Lively Case Discussion #504 7/31 - 8/3/2006

[SunFreak2]

Ono:

Well, just suing to "clear your name" would be excellent starters for these two men and it appears so far that there is not an Aruban attorney who feels up to the challenge. That is a shame...where, oh where, are their original attorneys now? Surely they know they have a good case for "false arrest"...? The lack of legal representation in this matter is begging attention and something I do not understand.

Besides a "lack of money" -- they also must weigh the "consequences" of bringing suit. The Dutch would probably trump up some other charges against them or they could end up "Canashito-ed" or something. Better to keep quiet.

However, I remember when they were first arrested...they had excellent representation...(at least one did...the impressive attorney was Tim, the brother of Helen Lejuez......I feel certain he sees the legal and moral reasoning behind suing to reclaim his client's good name, regardless of his client's race)...I think his client was Mickey, FOM's friend.

I read somewhere that Joe Mammana is helping these 2 men with their legal expenses.  I have no idea why they have not been cleared as suspects yet.

[thirdstrike]

Mickey John and Abraham Jones have not sued Aruba because they know better. Just like the gang-raped and videoed minor-girl whose only options are to flee or remain silent. It is an instinctual response by victims who know that the 'system' is not available for their use.

It was Mickey himself who stated that Paulus was instrumental in creating the HI lie during a pool-side meeting with J2K. Words which clearly held zero value to the judge who then proceeds to gift Paulus monetarily. Message sent.

Actually, they can't sue because they are still 'suspects'.

Well then, did I hear that Joran also gained some kind of "award" by the courts?  Or, was that for his book deal??  I forget sometimes...

[SunFreak2]

Read about the monetary award to pappa....hahaha...what a slap in the face to him.....heck his kid got nearly as much as he did...so his 'worth' is about 2 grand more than a 17yo  ooopppsssssss gotta pay those attorney fees

Why was Joran given the $26K when he was released from prison? Is it a rumor or is it a fact?  I remember Joran saying he got money, but most of what comes out of his mouth is not true.

[ala_gunslinger]

Mickey John and Abraham Jones have not sued Aruba because they know better. Just like the gang-raped and videoed minor-girl whose only options are to flee or remain silent. It is an instinctual response by victims who know that the 'system' is not available for their use.

It was Mickey himself who stated that Paulus was instrumental in creating the HI lie during a pool-side meeting with J2K. Words which clearly held zero value to the judge who then proceeds to gift Paulus monetarily. Message sent.

Actually, they can't sue because they are still 'suspects'.

Well then, did I hear that Joran also gained some kind of "award" by the courts?  Or, was that for his book deal??  I forget sometimes...

Hi XXX!  IIRC, he received no 'reward' by the courts.

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

I need to get back to work but I wanted you all to see this classic post by HAMMER on the front page:

HAMMER WROTE:

PLAYING AT JUSTICE

Why do they bother with the endless pantomime? Why go through the motions, at all? Justice on Aruba is a masquerade, a facade. Something that seems and appears “real” — but is actually empty, and twisted — and not what it seems to be, in any way.

Why not just dispense with the game? Why pour energy and money into this strange theatre?

Why not just end it. Aruba should say that they never had any intention of delivering “justice” to the HT Family and Natalee Ann Holloway’s memory. There was never going to be a conviction for abduction, rape and murder. It was never going to happen, because the Aruban Justice System is not a “judiciary” in any way, form or shape.

And that is because “justice” does not exist on Aruba — only her costumed shadow is there.

This is it exactly.

Hammer I agree with you 100%.  Id agree even more if it was possible.  Aruba does not have a judicial system, just a bunch of corrupt business men(legal and illegal business) sitting around in Lions Clubs, smoking cigars, cutting shady deals, washing money and figuring who they are gonna screw for their next dollar.  They have a Polis farce that does all the dirty work, and some corrupt judges that enable their shady deals illegal and immoral behavior.  These scumbags didnt even take the death of Natalee seriously - one of the boys went a little too far.  No big deal, get rid of the evidence and carry on.  They already knew the typical Aruban citizen is either too high on drugs or do not have the balls to stand up and question them.   I blame the people of Aruba just as much as the criminals they enable with their heads buried in the sand.

THAT WOULD BE LIONS DENS NOT LIONS CLUBS! VERY BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

Mickey John and Abraham Jones have not sued Aruba because they know better. Just like the gang-raped and videoed minor-girl whose only options are to flee or remain silent. It is an instinctual response by victims who know that the 'system' is not available for their use.

It was Mickey himself who stated that Paulus was instrumental in creating the HI lie during a pool-side meeting with J2K. Words which clearly held zero value to the judge who then proceeds to gift Paulus monetarily. Message sent.

There would be no justice for the security guards and they know it!! Just lay low and keep quite and we will not bother you, but if you open your mouth you will take the fall!!!  

[Ono]

Ono:

Well, just suing to "clear your name" would be excellent starters for these two men and it appears so far that there is not an Aruban attorney who feels up to the challenge. That is a shame...where, oh where, are their original attorneys now? Surely they know they have a good case for "false arrest"...? The lack of legal representation in this matter is begging attention and something I do not understand.

Besides a "lack of money" -- they also must weigh the "consequences" of bringing suit. The Dutch would probably trump up some other charges against them or they could end up "Canashito-ed" or something. Better to keep quiet.

However, I remember when they were first arrested...they had excellent representation...(at least one did...the impressive attorney was Tim, the brother of Helen Lejuez......I feel certain he sees the legal and moral reasoning behind suing to reclaim his client's good name, regardless of his client's race)...I think his client was Mickey, FOM's friend.

I read somewhere that Joe Mammana is helping these 2 men with their legal expenses.  I have no idea why they have not been cleared as suspects yet.

Their clearing their names as suspects is so long overdue. I do wonder why Tim Lejuez has not stepped up to the plate for his client so far, or perhaps he has and we just do not know of it yet -- things not related to whitewashing Joran, etc. on Aruba are so secretive..  Mr. Lejuez seemed to represent MJ very well when they were originally charged, so maybe he still is? Hopefully so.

[Carnut]

Read about the monetary award to pappa....hahaha...what a slap in the face to him.....heck his kid got nearly as much as he did...so his 'worth' is about 2 grand more than a 17yo  ooopppsssssss gotta pay those attorney fees

Why was Joran given the $26K when he was released from prison? Is it a rumor or is it a fact?  I remember Joran saying he got money, but most of what comes out of his mouth is not true.

Yeah, even back then JVDS new the reward was coming and even had an idea how much the family was gonna get, even though it was awarded to PVDS.

[Carnut]

Ono:

Well, just suing to "clear your name" would be excellent starters for these two men and it appears so far that there is not an Aruban attorney who feels up to the challenge. That is a shame...where, oh where, are their original attorneys now? Surely they know they have a good case for "false arrest"...? The lack of legal representation in this matter is begging attention and something I do not understand.

Besides a "lack of money" -- they also must weigh the "consequences" of bringing suit. The Dutch would probably trump up some other charges against them or they could end up "Canashito-ed" or something. Better to keep quiet.

However, I remember when they were first arrested...they had excellent representation...(at least one did...the impressive attorney was Tim, the brother of Helen Lejuez......I feel certain he sees the legal and moral reasoning behind suing to reclaim his client's good name, regardless of his client's race)...I think his client was Mickey, FOM's friend.

I read somewhere that Joe Mammana is helping these 2 men with their legal expenses.  I have no idea why they have not been cleared as suspects yet.

Their clearing their names as suspects is so long overdue. I do wonder why Tim Lejuez has not stepped up to the plate for his client so far, or perhaps he has and we just do not know of it yet -- things not related to whitewashing Joran, etc. on Aruba are so secretive..  Mr. Lejuez seemed to represent MJ very well when they were originally charged, so maybe he still is? Hopefully so.

Doubt the guards are getting any monetary help.

BOC is right they just need to STFU and sit tight.

They aren't Dutch and really have no choice.

[San]

Mickey John and Abraham Jones have not sued Aruba because they know better. Just like the gang-raped and videoed minor-girl whose only options are to flee or remain silent. It is an instinctual response by victims who know that the 'system' is not available for their use.

It was Mickey himself who stated that Paulus was instrumental in creating the HI lie during a pool-side meeting with J2K. Words which clearly held zero value to the judge who then proceeds to gift Paulus monetarily. Message sent.

There would be no justice for the security guards and they know it!! Just lay low and keep quite and we will not bother you, but if you open your mouth you will take the fall!!!  

Exactly.  They had a backup plan regarding the security guards.

[Ono]

I also seripusly doubt the guards are receiving any monetary help, however, somehow MJ WAS able to hire Tim Lejuez in the first place and I would think that out of simple interest in his client's welfare, Lejuez must still be keeping tabs on the situation.  Lejuez did not strike me as being corrupt during his interviews.

[SunnyinTX]

honestly I wish Jossy could get the warden's phone number to Red and Dana, let them interview him on a podcast........what a SCOOP to coin Renfro's phrase

How true...but he would most likely need to re-locate first and have a new identity.

Hi Ono....you are certainly not joking there.....I just 'know' ther are peole who know things that would nail those basxxrds....but too fearful to speak out....

[terryd270]

Does anyone know if John Q. Kelly might be on one of the stations tonight?  How can anyone want to go to Aruba?  Why would people want to be misled; manupulated, and used. like you bought a product that was advertised one way, and turns out to be another. they discard tourist after they rape and kill them..  I feel sad..  I just hope the world will expect more than that from that little dirty island..

[SunnyinTX]

Because, once they end it, Klaas ~ isn't our goverment allowed a shot then at investigating the crime?

I don't think Aruba wants that...

I don't think so either...not becasue of what they would find out about who did what to Natalee...but find out more of the undrcurrect, the people who are making the money....crimes, drugs, money laundering, sex, porn, child porn...all the backbone of  aruba

[SunnyinTX]

Sunny, There's 3 different .pdf files...  they're kinda large...  1.7mb, 1.8mb and 1.9mb...

I'm sending 3 different emails...

Thanks Katz...I have received them and will NOT lose them again

[Ono]

honestly I wish Jossy could get the warden's phone number to Red and Dana, let them interview him on a podcast........what a SCOOP to coin Renfro's phrase

How true...but he would most likely need to re-locate first and have a new identity.

Hi Ono....you are certainly not joking there.....I just 'know' ther are peole who know things that would nail those basxxrds....but too fearful to speak out....

Yes...there's the rub.

[terryd270]

One of my observations of things I seen and heard on this case.. Don't you hate it when someone is lying, and you know that they are lying, but you play along with it anyway, and they think that you are not playing, and they don't know that you know they are lying, but you know that playing along with it is better than calling them on their lie, which would be so much worse?  I think thats what we were seeing a lot of..  I'm still mad at that island for making Beth appoligised to the suspects that killed and raped her daughter..  Why didn't someone help her???  There will be no justice coming out of Aruba or Holland..

[SunnyinTX]

Ono:

Well, just suing to "clear your name" would be excellent starters for these two men and it appears so far that there is not an Aruban attorney who feels up to the challenge. That is a shame...where, oh where, are their original attorneys now? Surely they know they have a good case for "false arrest"...? The lack of legal representation in this matter is begging attention and something I do not understand.

Besides a "lack of money" -- they also must weigh the "consequences" of bringing suit. The Dutch would probably trump up some other charges against them or they could end up "Canashito-ed" or something. Better to keep quiet.

Hi Wreck...I agree.....they have be frightened each and every day....

[friend of monkeys]

Ono:

Well, just suing to "clear your name" would be excellent starters for these two men and it appears so far that there is not an Aruban attorney who feels up to the challenge. That is a shame...where, oh where, are their original attorneys now? Surely they know they have a good case for "false arrest"...? The lack of legal representation in this matter is begging attention and something I do not understand.

Besides a "lack of money" -- they also must weigh the "consequences" of bringing suit. The Dutch would probably trump up some other charges against them or they could end up "Canashito-ed" or something. Better to keep quiet.

However, I remember when they were first arrested...they had excellent representation...(at least one did...the impressive attorney was Tim, the brother of Helen Lejuez......I feel certain he sees the legal and moral reasoning behind suing to reclaim his client's good name, regardless of his client's race)...I think his client was Mickey, FOM's friend.

I read somewhere that Joe Mammana is helping these 2 men with their legal expenses.  I have no idea why they have not been cleared as suspects yet.

hey all...just popping in....MJ is still working on it i guess but Joe Mammmana is not inviolved as far as i know.....

anything on tonite on case?   tia

[SunnyinTX]

So, let's get this party statred Mama Sloot says to Daddy Sloot.
Scene opens :
Papa is sweating.
Mama is wearing a see thru outfit with a NEW bra.
The little dough boy has five ice creams stuck in his nose and mouth.
Joran has his new blonde chiquita and they are drink' and dancin'.

Valentijn is recording this for posterity.
The dogs are nervous ! Very ! !
The phone rang  with congratulations !
The Renfro Reptile band is rockin'
Scuba and Medley are So excitied. Everyone is so NICE.

hahahahaha...love it all...but particularly the renfro (name doesn't deserve capitalization ) Reptile band!!