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Author Topic: Monkey Playground - Come Join Us! (New Name Same Old Place)  (Read 647604 times)
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Brandi
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« Reply #1000 on: October 21, 2013, 06:30:40 PM »


Aw  she is beautiful.

Try the Thunder vests...they work for storm anxiety as well as separation anxiety.

Thanks, for the suggestion, 4 Donks. We tried the thunder vest, and it worked for a while. Now, it is ineffective.

 


I am so sorry to hear that Brandi is having separation anxiety. Poor girl. I wish I had some idea that would help but I was going to suggest the thunder vest like 4Donks did. Have you thought about recording your voice talking to her. And just playing on a loop so it just repeats over and over.  an angelic monkey

Hey, that's a great idea.

But Brandi is deaf.

LOL

Thanks for thinking about it for me though!

 
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Green Eyes
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« Reply #1001 on: October 21, 2013, 07:15:38 PM »


Aw  she is beautiful.

Try the Thunder vests...they work for storm anxiety as well as separation anxiety.

Thanks, for the suggestion, 4 Donks. We tried the thunder vest, and it worked for a while. Now, it is ineffective.

 


I am so sorry to hear that Brandi is having separation anxiety. Poor girl. I wish I had some idea that would help but I was going to suggest the thunder vest like 4Donks did. Have you thought about recording your voice talking to her. And just playing on a loop so it just repeats over and over.  an angelic monkey

Hey, that's a great idea.

But Brandi is deaf.

LOL

Thanks for thinking about it for me though!

 


  Some times I wonder where my brain has gone.  I know she is.  Sorry about that. How about taking an old sweater with your scent on it and putting on her over the thunder vest. Or going out like you are leaving and them come back in about 5 minutes. And keep making it a little longer each time. So she knows you will be coming back.
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Brandi
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« Reply #1002 on: October 21, 2013, 11:52:22 PM »

Thanks Green Eyes.

Hate to keep shooting down all your great suggestions regarding Brandi, but my scent is everywhere in this house. LOL

And we did the "leave the house for a short while" to desensitize Brandi shortly after we adopted her, and it did little good. After 13+ years here, with us leaving and coming back ...she should know by now we come back. Wink

Went out with son this evening and left Brandi with hubby. She and hubby are very close. He takes her for walks, takes her out first thing in the morning and many times during the evening when he gets home. He also gives her her daily treats when he gets home from work every day.  He told me she sat by the door and whined, barked, then paced from door to our bedroom, back and forth while I was out. He tried to get her to come back to the office here, but she wanted no such thing.

*sigh*

At least she wasn't as bad as I hear she is when son stays alone with her.

Poor baby.
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Green Eyes
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« Reply #1003 on: October 22, 2013, 12:22:25 AM »

Thanks Green Eyes.

Hate to keep shooting down all your great suggestions regarding Brandi, but my scent is everywhere in this house. LOL

And we did the "leave the house for a short while" to desensitize Brandi shortly after we adopted her, and it did little good. After 13+ years here, with us leaving and coming back ...she should know by now we come back. Wink

Went out with son this evening and left Brandi with hubby. She and hubby are very close. He takes her for walks, takes her out first thing in the morning and many times during the evening when he gets home. He also gives her her daily treats when he gets home from work every day.  He told me she sat by the door and whined, barked, then paced from door to our bedroom, back and forth while I was out. He tried to get her to come back to the office here, but she wanted no such thing.

*sigh*

At least she wasn't as bad as I hear she is when son stays alone with her.

Poor baby.

Keep shooting down Brandi. No problem.  Hopefully someone will come up with an idea.
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Green Eyes
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« Reply #1004 on: October 22, 2013, 02:19:49 AM »

Brandi  I found this site tonight looking around about dogs having anxiety. I don't know if it will help but I found very interesting. Thought you might get a couple ideas to help you & Brandi. 

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/separationanxiety.htm
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« Reply #1005 on: October 22, 2013, 11:07:18 AM »

Brandi  I found this site tonight looking around about dogs having anxiety. I don't know if it will help but I found very interesting. Thought you might get a couple ideas to help you & Brandi. 

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/separationanxiety.htm

That's a good article, thanks!

Appreciate the *other* info you sent to me. Maybe an herbal remedy is in order.

I did think of lavender, since it is supposed to have a calming effect.

I'll do some more research and see what I can try.

Thank you, Green Eyes!
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Green Eyes
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« Reply #1006 on: October 22, 2013, 02:01:49 PM »

Brandi  I found this site tonight looking around about dogs having anxiety. I don't know if it will help but I found very interesting. Thought you might get a couple ideas to help you & Brandi. 

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/separationanxiety.htm

That's a good article, thanks!

Appreciate the *other* info you sent to me. Maybe an herbal remedy is in order.

I did think of lavender, since it is supposed to have a calming effect.

I'll do some more research and see what I can try.

Thank you, Green Eyes!

Your Welcome Brandi. Hope it was some help.
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« Reply #1007 on: October 22, 2013, 03:21:27 PM »

Brandi  I found this site tonight looking around about dogs having anxiety. I don't know if it will help but I found very interesting. Thought you might get a couple ideas to help you & Brandi. 

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/separationanxiety.htm

That's a good article, thanks!

Appreciate the *other* info you sent to me. Maybe an herbal remedy is in order.

I did think of lavender, since it is supposed to have a calming effect.

I'll do some more research and see what I can try.

Thank you, Green Eyes!

Your Welcome Brandi. Hope it was some help.

Good afternoon,
Very good article -- however, each dog is so different so it is trial and error.  Nordie could have cared less if I left or not, as long as he had food and water.  Belle, on the other hand, is so different.  She assuredly suffered from separation anxiety.  I kennel her before I leave.  At first, she would cry, but now she doesn't.  I leave the kennel door open all the time and she often goes in there to sleep.  But with Brandi being such a sweet, older dog -- not sure this would work at all.  It's a shame the thunder vest didn't keep on working, as I have heard many folks say how great they are.
I will keep thinking too.
Blessings.
 
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« Reply #1008 on: October 23, 2013, 04:37:07 AM »

Brandi  I found this site tonight looking around about dogs having anxiety. I don't know if it will help but I found very interesting. Thought you might get a couple ideas to help you & Brandi.  

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/separationanxiety.htm

That's a good article, thanks!

Appreciate the *other* info you sent to me. Maybe an herbal remedy is in order.

I did think of lavender, since it is supposed to have a calming effect.

I'll do some more research and see what I can try.

Thank you, Green Eyes!

Your Welcome Brandi. Hope it was some help.

Good afternoon,
Very good article -- however, each dog is so different so it is trial and error.  Nordie could have cared less if I left or not, as long as he had food and water.  Belle, on the other hand, is so different.  She assuredly suffered from separation anxiety.  I kennel her before I leave.  At first, she would cry, but now she doesn't.  I leave the kennel door open all the time and she often goes in there to sleep.  But with Brandi being such a sweet, older dog -- not sure this would work at all.  It's a shame the thunder vest didn't keep on working, as I have heard many folks say how great they are.
I will keep thinking too.
Blessings.
 

Brandi, this is for children, so take what may help and leave the rest, or leave all of it.  As you may know, Temple Grandin, a professor with autism, invented the cattle shoot and she is a genius in handling animals in the position where there is the most severe anxiety, animals going to slaughter.  She may have some tips for you. She has autism and has related her condition to the animal's condition and it was a match.

Children with autism that have anxiety, often respond to the use of a weighted vest.  We also use weighted blankets or lap pads with some children as indicated.  In this case, small weights are sewn into little pockets you make yourself around a blanket, lap pad or vest or you can buy a weighted blanket.  There are pockets in the vest where weights can be added when they no longer respond to the snug fit alone, or the snug fit with lower weights.  I have found ankle weights in sporting goods stores that have varying degrees of weight in them.  The ones I used went all the way around the ankle and had little pockets in them.  One was a 5 lb. ankle weight.  There were 10 pockets around the ankle, each containing the cutest little rectangular pouch completely sewn up with 1/2 lb. of weight in each one.  They have ankle weights with 1/4 lb. weights in them.  It may have been sand inside.  I just re-read this.  I am not suggesting you put ankle weights on her, just make pockets and then add the little pouches.  Also, you can make varying degrees of weights to add to the blanket or vest using sand in plastic bags with material sewn around it.  (There are many materials you can use, it depends on what works (fish tank gravel, rice, etc. and it depends on if you want to remove them to wash them or not).  This way you can start with the smallest increment and work your way up until you have a match.

I use/d Southpaw, a company that offers DSI and other OT equipment in their catalogs.  There are also a plethora of articles on weighted vests and blankets on the internet and how to make them yourself.  If a vest worked with Brandi in the past, she may still respond to it as it sounds like her proprioceptive and/or vestibular senses were normalized by it in the first place. In other words, don't throw out the baby with the bath water, as my Grandmother would say.  Especially since Brandi has trouble with hearing now, this may have further knocked the vestibular sense out of whack and seems likely, she may simply need more pressure to know where her body is in space and calm down.  I would add pockets to the vest if possible and start adding little bits of weight in the pockets all around the vest if you think that is appropriate.

I put rice in a pair of my Dad's socks.  His nurse complained he was always folding his hands too tightly a lot of the day, which was causing bruising on the back of his hands.  I gave him a sock for each hand so he had something to squeeze.  He was on a blood thinner and this had caused a significant amount of damage.  She was not looking for my help, only looking to explain the bruises.  Bruises were gone after he did this for a week.

Keep experimenting with textures, weights, pressure, and slowly make changes.  Do not change 2 things at a time.  One thing may have worked without the other, but you will never know because you never tried.  Also, increase weights and pressures very gradually.

Maybe you can add a weighted lap pad inside the vest.

Have not worked with these companies:

Weighted collar
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Weighted+Collar&Form=R5FD2#view=detail&id=A77206EBC8150A2801E34E8753CD20B7882A8170&selectedIndex=33

Weighted blanket
http://www.sensorygoods.com/Weighted_Blankets_s/1827.htm

Weighted monkey
http://www.weightedblanketsplus.com/Weighted-Monkey-p/cb-weightedmonkey.htm

Maybe you can add a weighted lap pad inside the vest or on top of Brandi or the vest.
http://www.weightedblanketsplus.com/category-s/1821.htm

Make your own
http://steelady13.blogspot.com/2010/05/15-no-sew-weighted-lap-blanket.html
http://juniorglutenfreechefs.blogspot.com/2011/02/photo-tutorial-how-to-make-no-sew.html

Pictures
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=No+Sew+Weighted+Blanket&qpvt=No+Sew+Weighted+Blanket&FORM=IGRE

You can squirt these with lavender water if it helps.  Don't do this until Brandi has tried it without it first.  Try to make only one change at a time and in small increments.  You can make her anxious by throwing too many changes at her at once.

Best of luck, Brandi and Brandi!  If you can think of any way I can help, of if you have any questions on the things we have used, let me know.  Hope this helps everyone relax.  You may find out you want to lay down under a lavender-water scented weighted blanket and stay home yourself!

Something else I was thinking about is communication.  That is usually the number one thing we look for with a change in behavior.  Everything we do is behavior, I am not suggesting Brandi is doing anything wrong, this does not mean bad behavior.

Does she have a way to communicate to you that is different from the others?  Do you have a way of communicating to her that is different than the others?  I would suggest you have someone observe you and the rest of the family interact with Brandi, try to do the same exact thing you do all the time.  At the end of the day/s, however long you wish to make the observation, see how many times she has come to each one of you, what she wants from each one, what you do when she comes to you and then what is the result of what you do.

     Person          Antecedent                   Behavior                               Consequence
     Mom             Wanted a Treat             Put paw on Mom's leg            Mom gave me a biscuit.  (Desired outcome)
     Dad              Wanted a Treat             Put paw on Dad's leg             Dad took Brandi for a walk.  (Not a desired outcome, although
                                                                                                         nice)


You can make this as simple or as complicated as you like.  You may be able to read Brandi's wishes better than others.  Let everyone else in on ways you communicate they may not see.  For at least the first day, do not make any changes in your behavior.  This is the control and it is very important that you don't make any adjustments to it.  Consequence does not mean punishment, it means what happened as a direct result of the behavior (what Brandi did, not good or bad behavior, just what her performance was).  Antecedent is what happened before this action, e.g. she hasn't eaten in a while, Mom is leaving, the neighbor's cat came in the house, she did not sleep well, etc.

Good luck.

 

      

(wrote was, s.b. wash)

« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 12:39:28 PM by Bearlyhere » Logged

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« Reply #1009 on: October 23, 2013, 05:00:56 AM »





Brandi, that was a labor of love and came out of my head, it was not from a website, just a menagerie of things that worked that I have had experience with in the past.  You have to pull this and push that, then tweak this and throw that our entirely.  Then try it again another way.  The most important thing is to change things slowly and one at a time.  You know when your feet hurt really badly, then you get off of them, those dogs are really screaming now.  Should you just remain on your feet?  Will that fix it?  It was not getting off your feet that caused pain, it was walking around all day that did it.  That may also happen, (I don't mean pain, just a weird feeling) so if it doesn't work, unless she has a horrid abreaction, try it again or keep doing it to make sure it is not just 'let down; my word for what happens when I let my self sit down and greater pain results.

I apologize for being so wordy, but I really hate to see anyone or any animal suffer.  My friend's dog was that way.  She rescues older bassets.  I think deep inside she thought it was cute.  Luckily, he tolerated me and I would go over and sit with him.  Really, that was not the solution.  He drove her renters absolutely nuts.  It was non-stop and unless you experience it yourself, you have no idea how nerve-wracking it is.  It was relentless (it being the noise, not the dog) and drove the neighbors nuts for many reasons.  No one wants to feel helpless to assist the poor animal.  When I first heard it from outside, it drove me to tears and tore me apart.

 

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« Reply #1010 on: October 23, 2013, 12:29:09 PM »

Bearly,

What wonderful, heartfelt and helpful posts you made for me. I so appreciate your thoughts and the time it took you to write them down.

You are on point in so many areas. (Brandi does not bark much during these episodes, but does bark a few times, and she seriously does not bark at any other times unless we tell her to! So barking is not really an issue (noise) just an indication of her distress/anxiety.)

You are right about the fact that she responds to me and has expectations of me more than son and hubby. I am the constant in her life (I have never left home for work since we have had her, so I am here with her all the time.) I am the primary feeder, cuddler, communicator, petter, comforter) in her life and have always been. Not to say son and hubby do not provide that also, just that she knows I am always here when she wants any of those things. And she gets them from me. Now that she is deaf, I am aware when she just glances at me, and I stop what I am doing and wave and smile at her, and she responds with her own little smile or just relaxes. So I am the one who communicates with her the most. She has not displayed any anxiety about being deaf. She seems just as happy as ever and responds to our (mostly mine) hand signals perfectly. It's just that the separation anxiety has gotten worse, and just when I leave. Makes sense now that I think about it that it would be me, and it would be worse now, since I am the main one with whom she probably feels she can be communicated with the best. Maybe I can work on hubby and son's hand signals and get them to use them more with her.

I never got her a "real" ThunderShirt, rather, I got her a tight vest that was on sale last season. It worked great. We tried it a few times in the past couple of weeks, and it did not seem to have any effect. Come to think about it, she has lost weight since then too, so it is probably not quite tight enough to work well! I put it on again today to see if it helps, and am going to find something to tighten it around her chest area before I take son out shopping when hubby gets home. (I don't dare leave her alone at home without someone here.) We'll see how she does this evening. The weighted idea is a good one. I had read some about that while researching separation anxiety last week.

Your posts gave me a lot to think about and a lot to learn about, and I can't thank you enough!

 

 
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« Reply #1011 on: October 23, 2013, 09:23:36 PM »

Bearly,

What wonderful, heartfelt and helpful posts you made for me. I so appreciate your thoughts and the time it took you to write them down.

You are on point in so many areas. (Brandi does not bark much during these episodes, but does bark a few times, and she seriously does not bark at any other times unless we tell her to! So barking is not really an issue (noise) just an indication of her distress/anxiety.)

You are right about the fact that she responds to me and has expectations of me more than son and hubby. I am the constant in her life (I have never left home for work since we have had her, so I am here with her all the time.) I am the primary feeder, cuddler, communicator, petter, comforter) in her life and have always been. Not to say son and hubby do not provide that also, just that she knows I am always here when she wants any of those things. And she gets them from me. Now that she is deaf, I am aware when she just glances at me, and I stop what I am doing and wave and smile at her, and she responds with her own little smile or just relaxes. So I am the one who communicates with her the most. She has not displayed any anxiety about being deaf. She seems just as happy as ever and responds to our (mostly mine) hand signals perfectly. It's just that the separation anxiety has gotten worse, and just when I leave. Makes sense now that I think about it that it would be me, and it would be worse now, since I am the main one with whom she probably feels she can be communicated with the best. Maybe I can work on hubby and son's hand signals and get them to use them more with her.

I never got her a "real" ThunderShirt, rather, I got her a tight vest that was on sale last season. It worked great. We tried it a few times in the past couple of weeks, and it did not seem to have any effect. Come to think about it, she has lost weight since then too, so it is probably not quite tight enough to work well! I put it on again today to see if it helps, and am going to find something to tighten it around her chest area before I take son out shopping when hubby gets home. (I don't dare leave her alone at home without someone here.) We'll see how she does this evening. The weighted idea is a good one. I had read some about that while researching separation anxiety last week.

Your posts gave me a lot to think about and a lot to learn about, and I can't thank you enough!

 

 

I didn't recognize you! 

We are so used to each other's primary avatars that even I had a little 'anxiety' over the change, so I cannot imagine what happens to a furry family member who is with us every day, and changes occur.  Brandi has been with you for most of her life and is used to routine, whatever that means for your family.  Suddenly, you were hurt and as a result of that your body also has gone through some changes, even good ones.  It can't be easy to watch your diet, take care of your family, hairy and not so hairy, and yourself at the same time.  There was also some worry surrounding you and your injury.  You have also introduced some chemicals and different foods to your system that would make you smell differently (I don't mean bad) to a family member who may use that as her primary sense. There has been a lot for a dog with issues herself to take in and adapt to.  Once she gets used to her new routine and sees that Mommy won't break and is just as loving as her old Mommy, she may calm down some on her own.  Good luck!

You are welcome, once I started thinking about it, I just couldn't stop...

 

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« Reply #1012 on: October 24, 2013, 07:33:20 AM »

Good morning,
 
Bearly, those are some awesome suggestions (thinkings).  Maybe a tighter thunder shirt/vest will work for Brandi.  I hope so.
Hope everyone has a blessed day.
 
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« Reply #1013 on: October 24, 2013, 05:37:32 PM »

For Tevye! A fire pit globe. 

Love you Monkeys.Time for some shut eye.  Monkey Devil!
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« Reply #1014 on: October 24, 2013, 06:25:54 PM »

VERY cool fire pit, Trimm!

I want a fire pit, but so far, no one has bought me one. LOL (Meaning son or hubby.)

Love the one you found!

 

(...made that for a monkey a few years back. I think her username was MindOnFire. Seemed appropriate today!)
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« Reply #1015 on: October 24, 2013, 07:16:27 PM »

VERY cool fire pit, Trimm!

I want a fire pit, but so far, no one has bought me one. LOL (Meaning son or hubby.)

Love the one you found!

 

(...made that for a monkey a few years back. I think her username was MindOnFire. Seemed appropriate today!)


  Good one Brandi
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« Reply #1016 on: October 24, 2013, 07:17:49 PM »

For Tevye! A fire pit globe. 

Love you Monkeys.Time for some shut eye.  Monkey Devil!

That is cool Trimm
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« Reply #1017 on: October 24, 2013, 07:31:27 PM »

Yikes Trimm did you see how much they want for that sucker. I thought boy that would make a great gift for daughter. Until I saw the price.   It's still cool and a fire pit is still a good idea. Just not this one.
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« Reply #1018 on: October 24, 2013, 09:01:36 PM »

Yikes Trimm did you see how much they want for that sucker. I thought boy that would make a great gift for daughter. Until I saw the price.   It's still cool and a fire pit is still a good idea. Just not this one.

Not as cool as the globe but much more affordable: 

http://www.plowhearth.com/big-woods-fire-pit-with-domed-spark-guard_p417923_s2011_d4030_c4423.html

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« Reply #1019 on: October 25, 2013, 01:48:04 PM »

Good morning,
 
Bearly, those are some awesome suggestions (thinkings).  Maybe a tighter thunder shirt/vest will work for Brandi.  I hope so.
Hope everyone has a blessed day.
 

Something will help them, whether it is changes they implement or a mild sedative given temporarily until another solution is found.  I really don't like to hear of an animal, or a person, having anxiety issues when there is always something we can do to help.  A person may be able to find solutions on their own, but our fur babies will usually need our help, that's why they are fur babies forever, and we never talk about fur adults.  The feelings are real, and it is not a matter of expecting her to deal with this herself.  Communication is paramount and Brandi (the Mom) has done a wonderful job of giving Brandi (her fur baby) a way to communicate with her and other family members. Brandi (I am going to write Brandi (M) for the Mom and Brandi for her baby, to try to differentiate from here on out) is smarter than the average fur Momma (lol at the Yogi bear voice in my head).  She may even be communicating her anxiety to Brandi before she goes out, knowing what is coming for her dear baby.  They pick up on every nuance, especially when one sense has been compromised.

There is always a solution, the hardest thing is having patience with yourself until you find it.  Staying home is one solution, but it is not an acceptable one, no one should be asked to be a slave to a behavior.  It causes resentment in the person who is giving up his/her life, even if they are not aware of it, and the animal will feel it and as a result become anxious, the very problem you are trying to avoid.  Anxiety is a never ending circle until broken by some kind of intervention, either by yourself, someone else, or a change in circumstances.  One of the hardest things to convince someone of is the need for intervention, Brandi (M) is already way ahead of the game, recognizing this need before asking for help.  The second hardest thing is asking for help.  Brandi (M) has already got step 1 and step 2 down, the rest will follow.  She is an amazing fur mommy and Brandi is lucky to have her.  She is also sensitive to the needs of her family and is not asking they suffer due to her ego (liking that Brandi appears to show a preference for her) sabotaging any intervention as a result.  These steps are a big deal and the hardest of all for some people.

Here I am preaching to the choir.  Sister, I know you recognize the cycle of behavior and have done an amazing job with your fur baby.  You have gone further than most to help your pooch.  This answer was a general one and not directed at you or Belle.  I know you recognize the need for intervention and would never place your ego before your baby's needs.

    an angelic monkey

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There is no foot too small that it cannot leave an imprint on this world.
Time spent with monkeys is never wasted. 
I believe in miracles!
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