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Author Topic: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial  (Read 1149627 times)
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« Reply #140 on: February 05, 2013, 09:21:45 AM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/04/ijvm.01.html
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Jodi Arias Takes Stand in Her Defense;
Gunman Killed, Boy Rescued from Bunker

Aired February 4, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: An astounding day in court. Jodi Arias suddenly takes the stand in her own defense. Was this a brilliant move by the defense or will it back fire? And did Jodi`s testimony reveal any secrets from her past that would explain why she lashed out and slaughtered Travis Alexander? Will the jury buy her claims of self-defense?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, a stunned packed courtroom watches in disbelief as Jodi Arias suddenly takes the stand in her own defense. Jodi reveals the astounding secret as to why she didn`t think any jury would ever convict her. Did she have plans to commit suicide?

Plus, shades of Casey Anthony. Arias says she was beaten on a regular basis by her mother and father as a child. Is she laying out a battered woman defense?
 ::snipping2::
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Arias, you may come forward and take a seat, please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me and I defended myself.

Until about age 7 it was a fairly ideal childhood. That is when my dad started using the belt.

He didn`t leave welts (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Physically or emotionally?

ARIAS: Both. My dad would get rougher and rougher. He would just shove me into furniture. It would just really make me mad.

No jury is going to convict me.

I was extremely confident that no jury would convict me, because I didn`t expect any of you to be here. I didn`t expect to be here. At the time, I had plans to commit suicide.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight it`s the day we`ve all been waiting for. An unbelievable moment in court as Jodi Arias takes the stand kind of suddenly in her own defense. Will her soft-spoken bombshell-after-bombshell claims of being beaten by her parents and thoughts of suicide convince the jury that she killed her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, in self-defense and not in cold blood?

Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live tonight.

The beautiful 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, slit his throat from ear to ear, all the way back to his spine, and shot him in the face. But late this afternoon, she suddenly took the stand herself and claimed self-defense. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me and I defended myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But that was only the warm up. Jodi`s defense wasted no time confronting her about her comment to "Inside Edition" that, quote, "no jury will ever convict" her. Listen to her shocking answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I had plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that no jury would convict me, because I didn`t expect any of you to be here. I didn`t expect to be here. I was very confident that no jury would convict me, because I planned to be dead, probably the most bitter words I`ll ever eat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A plea for sympathy, perhaps? Jodi then told her entire life story on the stand, claiming an abusive childhood when her mother beat her with a wooden spoon and claiming an ex-boyfriend once tried to strangle her.

Did Jodi`s tale of woe make her seem more sympathetic, instead of just a murdering monster? I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1- 877-586-7297.

Straight out to our own senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian.

Selin, you were inside the courtroom for this incredibly dramatic moment that Jodi really caught us all by surprise. Suddenly she takes the stand. What was it like? Take us inside that courtroom.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Jane, we didn`t really know she was going to take the stand. The jury was on a break. The attorneys were at side bar, and all of a sudden, Jodi started walking up to the stand, and the entire courtroom was stunned she was up there.

So she took the stand. It was a big question: Would she or wouldn`t she? She took the stand. And I have to tell you that when the jury was there -- they took -- they were in -- they took a break at one point, and they were walking back in. This is the closest she`s ever sat to the jury. This is the closest they`ve been able to hear her and look at her directly. And two of the women even smiled at her.

And at one point, the jury was on a break, and she was -- Jodi was sitting on the stand looking straight ahead at her -- at Travis Alexander`s family. They were looking right back at her, and they were just waiting for testimony to resume. And they were staring right at her. It was a very awkward moment in court.

But it was definitely the bombshell of the day, was that Jodi took the stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Absolutely. And when she first started out, she said she was nervous. But she hit her stride, and soon it was like she was in command of the courtroom.

As Jodi`s mother sits dutifully in the courtroom right there, Jodi takes the stand and spills dark family secrets, alleging childhood abuse she claims she suffered at the hands of both her mother and her father. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He didn`t leave welts as much as my mom. She also used a belt. Her blows felt a lot worse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did your mom beat you with a wooden spoon? Did it continue in high school, as well?

ARIAS: They continued for a short time, but I think as I turned 16 and 17, she -- I did not recall her carrying the wooden spoon around. She would just start grabbing whatever was available like a hair brush. Or she had acrylic nails, so sometimes she would grab me and dig her nails into my skin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it. Was bringing Jodi to the stand a brilliant defense move or a total catastrophe for Jodi Arias? Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney; Jon Lieberman, investigative reporter; Susan Constantine, body language expert. We begin with Jayne Weintraub.
AYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think that, using self- defense as her defense, she almost had to take the witness stand, because who else was going to say what was in her mind, that she needed to defend herself? So at one point, either now or later, she was going to have to take the stand.

I think that she appears rather flat in her demeanor and a little off. After two hours we`re not even close to getting started yet. But that`s another issue.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you say she had to take the stand. They said that about Casey Anthony. She didn`t take the stand, and she got off. But my question is, was it a catastrophe or is it a brilliant move? And that`s what I`m going to throw at Jon Lieberman.

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think it`s a little bit of both. I mean, I agree she had to take the stand. But look, prosecutors are just biting their chops waiting to sink their teeth into her.

However, I believe this is simply a ploy to save her life. It feels like we`re already in sentencing, and they`re trying to mitigate. You know, these are all mitigating factors. She had a bad childhood. She was abused. She was in some bad relationships. This is all a way to try and save her life so that they can look at the jury and say, "You can`t possibly put this woman to death."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan Constantine, body language expert, is it working? Is she mesmerizing the jurors, just like she has so many men?

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: You know, when you look at her demeanor and the other investigative tapes and it`s very similar. OK? So they`re going to be looking at that. When she was lying she had the same demeanor. She`s on the stand, she has the same demeanor. It doesn`t change.

But here`s the thing. She doesn`t really show any real reliable signs of distress and pain. She talks about it. You don`t see it. So the question is whether the jury really believes it. And when they see those tears, they`re going to be wondering if they`re authentic or are they not.

The black outfit, that`s the other thing, it`s tying right into the depression, the suicidal look because of that dark color and the light skin. And you know what? It`s actually going to work for the defense on that one. But all and all, her demeanor doesn`t appear authentic.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And to me this is just a plea. One of our panelists may have said it: "Don`t kill me. I have established a relationship with you. I`m going to talk to you until you`re -- I`m blue in the face, and you`re going to feel like you`re my friend on some level, and then you won`t put me to death."

Jodi revealed to jurors today that her mother and father repeatedly abused her growing up. That`s her claim, anyway. Remember, she`s a pathological liar.

Listen as she describes how her dad`s beatings became increasingly more violent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He would just shove me into furniture, sometimes into the piano and things like that, into tables, chairs, desks. Whatever was around he would just push me really hard and I would go flying into that.

One time I hit a door post. The side of my head hit the door post, and it knocked me out momentarily. I just remember waking up on the ground. My mom was there. We were all arguing. I was arguing with my mom and he got involved. And so I remember waking up, and she was telling him to be careful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you believe her? I don`t know if I believe her, but I will say that I think she`s believable, at least on the jurors` part. They don`t know everything we know.

We`re going to analyze so much more of this in just a second. You`re going to hear all of her key testimony.
 ::snipping2::
So much more explosive sound from defendant Jodi Arias on the stand today. And we`re taking your calls on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me. And I defended myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I sat up. I had been sleeping, so I didn`t give him a satisfactory answer. So he hit me across the face. I fell back down, and then he sat me back up and asked me again. I didn`t give him a satisfactory answer. He hit me across the face again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say he would punch you?

ARIAS: No, it was an open-handed slap.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias takes the stand and starts telling her life story, which she says is filled with abuse from her mother and her father. And we`ve already gotten to one ex-boyfriend she claims abused her.

Beth Karas, first, on "In Session," you`ve been covering this from the start. First of all, why suddenly now? I thought we were going to hear the sex phone calls? Is it a sign that maybe the sex phone calls didn`t make it in and she had to take the stand?

BETH KARAS, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Oh, no. We may hear it now that she`s on the stand. And I -- I think I understand what the defense is doing, because the judge had said the experts who are still to testify cannot testify to Jodi Arias` statements to them. You know, they evaluated her. She told them about Travis` abuse, alleged abuse. She told them the details of how she killed him and what he did to her to justify the killing. They can`t testify to that.

They can reach conclusions about her state of mind, PTSD and battered woman syndrome. So I guess, you know, maybe they wanted to get her on the stand first, let her be cross-examined, and then the experts can testify to all the details without objection, because she will have already testified to her statements.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what you`re saying is, now that she`s taken the stand, we will definitely hear the sex phone calls that she had with Travis?

KARAS: Well, I`ll tell you. Let me tell you. I believe that the experts have relied on that phone call, at least in part, in reaching their conclusions. So if we don`t hear it through Jodi Arias`s testimony, we`ll hear it through the experts. I think we`re going to hear this phone call.

But I wouldn`t be surprised if it comes in while she`s on the stand. And I think she`ll be on the stand for the next two days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi was dropping bombshells left and right on the stand. Now she defended her comment that "no jury will ever convict me," which she made on "Inside Edition." Listen to how Jodi spun that comment. This is fascinating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I had plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that no jury would convict me because I didn`t expect any of you to be here. I didn`t expect to be here, so I could have as easily said no jury would acquit me either. I couldn`t say that, though, because there was an officer sitting five feet behind me, and had I told them the reason no one would convict me at that time, I would have been thrown into a padded cell and stripped down, and that would have been my life for a while until I stabilized.

So I was very confident that no jury would convict me, because I planned to be dead, probably the most bitter words I`ll ever eat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, this woman is a genius at taking any comment she may have made and spinning it. So is this just a coming attraction of what we`re going to see as she spins all the lies she told during the police interrogation?

Let`s bring in our expert panel again. And we`re adding Rene Sandler, criminal defense attorney. OK. First of all, is this defense strategy simply "we`re going to take every incriminating thing that Jodi ever said and spin it, put her own spin on it," like, "Oh, yes, I said no jury will ever convict me, yes, because I was about to commit suicide." Is this just the start of that spin, Rene?

RENE SANDLER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, she owned it. I`m going to go with brilliant. So far, I think brilliant defense strategy. They`re telling the story. They are coming through with the promises they made from the beginning of the trial. So she owned it, and it`s the biggest lie she told, other than she didn`t do it, and she`s setting up a very plausible defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub.

WEINTRAUB: I agree. I completely agree. You know, the problem is going to be, and we won`t be able to assess it properly until it`s told by cross-examination, as well, looking at it in hindsight. But the bottom line is today, I thought it was a great answer. It was convincing.

And as far as the abuse is concerned, I think it`s an important bottom-line foundation for this girl. It`s not...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, please. Jon Lieberman.

LIEBERMAN: I disagree.

WEINTRAUB: I`ll tell you why. Because she was immune to it. And she didn`t get scared from it, because that`s the way she was brought up. I`m sure there`s tons of corroboration. This is a death case. They don`t make this stuff up. They have other witnesses to corroborate that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon.

LIEBERMAN: Well, I disagree with what the two said about a plausible defense. I mean, I don`t think, at the end of the day when she is done on the stand, I don`t think anybody is going to believe her defense.

I think the sole purpose for putting her on is to save her life, because a jury is going to have a hard time looking her in the face and putting her to death when they heard about her bad childhood and the bad relationships.

But I don`t think that she`s going to have a plausible defense of self-defense, because we are going to hear Mr. Martinez tear into her about her credibility. She will have no credibility by the time she leaves the stand.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She doesn`t have any credibility now. It`s already been established she`s a pathological liar.

But unfortunately or fortunately, I think that she is going to be believable to the jury. That`s how I think it`s going to play out, even though we may not believe her because we know she is a liar the jurors don`t have all the information that we have. They don`t have the big picture.

They`ve just got this very soft-spoken innocent-sounding young lady on the stand telling her story. And if the prosecution gets too rough on cross-examination they might sympathize with her more.

On the other side your calls, for reals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Jodi.

ARIAS: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you feeling right now?

ARIAS: Nervous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me ask you this. Is this a position you ever thought you would find yourself in, testifying here today? you nervous today?

ARIAS: Yes. Yes I am.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about your dads and the beatings getting rougher and rougher? Could you describe for us what you mean by that?

ARIAS: Yes. He would never beat me with his fists or anything. He would just shove me into furniture, sometimes into the piano or things like that and into tables, chairs, desks, whatever was around.

(END VIDEO CLIP

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I think I know where they`re going with this, the defense.

Arianne Cohen, author of "The Sex Diaries Project", a relationship expert, I think a domestic violence expert will take the stand and say, "Well, when you`re beaten by your dad or your mom but especially by your dad, somehow it gets eroticized and then you`re subconsciously attracted to men who sexually abuse you. What are your thoughts on that?

ARIANNE COHEN, AUTHOR, "THE SEX DIARIES PROJECT": I think that`s what they`re going to say. They`re going to try to say that when somebody`s main relationship with other people, with their loved ones, is violence, that it`s really hard to not reenact that.

But this said, I have not heard a word about the important points that we need to hear, which is that he was possessive, that he had an escalation in controlling and violent behavior. We`re heard absolutely none of that. All we`ve heard is that she killed him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they`ve told a lot about this alleged possessive relationship where he would make her wear, like, like a shirt that said "Travis Alexander`s" apostrophe "S" and underwear and panties that said "Travis`" apostrophe.

Now we don`t know whether that was concocted by her after she killed him.

But if she did have this sort of dominance and submission kinky relationship where she was his property, can they connect that, Arianne, to what she`s talking about, about allegedly being pummeled by her dad growing up? In other words, do children, girls who are beaten by dad, grow up having those kinds of kinky, sexually abusive relationships?

COHEN: I think lots of people have kinky relationships. And all that we`ve seen here is that they had a very sexually active relationship. I mean, there is no evidence that he was actually possessive. I mean, that underwear and the shirt with his name on it taken on its own doesn`t mean anything. I mean, if my husband gave me one I would wear it. I think it`s kind of cute. As long as it`s, you know, not in the context of an escalation of disturbing behavior. We still haven`t seen any proof.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know what? I think that they probably did have some kind of kinky relationship, based on just the photographs that were taken. It doesn`t mean that I believe her self-defense claims.

But the photos that were taken of her genitalia were much more graphic than the photos she took of him. I don`t know. I think that you could at least conclude that there was that relationship there that was sexually charged in that manner.

Shanna Hogan, journalist and true crime author. Do you see the defense connecting the dots? Where is this going?

SHANNA HOGAN, JOURNALIST/TRUE CRIME AUTHOR (via phone): It`s definitely headed towards "I was abused, and I had to defend myself that moment in the bathroom." But it was just so pathetic. I found it to be, you know, her statements of abuse. Her dad spanked her? Boo-hoo. She murdered this person. She stabbed him 27 times. And he grew up with a terrible childhood. He grew up with crack-addicted parents. And it`s no excuse to do what she did. It`s just ridiculous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are so far from done. We`re just getting started. More directly from Jodi Arias on the witness stand today.

At the top of the hour Nancy Grace has her take on this explosive day in court, 8 to 10 Eastern on HLN.

On the other side more Jodi Arias on the stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He didn`t leave welts as often as my mom. She also used a belt. Her blows felt a lot worse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did your mom beat you with a wooden spoon? Did it continue in high school, as well?

ARIAS: They continued with a short time, but I think as I turned 16, 17 she didn`t -- I don`t recall her carrying a wooden spoon around. She would just start grabbing whatever was available, like a hairbrush or she had acrylic nails, so some times she would grab me and dig her nails into my skin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI ARIAS` DEFENSE ATTORNEY: In Jodi he found somebody who was easily manipulated and controlled.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: He had all kinds of wild ideas which seemed fun. He had given me a ring and it was kind of a promise ring like we were going to get married but we weren`t officially engaged. We talked about children and marriage and he wanted me to move down there and start a family.

I couldn`t talk to any of my high school friends that were guys. I guess I felt jealous but my heart was pounding I just felt very deceived.

My first taste of being, like feeling warm about somebody.

The argument escalated. He approached me and spun around (inaudible) stranglehold. He started strangling me just for a few seconds and then he let go. I almost passed out. I fell on my knees. It kind of made me upset. I thought he was beautiful on the inside and out. He began to describe in detail how he would kill each member of my family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: A shocker this afternoon, just a little while ago Jodi Arias suddenly takes the stand in her own defense and begins telling her life story which is an extended tale of woe. There she is in wearing a black t-shirt which is an odd choice for this momentous day, a very crucial turning point day perhaps in her life whether she will live or die, actually.

Jodi said her dad beat her, her mother hit her with a wooden spoon and she even told the jury of a huge fight she allegedly had with an old boyfriend from high school. Guess what; she claims that boyfriend was also violent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He started strangling me, just for a few seconds and then he let go. I almost passed out. I fell on my knees. I said my family would be very upset if they found out what you just did. And then he began to describe in detail how he would kill each member of my family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to our panel to debate. Is this the poor me, poor me, please pity me defense? Starting with Jon Leiberman?

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. It absolutely is. I mean what we are waiting to hear is she must describe the moment that she felt that she was in real danger from Travis Alexander in that shower the night that she killed him. That is what we are waiting to hear. That is what prosecutors will jump on and be able to pick apart meticulously.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rene.

RENE SANDLER, ATTORNEY: State of mind. Her state of mind will be the difference between her life or her death -- first degree or second degree murder. It is critical here. So what she thinks, what is in her mind, her experience is critical to her defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s all about her demeanor. It`s all about her credibility. The prosecutors are going to get up there with every single statement and they`re going to go you told such and such on such and such day. You raised your hand, you swore to tell the truth. The same thing you took in this courtroom yesterday, right. Right.

Did you twitch? Did you want to be believed? How do we know when you are lying? Do you wink or move your hair? How do we know you are telling the truth today because you were, you know, convincing us yesterday? That`s the same thing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but you know what; we saw this with Casey Anthony. This is the Casey Anthony defense re-do. She blamed her dad. Now, this one is blaming her mom and her dad while her mom sits in the courtroom just like Cindy and George sat in the courtroom. They take the hits because it is their daughter, their flesh and blood.

And I got to tell you this woman can spin anything. And she is going to sit there for the next two days I predict it spinning why she lied about this, why she lied about that.

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: Jane there was no other weapon in the scene.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it`s -- what I`m saying is she is owning -- she`s owning so much of the crime it almost pulls the rug out from under the feet of the prosecutor. Rene quick, quick thought on that.

SANDLER: She has to own it.

WEINTRAUB: If her life was in jeopardy where is his weapon?

LEIBERMAN: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, there is the gun. She`ll spin a story about that, too. I want to go to Jean Casarez, correspondent "In Session". Jean, I don`t hear a lot of objections from the prosecutor. Why not? She is talking about everything under the sun including some ex-boyfriend`s Halloween costume from the 90s or the 80s. Who cares? Why is the prosecutor letting her basically just take control of this courtroom?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": A lot of people are surprised by that. He started objecting at the beginning of the testimony but now he is focused pen in hand listening to every word. I think he cares more about the cross examination he is going to do with her than he does with these objections that will get him nowhere most likely and is allowing her to just talk.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got to tell you, on the other side we`re going to debate what this prosecutor needs to do on cross examination and how he has to do it. If he comes on too strong could he create more sympathy for Jodi Arias? We`ve got so much more of Jodi`s testimony.
 ::snipping2::

More Jodi Arias on the other side. We are going to play more from her astounding testimony and we will continue our debate -- brilliant or a catastrophe?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I can describe it as betrayed and confused. And as I got a little older it would really make me mad because I just -- I didn`t get why -- I understood that I was being punished but I would just be mad at her a lot because it hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you still love her.

ARIAS: Yes, I love my mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are going to continue our debate as Jodi Arias took the stand this afternoon, testimony that is likely to continue for days. Was this a brilliant life-saving move on her part or an utter catastrophe? What will the prosecutor do on cross-examination? So many questions and we are taking your calls.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I broke up with him on the phone. I don`t know. I guess he didn`t take that well. I learned a few years later that he slit both of his wrists and tried to kill himself and he was committed to some kind of psychiatric ward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Forensic psychologist Cheryl Arutt, she talks about this old boyfriend from high school. When she broke up with him he was so devastated he allegedly slit his wrists. I mean what is her point? That she`s a femme fatale that men find irresistible. What does that have to do with anything?

CHERYL ARUTT, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Jane, that has much more to do with the boy`s mental health obviously than it has to do Jodi`s. But I really think that when they look at this wisp of a young girl with baby bangs and that soft spoken voice talking about all of these bad things that happened in a little girl voice what they are really hoping is that a jury is not going to be able to imagine this woman killing this man even though she has admitted that she did it. I think that they`re trying to humanize her and trying to make her seem like this a fragile flower is their best case.

What are they really going to say? They have to make it sound like a self-defense defense because there isn`t anything else they can say.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the longer she chats away and the longer she takes us down memory lane with her story, the more we feel that somehow we are sucked into some kind of a relationship with her. It is almost hypnotic at a certain point and it is effective perhaps.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Susan, Illinois -- you are so patient - - your question or thought, Susan, Illinois.

SUSAN, ILLINOIS (via telephone): Hi Jane, I love you. I love your show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

SUSAN: I forgot what I was going to say. She sat there stone faced throughout this whole thing. She didn`t choke up. She didn`t shed a tear and we are supposed to believe that she was horribly abused? What a load of crap. I`m sorry but it is crap.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree with you. I am amazed that she didn`t start the water works during this. Maybe she is just gearing up and we are at the start of a long monologue.

Jayne Weintraub, Jon Leiberman, Rene Sandler -- what does the prosecutor need to do to diffuse her, to make her less effective? If he comes on too strong and we know this prosecutor, Juan Martinez has a temper and he can get very harsh then he could force jurors to sympathize with her more. But if he lets her off easy then she could basically dance through all of this tough questions.

Let`s start with Rene Sandler.

SANDLER: First of all both sides -- both the defense can`t let the client go astray and has to stay on point here because they`re just giving ammunition to the prosecution. And on the other hand, the prosecutor tends to be arrogant and he tends to be nasty. So striking the right balance in his demeanor and his tone is going to be critical for him to connect with this jury and have the jury embrace what he is saying.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What happens, Jayne Weintraub, when he says look, you lied about saying that ninjas -- after claiming you weren`t there, you lied and you said ninjas broke in and killed him. You were lying. She goes yes because and then she has a much better imagination than I do. She comes up with some incredible good story as to why she lied all this time.

WEINTRAUB: It doesn`t matter why. The only point is that she lied when it is convenient for her. She lied when it is convenient for her. That has to be his mantra. It just doesn`t even matter what her answers are going to be. His questions and his tone are what`s going to be important.

LEIBERMAN: Right.

WEINTRAUB: She didn`t tell the truth. She didn`t tell the truth. That is all that is going to matter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but a liar as we learned in the Casey Anthony case does not necessarily equal a murderer.

Jon Leiberman --

LEIBERMAN: Yes, but --

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: She has a self-defense claim here, Jane. She has to stick with the self-defense.

LEIBERMAN: Exactly.

WEINTRAUB: What made her stab him 27 times?

LEIBERMAN: Exactly.

WEINTRAUB: Did he have a knife on her? It is not more force than necessary to kill. That is the law.

LEIBERMAN: Mr. Martinez --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s take a look and while you`re talking -- let`s take a look at some of the crime scene photos because I have a follow up. Go ahead.

LEIBERMAN: Well, Mr. Martinez is going to meticulously break down her lies. But something else he has to do as well is he is going to ask her questions that she doesn`t have answers to -- a lot of the things having to do with premeditation. Why did you go there with a gun and a knife? What happened with that gun and a knife? Why was it stolen from your grandparents` house?

I mean Mr. Martinez is a very good prosecutor. He will meticulously break her down and she`ll even appear to be more of a liar than she appears now when he is done with her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t think everybody is getting my point here and that is that she has a capacity -- some people do and some don`t. But pathological liars -- ok, Jean Casarez, you have been in there in the courtroom. You`ve been watching all the tapes. Pathological liars are never caught in a lie because no matter what you say to them -- and I`ve dealt with some -- they come up with some way to twist it as to why it should all make sense for you.

They never admit yes I lied, yes you are right. They always have an answer for everything. That is why they are maddening but they`re very crafty. And she is one of the best pathological liars I have ever seen in my life right up there with Casey Anthony -- Jean.

CASAREZ: And she will be very calm as she gives those answers. That is why there`s going to be -- have to be a lot made to show just more than inconsistencies. For instance, this high school boyfriend in Costa Rica who wouldn`t let her talk to guys, wouldn`t let her be around guys, got very upset, very possessive -- well that is control, right. She wrote him a letter and she broke up with him. That is not an abuse victim that becomes under his control and can`t get out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: John, California, your question or thought -- John?

JOHN, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): Yes, hi Jane. My big question is that how are they going to be able to explain the gun? You know what I mean. Did it miraculously just show up? Did it, you know, come out of thin air? It just doesn`t -- it bewilders me how they`re going to possibly deal with that and how that couldn`t be premeditation. I mean that to me is complete premeditation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. However, again, you are dealing with a pathological liar. She has already come up with an explanation for the knife. Oh, he was tying me up with ropes and he cut off the knife. And the knife was lying around in the bedroom. She is probably going to do the same thing with the gun.

On the other side we`re going to analyze what she might come up with to explain the gun she used to shoot Travis Alexander.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I sat up and I was disoriented because I had been sleeping. But I didn`t give him a satisfactory answer so he hit me across the face. I fell back down and he got me back up and asked me again. And I didn`t give him a satisfactory answer so he hit me across the face again. And I fell down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) You say he hit you. Did he punch you?

ARIAS: No it was an open-handed hard slap.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Truly an astounding day in court as Jodi Arias suddenly takes the stand in her own defense and she is telling her whole life story. The prosecution not really objecting much so she`s going off and describing everything from a Halloween costume to her old boyfriend. Why? Who cares?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me and I defended myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But that`s all she said thus far as she`s taken the stand and how is she going to explain the 29 stab wounds, slitting Travis Alexander`s throat ear to ear, shooting in the face? Will the prosecutor have to take her through every one of those stab wounds? I hope he does.

Susan Constantine, body language expert, what`s fascinating about her is that there is no change in affect and we saw this as well when she was doing the police interrogation tapes. We can show you a little video of that. There`s no change in affect when she is telling the truth and when she`s lying, because some things it`s like, yes, the sun came up today. She`s not lying. And there`s no change at all in affect which makes it very tricky to catch her.

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: It is from a juror`s perspective but I can see the changes when she is telling the truth and when she`s telling partial truths and when she`s lying. But one of the things that the jury should be watching --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Watch it -- wait, wait, whoa, whoa. You can see? What exactly are you seeing? Because I can`t see a thing.

CONSTANTINE: Well, there was a moment when she was talking about the abuse you could actually see her concealing a smile. And that is called duping delight. When she thinks that she has pulled the wool over on your eyes, there`s a tendency to have this enjoyment that she pulled one over on you. So it`s very micro. But I see it in one-tenth of a second, Jane, because I`m trained to see that. The jury is not.

So here is what`s going to have to happen. She is going to have to move that jury to feel fear. She is going to have to move that jury to feel empathy and pain and emotion. And if she can`t do it and they don`t move -- she doesn`t move them to feel that emotion, they`re going to say those are empty words.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan, during the break that`s happening now, we`re going to cue up that sound where you see that little duping delight or whatever you called it and we`re going to play it for our audience.

Stay right there. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I sat up and I was disoriented because I had been sleeping, so I didn`t give him a satisfactory answer so he hit me across the face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, there`s that little smile, that little micro smile. Cheryl Arutt, forensic psychologist, do you see the micro smile? Do you think she`s lying?

ARUTT: I do see the micro smile. I have to say, I see it, too. There are quite a few signs of malingering here. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s unbelievable and the question that we have from Randy, Ohio viewer she wants to know if we think that Jodi is going to collapse and start sobbing when the prosecution cross-examined her. I would say, yes, she is going to have a flood of tears, when any hard question hits her that she is going to have trouble answering.

We`re going to bring you tomorrow`s testimony. Join us 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Nancy next.

END

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« Reply #141 on: February 05, 2013, 09:41:36 AM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/04/ng.01.html
NANCY GRACE

Jodi Arias Takes the Stand

Aired February 4, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We are live outside the Phoenix courthouse. Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias on the witness stand in her own defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense calls Jodi Arias.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

JODI ALEXANDER, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Yes, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me and I defended myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said that no juror would convict you.

ARIAS: No jury is going to convict me.

At the time, I had plans to commit suicide, so I was extremely confident that no jury would convict me because I didn`t expect any of you to be here. I didn`t expect to be here. So I could have easily said no jury would acquit me, either. So I was very confident that no jury would convict me because I planned to be dead, probably the most bitter words I`ll ever eat.

My dad started using a belt. My mom began to carry a wooden spoon in her purse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias on the witness stand in her own defense. Let`s take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me, and I defended myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel when your own mother was beating you?

ARIAS: When I was younger, I remember feeling -- I didn`t have a word for it then, but I can describe it as betrayed and confused. And as I got a little bit older, it would just really make me mad because I just -- I didn`t get why -- I don`t know. I understood that I was being punished, but I would just be mad at her a lot over (ph) that because it hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you still love her.

ARIAS: Yes, I love my mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though she was still beating you, you still loved her.

ARIAS: Yes. It put a strain on our relationship, but I still loved her, of course.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry? I didn`t hear the last part.

ARIAS: I still loved her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why was that (INAUDIBLE)

ARIAS: I still loved him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned a point in time when bobby (Ph) moved in with an individual named Matt.

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And I believe you were talking about how at the end of your relationship with Bobby, you moved into your grandparents` home, correct?

ARIAS: Yes. I moved out of that woman`s (ph) house and into my grandmother`s house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what city is your grandmother`s house located in?

ARIAS: Yreka.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you live there just with your grandmother, or was anyone else living there?

ARIAS: My grandfather also lived there and their dog, Ringo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you close to your grandparents? How was your relationship with them?

ARIAS: I felt close to my grandparents, not like lovey-dovey close, but they seem -- they`re very down-to-earth people. Well, my grandfather is -- my grandmother is very down-to-earth, and I can just tell her anything and it doesn`t really faze her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you move back in with your parents?

ARIAS: Well, I didn`t want to get back to that environment. We got along very well after I moved out, and I wanted to keep it that way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What -- tell us about your life after you moved back to your grandparents` home. Are you still working at Denny`s? Do you go back to school? Just kind of describe your life for us.

ARIAS: Yes. After that incident occurred with Bobby -- I had worked at Denny`s for about a year at that point. And if you`re a full-time employee at Denny`s, or I think a minimum of, like, 32 hours a week, you get vacation benefits. And so I decided to use that time to spend away from him, and I flew back to Costa Rica for a week-and-a-half.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And am I correct in assuming that was to spend time with Victor?

ARIAS: No. He didn`t live in the house anymore. I stayed with my -- the same family, but he had moved out and moved on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you spent about a week-and-a-half, it sounds like, with Victor`s family, not with him.

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And kind of assessing your life? Is that fair to say?
ARIAS: Yes, I spent a lot of time just reflecting and healing from that, and I felt in a lot better place by the time I came back.

Victor actually -- I did see Victor three days before I flew back. So he took me out to dinner and that was it, and then drove me to the airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you say healing from that, what are you talking about, healing from the relationship with Bobby?

ARIAS: Yes, because we kept going back and I kept hearing about incidents where he was trying to hook up with other girls and -- but then he would deny it. And I didn`t see anything, so I -- there was just a lot of turmoil. We were arguing still, and then the physical incident that happened. And I needed to just remove myself from the situation so that I could allow my heart to move on a little, and so that break from him, I thought, had helped me a lot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So at some point in time, you were in love with Bobby, right?

ARIAS: Yes, very much, a lot more than I was Victor. Bobby was, like, my first true love.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So once you have spent some time in Costa Rica and you`ve, I guess, used your vacation time at Denny`s, you come back to Yreka, I presume?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what -- how do you proceed in your life?

ARIAS: I went back to work and...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You are seeing accused killer Jodi Arias on the stand in her own defense. This was the million-dollar question. Will she take the stand and subject herself to cross-exam? Well, so far, it has been extremely innocuous testimony, but we`re getting into testimony where she`s seemingly saying her parents beat her. She says her mom carried around a wooden spoon in her pocketbook to spank the children with.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re just now telling us that your mother carried a spoon with her. What did she do with that spoon?

ARIAS: It was a wooden kitchen spoon that she would keep in her purse, and if we were misbehaving, my brother and I -- this was before Angela and Joseph were born, although it continued through that point -- if we were misbehaving, she would use it on us. Sometimes she would pull the car over, and you know -- if we were just being brats or something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean by "use it" on you?

ARIAS: She would hit us with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She hit you hard?

ARIAS: It felt pretty hard, yes. It left welts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It left welts on your body?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beatings, the pushing into furniture, that sort of thing with your dad continued throughout your high school years.

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were those the incidents you were talking about before, about being pushed into the post and the furniture, or were there other incidents?

ARIAS: That happened when I was in high school. There were a few things that happened right before we moved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, maybe I`m crazy, but I think I just heard her say her mom hit her with a wooden spoon. I mean, think about it. If Jodi Arias was your daughter, what would you do? I don`t spank, but what if you had Jodi Arias, who we know -- out to you, Bethany Marshall. You`re the shrink. We know that Jodi Arias beat her brother in the head with a baseball bat when she was 5. So frankly, I don`t know if the mother spanked her enough with that wooden spoon.

So that`s where we`re going with this defense, the wooden spoon defense?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Oh, I would carry a spoon in my purse, too, if I was her mom! You know what? Nancy, the language she uses to describe the so-called abuse doesn`t even get close to what real victims of abuse sound like. She says, I felt betrayed. What child says they feel betrayed when a parent beats them? When an adult reports childhood abuse, they say, I felt like I was a bad person.

So clearly, she`s malingering the abuse. Malingering when you make up a fictitious incident to get out of some punishment. So it`s just a story.

GRACE: OK, let`s go back in the courtroom, Jodi Arias on the stand in her own defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: Well, so she was able to say this is really who he is so he could get identification. We finally figured that out and so...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me interrupt. I want to make sure we`re clear here. Even after the incident that what you are describing as an isolated incident of violence, even after the point in time when you find him -- find letters that -- or evidence that he`s being unfaithful with you, and you come back from Costa Rica, you`re going to move on. You decided a romantic relationship isn`t going to work. Are we to understand...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, according to her, every single boyfriend cheats on her! I`m seeing a recurring theme. He cheated on me, so I stabbed him to death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: ... he promised to cut ties with her and not have any contact with her anymore. And it was -- it wasn`t physical. It was on line only. She lived in Louisiana. And I think he was still talking to her, but he promised me, You`ll never have to see me talking to her. So it was implied that he might talk to her, but he`ll never do it in my presence. So it was kind of strange.

But -- and then again, the physical incident was isolated, so you know, if he need clothing, I would -- I didn`t, like, buy him a whole wardrobe. I didn`t have that kind of income. But if he needed a few shirts or something -- he was really into "South Park," so he saw these "South Park T-shirts one time and he wanted those. I bought them, a sweatshirt, jeans, that kind of thing, just some kind of clothing for him because his parents weren`t able to provide that at that point. They were in a rest home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told us that your dad hit you with a belt.

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After age 7.

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he leave welts?

ARIAS: He didn`t leave welts as often as my mom. She also used a belt. He -- my dad was very intimidating, so I don`t think he needed to hit us quite as hard to get the point across.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did -- did -- the beatings from your mother and father, did they continue?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Whoa-oh! That was the question he didn`t know the answer to. He said, Did your father leave welts? And she said no. OK, that backfired.

So so far -- out to you, Jean Casarez -- Jean at the courthouse. Jean, I`ve got, Mommy hit me with a wooden spoon. I mean, think about it, Jean. If Jodi Arias was your daughter, I`d sleep with the door locked and a bulletproof vest with a collar around my neck, I`d be so afraid. So OK, Mommy spanked her with a wooden spoon and Daddy hit her with a belt but never left welts. And one night when she stayed out all night long, he slapped her.

All right, that`s what I understand so far. Did I miss something?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Yes, that she said that he pushed her into the doorframe.

GRACE: That`s right.

CASAREZ: That was the worst he ever did, pushed her into the door molding. And -- but the welts she had testified before came from the wooden spoon.

GRACE: OK. So I did -- I recall that he did state -- she did state the father pushed her one time and she ran into -- she fell into the door molding.

All right, so far, this is what the defense is offering as a self- defense. They`re starting back before age 7 with her mother spanking her with a wooden spoon. I don`t know if that`s going to work.

Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com, a lot of ladies -- there`s mom sitting in the courtroom right now. Alexis, a lot of ladies and men on this jury probably have spanked their child with a lot worse than a wooden spoon.

Don`t get me wrong, Alexis. I`m trying not to spank the twins, have made it to age 5. Lucy`s only been spanked one time when she slapped John David. That`s it.

I don`t know if I could say the same if I was trying to raise Jodi Arias, who beat her brother in the head with a baseball bat.

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: And it started out so explosively with the defense. The very first thing they said was, Did you kill Travis Alexander? And she said yes. And then they go into this back story when she was 7 years old and (INAUDIBLE) and she`s got the most detailed story I`ve ever heard of something that happened almost 20 years ago. I don`t know she`s remembering it all. She remembers the exact day that she broke up with a boyfriend when she was 15 years old.

They`re really giving a lot of information to this jury that has absolutely nothing to do with Travis Alexander.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Parag Shah, defense attorney, Atlanta, Eric Schwartzreich, defense attorney, Miami.

Eric, we`re seeing a cycle here. It goes on and on, everybody she dates. And we started at what, what was it, at age 12 her first boyfriend at the ferris wheel or the whatever it was at the fair? Why am I hearing this? I don`t know.

But it goes all the way back, and every one of them were bad seeds. They all cheated. They did this. They did that. I heard more about her getting a spanking with a wooden spoon from her mother, which I`m sure she deserved, than I heard about her slashing her lover`s throat from ear to ear. Why is that, Eric?

ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, we`re taking that wooden spoon and we`re stirring the pot. Here`s the bottom line. She works at Denny`s, but this is their grand slam. She had to testify. The window was shrinking. There was so much going on in that courtroom, she had no choice but to get on the stand. And now you might lose a battle, but you need to win a war.

This is a death penalty case, Nancy. So she gets on there, she talks about her past. She talks about this wooden spoon, the abusive relationships, Mommy did this to me. And we`re hoping or the defense is hoping that some jurors find some connection with her.

She`s told more tales than Pinocchio, this girl.

GRACE: OK, Eric...

SCHWARTZREICH: But now she`s in the courtroom, Nancy, and they have to listen to her.

GRACE: You`re right. She better do a Hail Mary, Schwartzreich. And to you, Parag Shah. Here`s the deal. Having prosecuted child abuse and child molestation cases in the pits, in inner city Atlanta, for a decade, to me, child abuse is -- and this is from a parent that doesn`t spank yet - - burning the child with cigarettes, beating the child, chaining the child up, leaving bruises on the child. So far, I`ve heard a wooden spoon and Daddy slapped me when I stayed out all night, and one time he pushed me and I fell into a doorjamb.

OK, none of that is good. I`m not saying that`s good. But that is not going to carry a self-defense case. I`m just telling you, Parag.

PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think what`s going to happen is the testimony is going to build up to show a more severe type of abuse as her life continued on with these boyfriends. And that`s going to be the main emotional connection she`s going to try to need to make with the jury so that they don`t give her the death penalty.

GRACE: Parag, Parag, you and Eric, you both courtroom veterans. We all know that self-defense is objective. It is not subjective. It goes along with the eggshell skull theory in civil law, where the jury`s got to decide what`s reasonable to them. And because Mommy spanked her with a wooden spoon when she was 7, that`s not going to carry self-defense now when she stabs Travis Alexander 29 times, slashing his throat.

OK,let`s hear it from the horse`s mouth. Roll it, Liz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me and I defended myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias, in her murder one trial, accused of slashing her lover to death, 29 stabs plus a gunshot wound to the head just for good measure, takes the stand in her own defense. Conventional wisdom -- never put your client on the stand. Well, they did it. It`s a Hail Mary pass.

Here`s the kicker. We`re hearing more about her Mommy spanking her with a wooden spoon than we are about the day she murdered her lover, 29 slashes with a butcher knife.

All right, take a look, Aaron Brehove. You`re the body language expert. This is a key moment in court. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me and I defended myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: All right, Aaron, to me, she was more believable on "48 Hours" when she said two ninjas dressed in black murdered Travis Alexander. That story was better than what she just did. She listened to the question, turns very stiffly to the jury and goes, Yes, I did, and turns back. He asked a question, she responds, I defended myself, and turns back, looking away from the jury.

I want to hear your thoughts, Aaron.

AARON BREHOVE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT (via telephone): Well, she`s been lying consistently. We saw her on the interviews, and she was believable there. And she`s less believable here, which is a surprise.

You`d expect to see a little bit of emotion at some point. And we see she just gets quiet. She wants to act like she`s been suppressed, she`s been hurt her whole life. And this is part of the act that she`s putting on. She`s a great actress, but she`s not doing that great of a job right now.

This is something she`s consistently lying (ph), and we don`t see anything really coming out. I can`t see any part of her testimony that you could really trust. And this is consistent. If she doesn`t start to become trustworthy and tell some -- tell some truths, she`s not going to be believable to anybody, as she`s not believable right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I know that I`m innocent. God knows I`m innocent. Travis knows I`m innocent. No jury is going to convict me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?

ARIAS: Because I`m innocent. And you can mark my words on that one, no jury will convict me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Now, that is Jodi Arias on "Inside Edition."

Everybody, Jodi Arias on the stand in her own defense. Now, this is what she said just moments ago regarding her vow that no jury would ever convict her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You gave an interview with "Inside Edition." Do you remember seeing that tape?

ARIAS: Yes, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in that tape, you said that no jury would convict you, something to that effect. Do you remember saying that -- remember saying that?

ARIAS: Yes, I did say that. I made that statement in September 2008, I believe it was. And at the time, I had plans to commit suicide, so I was extremely confident that no jury would convict me because I didn`t expect any of you to be here. I didn`t expect to be here. So I could have easily said no jury would acquit me, either. I couldn`t say that, though, because there was an officer sitting...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I call a BS on that one.

Liz, play me back "Inside Edition" one more time, please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I know that I`m innocent, God knows I`m innocent, Travis knows I`m innocent. No jury is going to convict me.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why not?

ARIAS: Because I`m innocent. And you can mark my words on that one. No jury will convict me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Parag Shah, Eric Schwartzreich.
You know what, she sure pulled the tiger by the tail. You know when you have a tiger by the tail you can`t hold on and you can`t let go, and that`s just what she did because on "Inside Edition" which I hope the prosecution plays back, she says they will not convict me because I`m innocent, because everybody knows I`m innocent.

She did not say they`ll never convict me because I`m not going to be here for a jury trial. I`m going to be dead. I`m going to commit suicide. So she is totally busted herself, Schwartzreich.

ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She has two ways to go. She can play the "I`m innocent" or she can say suicide. The issue with the suicide, Nancy, is we have some sympathy. Remember, there`s going to be a death penalty phase if there`s a conviction in this case. They hear that there`s remorse and that she feels sorry for what she did and notice how when she was asked, did you kill, not did you murder.

GRACE: That`s not what she said, Parag Shah. If you listen to what she said, I played it twice just so the two of you could hear it. She said no jury will convict me because I`m innocent, and she was smiling, actually laughing at the time. Did you see that? Do you have a monitor in your studio?

She said they`re not going to convict me because I`m innocent, and laughs, not because I`m contemplating suicide.

PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If she acted in self-defense, then she is innocent.

GRACE: Yes. Well, that`s not what we`re talking about.

SHAH: So she`s fine. She`s innocent.

(CROSSTALK)

SHAH: She said she was innocent.

GRACE: Let`s talk to somebody that can make --

SHAH: And self-defense is innocence.

GRACE: OK. Thank you. Good deflect, guys.

Out to you, Jean Casarez, OK, let`s listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I know that I`m innocent. God knows I`m innocent. Travis knows I`m innocent. No jury is going to convict me.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why not?

ARIAS: Because I`m innocent and you can mark my words on that. No jury will convict me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. She didn`t laugh. She is smiling.

Jean Casarez, do you see the conflict in her testimony when she actually said?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Watch out for cross- examination, Nancy. Watch out. Because that`s the first place Juan Martinez is going to go. There are numerous challenges here, Nancy. One has to do with the boyfriend by the name of Victor Arias. He lived in Costa Rica. She testified that he wouldn`t let her talk to guys. Wouldn`t let her out of his sight. Very possessive.

Well, that`s a controlling boyfriend, Nancy, right? Bordering on emotionally abusive. Do you know what she did? She e-mailed him, got him out of her life. Said I`m moving on. I can`t take this. She didn`t stay in an abusive relationship with this guy.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are at the courthouse.

Out to Maxine in California. Hi, Maxine. What`s your question, dear?

MAXINE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, love you. You know the t-shirt and the shorts that`s got --

GRACE: Oh, yes.

MAXINE: -- his name on them.

GRACE: Yes.

MAXINE: OK. I`ll lay you odds that she bought those, had those picked up to entice him. She is a manipulator.

GRACE: Oh, Maxine, there`s more than that. More than that.

OK, everybody, here is your crazy, (INAUDIBLE) shot for the day. There`s Jodi Alexander`s underwear, her pink underwear and T-shirt that says, "Travis`" in the possessory manner. And "Travis Alexander`s" in the possessory manner.

But here is the crazy part, Jean Casarez, the photos that she took of those, weren`t they after he was murdered?
CASAREZ: Not only after he was murdered but a couple of days before she was arrested. That`s when the photo was taken that you`re looking at right now. But, Nancy, let`s go back to opening statements from the defense. They said to the jury, you will hear as evidence that Travis bought those for Jodi in April of 2008, and he gave them to her, and that`s after they had broken up.

GRACE: You see, that doesn`t even make any sense, Jean. And the fact that she is taking this picture well after she`s murdered him -- OK, Parag Shah and Eric Schwartzreich, I hate to pick on you guys, but she is claiming that he treated her as a possession. It seems to me she`s taking the -- she`s constructed this defense, Schwartzreich, and she`s taken these photos in the event that she gets arrested.

The photo that she took of these underwear in which he possessed her, the photos after she murders him.

SCHWARTZREICH: Nancy, you can give an aspirin a headache. But here`s the bottom line, Nancy.

GRACE: Thank you.

SCHWARTZREICH: You`re very welcome.

GRACE: I`ll take that as a compliment.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHWARTZREICH: It is a compliment to you, Nancy. But the bottom line is this. There -- they need to paint her -- they need to show that she is twisted, that she is sick, that there`s issues, that she`s abused, that she`s battered. You bloody the victim. That`s what they`re doing. They`re saying he purchased that. Travis Alexander`s underwear, he made the purchase, he`s controlling, he`s the bad guy. That`s what the defense is doing.

GRACE: OK. Matt Zarrell, you`ve been studying this all day long as we watched the testimony together. What did the underwear have to do with this whole self-defense theory?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, the idea the defense is trying to say is that Travis Alexander was controlling. The problem is as we`ve talked about is the evidence did not -- the photos were not being taken until over a month after the murder.

In fact, Nancy, the defense`s own expert admitted it appeared the photos was posed, that these images were staged.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Jodi.

ARIAS: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you feeling right now?

ARIAS: Nervous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, let me ask you this. Is this a position you ever thought you would find yourself in, testifying here today? Well, you`re speaking very quietly, are you nervous today?

ARIAS: Yes. Yes, I am.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that?

ARIAS: Yes, very nervous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you do me a favor and pull the mike a little closer to you?

Jodi, if you could, first of all, do us all a favor, again, I know it`s difficult. I know you`re nervous, you told us before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Objection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if you could just speak up a little louder, make sure everybody can hear you, OK?

ARIAS: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: How self-serving. You know, I would have been all over him like a cheap suit. That was totally objectionable.
Jean Casarez, not only legal correspondent but also practicing lawyer, Jean, to say how do you feel? Irrelevant. Irrelevant. Self-serving, number one. I would be on him like a cheap suit objecting every single time to stop the flow with Jodi Arias.

CASAREZ: Right.

GRACE: What was -- the defense attorney doesn`t know those type of questions are inadmissible?

CASAREZ: You know, Juan Martinez has objected but he is not disrupting that testimony like we`ve seen in the past. He`s letting it flow, but he`s sitting at that table, he`s got his pen in his hand listening intently as has been the jury. Not many notes from them. And I think he`s just waiting for that cross-examination. This is all about credibility, Nancy.

GRACE: Jean, I`ve got to tell you something, I believe the ninja story more than I believe the story she just told the jury. Looking at her, her demeanor, the way she said it, the way she looked -- she paused, looked at the jury, said, yes, I killed him. Looked away. Very robotically. It said I was just defending myself and looked back. Her story about the two -- the man and woman dressed in solid black, the ninja killers was more convincing than this.

Hey, Liz, let`s hear some courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did Bobby treat you?

ARIAS: I thought he treated me well until I discovered that he was wasn`t being faithful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And when in your relationship did you discover that?

ARIAS: We had gone -- he was on party line a lot and he talked to this woman --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, brace yourself. Jodi Arias is talking about yet another bad boyfriend that cheated on her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As it relates to your parents, how was your interest in art received? Did they encourage that? How did that - how was it received by your parents?

ARIAS: They didn`t discourage me by any means, but they were lukewarm, I`d say. You know, oh, that`s nice. They weren`t really moved by it, I don`t think. I was getting a lot of praise from my classmates and my art teacher and other people. But I didn`t really get that from them. They were just a little bit indifferent.

He wanted to move to San Francisco and he had all kinds of wild ideas, which were -- they seemed fun but they were just not where I was, so at that point I broke up with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean wild ideas?

ARIAS: Well, he entertained the belief in vampires and he thought let`s go to San Francisco and see if we can find some real vampires. And, you know, I used to read Ann Rice novels at the time. It didn`t seem realistic to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. Matt Zarrell, yet another boyfriend seems to be the cause of all of her problems, but this one she says never cheated on her. What did he go online and look at a dating Web site or something like that? Now he`s the bad guy?

ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, you`ll be familiar with this term, love letters. We heard about letters with Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias. Arias alleges that he -- she discovered her boyfriend at the time was sending love letters to this girl that she -- that he desired.

GRACE: OK. And the point is? Where -- how is that -- how is that going to tie in to stabbing Travis Alexander 29 times? Her old boyfriend sends somebody else a love letter. Help me out, Matt.

ZARRELL: Well, I guess the idea is that person treated Arias bad but didn`t attack Arias like Travis Alexander attacked Arias in the shower.

GRACE: OK. Dr. Bethany Marshall, this is all just a big setup. She is going through every boyfriend. I think we went back to age 5, the first time she ever rode a Ferris wheel with somebody or some ride at the fair. And they`re all bad boyfriends, according to her they all cheat. They`re all horrible. They`re all bad relationships, but how is that getting me one inch closer to a valid self-defense?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, it`s a good question. The defense is trying so hard to portray her as someone who is vulnerable with no capacity to protect herself, lost in life, victim to a string of really bad boyfriends who cheated on her. But because her affect is so flat and she`s so steely and such a poor actress, what she is coming off as is as someone who will throw everybody under the bus, someone who is toxic, who poisons other people`s reputations, and these jurors are going to listen to this story and they`re going to think of somebody in their life who told untrue, poisonous, toxic stories about them because we all know somebody like that, somebody who stabs you in the back when you walk out of the room.

So they`re also going to think she`s so acting -- she`s so worldly. I mean, who knows about those 800 or 900 numbers when you are in your late teens?

GRACE: Bethany, I just wonder what these boyfriends went through. I would love if the prosecution dug a couple of them up. I wonder if she slashed their tires, stalked them, broke into their e-mail account. I think there was one named bobby where she was reading his e-mails and found something that she found to be objectionable. Hold on.


Let`s take some calls. To Greg in Arizona. Hi, Greg. What`s your question?

GREG, CALLER FROM ARIZONA: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?

GRACE: Good, dear.

GREG: I have two questions.

GRACE: OK.

GREG: Are they just going to toss away the gun thing just like they`re tossing away the, oh, I want to commit suicide or I`m going to commit suicide and that`s why I said no jury is going to convict me? Are they going to say that, oh, I had the gun because I was battered and I was going to use it for protection and that takes away from premeditation? I mean -- and also where`s the --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Go ahead.

GREG: And also where is the body language expert? She looks like she`s a narrator, she`s an animated narrator playing with her hand, she -- you know, she`s totally coached.

GRACE: Completely coached. Completely coached. And, you know, another thing I noticed, out to you, Jean Casarez and to you, Aaron Brehove, body language expert.

First to you, Jean. You know, she cried all the way through the trial but she is like a robot on the stand trying to tell the story.

CASAREZ: So far. So far. Until we get to the part about Travis, right? And you know, devil`s in the details, Nancy, as you taught me many, many years ago with one of these boyfriends at least she admitted she was very jealous, that emotion she admits to.

GRACE: And what about it, Aaron? Jean`s confirming it. She cried at the drop of a hat --

AARON BREHOVE, VOICE ANALYSIS AND BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, I think it`s a great --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: -- throughout the trial but now she is testifying like she`s a mannequin in Sachs Fifth Avenue.

BREHOVE: So, yes, you can see that she`s very coached. And she`s a good actress but she doesn`t bring any emotion then. She states things very calmly, she`s comfortable telling these lies. There`s no emotion there. That`s what everybody sees here. That`s why it seems so odd to everybody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: My mom didn`t carry fear factor with her so I think she`s more forced. So her blows felt a lot worse actually.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Physically or emotionally?

ARIAS: Both.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: In that Phoenix, Arizona, courtroom, Jodi Arias on the stand in her own defense.

We are taking your calls. Straight out to Beth Karas.

Beth, what a bombshell day in the courtroom. Jodi Arias on the stand. What did you make of her demeanor?

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION (via phone): Well, let me tell you, first of all, Nancy, after the witness before her finished and court was in like a little hiatus, a little break, I see -- you know, there`s a side bar, and then I see Jodi wander up to the stand and I thought, are they going to say something to her like out of the jury`s presence what`s going on?

Then I realized, oh, no, she`s actually testifying. So it caught all of us by surprise because so many times the defendant will testify at the end of the defense case. But she`s testifying before her expert so her experts can now rely on all the things she`s going to say and it won`t be inappropriate hearsay for them to have said it because she will have testified. So that`s why they put her on first.

Her demeanor, she is very calm. And she has such a recall of detail. Pay close attention when she gets cross-examined. If she continues to have this kind of recall on detail or if she`s going to all of a sudden start to forget things or not remember things. Pay close attention.

GRACE: You know what, Beth, that`s so true. Very often when I would cross-examine a defendant or co-defendant, they would have a great recall until it got to the moment of the crime and then suddenly they were looking the other way, or they don`t remember, it`s just a big blur, I`ve heard that more than once.

Now, Beth, she seems to be testifying very robotically. This is a person that cried at the photo of a dog. All right? And she is -- she is stone cold looking at that jury.

KARAS: She is. And you know what? There was a break in the afternoon in the middle of her testimony. It was the afternoon court break 20, 30 minutes. Her testimony was a little different before and after the break. She looked at the jury after the break. She wasn`t looking at them as much when she was answering the questions. After the break, she was. She`d look at her lawyer for the question and she`d look at the jury as she answered. That was a marked difference I noticed in the afternoon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Sergeant John Rankel, 23, Speedway, Indiana, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Afghanistan Campaign Medal, parents Trisha and Kevin. Step parents Don and Kim, brothers Tyler and Nathan,

John Rankel, American hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: It was a wooden kitchen spoon that she would keep in her purse. If we were misbehaving, she would use it on us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel when your own mother was beating you?

ARIAS: When I was younger, I remember feeling -- I didn`t have a word for it then, but I can describe it as betrayed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Feeling betrayed after her mom spanked her with a wooden spoon, just to put that in context.

Out to Lakeesha in Virginia. Hi, Lakeesha. What`s your question, dear?

LAKEESHA, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hello, Nancy, how are you doing?

GRACE: I`m good.

LAKEESHA: I`m calling, I want to ask a question. You know, Jodi Arias, when she was going to her interview with Detective Flores and she said, well, Travis never hit me, Travis never abused me, he never put his hands on me, he never hurt me emotionally, but I did hurt him emotionally. So how are you going to claim self-defense? How can you call that? That`s to me, that`s not self-defense.

GRACE: Lakeesha, that`s what I`m saying. So if he never abused her in all that time that they were actually dating and then on that day up until about 50 seconds before he was stabbed and down, there was no attack.

So you`re telling me, Beth Karas, in about the defense says -- in about 50 seconds, he attacks her so violently that she runs and gets a knife and a gun and comes out and he`s dead, all of the attack, the running and getting a knife, the gun, and the death all happens in 50 seconds, that`s impossible.

KARAS: Impossible. She had to have had both weapons with her. At least the gun with her. They may say the knife was there anyway because the defense is claiming he had tied her up with some silk rope. But there was no rope found there. There were little pieces consistent with tassels from the pillows that were found in various places in the bedroom on the stairs. But she had to have gone in there with the knife and the gun close by.

GRACE: Beth Karas, Jean Casarez, at the courthouse, Alexis Tereszcuk, what a day in the courtroom.

Everybody, "DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END


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« Reply #142 on: February 05, 2013, 09:54:51 AM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/04/ddhln.01.html
DR. DREW

Jodi Takes the Stand;Child Prisoner Safe

Aired February 4, 2013 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Arias courtroom shocker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense calls Jodi Arias.

PINSKY: Jodi speaks, telling jurors that she wanted to die.

JODI ARIAS, ALLEGED MURDERER: I had plans to commit suicide.

PINSKY: Why she says she had to kill Travis Alexander.

ARIAS: He attacked me and I defended myself.

PINSKY: And how her past may have played into all of this.

ARIAS: My mom began to carry a wooden spoon in her purse. She would hit us with it.

PINSKY: How did she do?

We`ll get into it right now. Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening. Indeed, we`re going to get into this.

Joining me this week, my co-host, psychologist Wendy Walsh.

 ::snipping2::
Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told us that your dad hit you with a belt. Did he leave welts?

ARIAS: He didn`t leave welts as often as my mom, she also used to belt. He would just shove me into furniture, tables, chairs, knocked me out momentarily. My mom began to carry a wooden spoon in her purse. If we were misbehaving, she would use it on us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us to discuss this stunning testimony today, Judge Karen Mills-Francis and forensic psychologist Cheryl Arutt.

But first, I want to go to "In Session" correspondent Beth Karas.

Beth, you were there, was anybody expecting Jodi to take the stand today? I was sitting in my office and I heard people just yelling, Jodi`s going to the witness stand.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": No. At least I had no notice whatsoever and neither did any of the people around me.

Court was in a break, the jury was out of the courtroom. The lawyers had been at a side bar. They go back to their table. The next thing I see, Jodi Arias is walking up to the stand. And I thought, hmm, maybe they`re going to have a little hearing outside the presence of the jury, for some reason, she needs to testify.

Then, I said, no, no, no, they just want to get her on the stand before the jury walks in. And indeed, there she was on the stand, I think it`s because her experts will follow and that she really need to testify before the experts because the experts could not have said what Jodi told them when they`re explaining the conclusions they reach about PTSD and battered women syndrome.

WALSH: So, Beth, was this, you think, a secret they kept? Or do you think they suddenly decided this is the time?

KARAS: Well, no, this was probably their strategy, but it was a secret. I mean, they didn`t want people to know, they didn`t want people to be ready. I suppose they`re hoping that Juan Martinez isn`t ready for his cross- examination of her. But there`s time because at the rate this direct examination is going, he won`t be cross-examining her until Wednesday.

PINSKY: Oh, no kidding. OK. So, yes, she`s got to about age 20 in the testimony today and she`s got to bring us all the way up another decade or so.

Anything stand up for you, Beth?

KARAS: Well, you know, I think what stood out for me is what she didn`t say. I mean, OK. Her parents would knock her around a little bit. But I have covered cases where there`s real abuse. I mean, severe compared to this.

A lot of people around the courthouse are saying, this is abuse? But maybe, you know, it put her in a certain frame of mind to develop tolerance to, you know, abuse. Maybe it became, you know, what she knows and identified with. I don`t know.

But it wasn`t as extreme as I thought. I thought there might have been sexual abuse, none of that. I don`t think she`s lying about this because I think if she was going to lie, I think she would`ve done a better job at it.

WALSH: But, Beth, I think, Dr. Drew, you can explain this.

PINSKY: Yes.

WALSH: But even if you have -- we say just have some kind of physical abuse. It doesn`t have to be sexual. It doesn`t have to be crazy, right?

PINSKY: No. Physical abuse, being hit with an object repeatedly shatters what we call the upper limits of the brain`s ability to regulate. It changes how you regulate your emotions, changes how you relate to people, you no longer can trust.

And it causes a traumatic reenactment pattern that Jodi clearly manifested. She then went out in the world in her young adult life and found boyfriends who were equally abusive if not more so than her parents.

WALSH: So, she actually looked for guys who would be kind of like that?

PINSKY: You notice what she says. She described on the stand that she is at a fair, basically. She`s at a fair, a carnival, and she sees a guy dressed like somebody from the renaissance who is into vampires and she -- her brain goes, that`s the guy I`m attracted to.

Now, if that doesn`t tell you there was huge sort of motivation there, I don`t know what does. And he ends up being a horribly abusive guy that threatens to kill her and her family.

I want to go out to Judge Karen.

Jodi on the stand, a good move or bad, Karen?

JUDGE KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, TV`S "JUDGE KAREN": You know what? There`s very few rules in the law that ever require the defense a burden -- put a burden on the defense, because the defense has alleged self-defense, it`s considered an affirmative defense. That means that the defense has to put forth evidence of abuse and the only person alive that was there is Jodi.

So, how -- you know, they can`t put forth that she was in fear of her life and she used this deadly force unless she testifies, because there`s no other witness. And they have to first put forth evidence of self-defense and then this burden is going to shift back to the prosecution once the defense rests to prove to this jury beyond a reasonable doubt that she wasn`t acting in self-defense.

WALSH: But judge, would they even put her parents? You say no one`s alive to attest to the abuse. Her parents are alive and well. Her mother`s in the courtroom. Would they even call the parents?

MILLS-FRANCIS: No, no, the defense -- the defense to the murder is self- defense.

PINSKY: Right.

MILLS-FRANCIS: So she`s the only person there.

The other problem, though, is that she said her mother broke her brother`s arm and her mother carried around a wooden spoon. Well, mom has been sitting in the courtroom all this time being very supportive. There`s no - -

PINSKY: There she is. She`s right along you.

MILLS-FRANCIS: There`s no parent/child privilege. The state in rebuttal can call mom, can call brother, can call boyfriends.

PINSKY: It will be interesting. So, they may bring them up to see whether or not this is substantiated.

MILLS-FRANCIS: So it`s risky.

PINSKY: But, Karen, I want to know if it passes your sniff test, you`re not one to hold back on your opinions. Let`s have it.

MILLS-FRANSCIS: You mean what I heard today?

PINSKY: Yes.

MILLS-FRANCIS: No, no, no. I heard somebody who is afraid of being electrocuted, killed, executed, however you want to call it --

WALSH: I think that`s all of us, actually.

PINSKY: Her neighbor, I must say --

MILLS-FRANCIS: I mean, but she`s -- no, you know, afraid of the death penalty. This girl has told so many stories.

PINSKY: Yes.

MILLS-FRANCIS: And now, she`s come up with a reason why she said no jury would ever convict me. Oh, because I was going to kill myself.

Guess what you`re going to hear on cross-examination. Why were you going to kill yourself? And why didn`t you kill yourself? It`ll be interesting to see what those answers are.

PINSKY: Cheryl -- yes, Karen, I agree.

Cheryl Arutt, I`m going to give you that question. Why do you think she didn`t?

CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I wonder if she really had any intention to kill herself. She seems to be more dangerous to other people than to herself.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: Seems that way. Seems that way.

ARUTT: I think, you know, in this case, a lot of the people who have similar types of personality issues that I am seeing here are really into self-harm and self-destructive. But this case is different from that.

And when I heard her say she planned to commit suicide, I thought that could really backfire on her because that could come across as that she didn`t really care about her life all that much.

PINSKY: Oh, I see. Interesting.

WALSH: And, Dr. Drew, are they mutually exclusive? If you tend to act out and harm others, does that mean you don`t hurt yourself or both?

PINSKY: Acting in and acting out can be in the same person, right?

Now, let`s talk -- you and I and Cheryl are going to talk about the borderline personality disorder I think we all sort of dancing around as a possibility here. Even though I want to be clear, most -- not most, because someone is a borderline does not mean they`re a murderer or violent.

WALSH: Right. In fact, there`s more chance they`ll do self-harm, I say.

PINSKY: Self-harm and suicide is what you worry and that`s what Cheryl`s alluding to. We`re going to get into all that.

Thank you, Beth Karas, for the report from the ground level.

KARAS: My pleasure.

PINSKY: Next up, more of Jodi`s startling testimony.

And later, what does Travis` friend think of this testimony? He will tell us after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: No jury is going to convict me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?

ARIAS: Because I`m innocent and you can mark my words on that one.

At the time I had plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that no jury would ever convict me because I didn`t expect any of you to be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: We are discussing Jodi Arias` testimony in her own murder trial today.

Back with me this week, my co-host psychologist, Wendy Walsh.

Judge Karen, what do you think of what you heard? You said you were very suspect of the voracity of this woman`s testimony. And I -- what I just heard on the --

WALSH: Voracity, you mean like -- is she telling the truth, right?

PINSKY: Is she telling the truth? But "The Inside Edition" thing seemed so specific. Here`s why no one`s going to convict me and today, we hear, oh, I had a suicide plan.

MILLS-FRANCIS: Right.

You know what I see? I just see a woman on her way to the death chamber.

WALSH: Ooh.

MILLS-FRANCIS: I was looking at the statute in Arizona. Let me tell you about the justifiable use of deadly force. That`s basically self-defense in Arizona.

There`s two elements. There`s a defendant reasonably believed that she was in danger of bodily harm herself. And the second element is that the defendant used no more force than would`ve appeared necessary to a reasonable person.

PINSKY: OK.

MILLS-FRANCIS: That`s the second element here.

PINSKY: Yes.

MILLS-FRANCIS: No more force than what would`ve appeared reasonable -- 27 stab wounds, a gun shot wound, I think that the defense knows what they`re up against. They got to give this woman a defense. She`s got to say something to this jury.

She`s got nothing to lose but her life either way.

PINSKY: Ooh.

MILLS-FRANCIS: I think that just throwing everything at the wall and trying to decide if there`s something that will stick.

WALSH: Well, that is a two-parter, Judge.

And, Dr. Drew, what about, does she have a reasonable belief that she`s going to be attacked? That she`s going to be threatened? But it`s reasonable to her, perhaps, because maybe she`s imagining some of these things.

PINSKY: Right. Now, Wendy, you bring up something really important.

Now, this is a hard thing for our audience to get their head around. And, Cheryl, I`m going to have you ring on this as well.

With the history they`re developing here, this abuse history that they`re alleging which may or may not have happened. If you bring somebody up to say that`s why I was violent, you could also equally argue, Cheryl, could you not, that`s what could make someone distort a relatively minor kind of, you know, move on the boyfriend`s part as some sort of attack. She might flip into some sort of rage state because it reminds her of something of the past.

ARUTT: Yes. Well, you`re alluding to some of the things that happened when people have been traumatized and they get into a habit of disassociating.

PINSKY: Which she sounds, by the way --

WALSH: What is disassociating for people who don`t get that.

PINSKY: How she appears in court today, disassociated.

ARUTT: Disconnected.

PINSKY: Yes, disconnected.

ARUTT: Disconnected, not there. If somebody can`t actually escape from a terrible situation, it`s like they leave in their mind and they cut themselves off from what they`re feeling. And she very well may have had trauma in the first three years of her life that complicated her ability --

MILLS-FRANCIS: The problem is the law -- the law doesn`t ask if Jodi Arias reasonably believes that this was possible.

ARUTT: That`s absolutely right.

MILLS-FRANCIS: The law asked what a reasonable person would have believed they were in danger. That`s the problem.

WALSH: Yes, Judge, if she`s a reasonable person, she wouldn`t be on trial here and she might not have this whatever personality disorder we think she has, right? So how can we expect her to behave reasonably?

ARUTT: Even if they get part one, they`re not going to get part two in self-defense in this case.

FRANCIS-MILLS: They`re not going to get part two.

PINSKY: All right. Let me take a call, guys.

We got Marissa in Pennsylvania wants to ring in here.

Go ahead, Marisa.

MARISA, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Dr. I can`t tell you how disgusted I am. I don`t think any of this testimony even matters. I mean, my God, Jodi is so vile and she`s just as arrogant as can be enough to get up on the stand.

First of all, she attacked a vulnerable, defenseless man who was naked in the shower while she was dressed. To claim that this is self-defense is heinous. Her defense is absolutely beyond -- I can`t even believe. This is disgusting.

WALSH: Well, I wonder -- the question is, I wonder how many jury members feel exactly like you.

PINSKY: That`s going to be interesting.

Let`s hear from Eve in New Jersey.

Eve, you have similar feelings?

EVE, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Dr. Drew, there`s a piece of this puzzle that was missing on what happened in that bedroom. Travis` friends speak about what a great guy he is, he`d give a shirt off their back, but not one of them knew that he was even still seeing Jodi. They didn`t know Travis, he`s a motivational speaker -- by definition good or bad, they`re manipulators.

PINSKY: Eve, Eve, I`m so glad you wanted to hear from one of his friends, because that`s what I have next. I have a good friend of Travis Alexander who is going to react to both, I hope what`ve just said and there he is now and Jodi`s claims of abuse.

And later, I`m going to collect my jurors -- that`s right -- from the scene on -- in the courtroom. They`re in the room with her right now and they`re going to tell us what they`re buying or not buying about what Jodi is selling today.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: The argument escalated and he approached me and spun me around, and he was very much into martial arts, so he had some kind of hold. I guess it was called a stranglehold. So he started strangling me. I almost passed out. I fell on my knees.

I said something to him like -- what did I say? Something to the effect of -- my family would be very upset if they found out what you just did. And then he began to describe in detail how he would kill each member of my family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: There you go. That was Jodi Arias testifying about a violent clash with her former boyfriend. The man she was with prior to Travis Alexander. It was one of her boyfriends way back. We haven`t heard about the history coming forward to Travis yet.

I`m back with my co-host Wendy Walsh.

And joining me now is Travis Alexander`s friend Taylor Searle.

Taylor, thank you for joining us. I really do appreciate it.

WALSH: Hi, Taylor.

TAYLOR SEARLE, TRAVIS ALEXANDER FRIEND: Hello.

PINSKY: How did you react to Jodi`s testimony today?

SEARLE: You know, when I was watching it, I think one of the main things I thought was how out of her league Travis was, as I heard about the other guys from her life and her history.

PINSKY: You mean he wasn`t a vampire?

SEARLE: She had so much going for her.

PINSKY: He wasn`t a vampire?

SEARLE: Yes.

PINSKY: He didn`t strangle girls. He didn`t -- he wasn`t one of the cool kids that she seemed to like?

WALSH: So what did this say to you, though, Taylor?

SEARLE: Travis was going places.

WALSH: Exactly. So, what did this say to you?

SEARLE: It says to me that, I mean, Travis -- Jodi was just the wrong thing at the wrong time for him and just turned out to be a disease that he picked up. And something that dragged him down.

And as he`s going through his life trying to progress, I look back and hear this testimony and I just -- it`s just so -- I`m frustrated that this happened and that people are thinking that because things he did in his personal life made him deserve this or because Jodi`s mom hit her with a wooden spoon, he deserved this. It`s just frustrating and it`s hard to collect all my thoughts amidst all the frustration and kind of anger.

PINSKY: You knew Travis. Tell us who he was and how that stands out against how he`s being painted.

SEARLE: You know, I was just thinking about that caller who just asked that question or made the comment. And who Travis was -- I don`t think we should judge him by what he did in the private moments of his bedroom that now we all know about or the private messages he sent. If you look at the thousands of people whose life he touched and motivated to be better in their lives, that`s who he was -- was someone who wanted to make things better for other people and the things he was trying to overcome in his life, he turned into --

PINSKY: And, Taylor, and let me ask you real quick. He had a pretty traumatic childhood, as well, didn`t he? I keep hearing stories about trouble with his parents and all things?

(CROSSTALK)

SEARLE: Yes, he was effectively homeless. His parents were drug addicts.

WALSH: Really?

SEARLE: He spent a lot of time living in a trailer, in somebody`s backyard, in a tent, a camp site. It was several kids, no parents. It wasn`t until, I think, he was in his young teens that he really lived in a house with a stable guardian.

WALSH: Wow. So he`s come a long way in his growth.

PINSKY: Right.

WALSH: But yet, there was this -- you say thus Jodi. What did you mean?

PINSKY: Well, one thing about males and, Cheryl, I`ll have you ring out on this, as well with Wendy and I. Males that go through emotional abuse can get a little sexual addiction. And I wonder if Judy was an expression of that. And I don`t mean to cast -- I`m not being, I hope you don`t take this as disparaging, it`s just a way of trying to explain what might have happened. As you say, Taylor, a disease. It may be that.

ARUTT: Let`s be clear --

PINSKY: Cheryl, go ahead.

ARUTT: Let`s be clear, though, that even if that were the case, Taylor, nobody is saying that then means that Travis deserved what happened to him. Nobody deserves to be murdered because they do anything in particular in the bedroom.

PINSKY: But it helps us sort of crystallize what Taylor`s saying about Jodi being a disease. She could be that expression of that for him. And she was, of course, manipulating him with all of her stuff and taking advantage of that.

WALSH: What you`re saying is there is a world of difference between --

SEARLE: I`ll tell you. That`s the truth.

WALSH: Go ahead, Taylor?

SEARLE: I was just going to say. That`s the way Travis painted the picture of Jodi to me when we would talk about. He would always prop her up as one of the choices he could make at a crossroads where Jodi would be his booty call option or he could go another direction and find girls to actually marry and settle down.

And that`s kind of what we usually talked about and that`s how he framed her. He was physically attracted to her but that`s pretty much all that was there.

PINSKY: And, unfortunately, she --

MILLS-FRANCIS: Well, I have a question, though --

PINSKY: Karen, real quick, I have 15 seconds. We`ll answer that after the break.

MILLS-FRANCIS: What I`ve read is this woman stalked him, that she slit his tires, that she broke into his Facebook page. Why would he open the door at 4:00 in the morning for her? Why?

WALSH: Exactly, and Dr. Drew`s going to explain, I bet you.

PINSKY: Well, we`re going to get into that, Karen. I`m going to have you reframe that question. We`re also going to talk about a T-shirt and some clothing. What did that tell us about Judy and Travis?
 ::snipping2::

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Travis had a T-shirt made, a T-shirt made proclaiming his ownership of Jodi. Can you tell what`s in this photograph?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears to be a pair of women`s panties, pink in color, and a gray T-shirt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And -- sorry, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gray T-shirt has Travis Alexander -- Alexander`s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That is the extent to which Jodi`s defense team was going to try to portray Travis as sexually manipulative and possessive.

WALSH: But I don`t think it meant much.

PINSKY: I don`t think it does either. It didn`t go very far.

I`m back with co-host Wendy Walsh psychologist, and Taylor Searle. Taylor was a friend of Travis.

Travis, I didn`t make anything of that. I guess you guys had a clothing line at one point. It could have been just a playful thing he was doing, right?

SEARLE: Yes. He and I thought that we could try to make something of it. But it was just for play. And that kind of gives me insight into having real skepticism about these shirts and underwear that they`re saying he made.

I`m willing to bet money he did not make those. And if he did, it was meant as a joke.

WALSH: So you think she did?

SEARLE: Not as I own you. I`m very possessive. I`m guessing she did it.

PINSKY: She may have actually been saying, "Hey, look at me, I`m yours" kind of thing.

WALSH: Yes, someone loves me. He has his name on my butt.

SEARLE: One of the things -- one of the things that makes me think that is right after he was found dead, six hours later, she flooded Facebook with pictures of them almost to try to cast herself as I was his girl. I`m missing my man.

PINSKY: Marking him.

SEARLE: And that`s just her M.O. with me is that she`s trying to establish herself as his.

PINSKY: Now, Karen, I want to go back to you and I want you to ask that question we got before the break of Taylor. Go ahead.

JUDGE KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, TV`S "JUDGE KAREN": Before I do that, though -- you know, and I`m not defending what this defendant did at all. But you know, let`s not rewrite the script. We heard testimony from the victim`s previous girlfriend that they were supposed to get married and he actually broke up with her for Jodi. He converted Jodi to Mormonism.

He took her on trips. He included her on outings with his friends. And for now, one of his friends to say, well, she was just a booty call, I mean, I just don`t think it`s fair to what this relationship was about. I believe these were two damaged people, which takes me back into what i was asking is, if you know this woman is crazy, if you know she`s slashing your tires twice, she`s broken into your Facebook page --

WALSH: Crawled in your doggy door.

MILLS-FRANCIS: Stalking you.

SEARLE: Yes.

MILLS-FRANCIS: Exactly. And that she drives from her state to your state unannounced four o`clock in the morning, you open the door, and you have sex with her. I say it speaks to the dysfunction. It doesn`t justify what happened. But if the victim was a woman and it was the other way around, we would be asking that question.

PINSKY: OK. Taylor, bring us -- bring this -- shed some light on that for us. That is an interesting question.

SEARLE: Well, it`s all points that -- I mean, they`re all facts, but there`s a timeline associated with it. When he did meet her, he was very into her and did go out of his way to spend time with her. But when he broke up with her and when he was dating the other girls, there was a transition point where he shifted gears and really wanted to move away from Jodi.

And that`s when she became the stalker, as we all say. That`s when this crazy behavior started. And --

WALSH: But, Dr. Drew --

SEARLE: And why he opened the door 4:00 a.m. that morning, I have no idea.

WALSH: You have no idea because you`ve never been in that situation. And, you explain to me on the commercial break how this was a perfect storm kind of relationship. Explain to the audience what you meant by that.

PINSKY: Well, it`s hard for people to get their head around, but we have, you know, a woman who may have been severely physically abused who is sort of love addicted and stalking and has these horrible relationships and now finds a nice guy who becomes sort of sexually compulsed with her who himself is an emotional abuse survivor.

Their -- as Karen said, their dysfunction sort of met and got them sticky. Got them stuck together. And that`s why Travis couldn`t get quite away from her, and she wouldn`t allow him to go away because she was stalking him. It is kind of -- at least from the standpoint of what kept them together. It`s kind of a perfect storm of motivational problems.

Same thing, Karen, that got him to open the door at 4:00 in the morning. Anybody healthy goes, what the hell are you doing, boy?

WALSH: Let me tell you, Taylor, if anyone -- any girl was as creepy as Jodi at the very beginning of the relationship, you would have cut it off. But he -- He tried in many ways to kind of wean her, right? It sounded like he was trying to get her off, but yet, he was always pulled back in, usually through sexuality.

PINSKY: It was chipping like a drug addict.

WALSH: Just like a drug.

PINSKY: And listen, and I can`t say this strongly enough, Taylor, and i hope you`ll permit us to have this conversation. We`re just trying to understand it in no way --

WALSH: Oh, we`re not blaming Travis.

PINSKY: No. Travis -- this is -- if anything --

SEARLE: Yes. I`ve taken no offense.

PINSKY: We want to understand so we can -- because it`s complicated to say this one`s all evil and this one`s all -- that`s just simplifying something that`s actually kind of complicated. Nowhere --

MILLS-FRANCIS: And maybe your viewers can learn from this. Your viewers can learn in their own relationships.

PINSKY: That`s exactly the point.

WALSH: Yes. Those viewers need to learn to not open that door.

PINSKY: And Cheryl, give us two seconds on traumatic reenactments and then I`m going to go to Cynthia in Alabama. Go ahead, Cheryl.
PINSKY: Well, it`s hard for people to get their head around, but we have, you know, a woman who may have been severely physically abused who is sort of love addicted and stalking and has these horrible relationships and now finds a nice guy who becomes sort of sexually compulsed with her who himself is an emotional abuse survivor.

Their -- as Karen said, their dysfunction sort of met and got them sticky. Got them stuck together. And that`s why Travis couldn`t get quite away from her, and she wouldn`t allow him to go away because she was stalking him. It is kind of -- at least from the standpoint of what kept them together. It`s kind of a perfect storm of motivational problems.

Same thing, Karen, that got him to open the door at 4:00 in the morning. Anybody healthy goes, what the hell are you doing, boy?

WALSH: Let me tell you, Taylor, if anyone -- any girl was as creepy as Jodi at the very beginning of the relationship, you would have cut it off. But he -- He tried in many ways to kind of wean her, right? It sounded like he was trying to get her off, but yet, he was always pulled back in, usually through sexuality.

PINSKY: It was chipping like a drug addict.

WALSH: Just like a drug.

PINSKY: And listen, and I can`t say this strongly enough, Taylor, and i hope you`ll permit us to have this conversation. We`re just trying to understand it in no way --

WALSH: Oh, we`re not blaming Travis.

PINSKY: No. Travis -- this is -- if anything --

SEARLE: Yes. I`ve taken no offense.

PINSKY: We want to understand so we can -- because it`s complicated to say this one`s all evil and this one`s all -- that`s just simplifying something that`s actually kind of complicated. Nowhere --

MILLS-FRANCIS: And maybe your viewers can learn from this. Your viewers can learn in their own relationships.

PINSKY: That`s exactly the point.

WALSH: Yes. Those viewers need to learn to not open that door.

PINSKY: And Cheryl, give us two seconds on traumatic reenactments and then I`m going to go to Cynthia in Alabama. Go ahead, Cheryl.



CHERYL ARUTT, PH.D., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, when people feel worthless or damaged from trauma, they want something better, but they can`t quite take in something better. So, they want to kind of return to the scene of the crime and have somebody similar enough to the abuser but then make it come out different.

WALSH: That`s a great way to describe it.

ARUTT: Thank you.

PINSKY: And then it ends up being the same. Cynthia in Alabama -- Cynthia.

CYNTHIA, ALABAMA: Oh, yes. Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.

CYNTHIA: Thank you for having me.

PINSKY: Pleasure.

CYNTHIA: I am 57 years old. I was a victim of abuse from my father that was hit with a belt, a bull whip, and was strangled almost to death.

PINSKY: Oh, I`m sorry.

CYNTHIA: I am 57 years old. My father, God bless his soul, was murdered now in 1987. But, I`m telling you right now, there`s no way I was abused as a child would I ever grow up at 57 now and think about doing anything like this to anybody.

PINSKY: Yes.

CYNTHIA: And I`m going to tell you another problem, too. They let Casey Anthony go. There.

(LAUGHTER)

WALSH: That`s a problem.

(LAUGHTER)

CYNTHIA: -- OK.


WALSH: OK. That is -- your story is so tragic, but I want Dr. Drew to explain to us that how some people have a biological predisposition to, you know, have terrible effects of some abuse and some people come out relatively unscathed as it sounds you are.

PINSKY: Resiliency gene, environment interaction, we`ll get to all of that next. We got to go.

Coming up, if there ever was to be an ******* in the courtroom, it was today. I`ll be joined by a couple of women who were there in the peanut gallery there.
 ::snipping2::

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI ARIAS, ON FORMER BOYFRIEND`S PARENTS BEING "HOARDERS": His parents were very heavy smokers, so there was always a haze hanging out in the living room and there was a lot of, I don`t know what it`s called, I guess tar or something running down the walls. It was packed with a bunch of things. I don`t know what it was. Just various odds and ends.

I guess, they were hoarders. The kitchen was very dirty. The bathroom was very dirty. The linoleum was coming off the floor and the shower was kind of falling apart. His parents would sit in the living room all day and watch TV and smoke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: OK. Now in that footage, Wendy, Jodi is describing the home environment of her ex. I think it was the vampire kid. She moved in with this guy for a while and what she`s describing was a living environment where there eventually was no power and they had to like gerrymander something. You see how she described the horrible environment they were living in.

WALSH: I just wanted to go in there with rubber gloves and a mask.

PINSKY: -- clearly like either physically or mentally ill -- and she goes on to say, well, you know what, they end up in a nursing home. All of a sudden, they`re in a nursing home. Like, you`re not going to explain that? I mean, oh, my God. You leave with these people for months and months and they end up in a nursing home?

WALSH: And yet, she could be so attracted to a guy who comes from this home and that`s not a red flag to her. Not only is that a red flag, it may very well be something that attracted her.

PINSKY: Interesting. That is Wendy Walsh, of course, psychologist, my co- host this week.

Now, I want to go out to Cheryl Arutt. I think this speaks volumes about, we were talking earlier, Wendy asked about the gene environment interaction. We`ve been talking about disassociation that disconnect. She describes something horrific. She was living in squalor with parents who were like severely ill.

She seemed to miss all that. They ended up -- people she lived with ended up in a nursing home months later. Oh, well, we go (ph). Don`t you agree that`s -- to me, that was one of the most telling pieces of testimony.

ARUTT: Yes, she was very disconnected from her -- from what she was saying the content of what she was saying. And she has had this sort of flat way of expressing herself whether she`s telling the truth or not telling the truth.

PINSKY: Well, Cheryl, I`m going to stop you. Karen, I think, this is going to -- wants to ring in on that very point. So, go ahead, Karen. Judge Karen.

MILLS-FRANCIS: You know what`s really sad is that we`re all talking about this as though she`s telling the truth.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLS-FRANCIS: This woman has told so many lies. I mean, she`s telling this story and we may hear on rebuttal that there was no such boyfriend and his parents are alive and well and living in Colorado somewhere.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

WALSH: Yes, but could this be her truth? Could she be believing it, you know?

MILLS-FRANCIS: It`s all her truth or it`s all whatever she feels she needs to say to get this jury to have sympathy. I don`t think they have any sympathy for her yet.

PINSKY: I think they -- I think the one thing the defense did do is they made her a little more -- more of a person. And it`s harder to put a person in the electric chair.

WALSH: But you mentioned the word flat before, her delivery. Flat to me means like --

PINSKY: Disconnected.

WALSH: She`s not crying there. You know, her face isn`t even like withholding anything. There`s no real emotion there.

PINSKY: And Taylor, for you, that must have been -- you said frustrating. Imagine, that`s the part that`s almost bordering on offensive.

SEARLE: Yes. I mean, obviously, she`s been doing more than painting in jail. She`s been fabricating this persona that she wants to sell to the jury of I`m wearing these homely shirts and hair and glasses and I look like i couldn`t hurt a mouse and I`m going to talk with a soft voice and look at the jury every time i get a question.

I mean, she`s thought this act through. She`s practiced it, and it`s just, I see it as completely an act.

PINSKY: Hey, Taylor, let me ask you a random question. I was watching her video pretty carefully today. She has like a scar right in the middle of her chin. Was that a piercing scar? Did she have like one of those big knobs in her chin at one time, do you know?

SEARLE: Well, maybe when she was vampire hunting, but I`ve never seen any kind of piercings.

PINSKY: OK. Let`s talk to Susan in Florida. Susan, go right ahead.

SUSAN, FLORIDA: Yes, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.

SUSAN: I`ve been listening to Jodi Arias and her defense team. And, as a trauma nurse who has been on the front lines for defending women, children, even men who have been battered, I am outraged. Just totally outraged that what they are doing is they are making -- it`s an insult to real victims.

And to Travis Alexander, to tell you the truth. This girl, what she`s coming across in her testimony is she acts like somebody that never wanted to have limits placed on her.

PINSKY: Yes, it`s true.

SUSAN: Whether it was as a child --

PINSKY: It`s true.

SUSAN: Whether it was as a young teen.

PINSKY: Yes.

SUSAN: It was -- and Travis telling her no, I don`t want to date you, i do not want to marry you, I am not taking you to Cancun.

WALSH: She doesn`t like the word no. That`s for sure.

SUSAN: She doesn`t like the word no.

PINSKY: And the parents may have become desperate and that may have been what evoked some of the stuff that she`s alleging. But let me ask you this, Susan --

SUSAN: But you know what, there are battered women.

PINSKY: That`s a point. I want to ask Susan. What do you think we do? I bet we`re going to hear experts that are, you know, experts in domestic violence and experts in trauma coming on this courtroom soon. How do we preserve the understanding and the protection for the people who actually are victims?

SUSAN: We have to continue out in the community with our boots on the ground and any -- anybody that works in the mental health profession. Anybody to please always don`t discard or -- if Jodi had come to me and presented herself and asked for my help, you have to always validate their claim when they come to you.

PINSKY: Right. But don`t -- Susan, your point is one, I make all the time, don`t wait until it`s too late. Whether you`re the victim or a perpetrator, your obligation is to reach out to somebody like Susan or Cheryl or Wendy or me, that`s -- once you wait too long, you`re going to get Judge Karen. That`s where you`re going.

MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes.

PINSKY: And that`s --

MILLS-FRANCIS: Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: Karen, real quick. I`ve got to go.

PINSKY: Most battered women are living in a home with the man who`s battering them. OK? They don`t show up at somebody`s house at four o`clock in the morning unexpected and say, oh, my God, i was battered. You should`ve kept yourself in California.

PINSKY: Thank you to Taylor Searle for joining us. I do appreciate it. Also Judge Karen Mills-Francis, Karen, it`s always a pleasure. Dr. Cheryl Arutt, thank you, as well.

Next up, we`re going to talk to my jury. We call it my jury. This is a couple of women who actually eyewitnesses to Jodi`s testimony. They were in the courtroom. And later, what is next for the little boy hostage just freed from an underground bunker.

WALSH: That`s the one I want to talk about.

PINSKY: You and I will talk about it. It`s all coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I`m back with my co-host this week, psychologist, Wendy Walsh. It is time for what we call Dr. Drew`s jury. We have not convened our jury since the Casey Anthony case. It is insight from observers inside the Arias courtroom. Incredible day to be there.

Joining us are Katie Wick and Kathy Monkman. Both had front row seats when Jodi Arias was suddenly called to the witness stand. Katie, I`m going to go to you first. You`ve been to other trials. You heard this testimony before. Does this testimony pass the sniff test for you? What does your instinct tell you?

KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": Well, first of all, Drew, when we heard that she was going to come testify, you could hear a pin drop. It was absolutely incredible. We were shocked. Based on the testimony we heard today, absolutely not. She looks real cute and real soft and delicate. She has a little side ponytail, a little blouse.

Some of the jurors, they started to kind of get tired. They started to start yawning and rubbing their eyes, leaning back in their chair. They stopped writing so many notes as they were when she took the stand. Absolutely not. I don`t believe one word coming out of her mouth.

PINSKY: Interesting. And Kathy --

WALSH: You`re saying the jury sort of sat up on their seats and stopped losing the yawns? Does that what you mean? When she came up?

WICK: No, they started sitting up -- yes, when she came up, they were very interested, taking copious notes, and then, towards the end about 30 minutes in when we were on, i think it was boyfriend number two or three, they sat back and they just we have a lot of them to get through still. So --

PINSKY: Yes, that`s right. I mean, that`s right. We`ve got another decade or so. Kathy, now, you`ve been to other trials. You guys see -- see, you know, I`m a clinician. I don`t have a frame of reference to know whether this testimony passes the sniff test when someone`s in the position that Jodi Arias is.

We`ve heard Judge Karen saying, no, this is just a woman trying to save her life. Kathy, what do you think?

KATHY MONKMAN, DR. DREW "JUROR": Oh, I think that she`s completely bland. I think that her affect does not match at all what she`s saying. When she said she was nervous, she doesn`t appear nervous. I found her rambling in her details very incredible. The things she can remember, the things she can`t remember. I did not find the jury very compassionate toward her.

Just I had a perfect view of the jury and of Jodi. I didn`t see any of them like leaning forward in those kind of behaviors that you do when you are compassionate toward someone and listening to their story. I just frankly didn`t believe most of what she was saying anyway. The wooden spoon, none of it. I didn`t buy it.

WALSH: So, you two were in the courtroom all day listening to it. And you don`t believe it. Do you think there`s a chance any of the jurors believed it?

WICK: Yes, I do. And that`s what I`m fearful of, especially after the Casey Anthony trial. I just -- even though she didn`t take the stand, I just feel Jodi -- we know from the outside looking in what we know the intricacies that had been on the press and the media. So, the jury doesn`t. And I think that she could have a chance that she continues to play this woe is me.

I was abused, therefore, it justifies me killing, brutally murdering my boyfriend. I think it possibly could.

PINSKY: Kathy, let me -- Kathy disagrees, but let me sure I heard Kati. Are you saying not just that she won`t get the death penalty, but she might basically walk?

WALSH: Well, she can`t just walk.

WICK: I don`t think she`s going to get the death penalty.

PINSKY: OK. That`s what you`re saying. She`s admitted to killing the guy, if it`s self-defense.

WICK: Right.

PINSKY: Kathy disagree, go ahead.

MONKMAN: I disagree because what she`s saying, even if you just look at the content of what she`s saying, first of all, you have to believe her. And this jury already knows she`s an accomplished liar. And her affect is not matching her words. She does not come across as credible.

But if you just take the words of what she`s saying, even the words -- this is not severe abuse. And a lot of those jurors are going to have experienced the exact same thing and they didn`t grow up and murder somebody brutally.

PINSKY: OK. That`s different.

(CROSSTALK)

MONKMAN: She didn`t have bones broken.

WALSH: Ladies, you got to listen to this. I`m always amazed, Dr. Drew, when people, the general public, the general belief, is that if you were sexually abused, if you were only knocked unconscious once that it`s not that bad.

PINSKY: It can be bad for a given individual. We all come into our life with our genetic reserves, our resiliency, and some people can be relatively minor --

WALSH: And we`re talking about a small child.

PINSKY: I understand. None of this is good, ladies. Please don`t think that any of this if it happened to anybody is an OK thing. It`s parenting at its worst whether it`s small "T" or big "T" trauma. It`s all not good. But listen, you guys, thank you very much. I want to have you back. Are you going to be in the courtroom tomorrow?

WICK: We will be in the courtroom the rest of this week.

MONKMAN: I`m not tomorrow.

PINSKY: Well, I`ve got to get you guys back in here and hear more what you say because you give us that sensibility we just can`t get, unless, we`re in the room and you guys have seen other trials. I really appreciate you being here.
 ::snipping2::

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
 ::snipping2::

PINSKY: And I hope they take advantage of that because those are available. Wendy, thank you, really interesting day. Good to see you, as well. Jodi Arias, weback on the stand tomorrow. And I will have Wendy back, I will have my great panels together for you guys, as well. I want to thank you all for watching. Thank you all who called in tonight. You`re excellent callers.

And a reminder that "NANCY GRACE" starts right now.

END




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MuffyBee
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« Reply #143 on: February 05, 2013, 03:47:12 PM »

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-boyfriends-witchcraft-buddhism-hinduism-mormonism/story?id=18411629
Jodi Arias Followed Boyfriends Into Witchcraft, Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormonism
February 5, 2013

Accused murderer Jodi Arias testified over the last two days about a flurry of boyfriends and how she followed them into exploring a string of religions including witchcraft, Buddhism, Hinduism and eventually Mormonism.

Arias, 32, has yet to tell the jury about meeting Travis Alexander, the ex-boyfriend who baptized her into the Mormon religion and who she is charged with killling in a jealous rage in 2008. She is now on trial in Arizona for his murder and could face the death penalty if convicted.

Her odyssey through boyfriends and the spiritual world included a five year period from age 18 through age 22 when Arias said she became very interested in fundamentalist Christianity, Wicca, Buddhism, and Hinduism, all of which she explored as she dated men who practiced those beliefs.
More...

Video at Link
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« Reply #144 on: February 05, 2013, 05:02:53 PM »

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-boyfriends-witchcraft-buddhism-hinduism-mormonism/story?id=18411629
Jodi Arias Followed Boyfriends Into Witchcraft, Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormonism
February 5, 2013

Accused murderer Jodi Arias testified over the last two days about a flurry of boyfriends and how she followed them into exploring a string of religions including witchcraft, Buddhism, Hinduism and eventually Mormonism.

Arias, 32, has yet to tell the jury about meeting Travis Alexander, the ex-boyfriend who baptized her into the Mormon religion and who she is charged with killling in a jealous rage in 2008. She is now on trial in Arizona for his murder and could face the death penalty if convicted.

Her odyssey through boyfriends and the spiritual world included a five year period from age 18 through age 22 when Arias said she became very interested in fundamentalist Christianity, Wicca, Buddhism, and Hinduism, all of which she explored as she dated men who practiced those beliefs.
More...

Video at Link


Is anyone watching this crazy bitz testifying? Painful. I just want to be an attorney & jump up & shout ....Relvance?!?!?!?! Do we need to hear her whole life story?! Is this their way of trying to humanize her & make her into a poor little victim all her life? I swear if this jury buys her self defense crap i will be sick!
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« Reply #145 on: February 05, 2013, 05:47:12 PM »

Hi kcrn  No, I haven't been watching.  I don't think I could stomach it.  I've been following along reading articles, transcripts and the occasional video snippet.
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« Reply #146 on: February 05, 2013, 08:21:30 PM »

Hi kcrn  No, I haven't been watching.  I don't think I could stomach it.  I've been following along reading articles, transcripts and the occasional video snippet.
Good idea muffy. Watching it will bore u to tears. I just want it to end already so we can get a verdict. If she walks i will lose all hope in the common sense of people in this country. We had 14 idiots in florida. Lets hope the brain function of arizona is at least average. A little common sense is all that is necessary in both of these cases.
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« Reply #147 on: February 06, 2013, 12:15:17 AM »

Kcrn
Lol ! I think her plan to be humanized is failing.
She claimed to break off other relationships that she claimed were not healthy! Yet she meets Travis and doesn't stop him from performing oral sex on her! Within a week!  Where were her good girl common sense morals? Oh pleeeze!
She's making herself look bad! I tooo hope this jury doesn't follow the way of the Casey jury!
When will her defense quit questioning her! So that prosecutor Martinez Can Discredit! Her ! She was already climbing on top of Bryan burns? Didnt he say she was very aggressive .
Travis  wasnt even cold in his grave yet! 

Kcrn I hope there's justice for Travis
Nobody deserves to die in that brutal way.
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« Reply #148 on: February 06, 2013, 04:40:00 PM »

Oh I can't wait for Martinez to cross examin her!
Gag me with a wooden fork!
This is soooo xcruciating to listen to this little innocent victim ( not )
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« Reply #149 on: February 06, 2013, 04:41:14 PM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/05/ijvm.01.html
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Stunning from Stand in Jodi Arias Case

Aired February 5, 2013 - 19:00:00   ET


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, stunners from the witness stand. As Jodi Arias spins a tale of how her relationship with Travis Alexander rapidly escalated into graphic sexual encounters that she explained with embarrassment to the jurors.

What went so terribly wrong that caused her to act with such violence? We`re going inside the mind of Jodi Arias right now, and we`re going to debate it with four of America`s top lawyers. Is she going for the hypocrisy defense?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, Jodi Arias fights for her life on the stand. The accused murderer spills dark secrets about her tumultuous dating history in front of the jury and the world. But as she recounts every detail of her life, what are the jurors thinking? Do they believe her?

Our panel of experts will analyze and debate whether this rehearsed performance is humanizing Jodi or making her seem like a robotic, cold- blooded killer. Plus, our team is inside the courtroom with the latest. And we`re taking your calls.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: Out of the corner of my eye, I saw somebody walking toward me. I did get the impression that he was trying to impress me, because he was talking about income. He looked like he had purpose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine-one-one emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead. I`m standing in his bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were, to some degree, getting intoxicated by the success you were seeing.

ARIAS: He stepped right in front of me and stuck his hand out and introduced himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that Travis?

ARIAS: Yes.

I was always a server, not the guest.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, ARIAS`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander.

ARIAS: That kind of opened my eyes to the reality that you really can be successful in this company, and it`s not just a fly-by-night company or any kind of get-rich-quick scheme.

He leaned in very close, as if he wanted to kiss me. And he was licking his lips and he was staring at my lips. And Travis wants to know if I would go to the executive director banquet with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Had her arms around him while he was talking to everybody else and he did not reciprocate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When did you first kiss Mr. Alexander?

ARIAS: He came into the bedroom I was staying in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, super stunners in the Jodi Arias murder trial as Jodi puts the jurors in her shoes and takes them step by step through what she says is her relationship with Travis Alexander, including how she describes their first sexual encounter. It`s a shocker.

Will the jury believe she was the victim of abuse, forced to defend herself, or a cold-blooded killer?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.

The stunning 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, slit his throat from ear to ear, and shot him in the face. But she claims it was all done in self-defense.

From the moment Travis and Jodi met at a glittering Las Vegas casino, Jodi says Travis aggressively pursued her, even giving her a dress to go to a gala, a black-tie gala, even though Jodi claims she was reluctant and uncomfortable.

She says by the time they had a rendezvous at a friend`s house, things got very sexual and steamy. We have to warn you, this is very graphic language, but this is what she said in open court just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: This is embarrassing.

He began to perform oral sex on me.

I was uncomfortable. It was dark, and the lights were off. So that might have made it a little bit more -- I mean, a little more tolerable. But it was -- I don`t know. I mean, he knew what he was doing for sure. But it was just -- it felt like too much too soon. And I mean, I couldn`t exactly rewind at that point. You know?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you voice your discomfort?

ARIAS: I didn`t want him to have that impression. I wanted to -- I wanted to at least appear like I was enjoying it as much as he seemed to be. I guess it would have seemed to me to be unattractive for -- for me to say anything different or anything negative about the experience.

He asked for reciprocation. He had his temple garments under...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you perform oral sex upon him at that time?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where?

ARIAS: In my mouth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Very graphic stuff indeed.

I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our own senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. Selin, you were in court for this blush-inducing testimony where she talks about oral sex between -- performed on her, performed by her on him. Tell us what you heard and the reaction in the courtroom.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Jane, I mean, we saw a Jodi that was embarrassed. She was shy. She didn`t want to get into the -- into the sexual stuff. And they asked her about her first kiss. And you saw Jodi, and she was looking down. And she would pause and she would -- she would, you know, blush. And it was uncomfortable for her.

We saw a very, very innocent Jodi on the stand. And she told us the first time they kissed that Travis was aggressive, that Travis made them have oral sex the first time that -- she just thought they were going to kiss, but it went much further than what she thought was going to happen. And she didn`t want to displease him, because she really wanted to go along with what he wanted to do, even though that`s not what she wanted to do.

And it was incredible. I have to tell you, the end of the courtroom today, the end of the day -- the trial today, her testimony was definitely -- I felt like she was acting on the stand. And she was definitely giving us this very, very innocent Jodi, and she was playing it up.

And the jury wasn`t -- they were listening to her, and they weren`t taking notes. They were just listening to her, but you couldn`t tell whether they -- were they buying this or were they not? We couldn`t tell from their expressions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And remember, the jury is not a monolithic group. It`s -- what is it? Eleven plus six. Twelve plus six alternates. Eighteen people, I believe. I mean, there`s a lot of people listening to this. All you need is a couple of them to have a reaction, and this prosecution could have a problem.

Now, listen to how Jodi says she felt after performing oral sex on Travis in her car.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel after that encounter?

ARIAS: I don`t -- I don`t recall feeling really bad. Maybe just a little deflated. He wouldn`t -- he refused to kiss me afterward, because he said it was gross. Maybe that`s because I had just performed oral sex. But that`s what he said. And so he kissed me on the cheek.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the family of Travis Alexander -- you see them in court, they are furious, because I think they correctly sensed that this is a blame-the-victim defense. This is a defense where Jodi Arias and her attorneys are essentially trying to point out Travis`s hypocrisy, if you believe everything that Jodi is saying, which is a big leap right there. She has been known to lie.

But let`s bring in our legal team: Jordan Rose, Wendy Murphy, Brian Silver, Evangeline Gomez. We`ve got four excellent attorneys.

If I had to boil it down, I would say that this is the hypocrisy defense. They are painting a picture of Travis Alexander, the victim, as someone who was handing her the Book of Mormon at a Starbucks and then asking her and getting oral sex in a car, even though Mormonism calls for celibacy.

He`s talking to her about Mormonism, sending Mormon missionaries to her house, while he is again demanding more oral sex from her.

I don`t know if any of this happened. This is coming out of her mouth. But is it effective? And let`s start with Evangeline Gomez, defense attorney.

EVANGELINE GOMEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Today`s testimony is showing that she is a lifetime victim of domestic violence. She experienced it at the hands of her parents, in her teenage relationships, in her adult relationships.

And the fact that she feels uncomfortable saying no to Travis, that he`s calling her every day, is further evidence that she is a true victim of domestic violence.

For anyone to suggest that we`re flipping the script by saying that he`s the victim, you`re not understanding, and you`re not paying attention to what Jodi is saying on the stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jordan Rose, attorney, Phoenix, Arizona.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Oh, can we trust anything that Jodi would ever say on the stand when she`s lied about every single thing? And I cannot wait for the prosecutor to get up there and put her on the spot.

But here, you know, you go, is the jury looking at her and saying, you know, are these just 20-something-year-old kids and this is a normal relationship and no 20-something-year-old kid -- no reasonable person would react to this situation by thinking it was abusive and -- and snapping like that.

I mean, it`s almost like today was a pull-the-heartstrings -- yesterday was a pull-the-heartstrings sort of defense. There`s no legal self-defense. It`s almost the Casey Anthony blame the daddy, blame the mommy, blame the boyfriends.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Brian Silver.

BRIAN SILVER, ATTORNEY: The first thing we need to understand is that this is a case with a lot of moving parts.

No. 1, her testimony`s not only going to establish that she`s acting in her own self-defense, but it`s for later on in the penalty phase, because she needs to establish not only what she did but why she did it. And if she acted under duress, that would be a mitigator against imposing the death penalty.

And we may not like what she has to say. The family may find it offensive. But that doesn`t mean it`s not true, because sometimes a kiss is not just a kiss. And that`s what the defense is going to explain later.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Wendy Murphy.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Look, let me be clear. She`s lied so much there`s a very good chance nobody in that jury believes any of this. And they have seen her act like this when falsely claiming to not even have been at the crime scene. And they`re going to correlate her demeanor then to the demeanor now and feel like they`re -- she`s trying to put one over on them.

I mean, if they think she`s lying now, they`re going to pull the switch faster at the penalty phase.

Here`s the thing I think she`s trying to do. It`s clear she`s trying to act like a little girl. She`s 32 years old. I half expected her to pull out a lollipop and put pigtails on the way this -- this was pure theater today. And jurors who feel manipulated will come back with a vengeance.

I think when she starts talking about "I didn`t want to have sex and he made me have sex" to make him look like the bully when they know he can`t stand up and say, "Hey, I gave you oral sex. You loved it. We had a wonderful time. We had bubble bath and champagne." To make him look like the sexual aggressor with the jury knowing he can`t get back up there and say...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But my question...

MURPHY: ... "You are a sexually aggressive woman, too."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But my question for all of you to think of, we`re going to cover it after the break. All it takes is one juror, perhaps a woman who has had a degrading sexual experience where she felt forced into oral sex with some guy and who has empathy for what she`s telling. Could that be all that the defense needs to hang their hat on?

We`ve got much more explosive testimony -- and I mean really stunning testimony -- from Jodi Arias coming up right after the break. And we`re taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me and I defended Myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you comply?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: I felt -- I felt an attraction to him. And the feeling was mutual. And I wanted to -- I just wanted to -- I don`t know. I wanted to do what he wanted to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi painting this picture of being a young woman, sort of stars in her eyes, and being -- essentially she`s claiming she was taken advantage of by the victim, Travis Alexander, who was a religious person, a devout Mormon supposedly, supposed to not have sex at all; and claims that Travis gave her a book of Mormon and a couple of minutes later is demanding oral sex from her.

I want to go to Wendy Walsh, psychologist with DatingAdvice.com.

Hypocrisy, even if he is -- even if he did exhibit this hypocritical behavior -- we don`t know that -- is not an excuse to murder someone. I mean, if we killed every hypocrite, we would have far fewer people on this planet. We are all guilty of hypocrisy to a certain degree. I certainly am.

But yet, could the hypocrisy defense resonate with women who may have had an experience where they`re forced into -- they feel obligated to perform oral sex on a guy and still resent it to this day?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s funny that you bring that up, Jane, because you know you and I have talked about before about what a high- supply sexual economy we`re in right now, where sex is really cheap and a lot of young women are being forced to do things.

There`s research on this. Women are reporting that they`re being forced to do -- perform sexual acts that are like what`s going on in the porn that the guys are becoming addicted to online, and they don`t feel comfortable about it. They have negative feelings. But they think if they stand up to a guy early in the relationship, he`ll abandon them and move on. Jodi is textbook in this way.

But you`re also right. It`s still not an excuse to murder. And that`s really what we`re talking about here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Jean Casarez, give us the gender breakdown in the jury right now. I know they haven`t pulled out the -- Beth Karas. I know they haven`t pulled out the alternates at this point. But what`s the gender makeup?

JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": There are 11 men and 7 women on the jury. There are two rows. Nine in each. And they have been fixed on her all day today.
I did see two men and two women earlier in the day taking notes. Not so much later in the day. But they`re paying very close attention.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think there could be a gender impact here?

CASAREZ: You know, I don`t know. I mean, she is a little seductress, certainly with men. I don`t know how she`s going to stand up, though, on cross-examination. Everything she`s saying right now is going unchallenged. Do we know that what she`s saying is actually the truth? I don`t know.

I mean, all the jury knows about her at this point is all the lies she has told the police and all her handiwork in the brutal slaying of Travis Alexander.

So this is her opportunity to really persuade them. But she`s going to be challenged on cross, I think, in a big way.

And I want to add, Jane, she was very aggressive sexually with Ryan Burns just hours after killing Travis Alexander, and her boyfriend before Travis, Darryl Brewer, said that their first sexual encounter she was quite enthusiastic. So both of those men say things contrary to the way she is describing herself and her first sexual experiences with Travis Alexander.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent point, Beth. And I think the prosecutor needs to certainly emphasize that on cross-examination.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Hannah, Massachusetts, your question or thought -- Hannah.

CALLER: Hi, Jane. My theory is that the defense is trying to paint a picture that, because Travis was struggling so much with his chastity and with, you know, being Mormon and wanting to be sexual at the same time that perhaps he was acting out, he was trying to kill her, and that`s why she had to defend herself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s interesting. Jon Lieberman, very quickly, what does this prosecutor need to do on cross-examination to take back the power in this case?

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, just meticulously dissect her lies. That`s exactly what Mr. Martinez is going to do. He`s going to point out that liars have selective memories.

And as you heard today Jodi Arias on the stand, some things she could recall in graphic detail, and yet some of the more controversial questions, "Oh, I don`t recall."

Mr. Martinez is going to continue to go after her, show her as a liar, show her as, frankly, an embarrassment to everybody who is a true victim of domestic violence, and he will just dissect her piece by piece.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But he has to be very careful. He has shown to be very aggressive in his cross-examination, sometimes even on his direct examination. And if he gets too rough with her, could it backfire and create more sympathy for this soft-spoken defendant, who sometimes the jurors say they can`t even hear?

More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: They use the term "entertrainment." It`s entertaining training. Do you know what I`m saying? It`s entertaining training, I guess you could say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I saw somebody walking toward me, kind of fast-paced. And I noticed it was a guy, and I thought that he was going somewhere, because he looked like he had a purpose. So I stepped out of the way, except he need to walk past me. But he stopped right in front of me and stuck his hand out and introduced himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that is Jodi Arias describing the moment that Travis Alexander introduced himself to her in a Las Vegas -- a glittery Las Vegas convention for Prepaid Legal, and then later invited her, according to her, to some kind of Prepaid gala where he came up with a dress for her at the last moment. She`s painting him as being very much in pursuit of her.

Well, I have to tell you that you could tell from looking at the gallery that Travis Alexander`s family was very, very upset as Jodi Arias has sort of now gotten free rein to tell her whole life story and put whatever spin she wants on any events.

So how do the family members and the friends of the victim, Travis Alexander, feel? Well, we are very, very honored to have with us tonight a very good friend of victim Travis Alexander, Taylor Searle.

You`ve been in court all day. You are a friend of the victim. Your reaction to what you`ve heard in court today from Jodi Arias`s mouth.

TAYLOR SEARLE, FRIEND OF VICTIM: Well, after she was done recounting all of her witch training, it seemed that she was actually talking about my friend for the beginning of her testimony, when she talked about running into him in Las Vegas and how he was pursuing her and how he was almost a gentleman in pursuing her. That sounded like my friend.

And I remember coming away thinking she`s actually making him sound like a pretty good guy, the way that he almost inspired her to want to change her life around and want to aspire to greater things.

But when she got into the stories about him meeting her and handing her a Book of Mormon in one hand and then asking for sexual favors in the other, that didn`t sound like my friend. And it seems like there`s -- she`s taking a lot of liberty with the things that can`t be proven or disproven in telling the story she wants to tell.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what do you think the prosecution needs to do to puncture her stories?

SEARLE: I mean, like a lot of people have said, if they can just show that she is a great liar and that she`s a great actor, or actress, sorry, and that she has rehearsed these things, and that when she`s asked questions that aren`t necessarily things that she`s made up yet, it`s going to be shown that she`s a liar, and that she doesn`t have her defense counsel leading her on, telling her what to say. And I think that it`s just going to -- the truth is going to be found out just because she won`t be able to keep it up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we would love to have you stay with us. We have so many more questions for you. And I`m sure many of our callers do, as well.

We are far from done. We`re just getting started. Much more from Jodi Arias`s mouth on the witness stand today.

And top of the hour, Nancy Grace has her take on this explosive day in court, 8 and 10 p.m.

But more right on the other side of the break. Your calls, and our legal team will debate what does the prosecution need to do?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you get jealous? Did you get angry at him?

ARIAS: What`s my motive?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jealousy? Anger? Fear? Fear of being alone?

ARIAS: I found Darryl very attractive. He was tall...

ARIAS: I found Daryl very attractive. He was tall, you know, handsome, beautiful eyes. I kind of saw him as like a George Clooney type.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Became infatuated and fell in love.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI ARIAS` DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What would have forced Jodi? It was Travis`s continual abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever hit you?

ARIAS: I got knocked in the head once by my dad. He just pushed me against the wall and I hit my head and I fell.

I was kind of becoming tired of the discipline.

I would have expected him to not be the one that cheated on me.

Our argument escalated, and he approached me and spun me around.

WILLMOTT: Travis grabbed her and spun her around.

ARIAS: I was very confident that no jury would convict me because I planned to be dead. Probably the most bitter words I`ll ever eat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight Jodi Arias on the stand again today, and is she seizing control of this case? Spending hours and hours on her tale of woe, taking us back to her childhood, claiming her parents beat her, a high school boyfriend allegedly tried to strangle her. And now she has focused on her relationship with Travis Alexander saying that he aggressively pursued her after meeting her at a convention in Las Vegas and then was very quick to not only try to get her to go into prepaid legal but also to join Mormonism. And as he`s handing her a Book of Mormon -- this is all according to her -- minutes later he`s asking oral sex and receives oral sex from her in a car.

Listen to the sound bite, and then we are going to debate it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you comply?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: I felt -- I felt an attraction to him. And the feeling was mutual. And I wanted to -- I just wanted to -- I don`t know. I wanted to do what he wanted to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And yes, she says she did give Travis Alexander oral sex in a car. Again, this is her story.

Now, the prosecutor is not objecting a lot. I have to ask our legal panel about that. And once he gets his turn, what should this prosecutor do to - - listen, let me say this -- the prosecution has painted this portrait of Jodi Arias as a vengeful, rageful, jealous stalker. And in the last couple of days what she has done is taken a giant eraser. Ok? And it`s as if -- I think you need to come back for the full effect of this on me -- as if she is erasing this very careful portrait that the prosecution has created of her as this dangerous, vengeful, jealous woman who was stalking Travis Alexander, who`s violent, who viciously killed him. And in its place they are painting this portrait of this little -- oh, this sweet little angel flower who feels like I can`t say no to oral sex. What does the prosecutor have to do to put his original portrait back in the frame starting with Wendy Murphy?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, the prosecutor doesn`t have to do very much because I`m sure pointing out the lies and emphasizing her pictures where she`s clearly expressing herself as sexually aggressive will put all this nonsense out of the jury`s mind very quickly. And I`m not that worried about the prosecutor -- I`m a little bit worried that the experts are going to take the stand and give her some validation. Prosecutors can handle that stuff pretty easily.

I know one of the guys. Dr. Bob Gefner is supposed to testify for her. I`ll have to whack him upside the head next time I see him. But to the extent he says -- this is what I think they`re going to say -- she was repressed because of all abuse and it stayed in her and then she just exploded. That`s why there was the overkill. She`s finally exploded.

Nobody`s going to buy it --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Brian. Brian --

MURPHY: How much are you getting? How much are you getting to --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian wants to jump in. Let the guys talk. Jon, start.

JON LEIBERMAN: I agree with her. I mean here`s the thing that we`re missing. If she was so afraid of Travis Alexander, why did she drive all that distance to go and see him? Why did she bring a gun and a knife to his house? And then why did she hack into his voicemail after she killed him? And why did she post all these pictures online "In loving memory of Travis Alexander"?

I mean that`s exactly what prosecutors are going to point out -- all of those things. Not to mention that --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hold on.

LEIBERMAN: -- if you listen closely to the testimony, real quick, she broke up with every boyfriend prior to Travis. He was the only one who rejected her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Brian Silber.

BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If they have any chance of winning, they need to do two things. Number one, not harp on the lies, not harp on the details of the murder. The jury already knows this stuff. If you`re just going to hit rewind and play a thousand times, you`re going to lose your jury.

What they`ve got to do is get into the details. If I was the prosecutor, I would start off by asking her, let me ask you this. When you killed him, did you shoot him first or did you slice his neck? You get into the details. You want to talk about self-defense? Who hit who first? Where were you standing? Where was he standing? What did you do with the knife? What did you do with the gun? Because if she is lying that`s where she`s going to fall apart.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me say -- let`s show some autopsy stuff while we talk about this because you bring it back to a very important point. It`s not just her. We`ve got to bring it back to the victim and what was done to him. And we`ve got some of the gruesome autopsy photos we`ll show you.

Evangeline Gomez, criminal defense attorney.

EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, the prosecutor has a lot of problems here. We`ve heard testimonies from ex-boyfriends. We`ve heard her testimony stating that prior to meeting Travis Alexander men cheated on her, they abused her, and she didn`t -- she wasn`t violent toward them and she certainly didn`t kill them.

Second, she is a victim of domestic violence. She`s doing everything she can to protect even those men who have abused her. So if you hear lies, it doesn`t mean that she deserves the death penalty. It`s a symptom of being a victim of domestic violence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree with you. I think a lot of this is simply throwing herself on the mercy of the jurors and say don`t kill me. Whatever you do, don`t kill me.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Debbie in New York -- your question or thought -- Debbie in New York.

DEBBIE, NEW YORK (via telephone): Hi, Jane. How are you?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good.

DEBBIE: Jane, you couldn`t have said it any better with that big eraser because I`m thinking the same thing. She`s -- she is just going to knock the wind out of the prosecutor`s sails. I am finding her quite likeable, quite believable.

I mean I hate what she did, and I`m very sorry, Taylor, for your friend, your loss of your friend. But this gal is mesmerizing. I`m sitting at the edge of my seat. She is articulate. She`s intelligent. She`s poised. Her mannerisms -- if this is theatrics, whoever her coach is, kudos to the coach, the best.

And I think the prosecutor`s going to have a very difficult time with her. She`s going to give him a run to his money because he`s a bully and nobody likes a bully, because I don`t like him at all. And the jurors are not going to like him if he`s going to treat her the way he`s been treating other people.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Debbie, interesting comments. Wendy Walsh, psychologist - - women on the jury may react differently than men.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, absolutely. This jury, it`s an interesting selection of jury with 11 men. I think that the attorneys thought -- or certainly her defense attorneys must have thought that she would be beguiling enough and flirtatious enough that the men would feel sorry for her.

Now she`s doing a kind of case where the women might feel sorry for her because maybe she was a victim of this domestic violence. So maybe she`s playing each gender in a different way. To the men she`s going to flirt and she`s going to be sultry and she`s going to be the seductress. To the women she`s going to go the victim of domestic violence or being -- having been forced to do sexual acts that she didn`t want to. So it`s interesting to see her testimony as it plays very separately to these two genders.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to ask Jean Casarez on the other side of the break, are there any Mormons? Do we know, are there any Mormons amongst the jurors? More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: At that point, I had taken it that far, I was kind of glad he was done, and I was just going to reciprocate at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so we`re clear, when you say reciprocate, does that mean perform oral sex on him?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias on the stand and we`ve been analyzing her testimony and comparing it to her police interrogation tapes. Have we found a pattern of the lies? We will present the evidence to you and you decide on the other side of the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In that year and eight months did he ever hit you?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever call you a whore?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A slut?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wonder?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Miss Arias as a, quote, Three (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wonder?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Hearsay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a slut?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a whore?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jean Casarez, you heard the defense attorney ask Jodi Arias, did another ex-boyfriend, not Travis, ever call you and use those offensive terms? What was the point of that?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": It`s very interesting. Her life pre-Travis and her life after Travis -- that`s what the defense is going after. Because her relationships, although they were rocky, although she made all the decisions in them, it appears as though, there was a level of respect -- absent all the cheating -- there was a level of respect that seemed to not be there with Travis. I think as the testimony`s going to go on -- according to the defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines quickly. Regina, New York -- your question or thought. Regina.

REGINA, NEW YORK (via telephone): Yes, Jane. I have a question and a comment. She talked about not being there, that she was going to kill herself. When did she think about that? After she killed him or she was grinding on the other guy? Or when she was trying to flee? Or when she was singing in jail?


And my comment is with her on the stand I think she`s telling some truth but I think she has the roles reversed because nobody has substantiated that Travis ever had sex with anybody. So he may have been a virgin. And she was just, you know, a temptation, an addiction that he couldn`t stop because of the lust. And that`s what she used with him.

And I think when she went there she used all she could use and when he still didn`t take her to Cancun that was it -- so. And I believe she was the sexual aggressor.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Shanna Hogan, journalist and author of "Picture Perfect", she may be describing let`s say, let`s say even what she is describing is true -- and that`s a big leap right there. But that doesn`t prove self-defense. There is no excuse. Hypocrisy is certainly no excuse for murder. Again, if we were to kill all the hypocrites in the world, there would be very few people alive on this planet.

SHANNA HOGAN, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR OF "PICTURE PERFECT": Absolutely. And what I find interesting, we`ve heard these stories before. We`ve heard this before today. We`ve heard these in the press conferences. We`ve heard this on the "48 Hours" interview. We`ve heard the whole story of how they met on "inside Edition". She`s telling the same stories, but she`s altering it.

Never before was it with the sexual twist. Never before was he sexually aggressive to her or her uncomfortable. She was talking about him in glowing terms, talking about how he presented her with a copy of the Book of Mormon and how he challenged her to read it and changed her life. And so now all these things are being added and it`s after four years in jail where she`s had all this time to think and percolate and come up with a possible motive for what she did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Taylor Searle, again, a friend of Travis Alexander, he is not here to speak for himself. His family very upset about what they are hearing. Do you think that the prosecutor should be objecting more? We are not even into the really graphic stuff that we know is to come about their sexual relationship, the photos, et cetera, et cetera. Do you feel that essentially she`s been allowed to take control of this entire case and this courtroom?

TAYLOR SEARLE, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, it seemed like the prosecution did object plenty of times in my opinion. It seemed like she was following a script and after she was trying to search for words and how to phrase stuff she would phrase it in a certain way and then glance back to the defense attorneys, looking for approval or disapproval. And it seemed like they had crafted this in a way to set their narrative and every time the prosecution objected they would say the same thing and try to get the narrative across, just in a different way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think the prosecutor is going to be able to bust up these fanciful tales?

SEARLE: Well, I have no idea. All I know is when I think about that and think about her trying to become sympathetic because of the bully aspect or like the caller had mentioned that she`s putting everyone under their spell, I`m just scared of the possibilities, and I just am afraid of justice not being served.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s interesting that you should say that because today is really the first day where we see in essence that she has kind of taken control, taken the reins of what`s going on in court, at least for the time being.

Now, I have to tell you, listen carefully. On the other side of the break we`re going to start out by playing some sound. When you hear it, see if you notice any patterns in the lies. One is a documented lie. So does that mean that the other thing Jodi says is also a lie? Listen on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I didn`t see myself being with a smoker. Not that there`s anything wrong with it. But it wasn`t the lifestyle that I wanted. My grandparents were chain smokers for a long time, and I saw how it affected their health very negatively.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here, Pet o` the Day and look at fabulous Kyle. What a beautiful, beautiful little angel. Boo -- Boo, you don`t scare me at all. You`re very cute, though. Roger, I think you are a very, very serious and smart doggie. Yes, I can tell. And Kate, she`s just truly innocent.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He leaned in very close as if he wanted to kiss me and he was licking his lips and he was staring at my lips and like he wanted to kiss me, but he didn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where did this occur?

ARIAS: On the elevator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How close did he get to you?

ARIAS: He got right in my face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There you heard Jodi Arias today on direct taking the witness stand and describing Travis Alexander as very sexually aggressive toward her coming on very strong.

But I want to go back to Travis Alexander`s friend, Taylor Searle. Travis can`t speak for himself but you apparently were told something. Travis told you something about Jodi and sex. What was it?

SEARLE: Well, Travis, when he was telling me about Jodi and her sexual nature, he introduced me into the word "nymphomaniac" because that`s how he described her, super aggressive and super addicted to sex and super sex crazed. I always assumed she was the aggressor in all their relationship.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s interesting because we`re hearing that painted the exact opposite way by Jodi even though we know in other situations like after she kills Travis she goes to Utah. We know she was the sexual aggressor there getting on top of Ryan Burns right after, hours, indeed, after she kills Travis Alexander.

All right. I want to go to the phone line quickly and then we`re going to have one last debate. Kim, New York, your question or thought. Kim?

KIM, NEW YORK (via telephone): Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey.

KIM: My comment is she so clearly lies as she is talking on the stand because she gives you the most inane details about who is seated where in a car or a dog being on a leash but the man that was supposedly so aggressive and demanding sex that she had to murder him, she can`t remember who took his clothes off.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very quickly I want to go to our panel -- yes or no question. To our legal panel starting with Jordan Rose. Do you think there`s a possibility of a hung jury here?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: I hate to say it, Jane, in fact it disgusts me, but yes. They only need to pull the heart strings of one juror and she`s doing everything she can to do that. Sadly yes.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy?

MURPHY: Look, some of this titillating red herring stuff all about the sex and the penis, that may be pulling other body parts for a couple of the guys, but when we get to the end of the trial, this is going nowhere. This is the dumbest, most desperate defense I`ve seen in a long time. No chance.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline Gomez.

GOMEZ: Yes. We also have to remember that she was held back in kindergarten and she didn`t graduate from high school. And I think the jury will consider that in their decision.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Brian Silber, yes or no?

SILBER: No way. She`s going down in flames. I think this will ultimately come down to a question of the death penalty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: We began taking meditation seminars, kind of new age type seminars but they had their roots in Hinduism or Buddhism -- maybe some kind of like more modern version of transcendentalism. It was once rated four stars by (inaudible). It has been featured in Conde Nast traveler and all kinds of different publications. It had a lot of accolades.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Jodi Arias has had her run of the courtroom today. Tomorrow it continues as she undoubtedly gets even more graphic describing in detail her relationship with Travis Alexander. Join us tomorrow for that.

NANCY GRACE is up next.

END
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« Reply #150 on: February 06, 2013, 04:48:06 PM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/05/ng.01.html
NANCY GRACE

Jodi Arias on the Stand Day 2

Aired February 5, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We are live outside the Phoenix courthouse. Bombshell tonight. Arias, sitting in court, subdued by a stunbelt. After the 27-year-old blond bombshell first confesses to slashing Travis Alexander to death, she spends the entire day on the stand describing a trail of men and sexual encounters, going from one guy to the next, that she then jumps from one religion to the next, witchcraft, Hindu, Buddhist, Mormonism.

She details jealous confrontations with other women, appearing soft- spoken and meek on the stand, in stark contrast to the shocking and brutal slashing death of her lover. She then goes on to outline a day of oral sex, then goes to church the next day.

Even in light of Arias`s string of lies, is the jury at this hour buying Jodi Arias hook, line, and sinker?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever meet an individual by the name of Travis Alexander?

JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Yes.

They stopped right in front of me and he stuck his hand out and introduced himself.

He wasn`t really flirting with me. He wasn`t giving off that vibe. I did get the impression that he was trying to impress me because he was talking about Yukon (ph) and -- but he was talking to the guy next to him, but he was saying it very loud. I told him I liked him, but I`m in a relationship.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever attempt to kiss you?

ARIAS: He leaned in very chose. He got right in my face, I would say four inches anyway (ph). The elevator was empty. He licked his lips and said, I wish you didn`t have a boyfriend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection!

ARIAS: Travis began to call me.

So I got back from convention on Sunday, and I broke up with Darryl on Thursday. On Wednesday night, I was invited to go out to some of Travis`s friends` house. And I knew Travis would be there, and I didn`t want to -- I`m kind of, like -- I -- I -- one guy at a time kind of person, so I didn`t want to have anything overlapping.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. Arias sitting in court in the last hours subdued by a stunbelt around her waist. She spends the entire day on the stand on direct examination. She describes a trail of men, a trail of sex encounters, going from one guy to the next to the next, also jumping religions -- witchcraft, Hindu, Buddhist, Mormonism, claiming that she was led into all of these religious by men. She then goes on to describe jealous confrontations with other women.

She describes a day full of oral sex, but then she made up for it by going to church the next day, Arias appearing meek and mild on the stand in stark contrast to what we know to be true, the shocking and brutal slashing death of her lover.

But even in light of Arias`s string of lies, it seems as if the jury is actually buying Jodi Arias hook, line, and sinker!

First of all, out to you, Jean Casarez, also in the courtroom all day long. Near the end of the courthouse day, she started describing oral sex with Travis Alexander. I don`t know that the jury really cares about that, but she seems to suggest that she was forced into it, but yet she never told Travis, No, I don`t want to do this.

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": No. She says that Travis knocked on her bedroom door. He went in. She thought they were just going to kiss. He started taking off all of her clothes. She said she didn`t want to disrupt the feeling. She didn`t want to reject him because she could tell there was chemistry. He began to perform oral sex on her, and afterwards, he asked her to reciprocate.

Nancy, I got to tell you, in that courtroom, the jury for all of this testimony -- they are riveted. They are focused. They are sitting, leaning forward, especially the female jurors. They are at the edge of their seats, leaning forward, and I saw a lot of notes being taken.


GRACE: What exactly did she say, Jean, if you don`t mind telling the viewers, because we`re -- after two days on the stand, Jean, I mean, I`ve heard everything from her getting on the ferris wheel with a little boy when she was 14 years old. I`ve heard her whole life story. We`re finally to the point where she meets Travis Alexander. It took two days to get there.

I don`t know why the prosecution allowed this without objecting. It`s irrelevant, what she did when she was 14 years old. But that aside, she never said that she protested at all. I don`t understand how this is painting Travis Alexander to be -- out to be some sort of a sexual deviant.

CASAREZ: It just shows a man being a man, right, in the room. Let`s put it bluntly. It shows the female reciprocating, and then they spent the night together in the bedroom. That is what it shows.

But the defense, you`re right, is going to try to portray that he was the aggressor, he was relentless and he wouldn`t take no for an answer, even though she didn`t fight him on it.

GRACE: Well, she didn`t even say no. Forget about a fight. She never said, Hey, you know what? Stop. I don`t want to do this.

CASAREZ: That`s what I mean.

GRACE: Nothing!

CASAREZ: She never even said no. Nothing. She consented the whole way.

GRACE: You know what, Jean? Another thing I found very interesting, I see her mother and sister in court, but in none of the defense motions were they listed as witnesses.

CASAREZ: No. No. And let me tell you this. Her mother is sitting in the front row. She`s got a notebook of her own, and she is taking notes.

But let me tell you one other thing. This testimony about how she went to the convention and he asked her to the banquet that night and she went to Kohl`s to find a dress, couldn`t find a dress, he`s got one for her -- it came across in the courtroom, Nancy, like "Pretty Woman," like Cinderella. It was a Cinderella story in Las Vegas when she met him. That`s what the jury is hearing right now.

GRACE: OK, Jean, I`ve got to admit when I was listening to this testimony, I did think of Cinderella, poor little girl wants to go to the party, doesn`t have anything to wear. She borrows what turns out to be -- witnesses in this case, white (ph) dress, and you know, that she gets to go to the big party, basically going to the party to try to make business contacts.

But long story short, I had to shake myself because when I forgot about the image of Cinderella in her light blue beautiful dress and her blond hair up and the birds singing around her head, I pictured her with Travis Alexander`s blood dripping down her hands, and that kind of, like, jarred me out of the Cinderella fantasy.

So when you were saying the jury is sitting on the edge of their seats -- let me hear that part again?

CASAREZ: They are riveted with this testimony. And one reason they might be riveted is this is the woman that perpetrated all of the injuries on Travis Alexander. And they -- it`s just very confusing.

GRACE: OK, let`s hear it from the horse`s mouth. Here is Jodi Arias on the stand in her own defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He began to perform oral sex on me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was this comfortable? You mentioned earlier that you had a certain level of discomfort with this act -- being naked. Were you uncomfortable while this oral sex was going on?

ARIAS: I was -- I was uncomfortable. It was dark and the lights were off, so, like, that might have made it a little bit more -- I mean, more tolerable. But it was -- I don`t know -- I mean, it -- he knew what he was doing, for sure, but it was just -- felt like too much, too soon. And I mean, I couldn`t exactly rewind at that point, you know?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not? Did you -- did you voice your displeasure with the events?

ARIAS: No, I can`t say that it was displeasure, but it was uncomfortable. Does that make sense?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, well, let me rephrase my question then. Did you voice your discomfort to him?

ARIAS: No. I didn`t want to give him that impression.

He fixed the visor mirror and pulled his pants back up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean he fixed the visor mirror?

ARIAS: He had it flipped -- well, when -- when I started, he flipped the visor down and angled the mirror, I guess...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you started what?

ARIAS: Oral sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What happened then when -- after he fixed the mirror? Did you guys hang out for longer, go to the park (ph), what did you do?

ARIAS: No. I guess I was under the impression that we were...


NIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Non-responsive. (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do? What happened?

ARIAS: We parted (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that?

ARIAS: We parted ways.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Immediately? Within minutes?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel after that encounter?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Objection! She gives a guy a blow job in the parking lot four years ago! What does that have to do with murder? Jean Casarez, help me out here. Why are we hearing about her giving a blow job to Travis Alexander, what, five years ago in the parking lot?

CASAREZ: It`s the defense trying to form her state of mind as they go forward in all of this. And there are no objections. There are so few objections, and I think the prosecution has decided he is better spent focusing on her testimony, writing notes because Juan Martinez is so focused on her every step of the way.

GRACE: OK. Back to the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Approach, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had a boyfriend in another country, right?

RIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what was that boyfriend`s name?

ARIAS: Victor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were in love with Bobby, right?

ARIAS: Yes, very much, a lot more than I was Victor. Bobby was, like, my first true love.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you love Matt?

ARIAS: Very much, yes. I was in love with him.

We weren`t, like, heavily discussing marriage, but we were talking about children and what kind of lifestyle we would have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You fell in love with Darryl.

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the status of your romantic relationship with Darryl?

ARIAS: We were boyfriend/girlfriend. We were in a committed, monogamous relationship, not necessarily headed for marriage, but I was in love with him.

I was not under any impression that he had changed his mind about his position on marriage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, this is part of Jodi Arias on the stand. So far today, we`ve heard her describe going from one man to the next, sleeping with one guy after the next. I`m not the church lady. I don`t care who she sleeps with. But what concerns me is why this is being allowed in the courtroom. What is the point of it? We know that the defense is self-defense.

Let`s go back in the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: So this was somewhat foreign, but just -- you know, but it was what it was, if that makes sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. To clarify, too, at this point in time, this encounter in the park, were you in love with Mr. Alexander?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After he departed, what did you do?

ARIAS: I drove home and got ready for work. He left me a voicemail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. On your cell phone or on the home phone?

ARIAS: On my cell phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what was the subject matter of that voicemail?

ARIAS: He was expressing his thoughts...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Hearsay. What was the subject matter?

ARIAS: I`m not sure how to answer that question. The incident, I guess, would be the subject matter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you`re talking (INAUDIBLE) the subject matter was the oral sex that just took place?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Leading.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes or no?

ARIAS: Yes, I guess.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if you can characterize it, was he expressing happiness, gratitude about the event?

ARIAS: I wouldn`t characterize it that way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you characterize it?

ARIAS: I`m not sure how.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you characterize it?

ARIAS: I would say that he was...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Just so you know, this is completely inadmissible if an objection had been made, which it has not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he -- did he voice displeasure with what took place?

ARIAS: He was -- displeasure with himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Was it related to the fact that this incident took place or how he treated you?

ARIAS: Both.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: What we are seeing here is a character assassination. Unleash the lawyers, Marla Chicotsky, defense attorney, Miami, Brian Claypool, defense attorney, LA.

To ask her these type of questions on the stand in lieu of saying, What did he say?" -- now, before you go off on your defense tirade, you both know that this is objectionable. And I`m just curious as to the state is allowing it in, Brian Claypool.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I think what the prosecutor`s strategy might be is he doesn`t want to look like he`s being obstreperous. He doesn`t want to make it look like he`s worried about his case. So that -- so in order to prove that, he`s not objecting. I think it`s the wrong move, but I think that explains why he`s doing that.

GRACE: Well, Brian, I agree with you that it`s the wrong move because we have put up with two days of Jodi Arias, kind of a monologue about herself, which is completely irrelevant to this case.

Now, some of it, yes, I understand, Marla. They want to get in that she feels she was abused as a child. It`s going to go toward her state of mind when she murdered Travis Alexander, that she was predisposed to think that she was going to be attacked because of what happened to her as a youth. I get it.

But how does that factor in a 14-year-old girl on a ferris wheel? I don`t know. I don`t know. And none of it was objected to.

MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, I think they`re trying to show a pattern that she is very vulnerable, that she is susceptible to men, you know, taking advantage of her and being manipulative towards her and making her do certain things that she never would want to do on her own free will because of the way that she was raised because of the...

GRACE: And another thing, Marla...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Marla Chicotsky, this is not anything they taught you in law school, I`m sure. But she just meets Travis Alexander. They haven`t known each other very long. And she gives him -- let me think, what`s the correct legal term? -- a blow job in the car in the parking lot, and then he zips his pants up and leaves, all right?

Right there, that should have been the end of the relationship. She should have broken it off right there. But she didn`t. So what`s the point of this? Where are they going with this, that what, he was selfish and greedy? Half the men in this country -- no, no, no, no...

CHICOTSKY: Yes, I mean...

GRACE: Ninety percent of the men in the country wouldn`t (ph) be in jail for that, for Pete`s sake!

CHICOTSKY: I mean, I think they`re trying to show that she was...

GRACE: And the rest are in a monastery!

CHICOTSKY: ... not this sexual -- well, they`re trying to show that she`s not the sexual femme fatale, the murderess, the temptress. I think that`s why they`re trying to get this testimony in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARIAS: He asked for reciprocation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did that request make you feel?

ARIAS: At that point, I had taken it that far. I was kind of glad he was done, and I was just willing to reciprocate at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so we`re clear when we say "reciprocate," does that mean perform oral sex upon him?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: All right, go to the New York control room, please, very quickly. Not seeing it. Liz, question. Why do you keep showing -- I don`t -- I don`t see Liz. There she is. Don`t try to hide behind Brett (ph). Why do you insist on showing, A, either the naked pictures of Jodi Arias, which we`ve discussed, or B, now you`re going to play the oral sex shot over and over and over, when I`m here screaming it has nothing to do with Travis Alexander`s murder?

All right, Brett, I`m going to let you -- thank you. Thank you. Brett, you explain it to her.

Out to the lines. Liz in New York. Hi, Liz. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have two quick questions. (INAUDIBLE) meeting a person that would probably sit on the jury -- as I watch her, she`s coming across as cocky, self-confident, no emotion, like she`s almost happy inside that all of America is watching her through this trial. And I think she was the aggressor. I think she`s the one that started with him, and she`s just reversing the roles in her mind.

And do you think Juan Martinez will put the picture up when he cross- examines her of Travis Alexander? Because that`s a murder of rage, jealous rage, not of a victim that was being abused.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you love Matt?

ARIAS: Very much, yes. I was in love with him.

I see that period as my life as probably one of the best times in my life. He treated me very well. He was very kind. He was very respectful.

On the desktop, there were some other pictures of this girl, and I didn`t recognize her, wasn`t overly concerned about it. But you know, I just kind of had a -- a feeling. And so I let that go, and a few weeks later, he told me that he was seeing a girl named Bianca.

He treated me very well. He was very kind. He was very respectful.

I was reeling because, I mean, of all the boyfriends I had, I would have expected him to not be the one that cheated on me.

I didn`t really allow myself to have much emotion about it.

She was under the impression that he and I were no longer together so that I didn`t look at this as her fault. At that point I allowed myself to cry. He was very loyal. I trusted him completely, like implicitly. He could have said the sky is falling and I would have believed him. I think I would have just looked out the window to see what it looks like.

I also confronted Matt and he confirmed it, and at that point he was honest about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you love Matt?

ARIAS: Very much, yes. I was in love with him. Probably one of the best times in my life. Basically our relationship was over and it was kind of sad. I was in love with him. It was kind of sad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In that year and eight months, did he ever hit you?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever call you a whore?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A slut?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three-hole wonder?

ARIAS: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Was that Jodi Arias talking about what, boyfriend number 14, 15? He cheated on me, I looked at his laptop, he was sending sexy messages, I confronted him, blah, blah, blah.

How many takes was it, Jean? I mean I heard about so many boyfriends, they were all horrible. She was always wonderful. They cheated. They tried to strangle her. They did this. They did that. She brokes -- breaks up, moves in with the next one. One is involved in witchcraft, one is a Buddhist, one is -- it just goes on and on and on.

(LAUGHTER)

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": That`s true.

GRACE: And then Travis Alexander runs into her. I don`t understand where it`s going but I will say, to me it`s irrelevant. You`re saying the jury seems interested, Jean.

CASAREZ: I think there`s something very relevant about what you just said, all right, and it has to do with that boyfriend Matthew McCartney. And she`s with his parents. She sees a picture on the computer of him with another woman. So what does she do? She gets in her car and she drives to Crater Lake, Oregon, to confront the woman, Bianca.

I see a pattern, Nancy, driving to confront. I see a pattern here. That`s relevant for the prosecution.

GRACE: Angry and jealous confrontations with other women, women that her love object is dating. You are absolutely right, Jean. We heard that and so much more.

To Liz in New York. Your question was, you see her as the aggressor and what was your question, Liz?

LIZ, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Do you think -- she`s coming off as cocky and arrogant and just a turnoff.

GRACE: Good question.

LIZ: Do you think Juan Martinez will show the picture of Travis Alexander dead? Because that picture shows jealous rage, not a victim of domestic violence.

GRACE: Good point, Liz. Let`s go to Susan Constantine. She is a body language expert, a jury consultant. She is joining me out of Orlando.

What do you see, Susan?

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT/JURY CONSULTANT: Well, what I`ve been watching the entire time today. One of the things that I thought about was, you know, this connection that Jean was saying about leaning forward, they`re very engaged. You know, the eyes are the strongest communicator. Rapport is building up. But here`s what I`ve seen, is that when she is talking about visual things that happened to her, I don`t see her looking up and capturing the visual image. And also, too, when she`s talking about something that was hurtful, I don`t see her looking down where she is kind of, you know, reliving that experience.

So their eye movement queues are not even in sync with her words and neither is her body language. And I think that that`s what intrigues this jury. They`re trying to connect the dots.

GRACE: OK. Explain to us what it means.

CONSTANTINE: Well, what -- with the eye movement queues? When somebody is looking up, and she is right-handed, when she was -- if she is telling the truth and it was a visual image, she would look up to the left- hand corner just for a brief moment. If she was constructing the information, she`d look up to the right-hand corner. If she`s having a kinesthetic moment, something that`s very feeling, where she was abused and so forth, she`s going to look down.

You`re going to also hear her voice crack, you might see sadness come over her face. That there is going to be other indicators which we call cluster gestures. It`s not just the words spoken and her words because she is just speaking it out. There`s no other emotions other than that. There`s not enough there to really connect the dots. They`re not consistent. It`s incongruent.

GRACE: Out to Caryn Stark, psychologist.

Caryn, all of this, I think, is an effort to make her look as if she is a victim of a string of men. I don`t know why all the different religions, how that`s going to play in unless she is easily led down the garden path because one guy introduces her to witchcraft, one to Buddhism, one to Hinduism, Mormonism.

I`m not really sure how many there are. But there was witchcraft and Wicca. What does all this mean, Caryn Stark?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think they`re trying to show that she has a dependent personality, Nancy. And that she`s searching, she`s constantly searching. She is looking externally, bring men to support her --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: All I know is she depended on a knife and a gun. That`s what she depended on. Go ahead. What now?

STARK: There is no doubt about what you`re saying. And I think it`s important to point out that she is coming across so disassociated, so separated from feelings that, it is -- to me, that`s a murderous person, that`s somebody who is definitely capable of murder and rage.

GRACE: Hey, Caryn?

STARK: That the anger is internalized.

GRACE: Caryn Stark, take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he attempting to remove your clothing?

ARIAS: Yes. We both were taking off our clothes, I think.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. At this point in time was this level of intimacy something that you felt comfortable with?

ARIAS: At this point I was a little more comfortable with it because we had been talking for a long time and I felt like I knew him better. And, also, I don`t think I was as nervous because it wasn`t the first time that we were like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. In your mind was this supposed to be a romantic weekend, if you will?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it turn out to be that?

ARIAS: Not so much romance. It wasn`t everything I was expecting, but I didn`t have high expectations. But we didn`t connect really like we did on the phone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You wanted to become involved in the real estate market. Did you -- did you do anything besides just look at purchasing a home? Did you educate yourself or anything of that nature?

ARIAS: Yes, I took real estate classes at Monterey Peninsula College just to become more familiarized with the process of real estate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Purchasing the home at this point in time, do you remember how much that home cost?

ARIAS: I believe it was 350 -- $350,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was your financial situation at that point in time when you`re buying the house?

ARIAS: I was in a pretty solid financial position. I had a lot of money in the bank saved -- well a lot -- by a lot I mean about $10,000 or $12,000 which, I think at that point in my life was the most I had saved ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)


GRACE: Jodi Arias on the stand for day two. I feel like I`ve been in front of -- like in clockwork orange -- out to you, Bonnie Druker -- where they force your eyes open with toothpicks and I have to listen to Jodi Arias go on and on and on about all the people that have mistreated her. Then I have to listen to her story about breaking up with her boyfriend, Brewer, and in less than, what, one week she has two sex encounters with Travis Alexander?

This is more like -- 72 hours after her breakup of her true love Brewer, her then true love, two sex encounters with Alexander, one in a car in the parking lot of Starbucks. Now she`s not charged with being not classy. But, I mean, it sounds like a revolving door. How are we supposed to connect with Jodi Arias?

BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It`s impossible to connect with her. It`s hard to believe anything she says because she is constantly the victim. Every single relationship she talks about she is the victim, and we see this going now with Travis Alexander. Why did she even go there? How could someone have a hold on you after a week? And she`s already performing oral sex and feels uncomfortable.

Why did she even go there, Nancy? I have no idea.

GRACE: Well, I think she probably should have thought about that when she was in the floorboard of Travis Alexander`s car and he was zipping his pants up. That`s just a suggestion.

Out to the lines, Marie in Massachusetts. Hi, Marie, what`s your question?

MARIE, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Nancy. I was wondering what you thought about her statement, the most bitterest words I`ll ever eat. That had to do with herself and I think for me, or for most of us, the most bitter words we might hope never to eat is I killed my best friend, or I killed Travis, which she did not even acknowledge.

GRACE: You know, Marie -- you know what`s interesting -- Liz, hold on to Marie. You just verbalized what I was thinking but I hadn`t put words to it yet about her comment. What Marie is referring to is a taped interview that Arias gave behind bars in which she says no jury will ever convict me. You can mark my words.

OK, Liz, yes, let`s play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I know that I`m innocent. God knows I`m innocent. Travis knows I`m innocent. No jury is going to convict me.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why not?

ARIAS: Because I`m innocent. And you can mark my words on that one. No jury will convict me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That he was Jodi Arias on "Inside Edition." And you`ll notice even behind bars she is extremely physically attractive, but they`ve mouse d her down, you know, for the courtroom. But that`s what Marie in Massachusetts is referring to. She later says those words, I`ll never be convicted, were the bitterest words she ever had to eat, I think were her - - was her phraseology.

As opposed to any remorse about slashing Travis Alexander to death. And let me tell you, the way that he died was a very, very painful death. He bled out. That`s the common phraseology. She slashed him 29 times. He tried to get away from her. She pursued him. She pursued him across the bathroom floor continuing to stab him with a butcher knife nine times in his back.

She shot him from the top right head down, the bullet lodging in his left cheek. Then she tried to clean the crime scene. And left. But yet on the stand we hear no remorse whatsoever. And you know what`s interesting, out to you Caryn Stark. I can still remember, I think I was in the first grade, and there was a line to get on the monkey bars, some jungle gym or something.

And I got in front of another little girl. And I turned around and looked and the little girl just looked -- I still remember that moment and I feel bad about it. That was, what? Years and years and years ago that I did something bad and I remember it. It`s the first time I could recollect that I had done something that I was ashamed of even as a child. And even now I regret it. Isn`t that a silly little thing? But this woman says the thing -- the bitterest words were that she wouldn`t be convicted as opposed to what she did to Travis.

STARK: She is talking about her shame. It`s all about her, Nancy. I hope you forgive yourself, by the way, for what happened when you were young, but she doesn`t have any regret because she doesn`t feel. That`s what happens when somebody is a psychopath. They don`t have feelings and she`s loving every minute of being there and talking in front of everybody, and she loved talking on "Inside Edition."

That`s a classic murderer. That`s what everyone is seeing right now. She has no regrets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you find it strange that Mr. Alexander was asking you to this banquet after only meeting him the day before?

ARIAS: I didn`t really think of it as strange. I think the whole week was kind of strange. It wasn`t really what I was accustomed to. So I was just going with the flow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I just don`t understand what she was talking about, that she killed Travis Alexander. I don`t understand why she didn`t break down in tears of remorse for taking his life.

Out to Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story. Matt, at the end of the courtroom day, on what note did they end?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, they actually left talking about this last -- the third sexual encounter between Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias, and the defense made a note of Arias that during the second encounter, they asked Arias if she was in love with Travis. Now remind you this is less than a week after she broke up with Darryl Brewer, and Arias said -- that when she said she was not in love with him, but they began talking every day, Travis began sending missionaries to her house, so it progressed from there.

GRACE: OK. So -- I don`t know how that really helped the defense, to say, all right, there you are on the floorboard of a car giving Travis Alexander a blow job outside a Starbucks, and you`ve just broken up with your four-year relationship, and you are saying you are not in love and you really didn`t feel anything for him at that time. How is that helping her, Jean Casarez?

CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, this is a self-defense case. As you know, it`s all about her state of mind. She`s going to want the instruction in the end that it`s a reasonable person in the self-defense aspect who`s a victim of domestic violence. So if you start to look at the aspect of control over her, that`s what they`re going for, I guess that`s the beginning step here. But we haven`t seen any domestic violence yet.

GRACE: Out to C.W. Jensen, retired police captain, joining us from Arizona.

C.W., she is wearing a stun belt in court. How does that work?

C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, what they do is - - I mean, obviously, they have some concern about her mental stability, so they want to have a device on her so if she nuts up on him, you know, they don`t have to have a couple of cops run up and like, you know -- you know, hit her with a stun gun and choke her out or anything like that. So it`d be very easy if she gets crazy on the stand. They just have to hit the button, boom, she goes down, and it`s very nice and clean, and you don`t have to have a big deal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Roberto Luisa, 28, El Paso, Texas. Fourth tour, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation Medal. Parents Roberto and Emita, sisters Mercedes and Karena, brother Esteban, widow, Teresa, and children Mason and Kayla.

Roberto Luisa. American hero.

Straight out to Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session," in court all day long along with Jean Casarez.

Beth, between all the boyfriends, the oral sex and the car at Starbucks, am I missing anything?


BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: No, you`re not. I swear, Nancy if we have to go through every sexual encounter she had with Travis Alexander and every conversation and every trip they took, she`s going to be on the stand through next week. Especially now the court is -- going to be dark on Thursday. So I mean she has gone through the first few sexual encounters with him and made it sound like it was all Travis forcing himself on her, but she went along with it not to hurt his feelings. And I guess we`ll pick up with another sexual encounter when --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I didn`t realize you had to go along with a blowjob not to hurt a guy`s feelings. That`s a new thing to me. It sounds like one of those horrible, horrible conversations you have at 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning with some girl whose boyfriend has broken up and she`s reliving everything that ever happened from day one.

We`re going on day two. How many more boyfriends, breakups, blowjobs do I have to hear?

KARAS: Well, probably a lot of the latter, but no more boyfriend. It`s all going to be Travis here on in. Because, you know, it`ll be -- it will end with the killing of him and then her arrest, I suppose. But there will be a lot more sex and a lot more detail, and different acts they engaged in to come.

GRACE: You know what`s interesting? Jean Casarez, she goes on and on and on about all these sex encounters, but she never says, I was angry, I said no. I mean, it`s kind of like, she`s saying no, don`t, no, don`t, as she unsnaps her bra. I mean, I -- I`m not really moved by this.

CASAREZ: You know why that`s relevant, Nancy, for the prosecution is because throughout her life, she broke up with almost every guy. She said no, she said this isn`t right. She was very assertive with them.

GRACE: OK. Everybody, we`re going to be right back in the courtroom, at the heart of all this is Travis Alexander. Let`s don`t forget him being slashed to death as we watch Jodi Arias on the stand.

"DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

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« Reply #151 on: February 06, 2013, 04:57:17 PM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/05/ddhln.01.html
DR. DREW

Jodi: Vixen or Victim?

Aired February 5, 2013 - 21:00   ET


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, day two. Jodi Arias under oath. What happened the night she met Travis Alexander?

JODI ARIAS, ALLEGED MURDERER: He stopped right in front of me, and stuck his hand out and introduced himself.

PINSKY: And is she telling the truth?

I`m speaking exclusively to a woman who calls Jodi a friend. She says Jodi is not a murderer.

Also, my jury is back. Details from inside the courtroom.

 ::snipping2::

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And joining me, my co-host for the week, psychologist Wendy Walsh.

I also have criminal defense attorney Mark Eiglarsh and former prosecutor Lonnie Coombs.

We have an exclusive interview with one of Jodi`s friends.

But, first, Jodi was on the stand again today, this time describing explicit -- and, by the way, this is a warning about the stuff we have to get into this conversation -- explicit details about her encounters with the victim, Travis Alexander.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: This is embarrassing. He began to perform oral sex on me. He knew what he was doing, for sure, but it was just -- felt like too much too soon and I mean, I couldn`t exactly rewind at that point.

I was uncomfortable. I wanted to at least appear like I was enjoying it as much as he seemed to be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened after he performed oral sex on you?

ARIAS: At that point, we had taken it that far, I was kind of glad he was done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining me to discuss "In Session" correspondent, Beth Karas.

Beth, what is going on? Why are they -- they`re getting into such gruesome detail. Is that the right word?
WENDY WALSH, CO-HOST: No, graphic. Graphic details.

PINSKY: Graphic details, graphic, gruesome.

BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION" CORRESPONDENT: It`s graphic. Not gruesome.

PINSKY: Well -- I beg to differ but --

WALSH: If you have an aversion to sex, it`s gruesome.

PINSKY: OK. Fair enough. But what is the intention here? What`s all this about?

KARAS: I think the defense wants to take her through every single detail of her relationship with Travis Alexander. She`s going to be on the stand until next week if that`s the case.

What you just played, with her first sexual encounter with him, a week after meeting him. She broke up with her boyfriend of four years, meets him at a friend`s house, his friend`s house, he goes into her bedroom and performs oral sex on her, we just heard that, and asked her to reciprocate. And she performs it on him.

And the next line of questioning, Dr. Drew, was did he ejaculate? Yes. Where? And I`m not going to say. But use your imagination.

And then they talk every day. Their next encounter is a month later, when he`s sort of passing through. He gives her the book of Mormon and then jumps in a her car in a park, and demands oral sex from her and she does it -- even though she thought it was a little too soon, she does. So, same thing happened there, although he didn`t perform it on her.

That`s all we`ve heard. Two encounters. She`s not a Mormon yet. She hasn`t begun her full blown relationship yet. There`s a lot of details to come.

PINSKY: And, Mark Eiglarsh, why -- what to you think the strategy was for all of the details of where he ejaculated and all of this business? The only thing I can think of -- and you tell me that my thinking isn`t all right here -- was to ask the question from her team so if the prosecutors were going to ask those sorts of crazy questions, it wouldn`t jar her or they would have already been asked?

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. We don`t know the exact reason, but first and foremost, they want her to appear believable in front of this jury, and how convenient. The only person who could contradict the details is no longer here. It reminds me of the Zimmerman- Trayvon Martin case where now that, you know, Trayvon is not around, Zimmerman can say whatever he wants. I don`t know if either one of them is lying, but how convenient.


The other thing is ultimately, she is going to be in a penalty phase perhaps. And by doing this, you are humanizing her. You are getting know her, and the jurors are now see her up close and she`s at least intelligent. She`s articulate. Don`t know if she`s lying or not, but that would make it less likely for them to seek the ultimate sanction of death.

PINSKY: Lonnie, that is something that stands out. Her use of language is exceptional. She has a command -- and I wonder if she learned that through her salesmanship training that she`s got --

WALSH: I think she`s smart.

PINSKY: And she`s smart, clearly.

LONNIE COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think she`s very smart. I`ve been impressed by her vocabulary. I always like people who are articulate and he used a wide range of words to describe things. She is very good at that.

And I agree with Mark, it`s going a long way to humanize her. I mean, these jurors have to listen to her, and see her up close, and see her expressions, and her emotions and her experiences. And then, say at the end, we want her to be killed. That`s a very hard thing to get over.

However, I disagree with the part of this being able to build up her credibility. What I have been scratching my head over, when they got into the graphic details about the oral sex, is she is sitting there demure like a little flower that`s never been violated before, and yet we know she`s had relationships before, she just lived with a man for four years, which he described their sex life as, you know, energetic.

And then after she kills Travis, which we know she did, she goes off and has another sexual encounter where she is very assertive if not aggressive.

(CROSSTALK)

WALSH: Lonnie, you`re scratching your head, you`re scratching your heard, but I bet Dr. Drew knows the answer. Is it because they want to titillate the males on the jury?

COOMBS: Perhaps, but then it breaks down her credibility, when you have these two very different portrayals, that we know from other people, and she stands up and says, you know, pretends to be this virginal flower when we know that that`s not the case.

PINSKY: And, Lonnie, we had a guy her who dated her one night, and he was quite clear she was into it, shall we say. There`s no problem there.
And so, yes, this whole -- none of you -- put everyone up on the screen for me. I want someone raise your hand for me. Anybody tell me really why all those explicit questions. I don`t get it.

COOMBS: I know why.

PINSKY: OK. Go.

COOMBS: Because they want to get to the one, two, three juror who`s are empathetic, who have gone through an experience.

WALSH: They only need one, right? They only need one.

PINSKY: Where did the fluids get emitted? I mean, that`s such a bizarre question.

COOMBS: But now they feel like she`s once more again being victimized. She`s sitting there on the stand and she`s having to answer questions. Whose fault is it?

PINSKY: Why doesn`t she let the prosecutors ask it then? The prosecutors will I`m sure will get into that kind of stuff.

Mark, go.

EIGLARSH: Drew, they are building. Wait, wait, wait. You don`t have to speculate. Little by little, these little details are part of the plan. This has been very orchestrated. I can tell from the questions that the defense has spent hours with her.

This is all building to something. You`ve got to -- you know, just wait. Obviously, they haven`t talked about the one subject matter that matters. What caused her to feel imminent death or great bodily harm that caused her then to act? All of this means nothing.

PINSKY: Beth, anything in court to help make sense of what we`ve been talking about?

KARAS: No. Actually, I expected to hear some sort of sexual abuse by a boyfriend or someone in her life, because when the doctor gets on the psychologist to talk about PTSD, I thought there would be a triggering event. I don`t know what that event is. She`s probably already testified. Maybe it`s a cumulative effect of --

WALSH: The childhood stuff, right, Dr. Drew?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: The childhood stuff was the preamble. Of course, what was the triggering event? And I guess we`ll have to wait.

WALSH: We`re going to get there.

PINSKY: Thank you, Beth Karas.

Next up, Jodi`s friend. A friend of hers is going to speak exclusively to us here. Is Jodi a cold-blooded killer? She`s going to answer that question and several others. That is after the break.

And later, I have a situation in a school where there is a scandal involving preschoolers and, again, it is almost --

WALSH: You always do this with a mother here.

PINSKY: I`m sorry. The sexual behavior amongst preschoolers. We have a parent whose child went through this. Why this happens, what to look for, so it doesn`t happen to anybody else. We`re going to get right to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SEARLE, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Jodi was just the wrong thing at the wrong time for him, and just turned out to be a disease that he picked up. Jodie would be his booty call option, or he could go another direction and find girls to actually marry and settle down. That`s when she became the stalker, as we all say, that`s when this crazy behavior started.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That was Taylor Searle from last night`s show. He was a close friend of Travis Alexander. And we learned a bit about him.

Psychologist Wendy Walsh, she`s back with me. She was there when we talk to Taylor. It`s kind of interesting.

WALSH: Right. When I hear a lot of slut shaming. Am I allowed to say that on TV?

PINSKY: You can say slut shaming.

WALSH: I don`t think that`s OK to be constantly downing a girl for her sexual experience and not the guy.

PINSKY: Well, OK, it`s interesting you would say that. I`ve got a friend on the phone. Here name is Gayla -- a friend of Jodi`s. Her name is Gayla Lynch. She was a coworker of Jodi Arias`.

Now, I want to talk directly to Gayla. Gayla is on the phone.

Gayla, what is it like to hear your friend Jodi referred to as a disease, and a stalker, something he picked up? How did you react to that?

GAYLA LYNCH, FORMER CO-WORKER OF JODI ARIAS (via telephone): Well, it makes me angry when I hear of people speak of Jodi like they do. They don`t know the Jodi that I knew.

She loves people and believes the best in them. She`s not the kind of person that would want to hurt anyone. She trusted everyone.

PINSKY: Gayla, I`ve got to interrupt. I knew we have a thousand questions when you say things like that, because we know that she brutally killed a guy. She has admitted to that. She`s capable of it, she did it.

So, let me ask this: my understanding is you observed her once in a fight in the restaurant where you two worked. Take us through that.

LYNCH: OK. One night she was visiting me when I was working during my graveyard shift. She had been seeing one of our cooks off and on, and he was also dating one of our managers.

WALSH: Oh, dear.

LYNCH: And, of course -- yes. And the manager had found out about Jodi seeing the cook, and came into the restaurant and, of course, found Jodi there, she was there having coffee visiting with me, and the manager began to taunt Jodi in such a way as to get her to start a fight.

Jodi wouldn`t budge. She didn`t want to fight. She just kept very quiet, and not saying a word.

And when the manager, of course, realized if there was going to be a fight, she would have to start it herself, when she did. I basically watched Jodi get beat up by the manager. She didn`t throw a punch. She didn`t yell, scream, or anything at anyone.

PINSKY: Did she freeze like she was out of body?

WALSH: Did she try to protect herself?

PINSKY: Or she`s seem frozen solid, like frozen with terror?

LYNCH: She just -- basically, she tried to protect herself. One of the other managers there actually pulled the fight apart. And afterwards, she actually was very upset when it was all over with.

PINSKY: Gayla, we got to kind of more through this.

You also met Bobby Juarez, the guy that was the vampire, is that right?

LYNCH: Yes, I did.
PINSKY: That she was living with. Did you ever meet his family? What was he like? And she was dating the chef, the cook, at the same time she was living with Bobby, pretty crazy, right?

LYNCH: Yes, yes. I don`t think she was living with Bobby at that time. I worked there for three years. And it was -- in the beginning when I first started working there, I met Bobby, he would come in and have coffee or something to drink and stay maybe a half hour to an hour. He kept to himself a lot. He`s very quiet.

WALSH: Let me ask you this. If you were a friend of yours, you knew her intimately. Tell me, did you feel like you did really know her? I mean, did her emotions feel authentic? Did you feel you had a real connection with this person?

LYNCH: I believe her emotions were authentic. I do not believe she was hiding anything.

PINSKY: Let me take a phone call from Kimberly in New Mexico.

Kimberly, you got something for us?

KIMBERLY, CALLER FROM NEW MEXICO: Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Kimberly.

KIMBERLY: I have a question for Gayla. Have you ever seen Jodi show signs of stalking with other men?

LYNCH: No.

KIMBERLY: She`s obviously some reputation of it. Have you ever met Travis and see his abusive nature? Don`t you think it a little ludicrous, immoral and completely absurd to kill someone over a camera that`s worth a couple of hundred dollars that she could have replaced?

LYNCH: I never met Travis. I did not -- and I haven`t spoken with Jodi since 2000. I tried to contact her a couple different times and she`d moved -- she`d moved. So it was really hard to keep track of her.

I never knew her to be anyone that was a stalker or even get angry with people. She just didn`t get angry. She was always very wholesome, very sweet, trusting.

WALSH: So, Dr. Drew, what does this tell you? Was there a lot of stuff boiling under the surface potentially?

PINSKY: Well, maybe. I mean, there`s a lot of craziness. She`s living with this guy, and this guy, and dating that guy, and then moving, and different jobs. I mean, a lot of chaos in her life.



WALSH: In this description, she seems so calm and in self-control. But we know she had a chaotic childhood. Do you think that there`s stuff starting to bubble up underneath?

PINSKY: For sure.

And, Mark, you had a question for Gayla.

EIGLARSH: Can we -- yes, can we reiterate something? She hadn`t had contact with her since 2000. So, for years, she had absolutely no idea what was going on with this girl, with her relationship with Travis. She wasn`t there before, during, or after.

She did stab this guy 29 times, slit him from ear to ear and did kill him with a gun.

WALSH: Right.

EIGLARSH: So, that being said, she can`t say anything of value to assist us understanding what the motivation was.

WALSH: People`s personalities don`t change in major ways in a decade.

PINSKY: We heard people talking about how she is spiritual and she`s into -- you know, she seemed very disconnected.

WALSH: She`s searching for boundaries.

PINSKY: Searching for an identity, searching for a boundary, and what might seem nice may also seem empty to her.

Gayla?

LYNCH: I`m sorry?

PINSKY: OK, I`m going to take a break. Here is what we`re going to do.

LYNCH: OK.

PINSKY: Was Jodi Arias defending herself when she killed Travis Alexander? We`re going to talk about that question when we come back.

And later, I`ll have my jurors back. They`re going to sound off -- here`s one of them right there -- sound off on what they witness in court today.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me, and I defended myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I`m back with my co-host, psychologist Wendy Walsh. And I`ve got Jodi`s friend, Gayla Lynch. She was -- you`re a waitress, Gayla, with Jodi as I understand.

LYNCH: Yes.

PINSKY: And a couple of questions, I heard -- one of the producers told me that you were surprised that Jodi was not a virgin. Mind you, hang on, a woman that was dating a chef and living with another guy --

WALSH: How old was she at the time?

LYNCH: That was my initial impression of Jodi when I first met her. She was so wholesome, and, you know, she didn`t wear makeup and didn`t dress like a slut. She was just like the girl next door. She`s very intelligent.

PINSKY: And you say she might have been defending herself and Travis was really the, I don`t know, aggressor. Explain that to me? Why do you say that?

EIGLARSH: How could she say that?

PINSKY: I know.

LYNCH: And he was a motivational speaker, and I heard someone called last night when they called into your show that they actually brought this up. He was a motivational speaker, and what I know about them, they have ways of trying to get into their heads.

WALSH: So, you think Jodi was easily manipulated?

LYNCH: Yes, well, by him possibly.

PINSKY: OK. Gayla, hold on.

Mark, have at it.

EIGLARSH: I`m at a loss for words. She hasn`t seen this girl in years. This horrific act occurs and she`s speculating. And now, she`s trashing Travis.

LYNCH: No.

EIGLARSH: I would ask you, Drew, what do you think is going on here? In other words, analyze what Gayla`s motivations are. Why would she do something like that, even though she would have to concede she has very little knowledge of Jodi`s state of mind during the actual time period --

WALSH: But she`s a good friend.

EIGLARSH: -- that is relevant --

PINSKY: What is that, Gayla?

EIGLARSH: -- years ago. What does she know about her actions?

PINSKY: Gayla?

LYNCH: Yes. Well, like I heard someone say earlier, people don`t change.

I`m telling you what I know of her when I --

COOMBS: I have a question for Gayla.

PINSKY: Lonnie, go ahead.

COOMBS: You describe her and her personality back in 2000. And yet, have you been able to see her on the stand? And talked about her emotions, how sweet she was. The way she is coming across the stand seems very robotic, somewhat maybe conniving, manipulative. Is that the same person you remember from 2000? Is that the same person that you remember?

LYNCH: No.

WALSH: Oh, really. So she`s changed.

PINSKY: Grace in Michigan -- Grace.

GRACE, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Yes.

PINSKY: Go ahead.

GRACE: I have a question for you -- for her friend. If she claims that she was abused by Travis, where is the evidence? Where are the bruises? Where are the police reports?

WALSH: Yes. Where are all the 911 calls?

GRACE: Where are the black eyes and all of that?

PINSKY: Now, Gayla, I think -- I think -- I think they`re going to build the case and I think what Gayla is sort of supporting, it was a psychological manipulation of some type and that she was being exploited, would that be right, Gayla.

LYNCH: Yes, that is correct. I think it was more mental than physical.

PINSKY: OK, Mark -- Mark, I love your question. People don`t change. Has she stabbed somebody else before? Yes, I mean --

EIGLARSH: What about her -- what about her vision? Was she always wearing glasses, or did that happen when the jury was sworn?

LYNCH: No, she didn`t wear glasses when I knew her.

PINSKY: Shocking.

EIGLARSH: Oh, shocking.

COOMBS: A lot of things have changed, obviously.

Dr. Drew, I have a question.

PINSKY: Go ahead.

COOMBS: Everybody talks about this abuse, that she was abused. I would like to know your opinion. We know some defense attorney -- some defense experts are going to get on the stand and base an opinion on what we`ve heard from Jodi and say that she has been abused. And so that somehow that abuse mitigates her actions in killing Travis.

Do you in your expert opinion, based on what we`ve heard from Jodi so far, do you believe that she has been abused? Either physically, sexually, emotionally?


WALSH: That`s a good question. We talked about that last night.

COOMBS: Yes, to a level that would somehow justify or mitigate the horrific way she killed Travis.

PINSKY: Two different questions and I`ll answer them both when we get back to the break.

I got more of your questions for Gayla about Jodi. Call us 855- DRDREW5.

We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He expressed that he was horny and he came into my car and sat in the passenger seat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the point of him getting in your car at the park?

ARIAS: I didn`t know at first. I mean, my car was --

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.

ARIAS: I did not know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What sort of activity, to your understanding, was he interested in?

ARIAS: Oral sex. He wanted to receive it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did oral sex take place in your car?

ARIAS: Yes. He refused to kiss me afterward, because he said it was gross.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I am back with my co-host, Wendy Walsh.

Now, go ahead, Wendy. You got to reframe this. Yes?

WALSH: Before the break, Lonnie had two really good questions for you, Dr. Drew. We want to know whether the -- do you perceive the childhood abuse she may have undergone was bad enough to make her commit a murder and this kind of heinous murder?

PINSKY: OK. Two areas here. One is based on -- one of the things, so distressing is her so disassociated and disconnected from her feelings. That comes from abuse. I think that`s a reasonable thing.

Not only that we see these horrible chaotic relationships, moving all over the place. And also, it sounds like abuse, very common. The kind of abuse she went through is actually very common. A lot of people are looking at her history going it`s not so bad.

For some people, it is bad. It does not lead to becoming a murderer, even when it`s severe, and I can`t make it be -- I can`t imagine a way it triggers the kind of violence unless she had some weird dissociative identity disorder of something. You know, we`ve all had patients that blackout or brownout in rages, but they`re using substances in my world.

WALSH: Here`s my favorite textbook term. She flipped. All right. She`s just like something happened.

PINSKY: Yes, but that flipping -- like Gayla said. Mark, go ahead. Mark.

EIGLARSH: But wait, wait. You said it`s because she`s disassociated with her feelings, but couldn`t that also be consistent with someone who`s completely making it up?

WALSH: Right. Right.

EIGLARSH: I`m not saying she is.

(CROSSTALK)

LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I also disagree that she flipped. You don`t flip when you plan ahead to get the gas cans and to bring the weapons and to make sure you don`t, you know, leave a paper trail, you know, along the way.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Well, you`re right. That`s right. And that`s why I keep thinking about may disassociative identity or something, but who cares? People with the I.D. don`t go kill other people. But Mark, we lost my train of thought (ph), what were you giving me grief about?

(CROSSTALK)

EIGLARSH: The only conclusion that you came up with was disassociation.

PINSKY: Oh, right. Lie. Here`s the deal.

EIGLARSH: That`s also consistent with somebody lying.

PINSKY: You guys, I work with addicts and alcoholics, so I`m lied to all the time. I`ve got a great B.S. meter, and I get that she is framing and shaping everything she`s saying, but I also get disconnect. A disconnect that is uncomfortable to watch.

WALSH: I agree with you. There`s a kind of vacancy inside her that I see.

COOMBS: But does every pathological liar come from abuse or can you just be a pathological liar?

PINSKY: Yes, you can. And you can also be a psychopath, which a case with no one is making about this girl, but that you`d expect to see some more difficult history in that. Christina in Pennsylvania.

CHRISTINA, PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. I just wanted to say, as somebody who has suffered every form of abuse from when I was six years old, this happens to millions of women all over the country.

PINSKY: Yes, it does. Yes, it does.

WALSH: One in three American women.

CHRISTINA: -- unfortunately. And oh, is it one in three? My God.

PINSKY: Yes.

CHRISTINA: And I`m sorry, but I -- I never had a thought of going and slitting any of my ex-boyfriend`s throat.

PINSKY: OK. Christina, you are now the poster child to the point we were just trying to make. Gayla, how do you make sense of all this?

GAYLA LYNCH, JODI ARIAS FORMER CO-WORKER, FRIEND: You know, I still for the life of me trying to imagine Jodi getting that angry. I can`t say it`s not possible, because it is.

EIGLARSH: It happened, Gayla.

PINSKY: Yes, it happened.

LYNCH: And I just -- I, myself, never experienced Jodi as that kind of a person.

EIGLARSH: YOU know -- so, maybe you didn`t really know her. Maybe you didn`t really know her. Maybe she showed you one side.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: It`s a reality. It`s a reality, Loni, as you say, and Mark, you, as well. And it`s one that creeps us all out because then we look at our neighbors, we look at -- and the fact is --

WALSH: How many sides of our personality does she have?

PINSKY: Well, not only that. How many times do we report on stories that people go, oh, he was the nicest kid in the world. I don`t understand what happened. Well, either A, something does happen like a major mental health issue or something was already happening. Nannette in California.

NANNETTE, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Gayla, how long have you really known her that you stated that there`s no way that Jodi could haven`t killed anyone without good reason. So, like -- so what you`re saying is stabbing Travis 29 times, slitting his throat from ear to ear and then shooting him in the head, that`s OK, that`s self-defense, because to me, that`s not self-defense.

PINSKY: And by the way, Nanette, I really wanted to show my audience the wound to the neck because it`s so -- it speaks such volumes about the violence. It was incredible. But Gayla, go ahead and answer that question.

LYNCH: No, I`m not saying that what -- that it`s OK, because it was self-defense. I saw the pictures of the crime scene and I think it was horrible. I -- I -- to say that Jodi that I knew, I would have never imagined that she was capable of doing that. That`s what I say.

PINSKY: I get you Gayla. Terry in Pennsylvania -- Terry.

TERRY, PENNSYLVANIA: Hey, Dr. Drew. I just wanted to know, with her demeanor the way she is in court which shows no emotion, is she under some heavy duty psych medicine?

WALSH: That`s a great question.

PINSKY: It`s a great question. I don`t see -- I don`t get that flavor about it.

WALSH: Do they often do that? Take somebody when they`re testifying?

(CROSSTALK)

COOMBS: Remember -- look back at the tapes of when she was talking to the detectives, too. Did you see that same type of disassociative going on there?

PINSKY: You know what, I didn`t. She was very, very present and that, to me, that`s one of the more damning parts of this whole story. She was so -- like Casey Anthony, she was so deliberate with her lies and so present.

WALSH: But maybe it`s so rehearsed right now, Dr. Drew. Maybe that her attorneys have gone through it so many times that she`s just saying lines at this point.

COOMBS: Maybe it`s just acting.

EIGLARSH: Yes.

COOMBS: Bad acting.

PINSKY: So, Mark, this is your field. This is what you do with defendants. You have defendants to lie and act on the stand?

EIGLARSH: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

EIGLARSH: No, but let me change the words around a little bit. For sure, she has properly practiced/rehearsed, number one. And number two, her attorneys have told her, you win this battle if you stay calm. Stay calm, because when cross-examination happens and this hot-headed prosecutor comes at you, you will beat him if you stay calm. And that`s what she`s doing.

PINSKY: Loni, last word.

COOMBS: Mark, do you really think that she wears glasses?

(LAUGHTER)

EIGLARSH: Hell no.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: You know what? You know what. She`s wearing a prescription right now, because when she turns her head to the side, you can see the eyes -- the part -- see me. This little space here?

WALSH: She borrowed somebody`s prescription glasses. They may not actually help her to see.

PINSKY: Maybe that`s why she looks out so strangely at the audience and all. All right. Thank you very much, Gayla. I do appreciate you being here and sharing your thoughts, Gayla Lynch. Also, Loni Coombs, Mark Eiglarsh. We have Mark from SpeakToMark.com.

Next up, I`ve got my jurors from the courtroom. They`re going to weigh in about what went down today and how they`re feeling about Jodi now.

And then later, we`ll be addressing a preschool sex scandal with four and five-year-olds, the father of a boy who says he was victimized by another child. And I`m warning you, this is difficult, graphic, disturbing. We`re going to try to tackle it. Tragic, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: It`s time for what we`re calling "Dr. Drew`s Jury." I`m back with my co-host this week, psychologist, Wendy Walsh. Joining us Katie Wick and Carolyn Reynolds. They were in the courtroom today as the Jodi Arias trial continued. And Jodi, herself, continued her testimony. All right. Now, Katie, yesterday you had like zero sympathy for Jodi. How do you feel today?

KATIE WICK, DR. DREW, "JUROR": I have zero sympathy for Jodi.

WALSH: Wow! Nothing changed?

WICK: She was on the stand -- no, nothing -- nothing changed at all, because today, I saw her, she actually -- she was talking and she actually laughed. She was talking about when she was at the convention with Travis and she kind of giggled and laughed, and I looked at Travis` sisters, and I thought that`s just completely inappropriate.

And then, she started -- when she started talking about the sex and all that, then she started getting a little bit -- she began to look down and started picking at her nails, and I just think she is playing this to the hill, although, she was a lot more confident on the stand today than she was yesterday.

PINSKY: Yes, Katie, I heard a lot of things like -- you observed, I observed, too, that looking down at her hands during the talk -- this talk about the sexuality when she was supposed to be so uncomfortable look disengenuine (ph). A lot less "ums" than today, almost every answer to the beginning of yesterday`s testimony started with "um." An "um" for me means I`m thinking about my lie.

WALSH: Do you think she was reprimanded last night by her attorneys?

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: Carol, do you agree with Katie or do you have any other thoughts?

WICK: No, just that, and it was really interesting, because between the morning and the afternoon session, I saw the prosecutor. I was watching the prosecutor very closely, and he was sitting back in his chair, pretty relaxed.

But then, when Jodi began in the second session, the afternoon session talking about the sexual encounters and all of that, saying how embarrassed she was, I saw Prosecutor Martinez start really writing away, writing away, thinking, yes, Jodi, I bet you were real embarrassed. I have a little idea of probably what`s going through his mind on

WALSH: Which is what? What`s his idea?

WICK: Which is, you sure weren`t embarrassed when you were doing this, were you?

WALSH: Right.

PINSKY: Carol, your thoughts?

CAROLYN REYNOLDS, DR. DREW, "JUROR": Oh, the picture.

WICK: The photos.

REYNOLDS: Well, she did change today. When I got to see her directly about two weeks ago, and it was just me looking at her and she has a completely different demeanor, and actually, she can stare at you kind of like an animal.

PINSKY: Wait, wait, Carol, what do you mean? Hang on a second. What do you mean like you can feel sort of an energy coming from her when she looked at you?

REYNOLDS: No, that`s the odd thing. There`s like no energy. And, when she`s on the stand, she can talk and so forth, but when she`s just looking at you, she`s robotic, but in the oddest way, because she moves kind of slow. And I wondered if that`s part of her problem.

WALSH: Dr. Drew, what do you make of this?

PINSKY: Right, Carol. And I wonder that myself. Again, the whole notion of the chronic disassociation, you got to wonder about this. People can feel out of body when they`re stressed. That`s what happens.

WALSH: Or is it a symptom of we talked about borderline personality disorder, where she`s really vacant. She`s empty inside, and she`s looking outside of herself --

PINSKY: We`re really kind of talking about the same thing. Katie, what about the family`s reaction to say, you know, let`s talk about Travis` family first. They seem to be shooting darts at her all day.


WICK: Oh, my heart just breaks, Dr. Drew, for this family and I had an experience -- they were just -- they were just looking at her, and I can`t imagine what they`re going through. I actually had a -- I was sitting outside. One day, I wasn`t able to get in. For about an hour later after second session had begun, and I was standing out there.

And all of a sudden, that was the day that the prosecutor put up the photo for a couple seconds, and the family didn`t know, and I was sitting there and I saw the sisters just come running out, just sobbing and crying, and Travis` brother come and that`s when it hit me in my gut, Dr. Drew, that this is real and some people might look at it as a soap opera, but these are real people and their lives are forever, ever changed.

And I got that same stare. I got that same stare that Carolyn got here as well in the courtroom. It`s very, very eerie.

REYNOLDS: It is.

PINSKY: Interesting. Let`s quickly go to a caller who wants to ask you guys a question. This is Desiree in Rhode Island -- Desiree.

DESIREE, RHODE ISLAND: Hi, yes. I just wanted to say, I`ve been following this case. Jodi comes along as she wants to whom she wants to. I think she`s a master manipulator and a sociopath. I mean, just look at her. She is as cold and calculated as they come.

WALSH: You know what`s fascinating is that most of the callers who believe this are females.

PINSKY: Yes.

WALSH: I want to know what`s going on in the minds of those 11 male jurors. If you were there, Dr. Drew, you`ve got a male brain on your head, what would you be thinking?

PINSKY: I think she might -- not myself, but a male brain, I could see how she might have a certain amount of certainly sympathy for some men. I can see that.

WALSH: What about allure?

PINSKY: Allure, all that kind of quality. If they don`t really --

WALSH: They`re talking about her sexual behavior and, you know, what she did on a first date. Doesn`t that kind of make guys dismiss some of her bad sides?

PINSKY: I`m sure -- I think on some level, you`re absolutely right. Katie, one quick question before I let you guys go. I saw -- I`ve seen too what you guys are talking about. To me, it feels like a fury that`s coming through her eyes once in a while. When she looks at certain people, in response to certain questions, it, really, is a flash. I thought oh -- that`s the stuff that probably we need to hear about. Do you agree?

WICK: Yes, I absolutely agree with you, and it`s interesting, because she stared at me, I`d say it felt a lot longer than ten seconds, but it was about 10 seconds. And I just looked at her, and then, all of a sudden, her attorney or somebody on the defense side walked past her and she says, oh, nice shoes. Completely changed within less than a second. And I just thought, wow, that was interesting.

WALSH: And even a stare for ten seconds. Usually, humans don`t stare for longer than, what is it Dr. Drew?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: And now, with a 10 seconds, it makes you feel like there`s something --

WALSH: That`s a long time.

PINSKY: Katie, you have something else to say?

WICK: It wasn`t nice. It wasn`t nice at all. And it was funny because you just mentioned the men. I spoke with a gentleman earlier today after -- it was his first time today, and he had suffered some emotional abuse in his marriage he said. And he said, you know, Katie, the first thing I thought when I saw Jodi was, wow, she`s so petite.

There`s no way -- I just can`t imagine such a petite girl doing this. And I`m thinking of and I look at her hands, Dr. Drew, she`s got very petite hands, and I know I`m not the only one thinking what she did with those hands. And I really wonder if there are men on this jury thinking is it -- there must have been something that led her to do this. Yes, exactly.

PINSKY: I think you`re right. I think that`s what they`re going to build to. Katie and Carol, thank you so much.

 ::snipping2::


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« Reply #152 on: February 06, 2013, 06:11:45 PM »

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-forced-anal-sex-travis-alexander-baptized/story?id=18420949
Jodi Arias Claims She Was Forced into Sex by Travis Alexander After He Baptized Her
February 6, 2013

Accused murderer Jodi Arias was baptized into the Mormon church by her Mormon elder boyfriend Travis Alexander, who then proceeded to force her to have anal sex, she testified today in court.

Alexander's sisters, seated in the gallery of the courtroom where Arias testified, rolled their eyes and shook their heads as Arias described the anal sex experience.

Arias testified that two months after meeting Alexander, she converted to Mormonism and was baptized by Alexander in a public ceremony in which she stood in a large font. After the ceremony, she left with Alexander.
More...

Video at Link
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« Reply #153 on: February 06, 2013, 10:53:48 PM »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/woman-charged-in-lovers-slaying-in-arizona-gives-graphic-description-of-sexual-relationship/2013/02/06/aad5ccec-70bc-11e2-b3f3-b263d708ca37_story.html
Woman charged in loverís slaying in Arizona gives graphic description of sexual relationship
February 6, 2013

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« Reply #154 on: February 07, 2013, 04:55:10 PM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/06/ijvm.01.html
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Jodi Arias Reveals Details of Sex Life

Aired February 6, 2013 - 19:00   ET


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: An explosive, X-rated day in court as Jodi Arias reveals graphic details about the nature of her sex life with Travis Alexander and what she claims he did to her right after he baptized her. Is she a victim or is she a vixen using the sex abuse excuse?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, Jodi Arias back on the stand with more X-rated shockers, telling jurors Travis Alexander`s sexual demands made her feel like a used piece of toilet paper and a prostitute.

The defense paints Travis as a hypocrite, claiming he had painful sex with Jodi right after baptizing her. So, did Jodi snap and kill him for sexually humiliating her? What impact is all this embarrassing testimony having on the jury? We`ll show you the biggest moments from court today and debate it. Plus, we`re taking your calls.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: I was in my church clothes. He was in his church clothes. He spun me around. He bent me over the bed.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: While he was supposed to be this virginal Mormon man who didn`t want to have any type of relationship with Jodi and she just wouldn`t leave him alone, in this phone call he talks about his fantasies.

ARIAS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) He did what he called -- at that time he called it grinding.

I trusted what I was told by him, so I didn`t feel like we were sinning.

WILLMOTT: Were you shocked to learn that he was not a virgin?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

ARIAS: He took out, and you take back (ph). And I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, unbelievable triple-X-rated stories straight from Jodi Arias herself.

The accused cold-bloodied murderer says her ex-boyfriend repeatedly sexually degraded her in the most painful of ways, but is it enough to prove to a jury she killed Travis Alexander in self-defense?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. The stunning 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, slit his throat from ear-to-ear, and shot him in the face, but she claims it was all done in self-defense.

Jodi shocked the entire courtroom when she explained how Travis baptized her into the Mormon church in the morning and then brought her home and pushed her to have kinky sex just hours later.

We have to warn you: this is very graphic material, but it is what Jodi said in open court, and it`s central to the defense claim that Jodi was sexually degraded and abused by Travis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: We were kissing, and I was in my church clothes. He was in his church clothes. Kissing got more passionate, more intense, and then he spun me around. He bent me over the bed. He began to have anal sex with me.

KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did you say anything? Did you tell him no?

ARIAS: No.

NURMI: Was it pleasurable for you, physically?

ARIAS: That time it was painful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jaws continued to drop in the courtroom. Look at these folks. They`re clearly shocked as Jodi described how Travis regularly made her feel cheap and used. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute, sort of. I was beginning to think that I`ve been very stupid and he got what he wanted, and he wasn`t interested in me anymore, which I felt -- I didn`t feel very good. I felt like a used piece of toilet paper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, was Jodi a sexually degraded woman who had to kill Travis in self-defense, or is she a willing participant in kinky sex, who is now using it to try to get away with a vicious murder?

What do you think? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. You were in court during all of this blush-inducing testimony. It makes "Fifty Shades of Grey" look like a tepid teen romance novel. What was it like to be in the courtroom during all of this?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: I have to tell you, Jane, the most important thing I thought that happened today just happened as court was ending.

It`s when Jodi was describing Valentine`s Day. And her and Travis are dating, and he sends her a gift for Valentine`s Day. And she gets home, and it`s on her doorstep. It`s from Travis. She opens the gift, and there`s chocolates on top. And it`s a really -- it`s a cute, thoughtful gift, right? But when she goes underneath, he also sent her little boy`s underwear, alluding to that he is a pedophile.

And right when she said that, I was looking at Travis Alexander`s family sitting in the front row. Remember, his two sisters, his brother, the aunt, are all sitting there. They`re wearing blue ribbons in memory of their brother. They`re -- they`ve been there every single day of the testimony.

And as soon as she said that Travis sent her little boy`s underwear, you could just see Travis`s sister, Tanisha, and she was, like, nodding [SIC] her head. You could just feel the anger as she was -- she was going like this, like "That is not true. How dare you paint my brother like that?"

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think it was Spider-Man underwear, and we will analyze the significance of that claim. And, remember, these are claims. This man you`re looking at here is no longer around to defend himself or put any of his e-mails or voice mails or photos into context.

Jodi was baptized by Travis Alexander into the Mormon faith. Now, here`s that photo of Jodi and Travis from that very day. We`re going to show it to you in a second. Remember, there it is. They`re in white. This is graphic testimony, but it goes to the point, the central point of the defense case, that Jodi was sexually degraded by Travis.

Today in court, Jodi claims right after this baptism ceremony, where she`s dunked in water and Travis says an incantation of some sort, they stripped out of their white spiritual garments, and Travis had anal sex with her, despite the Mormon religious insistence on no premarital sex. Jodi claims Travis said it was OK because it wasn`t vaginal sex.

Even though a previous boyfriend testified he had the same kind of sex with Jodi, she seemed intent on conveying to the jurors that she was an innocent, hurt and corrupted by Travis`s sexual demands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NURMI: Was it pleasurable for you, physically?

ARIAS: That time it was painful. Somewhat.

NURMI: Given that it was painful, why didn`t you tell him no?

ARIAS: Eventually, I did. If I would just let him continue, but it was -- became too painful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point, you and she even enjoyed, I believe, on two occasions, anal sex, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly once.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen, let`s debate this, because, essentially, we`ve got two story lines that are conflicting, and the jurors could take either one. So, let`s debate it with our expert legal panel.

Is Jodi effectively saying, "I was an innocent. I was corrupted and sexually abused by this man who used sex as a way to control me and who used religion as a cover"?

Or was she a willing participant, as you see here in one of her photos -- we`re not showing you the whole, but it`s -- whole photo, but she`s naked -- was she a willing participant in kinky sex?

OK, let`s bring our attorneys, Jordan Rose, Lisa Bloom, Eric Schwartzreich, Holly Hughes. And I want to start with Holly Hughes.

HOLLY HUGHES, ATTORNEY: OK. I`m game. What do you need to know, Jane?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, your opinion. What do you think?

HUGHES: Well, you know, the defense is walking a fine line here. I get where they`re going. And I`ve got to say, I respect this defense team for putting it all out there, because they`re taking a lot of heat, but what they`re trying to do is explain her pattern of behavior, so when that defense expert of domestic violence comes up next week or in the next couple of days, they will say it is very possible that an educated, intelligent, successful woman would, in fact, stay in a relationship like this.

And they are taking their time. They`re getting it all out there. It is graphic, and it`s hard to hear, but they`re going to follow that with a DV expert who is going to explain it is possible.

The only concern I have -- and I see where the defense is going -- is exactly what you hit on. She`s not a complete innocent. She has lived with a man before. She has engaged in sex, possibly anal once before with another boyfriend. So they need to be really careful about painting her too much of an innocent, or it`s going to backfire with the jury, and they`re going to think they`re being disingenuous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for Avo.com.

LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVO.COM: You know, I think she`s really an insult to people who are genuine abuse survivors.

She`s a grown woman. This is a man with whom she had consensual sex. If she didn`t like it, frankly, she should have said no or at least not returned again and again and again to have sex with him.

And it`s very easy for her now, now that he`s deceased, to create stories about those sexual interludes. But, P.S., what does any of this have to do with a murder trial? It`s very interesting. It`s very lurid, but what`s it have to do with self-defense? We still have yet to hear one incident where she was physically threatened by him. I`m still waiting.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eric Schwartzreich?

ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, ATTORNEY: Jane, wow. Salt-n-Pepa can sum this case up: Let`s talk about sex, baby. And sex sells. The million-dollar question is, is Jodi Arias selling this to the jury?

I don`t know the answer, but I know the questions: Is it anal sex? Is it oral sex? Apparently, according to her, even Mormons love sex.

All this time this trial has been going on, she`s been on the stand three days and not one talk about self-defense. I imagine -- and it`s unfortunate that a lot of women feel like prostitutes sometimes, but this is a self-defense case. Does the sex, do these relationships, does it add up?

And is the defense team and is Jodi selling this, is this self- defense? We haven`t had one mention, nothing, about the self-defense. All of this talk about the abusive relationships, it`s a tactic. And I wonder if all this talk about blow jobs, if that`s blowing the case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Blowing the case. Ha-ha. Jordan Rose, your thoughts.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: How can we even believe anything she`s saying? I mean, we`ve had a couple people testify already, past girlfriends of Travis, that he was an absolute gentleman in their relationships. We`ve had a number of people, both before and after Travis, testify that Jodi was the aggressor, physically.

And so all of this testimony -- if I hear one more time that defense attorney say, "How does this make you feel" to Jodi, I just -- I mean, how did it make Travis feel when she [SIC] was stabbed 29 times? He is not on trial here. He is not here to defend himself. And that`s what they`re doing and it`s, frankly, insulting, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, on the other side of the break, we`re going to talk about why Jodi Arias has been allowed to, essentially, take control of this case and this courtroom for three days, talking about everything under the sun. Why is the judge allowing it? There`s an actually good reason for it. That`s on the other side, and we`re taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: We were getting intimate. We were making out, basically. He began to remove my clothes.

I wasn`t expecting that. This was the first time we were kissing.

NURMI: All your clothes?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He was texting me after the banquet. He said really nice things. We sat down and ended up talking for a few more hours about just about everything. On the elevator, he leaned in very close as if he wanted to kiss me. And he was licking his lips, and he was staring at my lips. He got right in my face. He licked his lips and said, "I wish you didn`t have a boyfriend."

NURMI: Did you kiss him?

ARIAS: No. He made it very obvious that he wanted to kiss me, but he, like, he was restraining himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Photos of Travis`s penis were entered into evidence today and projected on a huge screen in court. Talk about the blush factor. Imagine how his family felt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: Those are pictures of Travis`s erection.

NURMI: And when did you -- or how did you come into possession of these photos?

ARIAS: They were sent to me.

NURMI: How?

ARIAS: Via his phone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She says Travis asked her to sext him back, but she wouldn`t send photos of herself.

Once again, she`s attempting to portray herself as the innocent one here, indeed, the victim, corrupted and manipulated by the man that she ended up killing in a very vicious fashion. But this time they actually had photos to support this particular claim.

I want to go out to the phone lines. Joy, New Mexico, your question or thought. Joy, New Mexico.

CALLER: Well, I`m a Mormon. I`m 79 years old, and I`m very sad about how they`re portraying this young gentleman. My question was, what period of time did this take place? He`s supposed to be a CEO running a business, very successful. How come he can have so much time to be in bed with her all the time?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me go to Beth Karas, correspondent "In Session," who probably knows more about this case than anyone.

First of all, are there Mormons amongst the jurors? Do we know that? And why is Jodi Arias being allowed to go on and on for day after day talking about everything under the sun? What does it have to do with the fact that this is a death-penalty case, Beth?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Jurors were asked in the questionnaire their religion, but we don`t know the answers. Those -- the answers to the questions in the questionnaires have not been made public, so I can`t tell you if there are any Mormons on the jury. I would highly doubt it, but I can`t say for sure.

Why all this detail? Apparently, the two experts who are scheduled to testify after Jodi Arias, domestic violence and a psychologist -- one will say she suffers from battered women`s syndrome or something like that, and the other one will say post-traumatic stress disorder -- they relied on her entire history, not just her relationship with Travis Alexander, but her relationships with men in general, and the abuse she suffered at the hands of her parents, who would hit her as part of their discipline when she was a child and a teen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, how does she make the leap from all of this sex talk -- oh, she was coerced, not physically, but she was encouraged to have anal sex with him and all sorts of other things that I don`t want to repeat unnecessarily, but you know. We all know what we`re talking about here. How do you make the leap from that to she killed him in self-defense?

DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think what the -- what the defense is trying to paint is that this is a person who`s gone through multiple instances of abuse in her life: by her parents, by past boyfriends. And she stuck around, because a lot of times what we know about victims of abuse is that they gravitate towards the familiar, even if it`s bad. And so this would explain why she keeps going back to Travis, even though he mistreats her.

But even if she is telling the truth, and she was an abused individual, there are many people abused who have post-traumatic stress disorder, who have these symptoms, and they don`t go out killing people.

And so I think they`re trying to paint her as the victim, but it`s really hard when they try to do that unilaterally when she seems to have driven so much of their relationship.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Lieberman?

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, yes. And we have to put it into perspective, Jane. The reality is Jodi Arias could take the stand right now and say Travis Alexander had three heads, for example, and she would go unchallenged right now. So, we really have to keep it into perspective.

This cross-examination will be legendary. Mr. Martinez is scribbling down notes for every question, and the longer that Jodi Arias stays on the stand, the longer the cross-examination into all of her lies is going to be.

We`re only up to, like, March of 2007 right now. She could be up for another day or two just on direct examination.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We haven`t even gotten to the sex tapes yet. Supposedly a long, a great amount of sex tapes that we`ve got to hear between, allegedly, Travis and Jodi. We thought we were going to hear them today. We didn`t. So, we`ve got that to look forward to.

More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NURMI: Was he treating you as a girlfriend in front of these people and not in front of -- in front of others? Is that what you`re telling us?

ARIAS: Yes.

NURMI: Did he introduce you to them as his girlfriend?

ARIAS: No. I was kind of just a friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute, sort of. I was beginning to think that I`ve been very stupid and he got what he wanted, and he wasn`t interested in me anymore, which I felt -- I didn`t feel very good. I felt like a used piece of toilet paper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, there she is sort of almost crying when she says that. What an embarrassing thing to have to say in front of, essentially, the world.

Susan Constantine, body language expert, what do you make of her demeanor, her tone of voice?

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, when she`s talking about those moments, especially when the anal sex part came about, you know, her voice softened, she put her head down. I saw very reliable signs of sadness and also lots of insecurity, feeling defeated, you know. So, this in itself was showing me that that was really how -- not how she was feeling herself at that moment, but all these other people are watching her. Mom is there, right there in the gallery looking at her, and she`s looking and she`s feeling ashamed.

You saw some fidgeting. You would see her with her fingers kind of upside-down -- we would call upside-down steeple -- which is showing a lot of insecurity, versus someone that would do this, which is more fact finding.

So she would look at the jury, of course, answer the questions, because she`s connecting, building rapport with the jury, and then she -- but it seems kind of robotic.

But overall, this time, she really looked a little bit more deflated, but I think it was more about those very, very intricate detailed information that she was ashamed, because her mother was in the audience.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are those who say she sounds rehearsed. So let`s bring in our legal panel again.

Lisa Bloom, is it ethical for a defense attorney to, literally, rehearse this kind of testimony?

BLOOM: Oh, absolutely. We, as attorneys, I`m -- I`m rehearsing a client right now for a hearing. You can go over. You can do question and answer, and that`s all protected by attorney-client privilege.

The one thing you cannot do is suborn perjury. You can`t put a witness on the stand if you know that they are going to lie and ask them questions that will elicit the lie. But other than that, of course, you go over the testimony with your client.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s go to the phone lines. Cindy, California, your question or thought. Cindy, California.

CALLER: Yes, hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

CALLER: I love your show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

CALLER: And me and my rescue dogs watch you every day.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wonderful.

CALLER: I had a comment about this underwear business. If you remember the movie "Charlie`s Angels" when it came out, Cameron Diaz was wearing Spider-Man underwear when she was dancing. You now, so it was like a funny thing.

And actually, on my 40th birthday a few years ago, some friends got me some as a joke, because they said my butt looked like her butt. You know what I mean? So it`s not, like, a sexual thing. It`s...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think you`re -- I think you`re making a point. I mean, the defense, Holly Hughes, is going to take these Spider- Man underwear that Travis Alexander reportedly sent to her on Valentine`s Day, along with chocolates and other things, and try to turn that into some kind of argument that he is some kind of pedophile. That`s a leap.

HUGHES: That is a leap. I`ll give you that, Jane. I mean, I like what this defense team is doing, but, yes, that`s reaching.

And let me tell you something, Mr. Martinez is going to get every little bit of this. He is furiously taking notes.

And the thing about this particular defendant, Jodi Arias, when she`s testifying to all this, she`s so exact and she`s so specific. And she remembers this date and this time, and I stopped at Starbucks on the way home. You better believe he`s taking every little tiny note like that. This man is sharp.

I wouldn`t doubt he knows about the underwear from the "Charlie`s Angels" movie, or he`s watching your show tonight; now he knows about it. He`s going to ask about that. "You all watched movies together. Wasn`t that something?" They`ve got to be careful. It`s a very fine line.

I understand where they`re going. I know why they`re doing it, but yes, they`ve got to be really, really careful. Because if they go too far, the jury will resent them and feel they`ve been lied to if they try to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. They can buy back the sale, in essence. We`re far from done debating another explosive day of testimony from Jodi Arias.

Top of the hour, Nancy Grace has her take on all the latest developments at 8 and 10 p.m. Eastern.

But on the other side of the break, we`re going to play that sound bite involving the Spider-Man children`s underwear and continue to analyze all of the unbelievable comments made by Jodi Arias on the stand today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: Out of the corner of my eye I saw somebody walking toward me. I stepped out of the way, because I thought he needed to walk past me, but he stopped right in front of me and stuck his hand out and introduced himself to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: He called me a "skank". He called me "Pollyanna". He called me "porn star". They advised me to stop dating him immediately.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI ARIAS` DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Travis was still able to use Jodi for his own sexual desires through the phone.

ARIAS: I just (inaudible) his agenda.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Oh, yes. There`s the phone sex that she records.

ARIAS: He was actually very flirtatious with another woman. It was with a married woman. It made me question what his values were regarding marriage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He made a joking comment to the waitress about him and Jodi not dating.

ARIAS: Sometimes he wouldn`t even hold my hand. He`d just be like -- he wouldn`t introduce me to anybody.

WILLMOTT: In reality, Jodi was Travis`s dirty little secret.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another stunning day in court today. Jodi Arias, day three on the stand, and she delivered some shocking allegations claiming that right after Travis Alexander baptized her into the Mormon faith and they are wearing the gowns -- and that is the shot right there from the baptism. Hours after that, he takes her home and they take off their clothes and he has anal sex with her.


The defense is portraying Travis as a master manipulator, using the cloak of religion to turn Jodi into some kind of sex slave. We warn you, this testimony is graphic, but it`s central to the defense case.

Here`s what Jodi says about the Mormon vow of chastity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: Vaginal sex was off limits and everything else was, more or less, ok.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who gave you that understanding?

ARIAS: Travis did. It just seemed like he sort of had, like, the Bill Clinton version, where he`s over here it seemed like oral and anal sex were also sex to me, but not for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course, Jodi is referring to Bill Clinton`s affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky, and who could forget this infamous statement?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Travis Alexander, obviously, not here to defend himself. He was viciously killed. So, how is the state going to refute this portrait that`s being painted of Travis as, call it what it is, a jerk, manipulator.

Jean Casarez, correspondent, "In Session" you`ve been there. What strikes you about this day three of testimony, where to me it seems like she is, literally, taking the reins of this entire case?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Yes. You know, a lot of things strike me. But you were just talking about the Mormon vows, right? And she`s baptized. And she is made -- gives a solemn promise to uphold those vows. And she says that Travis Alexander told her that the vow of premarital sex only involves vaginal sex.

But I heard her say on the stand about the -- the grinding aspect. She talks about that. And she said on the stand, it`s what a lot of Mormons do, but they are not supposed to do before marriage. Well, then you know it`s wrong.

If you know you`re not supposed to do it, you know it`s wrong. So jurors could think she knew what she was doing was wrong, she wasn`t so innocent.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, I think everybody wants to know and indeed the defense attorney kept asking her, "Why did you stay? Why didn`t you leave?"

DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: And I think the defense is trying to get at this point of what we know about abuse victims. Abuse victims do tend to stay in their relationships with their abuser because it`s what they know, because it`s the only way that they feel validated and love, because that`s part of their experience.

And so that`s why they started from the beginning of her life and how she was severely abused by her father and mother, allegedly, and how then she had some abusive boyfriends before Travis. And so we`re trying to paint that she`s repeating that pattern again and again until she got to Travis.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: They can -- Jane, they can paint whatever they want, but let me tell you this. Let`s not forget that Jodi Arias actually broke it off. She broke up, by herself, with many of the other men she had dated, so why didn`t she simply break it off with Travis if she was so abused?

And the other thing, Jane, is even if you believe every single thing that Jodi Arias said today, which is such a leap, because we already know she`s a proven liar. But if you believe what she said today, I still don`t understand where the link to any sort of self defense is.

She doesn`t claim he was physically abusive. She hasn`t said he was even really verbally abusive. She never set any boundaries in the relationship, so I`m just not quite sure where that leap to stabbing somebody 27 times is -- 27 times.

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: And Jane --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Lisa.

BLOOM: -- you know who else stays in relationships? You know who else stays in relationships? People who are perfectly happy in relationships --

LEIBERMAN: Yes, Lisa.

BLOOM: People who are having consensual sex that they are enjoying --

LEIBERMAN: Yes.

BLOOM: -- and so that would be another explanation why Jodi Arias stayed in the relationship. I don`t believe anything she has to say about Travis, by the way and therefore I don`t believe anything she says about her family and all of these other incidents of supposed abuse. I think we should take all of it with a big grain of salt.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well --

LEIBERMAN: It is convenient, as Lisa says, it`s convenient now that she`s on the stand to rewrite history, but if she was truly defending herself against Travis, why didn`t she pick up the phone and call police the moment after she killed him? Why did she take a gun and a knife to his house? Why did she drive to go see him?

Why, because she was infatuated with him. She didn`t want to break it off and that`s what the evidence has shown and will show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney, here`s how I see this case going. She`s taking this kinky relationship that they had, which would appear to involve role-playing, dominance and submission. He`s claimed this authority by baptizing her and then he has a degrading sexual experience with her right after -- allegedly, purportedly. So he`s creating sort of a dominance and submission kind of relationship, but she is going along with it.

So, is she essentially taking what was a consensual S&M type of relationship and now trying to turn it into sexual abuse, and aren`t those two totally different things?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They are completely different things, Jane, and that`s exactly why they are going to follow up all of this testimony, all of this sexual testimony with experts, her psychologist and then a domestic violence expert, to try and explain to the jury that you should believe Jodi`s version because she exhibits this sign or that sign or this manifestation.

Because ultimately it matters what the 12 people in the box believe, and you`re exactly right, this could be an explanation of a dominant/submissive, S&M type of thing -- that both parties were into it, enjoying.

What the defense is saying is, no, this was manipulation. This was emotional abuse. This was emotional battering. And that`s why they are going to back up her testimony with the experts to try and explain to a jury that it is possible. And it will come down to does somebody on the jury think it`s possible.

I think the best the defense can go for here is hanging this jury. I don`t think you`re going to get 12 people to say this is self defense, but what they are trying to do is put enough reasonable doubt out there to say, is it possible that she was abused? And since Travis is not alive to testify, we have to have the dynamic between the two explained through his words, his text messages -- all of that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Jordan Rose -- Jordan Rose, what can happen is they can now bring on a domestic violence expert to explain why victims of abuse don`t leave, because her attorney keeps asking her, why didn`t you leave?

Well, she gives various answers, but this expert is now going to come in and say, battered women don`t leave. Psychologically-battered women don`t leave, just as physically battered women don`t leave. What do you do with that?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Well, you know, they have to prove that he was doing something physically abusive to her, and that`s not in any of the testimony. I mean it`s possible that --
(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Jordan, let me just say this. Let me say this.

ROSE: -- now think that he`s a jerk --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think they are going to try to expand this notion of battered women`s syndrome to include not physical battering, but psychological emotions and sexual battering -- psychological, emotional, and sexual battering. What do you do with that?

ROSE: Well, you remember, you remind, as the prosecuting attorney absolutely will do -- we`ve seen them before and we`ll see them again -- very strong and justice will be served because he does his job here.

And he`s going to remind the jury that it has to be what a reasonable person would do in this situation. And a reasonable person would have to use deadly force to prevent this naked man who`s ticked off because you dropped his camera from killing you. I mean she`s almost like a comedian in the sense where she`s going, you know, the sex was terrible, but then I went and did it again and again and again. And it`s a very strange dynamic.

I`ve got to believe that some of these jurors, and hopefully all of these jurors, are looking at this going this is just like reading cosmopolitan magazine. This is a 20-year-old relationship where the guy is a little bit of a jerk sometimes and she keeps coming back. And she drives across the country to see him. She`s obsessed with him, and she`s taking the obsession that we`ve all known people who have had obsessive relationships -- she`s taken it one step too far, way too far.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side, more of Jodi Arias from her own mouth, and we`re taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: It was much more sexual in nature, and it was with a married woman -- an LDS married woman. It made me question what his values were regarding marriage. But I liked him, so I wasn`t going to break up with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
 ::snipping2::


BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He made some jokes toward me that were not very nice, but they were jokes. But still didn`t sit well with me, so I expressed that with some of his friends. They advised me to stop dating him immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will Jodi`s testimony help her? That`s the assumption, perhaps, but could it hurt her? Could it boomerang?

A lot of high-profiled defendants do not take the stand. You know who I`m talking about, Michael Jackson, O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony -- they didn`t talk, and they were acquitted. On the other hand, former San Diego socialite Betty Broderick took the stand, accused of murder; her first trial resulted in mistrial. She took the stand again and was convicted of second-degree murder.

Louis Woodward testified. The young British au pair was accused of shaking a baby she cared for to death. The jury convicted her of second- degree murder, but then the judge turned out to reduce the sentence to manslaughter and released her.

So, there`s no guarantee, my expert panel, that taking the stand is good for the defendant. It`s a "Hail Mary Pass". It`s a risk.

Eric Schwartzreich (ph), criminal defense attorney, do you think, ultimately, it was a good idea for Jodi Arias to take the stand?

ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they had absolutely no choice, Jane. She`s been talking so much, they are saying self defense. She needs to get on the stand.

But what every seasoned criminal defense attorney knows, which this defense attorney knows, is voir dire jury selection is where you win your trials.

And I heard one of your callers about three segments ago, she said she was a Mormon and she was focusing on where did he have enough time, where did Travis have time, if he was a Mormon, to engage in all this activity?

You better believe that when they were doing jury selection, they ask questions. They want to know if someone has been a victim of domestic abuse, domestic violence, they know their background. Everything that they`re putting in front of this jury has a reason --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But they don`t know everybody`s sexual history. They don`t know if everybody`s engaged in the type of kinky behavior or the type of sex acts that Jodi Arias described. They don`t know if any woman has ever resented performing, for example, oral sex on somebody; that she felt pressured into performing oral sex on a man.

Let`s continue our debate. I mean could this boomerang, Lisa Bloom?

BLOOM: It absolutely could. You know, this is 2013 America. I`m sure that most of the jurors are sitting there thinking, you know what, this is just ordinary sexual activity between two young people. Maybe the guy was a little pushy, but ultimately, she was a consenting adult, she went along with it. I`m sure they have a lot of healthy skepticism about her story.

And by the way, who is she to attack his values? This is a woman who stabbed him to death, who sliced his throat, who shot him. And now she`s on the stand saying, you know, I didn`t really like his values because he was pushing me into having sex even though he was a Mormon. I mean come on. I think the jury is seeing through all that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But I got to tell you, Jon Leiberman, how many cases have I sat through where all the great minds say, oh, this is going to result in a conviction and then the defendant walks.

LEIBERMAN: This one`s different. Jane, I`m telling you, this one is different. And let me tell you this too. Let`s be frank. The only reason why she is on the stand is to save her life. That is really it. I don`t think the defense thinks they have a chance in hell that she`s going to get acquitted. The point is, they are trying to save her life and that`s why they are meticulously going through all of this because then they can look at the jury and say, "Look, you`ve gotten to know Jodi through six or seven days of testimony, how are you going to put this woman to death?"

That`s really why she`s up there and that`s what they hope to accomplish.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Quickly, Holly Hughes.

HUGHES: Well Jane, the two examples you used, Betty Broderick and Louise Woodward, what did the jury come back with? Second-degree murder. So it gets Jodi off the hook for first-degree murder, and at this point, if they can`t hang it, they are looking for a lesser included to take the death penalty off the table.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. You had the Menendez brothers too.

HUGHES: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They spoke out in their own defense and they are both behind bars right now.

More on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/Jane. Baby Cloey -- you are adorable. Shadow -- oh, what a beauty. And Jaxon -- he likes to party. I can tell. Who is this? Farfel -- what a sweetheart -- Farfel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: When I opened it on top there were some chocolates and they were all melted completely. Beneath that was a shirt that he had been joking about getting me for some months, the one that was in the picture, said "Travis Alexander`s". The pink shorts, which I didn`t see his name on the back at first. I just picked them up and thought they were cute. They were boys` underwear, they were Spider-Man underwear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, what is the defense trying to do? What`s their point with the boys` Spider-Man underwear sent to Jodi from Travis on Valentine`s Day?

HO: Well, Jane, I think the defense is trying to paint him as a deviant. That he is somebody who is sexually deviant that he would resort to unusual methods of keeping her in this relationship. You know, the shirts where she was wearing -- where there was a possessive I`m Travis Alexander`s. And they`re really trying to build the case that he was at least psychologically abusive if not actually also physically abusive.

I know they haven`t gotten to that yet, but right now they`re just trying to paint him as a morally depraved individual that it`s possible for him to do something that could really drive Jodi Arias to the brink and finally kill him the way that she did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, what is the jury doing?

CASAREZ: I know, they`re different today from yesterday. Today they are sitting back in their seat versus on the edge of their seat. They`re not leaning forward today. But I`m seeing a lot of notes being taken. I mean they`re focused. They are completely focused.

But I see a lot of men jurors because it`s predominantly male at this point. We don`t have the alternates yet, and I see male jurors writing a lot of notes, more than yesterday.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do they seem embarrassed and shocked like those in the gallery?

CASAREZ: No. No. They don`t seem embarrassed and shocked. They seem matter of fact, listening to the evidence and writing it all down.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. More on the other side. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan Constantine, body language expert, take it away.

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, I found that with the long words she`s been using throughout and they`re very detailed information. Researchers found those large words with more than six letters are really significant with those that are detached from emotion and those long running sentences with deception.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tomorrow we are analyzing the testimony from a Mormon standpoint.

Nancy is next.

END
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« Reply #155 on: February 07, 2013, 05:01:53 PM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/06/ng.01.html
NANCY GRACE

Jodi Arias`s Anal Sex Defense

Aired February 6, 2013 - 20:00   ET


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I was in my church clothes. He was in his church clothes. I could feel an erection.

Those are pictures of Travis`s erection.

He had anal sex with me.

I kind of felt like a prostitute.

The first night was the grinding and the next night was oral sex.

I felt used. I kind of felt like a prostitute.

I kind of felt like a used piece of toilet paper.

(INAUDIBLE) and he stopped. It became too painful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The vow of chastity.

ARIAS: No premarital sex. Vaginal sex was off limits, and everything else was more or less OK.

It was a little confusing, the sex.

Sex is sex. He sort of had, like, the Bill Clinton version.

Oral and anal sex were also sex to me but not for him.

He finished by (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my back.

Called me a skank.

Called me Pollyanna.

Porn star.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight: Jodi Arias back on the stand, claiming she felt like, quote, "a prostitute," and quote, "a used piece of toilet paper." This after she drives hours for oral sex, gets baptized as a Mormon, then makes a beeline straight out of full emergent baptism, heads straight back for more anal sex in her church baptism clothes.

Let`s go straight back in the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I felt a little bit used, but I knew I had gone there on my own willingly.

He gets a hotel room. I show up. We hang out. We have sex. He`s not really there, presently -- like, he`s not mentally present. I`m getting a lot of attention but only while we`re engaging in sexual activity. And then we check out and he takes off. And I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute, sort of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever express a desire during this weekend to engage in anal sex with you?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did he over the course of that weekend in Arenberg (ph) discuss a desire to have vaginal sex with you?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it appears, based on what you`ve told us, you declined this desire to have anal sex, is that correct?

ARIAS: Yes, he was -- yes, I did. I just -- Yes. I didn`t -- we did not have anal sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. In expressing his desire for that, was he -- was that something he did repeatedly, or is that something that just came up one time?

ARIAS: It didn`t just come up one time. He wasn`t overly persistent about it, but it was somewhat repeated.

We were in my bedroom. We were not on the bed, but we were standing next to it and we were kissing. And I was in my church clothes. He was in his church clothes. The kissing got more passionate, more intense. And then he spun me around. He bent me over the bed, and he was just on top of me. I didn`t think anything -- I thought he was just going to keep kissing me. I was face down. My head was turned to the side.

His hands were wandering, and he lifted up my skirt and -- and he pulled down my underwear, and he was pressing against me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean pressing against you?

ARIAS: His whole body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he have an erection?

ARIAS: I could feel an erection. He unzipped his pants and I guess he pulled them down. I didn`t see. But he -- he began to have anal sex with me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you tell him no?

ARIAS: Eventually, I did. I probably would have just let him continue, but it was -- became too painful, because I knew that was what he had been wanting for a while, and I just -- I trusted him. I had a lot of trust. And he -- I just went with what he was -- with his agenda, I guess I could say.

I don`t think it went on too long, not several minutes, maybe a few. I mean, I wasn`t looking forward to it. But definitely, pain -- I had to - - I had to have him stop, otherwise I probably would have continued.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After he stopped, was that the end of the intimacy that day?

ARIAS: He finished by (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my back or somewhere, like, on me. And then we were finished. And then shortly -- I mean, I think we parted ways. We kissed and embraced and he left.

Shortly after he left I felt -- I didn`t feel very good. I kind of felt like a used piece of toilet paper. I didn`t continue feeling that way, just shortly thereafter for a little while I did.

I kind of said through clenched teeth, Stop, stop, stop, and he stopped. So I think he got the impression that it was not pleasurable at that point, but I never said anything about it after that of a negative nature.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you never advised him that you felt like, as I think you said, a used piece of toilet paper. You never (INAUDIBLE)

ARIAS: No. I wouldn`t have told him that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would not have, is that what you said?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?

ARIAS: Because I don`t think that would have made him feel very good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live at the courthouse, taking your calls. You are seeing on the stand Jodi Arias in her own defense. And she describes starting with oral sex in a parking lot near a Starbucks. It goes on to anal sex.

As a matter of fact, the day that Travis Alexander baptizes her at the Mormon church, they go straight back home, they make a beeline back to the apartment, back to the home for more anal sex.

You know, I`ve been thinking about this a lot. Let`s unleash the lawyers. With me, Jean Casarez, Beth Karas, both lawyers and correspondents on "In Session," Eleanor Odom, death penalty-qualified prosecutor. Also with me out of Atlanta, Peter Odom, defense attorney.

You know, Jean Casarez -- let`s see all the lawyers, please. Jean Casarez, very quickly, this is intended by the defense to paint a bad picture of Travis Alexander, that he basically used her for sex and then ignored her, mistreated her, took her for granted.

That`s the picture I`m getting, right?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": That`s one thing they`re trying to paint, but they`re trying to also go into what is in her head and the control that he had over her because he was her spiritual adviser who baptized her, and she seemed to follow everything he said.

GRACE: Well, of course, depending on the man that she was with, she was involved in a lot of different religions, witchcraft, Wicca, Hinduism, Buddhism, now Mormonism.

But the reality -- out to you, Eleanor Odom -- is that none of this goes toward self-defense. What it goes to is a simmering anger. They`re playing to these 11 women, or is it eight women on the jury, and they are trying their best to get them to draw (ph) into the story that Travis Alexander is a bad guy.

But what it`s really doing is showing that she was angry from day one, when he asked her to have oral sex and they were out in the car and he zips up his pants and drives off, refusing to kiss her, saying that was gross. All right. Nobody wants to hear that. But what it did was start a fire that goes from red to white to blue hot in the end, which results in a revenge killing, Eleanor.

ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Well, exactly right, Nancy. And the prosecution`s got to focus on that and focus on the fact that here is a person who was stabbed, the victim stabbed, 29 times. But you see what the defense is doing, and they`re just trying to distract the jury from anything other than the facts. So the state needs to keep on the facts.

GRACE: Very quickly, before we go back into the courtroom, Peter Odom -- I mean, she stabbed him 29 times. He was trying to crawl away, and she stabbed him nine times. Just think about it. Let your mind go there, stabbed him nine times in the back over and over and over again.

So what, she -- what, he wouldn`t kiss her after oral sex? That`s what I`m getting?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The only way that this can be self- defense is if she reasonably believed that she had to do this to protect herself. What the defense is doing is portraying Travis Alexander as building a crescendo of control over her. I think that we`re going to see this intensify until, finally, she felt she had to kill him to break the control.

GRACE: Joining me right now, Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session." What else did we see on the stand?

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, you know, we`ve seen her go through such detail in their relationship. And we thought the phone sex tape was coming in today. I mean, we kind of had some notice of that. She`s about a year away from when that recording was made. So I think she`s going to be on the stand for several more days.

But the jury was fixated on her. There were uncomfortable times, Nancy, where the jurors didn`t want to look at the photograph that was up on the screen in front of them, several times larger than life, of Travis Alexander`s erection. And it was all over the courtroom, the monitors all over the courtroom. It was something that he sent to her 15 days before he baptized her, according to Jodi Arias.

GRACE: Well, let me just say, Beth -- and I don`t really know how to say this. I`m sure the photo did not surprise her after the episode in the floorboard of his car. He sent a picture of it. Hey, she`s seen the real thing, the real deal.

All right, let`s go back to the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point in time, you had engaged in several, maybe a half dozen -- maybe not quite a half dozen -- instances of sexual contact with Mr. Alexander, right?

ARIAS: Yes -- well, how many did you say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, around a half dozen, give or take (INAUDIBLE)

ARIAS: Something close to that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And he doesn`t want anyone, seemingly, to know that you have any sort of relationship in December of 2006. So my question to you then is, how did that make you feel?

ARIAS: I didn`t give it too much thought. It didn`t make me feel good, but it didn`t make me upset. I just sort of -- it was something I kept ignoring and putting out of my mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: It was a little confusing, the sex, just where the line should be drawn, I guess. Sex is sex. There`s just different ways to have sex. And it seemed like -- it seemed like Travis was kind of -- I don`t know how to put it, but it just seemed like he sort of had, like, the Bill Clinton version, whereas over here, it seemed like, you know, oral and anal sex were also sex to me, but not for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Throughout her testimony, she describes how badly Travis Alexander treats her, according to her. We only have her word for it. But I`d like to point out that it was her, Jodi Arias, that traveled 300 to 1,000 miles a time to go be with Travis Alexander, to slash his tires twice, to slash his then new girlfriend`s tires, to break into his bank account, to break into his e-mail. She was pursuing him.

So that`s the backdrop of all this testimony about how awful he was to her, including, she claims, calling her skank, Pollyanna, porn star.

Let`s go in the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: ... called me Pollyanna. He called me porn star.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In front of people?

ARIAS: Pollyanna, yes. Porn star, no.

At the time, I had long platinum-blond hair, and I think because my demeanor at that time was kind of happy-go-lucky, positive, shrug things off if they were negative -- I always looked at the bright side of things. That`s kind of how I expressed myself. So with that demeanor plus my blond hair -- and he wanted to have braids sometimes. So he gave me that nickname.

He called me a skank.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In front of other people?

ARIAS: In front of his roommate, Josh Board (ph). We were on the phone, actually, when he said that. We were talking, and then he began to have a conversation with somebody else, so I waited. And then he apologized and said, Josh just got home. I said, Tell him I said hi. Jodi says hi.

And I could hear a muffled response in the background. It sounded friendly. But Travis said -- he said, You`re a skank. So I knew it came from Travis, not Josh. And then he said, I`m just kidding.

He opened the door for me because he had the room key, and he took my hand and walked me over to the bed, sort of, kind of holding (ph) me, but walked me. And I went willingly, of course.

We started kissing. It got a little more intense, a little more passionate, and then soon we were both nude on the bed. And there were certain things that he said that -- well, like, it`s -- it`s not -- I don`t know.

We didn`t have intercourse, so to speak. There was oral sex that weekend, but -- and that particular day, we did what I guess he called -- at the time, he called it grinding. So it`s kind of, like, you know, just being together but not actually having intercourse. That`s something that I guess a lot of Mormons do, but they`re not supposed to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, besides the grinding and the oral sex, you said you didn`t have intercourse during this encounter, this first encounter?

ARIAS: Not vaginal intercourse or (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anal intercourse?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just oral sex?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be so kind as to take a look at those. Do you recognize those?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are those pictures of?

ARIAS: Those are pictures of Travis`s erection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when did you -- or how did you come into possession of these photos?

ARIAS: They were sent to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How?

ARIAS: Via his phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Via a text message or a picture message?

ARIAS: A picture message.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are at the courthouse and taking your calls.

Out to Bill in Florida. Hi, Bill. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. My main point is exactly what you said. None of this goes to self-defense. And there`s something everybody is missing here. I want everyone to take a look at Travis in the shower right before he was stabbed to death 29 times...

GRACE: Hold on. Pull it up, Liz. Let`s see what Bill`s talking about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you look at the pictures of Travis in the shower, those pictures, I believe, he`s being held at gunpoint. He is not smiling. He is not posing. He`s not making happy faces.

I believe she ambushed him in the shower with the gun on him. She had the picture -- her camera on her neck and the knife nearby, and she made him take some pictures as a way of control and anger because she knew he was going out of town with this new girl, and she was going to take pictures of her last memories of murdering him.

And that`s why when she started stabbing him, he fleed (ph). You either fight or flight, and he fights, and that`s why -- he flighted. And that`s why he was running down the hall, I believe. But I guarantee you, he was...

GRACE: You know, Bill, I think that these photos -- let`s see those photos he`s talking about, Liz, of Travis in the shower just before his death.

This is, like, less than one minute before his death. I think that she was leading him on to believe he was still taking sexy photos. We agree in one point, Bill, and that is that she planned these and that she was manipulating him during these photos because we know she was fully clothed and he was naked, fully naked at the time in the photos, and they had just left having sex.

Now, Bill, what do you make of two days of testimony of Jodi Arias on the stand?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`ve been in relationships very similar to like this. Basically, he`s a controlling guy. No big -- that`s not a crime. And she is the type of girl that wants to be controlled.

And once this sex thing got out of hand, where she knew she was going to be replaced by this new girl he was going to take on this trip, she knew she was no longer going to be his little pet. And that`s when she decided to go there and kill him.

This is not a crime. Sure, it was some kinky sex, but come on, that`s not a right to stab somebody 29 times, slit them from ear to ear and shoot them in the head. I mean, it`s so -- it`s ridiculous! This is the first actually anal defense, you can call it, the anal defense. She`s had sex -- it`s silly. It`s sad. But she -- I don`t know what else to say about it. It`s ridiculous.

GRACE: You know what, Bill? I think you said it all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean by some things that had happened with some friends of his? What do you mean by that? At that time, specifically what was said?

ARIAS: Travis is -- he was a funny guy and he would make jokes a lot. And he made some jokes toward me that were not very nice, but they were jokes, but still didn`t sit well with me. So I expressed that with some of his friends when we were hanging out, and they advised me to...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, hearsay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

ARIAS: They advised me to stop dating him immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Jodi Arias on the stand, in graphic detail describing oral sex, anal sex, round two, essentially. She did it yesterday. She did it all day long today. And we`re going to take you back into the courtroom, but my big question, Matt Zarrell, why didn`t she just leave if she was so unhappy? Why did she chase him? Why did she drive 1,000 miles to get back to him?

ZARRELL: Nancy, that`s a great question, because at no point does she say she wants to break it off with Travis. She is the one who pursues him. In fact, there`s a time in late 2006 where Travis tells Arias to date other people, and Arias ends up getting back together with Travis.

GRACE: OK. Let`s go back in the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I kind of said through clenched teeth, stop, stop, stop, and he stopped. So I think he got the impression that it was not pleasurable at that point, but I never said anything about it after that of a negative nature.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you never advised him that you felt like, as I think you said, a used piece of toilet paper? You never (inaudible) him that?

ARIAS: No, I wouldn`t have told him that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would not have, is that what you said?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?

ARIAS: Because I don`t think that would have made him feel very good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many sexual interactions did you have with Mr. Alexander over this time in Arenberg (ph)?
ARIAS: I would say three, I mean total. If you just, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And these were all instances of sexual -- excuse me, oral sex?

ARIAS: No. Like the first night, it was the grinding and the next night was oral sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was the third encounter?

ARIAS: It was oral sex, also. It was before we left.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When did you first have penile intercourse with Mr. Alexander?

ARIAS: It would have been April or May. I think May. I`m pretty sure May, but it could have been April. It was in the spring.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Jodi Arias on the stand. We are taking your calls. Let`s go out to Beth Karas and Jean Casarez. They`ve been in the courtroom the whole day. All of us bringing you the very latest and taking your calls. Jean Casarez, tell me the jury reaction.

CASAREZ: They`re different today than yesterday, because yesterday when we were hearing the fairy tale of the convention where she got the ball gown --

GRACE: Cinderella.

(CROSSTALK)

CASAREZ: They were -- Cinderella -- they especially were on the edge of their seats. The female jurors, really, just leaning over, listening. Today they`re back in their seats. I don`t see them on the edge, but I`m seeing a lot of notes from the men on the jury, Nancy.

GRACE: What, they`re taking notes on anal sex?

CASAREZ: Ha! I can`t tell you exactly what they`re taking notes on.

GRACE: What is it? What triggers them, Jean? When do they start scribbling?

CASAREZ: All the way through this afternoon, I saw them jotting down notes. I really did. And this was, I mean, it`s all about anal sex, right, practically? When it happened, when it didn`t happen. But I think one of the biggest points that I saw possibly them taking notes was about the vow of no premarital sex, that vow that Jodi Arias says she just followed what Travis told her.


GRACE: You know, Beth Karas, the only thing that Jodi Arias hasn`t told me is, A, anything about the day Travis was murdered, or, B, exactly what they ordered at Chili`s. I mean, this is in such detail. Why? Instead of painting a portrait of self-defense, to me they are painting a picture of a woman who had a slow burn. The way she perceived that she was being ignored and mistreated.

KARAS: That`s one way of looking at it. But I think their experts relied on this entire history, her entire life, this alleged abuse at the hands of her parents, and then the nature of her relationships with men, and, of course, all the details of her relationship with Travis Alexander.

You need to contrast, though, the girlfriend, Lisa Andrews Diadoni, who testified for the state -- no, testified -- who was called by the defense, who was asked questions by the jury. This jury is smart. They asked her at the end, did he ever pressure you to have sex? Did you feel uncomfortable? Things like that. Never. If she said no to him, he respected her. So it would be interesting to see what the jury has to ask Jodi Arias, because Jodi Arias made it sound like, you know, she almost had no choice. She didn`t want to spoil the mood, she didn`t want to hurt his feelings.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. We need a shrink. Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist, and MD.

Dr. Taylor, she didn`t want to spoil the mood? Janet, Dr. Janet, she says the anal sex was so painful, she had to clench her teeth, and then she went back for more. She went back for more, including the day of her baptism.

Now, listen, the whole defense sounds to me like I was taken for granted and I was ignored. And he didn`t send me roses. You don`t send me flowers anymore. That is not self-defense. This is anger.

TAYLOR: Exactly. What you have is a desperate woman who is so dependent and so needy that she is willing to put up with anal sex and not tell him she doesn`t like it, because she doesn`t want him to leave her. Their whole relationship was built around sex.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Tell him -- she had to tell him she didn`t like it. Obviously, she was clenching her teeth, it hurt. She didn`t like it, but yet she kept going back.

TAYLOR: She kept going back because she was so desperate not to lose him, and that`s the whole thing. She was willing to put up with whatever sexual activity he wanted, but once he said I`m out of here, I have another girlfriend, she was so angry, she said, that`s it. You`re not going anywhere.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Danielle in Florida. Hi, Danielle. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I just had a comment. There`s the photo of Jodi and Travis in a pool.

GRACE: Right.

CALLER: With the waterfall behind them.

GRACE: Right.

CALLER: If you look at this photo, Jodi is sitting to Travis` left and she has her left hand holding his face down near his throat. Which, to me, is the same hand she probably used to slash his throat. I noticed when she was writing in court, she is a left-handed person. So I just find this photo very disturbing, because she is smiling in this photo. She doesn`t smile in many other photos, but in this situation --

GRACE: There it is.

CALLER: I just picture her, you know, as she is stabbing him in the back and she`s trying to crawl away from her, I picture her grabbing him by his head with that same smile on her face and slashing him from ear to ear with that same kind of hold that she has underneath his chin. And where her hand would be, I picture a gaping throat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: The bombshell this week in court, Jodi Arias takes the stand in her own defense. This is the woman who cried at the photo of a dog in court. But when she took the stand under oath, she glanced at the jury and said, yes, I killed Travis, looked away, looked back at the jury as if she were a robot. She had as much life as a mannequin at Saks Fifth Avenue.

Her testimony, in my mind, hurt her, hurt the defense. That`s why the conventional wisdom is do not put your client on the stand. Why remain silent and let the jury think you`re guilty, as opposed to speaking and confirming their suspicions?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He had been requesting photos for a while at this point, and - -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was he requesting photos of?

ARIAS: Naked pictures.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of you?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of particular body parts, or did he make any specific requests?

ARIAS: No, he didn`t specify body parts, not that I remember.


GRACE: Right.

CALLER: If you look at this photo, Jodi is sitting to Travis` left and she has her left hand holding his face down near his throat. Which, to me, is the same hand she probably used to slash his throat. I noticed when she was writing in court, she is a left-handed person. So I just find this photo very disturbing, because she is smiling in this photo. She doesn`t smile in many other photos, but in this situation --

GRACE: There it is.

CALLER: I just picture her, you know, as she is stabbing him in the back and she`s trying to crawl away from her, I picture her grabbing him by his head with that same smile on her face and slashing him from ear to ear with that same kind of hold that she has underneath his chin. And where her hand would be, I picture a gaping throat.



(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: The bombshell this week in court, Jodi Arias takes the stand in her own defense. This is the woman who cried at the photo of a dog in court. But when she took the stand under oath, she glanced at the jury and said, yes, I killed Travis, looked away, looked back at the jury as if she were a robot. She had as much life as a mannequin at Saks Fifth Avenue.

Her testimony, in my mind, hurt her, hurt the defense. That`s why the conventional wisdom is do not put your client on the stand. Why remain silent and let the jury think you`re guilty, as opposed to speaking and confirming their suspicions?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He had been requesting photos for a while at this point, and - -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was he requesting photos of?

ARIAS: Naked pictures.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of you?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of particular body parts, or did he make any specific requests?

ARIAS: No, he didn`t specify body parts, not that I remember.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you then feel a level of guilt for not reciprocating?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Leading.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.

ARIAS: Yes, I didn`t want to disappoint him. I felt like I disappointed him. He seemed very disappointed in me.

We were in my bedroom. We were not on the bed, but we were standing next to it. And we were kissing, and I was in my church clothes. He was in his church clothes. The kissing got more passionate, more intense, and then he spun me around. He bent me over the bed and was just on top of me. I didn`t think anything was -- I thought he was just going to keep kissing me. I was face down. My head was turned inside. His hands were wandering, and he lifted up my skirt, and -- and he pulled down my underwear, and he was pressing against me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean, pressing against you?

ARIAS: His whole body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he have an erection?

ARIAS: I could feel an erection. He unzipped his pants, and I guess he pulled them down. I didn`t see, but he -- he began to have anal sex with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go out to you as the defense attorney, Peter Odom. What`s the point of showing an enlarged photo of Travis Alexander`s erect penis, putting it up all day in the courtroom? What`s the point?

P. ODOM: Well, they`re trying to do two things, I believe, Nancy. First of all, they are trying to make her look like a victim. They`re trying to make him look like a sexual pervert, and they`re trying to desensitize the victim to this kind of testimony. Remember, this is all building towards something.

GRACE: What?

P. ODOM: This is all building toward an ultimate climax.

GRACE: I really don`t appreciate the pun even if it`s unintended. But Peter--

P. ODOM: I intended no pun -- I intended no pun.

GRACE: (inaudible) by his -- by his penis, by the penis photo, I mean Lord knows she`s seen it plenty of times and up close. So I don`t understand. To me, as a juror, I would question the defense motives. And, another thing, Peter, and this is not about you. What I`m saying is in general. If I were on that jury listening, I would wonder why the defense is bringing in every single detail about their sex life and painting him out to be the bad guy, and she`s right there in it. She never says no. She never says stop, never, ever. In fact, she drives thousands of miles to be with him.


P. ODOM: That`s what I mean when I say they`re desensitizing the victim and they are making her look like someone who was under his sexual control. That dehumanizes him while humanizing her. And they have to do that, Nancy. I think it`s what they have to do.

GRACE: OK. Janine Driver, president of the Body Language Institute and author of "You Can`t Lie to Me." She`s joining us tonight out of Houston, Texas. Janine, thank you for being with us. I`d like you to please analyze -- I know my own anecdotal interpretation of her body language, but you`re the expert. I would like to hear your analysis.

JANINE DRIVER, PRESIDENT, BODY LANGUAGE INST.: You know, Nancy, you hit the nail on the head when you said she is like a robot or a mannequin, and this is going to hurt her in the long run, this no affect.

Think about it, a jury, what they do is they mirror the behavior of the person who is on the stand. Because we don`t see sadness, the eyebrows aren`t pulled together, the lip isn`t coming out, and we don`t see fear when she is talking about when she might be fearful, we see no emotions. What does this mean? They are going to have no emotions in the jury.

This is a blessing for us, for the prosecutor. Why? Because now we`re thinking, wait a minute, maybe this is a heartless person that could commit this crime.

Listen, she is looking down quite a bit, we see her looking down nonstop. Here is the problem. We do look down when we`re emotional, Nancy. However, we should see her lip buckle when she looks down. We should see her eyes furrow, her brows. We don`t see it. This is someone who is void of emotion, and it is going to hurt her in the long run.

GRACE: You know, with me, Janine Driver, she`s taking your calls. She is the authority, president of the Body Language Institute, author of "You Can`t Lie to Me." Back to Janine Driver.

Janine, I still recall the moment when I came down off the witness stand in my fiance`s murder trial, and I saw his bloody shirt that he had been wearing that morning when I last saw him. I will never forget it. The reason I bring that up is because that moment that I saw that is just ingrained in my memory. But she turned to that jury as cold as a cucumber and said, I killed Travis Alexander. And looked right back at her lawyer. I mean, she cried when she saw a picture of a pet dog, but when she is talking about stabbing this man, and this young man, just starting his life, nine times in the back. And, think about it, again, I said this earlier, I don`t let my mind go there when I`m analyzing evidence, but just think of stabbing him in the back over and over with a butcher knife, nine times in the back. Finally, after 29 stab wounds, shooting him in the head, and she did not shed a tear. Not a tear.

DRIVER: Nancy, Nancy, you sharing your story about your fiance and how you even get animated and emotional, it makes me emotional. I don`t even know him. Right? I didn`t know him. I`m emotional. Why? Because when you`re sharing your story, it`s genuine, the tone, the pitch, and the facial expressions are all there. It`s congruent. That`s what we look for with body language is congruency.

Remember with Casey Anthony, when the mother was on the stand, right? What happened? When she breaks down and cries, your heart was breaking for her. My heart. Cindy Anthony, when she was on the stand crying, we were feeling the grief of the loss of a grandchild of a grandmother.

Here we feel no emotions. We have mirror neurons. When someone yawns, someone else yawns. The jury is going to feel nothing for Jodi Arias.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Yvette, California. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I love your show. Thank you for being the voice for the victims who can`t speak for themselves. I hope you have time for a couple of comments for me. Right now, I`m so filled with so many different emotions. I try not to call myself a victim. I`m a survivor. But her gestures on the stand are so disingenuous, because I have been abused, sexually abused, physically abused, emotionally abused, every kind of abuse that you can imagine, from the age of 4 from a stepfather that got (ph) to be a triple murderer, was out of jail. The judicial system I`m a little leery of. I`m so afraid that these jurors are going to believe her.

But when I think of my abuse, my doctors have cried because they can`t even imagine the things that I`ve gone through. And I cannot imagine being on that stand. And I`m sitting now thinking about my story, because I wrote (ph) it in my head, and I look out like it is a video in front of me and I --

GRACE: You know what, Yvette? You are so brave so call in and describe only a little bit of what you`ve been through. And as you are seeing Arias on the stand, you know, to Bonnie Druker, I want to follow up on what Yvette in California is saying. Has there been any emotion from Arias whatsoever, other than when she has seen some photos of Travis and photos of a dog? But during her testimony, I see nothing.

DRUKER: No. I mean, she`s like a stoic, demure, calm person. The attorneys ask her questions. She looks at them. And then she turns to the jury and looks at them. Very, very calm. Very, very monotone. And I think the jury is going to get sick of listening to her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Christopher Cabacoy (ph), 30, Virginia Beach, Virginia. Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal, Combat Action Badge. Parents Carmelita and Dennis, brother Paolo. Widow Tammy. Son Aidan. Christopher Cabacoy. American hero.

Straight out to the lines. To Susan, California. Hi, Susan. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call. I am also a long, long-standing survivor. Now been out of the marriage for about seven years. (inaudible), could have ended up in prison or a mental hospital. Didn`t.

My question, though, to anyone that has expertise knowledge about body language is this. As an abused survivor, I learned over the years, through my abuser, to become stoic, because every movement, every breath, everything about me was challenged. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? Why are you thinking this? Why are you thinking that?

GRACE: OK. So you want to ask how that jibes with what you see on the stand. Janine Driver, president of Body Language Institute, author of "You Can`t Lie to Me," Janine, has Arias been conditioned -- I hear what Susan in California is saying.

DRIVER: But listen, Nancy. One of my best friends is a battered woman survivor. Her husband tried to kill her and their young child. The baby was an infant, 3 months old. And you do learn to fake it, because you put the wrong outfit on the baby, you`re going to get hit by your husband that day.

But here`s the deal. That`s why you bring in an expert like me, Nancy, because I`m looking for microexpressions. You can fake it as the big dramatic crying and sobbing, but I`m looking for microexpression. It happens in a 15th of a second, Nancy, a fifteenth of a second. There are seven universal emotions. It doesn`t matter who you are, a man, a woman, 7, 77, born in Chicago or Zimbabwe. Happiness, sadness, fear, surprise, anger, contempt, disgust. We see none of it here. None of it. We don`t see fear. We don`t see sadness. Not even a 15th of a second. And that is what the jury`s going to get bored with. They are going to say she`s boring, this is a woman that could have done it, there`s no affect.

GRACE: Eleanor Odom, is her testimony helping or hurting her?

E. ODOM: I think it`s hurting her right now, Nancy. And just as we heard earlier, the jury is just now sitting back in their chairs, they`re not paying any attention.

GRACE: Congratulations tonight to parents Stephanie and Tony. They are now welcoming tiny crime fighter baby boy Lenox -- oh, look at that. Don`t drop me, I know Nancy Grace. Dr. Drew`s up next, everybody. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END
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« Reply #156 on: February 07, 2013, 05:09:13 PM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/06/ddhln.01.html
DR. DREW

Jodi`s Sex Claims

Aired February 6, 2013 - 21:00:00   ET


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, we are discussing Jodi Arias` testimony, day three.

JODI ARIAS, ALLEGED MURDERER: He had been requesting photos, naked pictures.

PINSKY: Graphic details and intimate confessions.

ARIAS: Kind of felt like a used piece of toilet paper. I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute.

PINSKY: What does this have to do with murder?

And he`s back. A pathologist tells us about the brutality of the slaying and the instruments of death.

Also, my jury`s reaction to the problematic sensational photos revealed in open court.

And two exclusive interviews with people who knew Jodi and Travis.

Let us get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Welcome to the program.

With me this week my co-host, psychologist Wendy Walsh.

WENDY WALSH, CO-HOST: Good evening.

PINSKY: And we are talking about sex tonight in graphic terms. That`s what went down in court. Beware. You are forewarned.

Here we go.

Joining us: attorney Darren Kavinoky.

I also have Casey Jordan, criminologist and consultant on Discovery ID`s "Wives with Knives." A very appropriate show for Casey to have been a part of given the material we`re coming into tonight.

Jodi made stunning claims today about Travis` sexual behaviors and appetite, in front -- all of this in front of his mom, his family, and a jury that is predominantly male, and the TV cameras.

And a reminder, we are getting into this. So this is not for everyone tonight. Hang on tight.

WALSH: Not for children. That`s for sure.

PINSKY: No, that`s for sure.

Let us first go out to "In Session" correspondent Beth Karas.

OK, Beth. What was all this about? Why all the sex talk? And what was it building to?

BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION" CORRESPONDENT: Oh, you know, Dr. Drew, I`ve been around a long time, and I`ve seen it all. But even the most seasoned of us, myself included, were a little shocked at today`s testimony. And it wasn`t just the words that were spoken. It was what was displayed.

Remember, not too long ago, a few days ago, a computer forensic guy said that he had taken a couple of photos off of Jodi Arias` hard drive and they were male genitals, actually an erection very close up. Well, these photos were identified today. They were sent to Jodi by Travis Alexander 15 days before he baptized her. And they were displayed in the courtroom.

And there on a huge screen in front of the jury, this huge erection on a monitor to the left, on a monitor to the right. Anywhere you looked, it was just -- it was -- that`s all you saw.

And the jurors were like, oh, God. They were looking up. They were looking down. They were looking everywhere. Once they saw it, they didn`t need to look at it again for a long time.

PINSKY: And, Beth -- and, Beth, if I understand, this was even on the heels of testimony about anal sex and real specific, intimate details --

KARAS: Yes.

PINSKY: There`s some tape. We`re going to look at this right now, Beth. Hold on one second.

KARAS: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: We were in my bedroom. We were not on the bed, but we were standing next to it. And we were kissing.

And I was in my church clothes. And then he spun me around. He bent me over the bed. I was face down. I had restraint (ph) inside.

He lifted up my skirt. And -- and he pulled down my underwear. I could feel an erection. He began to have anal sex with me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he entered you, you said you didn`t stop him. Did you say anything? Did you tell him no?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it pleasurable for you physically?

ARIAS: At that time, it was painful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Darren Kavinoky, here`s the deal, my friend. I want to vomit. I want to vomit not because I`m prudish or have difficulty talking about these things. I want to vomit because poor Travis` family is sitting there being dragged through all this.

What in the world does the defense think they`re doing with this?

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Well, they have to do things to set her up as a victim. They have to do things to suggest Travis led a double life, that he had a lot of secrets, that he wasn`t just all nice guy, because according to everybody that knew him he was a great guy.

So they need to do some things to at least plant the seed that what you see with Travis isn`t all what you get. And, of course, ultimately, what this has to build to is somehow justifying the ultimate act, which is Travis` death.

And so, if we can`t lay a foundation where she`s constantly being victimized, where she`s fearful that she`s going to be attacked again, where it`s going to be one brutal thing after another, then you just don`t get there. So, that`s ultimately why all of this matters.

PINSKY: All right. I --

WALSH: I`ve got to say something here. You say you feel like vomiting. But remember, this kind of sexually provocative talk sometimes arouses men. There are 11 men on that jury, all right?

PINSKY: Hold on.

WALSH: So there may have been a sympathy thing to talk about this.

PINSKY: I`m not ready to pull the jury into this cesspool. I`ve got on the line our buddy Abe Abdelhadi, or Abdelhadi, I beg your pardon, who had dated Jodi just weeks after she was "baptized" by Travis.

Abe, thank you for joining us again. We`ve learned a lot about that baptism.

I want you to listen to this, Abe. Are you there with me?

ABE ABDELHADI, DATED JODI (via telephone): Yes.

PINSKY: OK. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many dates did you have with Mr. Abdelhadi?

ARIAS: Just one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Travis angry about your date with Mr. Abdelhadi? Was his distaste for your date with Mr. Abdelhadi, was it different than that with John Dixon?

ARIAS: From the tone of his voice, he seemed upset.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Abe, I want you to get a reaction. Give us your reaction to this testimony.

ABDELHADI: OK. Well, first of all, what was amazing is she told him at all at that time. Approximately, a year later, we`d had several conversations, maybe six or seven between -- we stopped going out. In an 18-month period, 10, 15 conversations.

At this point, about a year later, she had given me a call out of the blue. A couple of months I hadn`t spoken to her. And then she told me that Travis was upset with me.

PINSKY: A year later?

ABDELHADI: Yes.

WALSH: Upset with you or upset with her?

PINSKY: Upset with him.

ABDELHADI: Upset with me. So I said why? She said, well, he knows about us. And I asked her, what us? She goes, well, we went out.

I said, when you guys were broken up? I mean, you can go out with the National Guard. It`s your business when you`re broken up. Why am I getting dragged into this? This is not my affair.

She said, well, I wanted to be honest and forthcoming. And I interrupted her and I got upset. I was like, no, you wanted to manipulate him. And you told me already that he had a problem committing to you. The reason he has a problem committing to you is because you`re pulling this crap on a regular basis. He`s going to have trust issues with you. Are you --

PINSKY: Abe, I`m going to interrupt you because it`s interesting. You got hot with her. You got angry, right?

ABDELHADI: I`m getting angry now thinking about it. I watched this and I was angry. I had no idea she had even told him at the time we had gone out. It was not an issue.

PINSKY: So for you --

(CROSSTALK)

KAVINOKY: As a rebuttal witness on this stuff.

PINSKY: Yes, maybe after they see this, he`ll be called back up again.

WALSH: This is a classic thing that girls do, Drew. They love to make them jealous about another guy --

PINSKY: Listen, if I didn`t know better, I would say Wendy --

ABDELHADI: I don`t go out -- hang on one second. I don`t go out with girls like that. That`s called drama.

WALSH: But you did. I`ll just say that.

PINSKY: You found your way to this one, Ab. I`ll give Wendy that. It sounds like she`s about to defend Jodi.

But I want to get at this one issue with you. She is presenting herself -- I keep hearing she`d get Academy Award for what she`s doing. She`s presenting herself as sort of this passive victim that`s violated repeatedly by this guy. You had a very different experience with her. Tell us what that was.

ABDELHADI: Well, first of all, let`s break down what she`s saying now and then I`m going to go back and address your question. I`ll be very, very brief.

First of all, I`m looking through this abuse. I watched this testimony today. What I heard was normal couples stuff. I`m waiting for the dungeons and whips. I`m waiting for all this stuff --

WALSH: Normal couple stuff.

(CROSSTALK)

ABDELHADI: A compound and Travis was David Koresh was visiting her in the middle of the night like she`s a 12-year-old.

So, I don`t understand any of this.

Now, back to your original point now, what really angers me is she is not some little prissy miss. I mean, she was -- we had one date. We fooled around. It was in a parking lot. We were against her car. She was very assertive sexually confident.

By the way, this whole battered woman nonsense, in our business, in legal (INAUDIBLE), we`re a small fiefdom, OK? And people that have a lot of success, go to the conventions and make a half a million or million a year, make a lot of money and she had the temerity to go up to every one of these guys. By their peers and people they work with. They`re not out trolling for people.

PINSKY: Abe, I`m going to interrupt you. Your connection is really rocky and I`m not getting all of what you`re saying. So I`m going to see if we can improve --

WALSH: I think what he`s saying is basically --

PINSKY: She was sexually aggressive.

WALSH: She was a slut, all right, is what she`s saying. But I don`t like to hear the slut shaming. You know that, Dr. Drew.

PINKSY: My understanding -- hold on, everybody. Everybody hold on. Host here.

My understanding is women felt a little more sympathetic towards her today. I want to get into that because I don`t think the men did. You`re hearing Abe certainly didn`t.

Next, I`m going to speak -- Abe, hang on, I`ll be with you in a sec. I`m going to speak next to a man who knew Jodi and says he actually worked with her and lent her money to go on the trip that ended in her killing Travis. I wonder if she paid him back.

And later, how could a petite woman so savagely kill a man so much larger than herself, even if it is self-defense? Dr. Bill Lloyd is here with his theory. There he is right now. You`re going to hear that later.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: It was a little confusing. The -- the sex. It just seemed like he sort of had the Bill Clinton version where his -- over here, it seemed like oral and anal sex were also sex to me. I felt a little bit used.

He gets a hotel room and I show up. We hang out. We have sex.

He`s not really there presently. Like he`s not mentally present. I`m getting a lot of attention but only while we`re engaging in sexual activity. And then we check out and he takes off. I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Interesting. I am not surprised. But I am disturbed and sick and tired of people making technicalities out of sex acts. It`s all sex. Let`s face it.

WALSH: Technical virgins out there I`m always suspect of.

PINSKY: It`s really just people trying not to feel guilty about being sexual when in fact they`re -- if this were 30 years ago -- by the way, that comes after you touch home base, the stuff that she was getting into. That was another stunning flip --

WALSH: It`s the wrong order of events.

PINSKY: Then you go back -- I`m not even going to say. Straight from Jodi Arias` mouth. This was about her sexual relationship with Travis Alexander. His poor family had to hear all this all day long.

And a warning for the viewers: this content may -- is in fact not appropriate for young people.

WALSH: Put your kids to bed now.

PINSKY: Please.

I am back with my co-host, psychologist Wendy Walsh.

Joining me, Paul Stern, who I`d said worked with her. I was wrong about that. He got know Jodi in 2008 before she killed Travis.

I guess, Paul, she worked at the Ventana Inn up in Big Sur and you were a customer there. She was a bartender, is that correct?

PAUL STERN, KNEW JODI ARIAS (via telephone): I own a house there. So, she frequented a bar and grill and restaurant every night to get on the computer.

PINSKY: So, she was not -- well, hold on a second. So, she was not an employee of this place. You guys both just went to this inn, this restaurant?

STERN: Yes. She was an employee of Ventana but I wasn`t. I just lived there.

PINSKY: I see. And you actually loaned her the money that ended up on the trip where she actually killed Travis?

STERN: Well, the day before she left, she was pretty frantic that she had to go back and see Travis, and she talked about how he was seeing other people and she asked to borrow money and I gave her money.

PINSKY: Paul, when you say she was frantic, describe how you -- who you thought she was and what you mean by frantic.

STERN: Well, I spent a lot of hours with Jodi. She would sit right next to me.

And you know more about Jodi by what she doesn`t say. She never talked about her family, her friends, her boyfriends, her hobbies. And she never talked about her feelings or emotions.

WALSH: What did she talk about?

STERN: But she was on the computer constantly and she kept a journal. She would show me pictures on the computer. There had to be thousands of them. I only looked at a few.

But I really wasn`t interested in time that much in her pictures.

PINSKY: In spite of her talking about her obsessions -- by the way, did she pay you back?

STERN: She did pay me back.

PINSKY: OK. And despite her talking about the obsessions about the boyfriend, was she sexually provocative with you?

STERN: No. No. I have a girlfriend that I`m still with at that time. And I`m not available. And I think she sensed that.

PINSKY: OK, so fair enough.

STERN: She would come and sit next to me whenever she was in there.

PINSKY: OK. Casey --

STERN: And --

PINSKY: What, Paul? Finish that up.

STERN: When you engage in conversation with Jodi and look into her eyes, it`s like looking in a two-way mirror. But Jodi`s looking at the reflective part of the mirror. And her eye beams never really meet your eyes.

And she`s very coy, enigmatic, and very articulate. And she`s also the same way about how she dresses, postures herself, and what she does without saying any words.

PINSKY: OK, Paul, I`m going to put you on hold for a second.

Casey, I see you shaking your head. What are your thoughts on this?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, a few things. First of all, it`s great to hear from Paul Stern the fact that she had to borrow the money because she was obsessed about getting to Travis Alexander because she was in the middle of a terrible break-up and this was simply not acceptable to her. So his description of her obsession is really on cue with what we know happened thereafter.

But that blank look in her eyes is what we very often call in sociology and criminology Cooley`s looking-glass self. It`s part of her chameleon and her actress affect. She`s constantly gauging or scanning whoever she`s talking to.

And without even thinking about it, she mirrors back. We see her do it all the time in court. We see her do it with her defense attorney, even looking like her all the time.

But she wants to know what will please people. This is a behavior she probably learned in her childhood. The bottom line is, he noticed it even though he wasn`t involved with her.

WALSH: And Dr. Drew, isn`t that a survival instinct for many people who have survived child abuse?

PINSKY: That`s right. It makes sense in the context, this kind of abuse.

But, Casey, what`s it called? What`s the syndrome called? Cooley`s looking glass?

JORDAN: We call it the Cooley`s looking-glass self. It means we are reflective and reactive. We are constantly modifying and interacting with everyone we communicate with, but some people take it to a much higher level to where they don`t even know who they are or what they --

PINSKY: That -- Casey, all right, Casey, I`ve got to go to a break. But I want you to take me from that syndrome to how we get somebody who is a murderer in your mind.

Thank you, Paul Stern. Very enlightening.

Next, we`re going to hear from a woman who lived with Travis Alexander. She was in court today. There she is. And she has a lot to say about what Jodi did today.

Thank you for joining us.

And later on, my jurors from the courtroom, not the actual jury but some of the people you see in the gallery there, will tell us how they reacted to some of this testimony and having to sit in a room with these sexually charged photographs and the poor family`s having to sit through that.

That`s all next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: Travis was a friend to everybody, and even when things were bad between us he was always -- he would give his last -- he would give his last dollar, his last whatever. He was selling me his BMW.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That was Jodi Arias telling police that Travis was a friend to everyone, a great guy. Hmm.

I`m back with my co-host Wendy Walsh.

And again, a warning to everyone, this is very adult topics and very frank language tonight.

I`m joined now by one of Travis` friends, Elisha Schabel.

And, Elisha, I appreciate you being here so much.

WALSH: Hi, Elisha.

PINSKY: And I know this must be really tough to sit through all this.

ELISHA SCHABEL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Hi.

PINSKY: Let me just start with that. How do you yourself react emotionally to what you`re having to sit through?

SCHABEL: Well, it is actually very emotional for me. And I apologize if I get emotional. It`s been very difficult actually to come on any show. I`ve been approached by several different shows.

And for the first couple of weeks, it`s been very difficult to talk about because I was so close to Travis and, you know, having to hear her in court today go on and on, it`s very difficult to hear.

PINSKY: What -- can you imagine -- I guess let me ask this. What is she like? And what do you experience when you watch her testimony?

SCHABEL: You know, she`s just -- no emotion, whatsoever. It seems inappropriate emotions that she gives. And you know, if I were in her shoes and if I had committed such, you know, a heinous act, for example, I would feel some sort of remorse. And she doesn`t show any signs of remorse.

Even if it was in self-defense, which by the way it wasn`t, I would feel for the rest of my life so remorseful and so sad for what I have done. You know, taken another person`s life. And that`s what`s really difficult to see.

PINSKY: And, Elisha, you strike me as a very emotionally connected, well- put together person, who talking about some difficult material, trying to hold it together.

I just want people who are watching compare Elisha to Jodi, who`s next to me in the footage we`re look at right now. See how distinctly different -- Elisha`s a very real and open and talking, it all makes sense --

(CROSSTALK)

WALSH: Have you met her outside of the courtroom? Is she a different person outside of the courtroom?

SCHABEL: You know, I haven`t personally seen her outside of the courtroom. I see her, you know, when court ends and she`s talking with her attorneys. And you know, we`ve made eye contact. And --

WALSH: Ooh, what`s that like?

SCHABEL: It`s kind of disturbing, actually.

PINSKY: Yes. And today -- I`m going to ask you a really tough question. But this is -- let me put it this way. If I were a friend of Travis` and had to sit through the defense throwing a picture up on the wall of my friend`s genitalia for an extended period of time, I would be furious with the defense.

How did you react?

SCHABEL: Well, I actually wasn`t in court for that. And thank goodness, because I don`t want to have to see that, to be honest. So, I`m glad I was late to court today.

PINSKY: But his family did, Elisha. His family did.

SCHABEL: I know.

PINSKY: And when I think about that, it just sort of adds more misery to this whole thing, doesn`t it?

SCHABEL: You know, I was watching from home when that happened. And, you know, that would be horrible. I have four younger brothers and to have to see that. I mean, I don`t want to have to see my brothers` genitalia. I mean, they --

WALSH: And Dr. Drew introduced you as someone who had -- Dr. Drew introduced you as someone who had lived with Travis. But you were roommates, right? He`s not an ex-boyfriend?

SCHABEL: Well, Travis took me in when I was in transition in my life back in about April, May of 2005. And I needed a place to stay. He said stay with me, I have a huge house.

And, you know, so I crashed there for a couple of days. And those couple of days turned into about 30 days, until I could find a more permanent place. And, you know --

PINSKY: Elisha, I`m sorry. I have to interrupt because I have to go to break. And I`m going to have you stay with me because I want to hear more about how you experienced him, how different he was for you as compared to what`s being portrayed in court.

Also, a reminder that I have my -- what I call my jurors coming up reacting to all this sexually graphic testimony today. What was that like in the galley? There`s -- the poor family, there they are again.

WALSH: Terrible.

PINSKY: Plus, we`re going to look at a crime scene and wander and look. There it is. Does this look like the work of a woman defending herself? Pathologist and surgeon, Dr. Bill Lloyd, is going to break it down for us.

Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recognize those?

JODI ARIAS, DESCRIBING SEXUAL TEXT FROM TRAVIS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are those pictures of?

ARIAS: Those are pictures of Travis` erection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you said this came to you via phone message. Is this something that you had solicited from him?

ARIAS: Not directly. I didn`t expect a photograph, but we were flirting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were what?

ARIAS: Flirting. It went on for hours, actually. Just back and forth just trying to be witty and top each other`s last comments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you reciprocate with photos?

ARIAS: No. Not that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did he react to your refusal to send him a picture?

ARIAS: He -- he felt that it should be fair.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: I`m back with my co-host, Wendy Walsh. We are talking about some quite graphic sexual testimony in the Arias murder trial today. This may be offensive to some. Beware. We were just looking at Jodi, who began to cry, I think --

WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: OK. So, do you think she was crying or -do you think --

PINSKY: No.

WALSH: -- she was fake crying? Oh, you think it --

PINSKY: I was trying to decide if she was crying. I couldn`t even be sure that she was. Casey, does that sort of fit with the -- what was the syndrome you called? The mirror syndrome?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Yes. The looking glass self is just really where you`re looking for cues to whoever is asking you questions. And in Jodi`s case, you have an extreme sense that she`s always trying to please and figure out exactly the correct answer to what they want to hear or what is the best thing, not the honest thing.

And everyone agrees that she`s a supreme actress. And the interesting thing here is that I think it worked with Travis for a while. I mean, she converted to Mormonism. She had two long-term relationships with men. She was not a born again virgin. I mean, she was trying to adhere to the Mormon faith about no sex before marriage, but really, it was about pleasing Travis.

PINSKY: Right. That`s why she wouldn`t say no. She maintained this bizarre technicality --

WALSH: She didn`t own her own no. She didn`t own that word.

PINSKY: That`s right. Abe, does any of this surprise you?

VOICE OF ABE ABDELHADI, DATED JODI ARIAS: No. Actually, it doesn`t. And earlier, before my phone was breaking up, I was -- what I was working to say is that she was an assertive person, and she would make inroads to very prominent, successful, accomplished people. She`d get her picture taken with them and she was very charming.

She had no problem exerting that side of herself. I mean, she wasn`t out dancing on tables, but she was a very confident person. And the brief time that we had together, she wasn`t shy. She wasn`t, you know, worried about oncoming cars or anything like that.

So, this little Quaker Oats thing that she`s doing with the Mother Theresa get-ups and the hair and the braids and the plastic glasses, I`m like, give me a break. I mean, this woman is Kaiser Soze with boobs, let`s be honest.

WALSH: Whoa!

ABDELHADI: And everyone is going off on this abuse. I`m waiting for the abuse. So far, I`ve seen nothing that doesn`t happen in a normal relationship. We had a fight.

WALSH: Well, I wouldn`t call this a normal relationship. This is the second time you`ve said this. I wouldn`t call this a normal relationship.

ABDELHADI: Well, up until she killed him, up until the punchline, and you know --

PINSKY: Abe and --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: And Abe, that is my point is that all of this makes sense, her history of abuse and she has this looking glass eyes and all that stuff. It doesn`t translate to murderer.

WALSH: That`s the piece.

ABDELHADI: It doesn`t.

PINSKY: And Elisha, one of the most troubling pieces of story that was discussed today in court was the story about anal sex after baptism. What did you do with that?

ELISHA SCHNABEL, CALLS TRAVIS GENEROUS, KIND, FLIRTATIOUS: Well, having been a missionary for the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, also known as the Mormons, I found that very disturbing, actually, because, you know -- and obviously, knowing Travis very well, there`s no way he would have done that.

WALSH: Do you think it`s outright lying?

SCHNABEL: Like you said, you know, say often, Dr. Drew, you know, my B.S. monitor was just, you know, over the top on that one. I`m sorry. I just - - it didn`t happen.

PINSKY: OK. I think that`s a reasonable -- we`ve all been wondering, what`s lie and what`s -- you know, what`s Memorex (ph), what`s lie, and what`s people trying to build a case?

DARREN KAVINOKY, @DARREN KAVINOKY: But you know what, it`s interesting because if the jury believes that those things are true and that Travis, indeed, as is now being pointed out, that he led this double life, I mean, that`s what all of this material goes towards. If they believe that and if they feel like all of this activity somehow humanizes Jodi, it may also play into the other game that`s afoot here, which is trying to keep her alive.

PINSKY: I get that.

(CROSSTALK)

ABDELHADI: Humanizing lizzie borden. What are you talking about?

PINSKY: But Hold on, Abe. Abe, hold on. Abe, buddy, hold on a second. And by the way, I`ve got to say, I think they had accomplished that in day one. Now, I think this is going over to the other side where people -- she`s abusing me now. I`ve got Debbie who wants to ask Abe something. Debbie, go ahead.

DEBBIE: Hi. I was wondering, was Jodi sexually aggressive? And, was she into taking pictures of body parts? Because she kept the photos of Travis. No one seemed to mention or make note that she kept those photos. And I think that she is the one who initiated the photos.

PINSKY: All right. Debbie, hold on. Abe, What do you say? I`m running out of time. Go ahead.

ABDELHADI: That would have been some first date. I have no experience with that.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: But does it fit with how you experienced her?

ABDELHADI: Well, she was confident. I mean, she didn`t ask to take my pictures or anything. But yes, she wasn`t some timid wallflower.

PINSKY: OK.

WALSH: Now, I know that. But Abe, women are not as visually attuned as men, and generally, when these photographs come, they come as a bid from the man to try to get the woman to send a naked picture of herself. So, that`s --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I`m going to evaluate in a couple minutes what the men and the women are experiencing in the jury box and here with you, what I`m experiencing.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: I want to say thank you to Elisha. Elisha Schnabel, thank you for joining us after such an emotional day. I can`t thank you enough. It`s a perspective. It feels honest and genuine, and it stands out in bold relief against what else we`re hearing about your friend. So, thank you for joining me.

I also want to thank Abe Abdelhadi. You`re always a great guest, and I appreciate you being here. And I`ve got next, Dr. Bill Lloyd. He`s been following the trial. What does he think about how Jodi, the small, petite woman, actually did the deed? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOICE OF JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR IN JODI ARIAS MURDER TRIAL: Do you think that it is appropriate to take a knife and slash somebody`s throat?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection.

MARTINEZ: When she began stabbing him, no one can debate the fact that Mr. Alexander, if he were alive, to be asked, did you really want her to be in your house when she began stabbing you? I am sure he would have said no, i do not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That was prosecutor Juan Martinez talking in court about the slaying of Travis Alexander. I`m back with my co-host, psychologist, Wendy Walsh. Again, a reminder, we are talking about some graphic sexual material.

WALSH: Yes.

PINSKY: It`s all reflecting what was shown and spoken about in court today. Joining me now, board-certified surgeon and pathologist Dr. Bill Lloyd. All right, Dr. Lloyd, I really do appreciate you bringing us here - - bringing us into that room --

WALSH: Break it down for us.

PINSKY: Yes. Break it down for us. There`s physical evidence or Jodi`s testimony. How do you think she did what she did?

WALSH: People are saying she`s too small.

DR. BILL LLOYD, PERFORMED OVER 500 AUTOPSIES: It`s an important question. Many people still have doubts. How can this little pixie take down this larger man? You don`t have to have a Ph.D. to understand the physics of murder. Jodi had the element of surprise. She also had the emotional leverage.

Dude`s in the shower after hot sex. He`s not worried about a thing. Life is good. But she`s got the knife. And it happens to be a very sharp knife. And one last element, Drew, she had good luck. She was able to put the tip of this knife in between the ribs on the first try. All she had to do was penetrate the skin.

PINSKY: Dr. Lloyd, is that the probable type of knife that she used?

LLOYD: It certainly is. It may have been an inch or two shorter, but it had to be deep enough not simply to enter the chest but to go all the way across to sever the vena cava as we discussed. The first moments after that knife entered, Travis was losing up to 30 quarts of blood per minute. An enormous blood loss.

And later, later as we know, she severed his neck and severed his throat and cut the jugular vein as well. But that was icing on the cake. He had already collapsed. And even if she had done, not one other thing, he was certain to have died.

PINSKY: And now -- again, the full -- my viewers haven`t seen the picture. I wish I could show it because it speaks so many volumes. But this jawline to jawline cut where his -- there`s a gaping wound. You can almost see his cervical spine through the front part of his neck. Nearly cut his head off.

WALSH: This is serious.

PINSKY: Yes. How much force would have had to have been applied for that?

LLOYD: He was unconscious. So, she was merely cutting meat. And again, although, substantial bleeding comes from that as well, he was already on the downhill slope from that stab wound to the chest.

PINSKY: Casey, I want to go to you. I see you shaking your head in vigorous agreement. I don`t deal with criminals. So, to me this is like - - I can`t even get my head around it. Help people at home understand how we go from someone who has a history of abuse, who`s got this obsession and love addiction and whatever and is obsessing about this guy to this violent murder where we see her carrying out acts like this.

JORDAN: Well, I don`t see the connection. I don`t think the jury will, either. So far, we have not heard enough in court to really substantiate any level of abuse that would even rise to the occasion that we have seen in truly abused situations where somebody is successful in using it with self-defense.

But the savagery that is described is a level of anger that I think is going to leave the jury wondering, you know, did they have sex and Travis told her I`m going on a cruise with another woman in a week and this really is the last time I want to see you? She came there prepared, with a gun, with a knife, apparently.

And the moment she was waiting for, as we pointed out, in the shower, I think everyone at home sees the parallels to the movie, and I say this without irony, "psycho." The look on his face, the blood spatter, everything, I think she had a movie reel going in her mind the entire time waiting for the moment where he finally said, I don`t want anything to do with you, and that`s what made her unhinged.

WALSH: I think it`s more like "Fatal Attraction."

PINSKY: Right. Tai in Hawaii, do you want to ring in here on this?

TAI, HAWAII: Yes. I was totally 100 percent pro-Travis today until I heard her explain about the process of baptism and she did that with 100 percent accuracy and as to that whole process happened. So, I truly do believe that Travis took her home, and after he baptized her, then had (ph) anal sex with her like that`s just -- the defense got me today.

PINSKY: Well, Casey -- but again, yes, it`s not something savory, but I still don`t go to savage murder from there. Should i?

WALSH: But there will be some sympathy from --

PINSKY: You are sympathetic. You told me this. You were feeling sympathy for her today.

WALSH: Well, sympathy, I mean, again, I don`t think that she should get off. I mean, she definitely murdered this person, but now, I can start to put the puzzle pieces together and figure out why.

PINSKY: Casey, answer that.

JORDAN: I`m sorry. She`s 27 years old. She has a lot of sexual experience. The men she`s dated say that she was aggressive. And to me, the most important line in today`s testimony is when her attorney said, when he allegedly, you know, anally raped you, did you say no? And she said no. I didn`t. So, I didn`t think that that supported the idea that she felt abused.

And i don`t mean to be coy, but she said she felt used like a prostitute. And a lot of women at her stage, 27 years old, having dated a lot of men, know that feeling. And the answer is, you don`t call him back and you don`t see him again. And she hasn`t described a level of abuse that would make her keep coming back for more.

She wanted to get married. She wanted to be that woman he married and had a family with. And when he said no, she stopped at that exact moment--

PINSKY: It`s starting to make sense of all this. Thank you, Casey Jordan. Thank you, Darren Kavinoky, Dr. Bill Lloyd. Darren, a reminder, is the host of investigation Discovery`s "Deadly Sins."

Next up, my jurors are back. How are intimate details of Jodi`s sex life playing in the courtroom? Are men, the real jury, the men or women, the older, the younger, who`s most interested --

WALSH: I`m curious to know.

PINSKY: -- who`s sympathetic, who`s falling asleep, we`re going to get in all that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: It is time for "Dr. Drew`s Jury." I am back with my co-host this week, psychologist, Wendy Walsh. And I want to read a Twitter to you guys. It`s from Marie Therese @Peoni 459. "I really wish @Dr. Drew would get some male courtroom spectators to be on his jury."

Well, Marie Therese, your wish is my command. Here`s my jury. They`re joining us, Katie Wick and Jon Weiss. They were in the courtroom witnessing all the graphic testimony, which again, as I keep warning our viewers, may be offensive to some.

Katie, I`m going to go to you first since you`re our veteran here. Do you think the female jurors found her more sympathetic today?

KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": i believe so, because I was really observing the jury today. I was really watching them. And the female jurors, there`s three female jurors that continuously take notes, copious notes. But I noticed -- I didn`t notice any of the male jurors taking notes today. They were yawning. Some were looking at their nails.

They were just not connected today. And then, I saw a lot of sighs coming from them, especially when the defense attorney towards the end of the day -- I don`t know if they were just getting tired. The defense attorney said at one point, oh, wait, let me back up, and I saw -- I probably saw them -- it seemed like they were all together.

They just kind of went, ah, like come on, let`s get out of here. So, I think the females are paying more attention than the males right now.

PINSKY: So, I`m going to go out to John then. John, what is that? And by the way, as I understand, there are two sort of camps of men on the jury. There are some young 20 -- a couple of 20-year-old guys and most guys sort of over 50 on the jury. A, is that correct? And B, why do you think what Katie is reporting happened?

JON WEISS, DR. DREW "JUROR": Well, you know, from a perspective as a father and -- I have a daughter 15 years old. When I was watching the men, depending on their age, they`d be looking at the testimony a little bit differently. You know, definitely I concur, I think definitely I`ve seen three of the female jurors taking notes all the time during the whole time.

And I didn`t see any male jurors taking any notes at all. So, I mean, I think the male counterparts that, you know, that are in there, I think they`re definitely going to look at it completely differently if they have kids, especially daughters, you know, somewhat the age of Jodi.

PINSKY: Meaning, what, that they`d be sympathetic to her or -- I don`t know what you mean.

WEISS: Yes. Well, for me, as a father, you know, my daughter`s 15, you know, and I used to hang out and I used to associate with people, guys, that were very aggressive with women and tried to do that thing with women and be done with it. You know, that`s not something I did.

PINSKY: OK. Interesting.

WALSH: So, you think --

WEISS: For my daughter either.

WALSH: OK. So, do you think they have sympathy if they`re fathers. Now, the question is --

WEISS: Absolutely.



WALSH: -- how many of those 11 men are fathers? Some of them may have been aroused by her testimony. Some of them may have been sort of starting to be sympathetic.

PINSKY: And a reminder that six of these jurors are alternates. Only the 12 -- and no one knows who the 12 are amongst the 18 actually up there in the box. Abe, I want to go to you. It`s an interesting point, isn`t it, that the defense may be making some inroads with men with children, do you think?

ABDELHADI: I don`t think so. And I don`t know how anyone could be aroused when you know what the punchline is. And so, that`s --

WALSH: But you don`t have kids, right? Do you have a daughter?

ABDELHADI: No. I don`t have a daughter. I`ve got a niece and nephew --

WALSH: Your world`s going to change. You`ll see.

ABDELHADI: Well, it`s hard for me to read "Penthouse Forum" when I know at the end Lizzie Borden`s going to show up with an axe and give me 40 whacks. So, I don`t understand this arousal routine. And this is what the defense is going for for sympathy, listen, man, she did what she did. There`s no sympathy here.

Abuse -- first of all, there`s no abuse. She had relationships that didn`t work out. Oh, cry me a river. I mean, you know, my dad spanked me. Everyone`s dad spanked them. I mean, I had girlfriends that didn`t behave. Whatever. I didn`t kill any of my girlfriends.

PINSKY: I`ll go back out -- yes, I get you. I hear you, Abe. You`ve been loud and clear today. I`m going to go back to Jon and Katie. What was it like sitting there with that poor family having to look at these explicit photos and all this explicit talk? My heart goes out to them.

WALSH: Oh, really.

PINSKY: Was there something palpable that you guys could feel?

WICK: It`s -- It`s horrible. I can`t imagine what these -- this family is going through. After just talking with Elisha, who you just had on your program, we met and spoke about 45 minutes earlier. And I just -- I understand why they wouldn`t want to look at the photo that was on the screen today, Dr. Drew. But something that I just got disgusted with was Jodi started to try to cry.

I mean, come on. Why -- Jodi, we`re talking Jodi Arias here. We know the pictures she`s taken and the pictures she`s posed for. Why is she crying over the photo that was displayed in the courtroom today? It just doesn`t make sense.

It`s almost as if she`s trying to mimic -- because she sits right across from where the family is. It`s almost like she says oh, the family`s crying, so now let me put the waterworks on.
PINSKY: Katie, i think you`re on to something here. Thank you, Katie and Jon. Thank you so much for your observations. Hopefully, we`ll check in with you again soon.

Next up, after the break, a special birthday salute after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
 ::snipping2::
And a reminder, HLN`s coverage of the Jodi Arias trial begins tomorrow at 3:00 eastern time. I know I`ll be watching.

Again, I have to say a thanks to my guest. And Elisha Schabel, who was so critical and provided us so much great information, I got her name wrong. I apologize for that. I also want to say thank you to my co-host all this week, Wendy Walsh. Thank you for being here.

WALSH: It`s my pleasure.

PINSKY: It`s an interesting week. Are you going to keep watching --

WALSH: I`m not going to miss a bit of this. Are you kidding? I`m going to have HLN on all day long.

PINSKY: It`s interesting. I can`t wait till the cross-examination gets going.

WALSH: Oh, yes.

PINSKY: My understanding is, I bet you we will have several more days of her on the stand. And, you know, I think if you think like I do, that it makes sense, they`re building a case that, you know, sort of fits psychologically --

WALSH: There`s a lot more sex to hear about, Drew.

PINSKY: But there`s a giant leap from the case they`re building, which I`m sympathetic to, to being a violent murder.

WALSH: Yes.

PINSKY: So, thank you all for calling. Thank you all for watching. And a quick reminder, "Nancy Grace" starts right now.

END


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  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
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« Reply #157 on: February 07, 2013, 05:31:17 PM »

Hi Monkeys,

I wonder if she moved T.A. around with a Tarp?



Happy St.Valentine's Day!

Toot, Toot,
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« Reply #158 on: February 07, 2013, 06:37:12 PM »

$5,000.00
Buy It Now Ebay.com

JODI ARIAS ORIGINAL DRAWING PURCHASED DIRECTLY FROM HER FAMILY - DRAWN IN JAIL

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Jodi+Arias&_sacat=0&_from=R40
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« Reply #159 on: February 07, 2013, 07:37:45 PM »

Jodi Arias Takes the Stand and Says She Killed Travis Alexander, Planned Suicide
Feb. 4, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-tells-jury-killed-alexander-planned-kill/story?id=18399979


Jodi Arias Describes Sexual Encounter Week After Meeting Travis Alexander
Feb. 5, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-describes-sexual-encounter-week-meeting-travis/story?id=18411629


Jodi Arias Said Travis Alexander Had 'Bill Clinton' View of Sex
Feb. 6, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-boyfriend-travis-alexander-bill-clinton-view/story?id=18420949
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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