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Author Topic: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial  (Read 379541 times)
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #180 on: February 11, 2013, 07:25:25 PM »

Cry me a river...   


http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/woman-charged-in-arizona-killing-of-lover-set-to-resume-testimony-in-death-penalty-trial/2013/02/11/de2bad0e-742d-11e2-9889-60bfcbb02149_story.html
Woman charged in Arizona killing of lover cries on witness stand, recalls happier times
February 11, 2013

PHOENIX A woman charged in the stabbing and shooting death of her lover in Arizona wept on the witness stand as she described how their relationship became physically abusive.

Jodi Arias faces the death penalty if convicted of first-degree murder in the killing of Travis Alexander in June 2008. She resumes testimony Tuesday.

 ::snipping2::
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  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #181 on: February 11, 2013, 10:00:40 PM »

Jodi Arias Takes the Stand and Says She Killed Travis Alexander, Planned Suicide
Feb. 4, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-tells-jury-killed-alexander-planned-kill/story?id=18399979


Jodi Arias Describes Sexual Encounter Week After Meeting Travis Alexander
Feb. 5, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-describes-sexual-encounter-week-meeting-travis/story?id=18411629


Jodi Arias Said Travis Alexander Had 'Bill Clinton' View of Sex
Feb. 6, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-boyfriend-travis-alexander-bill-clinton-view/story?id=18420949


Jodi Arias Alleges Travis Alexander Became Violent After Admitting Attraction to Boys
Feb. 11, 2013
http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-alleges-boyfriend-turned-boys-spiderman-underwear/story?id=18465253
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #182 on: February 11, 2013, 10:11:28 PM »

Tamikosmom
This is sickening to listen to her ! Acting like a victim!
She cannot prove anything she says! About Travis ! How much longer will this defense go on? Get to June pleeeze.

I agree Ioca.

I cannot comprehend how this uncollaborated testimony is allowed.  If this testimony is true ... which I doubt ... how does it justify a brutal premeditated murder.  I hope the prosecution crucifies the defenses strategy on the stand in the rebuttal stage.


Woman accused of killing Arizona boyfriend set to resume testimony
Published February 11, 2013


<snipped>

Alexander was stabbed and slashed 27 times, had his throat slit and was shot in the forehead.

<snipped>

Authorities say Alexander was shot in the head with a .25 caliber gun, the same caliber Arias' grandparents reported stolen from their Northern California home about a week before the killing.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/11/woman-accused-killing-arizona-boyfriend-set-to-resume-testimony/?test=latestnews
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
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« Reply #183 on: February 11, 2013, 11:17:24 PM »

This woman has had what, 4 yrs to get her script together...how does h remember every intimate detail of what happened so many hers ago..
I think that it is outrageous how Travis has been drug through the mud by his murderess. It is sickening and I hope tht all of his backfires on this slut.
And why do some say that she is so beautiful  and seductive? I do not see it..
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« Reply #184 on: February 11, 2013, 11:19:21 PM »

This woman has had what, 4 yrs to get her script together...how does h remember every intimate detail of what happened so many hers ago..
I think that it is outrageous how Travis has been drug through the mud by his murderess. It is sickening and I hope tht all of his backfires on this slut.
And why do some say that she is so beautiful  and seductive? I do not see it..

Should be...how does SHE remember....and so many YEARs ago, not hers...
Sorry for the typos
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #185 on: February 12, 2013, 11:02:46 AM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/11/ijvm.01.html
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Jodi Arias Accuses Victim of Being Pedophile, Rapist

Aired February 11, 2013 - 19:00   ET


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, an unbelievable extraordinary day in court. Jodi Arias accuses the man she viciously killed of being a pedophile and rapist. Breaking down repeatedly, she also accuses Travis Alexander having sex with her while she`s asleep.

Travis` family sits in the courtroom visibly angry, as Jodi claims Travis was sexually aroused by young boys. Is she lying through her teeth?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, the world according to Jodi Arias. She`s back on the stand, claiming Travis was a lying, cheating sexual deviant who raped her while she was sleeping and whom she once caught with child porn. He claims Travis paid her to clean his house in a French maid outfit, one of several kinky games. But where`s the corroboration for these claims? And why didn`t Jodi just leave Travis?

Jodi says she was a doormat, part of her "no self-esteem" theme. But is that self-defense? We`ll debate it with our expert panel.

And we`re taking your calls.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: I woke up, and he was on top of me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn`t want to be alone with her, did he?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He, like, when I was there or when my sister was there, that they weren`t physical.

ARIAS: He said that`s hot.
KIRK NURMI, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: How did you feel wearing these boy`s underwear?

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Travis left Jodi no other option but to defend herself.

NURMI: Had he been violent with you?

WILLMOTT: She learned to deal with his temper by being humble, compliant and agreeable.

NURMI: Had you seen instances of his temper?

ARIAS: And he smashed it, and I went into the bathroom and shut the door. And I was clicking around on his phone and found the text messages and began to read them.

WILLMOTT: During this phone call, Travis tells her that she sounds like a 12-year-old girl. It`s so hot.

ARIAS: We were erotic. They made me feel sexy and attractive.

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This, of course, is the world according to Jodi Arias.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, claims of rape and pedophilia in court today as Jodi Arias breaks down and sobs on the stand, describing walking in on Travis Alexander on his bed while he was in a sexual activity with photos of little boys surrounding him. Will the jury believe Jodi`s graphic sexual stories and now these accusations of pedophilia?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

What a wild day in court. The beautiful 32-year-old photographer on trial for stabbing her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slicing Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear, and putting a bullet in his head. But she claims it was all done in self-defense.

Well, late this afternoon, Jodi described in graphic detail, allegedly, walking in on Travis and seeing pictures of little boys in their underwear while he was pleasuring himself. We warn you: this is graphic, but it`s what Jodi said in open court. It`s central to the defense claim that Jodi was sexually degraded and abused by Travis. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I walked in, and Travis was on the bed (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and I got really embarrassed. It was a picture of a little boy. Oh, 5-ish, 5, 6. I`m not a good judge of age. He was dressed in underwear, like briefs.

I was frozen there for a minute. And I just ran. I didn`t stay. I felt nauseated. And I ran inside and threw up in the bathroom.

And I kept thinking what if he was hurt as a kid, and it made me angry to think of him as a kid and somebody violating him. And I wanted to talk to him and find out what was wrong with -- like what was going on with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Do you believe it or not? Call me: 1- 877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. You were in court for this extremely dramatic and emotional moment. Tell us what it was like in there.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Jane, this was the biggest day for the defense so far, I have to tell you, sitting in that courtroom.

First off, on Jodi`s side, her father and her younger brother appeared in court today. This is the first time we`ve ever seen them. She had a big turnout in court for family support today. And some people were wondering, well, was this done on purpose?

Because she did turn around at one point, when she`s giving all these sexual allegations, she`s telling us these stories, and said, "You know, this is really hard for me, because my parents are sitting in the courtroom." And of course, front and center, her father, her mom, her brother, her aunt. They`re all sitting there, and she`s describing all these sexual acts that Travis made her do with him, and it was definitely shocking. I mean, she`s talking about child pornography. She`s talking about what he would make her do in the bedroom, how he would make her dress.

And so that was definitely the most shocking moment, was when she was giving the allegations, the parents are there, and she even said, you know, this is really difficult for me.

And I have to tell you, for those of us sitting in the courtroom, this is one of the days where you can kind of sympathize with Jodi a little bit. People were, like, well, maybe you can understand her side of things. I think this is the first day that we`ve really heard Jodi`s side of the story.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And now she feels really comfortable on the stand after several days. It`s like she`s sort of owning the courtroom. But should she be owning the courtroom? We`re going to debate it.

Listen to this, a day, as you just heard, of shocking claims. One of the most stunning was Jodi claimed that Travis raped her. Jodi testified Travis began having sexual intercourse with her while she was fast asleep. I`m not saying drugged or drunk or restrained, just asleep. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He fell asleep, and I woke up, and he was on top of me. And he had already penetrated and started having sex with me.
NURMI: Did you give thought to the idea that this man was having sex with you while you were not conscious?

ARIAS: No, I didn`t give thought to that idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, she`s accused him of pedophilia. She`s accused him of rape. But all these things happening where only two men in the room, Jodi and the man that she killed. Therefore, he cannot speak for himself.

Let`s bring in our legal team. We are going to debate it. We have an incredible team tonight. The famed Gloria Allred, victims` rights attorney; Adam Swickle; Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor; Randy Zelin.

We`re going to start with -- let`s see -- Gloria Allred. Is this fair? Should the judge have allowed all this stuff in? Is she just basically taking control of this trial?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, I think what she`s trying to do is give as much latitude to the defense as possible.

What the defense appears to be doing is trying to weave a theme that Jodi Arias was somehow a battered woman, that Travis had the power, had the control over her; that she was being abused; that somehow because he was a battered woman, this leads into the self-defense scenario that she perceived that she was being attacked, and she had to fight back. It`s a stretch. It`s a hard sell, but I think that`s what`s happening.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Adam Swickle?

ADAM SWICKLE, ATTORNEY: I`ve got to tell you, Jane, with every word that comes out of Arias`s mouth, the state`s case gets worse and worse and worse. This is strong, powerful evidence, and the judge absolutely should let this in. This woman is fighting for her life, and there`s absolutely no reason why the judge should stand in the way of the defense being able to put on their case.

Their relationship is absolutely relevant to this case, and I think the judge is doing a great job. And let`s not forget: a judge in the back of their mind is always thinking about "If I don`t let certain things in, especially in a murder or a death penalty case, am I setting up an appeal?"

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Stacey...

SWICKLE: So this judge is doing the right thing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have a feeling, Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, this doesn`t agree with you.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Listen, I agree with one thing that Adam had to say. The judge has to let this in, because it`s a death penalty case. If they don`t let it in, there`s going to be a problem.

Is this testimony going to mean anything to self-defense? Absolutely not. You know, what everyone seems to forget is she gave three stories to the police. And so this is a crime of desperation. It`s her calling card. "I have nothing else to say, but I had to do it." So how do you say "I had to do it"? "I was battered." Now he`s in pedophilia. And how many guys are attracted to little boys and are masturbating and then have full-blown sex with a heterosexual female? I mean, and that`s what you`re talking about.

The prosecution will have a field day with her when it`s their opportunity to get up and cross-examine her.   

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Randy Zelin, criminal defense attorney, they seem to be weaving it together by emphasizing that he allegedly wanted to have anal sex with her.

RANDY ZELIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, there is no question here that the prosecution has once again overcharged. They`ve gone for the brass ring.

This woman has four chances to walk out of this courtroom. No. 1, the jury could say, "You know what? This guy got what was coming to him. She was the right person to do it." Jury nullification.

They can look at it and say, "Heat of passion," which now she`s looking at seven years. She`s already got 4 1/2 in.

You can get one juror to say, "I don`t know what`s going on here." But you know what? She`s going to get a do-over.

There are so many different ways for this woman to walk out of the courtroom, and the jury has long since forgotten all the number of stories. They`re focused in -- focused on the pedophilia, the rape and what this woman has gone through. And that the injuries are consistent with her getting knocked around.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hear somebody chatting in the background. Go ahead.

HONOWITZ: The guy is -- did everyone seem to forget that this man was in the shower, after they had sex, after she went to his house? Why does everyone seem to forget it?

I mean, honestly, she went to his house. No one was keeping her there. He didn`t have any mystical powers. He wasn`t Rev. Sun Myung Moon and she was a Moonie and had to be with him. This was her choice. If he`s a deviant in sex, doesn`t mean she gets to kill him, and that`s what it`s boiling down to.

(CROSSTALK)

SWICKLE: That`s just part of the theory. That`s just part of the theory...

ALLRED: Jane, this is also going to be a problem when...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold, hold. I hear Gloria Allred. I want to give Gloria Allred a chance to have a word.

ALLRED: Yes. I want to say this is going to be a problem, I think, for the jury once if, as I expect, they will hear that no child pornography was found on his computer, and also no photos of anyone having sex with young boys wore found in his residence. I think there`s going to be doubt in the jury`s mind, and then that could lead to their doubting Jodi Arias`s story, big-time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And if they doubt, will they be angry because they`re being deceived?

Wow, an extraordinary day. A hot panel. We`re just getting started.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He fell asleep, and I woke up and he was on top of me. And he had already penetrated and started having sex with me.

NURMI: Did you give thought to the idea that this man was having sex with you while you were not conscious?

ARIAS: No, I didn`t give thought to that idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLMOTT: What would have forced Jodi? It was Travis` continual abuse. And on June 4th of 2008, it had reached a point of no return. Travis tied Jodi up, tied her to the bed. They engaged in sexual activity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi told the jury about triple-X-rated fantasies she and Travis acted out. And here`s one, late at night allegedly, on her front porch. Again, we have to warn you, this is very graphic stuff. But it`s what Jodi said in open court, and it`s central to the defense claim that Jodi was abused by Travis. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He wanted to get out of the car, have me come out of the house, give him oral sex, and he wanted to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my face and then get back in his car and drive away without saying a single word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jodi claimed they carried out that fantasy not once, but twice.

Listen, they had a highly sexualized relationship. It`s been established they took X-rated photos of each other, and we saw X-rated photos -- triple-X-photos that Travis took of Jodi -- Jodi`s private parts.

But I want to bring in Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist, author of "Till Death Do Us Part."

Let`s talk about erotic humiliation for a second, because a lot of people don`t realize how common it is. They don`t want to talk about it. It`s an underground thing. It`s embarrassing. Nobody talks about it. But erotic humiliation is a sex game, a fetish that people play consensually all the time.

If she engaged in erotic humiliation -- in other words, if she was turned off by being sexually humiliated by Travis Alexander, that is not an argument for self-defense. That means she got off on it.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, Jodi is a seductress. And so first of all, I question whether what she`s saying is accurate.

Having said that, if you are a consenting adult, you can say, "You know what? I go along with kinky sex," because when you look at the continuum, you know, there`s kinky sex to vanilla sex, and there`s no right or wrong. And if there`s humiliation involved, usually two consenting adults will agree to engage in this kind of fantasy.

If that`s not going on, what a lot of women do, and I know because I have this in my practice, they say, "You know what? The guy is kinky. I`m not into it. I`m out of there. It`s a little weird. It`s not what I`m into."

But that`s not what we`re hearing.

And let`s say Jodi engaged in kinky humiliation. There`s a big difference between kinky humiliation and being abused in a relationship. They`re not one in the same.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I want to bring in Tanya Young Williams, who is the celebrity spokesperson for the National Domestic Violence Hotline. Because what we`re doing is we`re creating a big goulash where everything under the sun is being mixed in a giant pot.

And I believe that they did play some kinky sex games, based on the photographs that were found at the crime scene, and I think that there`s a very good chance that some of this is true. Like every good pathological liar, they frame a lie with a lot of truth around it.

So where do you stand on, is this an abuse of the domestic violence argument, to get off on a murder?

ANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, CELEBRITY SPOKESPERSON, NATIONAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE: Well, Jane, first of all, I`ve been a part of a very high-profile case and oftentimes prosecutors, as we all know, will throw everything against the wall to see what sticks. And that`s what they are essentially doing here.

As an advocate for domestic violence, I take special umbrage with the notion that she`s going to claim the domestic violence abuse as a card. It`s not anything to be played with.

I`ve spoken to scores of women, and through what I`ve learned, usually it`s a long-term period of consistent abuse that makes the woman want to crack.

But since this case, I`ve reached out to women who have reached out to me. And not one of these women have said, "You know what? After six months of being a slave toy to someone did I want to slit his throat, I want to shoot him." These acts are not consistent with domestic violence.

And what we have to be very careful of, you can`t play games. Because down the road, there`s a woman who has been beaten over, over and over again, who is the prototype for which this defense is necessary.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and let me bring in...

WILLIAMS: You`re playing with -- I`m sorry.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in Jason Lamb, former prosecutor. Because they`re just -- they`re not done. In fact, we`re going to play a sound bite where she then says he starts beating on her. And what they`re trying to say is it starts as a kinky sex game, and it escalates into physical violence.

What -- what can the prosecution do to counteract all this when the only other person who knows what happened behind closed doors is dead?

JASON LAMB, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, it`s real simple. You rely on the forensic evidence.

Listen, I`ve prosecuted and I have now defended hundreds of computer forensic-based cases, many dealing with child pornography. Like you said, there was nothing on the computer. Computer forensics are better than DNA; it doesn`t lie. You know what someone was searching for. I think we heard that in another case last year, correct me if I`m wrong.

But the fact of the matter is, what is there to corroborate anything that Jodi Arias is saying? And ultimately, she will choke on her own words, with the multiple statements she was giving. And you look at the computer forensics, that`s going to fall apart.

And you know the best thing for the prosecutor to do? To argue the forensic evidence at the scene. That doesn`t lie. So, you know, forget everything she`s saying.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but...
LAMB: The physical evidence doesn`t lie.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you say something doesn`t exist equals that she`s lying? Can you say -- I know it makes sense -- that there`s no porn on his computer, there`s no porn found in the house. Therefore, does that mean that she`s lying? I don`t know.

LAMB: The problem is...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side. We`re taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine-one-one emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s lots of blood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Count one, first-degree murder, premeditated murder.

WILLMOTT: Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been threatened by anyone recently?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has.

ARIAS: I wouldn`t use obsession. It was a two-way street.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caused the death of Travis B. Alexander.

ARIAS: I need to be honest, the evidence is very compelling. But none of it proves that I committed a murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He crossed the room, and he started shaking me. And he said, "I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED) of you," and he body-slammed me on the floor at the floor of his bed.

It startled me. It hurt, but it startled me. He called me a bitch and kicked me in the ribs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. She is talking there for the first time, holding up her ring finger, claiming that -- and she`s sort of showing -- this reminds me of "If it doesn`t fit you must acquit," the glove incident. But she`s holding up her ring finger and claiming that that shows that her finger was injured by Travis Alexander during that physical altercation.

Beth Karas, that`s the first time, to my knowledge, she`s brought in being physically battered by him. So we`re moving forward toward this battered women`s defense.

There`s a big controversy now over whether or not the prosecutors overcharged, and had they not asked for the death penalty, they would have a lot more leeway to stopping all of these stories, none of which can be corroborated, because the person on the other side is dead.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Listen, the defense wanted to introduce far more evidence on the words of Jodi Arias about this pedophilia. There were these letters she claimed Travis Alexander wrote to her where he talked about these pedophilia fantasies, apparently, but she could never produce the originals and could never say that they were -- I mean, no one could say for sure that they were written by Travis Alexander, although handwriting experts apparently come down on both sides. So they were not admitted.

So the state has been fighting tooth and nail to keep this pedophilia out, because they believe it`s an absolute fabrication. She never once made any mention to Detective Flores in the many conversations before she was arrested and the day of and after her arrest. Even though she was denying the crime at that time, she still could have said, "But I know this about him. Maybe you ought to look at that angle." She never once mentioned it.

This is something that occurred a couple of years after she was incarcerated, and at least to our knowledge from the public file, and gave notice of self-defense.

And by the way, we`re checking tape right now, but she did on July 16, the day after her arrest, tell Detective Flores that, when the two intruders were fighting, the knife missed all her fingers but one. And she held up her left hand and she pointed to a finger that is now damaged. So we`re looking now at the tape to see if it`s that finger that she now says Travis injured.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wow. Well, that would be a gotcha for the prosecutor, because it would catch her in a lie. Such fascinating stuff and the way she weaves in, "Oh, I felt like calling the police. I kind of regret that I never did. I kind of regret that I never made a record of it." She`s trying to cover all her bases.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Debbie, New York, your question or thought. Debbie, New York.

CALLER: Hi, Jane, how are you?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi. Good.

CALLER: Jane, if this is such an elaborate tale that she`s spinning, I have to tell you, in my book, so far so good, because I`m finding her quite believable and quite likable, and I never thought I`d be saying this.

But my question is, I think they`re doing very well so far, her defense team. Why would they then allow this child porn issue to come into play when they don`t have corroborating evidence?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Well, let`s bring in our panel. And I`ll start with Stacey Honowitz. A lot of people are saying if they didn`t have the death penalty, they would have far more leeway to cut down all of this and not allow her to essentially turn this entire trial into a one-woman show, like some kind of monologue, the vagina monologues, as it were.

HONOWITZ: Well, that`s very interesting. And it`s very nice to say that they overcharged. You have to remember what the facts of this case are.

She stole a gun a week before. There`s premeditation. She went to his house with a knife. She stabbed him 29 times and slit his throat from ear to ear. So there`s premeditation.

Now, we don`t know if the judge at any point would have limited this. The pedophilia is irrelevant, and it should not have come in. But because you are looking at a death penalty case, it does. Does it mean that the jury is going to buy into it?

All that prosecutor has to do is get up on cross-examination and hold those photos up, and say, "Why didn`t you leave, why didn`t you go, why didn`t you report?"


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But they`re covering that. One of the interesting things we`re going to debate on the other side, is the defense attorney cleverly co-opting all the questions that the prosecutor might ask, like "why didn`t you leave?" by asking her now? In their direct examination, they keep saying, "Why didn`t you leave?" And she offers a whole variety of answers.

So much more to debate in the Jodi Arias trial right on the other side of the break.

And at the top of the hour, Nancy Grace talks to a close friend and former roommate of Travis Alexander`s, 8 p.m. Eastern, top of the hour.

And more on the other side. More of the amazing testimony of Jodi Arias. We`ll play it for you, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On June 10, 2008, police begin their search of Travis Alexander`s home. His bathroom is covered in blood. It`s pooled outside the shower, splattered and smeared all over the sink and bathroom mirror. There`s a bloody palm print on one of the walls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) He had a list of fantasies that he wanted to fulfill. He wanted to do the mile high, which we never did. He also wanted to have sex on the freeway while driving, which we did.

In Jodi he found someone who was easily manipulated and controlled.

He wanted me to wear the boy`s underwear and have anal sex. I walked in and Travis was on the bed (EXPLETIVE DELETED). It was a picture of a little boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the little boy dressed?

ARIAS: He was dressed in underwear. Who knew what other kinds of humiliating behaviors he was capable of? (inaudible) He kicked me in the ribs.

If I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done is make it as humane as possible.

There were things he did that made me feel like a million dollars. Travis had my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Day four of Jodi Arias on the stand, and absolutely shocking allegation after shocking allegation. Jodi told the jury how she walked into Travis` bedroom and caught him, according to her, with photos of young boys wearing only their underwear and he was pleasuring himself.

We have to warn you, this testimony is graphic but it was said in open court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I walked in and Travis was on the bed masturbating. And I got really embarrassed. It was a picture of a little boy -- 5-ish, 5, 6. I`m not a good judge of age. He was dressed in underwear, like briefs. I was frozen there for a minute and I just ran. I didn`t stay. I felt nauseated. I ran inside and threw up in the bathroom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was so nauseated she said she threw up and then Jodi turned on the tears explaining how she didn`t want to believe what she saw -- was looking for any excuse to find a reason or explanation. Listen to this.

ARIAS: I kept thinking, what if he was hurt as a kid and it made me angry to think of him as a kid and somebody violating him. I wanted to talk to him and find out what was wrong, like what was going on with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Has Jodi taken control of this courtroom and turned it into a one-woman show? Randy Zelin, criminal defense attorney, is she scoring a lot of points with this testimony?

RANDY ZELIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not only is she scoring points, but she`s setting the stage for what should get her home. And that simply is establishing this pornography, pedophilia -- it`s not just to trash the victim. It`s to set up her defense, because domestic violence is about control and it`s about power.

And when the victim, when her boyfriend here crosses another social line and now is into pedophilia and she`s the only one that knows about it -- what does she have to do -- she has to up the ante with the control, up the ante with the power, up the ante with the violence, and that`s what led to her doing what she did. Remember, three bites at this apple. She can have the justifiable defense, so she walks home, she`s acquitted.

If she`s provoked --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, we get your point. Tanya?

TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, ATTORNEY: The problem with this card she`s playing, why it`s so offensive is that there is no evidence. This is their time to show what they`ve got. There`s no evidence that he was abusive consistently or he was trying to take power and control.

All I`m hearing is that she enjoyed freaky acts of sex. And you can`t all of a sudden now say I didn`t like it, so therefore I`m a battered woman and I`m going to take this very, very serious cause and use it to help me get home. There`s no evidence to support what she`s contending and her defense attorneys are contending and I take great offense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adam.

ADAM SWICKLE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Her testimony is evidence. Like any other witness who takes the stand, her testimony is evidence. And I might remind everybody out there -- prosecutors, victim advocates -- these are all the same exact people who said that Casey Anthony would never walk. Casey Anthony`s lawyer was a fool. Casey Anthony had a ridiculous defense. This is exactly what`s going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We hear you. Let`s go to Gloria Allred.

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Jane, you know, I think what she`s trying to do, what this is going to lead up to is a defense effort to say that there was a motive for Travis to attack her, and the motive would be that she knew the secret. She knew that he was into -- looking at child pornography.

Also I think she`ll try to weave a defense that somehow she was engaged in this sex, this kinky sex, wild sex, because she`s offering herself somehow as some kind of human sacrifice so that he wouldn`t act out on little boys. I think all of this is such a stretch I just don`t buy it. But we`ll have to see whether the jury does.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, your imagination, Gloria, is very possibly predicting what could come next.

Stacey Honowitz, the sky is the limit when you let a pathological liar take the stand and say anything she wants to a jury for days on end.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Yes. And the pathological liar can keep talking and talking and talking themselves right into a conviction. Lots of times prosecutors just like them to talk because they talk nonsense which is exactly what she`s doing. It`s getting -- she`s embellishing more and more and more.

Where were these stories when you got arrested? Why didn`t you tell anyone everything that was going on? Why did you continue to have sex with the man after he`s masturbated to young boys? It makes no sense.

It`s a jilted girl. He was leaving her and she premeditated and killed him. It`s really not that major of a story. She can talk all she wants. It makes no sense at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, actually she did offer an explanation for why she continued to have sex with him which we`ll play. It`s long but we`ll play that in a couple of seconds on the other side of the break. But Jason Lamb, weigh in.

JASON LAMB, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, the fact of the matter is, she needs this testimony to set up her experts. But it`s paper thin. She is all over the place with nothing to back it up. The problem is, when these experts take the stand to say that she`s a battered woman and she killed him as part of domestic violence, they are relying on her statements.

In the sealed hearing last week, the judge let this evidence in about Travis and the boys and the pictures because the experts are relying on it. The problem is: junk in, junk out. See what happens to the expert`s opinion next week when they get on the witness stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but garbage in, garbage out was used by Johnny Cochran in a case where he got somebody that basically the whole world concluded was guilty off; so garbage in, garbage out often works for the defense.

On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to a friend of Travis Alexander`s. He`s been very patient. Hang in there, Dave Hall. We`re getting to you on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: She`s the one that did the stabbing. She`s the one that slit his throat. She`s the one that shot him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In just a moment, we`re going to play you Jodi Arias` explanation why she continued to have sex with Travis Alexander even though she claims she saw him pleasuring himself to photos of young boys. We`re also going to talk to a friend of Travis` who wants to speak for his dead friend who can`t speak for himself anymore.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: It`s hard to describe because it`s very embarrassing but he seemed very -- ashamed with himself and like he didn`t want to be that way. It was something he struggled with. When he had sex with women, he felt like a normal heterosexual man. And that`s what he wanted to be. And that`s what he said he was, and that`s what I believed him to be. And I -- and so when he had sex with me and felt more normal and it was preferable to his other deviant urges, I guess you could say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias has an explanation for everything, and she has a combo platter of accusations against Travis Alexander, the victim, accusing him of being a pedophile, a rapist, having sex with a married woman, erotic humiliation -- the list goes on and on.

I want to go to Dave Hall, Travis` good friend. Again, your friend is not here to speak for himself because he was stabbed 29 times and his throat was slit and he was shot in the face. But I know the family of Travis Alexander was furious during this testimony. How do you feel emotionally, Dave?

DAVE HALL, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: You know, Jane, this absolutely infuriates me to watch this trial and to see Jodi up there on the stand saying these things. Somebody needs to send her a copy of that child`s fable book about "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" and her attorneys need to read it clearly to her because, you know, her first version was she wasn`t there, and then when evidence came out, we know you were there.

Her second version was the ninjas attacked and then she even told the ninjas -- the only physical wound she had was that left ring finger got cut by the magical ninjas out there.

And then 12 hours after she butchers Travis, she shows up here in Utah to hang out with me and my friends and she has that same left ring finger all bandaged up. Then she tells the court today that Travis broke that finger. You know she`s got 10 fingers. I find it really suspicious that the one finger on her left hand keeps getting injured by everybody out there.

I think Travis did injure that finger, but I think she has her timeline wrong. I think it happened in the fight where she was trying to kill him. She pawned it off on the ninjas. She pawned it off on cutting herself at work, which is already on record that she told Ryan Burns that she did at Margaritaville which doesn`t even exist.

I mean, this lady is a pathological liar, and now she can only make up the worst thing you can possibly say about a man that he`s now into child porn and into pedophilia. There`s not too many things out there you can say that are worse than what she`s saying. She`s a habitual liar and it drives me nuts that people even call into the show and say she`s really scoring some points. I think she`s pretty accurate. Well heck, look at her track record.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Listen, I understand your frustration. But she has an ability to mesmerize some people, and I think we`ve got some video of a guy who visits her in court all the time and who also visits her behind bars -- Brian Carr. Let`s try to show that picture. We have a highlight of it. There he is.

And he was talking to me today, and we had expected him on our show. Now he`s AWOL. We call his cell phone and he doesn`t answer.

But Josey Crews, what did he tell you about his relationship with Jodi Arias and why he is on her side?


JOSEY CREWS: Well, Jane, he told me that he has been visiting her the past year, making a weekend trip every single weekend to talk to her to get to know her. And he says the person he`s gotten to know is very different than how the prosecution has painted her. He said Jodi is a very positive person. She`s very upbeat. She knows a lot is hanging over her head but she`s is very optimistic about the way the trial is going.

He says to even put "cold blooded killer" and "Jodi Arias" in the same exact category is absurd. He says he feels it`s important for him to talk about it. He was supposed to come on our show but didn`t. He wants people to know that she`s a good person. She made the right decision. And he also told me what was really striking, he said if Jodi hadn`t have killed Travis, he believes Travis would be the one on the stand for murder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you raise an important point there. And I want to give Dave Hall and our other panelist reaction to that. Gloria Allred mentioned something -- I think it`s very significant -- that she`s going to turn the tables and use this alleged pedophilia that nobody can document because there`s no pedophilia on his computer as the basis for saying oh, I knew his dirty little secret and he had to get rid of me.

More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel when your own mother was beating you?

ARIAS: I can describe it as betrayed and confused. I consider myself very open-minded spiritually.

I knew I wanted to have kids someday and I wanted to be married someday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Pet o` the Day. Frida and Max from my friend Nova in Puerto Rico. You are beautiful. And Fannie, look at you. Tennis, anyone? And Sheamus. A bit of the Irish in you -- I can relate. All right. Ernie, you`re fabulous. We just love you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know, this has been one of the wildest and most sexually sordid days that I`ve ever heard, ever, in any courtroom in my entire decades of being a journalist. I actually feel like I need to take a shower because it just saturates me.

Is it possible, Robi Ludwig, that this could boomerang on the defense because it`s so explicit and it`s almost like at a certain point the titillation factor goes away, and you`re just feeling like -- you`re feeling almost nauseous?

ROBI LUDWIG, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it could definitely backfire because the prosecutor could say, listen, if you didn`t like what was going on, if you didn`t like what this man was about, why didn`t you leave? Why did you constantly show up at his house?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, wait. I have to jump in there, Robi. Because the defense is asking that question over and over and she`s offering explanations. And as a psychotherapist is it not true that women do get sucked into very unhealthy relationships?

LUDWIG: It is true. That`s true.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excuse the phraseology, with men, where they are sexually degraded. I`m not saying this is a justification.

LUDWIG: I hear you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t get me wrong.

LUDWIG: I know. And women will say either I didn`t know I was abused or I thought I loved him enough that I could change the relationship. But having said that, not liking the way your boyfriend sexually treats you and whether you are getting abused and your life is in danger are two very different things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but Gloria Allred said something brilliant tonight. She said -- and we`ll get her to elaborate on the other side of the break -- if they are going to take this pedophilia allegation and nobody could corroborate and use it as the basis for explaining not why she killed him but, oh, he wanted to kill her to get rid of the person who knew about his dirty little secret. Brilliant prophesying, Gloria -- we`ll get you to explain on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gloria Allred, your theory as to what the defense is trying to do?

ALLRED: The idea is that because she saw him look at child pornography -- this is their theory, again, we don`t know that`s the fact - - that somehow he feels more vulnerable. He gets angry. He commits domestic violence against her because he`s afraid that she will expose him and his secret. And because of his faith, because of his elevation in the Mormon Church, he`s afraid of being exposed. And that`s why he commits violence against her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, in essence, they`re turning the tables. They`re going to try to turn the tables on this whole thing?

ALLRED: That he will be more angry as a result of it. Look for that possibly to come out through expert testimony.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, a brilliant analysis, Gloria. We`ve got to know what`s coming, and you gave us a sneak peek.


Nancy next.

END


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  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
kcrn
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« Reply #186 on: February 12, 2013, 11:05:12 AM »

This woman has had what, 4 yrs to get her script together...how does h remember every intimate detail of what happened so many hers ago..
I think that it is outrageous how Travis has been drug through the mud by his murderess. It is sickening and I hope tht all of his backfires on this slut.
And why do some say that she is so beautiful  and seductive? I do not see it..

Should be...how does SHE remember....and so many YEARs ago, not hers...
Sorry for the typos
I agree cookie, she is not an attractive girl imo. No way she can remember all of that detail from several years ago. When does the prosecution get a shot at this skank? I hope he tears her up. This poor guy was viciously murdered & now this character assassination is allowed. I dont get why this isnt hearsay. Is there anyone to corroborate her crap stories? Sickening!
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #187 on: February 12, 2013, 11:08:58 AM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/11/ng.01.html

NANCY GRACE

Jodi Arias Says Travis Attracted to Little Boys

Aired February 11, 2013 - 20:00   ET


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I woke up and he was on top of me, and he had already penetrated and started having sex with me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You woke up with him inside you.

ARIAS: Yes. I wore cotton shorts to sleep, and they were gone, and my shirt was pulled up pretty high. He was in the act of vaginal sex.

-- pulled me on top of him and then started pushing my head and my shoulders under the covers.

Well, I presumed oral sex. I guess I just wanted to follow through with -- you know I just wanted to let him finish.

He complained about (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and about how painful it was if he has a sustained erection (EXPLETIVE DELETED). That`s my understanding of it, anyway. They were all Spider-man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he express gratification when you had them on your body?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How so?

ARIAS: He said, That`s hot. He had a list of fantasies he wanted to fulfill. I had to drive up to the home. He wanted to get out of the car, have me come out of the house, give him oral sex, and he wanted to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) face and then get back in his car and drive away without saying a single word.

-- picked up whatever it was he dropped and took it inside to find out what it was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was it?

ARIAS: It was Toblerone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on your face and threw you some candy?

ARIAS: Pretty much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight, Jodi Arias back on the stand testifying in graphic and self-serving detail. This as we learn the defense plans to trash the dead victim in the worst way imaginable. And the judge is allowing it.

We are live at the Phoenix courthouse. We`re going to go straight back into the courtroom. I want to warn you what the Arias defense is doing. Jodi Arias is on the stand and she is claiming that she walked in on Travis Alexander and found him with hard copies of pictures of little boys and that he was masturbating to them.

Now, that should ring alarms in your head because where would you get such photos? The experts have testified they ran his computer over and over and over, his cell phone, everything. There was not a single such pornographic image there to be found.

Why would we believe her? And why is the judge allowing this horrific distortion of Travis Alexander?

Let`s go in the courtroom, Liz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I walked in and Travis was on the bed masturbating. And I got really embarrassed. Even though we had been intimate, like more times than I could count, it was just kind of awkward walking in on him like that.

And I was headed toward the dresser, then I stopped, and I was trying to think of something funny or witty to say, like, Do you still need my help, or something. And he started grabbing at something on the bed, and I realized they were papers.

And as he was grabbing the papers, one kind of went sailing off the bed and it fell in that pattern that paper falls and it landed face up near my feet, and it was a photograph .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is in the photograph? What was the photograph of?

ARIAS: It was a picture of a little boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you guess how old for us the little boy was?

ARIAS: Oh, 5-ish -- 5, 6. I`m not a good judge of age.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you recognize the little boy?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the little boy dressed?

ARIAS: He was dressed in underwear, like briefs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Notice her looking down. Look at her demeanor. No matter what she has been describing for the jury, she has been looking them in the eyes until she`s telling this.

Now, do you really believe she was so embarrassed? She`s been having oral sex, anal sex, vaginal sex with this guy at the drop of a hat. Didn`t matter what he asked her to do, she would do it, and she`s suddenly embarrassed? Do you really believe Travis Alexander would masturbate to pornographic pictures of little boys with her in the next room, with child pornography spread all over the bed for her to come in and find him?

And another thing. What is he, the first pedophile ever in the history of the world that did not have child porn on his computer?

Let`s go back in the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I was frozen there for a minute -- well, maybe not a whole minute, but I didn`t know how to react. It kind of seemed like one of those dreams where something is really off but you just can`t -- you can`t figure it out.

And so I -- I left the angel there on the dresser and I turned (INAUDIBLE) and he called my name and I just ran. I didn`t stay. And I got in my car and started driving home again.

I felt nauseated. I drove all the way home, and I was trying to drive fast enough to get to -- well, I was trying not to pull over to throw up. I got home and I was hitting the garage door opener about half a block away so that it would be open. And I pulled right into the garage and ran inside and threw up in the bathroom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Stunning testimony. And I am so angry, I could chew a nail in half right now, chew a nail and spit it out all the way to the courtroom! Why the judge is allowing this, I don`t know.

We are taking your calls. Out to Liz in New York. Liz, I guess you know now that the judge is allowing Arias to testify to this supposed scenario where she catches Travis Alexander masturbating to child pornography. Yet the experts have testified -- defense and state have testified about computer and texting issues. Nobody found this type of pornography on his computer, Liz in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy, I am sick to my stomach over this. Number one, if there were -- she kept the possession of the underwear and the T-shirt, but where are the boy`s underwear that she supposedly got? She could describe them in detail. I can describe my son`s underwear in detail. But where is the underwear that she supposedly got?

And number two, she just talked about she wanted to kill herself and that she was calling her friend Matt for a gun. Do you think this is leading into why she had a gun, because she wanted to kill herself? This is how premeditation -- she`s trying to take it off the table because this is disgusting.

GRACE: I think that`s exactly what they`re doing, Liz in New York.

And another question. Out to you, Jean Casarez. After she claims that she sees Travis Alexander masturbating to child pornography, a little boy`s, does she break up and she never sees him again?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": No. Because she said that what -- the way she tried to mitigate it -- and those were her words, "mitigate it" -- is thinking, What happened to him when he was young? Why would he have to do this? What did he go through when he was a young boy?

And he called several times, she said. She did not answer, but finally, he left a very emotional e-mail -- voicemail and she called him back, and then she went over to his house.

GRACE: So if he e-mailed her, wouldn`t there be evidence of that e- mail? You can`t delete anything in this day and age.

CASAREZ: It was a voicemail. It was a voicemail.

GRACE: He never e-mailed her about it?

CASAREZ: She testified a voicemail. She said voicemail. That`s what she just testified to several hours ago. And when she went to his home, the question was, Did you bring it up with him? I didn`t have to. I stayed silent, and he started to talk.

GRACE: And what, did he call her home?

CASAREZ: He called her cell phone.

GRACE: So would there be that record?

CASAREZ: He called her cell phone.

GRACE: Is there a record...

(CROSSTALK)

CASAREZ: I would think all of these calls...

GRACE: ... cell phone call?

CASAREZ: I would think so. You know, Nancy...

GRACE: You know what...

CASAREZ: ... we don`t know specifically every single call, and that has got to be a focus of the rebuttal case here.

GRACE: You know, Jean, I am just disgusted what they are doing to Travis Alexander. It is a travesty. And this judge is allowing it. They`ve already murdered him. Now they`re murdering his reputation.

Go in the courtroom, Liz, please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I wanted -- I wasn`t -- I couldn`t imagine, like, never talking to him again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?

ARIAS: That would just be -- if we never spoke again after that point, I would feel unsettled and -- I don`t know. I wanted to let him explain at least.

I went out and checked my phone again. My phone was turned off in the visitors` center. So I went out and checked my voicemail, and there was a frantic voicemail from him finally, and there were more missed calls. And he said, Come over and talk to me, and that kind of thing. And so there was something...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, Jodi, let me -- let me address the question. Perhaps it`s difficult, but why would it be -- you just -- from what you`ve told us, you saw him masturbating to the image of a child. Why would it have been a problem for you -- or why couldn`t you imagine not having any more contact with him after that point in time?

ARIAS: When I was thinking in the temple -- I mean, I`ve heard in the past that, usually, people who have problems like that were hurt when they were children. And I kept thinking, What if he was hurt when he was a kid? And it made me angry to think of him as a kid and somebody violating him!

It was a package. I don`t remember how many were in the package, but there were three designs, like, three styles. I mean, they were all the same cut, but they had three different patterns. They were all Spider-Man.

I don`t remember the size, but they were definitely for little boys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel wearing these boys` underwear?

ARIAS: Well, not hot. I felt kind of silly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he express an intention to use these underwear or have you wear these underwear during a future sexual interaction?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel about that?

ARIAS: I was a little confused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: For anyone that loves our justice system, I guarantee you Lady Justice is crying tonight after the defense in the Jodi Arias case was allowed to have Jodi Arias on the stand under oath describe a scenario which was entirely unbelievable, for me, in which she claims Travis Alexander is in the next room -- she`s there in the home. He knows she`s in the home.

And he`s got child porn laid out on the bed, little boys, and that he`s masturbating to it, and that she walked in, saw what was happening and was embarrassed -- this is after she has done everything you can imagine sexually with him, even in public. She`s so embarrassed, she runs out and leaves and drives home.

Now, number one, I don`t believe this is true because computer experts have claimed they found no such pornography on Travis Alexander`s computer or cell phone, number one.

Number two, since when is she embarrassed about anything she does sexually with Travis Alexander? And that he would do this with her in the very next room -- it doesn`t make sense, like much of her story. But why the judge would allow this is stunning.

Out to Josh Denne, close, close friend of Travis Alexander, knows Arias. What do you think, Josh?

JOSH DENNE, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S: I think it`s absolutely insane to even -- for her to even talk about all these things that she`s been talking about, after the 48-hour issue, after the story she concocted in the beginning, and now all of a sudden, you know, this child pornography comes up? I mean, that`s ridiculous.

GRACE: Awful. Awful! What could you say about a man that is worse than this? I can`t even think of anything worse than claiming a man or woman is a pedophile. What is -- what could be worse? What more could they do to Travis Alexander, Josh Denne? What do you know of these two people? What do you know of Arias?

DENNE: When I first met Arias, I remember walking up to her and shaking her hand and looking in her eyes, and she just -- she struck me as somebody I didn`t really want to get to know. I don`t know what it was, it`s intuition in my heart. I just didn`t really want to get to know her. She seemed off.

And when I knew my good friend, Travis, who -- you know, we`d vacationed together. I mean, Travis is an amazing human being. Anyone who knew him loved him. He wanted to help people. He always went out of the way to make certain that anyone that he was interacting with was taken care of, had a positive experience with him.

And when I saw these two together, it was a little strange. And then after about a year or so, all of his friends, all of us were saying, Hey, look, you should probably be hanging out with this girl. There`s something off.

And I`ll never forget. He was supposed to be on a trip to Cancun and all of us were there, and Travis wasn`t there and I heard the news for the first time that he had been killed. And the first thought -- the first thought that entered my brain was Jodi, Jodi Arias. It must have been her.

I mean, this is -- as soon as we found out that -- that she`d been -- she`d been -- he`d been killed. It just -- it I can feel my heart pounding in my chest. I can feel the tears welling up in my eyes as I hear this preposterous story she`s concocting to create some sympathy for herself. I -- it`s...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: In a stunning turn of events, the trial judge in the Jodi Arias case has actually allowed Arias to testify that she happened upon Travis Alexander while he was masturbating to child pornography. None of this was found on his computer or cell phones. None of this was found in his home. Nowhere.

Go in the courtroom, Liz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you come away with the understanding that Mr. Alexander had a sexual interest in children?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you believe (INAUDIBLE) an interest in young boys?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you believe him to have an interest in young girls?

ARIAS: I already knew he was interested in young girls, but they were, like, sexually mature girls, but minors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: What has happened to the rules of evidence?

Out to you, Alexis Weed. What, she can just say whatever she wants? What happened to the rule book? This is inadmissible! How is the judge allowing this, Alexis?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: ... and listen to Jodi Arias go on and on and on talking about these very, very sexually deviant acts that she alleges that Travis Alexander engaged in.

Not only that, Nancy, but Jodi Arias -- you asked earlier what could be more humiliating, more of a way to slather (SIC) Travis through the mud. Well, she also brought up that Travis, today, she said, had actually engaged in intercourse with Jodi Arias for the first time while she was sleeping, Nancy.

So I guess the suggestion there is that he`s also a rapist in addition to a pedophile.

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait. You know what? It just gets more and more fantastical. So she basically slept through full on vaginal intercourse as she was laying on her stomach, and that she happened to wake up and she never complained. In fact, she said, It took me a few moments to orient myself.

I don`t think it would take me very long to orient myself! I think I could figure out what was happening pretty quickly. And then there was never a complaint.

Out to Dr. Leslie Seppinni, psychologist. Leslie, I`m not buying it. You walk in on a man masturbating to child pornography, and you continue to be his mistress? You continue in a relationship? I don`t believe that for one minute!

LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you`re absolutely right. I mean, this really shows her true pathology as a sociopath. I mean, first of all, anybody who saw that would be running to the police like crazy to protect a child. And anybody who wouldn`t do that is somebody that you don`t want to talk to.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney and author, New York, Kirby Clements, veteran trial lawyer, defense attorney, Atlanta.

Mickey, come on, please, just go with me for a moment. Don`t go with your usual, I`m going to defend anybody. I`m not saying Mickey or Kirby. Mickey, this is wrong. Why is the judge allowing this? And you know, Mickey, in this day and age, what pedophile is not going to have 2,000 or 3,000 child pornography images on their computer? This guy didn`t have a single one.

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I totally agree with you. But also, the procedure. You can`t just say that this is a child here. When they try somebody for child pornography or child molestation, they bring in an anthropologist from Yale to determine how old that child is.

What you have to understand Nancy, I think, is that the judge is protecting the verdict here.

GRACE: Oh!

SHERMAN: I think the judge is just leaning over backwards...

GRACE: You mean the not guilty she`s going to get because of this?

SHERMAN: Well, I don`t know if she`s going to get not guilty, but if she`s guilty, it`s a death case, the judge wants to appear as though she bent over backwards at every place.

GRACE: Well, I would say a contortion, that she should be in Cirque du Soleil doing some kind of a back bend inside of a little bitty box, Kirby Clements!

SHERMAN: One other point.

GRACE: What?

SHERMAN: Any seasoned attorney will know that this is a very long...

(CROSSTALK)

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I can`t hear Mickey, but I will tell you this...

(CROSSTALK)

CLEMENTS: I need to hear her testimony again about whether it was child pornography.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Whoa! I can`t -- wait, wait, wait. Finish up, Mickey, please.

SHERMAN: She is being exposed to the jury for as wacky as she is so that the jury will have a little bit of hesitation before they give her the death penalty. But this is a plea of guilty. It`s taken a long time, but that`s what it is. It`s not a trial.

GRACE: Kirby?

CLEMENTS: Yes, I can`t hear Mickey at all, so all I can tell you -- my original point was that whether she testified that it was images of little boys in underwear or child pornography -- because you can get images of little boys in underwear from Sears catalogs or anything like that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We are live at the Phoenix courthouse in what can only be described as a travesty of justice. Jean Casarez standing by there with Alexis Weed and Beth Karas at the courthouse. Jean, what is the judge`s thinking? Why is she allowing Jodi Arias to tell the jury under oath that she walked in on Travis Alexander masturbating to child pornography, hard copies? Hard copies. I`m not talking about on the computer like every other pedophile in America. I`m talking -- where did he go, to Child Pornography R Us or Walmart Porn? You know, how can you get a hard copy of child pornography if you don`t get it off your computer? You can`t walk into a store and buy child porn, not even an adult store doesn`t sell child porn, and certainly not Walmart.

But what I`m saying is, you would have to get it off your computer, and he didn`t have it on his computer. And she`s in the very next room, Jean. Of course he`s not going to have anything to do with child porn with her in the next room. Of course she would barge in on him.

CASAREZ: Let me answer all your questions. First of all, you asked me the judge`s basis. At the end of this 77-page transcript, the judge says that since their domestic violence expert used this to form the basis of her opinion, she was going to allow it in. So that`s why the judge allowed it in.

Second of all, the little boys had their underpants on, so we don`t know where these pictures came from, but they had their underpants on. She testified that he was arranging boxes, loading boxes into the attic. But, as we heard or at least in this hearing, law enforcement testified there were no boxes or pictures of little boys up in the attic.

GRACE: Let`s go back into the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he wish you to wear this underwear?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this something that fit on your body?

ARIAS: He asked me to try them on while he was on the phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did they fit?

ARIAS: The seat of the underwear fit, but the leg holes, the openings, were too small. They were really tight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you were talking on the phone with him, and he insisted that you tried on these boys underwear -- that didn`t fit you because you`re not a little boy -- did he express gratification when you had them on your body?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How so?

ARIAS: He said that`s hot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember what point in time that first encounter happened?

ARIAS: It was in the spring 2007. I think it was in May.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where were you when this first happened?

ARIAS: I was in his bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In his bed where?

ARIAS: In his bedroom, in his house in Mesa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us what happened.

ARIAS: We fell asleep, and I woke up and he was on top of me, and he had already penetrated and started having sex with me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You woke up with him inside you?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had he talked about having penile-vaginal intercourse with you before this event?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you say you woke up with him inside you, do you recall, were you dressed?

ARIAS: I wore cotton shorts to sleep, and they were gone, and my shirt was pulled up pretty high.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

When you came to, what was happening? When you woke up, what was happening?

ARIAS: He was in the act.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the act of what?

ARIAS: Of vaginal sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you want him to penetrate your vagina with his penis while you were sleeping?

ARIAS: It`s nothing I had thought about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So when you woke up and you found him penetrating your vagina with his penis, your concern was primarily about chastity, right, the law of chastity -- excuse me.

ARIAS: The consequences.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The consequences. Did you give thought to the idea that this man was having sex with you while you were not conscious?

ARIAS: No, I didn`t give thought to that idea. I felt kind of responsible --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel?

ARIAS: I felt like I was partially responsible because I went to sleep next to him. I was wearing cute shorts, a little t-shirt. So, I mean, we might have fallen asleep cuddling, I don`t remember. But I just felt like being in his bed, you know, sleeping there, that it wasn`t entirely his fault. Like maybe it was invited.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. The courtroom today is a disgrace to the justice system. Jodi Arias allowed to testify she walks in on Travis Alexander masturbating to child pornography, that he basically raped her in her sleep. All of this contradicted by physical evidence.

To Aaron Brehove, body language expert. Aaron, you have been watching her. I want to hear your opinion.

BREHOVE: I have. We see her talk about a lot of different issues, and we know she`s a liar. I think that`s already established. And we see her. She`s very calm, collected, throughout this entire thing.

We see a few differences, though. When we watch her speak, when we watch her give answers, we want to see a norm, we want to see a baseline, and what we see is not consistent. There`s one line of questioning where they ask her, did you know that he liked little boys? She says yes. They ask her another question along the same line, and ask her a third question that`s, do you know that he likes little girls? And she gives -- she changes her answer from a quick yes, to, well, I knew he liked girls that were more mature. And she gives this longer answer. And I have got to question, why are we changing so much there? Is she just telling the truth in one of those, or is it that she is associated more with one of those answers?

I think it`s probably that one of those answers might be something closer to the truth, and that`s where she`s getting it, where she is lying with one and telling the truth with another.

GRACE: And out to you, Matt Zarrell. We know what`s going down in the courtroom, but does anybody in that courtroom actually buying this?

ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, I think one thing to note here is that one person in the courtroom today we haven`t seen before, when all this sexual stuff comes out, is Jodi Arias` own father is sitting in the courtroom along with Arias` younger brother. They`re both here listening to all this as it`s being portrayed in court.

GRACE: Jean Casarez, what are the jurors doing?

CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, this is really interesting. I see two female jurors -- and let me tell you the testimony that was going on when I saw this was about just the sexual episodes, one after the other -- two female jurors are literally engaged in writing so many notes, and they`re leaning forward in their seats. And, Nancy, I don`t know if these two female jurors are going to get on the deliberating jury, but if so, they are going to be leaders in that deliberating jury. They are females. I don`t know which way they will go, but, believe me, they`re vested.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He had a list of fantasies that he wanted to fulfill, and so he wanted to drive up to the home, he wanted to get out of the car, have me come out of the house, give him oral sex, and he wanted to [CENSORED] on my face, and then get back in his car and drive away without saying a single word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You come out on the porch, you fulfill his fantasies, he [CENSORED] on your face and throws some chocolate at you. How did you feel after that?

ARIAS: I couldn`t help thinking that it was kind of like a prostitute. But I didn`t -- I put that out of my mind. I just chalked it up to one of his little antics that he did. If anything, we increased with those kind of things, the antics, all that, it you can call them antics.

On second occasion -- after he was done, he dropped something near me and got into his car and left. And so I picked up whatever it was he dropped and took it inside to find out what it was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was it?

ARIAS: It was Tod Leron (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he [CENSORED] on your face and threw you some candy?

ARIAS: Pretty much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this hard for you to describe?

ARIAS: Yes, in front of my mom and dad, it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines. Natalie in Texas. Hi, Natalie. What`s your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I`m sending you a big warm Texas hug to you and your beautiful twins.

GRACE: Thank you.

CALLER: We just love you.

I`m with you, Nancy. I`m spitting nails. Someone needs to stop the bleeding lies. Someone needs to stand up for Travis. I feel so bad for his family. My question is, is why can`t the prosecuting team challenge her to a polygraph test through all these horrible accusations?

GRACE: Natalie, how I wish it was that easy, but under our rules of evidence, polygraphs are only allowed if both sides stipulate to their admissibility before they are taken. That did not happen in this case.

Out to Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, Raleigh. Ben, you have studied so many cases where pedophiles are involved. How likely is it that Travis Alexander has all of these photos of nude or semi-nude little boys, and there`s nothing like that on his computer or cell phone?

LEVITAN: Nancy, this is such a bad lie. Because it is so verifiable. The most unlikely scenario is that this is the first time Alexander ever downloaded child porn. If that was the case, the browser would be full of search history, and we would see that. It`s -- when we find cases with pornography on it, Nancy, they just -- people collect the stuff. People who do that collect it. And they don`t print it out. It`s just such a bad lie. We see this all the time. It could not possibly be true. The police, believe me, really get riled up about child porn. If they suspected Alexander of any involvement in child porn, they would be on him. This would be more important to them than the rest of the case, because they would be trying to track the source.

GRACE: Well, not only that, Ben Levitan, you just brought up a really interesting point I hadn`t even thought of. Forget about the downloading images, Travis Alexander had never even searched for porn, for child porn on his computer, not on his laptop, not on a desktop, not on his cell phone. He had never even sought it out, much less downloaded it. He had never even gone to a child porn website, to my understanding, Ben.

LEVITAN: Exactly. These things are so verifiable that when people make -- tell lies about technology, it just riles me up. It`s amazing how stupid, you know, she can be in this case. This is something that`s easy to check.

GRACE: To you, Beth Karas, what did you observe with the jury when all of this was coming into evidence?

KARAS: You know, Nancy, it`s really hard to read anything from the jury. Some of them were taking notes. Some of them were just really staring at her. And I saw a couple of jurors kind of looking down, like looking down at their laps. I don`t know what to make of that. Maybe some of them were believing it, maybe some were looking at her thinking this is incredible. I mean, how can she sit here and say these things? And some of them, I don`t know. She`s a very good liar if she is lying about this.
 ::snipping2::

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What is going down in this Arizona courtroom is a disgrace. The Arias defense team has been given full rein to drag Travis Alexander through the mud. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: The mile high, which we never did. He wanted to pull off of a freeway on a remote highway somewhere and have sex on the hood of the car, which we didn`t do. But he also wanted to have sex on the freeway while driving, which we did. On -- it was the 10 or the 40. We were driving east across Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oral sex?

ARIAS: No. I think it was vaginal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. To the calls. Bonnie? Hi, Bonnie, what`s your question, dear?

CALLER: Hello, Nancy, oh, it`s been driving me crazy. I can`t even sleep at night. Is there anything they can do? First of all, why isn`t the prosecuting team interfering with this atrocity that`s happening, and if not, why can`t something be done about the judge? This should never be allowed.

GRACE: Let`s find out. Out to you, Kirby Clements. I`ve got the same questions as Bonnie. Why do you believe the judge is allowing it?

CLEMENTS: Well, I think what we heard earlier is that their expert has relied upon this evidence in forming their opinion. And as a result, when you want to have an expert give their opinion, the facts underlying that opinion get to come out. Whether you like them or not, and in this case, these are the facts that underlie the expert`s opinion, and so they`re entitled to bring them out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero Marine Sergeant Joseph Caskey, 24, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Purple Heart. Navy Achievement Medal. National Defense Service Medal. Family of military vets, parents Gerald and Debbie, brothers Jeremy, Joshua and John. Joseph Caskey, American hero.

Welcome back. We are taking your calls. Bonnie in Louisiana. Hi, Bonnie, what`s your question, dear?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I just want to let you know, I think she should get the Golden Globe for the best actress. This woman has told so many lies, I think she really believes her own lies, and it`s making her better at it.

GRACE: Bonnie, that`s interesting, a lot of people do believe that liars such as her, killers, do believe their own stories. I, however, think that she knows what really happened, she`s just a consummate liar.

Missy in Kentucky. Hi, Missy, what`s your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear.

CALLER: I love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

CALLER: Actually, I can`t even believe I`m talking to you. This particular court case on TV makes me crazy. I have heard her state she wasn`t afraid of this guy, and yet she stabbed him multiple times and shot him, and supposedly, supposedly, the defense started out related to the fear of him, and that`s why she did what she did.

I think that this court case has taken a turn for the worse, and I truly believe that they are going in all directions, taking her specifically out of the situation of murdering this man. And where is this man`s family? I mean, I can`t even imagine what they`re going through.

GRACE: You know, let`s talk about the family for a moment. Beth Karas, the family, Travis Alexander`s family, has been in the courtroom. How are they responding to all this?

KARAS: Oh, with derision on their faces, looks of disgust. He has seven siblings, four sisters and three brothers. Two sisters and one brother have been here almost the entire trial. One of those sisters is a police officer in Southern California, by the way, and a brother-in-law has been here throughout. They have looks of disgust on their faces, and sometimes the sister, the one that`s the police officer, Samantha, kind of smirks, you know, as though she`s giving no credence whatsoever to what Jodi Arias is saying.

GRACE: OK. And to you, Jean Casarez, I`m just wondering how you have observed the family reacting in the courtroom.

CASAREZ: In about the same way. I feel Samantha, the sister who is the police officer, she just seems to be daring Jodi to say one more lie on that stand, just hit it with me. Say one more lie.
 ::snipping2::
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« Reply #188 on: February 12, 2013, 11:16:30 AM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/11/ddhln.01.html
DR. DREW

Jodi in Boys Undies?

Aired February 11, 2013 - 21:00   ET


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Jodi Arias testimony, day four.

Did she accuse her dead ex of rape?

JODI ARIAS, ALLEGED MURDERER: We fell asleep. I woke up and he was on top of me. He had already penetrated.

PINSKY: And what about his Valentine`s Day gift to her? Spider-Man underpants.

ARIAS: He asked me to try them on.

PINSKY: Was Jodi lying on the stand today? One of my guests says yes.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Welcome to the program.

I would also like to welcome my co-host for the week, former prosecutor Loni Coombs.

Joining us as well, Lisa Bloom, attorney at the Bloom Firm and legal analyst for avo.com. She has a blog there about this very case we`ll be discussing tonight.

And Janine Driver, a body language expert and author of "You Can`t Lie to Me."

Loni just says she`s the human lie detector and she`s someone we need to talk to tonight because everything hinges on whether or not Jodi is lying or not. There was explosive sexual testimony.

We`re going to pick up where we left off last week, with a story about little boy`s underwear. A reminder, this is not for young viewers. Just - - so please, pay attention.

LONI COOMBS, CO-HOST: Yes.

PINSKY: OK. First off, let`s take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The other item you received from Mr. Alexander was Spider-Man underwear.

ARIAS: I don`t remember the size, but they were definitely for little boys. The seat of the underwear fit, but the leg holes, the openings, were too small. He wanted me to wear the boys` underwear. He had a lot of anal sex fantasies. He wanted me to wear the boys` underwear and have anal sex.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us now, "In Session" correspondent Beth Karas.

So, Beth, where is the defense going with this, first of all? And what is it like for this poor guy`s family to sit through all this?

BETH KARAS, IN SESSION CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, the family sits there with looks of disdain, derision, grimaces, smirks on their faces. Two sisters and a brother. He does have four sisters and three brothers, but three are always there.

The little boys` underwear, the Spider-Man underwear, some may say it comes from a scene in "Charlie`s Angels" when Cameron Diaz was dancing in them.

However, Jodi Arias said she thought it was a little weird and she went along with that. Now, Travis Alexander had listed at least six fantasies that he had. She told the jury about them today and they acted out at least three of them.

And one of the fantasies was for her to wear little boys underwear, the Spider-Man underwear, and he would have anal sex with her. Now, we learn later in the day that she walked in on him masturbating to photos of little boys, like little boys 5 or 6 years old, she said. So it leaves one to conclude he fantasized that she was a little boy wearing these underwear and he`s having anal sex with her. And they would do that a lot, she said.
PINSKY: Loni, I want to ask something right off the top. Why does the judge allow the defense to drag this poor victim through the mud like this? Isn`t there some propriety issues?

COOMBS: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes. Tell me about that.

COOMBS: Yes, not even just propriety, there has to be some truth to it. And honestly, the judge sits there as the guardian of the integrity of the case. And what I am extremely about in this case is I don`t know that the judge is doing her job here. She had this hearing where the defense said we want to go into this whole child molestation theory. You know what? In every jury trial, the defense has theories they want to put out there, but the judge listens to it and says, well, do you have a legitimate basis to bring this up on?

If there is no evidence, no corroborating evidence to found this on, then you don`t get to just throw it up on the wall and let the jury hear it because, yes, the prosecutor can argue it and do cross examination, like everybody says wait for the prosecutor to cross examine, but it`s like unringing the bell.

And that`s why it`s the judge`s job to sit there --

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: OK, but Loni --

PINSKY: Lisa --

COOMBS: Lisa, I`d love to hear what you have to say because I really think the judge is wrong here.

BLOOM: Loni, you`re a great prosecutor, but this is a death penalty case.

COOMBS: Yes.

BLOOM: And I agree, everything she`s saying is disgusting.

COOMBS: Yes.

BLOOM: And she`s probably lying, I agree.

But in a death penalty case, we have to let the defendant testify. We have to let them put forth every theory, and the defense testimony is evidence. There is no requirement under the law that there`d be corroborating evidence.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Lisa, I want to make sure I`m hearing you right.

So, you`re saying a defendant can get on the stand and say as many horrible, awful things that they want to just on a whim without any evidence? I guess in this case, they have an expert who`s going to corroborate that this all makes sense, which, of course, you could put it all together in such a way that it does.

BLOOM: She doesn`t even need that. She just -- an attorney can`t put on a client who they know is lying. But Jodi Arias swears that she`s telling the truth. I`m going to assume her defense attorney has no reason to believe that she`s lying. No evidence to the contrary.

PINSKY: Well, she never lied before, Lisa. We know she`s not a liar!

BLOOM: We`re not going to put somebody to death in America without giving them a fair trial, without giving them a chance to put on all their evidence.

PINSKY: All right. OK.

BLOOM: I think she`ll be lying, I think she`ll be convicted. But come on. Let`s not railroad the woman.

PINSKY: OK. Go ahead, Loni. I want to hear from Janine about -- our human lie detector, whether there`s any basis in all this. But go ahead.

COOMBS: And here`s my concern, Dr. Drew, you know this. As an expert, when you speak as an expert and give your opinion, people listen to you and trust you because you`re an expert. When she has defense experts come in and talk about what she said, it gives an aura of credibility and truthfulness to what she said.

PINSKY: And here`s the reality. She has put together -- the defense team has done a fantastic job of weaving a story that makes perfect sense. It`s like a brick wall where every brick fits.

The problem is, Janine, even though it all hangs together, the overall arc of this is something built on, like, mud. It`s going to sink under its own weight even though the wall itself, you know, using this brick analogy, is sound, it`s built on something, I suspect, that`s completely -- has no foundation.

JANINE DRIVER, AUTHOR, "YOU CAN`T LIE TO ME": Well, Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: So my question to you, Janine, is she lying or isn`t she? What do you think? What do you see today?

DRIVER: I think she`s lying. She`s a compulsive liar. We see her lie quite a bit.

Think about it, when she did these interviews with the media where she came out and said no jury is going to find me guilty. What did she do? She looks up, she talks to us. This is her baseline.

Here when she is in court. More often than not, we see Jodi, like for instance, her with the underwear, we her eyes looking down. And when she`s looking down, Dr. Drew, it`s almost like her eyes are closed. This is a sign we often see with people who are being deceptive.

It tends to be a stall technique, they`re creating their answer as they`re looking down. This is a deviation in their baseline behavior. So, this is a hot spot.

Now, we look verbally, Dr. Drew. We have three major hot spots verbally. Number one, she`s asked, you know, did you try not to have sex? She said, I try to be abstinent. I try is current tense. I`m looking for past tense. I was trying to be abstinent, I still try to do that today.

She only talks in the current tense, not the past tense. This is a hot spot.

Second hot spot. Did you confront him when he had sex with you and you were sleeping? She said, quote-unquote, "didn`t have the courage." She drops the eye here. This is another hot spot.

We say "I" when we want to associate with someone, when we actually are telling the truth. She drops the "I". Didn`t have the courage.

Last verbal hot spot, Dr. Drew, with deception is she talked about, did you want to have sex while you sleep? You know, the question was asked, would you like to have sex while you`re sleeping? She said this: not something I think about.

Dr. Drew, yes or no, would you like me to smash your head with a pole tonight?

PINSKY: I would not like that. How about that?

DRIVER: So, what am I looking for? I`m looking for a yes, I`m looking for a no. Not -- you didn`t say to me, Dr. Drew, well, it`s not something I thought about.

So, you just ask, yes or no, loaded with deception.

PINSKY: Thank you for that review. I want to bring back Abe Abdelhadi. He`s back with us exclusively. He dated Jodi briefly.

Abe, you actually were brought I guess in court again today. You heard what Janine was saying. What`s your reaction to all this?

ABE ABDELHADI, DATED JODI ARIAS (via telephone): Well, she`s dead on the money, and to listen to some of the testimony and to catch some of it after I got home from a couple of appointments, it blew my mind that, (a), she had the timeline wrong, and then again, you know, her reckless disregard for the truth which seems to be synonymous with her very name just really upset me.

There was a couple things she had mentioned about Travis being upset when he saw us together. It wasn`t even the right time that we could even have been together at the convention. I saw her in passing.

PINSKY: What do you do with the extraordinary allegations about him being into pedophilia?

ABDELHADI: Well, I honestly recommend the defense attorney take a class in marketing, because I would like to know what 30-year-old person who was nannied and weaned on the Internet has any pictures, printed matter. Listen, I`m a 49-year-old man. I come from the age where we used to have to steal our dad`s "Playboys" and take them into our clubhouse when we were 11.

I`ve had my stuff on my personal pictures when since I was forever, and I`m 49 now. And, by the way, it`s hidden like James Bond. So, if the police can`t find Travis` stuff, it means there was nothing there to be found.

By the way, he had roommates. When I was in college, I had roommates, and I don`t mean to be too much information, but Good Lord, you don`t do that kind of stuff. You`re like a spy.

And Dr. Drew, you`re a male. You know what I`m talking about. You remember the old days.

PINSKY: Abe, thank you for accusing me that. I appreciate that. To all my viewers at home (INAUDILBE)

(CROSSTALK)

ABDELHADI: I`m just saying.

PINKSY: We get the point. I am just saying, I absolutely 100 percent agree with you, the guys that are into that are into it and there would be evidence.

This whole thing, Abe, there`s all these allegations and essentially zero evidence.

Thank you, Beth Karas.

Next up, we`re going to meet the woman who had to look away when some of the graphic images were shown in court. We have the exclusive with two of Travis Alexander`s friends.

And Abe will stay with us.

And we`re all back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He wanted me to wear one of those French made outfits and I woke up and he was on top of me. Pulled me on top of him and then started pushing my head and shoulder under the covers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For what purpose?

ARIAS: Well, I presumed oral sex. I kind of felt like a prostitute.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That is what Jodi Arias testified about, what she says Travis Alexander did to her. I am back with my co-host this week, former prosecutor Loni Coombs, who I keep mispronouncing as Colmes, I apologize for that. And I`ll do it and I`ll mispronounce it again. No doubt, because that`s the way I am. I don`t learn.

COOMBS: Keep working on it.

PINSKY: Our next guest covered her eyes when she heard and saw Jodi Arias graphic testimony in court. That is Pam Larsen avoiding some disturbing images that were shown to the jury.

She joins us exclusively with Julie Haslem.

I hope I`m pronouncing your name correctly Julie. They were close friends of Travis Alexander.

I`m going to go to Pam first. Now, we saw Pam how you reacted to the testimony -- that was I think a couple days ago, if I remember right -- and we had to sit through horrible, graphic, mudslinging today.

Where are you at? How do you feel? Who is Travis Alexander as compared to how Jodi paints him?

PAM LARSEN, KNEW TRAVIS ALEXANDER: An entirely different person. He was an amazing young man. Everybody loved Travis. He was one of the kindest, had the most wonderful heart of anybody I had ever met.

COOMBS: How did you know him? What was your relationship with him?

LARSEN: I knew him through Prepaid Legal.

PINSKY: You were salespeople together.

And, Julie, you know Jodi, or you had the chance to meet her I guess around Travis. What were your impressions of her?

JULIE HASLEM, KNEW TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, my impression of her in the beginning was that there was just something off about her. When you looked into her eyes, they were just dark and empty, and I just felt a little crept out being around her.

PINSKY: Julie, I`m going to interrupt you for a second.

Janine, we`ve heard that impression over and over again. What are people talking about?

DRIVER: They`re saying that she has no affect, right? So, this is why I love Jodi Arias being on the stand. We know that juries mirror the emotion of someone who is on the stand. When there`s no affect, this sends a message to us at home that the jury will feel nothing for Jodi Arias.

Why? We are now seeing this zombie that people, Travis Alexander`s friends have been talking about now for weeks, for months, saying they matter. At first they thought she was pretty, but there was something spooky about her. There was just no emotion. There was something scary. They didn`t want her around their kids or she could no longer visit at the halfway point.

And now the jury is seeing it. Some of the jury has checked out. When we hear earlier, Beth was talking about on Nancy Grace earlier tonight, some of the jury are looking down. When we look down, we look down with emotions.

So the jury is getting emotional, but not the kind of emotion Jodi Arias needs. They are not being sad or feeling bad for her.

COOMBS: You know, Pam or Julie, I`d be curious to know. Did either of you ever see Jodi Arias with Travis, and did she ever seem obsessed with him? Because there`s a lot of talk about him being abusive to her, and I`m hearing over and over again from the stand over this last few days that despite the horrible things she`s saying he did, she kept going back, she kept going back.

And I was wondering, in their interaction, did you see any of this kind of focused, obsessive behavior on her part towards him?

HASLEM: I absolutely saw that. I have mentioned that before. She was very clingy to him. She definitely was obsessed with him. She didn`t want him out of her sight, and, I mean, we`ve heard testimony of that. We`ve heard her go through his text messages, go through his e-mails. That`s an obsessed person.

PINSKY: Let`s get someone from the audience in here.

Sheila in Texas is a caller. Sheila, go ahead.

SHEILA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Sheila.

SHEILA: I`ve been listening to this. There is no way that what she did to Travis is self-defense. There is just no way. And the reason I say that, I`ve listened to her tell her story, horrendous story. Even she uses the word slaughtered.

PINSKY: Yes.

SHEILA: Slaughtered and self-defense, it`s not the same.

PINSKY: And, Loni, there is a sort of reasonable force as part of self-defense.

COOMBS: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

PINSKY: Yes.

COOMBS: And this will come up when they talk about the law. But, first, there has to be a reasonable perception that`s what`s coming at her is deadly force, and we`ve seen the pictures. He was taking a shower naked, right?

And then her response has to be reasonably equal to the force she`s, you know, receiving, reasonably, and the 29 stab wounds and the slit from ear to ear and the shot to the head? That is in no way reasonable to what she perceived. It will be interesting to see what she says was about to happen when she had to respond that way.

PINSKY: Yes. I mean, it`s just bizarre. Everybody told tight here.

Next up, we have more with our exclusive friends of Travis`.

And later we have a jury. The people I select out of the courtroom. The question I`m going to ask them, are they becoming -- and I think we have one of them becoming more sympathetic with Jodi. Why and what the other one feels. There is a lot of drama in the courtroom. We`ll talk to them after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I am back with my co-host this week, attorney Loni Combs.

And we are talking with Travis Alexander`s friends, Pam Larsen and Julie Haslem. And a reminder for viewers, if there are children in the room, we`re dealing with adult themes tonight. It was very difficult material spelled out in court today.

Now, are you guys -- now, we know that Travis was Mormon. Are you guys Mormon as well?

LARSEN: Yes.

HASLEM: Yes.

PINSKY: You are Mormon.

COOMBS: I have a question. It`s interesting to hear the way Jodi is kind of painting the story. As Mormons, and I`m assuming there is probably a number of Mormons on the jury since Mesa is a high percentage of Mormons there --

PINSKY: I did not know that, but that`s interesting. OK.

COOMBS: Yes. So, do you think what she`s saying, the details and graphic sexual fantasies resonate with Mormons perhaps in a different way? Is it more distasteful? Is it more offensive?

PINSKY: Especially -- you guys before you answer -- especially when she had just been baptized, she was claiming to be -- well, she was claiming a sort of, what would you call, like a proprietary membership. You know, like she`s -- and yet soiling the whole thing at the same time.

COOMBS: On the same day she was baptized, there was a lot of significance to that, committing your life to a lifestyle like this and saying they went right home and had not just sex, but anal sex. I mean, you think, that those jurors, yes --

PINSKY: Well, let`s hear the ladies. Go, what do you think?

LARSEN: I don`t believe it. I don`t believe it for an instant. Travis was very -- he got a little sidetracked when it came to Jodi, but when it comes down to it, he`s a very religious man. He really believed in his church and in his -- in the gospel, and I don`t believe for a second that happened.

PINSKY: I get that. But do you think the jurors are more deeply affected by this kind of disgusting material, knowing that she was soiling her commitments as well?

LARSEN: Well, I really hope not, obviously, but at the same time, I think when you watch Jodi and you listen to her, she puts her tears when she needs to, when it looks good. You can`t look at Travis` picture, a live picture of him, yet in the interrogation, she wanted to keep looking at the pictures of what she did to him.

COOMBS: What are your perception --

LARSEN: I mean, I think the jury is smart enough to take this all in.

COOMBS: Speaking of the jury, are you watching their reactions to her? How do you read them, and do you think some of them might be buying what she`s saying?

HASLEM: I`m not sure that they`re buying it. I definitely watch the jury when I`m in there, and there`s a couple of jurors that will always write notes, that they continue to write notes throughout this trial.

But I`ve noticed that there are a couple of jurors that have been writing notes, and today weren`t writing notes. I don`t know what that means. But they`ve seen all the evidence that we`ve seen. I think she`s proved that she`s a liar.

PINSKY: Oh, she has proven that many, many times. We know that for sure about her. Just like Casey Anthony, one thing we know for sure, liar.

Listen, we`re looking at pictures of you alongside your picture here, ladies, when you were with Travis in happier times. It is very -- you got to remember, this is a very, very sad reality, that a young life was cut short. A lot of people lost someone they loved, and now, things are getting dragged through the mud in a way that has got to be deeply disturbing to a lot of people.

Next up, I`ve got more of our exclusive with Travis` friends.

And later on, I`ve got my jury. Are they siding with Jodi? And one of the jury members has something to reveal. There she is, about her own history and how she relates to what Jodi is talking about. Do not go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He had a list of fantasies that he wanted to fulfill.

Travis offered to pay me to clean his house. He wanted me to wear one of those French maid outfits.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you were also having a sexual relationship with him at this time, weren`t you?

ARIAS: Yes. He wanted me to drive to home. He wants us to get out of the car, have me come out of the house, give him oral sex and he wanted to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my face, and then get back in his car and drive away without saying a single word. He had a lot of nice suits and he wanted me to perform oral sex on him in his office while he was wearing those suits. That one we did many times, probably his whole wardrobe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That was Jodi Arias, again, regaling the jury with a list of Travis Alexander`s alleged fantasies.

And, Pam and Julie, thank you for joining us. I know this has to be very difficult for you guys.

And, Travis` family, please, our best to everyone back there in Mesa. My thoughts are with you. We`ll get more from them, hopefully, as this trial unfolds. I`m back with my co-host, Loni Coombs, and I want to read a quick Twitter to you guys. This is from -- where was it?

Oh, shoot, I think -- @bgazader, G-A-Z-A-D-E-R. "This is a travesty to the domestic violence victims. I am one who has survived my husband`s eight stab wounds in 2006. Jodi Arias is not a victim here."

Abe Abdelhadi, you`re still with me. What are your thoughts?

ABE ABDELHADI, DATED JODI ARIAS: Well, I agree with that Twitter feed. All of this -- by the way, waiting for the big deviance bomb, you know? Oh, my God, she was going to wear a French maid outfit. Oh my God, they had some fantasies a couple do things together. I mean, none of this is speaking to anything that she`s corroborating the story. It`s just so insulting to anybody that`s been through this. I`ve got some friends --

PINSKY: Abe, let me interrupt you and say we want back to the Spiderman underwear. You know, they seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on, oh, she`s wearing little boys` underwear. I mean, given the perspective as a male, don`t you think it could be it`s just a joke? He kept saying, oh that`s so hot, ha, ha. This is some joke I`m putting you through. You know what I mean? Doesn`t it feel like they`re goofing around?

ABDELHADI: I get the impression that they`re probably goofing around. And I mean, who knows what happens between two people in a room, and I think somebody alluded to the fact that "Charlie`s Angels," Cameron Diaz is dancing around in the beginning, was that -- would be PG and she`s wearing Spiderman underwear. It`s like -- I mean, whatever.

(CROSSTALK)

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY, THEBLOOMFIRM.COM: None of this is true. She`s the biggest liar. She lied to the police and said she wasn`t even there. Then she lied to the police and said there were two intruders that killed him, and then her third story is self-defense. The jury knows that. I think we all need to take a deep breath. Of course, this is terribly insulting to the domestic violence victims. I agree.

I wrote about that on my blog on Avo.com today. That`s the real outrage in this case, because she`s insulting other victims by pretending to be one. But guess what, there`s going to be a cross-examination of her. It`s going to be beautiful. She`s going to be destroyed. The jury is going to see through all this.

Jurors are not dumb. They`re going to understand that she`s a horrible liar, and she`s going to be convicted.

LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: But you know, Lisa, as you know, after being a prosecutor for a number of years, I mean, it took us years to even be able to bring up this spousal abuse and domestic violence defense. Yes, for many years, you weren`t able to mention any of that.

PINSKY: Abe? Abe, you first, then Janine -- Abe.

ABDELHADI: Well, the best they can do -- so far, all the testimony that I`ve heard, this is the best you can do? I`m from Los Angeles, man. I`m waiting for the big deviant bomb, and it`s not coming.

COOMBS: Well --

ABDELHADI: The guy wasn`t a deviant.


COOMBS: Well, Abe, we did get to child molest today, and I was going to ask Dr. Drew, you know, as the expert, it was almost like Jodi put a list of all the sexual deviant behaviors and went through a checklist down today. I mean, I was just like every time we got to another, and then she hits the child molester (ph), I was like, oh, that`s just it.

PINSKY: Here we go. Right.

BLOOM: And she stayed with him. She stayed with him believing she was a child molester.

COOMBS: Yes. Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

COOMBS: Exactly.

ABDELHADI: Let me jump in for one second.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Abe, go ahead. Then, we`ll get Janine --

ABDELHADI: I`m sorry. And this is a woman, by the way, who told me on multiple occasions that this is somebody she could not imagine being without. This would be a great father to her children. This is somebody that would be an excellent husband. OK, this is a guy, with all these sins and these egregious behaviors, this is somebody you want to father your kids?

PINSKY: Abe, I think the rubber hits the road right there. Janine, what do you want to say?

JANINE DRIVER, AUTHOR, "YOU CAN`T LIKE TO ME": I want to say when a domestic violence victim is talking about what happened, we`re looking for micro expressions of what, what emotion does this person feel? Fear. And fear, in law enforcement, we call this the three whites. We`re looking for the eyes to just open really wide for quick second. You see the white part of the top, the inner and the outer. This is true fear. We don`t see fear. You know what we see in this clip?

PINSKY: Shame. You see shame.

DRIVER: No, we don`t. You know what we see? We see happiness. She is smiling. This is call duping delight. When she talks, Dr. Drew, about getting out of the car and having oral sex, we see a smile on her face. This is duping delight. We see this with murderers all the time. Casey Anthony. Check. She`s smiling.

PINSKY: Inappropriate glee is what I told.

(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: There could an explanation for her lack of affect. Drew, do you think she`s medicated during the trial?

PINSKY: I don`t think she`s --

(CROSSTALK)

COOMBS: I don`t, either. She`s very responsive.

PINSKY: Yes, I agree.

COOMBS: And Janine, did you see that interview where they say, you know, is anybody going to convict you, and she said, no, there`s no way. She`s smirking during that. She`s smiling about that.

DRIVER: Not only she`s smirking, she turns around and tries to tell us that the reason she said that is because she was going to try to commit suicide.

COOMBS: Right. Right.

DRIVER: If that`s the case, Jodi Arias, how come when you`re telling us that, there is no emotion right there? Trying to commit suicide? She looks right at us instead of going down, which is kinesthetic in emotion. That`s a bunch of malarkey. It`s another lie, put it on the lie column, and we divided it up, another lie for Jodi Arias --

PINSKY: Kathy in Arizona, go right ahead.

KATHY, ARIZONA: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Kathy.

KATHY: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hey, Kathy, go ahead.

KATHY: Hi. I just want to make sure before I talk that everybody knows I`m not condemning Travis or the Mormon church, but I am a single woman, new convert to the Mormon church, and I don`t have a family or children, and I can totally understand how this whole thing happened.


First of all, in the Mormon church, if you`re a single person, you can`t even go to the celestial kingdom if you die single. And also, Jodi and Travis, both of them in that situation, neither one of them had anybody to go to or talk to. And when you`re hiding stuff, it only gets worse if you don`t --

PINSKY: Sure, but I`m not sure they had no one to go to or talk to. In fact, they had lots of -- Abe, she talked to you a lot, for that matter.

COOMBS: There`s plenty of people have talked to them. There`s friends to talk to, people in the church you can talk to. You can go talk to your bishop like --

PINSKY: And by the way, I have actually treated a lot of Mormons over the years. The church is a very good job of bringing people in and helping with the treatment process. If somebody said I`m out of control with my behavior --

COOMBS: Right.

PINSKY: They would -- I mean --

COOMBS: They have addiction programs.

PINSKY: Absolutely.

COOMBS: They have all sorts of programs.

ABDELHADI: Travis had a lot of good friends, too. Travis had a lot of good friends who were steeped in the church. They guided him. His family, his grandmother. He had people he could go to. He was dialed into that church way more so than Jodi Arias was. He could have gone if he, quote, unquote, "needed this help."

By the way, this is like Keyser Soze. This woman is telling us from her point of view, which is a complete fabrication.

COOMBS: Only her point of view.

PINSKY: Well, only her point of view. And again, this is really the point I`d like to make tonight. I don`t see any -- it all hangs together. It`s a beautiful story. She`s weaved a beautiful -- right

COOMBS: But where`s the corroboration?

BLOOM: It doesn`t hang together at all. I disagree.

PINSKY: Listen, in terms of if I were the expert witness on the stand, this is the story I`d like them to tell, I wouldn`t be concerned about the evidence because I`m not a legal person. there Is no evidence, though. No evidence.

COOMBS: It`s almost perfect from an expert`s point of view.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: That`s my point. Lisa, thank you for that advice, and I have to say goodbye to you now, Lisa. And Janine, I got to say goodbye to you as well. Abe, you always give us really interesting perspective.

Next up, my jurors are back. Did Jodi`s testimony and tears today affect them, win them over, change their feelings? They will tell us what went on to the room today and with the jury.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: It`s time for what we call "dr. Drew`s jury." If you remember, we had that back in the Casey Anthony days. Now, we`ve got that here for Jodi Arias case. I`m back with my co-host this week, former prosecutor, Loni Coombs. I want to quickly read a Twitter feed for a minute. I mentioned the woman`s Twitter a few minutes which just talked about how this whole case of travesty to domestic violence victims.

And she Twittered back and said, "Thank you, @Dr. Drew. I heard you air my statement. I`m glad. I finally have a voice. Those are kind of moving and kind of telling about how domestic violence victims feel.

I want to go now out to my jury. Joining us, Katie Wick and Jacob Whitehurst. They were actually in the courtroom today as Jodi continued her graphic testimony. Now, you guys, I saw you running around trying to get your mics set up. If there`s any more technical problems, we`ll give you a break. So, don`t worry. I know this is -- you know, you`re out in the field.

Let me go to -- Katie, we`ve talked to you a bunch. I want to go to Jacob first because I think he has some interesting things to say. Let me just straight up ask Jacob. Did you believe Jodi today in court?

JACOB WHITEHURST, DR. DREW "JUROR": I did. Yes. I think she was being sincere. I believed what she had to say.

PINSKY: Do you think other male jurors bought it as well?

WHITEHURST: Yes, I do. From a guy`s perspective, I would say they did as well.

PINSKY: Katie, what is your take?

KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": Yes. Oh, Dr. Drew, it`s really interesting because for the last week, this is what I`ve been really interested in hearing is a male`s perspective. For me, do I think the jury is buying it? Some of them, yes. I`ve noticed a couple men who were not taking notes last week sitting up today taking notes.

Towards the beginning, there was a lot of this, a lot of -- one guy was swiveling, one guy actually dropped his notebook on the floor. I don`t know if he dozed off by accident or what happened there. But as far as the jury taking it, they`re paying a lot more attention in the afternoon session, absolutely.

PINSKY: Katie, how do you personally interpret what Jodi was saying on the stand today? I understand you had some history. I don`t know if you feel comfortable talking about it, but can you tell us why this resonated for you, particularly?

WICK: Dr. Drew, I was in a relationship that began to become very abusive. What really struck me was when Jodi talked about the wrist grabbing. I went through that with a guy that I was seeing about five years ago. The issue is, is that I fled from that. There was an instance where I was actually in California myself, and I took a flight home -- I found a police officer and I took a flight home at 3:00 in the morning.

I ran away from that. When I hear about how Jodi drove hundreds of miles to that situation, something just does not connect well with me on that at all.

COOMBS: And that`s what I wanted to ask both of you. I think that some of the details she told today were very compelling, and people who`ve been in situations, relationships that are abusive could really relate to some of those things. But when you step back and put it in the package of Jodi and what we do know about her, and then this continuous pattern of her then going back towards her.

He`s not coming towards him -- her, she keeps going to him, driving hundreds of miles to be with him after all of these things have occurred. Does that, in any way, kind of raise red flags to you about, OK, perhaps the story is credible, but is it credible coming from Jodi as a real victim herself or she just mimicking maybe some stories that she`s heard or that she`s read about?

WICK: It`s interesting you say that because I think she is mimicking, because she still has way too much detail in what she remembers. And the relationship I was in, I remember the incident, but I don`t remember what shoes he was wearing or, you know, how many birds are in the tree. I don`t remember things like that. It makes no sense to me.

PINSKY: And yet, Jacob, you still feel what? When she cries, you feel a desire to save her? What`s the feeling you get? Do you feel compassion towards her?

WHITEHURST: Well, here`s the thing. I think that she was telling the truth in what had happened. What`s going through her head, I mean, I`m not exactly sure. They brought up the phrase battered women`s syndrome. What goes through a woman`s head whenever any man will hit her, then he apologizes and the woman says, well, OK, everything is fine?

Why are the apologies at any extent forgiven or accepted? Why are these men or these batters forgiven at any level? The fact that they`re forgiven at any level, even low level means who is to judge at what level she went to to say, oh well, now, she`s crazy because she went back for this but not that.

PINSKY: And Jacob, what made you want to follow this trial? What are you doing there in the courtroom?

WHITEHURST: I`m going to be honest. My wife`s got involved in it. So, she got involved in it means I get involved in it, and I think it`s fascinating. I mean, it`s local. I`m sorry, go ahead.

COOMBS: Do you know any of the people involved, any of the witnesses or any of the parties? Are you, in any way, connected to anyone in the case?

WHITEHURST: Personally, no. No, nobody.

PINSKY: We have learned Jacob is severely co-dependent, though.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: He`s going to rescue Jodi Arias, and if his wife likes the case, he likes the case. Not that I blame you, it`s all good. Go ahead, Katie.

WICK: I was going to say, Dr. Drew, it`s interesting to me because I talk to a lot of guys and they say, this kind of freaks me out. It`s kind of like the modern day fatal attraction.

COOMBS: Absolutely.

WICK: So, I don`t know. Maybe some guys are thinking twice before they make --

PINSKY: Yes, Katie, yes. I think that`s very true.

COOMBS: Very good point. Cautionary tale.

PINSKY: Yes. We live in a time when people hook up, what`s the big deal. It has profound impacts on people, and the wrong person can, you see, shatter lives.

COOMBS: We know from Jodi. I mean, she has this whole picture in her head of what`s going on, but she`s not telling him, I don`t like this, I don`t want this. So, Travis may have a very different picture of what`s going on here.

PINSKY: Hold on, everybody. I`ve got more with the jury after the break. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING EX-BOYFRIEND: I walked in and Travis was on the bed masturbating. He started grabbing at something on the bed, and I realized they were papers. It was a picture of a little boy. He was dressed in underwear. I`ve heard in the past that usually people who have problems like that were hurt when they were children, and I kept thinking, what if he was hurt when he was a kid?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That`s Jodi Arias testifying about what she says was interesting to Travis. It`s been quite a day. I`m back with my co-host this week, Attorney Loni Coombs. And once again, we`re talking about issues for a more mature audience. Please, viewers, take the according precautions.

Katie Wick and Jacob Whitehurst are part of what I call my jury. And Jacob, before the break, you asked why women go back to abusers? And there actually is some theory about that. When somebody is in an abusive relationship, they can bond to the trauma. They actually -- the intensity becomes confusing. It becomes confused for love itself, and they will have -- they`ll have thoughts about what the perpetrator was doing, justifying it.

He loves me so much. He was so jealous because he loves me. I`m really the problem here. If I weren`t behaving that way. They feel ashamed, they feel responsible, but they bond to that trauma and they can`t let go.

COOMBS: But Dr. Drew, does that go toward child molesters?

PINSKY: No.

COOMBS: That`s a whole other area.

PINSKY: That`s where they went off the rail. I don`t know why they brought -- Katie, they had to go check every bizarre perversion off the list, and if they just kept it in the domestic violence vein, it would have fit with her physical abuse that they claimed in her childhood and it would all hung better. What do you say?

WICK: I agree with you. It was interesting. This weekend, I read in our big paper here that this was going to come out, and I couldn`t even finish it, Dr. Drew, because I got so sick to my stomach. Really? I mean, this is the lowest of the low that you can do to somebody. I mean, first of all, to throw your mom under the bus, then to put Travis under the bus, now to talk about him looking at naked pictures of boys.

And you know, you notice how they always say -- they always put the religion aspect with the sexual aspect right next to each other, say, for the book of Mormon, and then, they went into the car and had sex. And then, now he gave her a porcelain angel, and five minutes later, he was doing it (ph) on the bed. It`s almost too much.

COOMBS: Yes. Katie, do you think that`s playing to, perhaps, the Mormon jurors? I mean, I saw that, too. It`s always that very strong juxtaposition of something religious with something really extreme sexually.

WICK: I think it`s over the top. And I`m not Mormon, but I know -- I`m a Christian, and as a person of faith, I know that we`re not infallible. Nobody is infallible. So, actually, I think in a way, it`s going to help Travis in the sense that, look, everybody has their issues. Everybody has the sin in their lives, and Travis isn`t infallible. Why is Travis --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Got to take call. Tom in Virginia -- Tom.

TOM, VIRGINIA: This is unbelievable, Dr. Drew. This is like a runaway train. She`s out of control. The court is out of control. I think I speak for a lot of Americans when I hope that prosecutor should be able to jump in and do something because the family shouldn`t be smeared this way. It`s all (INAUDIBLE). Ninety percent of it.

(CROSSTALK)

COOMBS: I agree with you. And Tom, I agree with you. And it was interesting. Today, the prosecutor actually did start objecting and trying to cut some of this off and the judge just said overruled.

PINSKY: The judge does not want any possibility of appeal later? Is that --

COOMBS: Yes. Just kind of what Lisa Bloom said earlier. It`s a death penalty case. We`re going to let the defense do whatever they want to do, which I think is egregious. I don`t think that`s --

PINSKY: Tom, call back more often. I think you speak on behalf of a lot of people. But Jacob, you know, Jacob, you`re still hanging in there with Jodi, right?

WHITEHURST: You know, I think the sex and the religion, Mormonism specifically, go hand in hand. I think that what the Mormonism preaches with the restrictions on sexuality creates a taboo that almost forces the people who are belonging to the church to want to go after it even more because it`s off limits.

PINSKY: I will tell you, that doesn`t really -- I don`t think that really happens, but it might force it underground. And in that sense, that may be right, and that may be the case they`re going to try to build. Listen, Katie and Jacob, I thank you so much for being here. No doubt, we will check in with you again. Please giving us what your impressions on the courtroom.

And it`s fascinating hearing the male and female difference. And, again, I appreciate you guys being here. We`re going to take a quick break and we`ll be back with Lonnie after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I am back with Loni Coombs, former prosecutor who`s here with me all week. We`ll be looking into the Jodi Arias trial. I want to take a quick call from Carolyn in Pennsylvania -- Carolyn.

CAROLYN, PENNSYLVANIA: Now, Dr. Drew, are we going to have a Johnnie Cochran moment here if the spideys (ph) don`t fit, you must acquit? Or is this attorney going to have her put on the spideys?

PINSKY: If the spidey --

COOMBS: Oh my goodness!

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: or you must acquit? Carolyn, I appreciate the humor in that, but I don`t think we`re going there. In fact, this whole -- the spidey underwear, Loni, is the whole thing that I think where they`re reaching and reaching, and I would imagine smart jurors would sort of see that.

COOMBS: Yes, I mean, you know, that`s common relationship. You kind of joke around about things. There`s nothing apparently devious or evil about a pair of, you know, Spiderman. I mean, we saw it in "Charlie`s Angels." It was cute.

PINSKY: And by the way, she said -- what did he say, he said I looked hot.

COOMBS: Yes. Oh, oh. Yes.


PINSKY: Now, there was reference to the thousand places to go before you buy book. I see you holding it there.

COOMBS: I have this -- I actually have one of this at home, too. And it was so interesting when she said that they were going to go to all these places because Travis had this list and he wanted to go to places, then she said the title was "A Thousand Places To See Before You Die" and then I think it kind of hit her, she realized what she was saying and how eerie that is as she just brought that up.

PINSKY: We`re going to -- you and -- Travis, you and I will head on through it all those places before you die.

COOMBS: Yes.

PINSKY: This whole thing is -- this is an unsavory case, it really is. I`m surprised it`s gone as far as it has, frankly.

COOMBS: Well, yes. And she talked about all the list -- he had the list of where he wanted to go. He had these lists of sexual fantasies. I mean, you know, according to Jodi, Travis had lots of lists.

PINSKY: Well, now, listen, we`re going to watch this again tomorrow. Do you think the judge is going to begin to clamp down at all on this?

COOMBS: I don`t know. She surely doesn`t seem inclined to, and you know, a lot of judges are really worried about being overturned on appeal, and especially in death penalty cases, they do tend to be very generous with letting the defense go on and on. Honestly, I don`t think -- I don`t see her pulling back at all.

PINSKY: When do you think the cross examination, next week sometime?

COOMBS: I`m going to say two or three days because we saw the sex tape.

PINSKY: OK, guys. Thank you all for watching. Thanks for those who call. Thank you to my guests. Thank you, Loni, as well. We`ll see you tomorrow. "Nancy Grace" starts, guess what, right now.

END


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loca
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« Reply #189 on: February 12, 2013, 05:19:44 PM »

not much open discussion on this case?
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« Reply #190 on: February 12, 2013, 06:47:10 PM »

not much open discussion on this case?
i know. Kind of surprising. I will discuss it with u loca Smile if i was on that jury i would know shes lying just by the simple fact that noone remembers that much detail from 5 years ago. I bet if u asked her what she was wearing or what she ate that day she could tell u. This slut deserves to rot in prison first & in hell later. I hope the jury is not hesitant to convict simply because they dont want to sentence someone to death row. I would be happy just to see her get life without parole. Do they have that option?j
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« Reply #191 on: February 12, 2013, 07:30:40 PM »

I think Jodi is trying to paint Travis Alexander as a deviant (pedophile) because right now it's in the news everywhere as abhorrent, like the Sandusky cases, the Boy Scouts, the Catholic Church and Jimmy Savile, to name a few.  She's trying to take the emphasis of evil off of her and attempting to transfer it on to him.  After all, it's  really Jodi on trial, not Travis, isn't it?  How else can she justify stabbing him repeatedly, slitting his neck from ear to ear and shooting him in the face?  Was anything found on his computer or in his home that shows he had a penchant for little boys?  It would be hard to take the word of a multiple, serial liar like Jodi.     JMHO

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« Reply #192 on: February 12, 2013, 07:54:13 PM »

Jodi Arias Takes the Stand and Says She Killed Travis Alexander, Planned Suicide
Feb. 4, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-tells-jury-killed-alexander-planned-kill/story?id=18399979


Jodi Arias Describes Sexual Encounter Week After Meeting Travis Alexander
Feb. 5, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-describes-sexual-encounter-week-meeting-travis/story?id=18411629


Jodi Arias Said Travis Alexander Had 'Bill Clinton' View of Sex
Feb. 6, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-boyfriend-travis-alexander-bill-clinton-view/story?id=18420949


Jodi Arias Alleges Travis Alexander Became Violent After Admitting Attraction to Boys
Feb. 11, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-alleges-boyfriend-turned-boys-spiderman-underwear/story?id=18465253


Jodi Arias Said She Liked 'Debasing' Phone Sex Talk With Ex-Boyfriend
Feb. 12, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-phone-sex-tape-shows-raunchy-relationship/story?id=18477130
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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
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« Reply #193 on: February 12, 2013, 09:19:39 PM »

Kcrn
 She is totaly off the hook with her lies! I think that tape made her look bad! To think that her dad did not want to be in there speaks volumes. I hope she doesn't get manslaughter! I doubt she will get the DP now but manslaughter would be an insult.
She was very intrusive! Inviting herself to many of his functions and trips! She wasn't one to take a hint !
that he and his friends did not want her there. She was the sex aggressor! Even before Travis body was discovered she drove to Utah to aggressively crawl on top of another guy! Nymphomaniac had just had hours of sex with Travis. Who does that pleeeze!!

I've been catching up here and the caylee daily
Thanks to muffybee and her great updates.
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« Reply #194 on: February 12, 2013, 10:43:14 PM »

She is a ho...can't stand her
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« Reply #195 on: February 12, 2013, 11:38:26 PM »

Kcrn
 She is totaly off the hook with her lies! I think that tape made her look bad! To think that her dad did not want to be in there speaks volumes. I hope she doesn't get manslaughter! I doubt she will get the DP now but manslaughter would be an insult.
She was very intrusive! Inviting herself to many of his functions and trips! She wasn't one to take a hint !
that he and his friends did not want her there. She was the sex aggressor! Even before Travis body was discovered she drove to Utah to aggressively crawl on top of another guy! Nymphomaniac had just had hours of sex with Travis. Who does that pleeeze!!

I've been catching up here and the caylee daily
Thanks to muffybee and her great updates.
If she gets manslaughter they may as well give a complete not guilty verdict.this is so obviously a case of a psycho that got dumped, hated him for it & planned her revenge. Someone that can murder that heinously has been evil with some screws loose for a long time. Its unfortunate for him that he was lured into her sex trap & then got caught in the shower defenseless. She knew exactly what she was doing. It probably made her even angrier that he had one last romp with her & still was not planning to call off his trip with another woman. I believe he probably told her that their night or whatever time they spent together that weekend having sex did not change anything & she snapped & went to the plan. Maybe she thought she could keep him by seducing him again & if it didnt work then she would kill him. This was not self defense by any stretch & i dont believe it was a crime of passion. The gun was there for a reason.
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« Reply #196 on: February 13, 2013, 09:39:17 AM »

Kcrn
 She is totaly off the hook with her lies! I think that tape made her look bad! To think that her dad did not want to be in there speaks volumes. I hope she doesn't get manslaughter! I doubt she will get the DP now but manslaughter would be an insult.
She was very intrusive! Inviting herself to many of his functions and trips! She wasn't one to take a hint !
that he and his friends did not want her there. She was the sex aggressor! Even before Travis body was discovered she drove to Utah to aggressively crawl on top of another guy! Nymphomaniac had just had hours of sex with Travis. Who does that pleeeze!!

I've been catching up here and the caylee daily
Thanks to muffybee and her great updates.
If she gets manslaughter they may as well give a complete not guilty verdict.this is so obviously a case of a psycho that got dumped, hated him for it & planned her revenge. Someone that can murder that heinously has been evil with some screws loose for a long time. Its unfortunate for him that he was lured into her sex trap & then got caught in the shower defenseless. She knew exactly what she was doing. It probably made her even angrier that he had one last romp with her & still was not planning to call off his trip with another woman. I believe he probably told her that their night or whatever time they spent together that weekend having sex did not change anything & she snapped & went to the plan. Maybe she thought she could keep him by seducing him again & if it didnt work then she would kill him. This was not self defense by any stretch & i dont believe it was a crime of passion. The gun was there for a reason.

(Bolded by me)

I agree.  Not a crime of passion.
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« Reply #197 on: February 13, 2013, 09:40:42 AM »

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/jodi-arias-testifies-assaulted-broke-fingers-testimony-18474721
Jodi Arias Testifies Ex Assaulted Her, Broke Her Fingers
The woman who is accused of killing her ex-boyfriend continues her testimony

February 13, 2013

Video 2:05

Transcript for Jodi Arias Testifies Ex Assaulted Her, Broke Her Fingers

But we begin with the breakup murder trial. Jodi arias was on the stand again yesterday, with another new charge against her victim. This time, she said her ex-boyfriend once assaulted her and broke... SEE MORE at link...
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« Reply #198 on: February 13, 2013, 09:44:32 AM »

After watching Casey Anthony's trial, I just can't make myself sit and watch this one.     I see enough through video clips, transcripts and articles to make my blood boil as it is.     I tried watching some of Jodi Arias's trial and it brings back too many memories of the injustices from Caylee's death and cover up.  So much lying and legal b.s.     JMHO 
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« Reply #199 on: February 13, 2013, 03:01:14 PM »

Jodi Arias Testifies Ex Assaulted Her, Broke Her Fingers yes but
One of  Travis Alexander 's friends came on the show last night and said that Jodi is a very good liar and also said that her finger got broken when she killed  Travis Alexander.
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Woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself.
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