Natalee Holloway/Stephany Flores Case Discussion #866 7/23/12 - 12/01/12

[wreck]

I am just tired of the same old repetitive nonsense that drives all the old regular posters away from here. It was better for awhile -- now back to the same old thing.

[Tamikosmom]

I am just tired of the same old repetitive nonsense that drives all the old regular posters away from here. It was better for awhile -- now back to the same old thing.

 

[carpe noctem]

Joran has NEVER had "a big win". The door has been slammed on him every time. That isn't going to change no matter how hard you try to convince us.

wreck

The day that I open an email from Beth Holloway and ... her thoughts reflect yours ... is that day I will reconsider my position ... maybe.  Until then or ... until the truth is revealed ... I contend that Joran van der Sloot has achieved two major wins in the Peruvian Justice System.

1. A charge for the murder beyond brutal of Stephany Flores that did not imply a life sentence ... only a 28 year sentence that translates into 9 years.

2. An overturned immediate extradition ruling which implies that the delay could have the ability to compromise the extortion case ... the extortion beyond cruel of Beth Holloway.

Then there are the "special privileged" that the father and brother of Stephany Flores claim that Joran has received while incarcenated.

You do not agree and ... others may not agree ... and that is OK.

Janet

I doubt you'll be getting one - if you continue to use "Joran's Big Win" in a sentence. Not trying to be mean. Just-a-sayin'

Beth is to Joran... what Raid is to roaches. I don't think she wants to be hearing about much winning coming out of his camp.

Our girl put a hurtin' for certain on him. For very good reason, might I add. Perhaps you meant the Charlie Sheen kind of winning?

[Tamikosmom]

Carpe

The Prosecutor's Charges

Put yourself in Ricardo Flores place.

If Stephany was your daughter who was murdered beyond brutal would you want charges by the prosecutor that implied a life sentence for Joran van der Sloot?  Yes?  No?

Would you consider it "a big win" for Joran and "big loss" for justice if he were to receive a lesser charge ... a lesser charge that implied a 28 year sentence that may translated into 9 years.  Yes? No?

Well ... Joran's attorney considered it a big win.

+++++


Date set for van der Sloot murder trial
November 26, 2011

<snipped>

In September, the victim's family asked a three-judge panel for a more stringent charge akin to aggravated murder, which carries a maximum sentence of life in prison, but the panel of judges ruled on the prosecution's side.

Van der Sloot's defense attorney Luis Jimenez Navarro told CNN'S In Session this was a big win for his client. If Van der Sloot is found guilty and sentenced to the maximum penalty, under Peru's jail reduction credits, he may only serve a third of the time.

<snipped>

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Date-set-for-van-der-Sloot-murder-trial/J1Yl6nagmkmRXf0qcfRMXA.cspx

 

[Tamikosmom]

Carpe

The Delayed Extradition

Put youself in Beth Holloway's place.

If you had been extorted beyond cruel by Joran van der Sloot and ... the Peruvian court complied with the US request and ruled that extradition to the States to face extortion charges would immediately following the outcome of his sentence appeal ... would you be rejoicing.  Yes? No?

Joran then appeals the extradition ruling and the new ruling is that the extradiction to the States to face extortion charges would not happen until he completes his Peruvian sentence.  Would you consider the new ruling "a big win" for Joran and "a big potential loss" for justice.  Yes?  No?

+++++++


Peru Gives Green Light For Joran Van Der Sloot To Be Extradited To The U.S.
Apr 24, 2012

<snipped>
 
Peru has approved the extradition of convicted killer Joran van der Sloot to the U.S. to stand trial for extortion and wire fraud in connection with the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway.
 
According to court documents obtained by Joran's attorney Maximo Altez, a Peruvian judge has approved a U.S. request for provisional detention, marking the first step in the extraction process and meaning he could land on American soil within three months, reported CNN.com.
 
Once his appeal for that sentence is completed in the next month, "He will go to trial in the United States. Once he is sentenced, he will return to Peru to finish serving his 28 years, and then go back to the States to serve whatever sentence he gets there,” explained Altez, where U.S. authorities want to try the Dutchman on charges of extortion and wire fraud in the Holloway case.

<snipped>
 
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/04/joran-van-der-sloot-extradited-us-peru

[texasmom]

Justice for Natalee,
and Stephany!

 ::justice2NJ::

[Tamikosmom]

 

[jamcakes]

Janet,

I have to agree with Carpe on the reversion to past posts with the JORAN BIG WIN.

Joran lost and got 28 years (count them) the almost max sentence IN PERU for what he did to Stephany.  He wasn't tried in the US where you get life,life w.o parole or capital punishment. He was tried in PERU and got close to their max sentence. Mr Flores and Beth were both satisied. Who are you NOT to be satisfied? Where they your daughters?

The extradition has not been settled. My understanding is that it is still being ruled on.

I tried to find something positive after your posts and settled on wiping off joran's smirks.

Only that post saved you. You could easily be identified as a Joran sympathizer with your usual regurgitation of old,old,old posts. You don't have to post everyday.  Some days there is nothing to say.  How many people respond to those old recycled posts anyways?

I'm not trying to be mean, but it does get old and turns MANY MANY MANY readers/posters off.  Time  to change or we'll start/keep scrollin, scrollin, scrollin.......

One last word, SM seems like RU with posts like JORAN WINS.  Please,we are not RU.  PROUD TO BE SCARED MONKEYS!!!!!!!

[jamcakes]

Beth is to Joran... what Raid is to roaches.

[/quote]

I love your wit!

[jamcakes]

Moderator, will you fix my last post and put Carpes quote on the roaches/Raid in the quote box.  Then can you delete this post asking or yourhelp.  Thanks!

[texasmom]

Joran has NEVER had "a big win". The door has been slammed on him every time. That isn't going to change no matter how hard you try to convince us.

You're right wreck.  The door slammed on Joran more than two years ago, when he was arrested for the savage murder of a young beautiful girl with her whole life in front of her.  The days of him globe trotting and flaunting what he got away with in Aruba are over.  Regardless how long it takes the whole 28 or a portion of it; when Peru is through with him Alabama is waiting.  Joran's life as he knew it and wasted it is OVER.

Defense attorneys are known for placing their own spin on things, whether that spin is truthful or NOT.

Words that were originally spoken only by the defense attorney of Joran, and would more than likely already be forgotten by now; have ONLY been posted repeatedly here of all places.  In a forum that has always been dedicated to Justice for Natalee and in 2010 included Stephany and their families.  Google those words if you don't believe me!  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that those words alone could only be perceived as offensive in this forum.  Along with the many repeated, bumped by the same poster, and then posted again and again posts dwelling on the bright side of things for a savage murderer.  They don't belong here!  Joran may have many (we've all seen the lunatics) cheerleaders in this world, but this isn't the place for it. 

Quoting the entire text of Loving Natalee, or posting heart wrenching pictures with crying monkeys doesn't change it, it is what it is.  And it doesn't belong here, in my opinion.

Why would someone who supposedly supports Natalee, Stephany, and their families continually and intentionally cause discord here?

 

[texasmom]

Continued - PRE-TRIAL CONFERENCE   14-NOV-2012
3rd District Court   unassigned

Continued - PRE-TRIAL CONFERENCE   21-NOV-2012
3rd District Court   unassigned

I wonder if they keep kicking that can down the road due to busyness of the court system in RI?

PRE-TRIAL CONFERENCE   21-NOV-2012
3rd District Court   unassigned
TRIAL   09-JAN-2013
3rd District Court   HOULIHAN, JUDGE

[Tamikosmom]

If the murder beyond brutal of Stephany Flores did not justify a charge filed by the Peruvian prosecutor that carries a life sentence for Joran van der Sloot ...  if the murder beyond brutal of Stephany Flores did not justify a panel of Peruvian judges to rule against the prosecutor's charge ... in Peru what does justify a charge that carry a life sentence?

Then there is Joran's sentence appeal ... an appeal that meets "all the requirements" for a review.

Did the Peruvian prosecutor and the panel of judges read Joran's confession.  I mean really read Joran's confession and imagined their daughter/sister/grandaughter in Stephany Flores' place on the night of May 30, 2010?

I am outraged that how it stands now that according to Peruvian justice Joran could be released in nine years!!  The possibility that the appeals court could rule that Joran is worthy of a lighter sentence is a slap in the face of Lady Justice.  The scales are far from balanced.

Janet


Joran van der Sloot - In His Own Words

Confession: Joran van der Sloot describes killing Stephany Flores
Published: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 2:51 PM
Updated: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 4:11 PM

<snipped>

Asked for a detailed description of the killing:

"She was on the bed when I hit her hard with my right elbow and I think her head went back and hit the wall, then she begins to bleed, immediately I get on top of her and with both hands I begin to strangle her, keeping her that way for a minute. After that, I throw her to the floor but she keeps breathing. At that moment I take off my shirt and put it on her face, pressing on it. I don't remember for how long but she stops breathing, in this way I think I caused her death."

<snipped>

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/confession_joran_van_der_sloot.html


Judges are One with the Prosecutor

Date set for van der Sloot murder trial
November 26, 2011

<snipped>

In September, the victim's family asked a three-judge panel for a more stringent charge akin to aggravated murder, which carries a maximum sentence of life in prison, but the panel of judges ruled on the prosecution's side.

Van der Sloot's defense attorney Luis Jimenez Navarro told CNN'S In Session this was a big win for his client. If Van der Sloot is found guilty and sentenced to the maximum penalty, under Peru's jail reduction credits, he may only serve a third of the time.

<snipped>

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Date-set-for-van-der-Sloot-murder-trial/J1Yl6nagmkmRXf0qcfRMXA.cspx


Requirements Met

Joran Reportedly Getting Married Seeks Overturn of Prison Sentence
July 19, 2012

Two weeks ago, the Third Penal Court of Lima accepted the paperwork submitted by Van der Sloot’s defense attorney, Maximo Altez, in which he requests that the sentence be annulled. The court clerk stated that he meets the requirements the law establishes for its respective review, and this recourse has been handed over to Peru’s Supreme Court for evaluation.

<snipped>
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/19/joran-van-der-sloot-reportedly-getting-married-seeks-overturn-of-prison-sentence.html

s.t.

[Magnolia]

I think in Peru a person has to commit treason to get a life sentence.

Twenty eight years is a whole lot more than Joran would have gotten in
Aruba.   I think he would have only gotten 3-5 years there.

He is NOT a winner in any way.

I think a lot of the repeated posting is just to aggrivate the rest of us
until we all go away and there is only a party of one on this thread.
Course, that is just my opinion!

[klaasend]

I'm pretty sure that Beth appreciates everyone's point of view and input into the case including Janet's.

It wouldn't be fair to Natalee for me to censor the forum to only those of us that feel secure that Joran won't get out and justice will be served.  We could be wrong and Janet's fears could to be true.

Like them or not, Janet's posts do in the very least help keep Natalee's name current in google searches.   

Please if you don't like someones posts, please just scroll on past.  I really don't want fighting in Natalee's thread but I don't want to censor it either.

TIA!

[Tamikosmom]

[Northern Rose]

Asked to consider criminal Yanamayo closure and Challapalca
23 de Noviembre de 2012 17:49



Expressing concern over the conditions of detention in these centers, located in remote and high altitude, the UN Committee against Torture called today the Peruvian government "consider" closing prisons and Yanamayo Challapalca.

Concluding his last session of the year, the committee, composed of independent experts in human rights, issued its final conclusions on the countries that submitted their reports on how they implement the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, inhuman and Degrading.

In his paper on Peru, UN body says disturbing the conditions of prisons, where overcrowding rate is 114 percent, in infrastructure, in addition, run-down, with appalling sanitation and food problems and in certain cases, with low temperatures.

According to the committee's report, there are only 54 doctors to serve the entire Peruvian prison population

 ::snipping2::

http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/index.php/mundo/america/55359-onu-pide-evaluar-cierre-de-penales-yanamayo-y-challapalca

[Northern Rose]

Peruvian State rejects possible closure of criminal and Yanamayo Challapalca
Sabado, 24 de noviembre de 2012 | 7:16 pm

Peru stated its position not to dispense both prisons, which house inmates and highly dangerous.
Following the observations made by the Commission of the United Nations Convention against Torture (CAT) to penalties and Yanamayo Challapalca, the Peruvian state expressed their disagreement with the preliminary report submitted by that working group, which raises the need to evaluate the closure of both prisons.

 ::snipping2::

Regarding criminal Challapalca said that although is 4500 meters above sea level, it is not a place uninhabitable or so inhospitable that can not be an adequate living without health risks. Besides, stressed-it is a maximum security prison where inmates are high social danger, so you can not ignore that penitentiary.

On the other hand, clarified that there is a current policy of promoting Peruvian sterilizations, and he expressed his disagreement with the inclusion of this item in the preliminary report of the CAT.

http://www.larepublica.pe/24-11-2012/estado-peruano-rechaza-posible-cierre-de-penales-de-challapalca-y-yanamayo

[Anna]

Beth said she would be satisfied to see Joran in a "Midnight Express" style prison and lo and behold, he is in one that is rated worse on a global scale.  She never said it had to be a life sentence or anything about that.  A life sentence is much longer for a very young person than it is for someone older.  Twenty-eight years is the max given in Peru.

And now they have had a serious riot.  Joran probably was absolutely terrified.  I agree that in that chaos it would be so easy to off him and possibly reap rewards from the families of his victims.

This prison doesn't have heat and is in a semi-arid region at a very high altitude.  That alone would cause a great deal of misery to a little spoiled island boy.  Rats, bad sanitation, the stench and noise alone must be horrible for him.

And now it seems the Peruvian government will NOT close this prison even though it is considered some form of inhumane treatment to be housed there.

As for the Human Rights Court, any ruling they might make is not binding as they have no authority within a country unless that country agrees to go along with their ruling which is highly unlikely.  Sort of like then the UN orders the U.S. or Israel to do something and we ignore them, lol.  Sounds impressive but means nothing.

I've made many trips to that part of the world, Bolivia not Peru but it is a very similar country, both Andean with similar climate and so forth.  It can be very harsh.  Just looking out the window at the barrenness of it all must really depress Joran.

He has to be one unhappy camper these days.

[grace-land]

The living conditions at Challapalca prison must be terrible.  I wonder how Joran is doing at Piedras Gordas prison.  ::boxingjoran::

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2012-11-14-desestiman-anular-condena-de-28-anos-a-holandes-joran-van-der-sloot-noticia_540292.html

Google translation

Dismissed void sentence of 28 years Dutchman Joran Van der Sloot
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 | 3:09 pm

Van der Sloot is serving his sentence in the prison of Pideras BBW I Ancon after being found guilty of the crimes of homicide and simple theft.