can accept both the Lorenzo or the Koen theory, just happen to lean towards LVR.  

[Buckeye]

Didn't Spong say something about Guido not watching the door, that wasn't his job??  Maybe Joran left Natalee by Marriott and went to get Guido to help.

[Rob]

I just Google Earthed all the different routes to the beach from Lorenzo's using all the roads to the ocean. There are a variety of different ways and locations along the shore that look like a boat could dock.

I get between 1.01 miles and 1.75 miles depending on how you approach it. I think the cigarette boat is in the south of Saveneta.

I can do some screen shots if you want to see the different routes. But If no one wants them I'll save the effort.

Rob,

Did Sleuth or somebody do a map with that plus the location of the closed drive in theater marked already?

Anna-
I don't know if Sleuth did or didn't. I don't think I have seen them.

If you draw a straight line from Lorenzo's to the ocean going over the areas not even remotely a road, you might get .5 air miles. But actually taking the roads would be at least 1.01 miles as I see it.

.

[Rob]

I just Google Earthed all the different routes to the beach from Lorenzo's using all the roads to the ocean. There are a variety of different ways and locations along the shore that look like a boat could dock.

I get between 1.01 miles and 1.75 miles depending on how you approach it. I think the cigarette boat is in the south of Saveneta.

I can do some screen shots if you want to see the different routes. But If no one wants them I'll save the effort.

Rob,

Did Sleuth or somebody do a map with that plus the location of the closed drive in theater marked already?

Anna-
I don't know if Sleuth did or didn't. I don't think I have seen them.

If you draw a straight line from Lorenzo's to the ocean going over the areas not even remotely a road, you might get .5 air miles. But actually taking the roads would be at least 1.01 miles as I see it.

So Sorry

[BTgirl]

I was looking through Dave's book again for info about Koen, and found this very interesting paragraph, at least i find it interesting because I wonder if this man is not someone we speculate about fairly often ,the name starts with an Sh _ _ _ _. Does anyone else know anything about this man?
++++++++++++
Daves book page 185

While at Helen's office, we met with a man named Roland Peterson, a former high-ranking official within the police and immigration departments.He has been retired for several years, and he writes children's books on the island. He said he was aligned to help us out regarding evidence on corruption.

Hmmm...very interesting.

Now I expect lala's to show up any second.  

He is pictured here>>>http://www.kparuba.com/former_kc.html

TY, Nut

[Observer]

Spockwrote;

Croes in an interview stated that he was brought in for giving the false alibi. He said "it was a stupid thing, I gave an alibi to people I dont know" and then he drove off unwilling to say anymore

IMO Actions speak louder than words, and  that alibi story sounds just toooo unbelievable, I think it is a lie. I think Croes was coming up with a story.
Did Croes get brought in by ALE in handcuffs to tell his alibi story. I just happen to think Van der straaten's story told to the press about one of the 3 perps mentioning his name seems more credible. I guess there is no way to know what is the real truth of the matter.........

I think that is a lie as well..Too much of a coincidence that croes was at C&C that night and a friend of deepaks..I believe Croes and Lorenzo were both questioned on june 16th.

[AZLady]

Didn't Spong say something about Guido not watching the door, that wasn't his job??  Maybe Joran left Natalee by Marriott and went to get Guido to help.

Buckeye, are you forgetting that PVDS lost his claim for compensation because there was evidence that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM?  He either picked them up or dropped them off somewhere.

[mrs. red]

I go back to the thing of steve croes getting fired from the boat and then being rewarded by getting a job at CnC's.....

[Nut44x4]

I just Google Earthed all the different routes to the beach from Lorenzo's using all the roads to the ocean. There are a variety of different ways and locations along the shore that look like a boat could dock.

I get between 1.01 miles and 1.75 miles depending on how you approach it. I think the cigarette boat is in the south of Saveneta.

I can do some screen shots if you want to see the different routes. But If no one wants them I'll save the effort.

Rob,

Did Sleuth or somebody do a map with that plus the location of the closed drive in theater marked already?

.

I remember that...I bet Klaas has it  

[bleachedblack]

From Daves book pages 176-177

While I was there  on that trip, I heard that Dompig was investigating Koen.He supposedly writes Joran every day.  I had read Joran's deposition and knew Koen to be his best friend, and when I was on the island at an earlier time, some teenagers had told me it was Koen's boat that took Natalee out to sea. Art Wood and I drove by Koen's house and saw a boat around the side, and Koen and his father were working on it.The front door was wide open,and we decided to drive by a few times. One time, Koen was walking into the living room, and he saw us going byslowly, so he barrel-rolled and hid behind the couch. I wondered what made him hidelikethat.  We later learned that Koen's mother had told someone that when Freddy was arrested, Koen was so scared that he slept in his parents' bed with them on at least one occassion.