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Author Topic: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial  (Read 1374983 times)
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« Reply #100 on: January 28, 2013, 05:19:04 PM »

I'm watching the trial! I wonder if she used kc as a template to lie and attempt to convince! I just hope the jury doesn't fall for it

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« Reply #101 on: January 28, 2013, 06:53:37 PM »
Jodi Arias trial: Defense set in gruesome Ariz. boyfriend slaying
January 28, 2013


  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
Monkey Junky
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« Reply #102 on: January 28, 2013, 08:13:15 PM »

Wow the witness on the stand today is a kook

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« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2013, 12:28:58 PM »

Potential Witness in Jodi Arias Trial Promises to Reveal Secret

Aired January 28, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: A stunning revelation on the eve of the defense case in the Jodi Arias trial.

In a hearing, we were just told that one of the men on the defense witness list who knew both Travis and Jodi has information that could blow this case wide open.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, is there a bombshell just around the corner in the Jodi Arias case? Word that a defense witness has big information that could free Jodi or hurt her. What secrets could this acquaintance of Jodi and Travis reveal on the stand?

Plus, we`re going deep inside Jodi`s circle of friends. I`ll talk to a woman who worked closely with Jodi. What Jodi told her about Travis.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Behind the smiles in these photographs, there is a whole `nother reality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Information that will hurt her or free her.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: I would never stab him. If I -- if I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was made it as humane as possible.

WILLMOTT: Because in reality, Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.

ARIAS: And so I`m as good as done.

WILLMOTT: While he continued this facade of being a good and virginal Mormon man, he was dealing with his own sexual issues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got information that will either hurt her or help her, and it just depends.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, does a surprise defense witness hold the secret key to Jodi Arias`s freedom?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.

The beautiful 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed her ex- boyfriend 29 times, slit Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear, cutting him all the way down to the spine, and that she shot him in the face. Just look at these autopsy photos. But Jodi claims it was all in self-defense.

Tonight, as the defense gets ready to begin their case tomorrow morning, we`ve been told that one man on the defense witness list plans to reveal a huge secret, one that could hurt Jodi, or it could set her free. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said something about "I have information that will hurt her or free her."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Free her? He`s talking about this man, Gus Searcy, who knew both victim Travis Alexander and defendant Jodi Arias. What is this mysterious piece of information that this man Gus reportedly has? And if he reveals it, this secret in front of the jury, will it blow this will case wide open?

Who is Gus Searcy? Look at him performing in a video from his Web site.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Isn`t that "Greensleeves"?

Plus, I`ll talk to a woman who knew and worked with Jodi before Travis` death. Were there warning signs? What did Jodi tell her about Travis?

And I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. You were in court when this bombshell was dropped. Tell us about it.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, SENIOR HLN PRODUCER: Jane, what was supposed to be a pretty boring day in court, it was the attorneys going over some motions -- remember, the jury wasn`t even in court today -- turned into fireworks when this character, this witness, possible witness, took the stand, whose name is Gus Searcy.

And he claimed that he has some piece of information that could either hurt Jodi`s case, or it could set her free and her complete case could be resolved.

So nobody knows what that piece of information is, but we do know that he is on the witness list for the defense. And he could possibly be called tomorrow, and we don`t know what he`s going to say. But according to him, he has some bombshell he`s going to drop that is going to change this case around.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s analyze it. This new detail could turn the case on its head.

Now, again, listen to the cryptic way Gus`s colleague explained it. This is how we heard it in court. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I said, "Come on, Gus, she admitted that she killed him in cold blood. What are you talking about you got information where you can free -- free her?"

And he goes, "Well, not free her, but you know what I mean. I`ve got information that will either hurt her or help her, and it just depends."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the evidence has shown that Jodi and Travis had sex and took naked photos of each other shortly before Jodi killed him.

Given that the defense has made a point of claiming Travis sexually degraded Jodi, given that their strategy is to weave self-defense into the sexual story line, I think it`s fair to ask whether this secret could be of a sexual nature.

And now we`re hearing this acquaintance of both of them, the victim and the defendant, has information that could free her.

I want to go straight out to my very special guest, Dr. David Hughes.

Doctor, thank you so much for joining us and shedding light on Jodi`s relationship with this Gus Searcy. He is on the defense witness list. I know you introduced Jodi Arias to Travis Alexander. You know something about this Gus character. What can you tell us about the last time that Jodi saw Gus, this gentleman, I should say, and what the secret might be about?

DR. DAVID HUGHES, INTRODUCED JODI TO TRAVIS: I don`t know too much about their last meeting. I just heard that they had actually met prior to Jodi going to meet Travis before she killed him.

But you know, I do know Gus, that he -- he`s just a very eccentric person. And so I don`t put a lot of stock in this huge secret that he has. I think he`s just Gus being Gus.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look. If what you`re saying is accurate, that means when she went on her killer road trip, as we call it, before she left her house in Yreka, goes all the way down to the Los Angeles area -- and Gus lives in the general Los Angeles area -- and then goes to Arizona, kills Travis, and then goes to Utah and has sex with another co-worker, you have to wonder, did they meet each other, as you believe, right before she goes and kills Travis Alexander? And then did -- did she say something to him? Did they do something?

I mean, did -- look, we know that Jodi has a way with men. Do you think that maybe this Gus was interested in her?
HUGHES: Absolutely. I don`t know much about that relationship, but I could come quick for presume that. And I know that Jodi, when she left Travis`s house and went to Salt Lake City, they did not have sex in Salt Lake City just for the record, but -- but they were...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They fooled around. You`re right. You`re absolutely right. They fooled around. They made out, but they did not have intercourse. You`re correct. Continue.

HUGHES: So anyways, but I -- so I just think that there was definitely something there. I don`t know how strong the relationship was with Gus Searcy and Jodi, but there was some kind of connection there. I think that he was interested in her. But I don`t know to what extent.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. OK. The prosecutor, Juan Martinez, definitely did not like the idea of this man coming into the case and perhaps blowing it wide open.

The prosecutor got heated, he started yelling at Gus Searcy. Check this out. Tempers boiled over.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think he`s had contact with the prosecution in the last three years? Yes or no?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I only know what he`s told me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know what you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then let me tell you. I understand English pretty well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re having problems with it today, aren`t you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I know of. That`s a double negative. No, it`s not true. Yes, it is true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what`s your answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s not true, yes, it is true. You asked a double negative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. And I`m asking you to answer it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s bring in our lawyers to debate. Did the prosecutor lose his temper? And if so, why?

Starting with Darren Kavinoky.

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Well, you know, this local exchange was so very telling. And Jane, remember, just to put this in context, this was a motion that the defense was making, based on supposed prosecutorial misconduct.

So now here`s the prosecutor cross-examining Gus, and as our friend just told us, you know, that`s just Gus being Gus. There`s no question that Gus being Gus is not going to shrink in the face of that prosecutorial cross-examination.

The thing that was so off putting to me, though, is if that`s the way the prosecutor is going to behave, cross-examining defense witnesses in front of the jurors, he really runs a serious risk of alienating them. That sort of, yes, I get to ask the questions, it really -- it really is off-putting. It`s something that -- that makes a prosecutor look bad in the eyes of the jury. And let`s not forget: this is persuasive. He won`t win any popularity contests there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Rene Sandler, I guess my question is does the prosecutor feel threatened by this guy who is getting ready to possibly take the stand for the defense and drop a bombshell?

RENE SANDLER: Absolutely. The prosecutor`s demeanor today, he is scared about something. He`s scared about his case imploding and reasonable doubt or a lesser included second-degree murder. So this prosecutor is clearly unhappy and uncomfortable with this witness.

Why did this prosecutor not return the call of this witness? Why did he ignore this person? What did this prosecutor not want this witness to say?

I`m going to venture to say, Jane, that this witness has something very key to this defense. He knew both people here, the victim and the defendant and has something to add about the defense in this case and the sexual relationship, domestic violence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to take a left turn. Jon Lieberman -- hold on a second. Jon Lieberman, you`re going out of your skin.

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I think this information is important in Mr. Searcy`s head, but I don`t think the prosecutors cared about what information he had and that`s why they didn`t call him back all those times. And I think the prosecutor was getting upset with the fact that he felt it was becoming the Mr. Searcy show. And he was asking some pretty basic questions, and he wasn`t getting any answers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Danny Savales (ph).

DANNY SAVALES (PH): Yes. Jon Lieberman has got it right there. I`ve got to tell you, this is not a case of the prosecutor being afraid. What happens, whether you`re prosecution or defense, sometimes you get so vested in the facts, so involved in the case that you can`t help but let the emotion out.

And of course, the prosecution, up until now, thinks they have an open and shut case. So the idea that someone may come in and potentially break open the case is frustrating. I don`t think it means the prosecutor is scared, but it is very easy and I have sympathy for this prosecutor, that when you know the facts so well and somebody is challenging that in a way that is just opposed to the way you`ve come to believe what the facts are, it`s easy to get emotional.

But it`s absolutely true that that prosecutor must caution against getting overemotional. You cannot come back with your witnesses, although it is true sometimes you have to ask a question that you do not know what the witness will say the answer to, and that`s probably what`s going on here. When a witness combats with the prosecutor, that can happen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ten seconds. Ten seconds.

Here`s one other thick. Even if Jodi did meet with him and told him something, her credibility has been so impeached it may not matter what she said to him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what if they met and they did something? We`re just getting started with our look at the defense case. Stay right there. More on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it still possible that they think someone else could have been involved, that Jodi Arias could not have dragged Travis` body from one part of the bedroom back into the bathroom?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You keep saying you knew that it wasn`t healthy, and you knew it was contributing to something that wasn`t good. And yet you guys continued to do it.

ARIAS: Yes. And part of that -- part of my perspective now has to do with the fact that I`m going through a repentance process that I worked out with my bishop.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The defense case getting ready to start tomorrow. And could one witness basically implode the prosecution case? We don`t know, but we`re asking that question.

In fact let`s go out to the phone lines. Christine, North Carolina, your question or thought, Christine.

CALLER: Hey, Jane.


CALLER: I love you. I got to see Rico Friday. I`m so excited. And I want to say hi to your mom, too.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. Thank you.

CALLER: My question is they mentioned only one time about Jodi Arias looking on the Internet about Wicca, and included in Wicca is also Satanic- type stuff, things like that. And I`m wondering if she did this as a -- what do you call it?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Like a ritual sacrifice? A ritual sacrifice. Wow. Well, that`s heavy duty. Thank you, Christine, North Carolina.

Dr. David Hughes, again, you introduced Jodi Arias to Travis Alexander. We`re going to talk to a good friend of Jodi`s or a former co- worker who -- who felt that her behavior was off.

Her behavior was off according to some people. What did you see? Do you think that this was potentially something that might have been almost demonic, as this caller has suggested?

HUGHES: No. I don`t -- I know that she had it on her MySpace account that she practiced Wicca. And, you know, that was kind of the thing that she did. I don`t know how much she was involved in that. She never talked about that with us.

Because again, she started to look into the LDS faith pretty quickly after she had met Travis. Like literally within -- I think it was a week or so. So she never talked about that.

I don`t think that had anything to do with this. Now the way she killed him might have been, in her mind, a way to, you know, have certain meaning behind the stab, behind the gunshot, but I don`t think it had anything to do with the Wicca practice.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But talking to Jon Lieberman here because I`m not a Wicca-wise person. In ten seconds, what`s Wicca?

LIEBERMAN: It`s basically like a pagan belief, like witchcraft is basically what it is. It`s a form of witchcraft.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she had that on her MySpace. Oh, OK. Wow.

The prosecutor also accused this man, Gus Searcy, who could take the stand for the defense, of trying to insert himself into the trial, claiming that, well, he`s trying to steal the limelight. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were upset with the prosecution because they weren`t calling you, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t your reputation, sir, that you want to make yourself the center of attention?

SEARCY: Where do you get that from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m asking you a question, sir. You don`t get to ask me questions.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t it true you want to use this situation so that the limelight can be focused on you?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in the attorneys again. You know, we have a lot of high-profile cases that have ended this acquittal after a wild card witness had taken the stand.

You remember in the O.J. Simpson case, you had Kato Calen. In the Casey Anthony case, you had meter reader Roy Kronk. Both of those individuals acquitted. And now you have, seemingly out of nowhere, this Gus Searcy. Could this be the wild card defendant -- the wild card witness who changes everything? Rene Sandler, start with you.

SANDLER: Is he really out of nowhere or did the prosecution just ignore him and hope that he would go away or not surface in this trial? So each side knew of this man. This man is now injected into this case in a prosecutorial misconduct motion. He`s on the witness list.

Clearly he has information the defense feels is relevant to the central theme of their case, i.e. self-defense, domestic violence. That`s what this is about. Anything other than that, irrelevant.


HUGHES: Yes. We`ve got to take a step back and look at this case. I mean, reality is we already know Jodi Arias said she was there. Not in so many words, but that`s her defense. That`s what self-defense is: "I was there, I did it, but it`s excusable and here`s why."

So we have to ask the question what in the universe could Gus Searcy possibly testify to if he wasn`t there, unless Jodi Arias stopped by his house on the way to Travis` home with a couple of guys in her car with battle axes. That`s about the only thing that could change these facts.

Remember, the standard for prosecutorial misconduct is whether it`s harmless error. If they failed to call him or tried to change his testimony, ultimately they`re going to look at that harmless error standard. That`s what that is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if we look back at other trials that have gotten out of control for the prosecution -- O.J. Simpson, oh, he was talking about a cartel that was mad at his ex-wife for drugs, allegedly. We all know that`s a total nonsense story.

Casey Anthony, oh, she blames the Zanny the nanny. So then she blamed her own dad.

So there`s always a fall guy. If the defense wants to present a case, even if they`re arguing self-defense, they sometimes work in other fall guys or fall people.

We`re continuing this debate on the other side.


WILLMOTT: Behind the smiles in these photographs, there was a whole `nother reality for Jodi. A reality that Travis created. Because in reality, Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.




ARIAS: If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life. I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this new defense witness, a man who was on the defense witness list who could testify as soon as tomorrow, Gus Searcy, he may drop a bombshell, according to another witness who said, "Oh, yes, he told me that he has information that could set her free."

Now, this Gus is an interesting man. He`s quite a performer. Check him out playing the keyboard from his Web site.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: On top of that, he was also a professional magician working at the famous Magic Castle in Hollywood. He also invented Butler in a Box. That`s an automated system that lets you ask your fictional butler to turn on the lights, open the drapes, turn on the coffee maker and even operate the pool cleaner. I wish I had one, although I don`t have a pool.

Apparently, he`s pretty good with money, too. At 16, he said his parents allowed him to play the stock market and he made money at age 21. He says he was the youngest owner in the world of a 7-Eleven franchise.

So I want to go to Jean Casarez, who`s been very patient with us, our correspondent from "In Session," who`s there in Phoenix, Arizona.

Jean, so many people have been talking about will Jodi take the stand, will Jodi take the stand? Maybe people are missing the point that there`s somebody else, maybe this Gus, who`s going to take the stand and change the dynamics of the case? What say you?

JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": I agree. I agree completely. Everybody is so sure that she`s going to take the stand. Well, if they can put on witnesses that maybe saw injuries, that saw Travis do something to Jodi, personally saw, because remember Gus knew both of them, then they may not put Jodi on the stand.

But watch out defense witnesses, because the prosecution, he`s going to try to obliterate every single defense witness on cross-examination.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Dr. David Hughes, again, a friend of Travis Alexander`s and you`ve joined us, Travis Alexander is not here to defend himself. And it`s clear that, however they do it, they`re going to try to put him on trial and essentially say that he was sexually abusive to Jodi. How does that impact you emotionally?

HUGHES: Well, it`s really sad for all of his friends and especially his family. But the thing that drives me crazy about this is that she -- they talk -- defense -- sorry, the defense talks about his secret life that he had with her, sexual life. It wasn`t secret. It was private. You know, we don`t know about your sexual life or you don`t know about my sexual life. We just don`t air that. So it wasn`t secret. It was just simply private.

And the fact that she`s claiming self-defense -- prove it. The evidence does not exist. We hung around each other all the time. We saw each other all the time. We were at different events all the time. His roommates never saw anything with any evidence whatsoever. Never heard anything. His best friends that he always hung out with, there were people in Travis` house all the time. And no one ever heard or saw any evidence to support that.

This is just a desperate plea of hers the last chance to say, "Hey, I did it in self-defense." But there`s no evidence to support that. And the only evidence that will come out is her lying cell mate that she was -- you know, look at the criminals. They all have in common. They lie.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s why we`re so happy to have you here to speak, in essence, for Travis, who is not here to speak for himself.

And we`re going to continue with more on the other side on Jodi Arias, but also in a few minutes, we`re going to talk Casey Anthony. She`s broke; she`s filed for bankruptcy. And we`re going talk to somebody who talked to her just a couple -- like recently. Like, what, a day ago or two days ago. So that is absolutely stunning information we`ll bring in you just a minute.

At the top of the hour, Nancy Grace goes behind closed doors it at the jail are Jodi Arias is being held. This exclusive look top of the hour right here on HLN.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors believe he was still alive, and Arias followed him down the hall to the bedroom where she slashed his throat. Then dragged his body back to the bathroom accidentally taking pictures all along the way.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Behind the smiles in these photographs, there was a whole other reality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Information that will hurt her or free her.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I would never stab him. If -- if I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was make it as humane as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because in reality, Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.

ARIAS: Well, so I`m as good as done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While he continued this facade of being a good and virginal Mormon man, he was inwardly dealing with his own sexual issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have information that will either hurt her or help her and it just depends.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy, what a day in court. This man, Gus Searcy, took the stand, this was out of the jury`s presence, but essentially in this hearing we learn that he may have as, a defense witness, information that could blow this case wide open. We will hear from another witness that said he talked to this man, that Gus told him "I have information that is going to change this case."

Listen to this. And then we`re going to analyze.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said something about I have information that will hurt her or free her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think he`s had contact with the prosecution in the last three years?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I only know what he`s told me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know what you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then let me tell you. I understand English pretty well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re having problems with in today, aren`t you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I know of. That`s a double negative. No, it`s not true. Yes, it is true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your answer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s not true, yes, it is true. You asked a double negative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. And I`m asking you to answer it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fireworks in court. And we`re also hearing there`s a possibility that when Jodi left Yreka for what we`re calling her killer road trip where she ultimately killed Travis. Before she went to Arizona where Travis lived, she rented a car in Redding and then went down to the Los Angeles area. And we`re hearing that she was in the vicinity of where this Searcy lived.

So did she visit Gus Searcy? And if so, did she tell him something to perhaps provide an alibi or to set up her case -- Jon Leiberman.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: It actually sounds like if she did indeed visit Gus Searcy, that this information in Gus` opinion could have been used by the prosecutors or could have been used by the defense. What I mean by that is he was first trying to reach out to the prosecution. "I have this information." Then when they weren`t calling him back, he went to the defense, now he`s a defense witness.

So if they did interact, Jodi and Gus, did she share with him something that could potentially have set up her self-defense claim like I`m going to see Travis and I`m going to break it off but I`ve been a little scared, or does she do the other -- is it the other extreme that she sort of sets up the premeditation somehow saying that I have a weapon with me or whatever. It`s going to be interesting to see.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But why would that be a witness that the defense wanted to bring if it didn`t help Jodi?

LEIBERMAN: I think this piece of information could be taken either way. I think it`s either way, it`s all up to interpretation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s the thing. She initially denied that she was there and we`ve had her on the police interrogation tapes where she denies that she was ever there. And then when the prosecutors confront her with all the facts, she said, oh, yes, I was there but two ninjas in masks came in and they did it. And when they proved that that was an absurd, she finally admits it Jean Casarez. So as you hear all this and we try to figure out what information does this Gus Searcy have that could blow the case wide open.

What are your thoughts given that if she did visit him, she was pretending and coming up with receipts and everything to try to show that she didn`t even go there?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Right. Well, we`ve heard nothing in evidence so far that she even met or saw someone named Gus Searcy. But if he`s going to testify as to something Jodi said, it has to be against her interests. Because if it`s something that helps Jodi, that`s self-serving hearsay and Jodi has to say it on the stand, not this guy.

Now if he personally observed something or if there was a text sent to him maybe from Travis then that potentially could come in. But not something that helps Jodi.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right, Jean, if they had a conversation, he couldn`t just repeat the conversation. She`d have to take the stand. So it has to be some kind of physical evidence. Darren Kavinoky, what do you think it could be?

DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I`m not sure what it could be. It better be blockbuster or else Gus Searcy is more than just a performer. He`s a big blusterer. But as much as Searcy may be a performer, there`s another performer in that courtroom and that`s Jodi Arias.

And given what we know about her through the multiple stories that she`s given on all of these interview tapes, you`ve got to wonder is some of the performance that we witnessed in court today, some of the fireworks between the prosecutor and Searcy, what impact might that have on Jodi`s decision ultimately to take the witness stand or not. Because Jean is absolutely correct that these self-serving admissions can`t come into evidence through Searcy and it`s all seemingly too thin at this point for her for Jodi to launch -- to make a legitimate run at self-defense. She has to get up there. Boy, she`s got to be nervous about that notion now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And we`re all over this trial. Of course, tomorrow the defense case begins and on this show we`re going to have an exclusive guest-- a close friend of Travis who also knew Jodi. That`s right here 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And it`s going to be a big day in court tomorrow, so I hope you join us for that.


  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
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« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2013, 12:41:02 PM »

Jodi Arias Wanted to Plead Guilty

Aired January 28, 2013 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet on a work trip in Vegas and they fall hard. But when the flame burns out, they break up, she then moves 300 miles to chase him, even converting to Mormonism.

But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped over dead in the shower of his home, shot, stabbed 29 times. And just hours after she admittedly stabs him to death, she`s literally hopping on top of a brand- new boyfriend. Twenty-seven-year-old Arias has wild sex with Travis all day, even photographing the sex. But just minutes after sex, slashes his throat ear to ear.

Bombshell tonight. We are live here in Phoenix, Arizona. Just behind me, Jodi Arias`s jail cell. Tonight, we go inside the jail, just as we learn Arias tries desperately to plead guilty to murder two, but for a light sentence. Prosecutors say, No way, Arias.


GRACE: We are here in Arizona, in the Estrella jail. Hello, ladies. With me is Sergeant Pike (ph), and she will be taking us through the jail. I want to find out where she is every day and what she does every day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She may read. She has day room access for 16 hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s not really much to do because there`s, like, a small space, and there`s nothing out there. So we just walk around, like, in a circle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... our brunch sack, or as the inmates call it, a lad (ph) mo (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Phone calls are available to her. She may make phone calls.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the women`s prisons, they get to hang around each other, get to communicate with all the other inmates.

JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Don`t roll the tape yet!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She doesn`t deserve to have that kind of happiness.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pretty much day-to-day life in a small cell with another person.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We try and stick together. We`re here for each other.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... inmates per cell, so we can -- we have a pretty good view.

This is a psychological area where inmates are evaluated by psychological staff.

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) (INAUDIBLE) and there`s the knowledge of my own innocence.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

We are live here, Phoenix, Arizona. Just behind me, Jodi Arias`s jail cell. Tonight, inside the jail.

Bombshell tonight. As we touch down in Phoenix, Arizona, we learn Arias tries desperately to plead guilty to murder two for a very light sentence. Prosecutors say, No way, Arias.

Everyone, joining me tonight specially, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, the sheriff that runs the jail in which Arias is housed. But as we touch down and make our way to the jail tonight, we learn that Arias tries desperately to take a guilty plea.

Yes, she wants to plead guilty to murder two in the stabbing and shooting death of Travis Alexander, but she wants a light sentence, and the prosecution says no. This as an explosive day in the courtroom.

Straight out to Beth Karas. Beth, what happened?

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, she was going to plead to second degree murder, but that carries 10 to 22 years, and that was not going to happen. The state is seeking death.

But today was a hearing. There was no jury. And the defense is alleging prosecutorial misconduct on the part of Juan Martinez, the prosecutor. They called a witness who says he tried to call the prosecutor during the pendency of this case, that he never got a call back. It`s not really clear what the allegation of misconduct is, Nancy.

GRACE: Wait a minute! Beth...

KARAS: But it may be...

GRACE: Beth, Beth, Beth!

KARAS: ... that...

GRACE: Just -- are you telling me the defense wasted our time by claiming prosecutorial misconduct? Travis Alexander, 29 stab wounds, ear to ear, and they`re saying the prosecution misbehaved by not returning a phone call? Do I have a bad connection? Did you just say that?

KARAS: Well, they think it`s a little more involved than that, that maybe he had a reason for not wanting to call this witness, named Gus Searcy (ph). Maybe he thought Gus wasn`t going to help him, so he didn`t want to talk to him, which is his right as a prosecutor.

But it`s not clear. I mean, maybe he called this other witness, Chris Hughes (ph), to have him call Searcy to find out what Searcy was going to say or to tell him to say something different or not to cooperate with the defense.

It`s just not clear. It`s not finished, though. These witnesses have to be cross-examined, so we haven`t heard everything.

GRACE: OK. Out to you, Jean Casarez, also at the courthouse. Everybody, we are all here live tonight bringing you the very latest in what proves to be one of the major trials of the decade, Jodi Arias on trial for the stabbing and shooting death of her lover, Travis Alexander.

Her story has changed multiple times, but somehow, some way, she manages to convince people she`s telling the truth. I can`t tell you how many inmates I spoke to behind bars today. Every one of them said the same thing. I`ve met Jodi Arias. She`s such a sweet girl. She`s beautiful. She wouldn`t hurt a flea -- she wouldn`t hurt a flea. She wouldn`t squish a bug! She killed Travis Alexander because he was going to kill her. They all believe that. Will she take the stand and work that same magic on a jury of 12?

We are live and taking your calls. Out to you, Jean Casarez. What`s going to happen? Are they going to put her on the stand? And is this claim of prosecutorial misconduct going to drag into the jury time tomorrow?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, yes and yes. It is believed that Jodi Arias is going to take the stand because traditionally, in a self-defense case, it is only you that can tell your story. But we won`t know until it happens.

And as far as prosecutorial misconduct, as Beth said, the chapter has not ended yet. The story is untold at this point. There will be cross- examination tomorrow and a brand-new witness from the defense.

GRACE: Joining me tonight is a special guest, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Maricopa County sheriff. He runs the jail in which Arias is housed. Sheriff, thank you for being with us.

JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF: (INAUDIBLE) a little wet and cold out here.

GRACE: It`s a tiny bit wet, but you know what? When I think about what Travis Alexander went through, when I think about what his family is going through during all of this, seeing him dragged through the mud, this is a very small price for me to pay to be here and to see justice as it unfolds.

Sheriff, I was very interested in the inner workings of your jail today. And to a fault, every single inmate that I spoke with that has come in contact with Jodi Arias believes that she acted in self-defense.

You know, is it your belief, Sheriff Arpaio, that a lot of defendants have a certain charisma about them, that they can -- they should be in sales. I mean, they can sell anything. They can sell ice to an eskimo. Have you ever noticed that about certain defendants, Sheriff?

ARPAIO: Well, we expect these gals to say -- you know, they`re all in the same -- not for murder, but they`re all in jail. I`m sure they`re not happy being in jail. So naturally, they`re going to support their fellow inmate. That`s just human nature.

GRACE: Everybody, we are live and taking your calls. Straight out to Steven in South Carolina. Hi, Steven. Do you have a question for the sheriff or for any of us on the panel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was actually -- oh, by the way, I love your show, Nancy. I mean, you don`t even know how (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was wanting to know what angle do you think the defense might take, knowing that they have the pictures of him in the shower where they -- or in the bedroom in a -- like, a -- like a calm position, you know, like -- like he was just calm, like, before the murder happened.

GRACE: Well, you know, I`ve had a lot of people call in, Steven in North (SIC) Carolina, regarding his demeanor in the shower because he looks very calm. In fact, he looks like he`s posing for a sexy photo shoot with Jodi Arias. I mean, he`s flexing his biceps. He`s looking completely calm.

And the question is going to be, Jean Casarez, how -- and those photos are timestamped, Jean. How in less than one minute, literally in about 40 seconds, did it turn from this sexy photo shoot -- I don`t think it`s sexy, but apparently, Jodi Arias thought it was sexy. How did it turn from a sexy photo shoot to suddenly, she`s stabbing him to death and she shoots him?

I mean, she had to have those weapons concealed on her. We see a photo of her leg, and she`s got on her clothes, so she obviously has the weapons concealed on her. How can there be an attack on her and she`s already got concealed weapons? That doesn`t make sense.

CASAREZ: I think the defense is going to use that time factor to their advantage. They`re going to say that something happened, thus no premeditation. As far as the weapons, opening statements we heard from the defense said the knife was there because he was tying her up with satin cording from a pillow. As far as the gun, no explanation with that.

GRACE: OK. Matt Zarrell, a lot is going down in the case. We expect some of the main witnesses to start in just a couple of hours. What can you tell me about the defense`s star witness, LaViolette?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): OK, well, let`s start with she`s got a lot of history with both books and speeches, including she has one speech where she questions whether Snow White was a battered woman.

GRACE: Stop. Stop. Whether Snow White was a battered woman. Hold that thought, Matt Zarrell.

Let me go out to Bonny Forrest, Dr. Bonny Forrest, psychologist joining me out of LA. Dr. Forrest, thank you for being with us. That kind of ruins her reputation, in a sense, when -- I mean, how can you take someone seriously in a case such as this, with this gravity, a murder one case, where one of her main speeches is, Was Snow White a battered woman? Help me.

BONNY FORREST, PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, I don`t know if I can help you on that one because that one`s really hard to understand.

From my experience on these cases, I think the problem here is, is that she keeps changing her story and keeps really calling into question her credibility. I think from a defense standpoint, that may play into their defense because they still have to put on their case and show us exactly how it is that this whole thing happened.

GRACE: Right now, we`re going out to Memory in California. Hi, Memory. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. (INAUDIBLE) I love your show. I love -- your twins are beautiful...

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and you think so much like myself. But Nancy, I just wanted to say a couple of things. First of all, I, too, am a member of the church that they both belonged to. And my husband and I were watching this early on, when she claimed that -- they had somebody on the stand that was saying that, you know, they had sexual intercourse and that there was this -- like, some sort of hierarchy of sin that -- you know, that they would be accused of.

That`s not true. There`s no, you know, Oh, if you have sexual intercourse, you`re going to -- you`re going to be ex communicated. Oh, that`s worse than if you stab the neighbor`s dog or if -- you know, there just isn`t this thing.

You know, you would go in and you meet with your bishop, talk to him and discuss, you know, your personal things, first of all. So I just wanted to clear that up. That`s wrong, what she said.

And second of all, even if they were into this little thing, this kinky sex that she claims that they were into and all that stuff, and he took this gun up -- I mean, this knife up there, like you said she did -- you know, could have done for the cording, or what have you -- what did she need the gun for? What`d (INAUDIBLE) for?

And if he`s self-defense -- he`s in the shower naked, and he`s going to -- and she`s taking his camera and going to take pictures of him and then try to drop the camera, make him mad, take pictures that he didn`t like, that he told her not to take...

GRACE: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... whatever -- so one step, boom, and run like heck. Get the heck out of Dodge.

GRACE: OK, out to you, Beth Karas, weigh in.

KARAS: Well, you know, it is true that Jodi Arias is saying that, you know, this is going to look really bad for Travis Alexander if this case ever goes to trial. She wanted to avoid this case going to trial by taking a plea because, she says, he was not the person that his friends in the Mormon church thought he was.

Now, regarding, you know, how the killing went down, maybe she did drop it. Maybe, if you believe the state`s case, you know, she dropped it intentionally. She did something to try to make him angry. But there`s no question that he was dead in fewer than two minutes from the last photo of him alive.

GRACE: Well, you know, Beth, that whole theory, the theories that you and Jean and Bonny have gone over and over and over with me, they`re all very interesting, but here`s the deal. You can`t have an attack and her running to go get a weapon and it all go down in just a few seconds.

Everybody, we are here. We have traveled to Phoenix, Arizona. We are going to be in the courtroom again tomorrow. What will the fate of Jodi Arias be? Will she take the stand? Many court watchers says she is the defense star witness.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "He was a rock in my life. He introduced me to the church. He baptized me. He was a source of light."

ARIAS: If Travis were here today, he would tell you that it wasn`t me!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say she`s a model inmate. She`s very intelligent. She reads a lot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Much of our relationship toward the end was rocky."

ARIAS: There`s no reason I would ever want to hurt him!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now her story is she killed Travis in self- defense.

ARIAS: He works out really, really hard. He`s so strong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very savvy about the law. She understands our grievance procedures quite well.

ARIAS: If I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I love him so much. I know that he is in a place that`s so wonderful."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s just very quiet. You don`t hear much from her.


GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live here outside the Maricopa County jail. Testimony set to resume in just a few hours in the case of Jodi Arias, charged with murder one in the stabbing and shooting death of Travis Alexander, her lover.

Big question. Will Travis be painted to be a wife beater? Will Jodi Arias take the stand and drag him through the mud? A series of experts on the defense witness list, some of them psychologists, giving us a clue as to what is going to happen in the courtroom. But many people say the star witness is going to be Jodi Arias herself.

This as we learn Arias tried to plead guilty. That`s right, tried to plead guilty to murder two, but she didn`t like the time associated with any other sentence. The state said no.

Unleash the lawyers, Hugo Rodriguez, Miami, Alex Sanchez, defense attorney out of New York.

All right, Hugo Rodriguez, that`s deadly, if the jury were to learn what we know, that she actually said she wants to plead guilty to murder two?

HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Mistrial. Let`s hope it doesn`t happen because they`re not entitled to know that.

GRACE: I didn`t ask you that!

RODRIGUEZ: They`re not entitled...

GRACE: Of course they`re not entitled...


RODRIGUEZ: It would be a mistrial if it was known.

GRACE: Yes. We all know that, Hugo. That`s why the jury doesn`t know. They`re never going to know. We know. It doesn`t seem quite fair...

RODRIGUEZ: Well, don`t say never.

GRACE: ... but what about it? I`m going to go to you, Alex Sanchez. That would be deadly. If the jury knew that she tried to plead guilty to this murder, it would be all over, but they`ll never know.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, let me tell you something, Nancy. The prosecution may regret not accepting a plea to second degree murder. I personally don`t think she should take a plea to second degree murder because I don`t think she`s going to be convicted of that offense because if she`s able to establish that she was, in fact, the victim of some form of psychological abuse, she has a case for all except maybe some minor charges, of being convicted.

GRACE: That`s a complete crock!

SANCHEZ: Well, I don`t think it`s a crock. And if you look at his statements about him calling her a "ho" and him calling her a slut and him calling her a three-holed wonder, that reveals something about who he is, and that needs to come to the jury`s attention.

GRACE: Oh, right! He deserves the death penalty. Right. He slings a few nasty names, so she gets to slash him from ear to ear. You know, I thought I was in America!



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a case of who done it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense in this murder case is once again calling out the prosecution for misconduct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There can be no legitimate dispute about the fact that she was there willingly.


GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are here outside the Maricopa County jail, and with me, special guest Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who runs this jail.

Sheriff, thanks for being with us. Question. How is Arias taken back and forth to the courthouse every day?

ARPAIO: She`s transported by our officers the same way as anyone else, in pink underwear and striped uniforms. Once she gets there, she switches into civilian clothes, when she appears in the court. When she gets done, back in the uniform, back to jail.

GRACE: Now, when you say she`s taken to court just like everybody else, I`m not necessarily referring to her underwear, I`m talking about, is she in a car? Is she in a sheriff`s bus? Do they have an underground holding area? Do they drive under the courthouse and go up, or do they walk in at street level?

ARPAIO: We have an underground way of transporting prisoners. But once again, I mentioned the clothes because we do change into civilian clothes when she appears in a court.

GRACE: Do they go on an MA (ph) bus?


GRACE: Are they handcuffed on the bus?


GRACE: And how many are on the bus?

ARPAIO: Depends how many are going to be transported that day. I think we have room for 12 or 14.

GRACE: You know, the reason I`m asking, Sheriff Arpaio, whenever I was in need of witnesses, I wanted more witnesses to bolster my case, a sure-fire way to find out more about the defendant is to go to the jailhouse, find a cellmate, a podmate in your case, find somebody that had been a cellmate or a podmate in the past.

And interestingly, I had a couple of cases I cracked with someone that had ridden in the jailhouse bus to the courthouse. Is there a record of who rides with her back and forth to the courthouse on any given day?

ARPAIO: Well, I`m sure we have a record. We want to make sure they don`t escape. We want to bring them back. So yes, we have records, I would imagine. We know who we transported.

GRACE: So if I wanted to find out what she may have said on the bus, Sheriff, I could look up one of those inmates and question them?

ARPAIO: Well, I`m not going to get into all that. I`m telling you...

GRACE: So I`m going to take that as a yes.

ARPAIO: Yes, if you can get there.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias could join three other women currently sitting on Arizona`s death row if a jury finds her guilty as charged. A first degree murder conviction could land Arias in line for what`s recently become one of the nation`s busiest death chambers.

The state carries out all post-1992 convictions by lethal injection and now permits witnesses to watch prisoners put to death. Its courts recently gave the green light for witnesses to observe the entire execution process, including insertion of the lethal IV.

Arizona courts further OKed a one-drug dose of pentobarbital as the method for death, but the state is said to have only enough supply of the drug to carry out one more execution before it`s forced to find an alternative.

Convicted rapist and double murderer Dale Stokely (ph) was put to death last month by prison officials who delivered his lethal injection by cutting into his groin area, this in efforts to find an artery suitable for delivering the drug.

The femoral catheter procedure is standard alternative when officials run into trouble inserting IV lines into a prisoner`s arm.


GRACE: We are live here in Phoenix and taking your calls. Right behind me the jailhouse, Maricopa County jailhouse, where Arias is housed. We have been in the jail, in and out all day long, learning what we can.

This is an explosive day of testimony, rips the court apart, and it`s scheduled to start again in just a couple of hours.

With me Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Sheriff, if Arias was to get -- were to get the death penalty, that goes down in a state facility, Florence, Arizona?


GRACE: And how far away is that from here?

ARPAIO: About 30 miles.

GRACE: OK. And now witnesses are allowed to watch the death penalty?


GRACE: I want to go out to our doctor joining us tonight, Dr. Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologist, medical examiner.

Dr. Dupre, it is now a one-drug protocol, pentobarbital. Why was it reduced from a three-drug to a one-drug protocol?

Hey, Drew, let me know when you get our medical examiner back up, when we get her on line.

In the meantime I`m going to Chad Perkins just joining me. Chad is a childhood best friend of Travis Alexander.

Chad, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: Chad, I knew that you guys have been best friends since you were children. What was your first reaction when you learned that Travis had been killed by a woman that he was dating?

PERKINS: Well, initially I didn`t realize that it was Jodi. I just knew that Travis was killed. And even that was just really hard to believe because Travis is just such a tough character. He`s so resilient and later I learned it was Jodi, I still couldn`t believe it. Everyone that knew him that was around everything that happened in Arizona, they all knew but I still had a really hard time believing it.

GRACE: Chad, what have you learned about Jodi Arias before the murder and then after?

PERKINS: Well, I knew that she was this sweet thing, and Travis baptized her and helped her out. And I knew also about six months before he died, I asked Travis about her and their relationship, and he said, oh, it`s a huge, long story. A lot of fatal attraction type stuff. I don`t want to get into it. Just a bunch of bad news there. So I just kind of let it go, and I just thought it was just this really casual thing.

And it wasn`t until I started putting pieces together for myself afterwards that I realized that she was trouble and she definitely did this.

GRACE: Wait a minute, Chad. Are you telling me that Alexander said it`s a fatal attraction thing?

PERKINS: Yes, yes. He sounded like -- I mean, Travis is always kind of a prankster, jokester type guy, but he did kind of, like, hint at this fact that -- that Jodi had a little bit of a crazy tendency, a little bit of a stalker tendency even months before he died.

GRACE: You know, Travis Alexander came from so little, Chad, and made so much out of his life. How did he get involved with Mormonism?

PERKINS: He got in through his grandmother, and he had his own bouts of back and forth when he was really young. And then when he was about in high school, he started going independently. So regardless of what anybody else around him was doing, he went independently and got his own personal conviction about then, about midway through high school, maybe sophomore year.

GRACE: Out to Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story, who is Gus Searcy, and how is he taking center stage?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: OK. Gus Searcy was actually called today. He was in court for the hearing for prosecutorial misconduct. Gus Searcy said that he got a call from Travis Alexander`s friend, Chris Hughes, or received a text message, asking that - - was he on the witness list, that he heard that he was on the witness list and this is within an hour of the defense actually putting him on the witness list.

So the defendant is implying that Chris Hughes got the information from the state that Searcy was on the witness list. Also Searcy allegedly told Hughes that he had big information that could really help or hurt Arias but he only hinted at it. He did not say what that information was.

GRACE: So, bottom line, they are claiming that someone leaked the defense witness list?

ZARRELL: It seems like the defense is suggesting that that is where - - that is where Chris Hughes got the information from, was from the state. That Searcy was on the list.


GRACE: But that doesn`t matter because witness lists are public. The state`s witness list is often on the back of the indictment, and at some point the defense has to file their witness list with the county clerk. So I`m not quite sure what`s wrong with someone leaking who is on the defense witness list.

But with me is Dave Hall, he is a friend of both Chris Hughes and Gus Searcy, friend of the witness who testified today.

Dave, how do you know Chris Hughes and Gus Searcy, and what`s your take on all of this?

DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF WITNESS WITH DEFENSE, CHRIS HUGHES AND GUS SEARCY: Well, I know Gus Searcy from business. I`ve known him for many years. I`ve had him in my house in Utah. And Chris Hughes is also in the business and he`s also kind of a relative of mine.

GRACE: When you say he`s in the business, what do you mean by that?

HALL: In legal field. We all work in the same company together.

GRACE: OK. And, Matt Zarrell, what will Searcy`s -- testimony be if it goes in front of the jury?

ZARRELL: Well, that`s what we`re trying to figure out is, what is this info that he has that says could be make or break for Arias that he even implied that Arias could be freed by the information.

GRACE: With me right now, Bonnie Druker.

Bonnie, you`ve been in the jail all day, alternating from between here and the courthouse. What have you learned?

BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, I`ve learned that being in the jail is no walk in the park. This is hard time. And what we`ve also learned by talking to a lot of the inmates is that the same way Jodi Arias manipulated men, she seems to be manipulating all the people in the jail.

Just want to show you pink seems to be the color in the jail. This is a pink shirt. They wear some pink panties --

GRACE: Underwear, Bonnie, underwear.

DRUKER: Yes, underwear. Some striped uniforms, and this is what everybody wears.

GRACE: Bonnie, I appreciate that. But Travis Alexander was stabbed 29 times when he was shot and you`re showing me some pink underwear.


GRACE: What else did you learn, if anything?

DRUKER: Again, I learned that she manipulated a lot of these inmates. I learned that most of them said that she did not do this and that they support Jodi Arias in this case.


GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live camped outside the Maricopa County jail. With me tonight Sheriff Joe Arpaio who runs the jail in which Arias is housed. With me at the courthouse, Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session," and Jean Casarez, legal correspondent "In Session." Both of them have been in the courtroom from the very beginning.

So, Beth, a claim of prosecutorial misconduct sounds bogus to me. What`s next?

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Well, you know, the hearing will continue briefly in the morning and then the defense case will start. We don`t know who they`re going to start with. I wouldn`t be surprised if they begin with their expert witnesses and then maybe put on some friends of Travis and Jodi, who might say something about, you know, seeing an argument maybe, but they have two or three experts they intend to call. Of course the wild card is Jodi Arias. Will she take the stand and will it be in the next few days.

GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, a story reared its ugly head that there is a witness that saw Arias with some bruises on her hand, possibly a broken finger, maybe a bruise on her neck, and that after a lot of coaxing that she said -- Jodi Arias said that Travis Alexander had left those bruises on her. What do we know about that?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": This is what we know. A former boyfriend of Jodi Arias`, they dated about two years, I believe he`s from northern California, and according to some writing that he may have done on a blog, he saw Jodi one day and she had a broken finger and she had finger marks that were in red on her neck.

He asked her what happened. She blamed it on a seat belt, but he kept pushing her and pushing her and she finally says that it was Travis. And he said, why don`t you stay away from him? And she said, I try but he just won`t let me.

GRACE: And will this ex-boyfriend, yet another man that apparently is under her spell, will he testify?

CASAREZ: It appears as though he might. He told the defense he didn`t want to come anywhere near the trial, did not want to be a part of it, but it appears as though he may be a witness for the defense.

GRACE: Now, Jean Casarez, that is the very first thing I`ve heard so far that would lend any credence whatsoever to her claim that she was battered by him, that he had beaten her in the past. I still don`t see the logistics of that day she was under attack so this was self-defense. But this blogger sounds like the first person that could put any skin on the bones of that claim.

Let`s go to the lawyers. Hugo Rodriguez, Alex Sanchez.

OK, guys, take off your defense hats just a moment and let`s analyze this. I don`t know -- first out to you, Rodriguez -- that the judge would allow the testimony because it`s basically hearsay that the defendant said, that would be self-serving to Jodi Arias.

Wouldn`t she have to testify to that herself? He can testify to what he saw, Hugo, the bruises, the broken finger, but after what she said, I don`t think that`s going to come in. She`s going to have to take the stand if she wants that in.

HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: Unless the state attacks her and then they could bring it in as a prior consistent statement, but, Nancy, what`s very revealing are the questions that the jury asked.

They have a unique system that the judge allows jurors to ask questions. They submit them to the judge and then the judge asks the questions to the witnesses, and their questions are revealing. You know, they have real questions about the knife, possession of guns, and who else has alibis. That`s revealing.

GRACE: Yes, I know. I know. We covered that when it happened. And I`m still concerned about how the jury thinks the roommates were involved when the defense says in open statement she did it. My client did it.

All right. To you, very quickly, Alex, I don`t think that this blogger witness, the ex-boyfriend, is going to get to testify to that. That would be complete hearsay in a self-serving statement of Jodi Arias`. She is going to have to testify to that.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It is hearsay, but it is permissible hearsay, plus it comes in to -- comes in under the theory of subject to connection, meaning it first comes in and then once she testifies, she can confirm that that particular conversation had taken place.

GRACE: You know, the thing they can`t get around, to you, Dr. Michelle Dupre in Columbia -- I think I`ve got you back -- medical examiner, pathologist, is the nine stab wounds to the back. How can that be self-defense, Dr. Dupre?

DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes. I totally do not know the answer to that. Stabbing in the back is not self-defense. (INAUDIBLE) actually has defensive wounds himself.


GRACE: We are all here camped out just in front of the Maricopa County jail. Inside Jodi Arias is housed. It`s been an explosive day in court. Mud was sling all -- slung all over the courtroom.

Testimony set to take back off in just a couple of hours. But I want you to listen to a MySpace conversation between murder defendant Jodi Arias and childhood best friend of Travis Alexander. This took place over MySpace. Take a listen.


JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Personally, I am absolutely devastated. He was a rock in my life. He introduced me to the church. He baptized me. He was a source of light. Much of our relationship toward the end was rocky, but it will never change how incredible and amazing he was -- and still is. Nor will it ever change how grateful I am that our paths crossed.


GRACE: To Chad Perkins, joining me tonight exclusively, childhood best friend of Travis Alexander.

Chad, when you hear this, she is having this MySpace conversation with you with blood literally dripping, you know, down her wrists. She just killed him and she`s having this conversation with you about how amazing he is, how he baptized her, how she is so grateful he was in her life? Response?

PERKINS: Yes, it -- it makes me really uncomfortable, especially after the fact, to realize that she did it, that she admitted doing it, and that she has contacted me before. There`s something about that that is just not acceptable to me for some reason. It makes me really weird, feel really uncomfortable.

GRACE: Well, what`s so amazing, and I`m just still reeling, Chad, from walking up and down all the halls of this jailhouse with one person after the next that she has convinced. Of course, she wasn`t under cross examination, that she acted in self defense.

I want to go back out to the courtroom stars Beth Karas and Jean Casarez.

Beth Karas, first to you. I guarantee you Arias wants to take the stand, and there are 11 men on that jury. Look, after I heard about the one Mormon gentleman that sat alone in a car with her for two hours and then he wanted to leave his wife and children, I`m concerned.
KARAS: Well, you know, she is a little seductress. I don`t know if it will work on the men in the jury. You know, there are 11 men and seven women. There will be six alternates selected randomly, so we don`t know what the final deliberating jury will look like, how many men there will be. But I`m sure that it is a concern to the prosecution that she might have some effect on even one man, but that doesn`t mean she goes free. That just means they have to do it over if --


GRACE: OK. What about it, Jean?

KARAS: If there`s someone that will hang the jury.

GRACE: What about it, Jean?

CASAREZ: I would be concerned about the women, and I`ll tell you why we need to be concerned about the women. Once this defense case starts, they will portray Jodi as a victim, someone who is emotionally abused, a victim of domestic violence, maybe even sexually abused.

Let`s see about that. Could any juror relate to her? And I`m talking a female juror.


GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Specialist Joseph Lewis, 26, Terrell, Texas. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Ribbon, parents Mike and Pam, sister Amanda, widow, Teresa, daughter Abigail.

Joseph Lewis, American hero.

Welcome back, everybody. We are here outside the Maricopa County jail. With us tonight, braving the elements, it`s been pouring rain on us here, Sheriff Joe Arpaio who runs this jailhouse. Behind me just a few feet, Jodi Arias waits for her rematch in court tomorrow morning. It`s been an explosive day in court.

Out to the lines, Beth in Michigan. Hi, Beth. What`s your question?


GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?

BETH: Yes, my question is, do you see any similarities between Arias and Ted Bundy, like they`re very (INAUDIBLE) talkers, good looking. He wanted to become (INAUDIBLE) seeing photos in court and Arias made that more of a curiosity comment.

GRACE: Well, I`ll tell you what I see as a commonality between Arias and Ted Bundy, not so much the number of their murder victims, which of course there`s no comparison to Ted Bundy who was a serial killer. But their demeanor I find to be strikingly similar. Ted Bundy was very, very charismatic. He had a magnetic personality.

Even people that heard the evidence and knew him still don`t believe he did it. Arias seems to have that same effect on people, and very anxious to see if she takes the stand and to see how the jury reacts to her.

Kelly in California. Hi, dear, what`s your question?

KELLY, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. I would like to know what are the odds --

GRACE: Thank you.

KELLY: What are the odds that Jodi Arias is a psychopathic, cold- blooded killer who has a multiple personality disorder where one part of her didn`t know what the other part did?

GRACE: Good question. I`m going to throw that to Bonnie for us, psychologist.

Weigh in, Bonnie.

Hi, Nancy. I think it`s pretty slim. First of all multiple personality disorder is very rare. I think that here you have -- a situation where she certainly is charismatic. I`m with you on that, Nancy. I think other people will see that as a very confused young woman.

GRACE: Everyone, we are here for the duration, today outside the -- outside the jail, tomorrow at the courthouse.

As we go, I want to say happy ninth birthday to third grade California friend kidney transplant survivor Xavier. And happy birthday to our friend Margot, mother of two, and Cat Felix.

Everybody, "DR. DREW," is up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, Good night, friend.



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« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2013, 12:48:03 PM »

Arias Trial Fireworks

Aired January 28, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, what do Jodi Arias` lawyer have to do to win?  ::snipping2::

So let`s get started.



PINSKY: Welcome to the program. My co-host all this week is Laura Baron.

And tonight`s all-star panel: Marcia Clark, famous for prosecuting O.J. Simpson and author of "Guilty by Association." Jose Baez got Casey Anthony acquitted. And Dr. Casey Jordan, a criminologist and consultant for Discovery I.D. "Scorned! and I Almost Got Away with It". And "In Session" correspondent Beth Karas.

But before we go to this panel, we were supposed to have another exclusive with Jodi`s ex-boyfriend on tonight. But listen to what happened in court today.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Abdelhadi, if I`m saying this correctly, he gave an interview on television saying that he would precluded from testifying here in court.

JUDGE SHERRY K. STEPHENS: I`m going to give you an opportunity to prepare for cross examination and we will call Mr. Abdelhadi back at a later date this week. But we will call him now for direct examination.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know somebody by the name of Gus Searcy.

ABDELHADI (via telephone): Yes, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In regard to these phone calls that went unreturned by the prosecution, what was his demeanor when he was telling you about this?

HADI: It seemed to me that he was a little surprised, a little insulted.


PINSKY: So, Beth, tell me about this. Did we create all this consternation in court by interviewing our friend?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": No, I don`t think you did anything wrong. It was perfectly fine that Mr. Abdelhadi came on your show.

What the defense -- it`s not really clear what their allegation on misconduct is, but I think it has more to do with another person reaching out to Gus Searcy who testified for the defense today. And maybe the defense is suggesting that the prosecution threw another coworker at Gus and was trying to persuade him from cooperating with the defense. But Mr. Abdelhadi simply supported the state position that that`s not so.

PINSKY: And, Casey, large part of the defense here is about her being a battered woman. Does she fit the profile for you as a battered woman?

CASEY JORDAN, PH.D., CRIMINOLOGIST AND BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: It would be the ultimate stretch to really plug her in. To what we know about women, especially who have been successful with the abuse defense. Think about Lorena Bobbitt or Martha Sheehan (ph) or Mary Hinkler (ph), they have long histories of abuse, moreover, anyone within the inner circles knows that they`ve never witnessed it, there are personality characteristics of the alleged abuser, that they can all imagine bad things have happened behind closed doors.

But all of Travis Alexander`s friends really stand by him and say he wasn`t capable of anger. They never saw -- he was a sweet, good-natured, gentle person, and we have no police reports, no change in her behavior, no introversion, no isolation. Really nothing to back that up except her word, which isn`t worth a whole lot given her string of lies.

PINSKY: And, Marcia, you are, of course, famous for the O.J. Simpson trial, author of "Guilt by Association" -- your thoughts on this?

MARCIA CLARK, AUTHOR, "GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION": That she fits the profile of a battered woman? I don`t see it at all. None of her behavior fits it.


PINSKY: Most of that is the strategy of the defense.

CLARK: I`m saying will a jury buy it? I`m talking about whether or not -- you asked my opinion whether or not I thought it was viable. I think it`s the only theory they have. It`s the only defense strategy there is. I don`t think it`s going to succeed.

Her inconsistent behavior -- and I`m not saying victims don`t sometimes behave inconsistently. But hers is so wildly out of sync with anything that fits within the battered person`s syndrome, I think it would be really difficult for an expert to sell that to the jury. I mean, we`ll see, but I think the prosecution has a wonderful, wonderful line of cross examination just waiting for them.

PINSKY: Laura, I want to ask you something --

LAURA BARON, CO-HOST: You know, Marcia, as a woman, how insulting is it that she is coming up -- that they are coming out with this battered woman syndrome in the ninth hour to presumably just get her off? Does that bother you as much as it bothers me?

CLARK: But they have nothing else. They have to go whole hog with it. What else do they have? They have nothing else. It`s, I didn`t do it, I wasn`t there. Oops, I was there and some other attackers got me, and then it was, you know, oh, OK, he beat me up but it was self-defense.

It`s one of these -- it`s kind of the classic thing where the rat runs the light and look for any opportunity, any avenue. I would think a prosecutor is going to have a field day with all of the statements she made, all of them lies, provable lies, that she had accepted, OK, that wasn`t true, then it was this. That wasn`t true, then it was this. It`s really going to be easy for the prosecutor to kind of walk a knife through butter on this.

PINSKY: Casey, I`m going back to you. The fact that in the O.J. trial, Marcia, you`re the victim. And this trial, our victim, nearly had their heads cut off by these crimes of what seem to be passion.

So, what I`m asking, Casey, is there a pattern like that out there? Rather than the pattern of domestic violence, is this the pattern we should be looking at?

JORDAN: Perhaps. I actually host a show on I.D. called "Wives with Knives." It`s exactly about women who are generally scorned or plan an attack. You have to understand that when women attack, and there`s an interesting thing about this case in that she had a gun as well. That knife is something they`re familiar with.

The 27 stab wounds to me speaks for itself, and that is clearly rage. That`s not staging. I know that there is some conflicting evidence as to whether Travis was shot first or stabbed first, and I`m not really sure it matters, because there had to be rage for 27 stab wounds, including one straight through the heart and seven to the back.

And then the temerity of her to photograph it after the fact, which they`re not disputing, really does go toward the idea this was a crime of rage. Calculated or not, the rage was there. And I think it had everything to do with jealousy and the fact he was going on a cruise with another woman in a week.

PINSKY: OK, Jose, I`m going to go to you now. You, of course, have defended a nefarious out there, let`s just say. And people, I remember back when your trial was on, people were like, oh, is Casey going -- there were a lot of consternation of whether or not she would take the stand? Do you think Jodi should take the stand?

JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she has to if she`s asserting an affirmative defense. In this case, she is, which is self-defense. So there is a substantial likelihood that she will, but she doesn`t necessarily have to if she can somehow show through the physical evidence and the forensic evidence that perhaps there was a struggle and it was quite possible that it was done in self-defense.

But if she`s going to fully assert that self-defense, she`s going to have to take the stand. But we all know she doesn`t have to.

PINSKY: I don`t know. Anyone else have an opinion about that? It seems like maybe that`s what`s coming here. We`re all sort of anticipating that because we all look at this defense and go, nobody buys it, maybe she can sell it to somebody.

CLARK: She doesn`t need to take the stand, Drew. She doesn`t have to if she can get her experts to tell the story, and no, they won`t cut to the truth of the matter asserted, and that`s legal terminology for saying an expert can testify to an opinion and base his opinion on hearsay.

And then that hearsay that he bases an opinion on, for example, her statement to the expert or what he heard of her, that doesn`t have to be admissible in and of itself. He can just say, my opinion is she was suffering from battered person`s syndrome. She told me, da, da, da, da, da. You know, he attacked her, she was upset, it all fell out this way, and that way the testimony gets before the jury.

The jury will be instructed they aren`t to rely on that as evidence of actual statements made by her, just as material that the witness, that the expert, relies upon. But that`s fine shaving, that kind of fine line is something juries have a really hard time -- it`s like unringing the bell. How can they pretend they didn`t hear the expert testified to the statements that she made?

So, they can often get by with an expert saying, opining, that she was a battered person without her getting on the witness stand.

PINSKY: OKL. We need to take a break. Finish that thought.
Beth, finish that thought.

KARAS: I just want to say that the judge ruled already that the experts cannot testify to the basis of their opinions. However, they can`t do a run-around with Jodi being on the stand and being cross examined. But, it may come out anyway. The prosecution may not object in the end and may ask himself.

PINSKY: All right. Next up, we`re going to show you some footage of some interesting and heated exchange. We got to take a break here. That occurred in the courtroom.



JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR You`ve attempted to call the Maricopa County attorney`s office, haven`t you?

GUS SEACY, WITNESS: Yes, I`ve tried to reach you plenty of times.

MARTINEZ: And, in fact, no one from the county`s attorney`s office ever return your call, right?

SEACY: Which I found really interesting.

MARTINEZ: Yes or no?


MARTINEZ: You were upset that you called the county prosecutor`s office and they didn`t return your call?

SEACY: I wouldn`t say I was upset, I was surprised.

MARTINEZ: You were upset with the prosecution because they weren`t calling you, right?


MARTIEZ: Isn`t your reputation, sir, that you want to make yourself the center of attention?

SEACY: Where do you get that from?

MARTINEZ: I`m asking you a question, sir. You don`t get to ask me questions.


PINSKY: That was the heated exchange -- he became the center of attention tonight for us, too.

Welcome back. Co-host is Laura Baron this week.

The jury was not present for that, Beth Karas. Tell us what that was about.

KARAS: Well, this was cross examination. Juan Martinez was really annoyed at Gus Searcy because he has just said that he had been trying to reach the prosecutor`s office, and that this guy, Jeff Hughes, another coworker, had called him two weeks ago saying, I`m looking for the prosecution and why are you testifying for the defense and trying to get information out of them?

Well, it turns out that Juan Martinez never did return Searcy`s call. It is true that Searcy called him. But he thinks that Searcy is trying to be the Kato Kaelin of this trial. That`s what it looks like.

BARON: Drew, what is that? What is it about people wanting to hang onto murderers, people who want to be in these major trials? What`s so sexy about it?

PINSKY: Well, you know, I think Kato is trying to hang onto his meal ticket there and it just so happened he got sucked into the murder trial. I don`t think he was expecting that.

Yes, I think people get fascinated by attention. That`s what the attorney was saying there. Jose, do you agree with any of this?

BAEZ: Well, I do. When you`re in a case like this, there are a lot of people who want to walk in the parade. They see a lot of attention going on, and they think that somehow they can catapult it or manipulate it into a second career of sorts. And I see that -- you see that all the time.

And many times they`ll create testimony or stretch testimony and talk about things they never saw, heard or smelled before, and you have this. It is par for the course with these types of cases, and I`m certain Marcia can speak of that as well. But it is just as common as can be.

PINSKY: Well, yes, the O.J. case sort of invented the phenomenon. Yes. So, tell us about it, Marcia.

CLARK: Jose is right. This is one of the things that happens in high-profile cases and it`s one of the downsides in having media involved in any of these trials, because you have witnesses coming forward who just want their 15 minutes of fame. They make up testimony or they heighten testimony, and it really so undermines the purpose of speaking truth and justice. It`s bad for the prosecution, it`s bad for the defense.

On the other hand, you also have witnesses who don`t want to come forward and actually scale back their testimony. Kato Kaelin is an example of someone who tried not to testify, tried not to tell us all that he knew about the domestic violence between Simpson and Nicole.

So, the media`s involvement is a devastating thing on both ends of the spectrum, and seeing it here with this Mr. Searcy, it was so clear to me watching everything that went down, and the description of him by others saying, he`s a media attention seeker, he likes to have the publicity. You saw me kind of hesitate, I almost said something else. But he likes to have the attention.

JORDAN: He`s a media whore.

CLARK: When the prosecution doesn`t call something like that, someone who comes forward a million times and keeps calling and saying, call me, call me, call me, please put me on, and we don`t, they get frustrated and then they go to the defense and find something the defense can use. Eventually, they find their way in.


JORDAN: By his body language, he`s being defiant. He`s holding his head in his hands like, why don`t you like me? I could be on your team if you had answered my phone calls.

So, he`s very ego driven, attention seeking. He`s being disrespectful to the prosecutor.

And in my defense work, I see self jurors, but I also see self- witnesses. Some people inject themselves into a case because they want to feel important.

PINSKY: One thing I`m seeing is something you don`t expect to see on the witness stand, which is glee. He seems to be gleeful about what`s going on here, and the glee is about the attention being directed towards him and not the gravity of a murder trial, which is really kind of story.

So, Laura, there you go. I didn`t know we were going to get such an elaborate answer. It`s kind I feel like I was on to something.

Let`s go to a call here. Alicia in California, do you have a comment for us? I`m going to go to Alicia first. Alicia, are you there?



ALICIA: I don`t think that Jodi is a battered woman. I think that we think of a battered woman as someone who has physical, you know, something you can see. I do think that, you know, she went along with it to a point thinking that somehow she was going to turn it around, because there`s always emotion when there`s physical contact, always. It goes hand in hand. Most females will attach somehow, and I think that`s what she`s doing now.

BARON: Alicia, is it almost -- are you conflicted because as a woman you want to support another woman, especially if she`s saying she`s getting abused, and at the same time, we`re looking at a massive liar. It`s very difficult to digest.

ALICIA: Yes. I think men are. I don`t think as a woman we can understand a male`s brain.

PINSKY: Let me -- let me ring in that probably true, but this is, after all, a murder trial.

Casey, I`m going to go to you since you do this kind of profiling. Is there a new category -- possibly they`re going to try to investigate here. Maybe new category isn`t the right language, but maybe something other than the physical domestic violence victim we see these days, something of a psychological nature where her liabilities, which are clearly substantial, were somehow played upon by this guy so he could get sex.

JORDAN: Yes. And we see -- let`s get away from the word battered and just consider abuse and its spectrum. The bottom line is there are women who are psychologically and emotionally, as well as physically or sexually, controlled by men, especially those cobra men. Not the pit bulls if you know your true typologies of batterers. They are the kind who psychologically tear down a woman`s self-esteem and make her a psychological and emotional slave to him so that she doesn`t have an identity outside of him.

But we have nothing of this with Jodi Arias. He breaks up with her. He pushes her away time after time. She moves away but she comes back. She goes to Los Angeles, she calls him up, basically for a booty call and says, I`m coming over to your house, and she takes a knife and a gun and already has her alibi worked out.

This isn`t going to work. There`s just nowhere on the abuse spectrum that we have a case that even remotely approaches this in terms of mind control. It`s pure denial on her part.

BARON: She really -- she really does look like the manipulator in this. I mean, she goes over, she has sex with him, she takes some sexy photos and then, it`s bam.

Drew, I want to know from you, what do you think her state of mind is when she`s being intimate with him? How does someone go from such an intimate phase to such a monster?
PINSKY: Yes, that to me -- you know, sometimes when there`s extreme alterations of somebody`s brain state, behavior state, psychiatric condition, for us to use our rational brains to try to understand is almost impossible. I can`t understand that shift.

I can understand that she`s a stalker, that she planned this, she was raged, as Casey has been saying, completely sinister ultimately in how she carried this out. But how she goes from the intimacy to the violence, that`s too much for me to get my head around.

Listen, next up, we`re going to talk again about -- well, here`s what we`re going to do. We`re going to talk about Casey Anthony and her bankruptcy. I`m going to show you what she has in her worldly possessions.

And later, two families killed, two teenage suspects.

We`re also going to talk about what is happening to kids and bribing these kids to become horrible murderers.



ABE ABDELHADI, DATED JODI ARIAS: I made a little reach to find out candidly speaking if she was wearing thong panties or not. So, when she realized that she was, I made a little joke and I said, that`s not magic underwear. And she said, but there`s magic in them. And so, I thought, OK, this is fun. She`s going to be fun.


PINSKY: Well, there you go. Back with my co-host all this week, Laura Baron, and that was Abe Abdelhadi who appeared on this show exclusive to talk about having dated Jodi Arias and her magic panties.

Abe says Jodi never said a word to him about Travis having abused her in any way. In fact, she only talked about him in the most glorious terms.

Jose, you have experience with a client that changes the story a little bit. What are your thoughts on Jodi?

BAEZ: Well, I think she`s got a long road ahead, but we`ve yet to hear the defense case. There may be some shockers out there that we just don`t know about.

With all due respect to my fellow panelists before me, I don`t see how anyone could say she doesn`t fit into the mode of a battered woman when they haven`t even heard the defense case yet or even examined her. So they may be absolutely correct, but until you hear someone and until they`re allowed to put on a proper defense, you have to wait and see. And if I don`t think we learned that lesson with my case, and if I don`t think I taught the pundits a little lesson in that regard, I guess they`ll never learn.

PINSKY: All right. Listen, I want to go to a call. I think it`s Bootsy? Is that the name? Buzzi in Connecticut?


PINSKY: Hi, Buzzy. What`s going on?

BUZZI: I`m wondering, where are Jodi`s documentations? Where is her journal? Where are her pictures?

I`m 71, but I was battered for 20 years, and even after we were divorced for three years, he came over here and stalked me with his work truck and lifetime disabled me. Then he came over in 2010 and hit me with his truck three times.

The doctor said he`s a psychotic sociopath with psychopathic (ph) tendencies. I had no idea what that meant and they said he had no conscience. Where --


PINSKY: Buzzi, you`re making an association between your husband, who was a violent abuser, and Jodi.

BUZZI: And stalker.

PINSKY: Jodi was a stalker, too. And, Jose, we --

BUZZI: You don`t see any emotion from her. I have pictures in me that I had my friend take, she goes, are you sure you want me to take these? You can see the emotion in my eyes. I don`t have to be covered up. Nobody could see the bruises but you can tell me in my eyes that you know - -

PINSKY: So, Casey, I think what Jose was referring to was evidence, and what Buzzi is saying is that most women would have some history of evidence available to sort of point to. Maybe we`ll hear in court, who knows? But that`s what you`re looking for, right, Casey?

JORDAN: Yes, absolutely. And, of course, the defense has pretty much already laid out their plan with their expert testimony, but if there were photographs, if there were journals, as your caller indicates, they would be entered already and we would know about that.

I mean, the bottom line is it`s going to be her word, her claim. It does not help that she changed her story three times. And truly, what my big question is, you asked earlier if we think she`ll take the stand. I think her attorneys may tell her all day long, no, no, no, don`t do it, you`ll think yourself, but I think she is so self-absorbed and vain that she will insist.

I think there is a very good chance she will take the stand because she has self-brainwashed herself into believing she can do this if she just holds onto the role playing and the story that she was abused.

PINSKY: Beth, we have to say goodbye.

Beth, before you do go, do you agree with what Casey just said, that she`s likely to take the stand on her own demand?

KARAS: You know, I don`t know if she`ll go against her attorney`s advice, but I do believe she wants to testify. She did say that a few years ago when she was represented by other attorneys. She told some member of the media she was interview that she intended to testify.

No question this woman likes to talk, and I really don`t se how she can get her story out there without testifying, but I don`t know what`s going to happen.

PINSKY: I`m looking at that footage again, her mirroring precisely her attorney. It`s kind of spooky.

Thank you, Beth.

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« Reply #106 on: January 29, 2013, 01:05:00 PM »
Jodi Arias Trial: Defense to begin case in Ariz. boyfriend slaying
January 29, 2013

(CBS/AP) PHOENIX - Defense attorneys on Tuesday will begin making their case in the trial of Jodi Arias, an Arizona woman accused of killing her motivational speaker ex-boyfriend more than four years ago in a jealous rage.

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« Reply #107 on: January 29, 2013, 01:08:47 PM »

Tweets:  January 29, 2013

29m Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
first #JodiArias defense witness: GUS SEARCY
31m Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
#JodiArias dressed in pants suit today... Ready to testify????
2h Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
Make sure you turn to #HLN at 3pm to see if #JodiArias is taking the stand!!!
2h Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
Fasten your seatbelts... Day 1 of #JodiArias defense case!!!

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« Reply #108 on: January 29, 2013, 01:58:46 PM »

Tweets:  January 29, 2013

6mVinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
Check out this website if u are watching #JodiArias first witness...  and click on about the author

38m Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
#JodiArias witness describing Arias as upset and shaking after a phone call with Travis Alexander... trying to prove abuse...

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« Reply #109 on: January 29, 2013, 02:39:47 PM »
Jodi Arias Murder Trial: Reported Plea Deal Attempt
Dan Abrams and Nancy Grace discuss the trial of a woman accused of killing her ex-boyfriend.

January 29, 2013

Video & Transcript at Link

  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
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« Reply #110 on: January 29, 2013, 07:11:33 PM »

Oh my JVM on now says jodi had great implants! I don't know what it has to do with anything! Will see! Hello sister! Waving at you! Hello everyone! Great updates.

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« Reply #111 on: January 29, 2013, 07:17:45 PM »

Gas cans! Here we go again! Any duct tape? Sorry couldn't resist!
If she was so battered! She should have stayed away from him! She couldn't have been to scared of Travis!
She was addicted to him! I say! She should of stuck with her chocolate addiction! She wouldn't be locked up! Sorry just saying. Back to the loft

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« Reply #112 on: January 29, 2013, 07:18:57 PM »

Thanks for all the updates 😉

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« Reply #113 on: January 29, 2013, 08:28:39 PM »

Thanks for all the updates 😉

You're welcome, loca! 

  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
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« Reply #114 on: January 29, 2013, 08:41:15 PM »

Tweets:  January 29, 2013

4h Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
#JodiArias listening to her Ex testify...

4h Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
#JodiArias looks teary eyed as ex describes being in love with her... They were together 4 years

4h Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
#JodiArias ex was at first her supervisor at work...

4h Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
Judge rules cameras can not take pictures of #JodiArias ex while he testifies... Arias smiled for a brief moment as he took stand

4h Vinnie Politan ‏@VinniePolitan
#JodiArias ex of 4 years called to the stand witness #2 for defense

  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
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« Reply #115 on: January 29, 2013, 08:50:06 PM »

Jodi arias has a girlfriend behind bars? Meaning a friend or what's the implication? I don't get it
Per nancy grace commenting on Hln?

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« Reply #116 on: January 30, 2013, 10:51:56 AM »
Jodi Arias Borrowed Gas Cans Day Before Killing Travis Alexander, Ex-Beau Says
January 29, 2013

Accused murderer Jodi Arias borrowed two five-gallon gas cans from a former boyfriend the day before she drove to Arizona to kill another ex, Travis Alexander, according to testimony in Arias' murder trial today.

In cross examination, prosecutors also forced Arias' former live-in boyfriend Darryl Brewer to describe his sex life with Arias as "pretty aggressive."

Brewer, 52, dated Arias for four years and shared a home with her in California for two years. He told the court today that Arias called him in May 2008, asking to borrow gas cans, but would not explain why. She called him again at least two more times, and arrived at his house on June 2008, to borrow the cans.

On the day she picked up the gas cans she told Brewer that she was going to visit friends in California and Arizona.

Prosecutors argue that Arias then drove to Mesa, Ariz., where she allegedly had sex with Alexander, took nude photos of him, and then stabbed him 27 times, slashed his throat, and shot him twice in the head. She is charged with murder and could face the death penalty if convicted.

Brewer said that Arias never returned the gas cans. The pair had been broken up two years earlier and they had only spoken "sporadically," he said.

Video at Link

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« Reply #117 on: January 30, 2013, 10:54:53 AM »
Jodi Arias Murder Trial: Former Boyfriend Takes Stand
The defense called its first two witnesses in the trial of the woman accused of killing her ex.

January 30, 2013

Video & transcript at link.


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« Reply #118 on: January 30, 2013, 11:01:48 AM »

Ex-Lover Testifies on Behalf of Jodi Arias

Aired January 29, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, a wild day in court as the defense in the Jodi Arias case begins and tempers immediately flare. One of Jodi`s long-time ex- -- ex-lovers tries to paint Jodi Arias as prim and proper. A hard worker and a loving girlfriend. Will the jury believe that? Or will they believe the dark and murderous profile of Jodi the killer that the prosecution describes?

And will Jodi take the stand to speak for herself?


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): An explosive day in court as Jodi Arias`s ex-lover takes the stand in her defense and speaks lovingly of their time together, singing her praises.

But then prosecutors grill him on cross-examination, and we learn Jodi borrowed two gas cans from him just before driving to California and killing Travis Alexander. Was she trying to cover her tracks?

And why did Jodi get breast implants? Is that relevant to this case? Is this defense backfiring? We`re taking your calls.

DARRYL BREWER, JODI`S EX-LOVER: I knew Jodi because we were in love.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Did Jodi ever act jealous at all?

BREWER: Not that I saw.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jealousy? Anger? Fear, fear of being alone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had broken into his e-mail accounts, his bank accounts. She would sneak into his house through the doggie door and sleep on his couch at night without him knowing.

MARTINEZ: Did you ever notice her being violent or having a violent temper?


MARTINEZ: What did she say?

BREWER: "I just decided to take a little bit longer trip."

MARTINEZ: She was asking you for gas cans in May of 2008 at the very end so that she could make a trip to Mesa, Arizona?

BREWER: It seemed to me like she was not as rational and as not as logical as she was prior.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight a wild, explosive and sexually-charged day in the Jodi Arias courtroom. Day one of the defense case brought real fireworks. But can Jodi`s ex-boyfriend`s testimony save her from a murder conviction?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

The stunning 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, slit his throat from ear to ear, and shot him in the face. She left gruesome wounds like the ones you see here in these autopsy photos, but she claims it was all done in self-defense.

An epic battle in court today as Jodi`s former lover, Darryl Brewer, took the stand, his face kept secret from the cameras. Darryl testified Jodi was a wonderful, hard-working woman with whom he fell in love. And she cried as he spoke.

But the prosecution tried to use Darryl to paint a darker image of a sexually aggressive woman like the one we saw in the triple X-rated photo shoot that you`re looking at. We have to warn you. This language is explicit, but it was said in open court today.


MARTINEZ: Do you remember the first time you and she had sex, though, right?
BREWER: I do remember, yes.

MARTINEZ: And she was very aggressive, wasn`t she?

BREWER: We were both aggressive.

MARTINEZ: Not only was she aggressive, she was enthusiastic about it. Wasn`t she? The sex, I mean.

BREWER: We were both enthusiastic.

MARTINEZ: At some point you and she both enjoyed on two occasions (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sex. Right?

BREWER: Possibly once.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the defense then fired back and had Jodi`s ex- boyfriend testify that she wasn`t into wild sex games or rough sex during their four-year relationship. Again, the language is graphic, but this is what the jurors heard.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did your sex life with Jodi Arias involve wearing little boys` underwear?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve putting her in schoolgirl outfits and pigtails?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve bending her over desks?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on her face?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve calling her a whore?







VELEZ-MITCHELL: The defense claims Travis did those things. Will this war over sex be the deciding factor for the jury? And will Jodi Arias take the stand in her own defense?

Call me. I want to hear from you: 1-877-JVM-SAYS; 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. You were in court during this extraordinary first day of the defense. Describe the mood and the fireworks on this day one of the defense case.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, SENIOR HLN PRODUCER: Jane, it was a packed courtroom. There was a long line outside of the courtroom for the public to get in. Because there were so many people from the public trying to get seats inside this courtroom to watch the day one of the defense.

There was an energy in the courtroom. There was a buzz: would Jodi take the stand today? Who was the first defense witness? So it was definitely a very energetic day in court.

But I have to tell you, the witness that shocked everybody was Jodi`s ex-boyfriend, who was a very serious boyfriend of hers. They owned a house together. They lived together for a couple of years. This was the boyfriend right before she met Travis Alexander.

And what started out, he started out as a defense witness. And the defense is questioning him. He had nothing but great thing to say about Jodi. She was not jealous; she was not clingy. She was a perfect girlfriend the way he explained it.

But then the prosecution came. And they brought up gas cans, which none of us had ever heard before. And the prosecution asked, well, didn`t she borrow gas cans from you before she left on her trip to, on this road trip that he was taking, alluding to premeditation, that Jodi knew she was going to Arizona. She didn`t want to make any stop at the gas station so people wouldn`t know and be able to trace her trip to kill Travis Alexander. So she borrowed gas cans from her ex-boyfriend to not -- not leave any traces of where she was going.


DARKALSTANIAN: And that was a bombshell. None of us had ever heard about gas cans before.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly. The prosecution used a defense witness and turned him to their own ends.

And so let`s talk a little bit about what Selin just mentioned. They grilled this defense witness, Jodi`s boyfriend before Travis. And this idea that Jodi called him and said, "Hey, I`ve got to borrow two gas cans from you," that she took from him the very day before she killed Travis Alexander. Listen to this exchange, and then we`ll debate it.


MARTINEZ: She was asking you for gas cans in May of 2008 at the very end so that she could make a trip to Mesa, Arizona? Do you remember that?


MARTINEZ: And she made more than one call asking you for these gas cans to make a trip to Mesa, Arizona, didn`t she?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: You could tell when he says yes, this ex-boyfriend is very upset about having to admit that he lent, actually gave -- she never returned them -- two gas cans to Jodi the day before she drove from California to Mesa, Arizona, and killed Travis Alexander.

OK. Let`s debate it. A huge win for the prosecution? We`ve got Jon Lieberman. We`ve got Jordan Rose, Nishay Sanan. Start with Jon Lieberman.

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it was a big coup for the prosecution, and they also showed receipts. And what the receipts showed was that she stops at a gas station. She fills up, gets ten gallons of gas. Then, a few minutes later at the same gas station, ten more gallons of gas. Seemingly trying to hide the fact that she`s filling up these gas cans. Then, she tells the ex-boyfriend that it`s in case she gets, quote, "lost." Come on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And the fact is that she, the way the prosecution plays it out, didn`t want anybody to know she was actually driving into Arizona. So if she doesn`t have receipts from Arizona, she can just go to Arizona, kill Travis Alexander, then go to Utah and hook up with this other guy, and it would be as if she never was there. Using the gas in the gas cans to get from point A to point B.

All right. Let`s bring in the other attorney. Nishay Sanan, criminal defense attorney, is that a huge win for the prosecution when they`ve got a defense witness?

NISHAY SANAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. I don`t think so. I think it`s no different than when the defense used the prosecution witnesses to start laying out their case.

All they really got out of Darryl, and I mean the prosecution, because I think the defense did a great job portraying Jodi as this nice girlfriend who then was turned by Travis into this monster. But what all those gas tanks show, these two gas tanks that she borrowed them, is two receipts that she filled them up. But I`m sorry: you`re not going to get from California to Arizona on two small tanks of gas. It`s just not going to happen.

So you know, they can throw up all the fire they want, the prosecution, but I don`t think they will be able to connect those two gas tanks to her trying to hide a trip to Arizona.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jordan Rose?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: An absolute disastrous day for the defense. I mean, here they were to prove that, you know, Jodi needs to have some sympathy. She`s a nice girl.

And they turn out to call a witness that is probably the best witness that the state has had in that he proves premeditation. Pure and simple premeditation with these gas cans. The prosecution tonight is probably thanking the defense for putting on this witness and wondering why in the world they didn`t find him first.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this case is all about sex. The defense trying to portray Travis Alexander as a sexual deviant who corrupted Jodi Arias.

We`ve shown you -- this is part of the court record, part of the exhibits -- naked pictures of Jodi in pigtails. She is naked in that shot. And that is the tamest shot. There are some extraordinarily graphic shots of her private areas. Got to say it, because that`s a fact.

The defense wants jurors to think this kind of kinky behavior was Travis`s influence and that he sexually abused her. The prosecution is saying, "Wait a minute. This is a girl who always wanted to look sexy" and then brings up the fact that she got breast implants. Listen to this.


MARTINEZ: Do you remember telling the investigator that the reason she -- you believe that she got the breast implants is because she wanted to fit in, in the crowd that you were traveling in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I don`t recall that.

MARTINEZ: Because your wife had just recently obtained breast implants.

ELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, listen. Nishay Sanan, I had a problem with this. Women get breast implants all the time. Last year alone nearly 300,000 American women got breast implants. You cannot make a connection between being sexually promiscuous and having breast implants. And I have to think any woman on that jury who even knows -- anybody who knows anybody with breast implants might become very offended by the prosecution making that leap. Let`s debate it. Start with Nishay Sanan.

SANAN: I agree with you. I think a woman on this jury is going to hear this prosecutor allegations that she wanted to be promiscuous because she got breast implants, I think it`s going to be a turnoff. If you take into consideration what this prosecutor now is trying to do, which is poke holes at the defense that`s being set up, I think he`s creating his own trap, and I think he`s going to fall into his own trap. I think he`s creating more...   

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Lieberman.

LIEBERMAN: But there`s another way to look at it, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s see our debaters. Three box.

LIEBERMAN: There`s another way to look at it. And that is, did she want to get these implants because she`ll do anything to conquer her, the man that she wants? So she gets breast implants. She -- you know, she takes pictures of them in the shower. I mean, I think...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But wait a second. He took pictures of her that were so graphic, we can`t even begin to tell you about them, but they`re of her very most private areas. Do the math.

LIEBERMAN: She was sexually aggressive toward him. I think what the prosecutors were hoping to show here is just a pattern, that here is this woman who will do anything to get him...


ROSE: You know, I think you can -- you can say what you want about the prosecutor. He`s incredibly aggressive, and I think going after -- and it has been, I think, to the point that it`s become ineffective. The jury is looking at him and saying, "You know, we don`t really like this guy."

And you look at Jodi and you kind of feel a little bit of, you know, you don`t want to be -- if you`re the juror, you don`t want to be the one that sends this pretty girl to death. And so bringing up the breast implants as a negative to her, knowing that everyone on the jury likely knows someone who has breast implants, is just not -- I don`t think that was helpful.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I know several women who have breast implants, and none of them are sexual deviants, to my knowledge, and they`re mothers, and they`re hard-working women and professionals. And people get -- women get breast implants for all sorts of reasons. I did think that was an error by the prosecutor.

We`re just getting started. An explosive day. Day one of the defense. We`re going to talk to a close friend of Travis Alexander, the victim`s, next.


MARTINEZ: She also took nudes of you at some point, right?

BREWER: There was one incident in the shower where she took a picture, yes.

MARTINEZ: So she took a picture of you while you were in the shower, right?

BREWER: Correct.

MARTINEZ: You didn`t ask her to take that picture. She took that picture of you.




BREWER: We began to spend a little more time together. Our relationship was not supervisor/employee anymore. And we became infatuated and fell in love.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Darryl, who -- his identity was protected to protect his family. He met Jodi at this very famous Ventana Inn, which is on a hillside along Big Sur overlooking the Pacific Ocean. I`ve been there. It`s absolutely stunning. Celebrities are known to stay here. It`s one of the top resorts, really, on the West Coast.

Jodi applied for a job as a waitress at that resort. Darryl, who was her supervisor at the time, hired her. But they didn`t start dating until he ceased being her supervisor.

And honestly, when he was telling his side of the story before the cross-examination, he was scoring points for the defense, describing her as loving, loving with his young son. She -- she was left with his young son.

It was all good until the cross-examination, when we learned that she borrowed two gas cans from ex-boyfriend the day before she killed Travis Alexander.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Angel, Illinois. Your question or thought, Angel.

CALLER: Hi, Jane, love your show. I just want to say first off I believe it`s premeditated all the way. I don`t think in any way was she led into any kind of sexual deviant behavior. I think she was going to do whatever she could to keep him, whether it be dress up as a schoolgirl, be his sex toy, whatever it took to keep him from marrying a more civilized Mormon, pure woman than what she was.

It seems like she was a social climber regardless, and she was going to do whatever she could to get him and killed him. She committed way too many offenses on his body to suggest that it was defense or any other excuse that she`s come up with that I`ve heard in this trial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in Marjorie Gilberg, executive director of Break the Cycle. You are a domestic violence expert. I believe, thinking about this case, that this case is going to break new ground and really try to expand the notion of domestic violence.

Now I know that this has genuine victims or survivors of domestic violence very angry. They`re trying to say, well, you`re a victim of domestic violence, even if you weren`t given a black eye. But if you were sexually degraded in sex games, which is what the defense is saying that Travis did with Jodi, do you buy that as legitimate domestic abuse? Or is it two adults, one male, one female, having kinky sex?

MARJORIE GILBERG, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BREAK THE CYCLE: You know, Jane, I think people, you know, they have a range of behaviors that they can use to control dating partners. And clearly, it could be consensual. It could be that one person felt pressured or controlled and manipulated into taking photos that they didn`t want taken in the first place and that they definitely didn`t want shared beyond the privacy of those two people.

I mean, we see it all the time happening with younger and younger victims as we see them using their phones as a tool to control and abuse. So it`s not that uncommon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth Karas, you have been in court today, and the defense tried to show that, when Jodi met Travis, she changed. They claim, through this ex-boyfriend, who I think is still in love with her on some level, he was just wonderful toward her and very upset that he had to give the prosecution something about the gas cans. But tell us how he describes her entire world changing when she gets involved in Prepaid Legal and the Mormons.

BETH KARAS: Right. She gets involved in the spring of 2006. That`s where Travis Alexander works. So March, April, she`s getting involved.

But by the fall, these missionaries from the Mormon Church are coming to their house. Young men are coming and speaking to her. And all of a sudden she`s saying to him, "No more cussing in the house. No more sex. I`m saving myself for my husband."

And they really hadn`t talked about marrying, getting married. But, you know, they co-owned the home. They both were on the mortgage. And so by the end of the year, he moved away. He went and followed where the mother of his child had -- had taken his child.

And he said Jodi was becoming irresponsible with her money, as well. So the defense will say Travis Alexander, Prepaid Legal, all having a bad influence on her. Not a good one.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And on the other side of the break, we`re going to continue this debate. Will this case break new ground and really broaden the notion of what is domestic violence? Do you have to be pummeled a la Rihanna with a bruised face, or can you just be degraded sexually? And if you are, why don`t you just say, "I`m not going to play"?

More on the other side.


ARIAS: He wouldn`t allow me to not answer his text message. If I didn`t respond, he would keep calling and keep calling until I did. And so to me that wasn`t obsessive behavior on his part. I took it as a compliment.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was doing well as an employee?

BREWER: She was excelling, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How was Jodi`s relationship with your son?

BREWER: It was outstanding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were they close?

BREWER: They were close.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Jodi ever act jealous at all?

BREWER: Not that I saw.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever notice her being violent or having a violent temper?

BREWER: Never.

GUS SEARCY, WITNESS: She was always dressed very feminine but very conservative.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are very delighted to have a very special guest with us tonight, exclusively. Judy -- Julie Haslam (ph), a close friend of Travis Alexander who also knew Jodi. You are there in Phoenix, Arizona.

And Julie, I want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. Clearly, you saw today the defense is going to try to paint your friend, Travis Alexander, as a sexual deviant. How do you feel about that? And do you feel there`s any basis in fact for that?

JULIE HASLAM (PH), FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, there`s obviously no basis for that. I feel like the defense, that`s all they`ve got. They have no defense. And so they have to play these games and make Travis look bad.

I have mixed emotions. I have frustration. I have anger. It`s just a range of emotions.

What about the fact that both witnesses, the ex-boyfriend and Gus Searcy from Prepaid Legal described Jodi Arias with whom you, I understand, also worked or knew, as when they knew her as not sexually provocative, as not a person with a temper, as sort of professionally dressed, conservative, nice. Obviously, they are witnesses for the defense.

But what`s your take on that? Is that how she came off to you?

HASLAM (ph): Well, no, not at all. Jodi was just one of those people that she was soft-spoken. I didn`t ever see her angry at all. But she just had this demeanor about her that was off. If you looked into her eyes, she was soulless.

But she seemed to have this control or this power over the single men. If you asked any of the women that were around her, any of the married men around her, they would tell you the same thing. It was just the single men that had this attraction to her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was she ever jealous in your presence? Did she behave in a jealous fashion vis-a-vis Travis?

HASLAM (ph): She did. We were actually at a Prepaid Legal convention in March of 2008. I had a friend with me who had been drinking, and we were with Travis that night. And she was hanging on Travis` arm, and we were all laughing and just kind of walking through the hotel.

And Jodi got very upset about that. And actually called (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and complained about that and said, you know, "She`s hanging all over my boyfriend, and I don`t know what to do about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And did you regard that as normal jealousy or something that was crossing some kind of invisible line that was a little creepy?

HASLAM (ph): She was very possessive of Travis. Very possessive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In other words, hanging onto him, clinging and obviously jealous when he gave attention to other women. Anything else that you saw in terms of that behavior?

HASLAM (ph): No, that`s it. She just was very clingy to him. If any woman was talking to him, she would give him this dirty look like "Back off. He`s mine." And she was just a person that I didn`t ever want to be around.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, please, stand by. Thank you so much for joining us.

Again, Travis is not here to defend himself, so we`ve had friends of Travis on to speak for him, in essence. We have much more on the other side.

And at the top of the hour at 8, Nancy Grace live from outside the Jodi Arias courthouse. That`s at 8 p.m. on HLN, but don`t go anywhere.

On the other side of the break, more debating on what today`s day one of the defense did for either side.


MARTINEZ: What about the third time?

SEARCY: Well, let`s continue on with that time.

MARTINEZ: Sir, I`m asking you when you met her the third time. You don`t get on ask the questions. I do. So when was the third time you met her? Sir, am I asking you about the evening? I`m not.




GUS SEARCY, DEFENSE WITNESS: She talked to him for about a half-hour outside. When she came back in, she was shaking and crying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Information that will hurt her or free her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m asking you when you met her the third time. You don`t get to ask the questions. I do.

SEARCY: She was always dressed very feminine but very conservative. Always long sleeves, high necks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m asking you who`s making the money?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arias tries desperately to plead guilty to murder two for a very light sentence.

ESTEBAN FLORES, POLICE DETECTIVE: Jodi, this is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In that one minute had Jodi not chosen to defend herself, she would not be here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact that she is claiming the self-defense, prove it.


JANE VELEZ- MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Fireworks in day one of the defense case. The defense is doing exactly what they promised to do in opening statements -- namely trying to expose victim Travis Alexander as somebody keeping a secret sex life that they painted was in direct contrast with his public persona as a clean-cut sexually abstinent Mormon.

Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Behind the smiles and these photographs, there was a whole other reality for Jodi, a reality that Travis created; because in reality Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now this is all very graphic but the defense already said Travis manipulated Jodi into certain sex acts and that Travis took these and even far more graphic naked photos of Jodi. Now in newly obtained court documents we`ve learned the defense strategy is to paint Travis as quote, a playboy, expert manipulator and sexual deviant using his own texts and voicemails". This is getting very dirty already. And Travis family has to bear witness and sit there and watch their loved one who cannot speak for himself being torn apart in public.

Let`s bring in the lawyers and Jon Leiberman, investigator.

Should the prosecution have taken the second-degree murder plea deal that we`re now just learning Jodi`s side offered the prosecution over two years ago? We`ll start with Jon Leiberman.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. Well, let`s be clear. This wasn`t a plea deal. This was Jodi Arias` attorneys going to prosecutors and saying we`ll plead to second-degree. Will you take that? And of course they said no. They said no because they believe they have the goods.

This is one of the strongest cases I`ve ever seen. Physical evidence- wise and they have Jodi Arias telling three different stories.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nishay, do you think they should have taken this offer to plead guilty to second-degree murder and walk away without having to spend all the money on this case?

NISHAY SANAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they should have if the offer was on the table; if the defense presented this to the prosecution. Why is the prosecution dragging the family through this, knowing that the defense is going to portray Travis as the person who instigated this, all these events that took place?

The prosecution should have taken into consideration what the families are going to be going through but they didn`t. They chose to prosecute this based on ego.

And I disagree with your guest. I don`t think this is a strong case for the prosecution. How many times should you have had convictions in O.J., Casey Anthony and it didn`t happen because of overzealous prosecutors.

LEIBERMAN: This is different. This is so different.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan Rose -- Jordan Rose, attorney in Phoenix.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: No way. I mean, this is a great case. They`ve put on, the prosecution, has made a great case. The defense in their first appearance, right? After a week-long break, they should have come out with just a bang of a defense. And it was, I mean, it was a pitiful whimper. They`ve shown that Travis is maybe a flirt and he`s 20- something-year-old boy. And this woman preys upon these guys because she flaunts her sexuality even in that interview with the detective where she is stretching yoga poses. She looks like a feline. That`s her thing.

So no, absolutely not, this is a great case for the prosecution. And we`re going to see her put to death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s not -- a pitiful whimper of a case -- go ahead.

SANAN: when you have the defense showing exact opposite of the type of person that Jodi is.

LEIBERMAN: This isn`t a case about sex though. This is a murder.

ROSE: It doesn`t matter if she was -- if he was a flirt. If he dropped, if she dropped his camera in the bathroom while he was naked in a shower, and somehow that caused her, he got so enraged that she had to use deadly force, that was what was reasonable in that situation. She had to use deadly force to defend herself -- that`s ridiculous.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me get back to what I think is the strategy here. And I`m not condoning it. Don`t blame the messenger. But I`m looking at the big picture. All these mega cases always break new ground, right? I mean O.J. Simpson, oh, you know, garbage in, garbage out. You`ve got overwhelming forensic evidence? Just tell the jurors that everything that was collected was collected in a sloppy manner. Therefore you have to discard it.

In this case I think they`re going to make the leap between a woman who was being pummeled which we have no evidence that that happened in this case. But a woman who is being in some way what they claim is forced to be involved in sexually degrading games.

And that`s why I want to bring Marjorie Gilberg, executive director of Break the Cycle Back. You fight domestic violence. There are some domestic violence survivors who are saying this is making a mockery of real domestic violence. What do you say?

MARJORIE GILBERG, EXEC. DIRECTOR, BREAK THE CYCLE BACK: Well, I think that there is a whole range of behaviors that are abusive and to discount one over another or to say that one is more dangerous, you know, obviously, physical harm can lead to much more serious physical injury. But emotional harm can be lasting and damaging and very severe as well. And sexual abuse is not something to scoff at.

There is a huge difference between two people having, you know, some sort of fun, sexual adventure and being sexually controlled and forced to do things they don`t want to do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But this is my point. If they are two consenting adults engaged in these sex games and we`ve the litany. I can`t even repeat some of them. But she`s wearing pig tails at one -- that`s like an innocent one where she`s in a maybe role-playing situation and he made a T-shirt for her that says "Travis Alexander`s" like she is his property.

Where does personal responsibility come in where somebody can say, "I don`t want to play this game, hasta la vista, baby -- I`m out of here"? I mean where is the response of "I decline to participate" as opposed "I`m feeling degraded. Therefore I`m going to kill him."

And I`ll toss that to you, Jon.

LEIBERMAN: If she was so degraded and if this was self-defense, why did not she say that off the bat? Why did it take her three or four incarnations of the story to say that? Why did she write in her journal that she would name her kid Alexander? Why did she go to the memorial service, post online how much she loved Travis, how he was a wonderful man knowing full well that she had killed him and never once, not once mentioned anything about being degraded.

And look, I sit on the National Board of the Domestic Violence registry. I know what victims go through. She is not a victim of domestic violence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But I think everybody gets my point. It is almost like a shell game. You take real domestic violence and you move it and you put this emotional kinky sexual abuse -- I`m not applauding that -- but I`m saying as an adult female, she and all adult females, have the ability to say I will not participate, presumably.

More on the other side. A fascinating debate, isn`t it?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were called to testify on Miss Arias`s behalf, would you be happy about that?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because she murdered my friend in cold blood.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: On day one of the defense case, fireworks in court and we are inside the inner circle of Travis Alexander, the victim, and the defendant, Jodi Arias. On the other side of the break, we are going to talk to a close friend and try to understand, what make this woman tick?



ARIAS: He lamented a lot that he got a lot of grief from his friends about the amount of time that we spent together.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They did not like you.

ARIAS: I don`t know that it was so much that. I think they were more concerned with his future prospects for marriage.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re very delighted right now to have an exclusive guest with us on the phone, Veronica, a friend of Jodi Arias or at least somebody who worked with Jodi Arias as a waitress. Veronica, first of all, thank you so much for joining us. Tell us a little about when you work with Jodi. I don`t want to have you reveal any more than you want but what year and what sort of work you were doing. I understand waitressing. Set the story for us.

VERONICA, FRIEND OF JODI ARIAS (via telephone): Yes, Jane, if I may call you that. Thank you so much.


VERONICA: I work with Jodi, I believe, I don`t have exact times and dates but it was 2008. That`s when we hire, during the busy season we hire usually in November, December. And they train them and then they get on the floor. So it was `08 during the busy season, during the winter time into spring. She was only there for four to five months.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Desert Hot Springs? Palm desert?

VERONICA: This restaurant was located in Rancho Mirage, California. She had told me that she was part owner of a house in Palm Desert Country Club, in Palm Desert.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So tell us about her. What about her struck you? If you had to analyze her, tell us, what would you tell your friend? Ok, this woman Jodi Arias is here working. Here`s what I take away. Veronica -- are you there?

VERONICA: Yes, ma`am. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Give us your analysis, your interpretation of Jodi`s personality. What made her tick? What did you notice about her?

VERONICA: Correct. When you first meet Jodi, she come off as very soft-spoken, very quiet. No bombshell. She is no great looker; I mean she is a pretty gal but she`s nothing memorable. But she is very soft-spoken when you get to know her in your first meeting.

And then as time goes on -- the tidbits of her not wanting to come on to the floor because she can`t get Travis on the phone in the parking lot while she`s in her car; or else she`s talking to Travis and she will not hang up that phone and go to work. I mean she was a mess -- a hot mess. It was all about Travis. That was the one she wanted. She had to have him.

And it was these things that piss people off at the job. You know, we would have to pick up her tables for her because she wouldn`t come in. You know, and then as time went on we saw that she was creepy. You know as people have said before, Jane, there was no soul in her eyes. They were black. Black as coal these eyes. And she gave the heebie-jeebies to people.

And I just kind of concluded, you know, I knew she was struggling, being a waitress. She just didn`t know what she was doing too much. She wasn`t a dummy, she wasn`t stupid, she just couldn`t keep up the pace.

And I would help her and people would say why are you helping her? She is weird. And I would say, no, this is a business, you know, team work. And then as time went on and after the cat incident -- I stopped taking his calls --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What cat incident? What cat incident?

VERONICA: Ok. We had a lead singer at the restaurant. His first name was Guy. I don`t know his last name though. And Guy was getting married to a gal who was allergic to cats. Guy had a cat he had had for six long years. He loved his cat. And he came to me because I was doing animal rescue at that time during the day --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good for you.

VERONICA: And he said, "Veronica dark can you please help me find a place for this cat, at least while I go on my honeymoon." I asked around and Jodi came up to me and she said "Veronica, I`ll take the cat." Great, Jodi. Ok. Set it up, he dropped the cat off to her.

Well, two weeks later, a couple of weeks later, Jodi comes up to me and said "Veronica, you know, something funny happened when I go to retrieve the cat after two weeks." I said "What do you mean two weeks? What are you talking about?" She said, "Well, I left it in the room with plenty of water and food, of course, but for two weeks. When I went to go take the cat to the Humane Society because Guy doesn`t want it, the cat was shaking, Veronica. Violently shaking and I guess I should have felt bad."

Oh. Oh, Jane. I just came unglued. I wanted to -- I wanted to just strangle this girl. I was furious at what she had done to an innocent animal. And she didn`t have remorse Jane. She showed no remorse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Veronica, stand by. What you`ve told me is to me the deepest insight into her soul. People who have no empathy for animals -- I run the other way.

More on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We just heard this extraordinary story from Veronica who worked with Jodi when Jodi was a waitress about how she was obsessed with Travis and that she showed no empathy and basically stuck a cat in a room for two weeks without any companionship which, to me, is torturing an animal. By the way, we found out the cat`s ok. The cat survived.

Jean Casarez, correspondent "In Session" there in phoenix, when I hear a story like that, that`s more compelling than some of the prosecution evidence that I`ve heard. You`ve got to wonder why not put a woman like that on the stand to tell what she knows about Jodi`s obsession with Travis and her lack of empathy.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT "IN SESSION": Here`s something the jury did hear during one of the interrogations with Detective Flores. He asked her, have you done anything violent in your past? And she said, "I did kick a dog in the head." She admitted to that. So there`s another instance right there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and we know, Jon Leiberman, people who abuse animals are often sociopaths or psychopaths. Some of the serial killers that we`ve covered almost all of them start abusing animals.

LEIBERMAN: It does. It escalates. I mean the research shows it clearly escalates. It starts with animals and it oftentimes graduates to violence against people.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Jordan Rose, oftentimes the obvious witnesses that when you hear a human story like that, what`s a good reason why the prosecution wouldn`t call this Veronica to testify?

ROSE: You know actually, Jane, I was thinking the same thing when I was listening to her. They need that woman. They need more of those people who talk about how Jodi had these crazy intentions and crazy things that no one else would leave a cat for two weeks without food. I mean, Jodi is almost like a praying mantis at this point where instead of biting off the head of, you know, the perpetrator, she stabs him.

And I think you guys found a great, great prosecution witness. They probably wish they had her on the stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, maybe if they watch the show, they`ll call her. Veronica, we`re going to talk to you on the other side.


ARIAS: I didn`t commit a murder. I didn`t hurt Travis. I would never hurt Travis. I would never harm him physically.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was this self-defense?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would have forced Jodi? It was Travis` continual abuse. And on June 4 of 2008, it had reached a point of no return.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re back with Veronica. What did Jodi tell you about Travis, Veronica?

VERONICA: That Travis was her one and only love. She had this whole life planned out with him with children and the white picket fence and forever and all eternity. This was the only man she would ever be with. Scary as Arias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she wanted to marry him?

VERONICA: Marry him? More than marry him. She wanted to be him. She wanted to possess him. She wanted to know every breath he took.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Obsession -- that`s what it sounds like.

Nancy`s in Arizona.

Thank Veronica.



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Jodi Arias Defense Opens

Aired January 29, 2013 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet on a work trip in Vegas and fall hard. But when the flame burns out, they break up. But it`s then she moves 300 miles to chase him, even converting to Mormonism.

But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped over dead in the shower of his home, shot, stabbed 29 times. And just hours after she admittedly stabbed him to death, she`s literally hopping on top of a brand- new boyfriend. Twenty-seven-year-old Arias has wild sex with Travis all day, even photographing the sex, but just minutes after sex, slashes his throat from ear to ear.

Bombshell tonight. We are live here in Phoenix, Arizona. The defense kicks off its case with Jodi Arias`s lover on the stand. But it backfires. He reveals under oath Arias takes multiple gas cans on her trip to visit Travis. For what? To burn the evidence?

And tonight, we learn Arias anything but bored behind jailhouse bars. She`s got a girlfriend!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know Jodi because we were in love.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did your sex life with Jodi Arias involve wearing women`s underwear?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember the first time you and she had sex, though, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do remember, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she was very aggressive, wasn`t she.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were both aggressive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve putting her in schoolgirl outfits and pigtails?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was pretty aggressive. Do you remember saying anything about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not recall saying that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on her face?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve calling her a whore?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A three-hole wonder?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was always taking photographs, period.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was one incident in the shower where she took a picture, yes, once.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she took a picture of you while were you in the shower, right?



GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. We are live here in Phoenix, Arizona, camped out right in front of the courthouse. The defense finally kicks off its case with Jodi Arias`s lover on the stand. But it backfires. The lover reveals Arias takes multiple gas cans with her on her trip to see Travis. But for what? To burn the evidence?

And tonight, we learn Arias anything but bored behind jailhouse bars. Arias has a girlfriend!

Straight out to Jean Casarez, joining me here at the courthouse. She`s been in court all day long. First of all, I want to talk with the defense kicking off with Arias`s lover, her former lover. And it seems to backfire when he starts talking about gas cans.

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, I have to wonder whether the defense regrets putting him on the stand. But on direct examination, the defense was trying to show that this was the real Jodi, someone who was loving, who was kind, who wasn`t jealous and who wasn`t violent.

But then on the cross-examination, we learn she wanted gas cans right before she started her trip to Mesa.

GRACE: And isn`t it true, Matt Zarrell, that she actually got testy when the former lover says, Why do you need so many gas cans? Why are you taking them on a trip?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, in fact, Nancy, prosecutor Juan Martinez made a point of asking repeatedly that Arias got very upset when Brewer challenged Arias about why she wanted these gas cans -- these gas cans, by the way, that she never returned, that she borrowed within less than 24 hours from arriving at Travis Alexander`s home.

GRACE: OK. Let`s take a listen to what happened in court in the last hours. This is a bombshell. And remember, this is the witness that the defense themselves has brought on. They brought on yet another one of Jodi Arias`s lovers. I don`t know how much it really helped them. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was asking you for gas cans in May of 2008, at the very end, so that she could make a trip to Mesa, Arizona. Do you remember that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she made more than one call asking you for these gas cans to make a trip to Arizona, didn`t she.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fact, in the first part of June of 2008, she called you again asking about these gas cans to go to Mesa, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And during the first time that she brought up this issue, in the end of May of 2008, you asked her, Why do you need these gas cans? Do you remember asking her that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she got really testy with you, didn`t she.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not necessarily testy. She said she needed them. She was taking a long trip.


GRACE: I`ve got to tell you, she really does not translate on the television the way she appears in the courtroom. I have just left the courtroom before I came and sat down right here, and she looks much more frail, more pitiful looking. She looks very demure.

She`s constantly pushing her glasses up. She never really looks up. She looks down all the time. Today she was wearing a kind of a sky, periwinkle blue. She looked very demure, very timid. Of course, she had her seat screwed down really low so she looks even shorter than the female lawyer sitting beside her.

And I noticed also, Jean, that when I believe it was Chris Hughes was on the stand, the defense lawyer was having trouble with him regarding an e-mail exchange he had with Travis Alexander. He was getting very combative with Chris Hughes, who I think he plans to call as his own witness.

CASAREZ: That`s right. And that wasn`t even supposed to be part of the hearing because the jury wasn`t present for this. But Chris Hughes sort of opened the door, and so suddenly, the defense gets a dress rehearsal of what he`s going to call and ask him in front of the jury, which was an e-mail that he sent to Travis saying, you know, Just leave her alone. Let her go on in life because you`re not treating her well, and you don`t want to marry her, so just move on.

GRACE: You know, I noticed that the defense was getting combative with Chris Hughes on the stand. That`s never a good sign when your own witness -- when you and your own witness are fighting.

But I got to say I was very surprised with her appearance in the courtroom when I see her in the flesh, as opposed to the way she comes across on TV.

For those of you just joining us, the defense in the last hours has kicked off its case in the Jodi Arias murder one trial, this on the heels of us learning in the last 24 hours that she wanted to plead guilty to murder two. She begged to plead guilty to murder two, swearing under oath that she killed Travis Alexander, that she murdered Travis Alexander.

But when the state refused murder two, would only agree to murder one, suddenly, her defense changed, the truth changed to self-defense.

We are here camped outside the courthouse, and we`re taking your calls. Out to the lines. I believe I`ve got Jimmy in Maryland. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing? Love the show. My question is...

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is what`d she do that`s so horrific? There`s not any other indication or evidence she ever done anything like this before in the past?

GRACE: You mean ever murdered somebody, Jimmy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, as far as being violent, any violent action.

GRACE: You know, that`s interesting that you would ask that because we have evidence dating back to the time that she was just 5 years old that she took a baseball bat to her little brother and beat him in the head with it, OK?

I think that`s compelling. I mean, my twins are 5 years old and they bicker back and forth, but to this date, one has not taken a baseball bat and hit the other in the head.

Now, do I have evidence that she`s murdered somebody else? No. But I think -- and I`m going to go out to Caryn Stark, psychologist, joining me. And go ahead, let`s bring in the lawyers, too. Unleash Randy Kessler, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney in Atlanta, along with Caryn Stark, psychologist in New York.

Caryn, the fact that she beat her little brother in the head with a baseball bat, that`s violent, but then not murdering somebody but slashing the tires, not only of him, of his tires, but the girlfriend`s tires, too, then slashing his tires again, stalking the new people he was dating, sending them scary e-mails that are absolutely traced back to her, hacking into his e-mail and bank account -- it`s proven that she did that. I find those to be acts of violence.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: They are certainly acts of violence. They`re acts of aggression, Nancy. And this is a very aggressive person. When you see that she bashed her baby brother over the head, you are looking, when you`re talking about a psychopath, to see early behavior indicative of violence. And that is not the norm, ever.

GRACE: You know, out to you, Jean Casarez, what was the purpose of putting the lover on the stand when it totally backfired with the gas cans? She was planning to burn the evidence, possibly even the body.

CASAREZ: Or maybe with those gas cans, she did two fill-ups in Pasadena, California, one to get her to Mesa. The gas cans got her to Salt Lake so there would be no evidence, no record at all that she went to Mesa. That`s called premeditation, as you know, Nancy. Now your other question was what?

GRACE: I was asking about why they even put the lover on the stand to start with.

CASAREZ: Yes. I think -- I think to portray her as a victim, that this was a normal relationship, and then once she became under the control, as a victim of Travis Alexander, she became a totally different person.

GRACE: I don`t know if I`m buying into it. Unleash the lawyers again. I`ve got Randy Kessler, veteran trial lawyer, veteran defense attorney Renee Rockwell.

All right, Renee, it doesn`t bode well when you kick off your case with yet another lover -- not that there`s anything wrong with that. I`m not the church lady. I don`t care who she sleeps with.

But when you bring a parade of lovers in front of a jury and then you bring all the pornographic photos of her vagina and her booty -- and I will say no more -- at a certain point when the jury hears all this, it`s really going to be hard for them to believe that she has somehow been taken advantage of. And then the lover blurts out that she got all these gas cans.

I mean, Renee, you go on a long trip to Louisiana all the time. I`ve never once known you to put six or seven gas cans full of gas in your trunk.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, obviously, it shows premeditation. But one thing you have to remember is if she`s a battered woman, the premeditation is all part of it. She feels helpless. She feels like she can`t get out of the relationship.

GRACE: Put her up, please!

ROCKWELL: And premeditation is allowed when you`re using a battered woman`s defense or battered person`s defense.

GRACE: OK. Just hold on.

ROCKWELL: So she thinks she cannot get out of the relationship...

GRACE: Before we go so far out on that limb we can`t get back to the tree, Jean Casarez, how far away from Travis Alexander had she moved? How many hundreds of miles?

CASAREZ: She moved from Palm Desert, California, to Mesa, which is about eight hours away, and that was after they broke up. That`s when she moved to be so very close to him.

GRACE: OK. So Randy Kessler, she lives eight hours away. She is pursuing him. She is driving 1,000 miles to get to him. So please explain to me how does she feel that he was controlling her and she couldn`t get away? She moved away. She`s the one chasing him.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, geographic distance does not keep someone from controlling somebody. If she felt controlled, she has the right to feel the way she felt. The question is not...

GRACE: Put him up!

KESSLER: -- how did she do it. This is not a question did she kill him, it`s a question of...

GRACE: Put him up!

KESSLER: It`s not even a question of why she killed him, it`s a question can we now humanize her? She`s been portrayed as...

GRACE: I`m ordering a psych. I`m ordering a psych exam on the two of you.


GRACE: Here you see this girl slashing his tires. He`s not slashing her tires. She`s calling all the women that he dates and basically threatening them. She is not a battered woman. If anything, he`s the one that`s feeling manipulated, not her.

ROCKWELL: Nancy, they`re trying to save her life. It`s not a guilt/innocence. But this is a mental defense.

GRACE: You mean truth?

ROCKWELL: This is a death penalty case. They`re trying to save her life.

GRACE: Oh, so that makes it OK that they`re lying, they`re lying!



GRACE: As we touch down and make our way to the jail tonight...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can get reading material on our library.

GRACE: I doubt pretty seriously they`re spending a lot of time...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how crisp and clean that is and how...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we make up our own games. We play charades or we, you know, play Twister. Not really much we can do.

GRACE: It smells like elementary school in here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two meals a day here. The first one will be a cold sack. So this one has peanut butter, bread, citrus and a snack.

GRACE: It`s good stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fresh baked bread every day.

GRACE: Do they get this every single day, the same thing for lunch?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five days a week is peanut butter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, we don`t really have any -- I mean, we have family, but we have to become family in here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re all in jail. I`m sure they`re not happy being in jail, so naturally, they`re going to support their fellow inmate.


GRACE: We are camped out right in front of the courthouse. And let me tell you, it`s three three-ring circus going on in that courtroom. No matter what happens, Arias sits there all bent over and looking down, far from the sexy blond bombshell image that she projected when she got Travis Alexander hook, line and sinker.

The defense kicked can off today with her former lover, but it all backfired when he says that she borrowed multiple gas cans to take with her full of gas on her trip to see Travis Alexander. For what? To burn the evidence, or as Jean Casarez has theorized, so she wouldn`t have to stop for gas? There would be no trace of her having been around Travis Alexander. That lengthens the time of premeditation.

We are taking your calls, but you just saw that video of us behind bars all day yesterday talking to inmates, talking to jailhouse officials.

And this was one bombshell that we learned. Jodi Arias is anything but bored behind bars. In fact, she`s got a girlfriend, according to sources that we found yesterday.

Matt Zarrell, why is that significant?

ZARRELL: Well, because I think part of it, Nancy, Arias has the ability to charm her way into any relationship and charm her way out of any relationship. And again, we see here a source close to Arias telling us she has charmed again into another relationship, but this time with the same sex, with a female.


GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are camped out here in front of the courthouse. We`ve all just come out of the courtroom a couple hours ago.

A lot going on in the courtroom today. The defense kicks off its case, but it was with a sputter. They bring on Arias`s former lover on the stand, who admits, one, that she was aggressive toward him during sex, and two, that she insisted on taking multiple gas cans with her to visit Travis Alexander. For what, to burn the evidence?

We also learned yesterday during our sojourn behind bars at the Maricopa County courthouse that Arias is far from bored. She`s got a girlfriend from behind bars.

Interesting about that. Matt Zarrell was describing meeting people, charming them, always somehow to use them in one way or another.

Back to Jean Casarez. On the stand today, Brewer describing her being aggressive during sex. How did he feel about continuing to pay part of the mortgage and all of the utility bills when Arias could no longer pay for them?

CASAREZ: He didn`t act like it bothered him. But the timeline is very interesting here. They meet in 2001. They start to date. They move in together. And in 2006- remember, she meets Travis June of 2006. Well, after that, the Mormon missionaries started coming to their home in Palm Desert. She then totally changed, saying, no more cussing. We can`t have sex because I`m saving myself for marriage. She got breast implants during that time. And then by fall 2006, they basically had broken up.

GRACE: Now wait a minute. When the Mormon missionaries started coming around the same time as the breast implants, had she already met Travis Alexander?

CASAREZ: Yes. She met him in June 2006, according to opening statements.

GRACE: So bottom line, Jean, she leaves Brewer because she meets Travis Alexander, and immediately after living with Brewer for a period of years, suddenly announced she`s, quote, "saving" herself for her husband. OK. I didn`t know that that was, you know, a renewable resource.

We are taking your calls. Out to Tony in Colorado. Hi, Tony. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Hi, Nancy. Great show. I have a question...

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks. Was Jodi an active member in the church? I know she lived out in California. Was she -- you know, was she a member there? You know, was she -- was she...

GRACE: You mean, was she a Mormon there? Let`s find out. Out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter,

Mormonism has taken center stage in this case. What do we know? When did she become a Mormon?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Right after she met Travis. In fact, it`s because of Travis that she became a Mormon. And as her ex- boyfriend said on the stand today, she really wasn`t religious before that. You know, they spoke about spirituality but nothing else.

As soon as she met Travis, found out he was a Mormon, she converted.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I met Jodi in the fall of 2001. I was employed as a food and beverage director at Ventani (ph) Inn and Spa in Big Sur, and Jodi came as an applicant applying for a job as a server.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did she present herself during her interview with you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outstanding. She was on time. She interviewed well. She was dressed appropriately.


GRACE: We are live here outside the courthouse as the defense kicks off its case in the defense of Jodi Arias, charged with murder one in the stabbing and shooting death of her lover, Travis Alexander.

A lot of tears in the courtroom today that I observed. I observed not only that, but Jodi Arias appearing very meek and mild and demure, all hunched down, looking frail and pitiful beside her female defense lawyer. I don`t know if the jury is going to believe that.

One of the first witnesses on the stand by the defense, her former lover. I want to go to Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session," in court today, along with Jean Casarez.

Beth, I don`t think that the lover helped that much, and neither did Searcy.

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION (via phone): Well, you know what he did, Nancy? She`s never been violent and you know, he certainly brought up that they had a premarital sexual relationship but that she changed. He said she changed a lot in the fall of 2006 when she started becoming a Mormon. So that part didn`t help so much because he said she started to become very irresponsible and she wasn`t paying the household expenses and she just was becoming a very different person.

Now the defense may turn that around and say that`s because Travis Alexander entered her life and he is the one who was changing her. So that`s what the defense may do with that.

GRACE: OK, wait a minute. Wait a minute, Beth. Wait a minute, Beth. So Travis Alexander is the reason Jodi Arias was not paying her bills and was having her lover pay all her bills?

You know, to me, it`s just another example of Arias using yet another man. You mean this guy still hasn`t figured out that he got used?

KARAS: Yes, well, they may be making that argument, Nancy, because she was getting involved with prepaid legal and Travis was, you know, a big factor in that. And prepaid legal was making her believe, at least this is what the defense seems to be saying, that she was going to get her fortune, find fortune with the company if she worked hard.

But she really never made very much money at all selling this legal insurance. So it didn`t really work out for her, but I think the defense will say she was kind of under Travis Alexander`s spell, that she never exhibited any violent behavior, anything like what she`s being accused of in this case and admits to, by the way, of course. Admits to.

GRACE: Beth, you`re cutting out on me.

Let me go back to you, Jean, while I get Beth`s satellite straight.

Jean, bottom line, the lover says that she was aggressive during sex with him, that she welched on money she owed, and this went on for a period of months that he carried the mortgage, he paid all the bills. Basically she was living with him while she was dating -- and I`ll put that euphemistically -- Travis Alexander. So we see her using yet another guy and then the gas can information came in.

What about Searcy? There`s something about him that doesn`t all fit together for me, Jean. What was the point of Gus Searcy`s testimony?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, this was the first witness for the defense out of the box, and I think the defense wanted to set the standard that she was a conservative girl. Every time he saw her, she had high necks and long sleeves. She was quiet. She wasn`t violent. They`re just trying to show that contrast before she started being abused --

GRACE: That doesn`t even make sense.

CASAREZ: -- they say by Travis.

GRACE: I mean, Jean, Jean -- let me see Jean, please.

Jean, I appreciate Gus Searcy saying that she dressed conservatively but he only saw her, like, four or five times and all of those but one it was a work related function. I mean, Jean, every time I see you, you`re dressed up to the nose. You`ve got a turtleneck up to your eyebrows. How do I know that you don`t wear mini skirts and stripper boots when I`m not with you? How does he know?

CASAREZ: Well, let me -- let me tell you this, OK. Gus Searcy is in his motor home in Las Vegas. She moves from Mesa.


CASAREZ: She goes to Gus Searcy in Las Vegas. She`s there. And they`re sitting on the sofa, she gets a phone call. It`s Travis. She goes outside, 40 minutes later, comes in, is crying and a shaken mess.

The defense is trying to show she`s trying to move away, who calls her? Travis. She didn`t call Travis, he calls her. They`re trying to show once again through this witness that she is under his control.

GRACE: You know what, Jean, that was very wise of them to do that, but if I were the prosecution here I would argue to the jury, how do I know that he wasn`t calling her and saying, listen, this is the last time. I`m warning you, you leave me alone and quit calling my girlfriend? How do I know that`s not what he said on the other end of the phone?

CASAREZ: That`s a good point. It was not brought out on cross- examination, though.

GRACE: Uh-oh. Well, that`s a seed that needs to be planted if the prosecution wants to win this case.

Everybody, we are taking your calls. Out to Laura in Idaho.

Hi, Laura. What`s your question?

LAURA, CALLER FROM IDAHO: Hi, Nancy. I love your show and I love you, and your children are just so precious, and thank you are for all that you do.

GRACE: Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

LAURA: I`m just -- the thought of what she could have had in her mind with those gas cans is so frightening to me because we know she had not good plans with that. But I was just wondering we`ve heard about the one boyfriend she went in and race to after she did murder this one and I`ve not heard of the new one, the 50-something-year-old man.

How -- I`m just curious, when did they decide to bring him in and is he --

GRACE: You`re talking about Gus Searcy?

LAURA: Yes. Is he someone they`re trying --

GRACE: OK. Gus Searcy I don`t think ever -- I don`t think he ever dated her. Gus Searcy. Now they brought in Brewer who was her former boyfriend, her former lover, that she was living with when she started dating Travis Alexander. He wasn`t in his 50s. Gus Searcy is in his 50s. They did not date. It was a professional relationship. I believe he even was with her on four occasions.

They were all work related except one when she stopped by his motor home on her way when she was moving. I think they brought him on largely because he witnessed this conversation that allegedly was with Travis Alexander, the murder victim, in which she started crying. We don`t know really what happened on that phone conversation. I think that was the purpose of his testimony.

Everybody, we are taking your calls but joining me right now is Jensen Clifford, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander.

Jensen, thank you for being with us.

JENSEN CLIFFORD, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Thank you for having me, Nancy. It`s wonderful to be here.

GRACE: Jensen, question. I know that you and Travis Alexander were very, very dear friends. What, if anything, did you know about Jodi Arias?

CLIFFORD: Yes, Travis and I were good friends. I had actually -- and it`s very possible I met him after him and Jodi were together. But I never heard her or never heard about her. I never met her.

GRACE: So even in light of your relationship with Travis, he did not loop you in on Jodi Arias. I wonder why. I find that very, very interesting.

CLIFFORD: I find it interesting, too. The first time I ever heard her name was when -- was after the murder. I`ve known -- I`ve heard since then that other friends who had known Travis longer than me had said, yes, we`ve heard of her or we knew her, this and that, but I personally had never heard of her. And I met him in 2006 --
GRACE: That`s really interesting.


GRACE: That`s really interesting.

Everybody, also taking your calls, Jensen Clifford, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander. But he never introduced him. He never mentioned her to him. Why?

As we go to break, everybody, we are here outside the phoenix courthouse bringing you the very latest. But I want to tell you the "Family Album" is back with your photos from iReporting tonight.

Here are our Oklahoma friends, the Whistlers. They love the movies, the OKC Thunder, and the OU football.

Share photos through iReport family album at Then just click on "Nancy`s Family Album."



GRACE: This is one of the locations where Jodi Arias has her rec time every day, and I imagine that this is where she mulls what her new defense is going to be. Gets a little sun out here. Gets tanned, rested and relaxed to go back into court.

So we`ve often wondered where she gets her ideas of her various defense theories. Here you have it. This is where the magic happens for Jodi Arias.


GRACE: We are taking your calls here in Phoenix, Arizona. Joining me right now, Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation.

You know, Marc, I don`t know if you`re familiar with this or not, but I have gotten my hands on some of Jodi Arias` doodles, as they`re euphemistically called. This one is of Snow White. We know that her expert -- I think it`s Alyce LaViolette -- has a speech that she gives, was Snow White a battered woman? Which really tends to lessen her credibility. But these doodles, courtroom doodle drawings are going for nearly $2,000, Marc.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Nancy, this kind of activity is called murderabilia. And it`s a subgenre of collectibles associated with and produced by criminals and other violent criminals. It has absolutely no intrinsic value whatsoever beyond the fact that it was created by killers. Therefore, all the profits realized from the sale of murderabilia which incidentally goes to the seller and to the murderer and their family is based on the crime and the publicity generated by the crime.

So I think the bottom line is, you shouldn`t be able to rob, rape, and murder, and then turn around and make a buck from it.

GRACE: You know, Marc, I was very put off when I saw that these are online on eBay for sale and they`re actually fetching a pretty penny.

I want to go back to Jensen Clifford, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander`s.

Jensen, you knew Travis through the church, correct?

CLIFFORD: Yes, yes. We were in the same ward together.

GRACE: What do you make of Arias` claim that Travis Alexander beat her?

CLIFFORD: It is honestly the most ridiculous thing. I have never known a more levelheaded, calm, mature man. The first time I heard that he had beat her, I thought, are you -- are you kidding me? That`s not possible. He -- if there was any kind of confrontation that he needed to have with someone, it was never even a confrontation. It was him explaining, saying very calmly, you know, let`s understand this together and let`s work out this problem.

There was -- I`ve never seen him fly off the handle or even get overly emotional or overly angry. To me it`s ridiculous that he would -- just the thought of him abusing somebody.

GRACE: And, you know, to Dr. Vincent Dimaio, former chief medical examiner, Bexar County, joining me out of San Antonio.

Dr. Dimaio, here`s the deal. He gets 29 stab wounds and a shot to the head including nine stabs to the back? And she has a couple of scratches on her hands. Sounds like she`s the aggressor. I mean, if she was getting beaten, wouldn`t there be more than that? Why is he dead and she has -- she has a couple of scratches on her fingers. That`s it. How can that be self-defense? I don`t believe it.

DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, M.D., FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BEXAR COUNTY, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It doesn`t make any sense. He`s had very severe, vicious attack. He was attacked from the front and probably initially. Then he was stabbed multiple times in the back, turned over, his throat cut, and then shot because, you know, the shot -- the gunshot looks like the last injury incurred.

And why would you cut a person`s throat and then throw them on to their front and then stab them multiple times in the back? So I think the last two things were the cutthroat and gunshot wound. And he had defense wounds.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you remember seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Miss Arias as a, quote, "three-hole wonder"?






UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve calling her a whore?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A three-hole wonder?



GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to first go to Caryn Stark, and unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Renee Rockwell, and Caryn Stark.

You know, we learned yesterday behind bars that Jodi Arias now has a girlfriend in the jailhouse. It seems as if every person she is with ends up getting used, Caryn Stark, so what is the purpose of a girlfriend behind bars?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Just to keep her company, to have companionship, Nancy. She really does take advantage of people and doesn`t have sincere feelings. And I wanted to say about that whole experience with the ex-lover, her taking pictures of him in the shower is something that she did of Travis, so it`s obviously she has a penchant for that.

GRACE: Interesting, you know, he says she took pictures of him in the shower, that she was aggressive during sex, he was paying all of her bills while she was dating somebody else, and when they asked him, how do you know Jodi Arias, he says, we were in love. So apparently she`s still working her Mojo on him, even with a murder charge staring her in the face.

To Kessler and Rockwell. All right. First to you, Randy Kessler. I just don`t see how logistically this could be self-defense. The last sex photo was taken about 50 seconds before Travis Alexander sustained the first wound, the first slice? Where would she get the weapons in the bathroom? In 50 seconds?

She`d have to be beaten up, run to the kitchen, get a knife and come back to the bathroom? I don`t get it. She had to be carrying the weapons on her, which shows premeditation. That defeats a self-defense claim.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think -- I don`t think her lawyers really think that she can commit the jury with self-defense. That`s something for the jury to hang her hat on. It`s going to come down to her testifying, if she can make herself likeable or if the -- if the prosecution angers her and makes her the victim, the jury can say self- defense.

GRACE: And to the New York control room that insists on showing all the naked photos of Jodi Arias, it`s irrelevant to what we`re talking about right now so you can stop.

All right. Renee, is she going to take the stand?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She has to take the stand, Nancy. We`re trying to save her life as defense attorneys. That`s the plan. She has to take the stand.


GRACE: We remember American hero, Army First Lieutenant Salvatore Corma II, 24, Wynona, New Jersey, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal. Mother Trudy, sisters Rose and Donna.

Salvatore Corma II. American hero.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can just arrest you and throw you in jail, but I want to know why. Why did you do this to him?

JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I wouldn`t hurt Travis. He`s done so much for me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now you`re kind of in the main --


GRACE: Out to the lines. Irma, Arizona. Hi, Irma, what`s your question?

IRMA, CALLER FROM ARIZONA: Nancy, I`ve got a bunch, but I want to know why this girl thinks that Travis is such a threat to her in the shower? He`s got his back to her in the pictures, he`s got his eyes closed, he just looks relaxed. I don`t see how threatening that could be. But I also wanted to know if --

GRACE: Irma -- keep Irma, keep Irma with me. That`s your -- that`s not your question? All right. Go ahead, what`s your question, dear?

IRMA: But there`s more to it, I mean, I`m just wondering, are they going to put the new girlfriend Lisa on the stand, and Lisa is the new girlfriend that Travis was supposed to go to Mexico with? I wonder if she ever had any contact with Jodi, if Jodi ever called her. I mean, just one of the --

GRACE: I believe, as a matter of fact, that they did.

Out to senior reporter with Alexis Tereszcuk is with us. The new girlfriend Lisa is actually on the defense witness list. The state was going to call her and didn`t. What do you make of it? Are they going to call her? I think she could be damning for the defense.

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: I think you`re absolutely right, Nancy. They are going to call her. The only thing that she can say is that Travis did not show up because he was supposed to go on a trip with her because Jodi murdered him.
There`s really -- there was no reason for the prosecution to put her on the stand, she had nothing to do with anything. She`s another victim of Jodi`s. But the defense, I`m not really sure why they`re doing it. It doesn`t seem like they have her as somebody who would give information that could help Jodi. She`s probably somebody that they`re just fishing for with the rest of them.

GRACE: Well, I can shed some light on that, Alexis. Whenever I would have a witness that I ended up not using when I was prosecuting, the defense would immediately think, oh, there must be some nefarious reason the state is not using the witness. We`ll call them. There must be something there for us if the state doesn`t want them.

That could be a simple answer. But I would be very careful about calling her to the stand if I were the defense because who knows what bombshell she may have. For all I know, Jodi Arias may have threatened her, too, Alexis.

Everybody, right now, a special good night from Arizona and Missouri friends, Danielle and Colleen. Aren`t they beautiful?

"DR. DREW" is up next, but I`ll see you tomorrow night right here from the courthouse, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.



  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
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