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Author Topic: Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newton, CT - Multiple Deaths  (Read 150626 times)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #360 on: December 27, 2012, 12:22:20 AM »

Pedophilia (classified as a mental disorder) develops in childhood and many pedophiles are attracted to professions that allow them exposure to children. If the suggestion is that because immorality occurs in church settings, the unabashed teaching of morality and belief in a purposeful God in school, is proven ineffective, then I disagree. If anything, the reinforcement of definition of right and wrong, recognition of how valuable we are as God's children, and closeness encouraged in family relationships, might very well be just what a child needs to internalize to be able to tell someone that an adult, in church or elsewhere, was being inappropriate with them.

I totally disagree with pedophilia being classified as a mental disorder.  That does nothing but give pedos an excuse for their behavior.  It is a conscience choice made to victimize those who can't fight back.

Considering the majority of adults are not sexually attracted to children ... I tend to agree that Pedophilia is a mental disorder that one is born with or develops in his/her formative year but ... on the other hand ... that does not gives the pedophile the right to CHOOSE to act on his sick desires.

We all have varying degrees of desires and temptations that we CHOOSE not to act on because we KNOW it is illegal and/or immoral.

One does not have to have a spiritual foundation to realize that sexually violating a child is s wrong  ... wrong ... wrong ... on so many levels.

Janet
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #361 on: December 27, 2012, 02:14:57 AM »

As a reminder - Pedophilia, has nothing to do with this case.  Please try and keep on topic.

Apologies to Klaas and Muffy. I have buttons (pedophilia isn't one of them, but faith is) and I hereby promise to keep my knee-jerk reactions off this thread. I'm sorry.

On that note......

I wish that someone would ask the students, their parents, and teachers that survived the shootings, what would make them feel safer when they returned to school. I think their answers would be insightful.
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #362 on: December 27, 2012, 08:39:06 AM »

http://fox8.com/2012/12/26/sacred-soil-sandy-hook-donations-turned-into-memorial/
Sacred Soil: Sandy Hook Donations Turned Into Memorial
December 26, 2012

NEWTOWN, Connecticut– There has been an overwhelming show of support to the victims of the Sandy Hook Elementary school shooting, over the past two weeks.
Thousands have donated items and money in honor of the victims.
Now, it’s been announced that those flowers, letters, prayers, signs, photos, teddy bears and more, will be gathered and processed into soil that will serve in the foundation of a future permanent memorial to honor the 20 children and 6 adults.
 ::snipping2::
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #363 on: December 27, 2012, 09:12:34 AM »

Pedophilia (classified as a mental disorder) develops in childhood and many pedophiles are attracted to professions that allow them exposure to children. If the suggestion is that because immorality occurs in church settings, the unabashed teaching of morality and belief in a purposeful God in school, is proven ineffective, then I disagree. If anything, the reinforcement of definition of right and wrong, recognition of how valuable we are as God's children, and closeness encouraged in family relationships, might very well be just what a child needs to internalize to be able to tell someone that an adult, in church or elsewhere, was being inappropriate with them.

I totally disagree with pedophilia being classified as a mental disorder.  That does nothing but give pedos an excuse for their behavior.  It is a conscience choice made to victimize those who can't fight back.

When does society look at the crime and not the excuses?  When do excuses like 'mental illness' fall by the wayside in favor of treating all criminals the same? 

It doesn't make sense to me that folks that can plan and execute a criminal act (a killing spree, a grocery robbery), are you really incapable of standing trial?  Insane? 

Should it matter if someone is diagnosed with a mental illness?  Lives a good life until one horrific moment?  As compared to someone who has a lifetime of mental illness issues (homelessness, catatonic, functions like a two year old) that didn't involve harming others? 

Perhaps there would be fewer horrific crimes if mental illness wasn't an escape from prison?  Horrific crimes were not sensationalized by the media?

In the olden days, horrific events/crimes became part of family history, few were part of the national media.  Today, the family history event has become a national media story making lots of money for big business.

jmho

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MuffyBee
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« Reply #364 on: December 27, 2012, 11:49:02 AM »

http://www.courant.com/community/glastonbury/hc-glastonbury-tcby-fundraiser-1227-20121227,0,6726884.story
TCBY Stores In Glastonbury, Simsbury Donating Portion Of Sales To Sandy Hook School Support Fund
December 27, 2012

GLASTONBURY ——
The owners of a yogurt franchise are raising money to support families impacted by the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy and challenging local businesses to do the same.

Lisa and Mark Arnold, a Simsbury couple who own TCBY yogurt stores in Glastonbury and Simsbury, are donating 10 percent of their sales now through Jan. 26 to the Sandy Hook School Support Fund. The fund was created by the United Way of Western Connecticut to help Newtown families impacted by the tragic events of Dec. 14 when 20 students and six educators were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
 ::snipping2::
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #365 on: December 27, 2012, 11:51:46 AM »

http://www.9news.com/news/article/307012/188/26ActsofKindness-continuing-after-tragic-shooting
#26ActsofKindness continuing after tragic shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School
December 27, 2012

Video at Link
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #366 on: December 27, 2012, 11:54:05 AM »

Hi WhiskeyGirl! The mental illness piece of the Sandy Hook story is a hard one and the reason why the best attempts to find real answers to avoid other tragedies almost have to include discussions of mental health services and policies. I agree with you, btw, about pedophilia because even though the attraction to children may be due to someone's own emotional development getting stuck in childhood, there is clearly an adult choice to act on those attractions. The Sandy Hook shooter seems to have had different problems that may have muddled his reality, and therefore the question of his families' responsibility to protect others from his delusions comes into play.

I'm not aware that all the facts are out about the shooter's illness, or about what his Mother was doing in response. My understanding is that the shooter was prescribed drugs commonly used to treat schizophrenia. Most people with schizophrenia are not violent, but that disease includes auditory and visual hallucinations and when those who are violent act on the impulse, they commonly kill their caretakers. I don't know if that's even the right diagnosis for the shooter, but if it is, then he was the right age for onset in males and until it fully manifested itself the first time, even mental health professionals wouldn't be able to predict what to expect. As I said, most people with schizophrenia (and there are degrees of schizophrenia) aren't violent, but those who are, are very dangerous. Obviously, there were signs of worrying and worsening behavior. My understanding is that his Mother was making attempts to force treatment, and there are a LOT of laws that would make that a very difficult path, if not impossible.

It won't bring the children back to their families, but I wish we knew more. Right now, the role of gun policies is in the forefront because there are facts to deal with. IMO, as much disagreement as that issue stirs, it's not the whole answer to why so many children and adults lost their lives that horrible day. What an unfathomable tragedy... how could this happen to innocent children. How could we, as a society, not have been able to protect them? I want the answers to be clear and simple so we can fix it.... today! I'm not sure that's going to be possible.

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hellokitty
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« Reply #367 on: December 27, 2012, 01:08:19 PM »

The "uncle" who said Lanza was on drugs --Fanapt-- for schizophrenia has been outed as an imposter.  He is not an uncle.  I also read he has been arrested.

We do not know at this point if he was on any medications

Insanity is a hard plea to get.  You cannot know the difference between right and wrong.

Assembling the weapons and getting body armor does not indicate a mind that does not know the difference between right and wrong.  It is planning.

He probably had his own rules of right and wrong.  Many people do, such as Bernie Madoff.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #368 on: December 27, 2012, 01:08:52 PM »

Hi WhiskeyGirl! The mental illness piece of the Sandy Hook story is a hard one and the reason why the best attempts to find real answers to avoid other tragedies almost have to include discussions of mental health services and policies. I agree with you, btw, about pedophilia because even though the attraction to children may be due to someone's own emotional development getting stuck in childhood, there is clearly an adult choice to act on those attractions. The Sandy Hook shooter seems to have had different problems that may have muddled his reality, and therefore the question of his families' responsibility to protect others from his delusions comes into play.

I'm not aware that all the facts are out about the shooter's illness, or about what his Mother was doing in response. My understanding is that the shooter was prescribed drugs commonly used to treat schizophrenia. Most people with schizophrenia are not violent, but that disease includes auditory and visual hallucinations and when those who are violent act on the impulse, they commonly kill their caretakers. I don't know if that's even the right diagnosis for the shooter, but if it is, then he was the right age for onset in males and until it fully manifested itself the first time, even mental health professionals wouldn't be able to predict what to expect. As I said, most people with schizophrenia (and there are degrees of schizophrenia) aren't violent, but those who are, are very dangerous. Obviously, there were signs of worrying and worsening behavior. My understanding is that his Mother was making attempts to force treatment, and there are a LOT of laws that would make that a very difficult path, if not impossible.

It won't bring the children back to their families, but I wish we knew more. Right now, the role of gun policies is in the forefront because there are facts to deal with. IMO, as much disagreement as that issue stirs, it's not the whole answer to why so many children and adults lost their lives that horrible day. What an unfathomable tragedy... how could this happen to innocent children. How could we, as a society, not have been able to protect them? I want the answers to be clear and simple so we can fix it.... today! I'm not sure that's going to be possible.

A one size fits all solution would be great.

I know people with various mental problems that receive and accept treatment, understand they have a problem, and they do not kill others, their families, or themselves.  They function like everyone else and it would be hard to pick them out of the crowd unless they told you about their problem.

There seems to be an ever increasing number of diagnoses/diseases added to the 'mental illness' category every year.  I imagine most of the people affected do not kill anyone.

What this tragedy reminds me of is the increasing violence on buses.  Doesn't matter if it's a public bus or a school bus.  Getting on a school bus is dangerous when a horrific event is in the news too.  Everyone seems to blame the bus driver, thinking the bus driver can waive a wand and stop the horror, while keeping to a tight schedule too. 

I am inclined to believe these horrors are due to individuals that choose to act out.  For some reason, they all seem to be labeled as 'mentally ill', not sure if any such individual has ever been considered sane.  Is there a difference between an evil person and a person with mental illness?  Can someone be evil and not mentally ill?

In the world of work today there are a number of security systems in place.  From memory, some places ask people to identify themselves before being buzzed in.  Sometimes folks are on a 'no entry' list.

After gaining access, folks may need security access (badge or other) to gain entrance to areas outside the main entrance or reception area.  Badges can be customized to keep people in limited areas, preventing access to large areas.

The private sector has been dealing with problem people for decades.  There is always someone that doesn't like you, your company, your employees, etc.  Even the best security can be compromised by a friendly employee who fails to see or acknowledge a threat and opens the door to a smiling face.

I keep reading about diagnosis of mental illness at younger and younger ages. 

Quote
Now, the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders will add new categories of mental illness with very high prevalence rates in the general population. A new diagnosis here, a new diagnosis there, and pretty soon you have millions of new patients and billions of dollars in expenditure.

Seemingly small DSM-5 changes will make a big difference. Normal grief will become “major depressive disorder,” so that pills and medical rituals will be applied to a person’s natural emotional reaction to the loss of a loved one. Excessive eating a dozen times in three months will become not mere gluttony but “binge eating disorder.” Forgetfulness in old age will be “minor neurocognitive disorder,” a label encompassing an enormous new patient population (only some of whom are at real risk of dementia) and incurring huge costs of unnecessary brain imaging when there is no effective treatment.

At the other end of the age continuum, temper tantrums will be diagnosed as “disruptive mood dysregulation disorder.”

And these are but a few of the many changes in the DSM-5 that will create millions of new “patients,” many of whom would do better without expensive, potentially harmful treatments.

source - http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20121226/OPINION16/312260004/Psychiatry-s-revised-bible-ignores-fiscal-responsibility

I was looking for older articles about diagnosing mental illness in babies, things like autism, that include a disability check for life.  

Forced treatment - Did he become violent because he was being threatened with treatment?  Was he sheltered his whole life from his illness?  The thing that made him different from others?  His fellow students?

How do you separate out the 'violent' mentally ill before their first (and perhaps last) act of violence?
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Blonde
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« Reply #369 on: December 27, 2012, 02:13:48 PM »


School Shooter's DNA to Be Studied
ABC NewsBy SHUSHANNAH WALSHE | ABC News – 21 hours ago

    School Shooter's DNA to Be Studied (ABC News)

    ABC News - School Shooter's DNA to Be Studied (ABC News)




Geneticists have been asked to study the DNA of Adam Lanza, the Connecticut man whose shooting rampage killed 27 people, including an entire first grade class.

The study, which experts believe may be the first of its kind, is expected to be looking for abnormalities or mutations in Lanza's DNA.

Connecticut Medical Examiner H. Wayne Carver has reached out to University of Connecticut's geneticists to conduct the study.

University of Connecticut spokesperson Tom Green says Carver "has asked for help from our department of genetics" and they are "willing to give any assistance they can."

Green said he could not provide details on the project, but said it has not begun and they are "standing by waiting to assist in any way we can."

Lanza, 20, carried out the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., just days before Christmas. His motives for the slaughter remain a mystery.
 ::snipping2::

http://gma.yahoo.com/school-shooters-dna-studied-214930321--abc-news-topstories.html



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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #370 on: December 27, 2012, 02:28:01 PM »

Beat me to it, Blonde! I was just going to post that article which is now 21 hours old.

From the same article:

 ::snipping2::

They might look for mutations that might be associated with mental illnesses and ones that might also increase the risk for violence," said Beaudet, who is also the chairman of Baylor College of Medicine's department of molecular and human genetics.

Beaudet believes geneticists should be doing this type of research because there are "some mutations that are known to be associated with at least aggressive behavior if not violent behavior."

"I don't think any one of these mutations would explain all of (the mass shooters), but some of them would have mutations that might be causing both schizophrenia and related schizophrenia violent behavior," Beaudet said. "I think we could learn more about it and we should learn more about it."

 ::snipping2::

http://gma.yahoo.com/school-shooters-dna-studied-214930321--abc-news-topstories.html
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KittyMom
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« Reply #371 on: December 27, 2012, 02:41:16 PM »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/adam-lanza-motive_n_2332641.html

Adam Lanza Motive: Medical Examiner Wants To Probe Sandy Hook Shooter's Genetics

Posted: 12/19/2012 4:26 pm EST  |  Updated: 12/19/2012 4:26 pm EST

Connecticut's chief medical examiner said he hopes Adam Lanza's biology will help explain why the Sandy Hook shooter went on a deadly rampage.

The Hartford Courant reports that Dr. H. Wayne Carver has asked a geneticist at the University of Connecticut to join in his investigation of the killings.

"I'm exploring with the department of genetics what might be possible, if anything is possible," Carver told the paper on Tuesday. "Is there any identifiable disease associated with this behavior?"

Carver is also awaiting toxicology testing results for the gunman.

 ::snipping2::

bumping this

I would hope that this isn't the first of such cases where a thorough investigation of the killer's makeup has been done.  If science can identify markers for this behavior, maybe then we can find real cures or at least identify potential individuals.
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Blonde
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« Reply #372 on: December 27, 2012, 02:57:55 PM »

Why wasn't the gun case locked and keys hidden, Just asking
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KittyMom
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« Reply #373 on: December 27, 2012, 02:59:28 PM »

Why wasn't the gun case locked and keys hidden, Just asking

Do we know that they weren't?
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hellokitty
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« Reply #374 on: December 27, 2012, 03:35:17 PM »

Genes are not the total issue.  For instance, if you have genes that make it so that you will become an alcoholic, if you never drink, you will not become one.

There is some brain scientist who has the brain scan of people who are psychopaths. He has a big family history of psychopaths.

He says that because he did not have the family history of child abuse and violence, he did not develop into a psychopath. Maybe someone knows this man's name as I do not recall it right now

Autism is not a mental illness.  It is a difference in development.  Bill Gates feels he has autism.  It is felt Einstein had autism. 

Lanza's brother said that the shooter had a personality disorder.  I feel that the brother is quite bright and knows what he is talking about.

I am not sure a personality disorder can be fixed.  All I know of is borderline personality disorder and psychopath or some refer to it as sociopath
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grace-land
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« Reply #375 on: December 27, 2012, 07:06:50 PM »

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Investigators-Delve-Into-School-Shooters-Life-184966261.html

Investigators Delve Into School Shooter's Life
Thursday, Dec 27, 2012  |  Updated 3:19 PM EST

Authorities investigating the school shooting in Newtown said they're looking into all aspects of the shooter's life.

State police spokesman Lt. J. Paul Vance said on Thursday that investigators are "looking at everything to do with the shooter, his history, medical, psychological, education, family history, everything and anything relative to him we're examining."

 ::snipping2::
Vance said investigators are making progress. He could not provide a timeframe for when the investigation might conclude.

He said children would only be interviewed if necessary.

Police have yet to offer a possible motive for Lanza's rampage.
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hellokitty
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« Reply #376 on: December 27, 2012, 07:14:30 PM »

How despicable is this

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/FBI-Arrests-Woman-Accused-of-Exploiting-Newtown-Shooting-184953981.html
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grace-land
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« Reply #377 on: December 27, 2012, 07:24:10 PM »


Terrible.  And they think that they can get away with it... 
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #378 on: December 27, 2012, 07:25:29 PM »



  
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« Reply #379 on: December 27, 2012, 07:42:33 PM »

Why wasn't the gun case locked and keys hidden, Just asking
The only time I put a lock on mine is when their are children in the house. It's always leaning in a corner, loaded. If something happened where I want it I want it NOW.
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