Lively Case Discussion #504 7/31 - 8/3/2006

[San]

Joran: What do you think, that you are going home to get your gun?
Satish: That I have a gun.
Joran: Satish, you, get gun at home, me shoot you two dead.
Satish: Look, the police already went to my house and already investigated [searched] the house. Did they find a gun? What will she get? ["Wat zal zij krijgen." The word 'zij' is for the word 'she' or for 'they', but they use the singular verb for 'will', therefore'she']
Deepak: (to Joran) Sometimes, you talk bullshit, right?
Joran: (to Deepak) Why is that shit not true? Witnesses saw you.
Satish: In the end we will see, who gets out and who stays. You tell the truth, we shall see.
Joran: I know that I'm getting out.
Brothers: We shall see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
---------------
Joran is the one who was detained an additional 60 days.  Satish tells Joran to just tell the truth.  I don't think either of the kalpoes shot her.  Maybe Joran did with the Kalpoe gun?

And maybe the Kalpoes have the gun with Joran's prints on it.  We always thought the Kalpoes have something on Joran.

[Carnut]

Gosh! I feel like we are slow as molasses tonight.  We need some new info and quick.  Anyone into the tango? (sorry I couldn't resist)

You just want me to leave don't you?

I like to tango & cha cha, but I also like the bunnyhop & the chicken dance.  LOL.

As far as Shango & Simian, I prefer Simian. Shango was just playing mind games, imo.

Well, I've done my share of tango & cha cha.

Never did do the bunnyhop that I can remember, did sit on the gym floor and watch it on occasion.

Don't think I've ever officially seen the chicken dance.

[Whodunit?]

.
Speaking of Michael Posner, How does anyone ever do a search on these characters when they have so many different names!  

>>
Casino boss Michael Posner denies that he knows van der Sloot and denies ever extending him casino credit. Posner's lawyer Allan Ackerman says Posner was in Chicago when Holloway vanished and returned to Aruba the day after.

Now 64 years old, here's the intelligence report on Michael William Posner:


aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.


his family still resides in Riverwoods.

his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions.

Posner says it was he who voluntarily turned over this casino surveillance tape to Aruban authorities and that he is furious they have allowed ABC News to broadcast it.

Posner says he has paid the expenses for private investigators to come here and assist in the search for Holloway and according to his lawyer: "He has nothin' to do with nothing" in the murder case.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=i...tive&id=3936339


.

GOLDSTEIN!!!  HOLEY MOLEY ANNA....I think you have just possibly answered some nagging questions that has plagued me for months....NOW THINGS MIGHT BE FALLING IN PLACE !!  GOLDSTEIN..uummmmm now where do we know that name from... ....secret sources that can't be told....same last name.....HOLEY MLOEY!!!

I am totally picking up what you are putting down, Sunny!  Think there's a connection, or just coincidence??????

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

Good nite Monks! Final sweep!

[AZLady]

sunny, you've lost me.  I don't recognize the "same last name."  Who else is Goldstein?

[Carnut]

sunny, you've lost me.  I don't recognize the "same last name."  Who else is Goldstein?

Same here, don't have clue what's being alluded to.

[Lala'sMom]

Gosh! BOC really knows how to leave a room.

Okay, so no tangoing tonight.  Too bad.  Guess I will take my leave also.  See you monkeys later. Hugs to Nemo.  BTW wonder where CP405 has been lately.  I have missed her and also I hope if Misgivings is reading this she knows I hope she is okay in this hot weather.  I miss her too.  Geez, now I am going to bed depressed.  

[AZLady]

I just wondered if anyone thinks it unusual that Joran says, out of the blue, when talking about going home,  What do you think, that you are going home to get your gun?  Why does he even mention a gun and that Satish has one at home?  It seems like he is reminding Satish that he knows this--that Satish has a gun.  He's holding the information over his head like blackmail.  

The entire conversation seems to me like they are reminding each other of what information they have against each other.  In this case, and on this island, information is used against someone--a sort of emotional blackmail.  If someone doesn't do what he/she is told to do or agreed to do, then the person who holds the "information" against them will tell.  This is one more piece of information that Joran is reminding the brothers that he holds against Satish and uses to control Deepak.  Just possessing a gun, however, is not enough to control someone.  I think Joran is reminding Satish and Deepak that he knows what they did with Satish's gun.

[SunFreak2]

---------------
Joran is the one who was detained an additional 60 days.  Satish tells Joran to just tell the truth.  I don't think either of the kalpoes shot her.  Maybe Joran did with the Kalpoe gun?

And maybe the Kalpoes have the gun with Joran's prints on it.  We always thought the Kalpoes have something on Joran.

Could be!  Maybe Joran found the gun on the floor as it slid out from under the front seat of the car.  And then he shot her as she was trying to run away.  I would think it would have to be somewhere remote like Arashi beach or the pond where no one would have heard the shot.  If it had happened at the Sloot home that noise would have been heard.  I guess it could have happened at the huts, but the fisherman might have heard it or not heard it b/c of the wind & surf.  I wonder if we will ever know the truth.  

[AZLady]

---------------
Joran is the one who was detained an additional 60 days.  Satish tells Joran to just tell the truth.  I don't think either of the kalpoes shot her.  Maybe Joran did with the Kalpoe gun?

And maybe the Kalpoes have the gun with Joran's prints on it.  We always thought the Kalpoes have something on Joran.

Could be!  Maybe Joran found the gun on the floor as it slid out from under the front seat of the car.  And then he shot her as she was trying to run away.  I would think it would have to be somewhere remote like Arashi beach or the pond where no one would have heard the shot.  If it had happened at the Sloot home that noise would have been heard.  I guess it could have happened at the huts, but the fisherman might have heard it or not heard it b/c of the wind & surf.  I wonder if we will ever know the truth.  

Sun, you may be right.  I think Joran did shoot Natalee with Satish's gun and somehow has convinced the 2K's that if this is discovered, Satish will be blamed as it is his gun.  Would this explain the amount of blood the FBI said was in the car?  On the headliner?   I honestly don't think anyone would take notice of a single shot heard in the middle of the night on that island, no matter where it was fired.

[SunFreak2]

G'nite y'all.  Pleasant dreams.

[Port Valerie]

Slow night. I've kept a SM tab open and have looked in now and then. Now it's goodnight. I do wonder about that gun, though. It's never been discussed much, except maybe here. Wonder what the rules regarding handguns are in / on Aruba? Well, goodnight.

[AZLady]

Night, Port Valerie.  This has me intrigued, too.  The gun is brought up by Joran, and I think it's the only time during this whole case that a weapon is mentioned.  Very strange, huh?

[SunFreak2]

Sun, you may be right.  I think Joran did shoot Natalee with Satish's gun and somehow has convinced the 2K's that if this is discovered, Satish will be blamed as it is his gun.  Would this explain the amount of blood the FBI said was in the car?  On the headliner?   I honestly don't think anyone would take notice of a single shot heard in the middle of the night on that island, no matter where it was fired.

If someone is shot point blank, there would be copius amounts of blood in the car.  If the wound was to the head there would be bone & other tissue as well.  There would definitely be spatter on the head liner, seats, windows, etc.  If it was that close though, the bullet would probably travel thru the person and lodge elsewhere.  Maybe it was an acidental firing from playing around with a gun while drunk and showing off.  Somehow, I don't think a gun was fired while they were inside the car though, if at all.  I would think if it was accidental firing, they could make it look like it was done accidentally by the person who was killed (fingerprints, gun powder residue, etc) unless the trajectory would be really out of kilter with a self-imposed shot.  That would be a good reason for a coverup though - a gunshot wound that couldn't be explained away.

[Port Valerie]

Yes, AZ. It makes me notice that there's very little mention of guns or shooting in any of the Aruba crime stories. I wonder if guns are prevalent, as they are here, or if they are somewhat rare.

I think it might just be kids spouting off, though. I need to read the entire conversation in the car from start to finish to get the feel of it. Maybe tomorrow. G'night.

[AZLady]

Found on the Aruba - Consular Information Sheet for November 8, 2001 at http://lists.state.gov/SCRIPTS/WA-USIAINFO.EXE?A2=ind0111b&L=dostravel&P=78


CRIMINAL PENALTIES: While in a foreign country, a U.S. citizen is subject to that country's laws and regulations, which sometimes differ significantly
from those in the United States and may not afford the protections available to the individual under U.S. law.  Penalties for breaking the law can be more severe than in the United States for similar offenses.  Persons violating Aruba's laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested or imprisoned.  Penalties for possession, use, or trafficking in illegal drugs in Aruba are strict, and convicted offenders can expect jail sentences and heavy fines.  Aruba has strict gun control laws; even a stray bullet in a suitcase can trigger a fine or time in jail.

However, this comment is preceded by the statement that Penalties for possession, use, or trafficking in illegal drugs in Aruba are strict, and convicted offenders can expect jail sentences and heavy fines.  Judging by what we've seen so far, I don't think anyone will get too excited if Satish has a gun somewhere.  After all, the BIL of the former Chief of Police is a known drug dealer, and he still plies his trade on the beach.

[Port Valerie]

That was a fast look-up! I agree with your analysis. Their rule book is a big yawn.

I'm looking for the quote by Mickey Spillane -- something about, 'when things get too slow I have a guy with a gun enter the room.' It's not relevant. You just made me think of it.
 

[AZLady]

That was a fast look-up! I agree with your analysis. Their rule book is a big yawn.

I'm looking for the quote by Mickey Spillane -- something about, 'when things get too slow I have a guy with a gun enter the room.' It's not relevant. You just made me think of it.
 

Ha ha!     Well, this gun certainly scattered the last of the Monkeys tonight!  Guess we'll save it for tomorrow.
Night.

[Port Valerie]

Well, can't find the Mickey Spillane quote. Time toturn off the lights.

[robots]

Reporter: Right, you lied because you were scared.

Joran van der Sloot: Yes, because I didn’t want to admit to leaving her alone at the beach.



       


if she was not DRUNK, why would he be scared to leave a girl alone on the beach ??

WHAT A LOAD OF BS from JORANMONSTER