RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS #8

[absolut]

Finger sign "shocker" definition http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shocker&r=f

[friend of monkeys]

SHOUT OUT....I grew up in Alabama (the HOLYLAND) and have felt a strong kinship with this tradegy....at first my opinion about NH wuz negative.....eye coodnt reconcile the two NHs.(good girl-bad girl) and I HAD to tell my tale or explode but there was no outlet. then eye found this blog. ive never done this b 4 but its ben great. with ur help, eye now see NH in a positive lite. eye still believe eye no watt happened (and it aint very good-sorry) and that NH (the good 1) just got caught up in it. THX

good morning wiz wuz up ?

[wwizard]

SHOUT OUT....I grew up in Alabama (the HOLYLAND) and have felt a strong kinship with this tradegy....at first my opinion about NH wuz negative.....eye coodnt reconcile the two NHs.(good girl-bad girl) and I HAD to tell my tale or explode but there was no outlet. then eye found this blog. ive never done this b 4 but its ben great. with ur help, eye now see NH in a positive lite. eye still believe eye no watt happened (and it aint very good-sorry) and that NH (the good 1) just got caught up in it. THX

good morning wiz wuz up ?

morning FOM mi amigo

[Ben]

Good find.  These look to me like the same person, one fatter and dressed up as a gangsta which seems to be all the rage in Aruba now.  They boy is a DJ afterall and needs to play the part.  Later in the string somebody puts them up side by side  

Sorry if this was discussed but its 4am,

MSNBC is showing the big stocky steve croes
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8218429/

I thought it was

http://elektron.its.tudelft.nl/~ensermo/mike/pages/alltogether.htm

Which is the one?

Unless the guy in the second photo put on a lot of weight, we've got two different pics here.  

The second pic, not on MSNBC, was confirmed by two people on this site as the Steve Croes who is the Captain/1st Officer of the boat, not the DJ.  Is it possible that there are two Steve Croes who work on the same boat?

[absolut]

http://meetme.hotornot.com/r/?emid=GMOLKLR Jorans AMIHOTORNot pic and voting (may have been put up after by someone else although seems like his writing style.)

[Ben]

Good find.  These look to me like the same person, one fatter and dressed up as a gangsta which seems to be all the rage in Aruba now.  They boy is a DJ afterall and needs to play the part.  Later in the string somebody puts them up side by side  

Sorry if this was discussed but its 4am,

MSNBC is showing the big stocky steve croes
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8218429/

I thought it was

http://elektron.its.tudelft.nl/~ensermo/mike/pages/alltogether.htm

Which is the one?

Ok, I retract my previous statement.  After putting them side by side they do appear to be the same person.

Unless the guy in the second photo put on a lot of weight, we've got two different pics here.  

The second pic, not on MSNBC, was confirmed by two people on this site as the Steve Croes who is the Captain/1st Officer of the boat, not the DJ.  Is it possible that there are two Steve Croes who work on the same boat?

[iquitos]

Niel:  Some people want to be hard on others and rationalize their own situation.  It is about self interest.  Like, I am for the war but I'm not going or sending my kid or I believe in the death penalty for everybody else except if its my kid, or they should put dopers in jail except my kid.  We can't transfer whatever guilt Joran might have to his parents.  If he did anything it is likely he made a serious error in judgement due to his age and inexperience and will likely pay dear for it.   It is called justice.  We should feel for all of them.  They are kids

AZLady,

Not trying to defend such actions, but just trying to understand how such a thing can happen.

Children are not born with a reasonable sense of what is right or wrong.  That is developed over years of experience and values being passed on to us from those they respect.  I think if everyone were to remember back at things we did "wrong", most likely we did not fully comprehend that behavior was unacceptable, or else we would not have done it.  This is the process of socialization, so you are correct that if Joran drugged Natalee then this is unacceptable.  How did he not know that was unacceptable?  It was either because of his immaturity or something else that made it OK in his mind, and the point that I was attempting to make is that it is likely immaturity.

Almost all of socialization is learning to supress natural tendencies toward violent agression or sexual agression.  We may have a natural tendency to hit at the age of 2, but by the time we are 21, hopefully we have learned to direct this energy in a socially acceptable manner.  At what stage of life do we fully become fully socialized.  For some it is younger, for some it is older, and for some never.  A 17 year old is still in the process of becomming socialized so it is understandable that Joran may not have fully comprehended the consequences of his actions.  That does not make them acceptable, but we can understand what process is going on.

Maybe his parenting was poor, and his parents did help him to learn.  Often parents cripple their children by overcontrolling and keeping children from learning to take control of their own lives.  Different people learn at different rates.  Cultures are different.  From my observation, much of parenting is less than adequate, and the children suffer accordingly.

[Candide]

Good morning, I have been away from "civilization" since yesterday early afternoon.  Could someone give me a brief recap of what transpired regarding Americaninaruba knowing the latest suspect?  Thanks.

[iquitos]

Can somebody put up the ICE quote again if it is important to the case?  

I also find it odd that the #1 reason this blog exploded today and recieved the traffic it did. (It was not the false she is found story FYI) It was the ICE agents brothers comments to a blog posting. Yet almost 12 hours later no one is bothering to check into how much of those post have come true or what is next on that front.

Hmmm, yes, about that ICE post.  Although I'm a registered member here, I could not get in to ever read that post.  I was stuck with someone else's paraphrase of it on another forum, with a link to here that only got an error message over and over, because of the chitchat filling up all the pages.

I still haven't seen said post.

[wismom]

Good Morning Everyone.  Need to share a strong feeling, vision, premonition that I  felt  that became very strong last night.  Please don't laugh. Before falling asleep last night, (left board at 2am cst.) I sensed Natalee was sitting in a room, possibly blindfolded, she is being guarded by someone, not hurt I don't think but she can't hear, see or speak. (See no evil, Hear no evil, speak no evil) I sense there is a dirt floor and grass roof or walls. She doesn't know were she is but she is ok. I heard a loud pop next to my right ear. Is it possible whoever has her never expected her Mom to have the pair that she has and now is trying to back out without
whatever they are involved in being discovered.  I have felt from the beginning that she was moved off Aruba and have wondered why no one
has searched beyond the Island.  As a mother of 3 and 2 lost little twins
the bond a Mom has to her children is beyond what may seem resonable to others.  In this case I believe we all have this feeling because Natalee is calling out to all of us.  Thanks for letting me share this, and I pray this will be a good day for Natalee and her family.  Again these are feelings I can't explain they are just there and won't go away.

[Ben]

Update from MSNBC (nothing new though)

Croes was interviewed as a witness Wednesday, evidently because of something said by one of the 3 suspects.  He was then detained Thursday around 6:30 am.

Croes's ex-wife and boss both say he is not capable of anything like this.  Joren's mom still maintains that her son is innocent, an honors student, etc.  The editor of Aruba AM (i believe) says that allegations of Joren as a wild person and the allegations of the "gang bang" video are absolutely untrue.

NH's mom, bless her heart, is still scouring the island looking for her daughter.  They showed an excerpt from her interview and she called Joren's demeanor "arrogant" with "limited communication" and she felt that he was someone with "power".  Basically NH's mom thinks he's a liar.

At this point I'm going to accept NH's mom as my primary character witness for the case.

[Another K in Texas]

Another hint for newbies--

You really don't have to read all the pages in all the theads.

I usually just read the last three when I come back from the real world.  I then look further or ask if there is something I don't understand.

I think a large part of the dispute is that some of us never leave this thread.

We were on the old system with the running commentary moved to a new page when it slowed down.  When they opened this forum, the RUMORS thread became that same running commentary.

Now many more people are finding the site and expect it to be more liek a more traditions forum on sports or games or teaching.

Plus we have had a influx of people who seem to follow many crimes and try to solve them.

Most of us from the long pre forum threads are just concerned about this one missing person and don't really consider ourselves detectives.  

The very bonding some dislike is the REASON some of the Arubans and Alabaman's are here in the first place--and why they keep coming back.

That is also why some of the "regulars" become defensive when expecially new people make posts that we know hurt and might even run off these members of the family that this thread has become.

It is not an exclusive family.  Many start posting after lurking for days and join right in.

Anyone is welcome as long as they are polite.  The conflict happens when new people come into the forum and start trying to tell everyone else what is and is not the right way to act.


I moderate two forums--a huge one to do with sports.  It has been around since 98 and in those seven years has become a giant with many forums and subforums.  Posters there now go to each others weddings and funerals and consider the people they met there as real as any real world friends.

Another one is a small, only one year old, site for a "silly but I love it" computer game I play--RCT2.  It is tightly moderated on some forums--but even it has times when posters just talk to each other as people.  

Moral, no two BBS systems are alike. Nor should they be.


There are three moderators for these forums, and every poster should not become a member of the poster police.

Just relax and keep hoping and  praying for a break that brings natalee home.

[friend of monkeys]

Update from MSNBC (nothing new though)

fox news-
jorans family has hired 2 additional lawyers for case

[Another K in Texas]

What ICE agent are you talkiing about?

I was here all day yesterday and have no idea what you mean.  If you share part of the information I might be able to help you.

[Another K in Texas]

Friend, last night a poster said this was required because the prime lawyer broke a rule and how has to be replaced.  He actually will keep working, but not as the one who goes to court.

[iquitos]

The thing about a renewed public belief that Natalee is alive came from a noontime commentary on FM TOP 95.1 radio which I translated/summarized as it was airing.  It did not reference to any belief on part of  authorities.  It later became distorted.  

oit I r.    tio

Where the hell did you get this, "She said that for the last 30 years, each year she finds 3 or 4 sensationalist stories and tracks them relentlessly." WHERE DID I SAY THAT?!?!  

Uhm, Nancy didn't say that.  Itawamba did in response to a post someone made back to him/her, but it wasn't in the context of which Dallas posted as attributed to you, Nancy.

Thanks for the correction, RB!

RB just demonstrated the interactiveness of a blog and how it drives out inaccuracies.

So, who do you report for?

Dallas:

I beg your pardon? Requesting personal information?  Oh, you think I"m a reporter here to steal your investigations?  Is this a joke?

I am asking you kindly to give truthful, sourced news reports.  If these were mere "forum discussions" it would be different.  But, stating that "several authorities report they now believe Natalee is alive" is way beyond chit chat.  You could say, "Rumours of a renewed belief Natalee is alive are rampant, but unconfirmed."  Or, "A forum informant reports a person by the name of Lorenzo has been detained and questioned.  This report has not been confirmed.

If you'd like to learn a little more, check out Dan's site...he's very good at noting when an item is hearsay and rumor or opinion. And he makes corrections where necessary.  

Regards,
~Nancy

[friend of monkeys]

What ICE agent are you talkiing about?

international carribean enforcement agent i thin k

[Rob]

morning fomj....

[friend of monkeys]

morning fomj....

u r still here????   r we junkies or what?

[Another K in Texas]

Friend all I saw was the rumor that a village in venezuela was being checked by FBI--and the source for that was actually another forum--I can spell but eh reilworld one.  

There was never any follow up.