Lively Case Discussion #654 7/9 - 7/11/2007

[AZLady]

I go back to the thing of steve croes getting fired from the boat and then being rewarded by getting a job at CnC's.....

Croes might have done more than supply a false alibi, but I don't think Joran or PVDS brought Croes into this.  He was Deepak's friend, wasn't he?  So many tangled threads here.

[Dayhiker]

Anna-
I don't know if Sleuth did or didn't. I don't think I have seen them.

If you draw a straight line from Lorenzo's to the ocean going over the areas not even remotely a road, you might get .5 air miles. But actually taking the roads would be at least 1.01 miles as I see it.

So Sorry

I did my estimates by counting city blocks, but even if it is a mile that is nothing in the whole scheme of things. Lorenzo is right there by the water, right there where Joran was the next morning.

Something to ponder. Deepak implicates Joran, Freddy, Koen and Sander. Joran implicates Deepak and Satish. Nobody implicates Lorenzo or Croes. Why are Lorenzo and Croes out of the loop?

[BTgirl]

From Daves book pages 176-177

While I was there  on that trip, I heard that Dompig was investigating Koen.He supposedly writes Joran every day.  I had read Joran's deposition and knew Koen to be his best friend, and when I was on the island at an earlier time, some teenagers had told me it was Koen's boat that took Natalee out to sea. Art Wood and I drove by Koen's house and saw a boat around the side, and Koen and his father were working on it.The front door was wide open,and we decided to drive by a few times. One time, Koen was walking into the living room, and he saw us going byslowly, so he barrel-rolled and hid behind the couch. I wondered what made him hidelikethat.  We later learned that Koen's mother had told someone that when Freddy was arrested, Koen was so scared that he slept in his parents' bed with them on at least one occassion.

Thanks, BB. It helps to know the source of that information.

[AZLady]

Since Koen was Joran's best friend, it seems logical that he would be present and participate that night at the gang rape.  I think that might be the extent of Koen's involvement, though, as he seems much too freaked out to help Joran dispose of her body.  I think he'd draw the line there.  However, who knows?  It's possible.

[Buckeye]

Didn't Spong say something about Guido not watching the door, that wasn't his job??  Maybe Joran left Natalee by Marriott and went to get Guido to help.

Buckeye, are you forgetting that PVDS lost his claim for compensation because there was evidence that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM?  He either picked them up or dropped them off somewhere.

I know.  I just keep thinking about Guido charged with heavy battery and them taking things from his house, a year later.  He has to fit in somewhere.

[mrs. red]

there are so many tangled threads.... there is croes, gvc,

who is friends with whom?  

was this all a game... (20 times before) that the kids were just doing what they had seen the Elders do...

[Dayhiker]

Didn't Spong say something about Guido not watching the door, that wasn't his job??  Maybe Joran left Natalee by Marriott and went to get Guido to help.

Buckeye, are you forgetting that PVDS lost his claim for compensation because there was evidence that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM?  He either picked them up or dropped them off somewhere.

Good point. If PVDS is out at 4:00 am and says at some point he is dropping Joran down on the south of the island, that puts him and Joran down there by Lorenzo's house.

[mrs. red]

Didn't Spong say something about Guido not watching the door, that wasn't his job??  Maybe Joran left Natalee by Marriott and went to get Guido to help.

Buckeye, are you forgetting that PVDS lost his claim for compensation because there was evidence that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM?  He either picked them up or dropped them off somewhere.

I know.  I just keep thinking about Guido charged with heavy battery and them taking things from his house, a year later.  He has to fit in somewhere.

OMG>>> I had forgotten that he was charged with heavy battery!

[bleachedblack]

YW BT.

[AZLady]

Anna-
I don't know if Sleuth did or didn't. I don't think I have seen them.

If you draw a straight line from Lorenzo's to the ocean going over the areas not even remotely a road, you might get .5 air miles. But actually taking the roads would be at least 1.01 miles as I see it.

So Sorry

I did my estimates by counting city blocks, but even if it is a mile that is nothing in the whole scheme of things. Lorenzo is right there by the water, right there where Joran was the next morning.

Something to ponder. Deepak implicates Joran, Freddy, Koen and Sander. Joran implicates Deepak and Satish. Nobody implicates Lorenzo or Croes. Why are Lorenzo and Croes out of the loop?

Maybe because Croes is only involved after the fact in that he knows what happened but was not there.  I'm not sure of this and can easily be convinced otherwise.  

Lorenzo is kept out of the loop because everyone is afraid of him.  Perhaps Lorenzo has no scruples or loyalties and will bring down this entire house of cards without considering who falls with it.  I think it's likely that Lorenzo will only keep quiet as long as it benefits him.  When there is no longer any profit to him, or when his own liberty is at stake, Lorenzo will sing, loudly, and bring down everyone involved, no matter his rank or status.

[Dayhiker]

Didn't Spong say something about Guido not watching the door, that wasn't his job??  Maybe Joran left Natalee by Marriott and went to get Guido to help.

Buckeye, are you forgetting that PVDS lost his claim for compensation because there was evidence that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM?  He either picked them up or dropped them off somewhere.

I know.  I just keep thinking about Guido charged with heavy battery and them taking things from his house, a year later.  He has to fit in somewhere.

OMG>>> I had forgotten that he was charged with heavy battery!

But the Dutch experts    say that they can charge you for murder even if you are suspected of shoplifting.

[AZLady]

Didn't Spong say something about Guido not watching the door, that wasn't his job??  Maybe Joran left Natalee by Marriott and went to get Guido to help.

Buckeye, are you forgetting that PVDS lost his claim for compensation because there was evidence that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM?  He either picked them up or dropped them off somewhere.

Good point. If PVDS is out at 4:00 am and says at some point he is dropping Joran down on the south of the island, that puts him and Joran down there by Lorenzo's house.

Yup.  If Natalee was non-responsive, then PVDS and Joran put her in the car and took her to Lorenzo's house.

[BTgirl]

I think so many lies have been told in this case that I wonder if anyone in Aruba even remembers the truth anymore.  

[Dayhiker]

Anna-
I don't know if Sleuth did or didn't. I don't think I have seen them.

If you draw a straight line from Lorenzo's to the ocean going over the areas not even remotely a road, you might get .5 air miles. But actually taking the roads would be at least 1.01 miles as I see it.

So Sorry

I did my estimates by counting city blocks, but even if it is a mile that is nothing in the whole scheme of things. Lorenzo is right there by the water, right there where Joran was the next morning.

Something to ponder. Deepak implicates Joran, Freddy, Koen and Sander. Joran implicates Deepak and Satish. Nobody implicates Lorenzo or Croes. Why are Lorenzo and Croes out of the loop?

Maybe because Croes is only involved after the fact in that he knows what happened but was not there.  I'm not sure of this and can easily be convinced otherwise.  

Lorenzo is kept out of the loop because everyone is afraid of him.  Perhaps Lorenzo has no scruples or loyalties and will bring down this entire house of cards without considering who falls with it.  I think it's likely that Lorenzo will only keep quiet as long as it benefits him.  When there is no longer any profit to him, or when his own liberty is at stake, Lorenzo will sing, loudly, and bring down everyone involved, no matter his rank or status.

If you go by profiles, everything about Lorenzo fits. The lifestyle, the means, and the connections to get the job done far outweigh Koen's abilities.

[mrs. red]

I think so many lies have been told in this case that I wonder if anyone in Aruba even remembers the truth anymore.  

i doubt it.... i don't think truth is a premium there though...

[BTgirl]

If you go by profiles, everything about Lorenzo fits. The lifestyle, the means, and the connections to get the job done far outweigh Koen's abilities.

And Koen looks like a big, mushy crybaby.

[AZLady]

Perhaps Guido was there and participated in the gang rape.  ALE may have thought that Guido was a weak link and if they pressed him, he might tell what he know--act as a witness.  After all, he fled to Holland shortly after Natalee's disappearance.  I think ALE didn't count on Guido's parents' influence and money and the lawyer they hired for him.  ALE got no where with this plan.

[Rob]

Anna-
I don't know if Sleuth did or didn't. I don't think I have seen them.

If you draw a straight line from Lorenzo's to the ocean going over the areas not even remotely a road, you might get .5 air miles. But actually taking the roads would be at least 1.01 miles as I see it.

So Sorry

I did my estimates by counting city blocks, but even if it is a mile that is nothing in the whole scheme of things. Lorenzo is right there by the water, right there where Joran was the next morning.

Something to ponder. Deepak implicates Joran, Freddy, Koen and Sander. Joran implicates Deepak and Satish. Nobody implicates Lorenzo or Croes. Why are Lorenzo and Croes out of the loop?

I used the Google Earth tool .. he can't live in a remote part of the island and live in the town. Even a mile is a good distance when your talking about Aruba.




1.01 miles

[AZSunny]

Since Koen was Joran's best friend, it seems logical that he would be present and participate that night at the gang rape.  I think that might be the extent of Koen's involvement, though, as he seems much too freaked out to help Joran dispose of her body.  I think he'd draw the line there.  However, who knows?  It's possible.

How many "best friends" does Joran have?  I have heard Freddie, Koen, Lorenzo, Guido ..and that is just in the last two days?

[Dayhiker]

I think so many lies have been told in this case that I wonder if anyone in Aruba even remembers the truth anymore.  

There is no truth on Aruba. They all lie. If they knew what the truth was or how to tell it this thing would have been solved the first two days. It is just a hotbed of liars.