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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway/Stephany Flores Case Discussion #869 3/20/2015 -  (Read 568383 times)
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1600 on: February 11, 2018, 11:51:16 PM »

https://www.facebook.com/HelpTheMissing/photos/a.134644599887359.18888.123013127717173/1015144655170678/?type=3&theater



Justice for Natalee!

 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 03:14:16 PM by texasmom » Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1601 on: February 12, 2018, 10:09:14 PM »


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2018/02/07/beth-holloway-oxygen-media-over-a-tv-series-the-disappearance-of-natalee-holloway-of-her-daughters-2005-disappearance-in-aruba/
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #1602 on: February 15, 2018, 10:04:01 PM »

I don't know what to say. We have gone down every rabbit hole that has come up since day one. I have always been skeptical that we were finally going to hit on something real and substantial, but I am the eternal optimist that one of these days we are going to hit on something. That said, I think I am at a new low. Dave has chased so many far fetched leads (I truly don't fault him - I know in my heart he is sincere) but in doing so, he has alienated Beth and anyhope of anyone trusting anybody. It is going to take a revelation from someone other than the family to solve this now. I'm with Kermit, the people that truly knew everything about the case as well as ANYONE, was the Freebirds, and there is no one to go back to them other than the FBI. (I may be totally off-base, but I think Kermit had such connections and can't divulge what he/she knows.) I may be completely mis-guided, but I think the case still hangs in the balance of what really happened with the Persistance. I will never stop believing that until we hear from Kyle Kingman and I can look into his eyes and hear what he knows and thinks in his heart.  
Edit:
( a couple of glasses of wine in -- I tend to write from the heart and my syntax gets fuzzy!)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 10:17:27 PM by wreck » Logged

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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1603 on: February 17, 2018, 07:59:48 AM »

I don't know what to say. We have gone down every rabbit hole that has come up since day one. I have always been skeptical that we were finally going to hit on something real and substantial, but I am the eternal optimist that one of these days we are going to hit on something. That said, I think I am at a new low. Dave has chased so many far fetched leads (I truly don't fault him - I know in my heart he is sincere) but in doing so, he has alienated Beth and anyhope of anyone trusting anybody. It is going to take a revelation from someone other than the family to solve this now. I'm with Kermit, the people that truly knew everything about the case as well as ANYONE, was the Freebirds, and there is no one to go back to them other than the FBI. (I may be totally off-base, but I think Kermit had such connections and can't divulge what he/she knows.) I may be completely mis-guided, but I think the case still hangs in the balance of what really happened with the Persistance. I will never stop believing that until we hear from Kyle Kingman and I can look into his eyes and hear what he knows and thinks in his heart.  
Edit:
( a couple of glasses of wine in -- I tend to write from the heart and my syntax gets fuzzy!)

BBM, me too.   

Two sips of coffee into the morning so I'm keeping it short.   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1604 on: February 18, 2018, 11:32:56 AM »

At about 15 minutes in Gabriel Madrigal shows what is supposed to be a wild boar skull, and says that's where the bones that were tested came from.  If I understand correctly, he says John dug the skull up from the back yard in Florida and took them to Aruba in the waistband of his shorts for them to find. Edit to add, I had a few things wrong, the skull was not buried, and John supposedly hid the bones in a shaving kit for the flight and then in his shorts when he and Gabe went to dig them up, and he supposedly somehow dropped them in without Gabe noticing for them to find.

He also gives another disgusting version of how Joran and John supposedly disposed of Natalee's remains at about 34 minutes in.  I don't believe a word of it, just another lie imo.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvhkL4dtyFw

The truth of John Ludwick lies on the documentary The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway
439 views

Gabes Way
Published on Jan 3, 2018
Here I show the actual skull that John himself took pieces off to master plan the lies  of the documentary THE DISAPPEARANCE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY copyright 2017-2018 all rights reserved

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/kvhkL4dtyFw" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/v/kvhkL4dtyFw</a>

Gabes Way channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXi-cmLxzlXBWH71UIWkkQw

You don't even have to watch the videos to see the pattern that's obvious just from the descriptions.  John takes bits and pieces from all the years of commentary on Natalee's case and creates lies that include himself all for money.  I still don't believe he knew Joran in 2005, and don't believe he has ANY knowledge about what really happened to Natalee.  I'll never believe Joran was still disposing of remains five years after the fact.  jmo
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 06:16:16 PM by texasmom » Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #1605 on: February 19, 2018, 12:26:05 AM »

i just dont understand how,why Gabriel Madrigal
believed John Ludwick BS,(though they prob in it
together) and convinced TJ & Dave Holloway,then
someone sells it to Oxygen Media, even though
all Oxygen Media saw was just $$$$$.
then the DNA guy, why would he risk his rep with
the shows BS. at the bottom of the dna guys pdf
are references to testimonies, he did in courts
wonder if those will be called into question now

Jason Kolowski, Ph.D., F-ABC

EMPLOYMENT
Director, Forensic Science Laboratory.
Department of Forensic Sciences, Washington D.C.
November13, 2012- Present

TESTIMONY EXPERIENCE @ bottom of pdf
http://www.songerinstitute.org/cv/JKolowski_CV.pdf
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goodmorn,goodnite, got to go, as always its been wonderful, talking with you, and most of all have a great day, and dont forget to smile
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1606 on: February 19, 2018, 10:06:41 PM »

i just dont understand how,why Gabriel Madrigal
believed John Ludwick BS,(though they prob in it
together) and convinced TJ & Dave Holloway,then
someone sells it to Oxygen Media, even though
all Oxygen Media saw was just $$$$$.
then the DNA guy, why would he risk his rep with
the shows BS. at the bottom of the dna guys pdf
are references to testimonies, he did in courts
wonder if those will be called into question now

Jason Kolowski, Ph.D., F-ABC

EMPLOYMENT
Director, Forensic Science Laboratory.
Department of Forensic Sciences, Washington D.C.
November13, 2012- Present

TESTIMONY EXPERIENCE @ bottom of pdf
http://www.songerinstitute.org/cv/JKolowski_CV.pdf


Gabe acts like he's being honest Gabe, but then continues the saga with more of John's lies. There's a box with Natalee's belongings, there's pictures from that night, blah blah blah. 

Apparently they'll say anything for another pay day and all expense paid trip to Aruba!   

This association still makes me wonder what was really going on.  Can't help but think that if we knew more about it, we might be able to make more sense of it all.  jmo

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sex-offender-natalee-holloway-tv-series_us_59e4fec7e4b0ca9f4839c786

CRIME 10/17/2017 02:31 pm ET
Sex Offender Claims Responsibility For Natalee Holloway TV Series
A California lawsuit adds a new twist to a mystery wreaked by false leads and fabricated confessions.

By David Lohr

 

Quote
In an effort to answer those questions, HuffPost reached out to Ludwick and Madrigal this month. Ludwick did not respond. Madrigal claimed he knows where Holloway’s remains are and will reveal the location if he is compensated. He directed further inquiries to Eliot Benton, who he identified as his manager.

“If the Huffington Post were interested, I’m pretty sure it could be arraigned,” Benton said. “If you came up with like $5,000 [and gave] $2,500 to Gabriel and $2,500 to John, that would probably cover it.”

That $5,000, Benton clarified in a follow-up text message, would be in addition to any travel expenses for the men. HuffPost does not pay for interviews.

Ward later added another twist to the developments: He said Benton doesn’t exist ― and Benton is really Edward E. Kramer.

He uses “his middle name and the [last name of a] girl he was living with,” Ward told HuffPost.

Asked about Kramer acting as Madrigal’s manager, Ward said, “That’s news to me.”

Ward said he is aware that Kramer is a registered sex offender and that Kramer has used the name Benton as an alias in press releases about Ward.


Good points about the dna guy too.  Looking for a big payday before retirement or something?  I don't know.  Can't imagine why anyone would risk their reputation with this mess.

 

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #1607 on: February 20, 2018, 12:06:03 PM »

TM - check your email when you get a chance.  I forwarded something to you.
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1608 on: February 20, 2018, 05:39:58 PM »

TM - check your email when you get a chance.  I forwarded something to you.

Thanks, Klaas!   

And thank you too, to the sweetheart that asked you to send it.   

 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1609 on: March 04, 2018, 05:52:39 PM »

https://revu.nl/artikel/waar-is-het-lijk-van-natalee-holloway

Google translation:
 
In Aruba everyone knows where the body of Natalee Holloway is

Where did Joran van der Sloot dump the body of Natalee Holloway? Crime journalist Hendrik Jan Korterink was for Nieuwe Revu in the Antilles, and always got the same answer.
 
On Sunday evening, May 29, 2005 at around 9.30 PM, Natalee meets Joran van der Sloot, a regular guest at the poker table at the Excelsior casino. She is together with four friends. They ask if he will go to Carlos'n Charlie's, a bar in the Weststraat in the center of Oranjestad, about 7 kilometers away. The girls have already been there during the day and then drank a lot. "It's our last night in Aruba," they say invitingly. They want a splashing farewell to the island, where everything is so different from the good Alabama. Joran does have an ear to it, even though he has to leave early the next morning, because of an exam. But he's going home first. He is in the casino with his father. Father Paul wanted to know how that went, that poker.

While his father thinks that Joran is in bed, Joran calls his Surinamese friend, Deepak Kalpoe, to pick him up. Deepak comes to ride a while later, with his pimped Honda Civic, along with his little brother Satish. They drive to Carlos'n Charlie's and arrive around 00.30. Natalee and her friends have been there for a few hours. DJ Martin had welcomed ' all the people from Alabama ' and played Sweet Home Alabama by Lynyrd Skynyrd. When Joran comes in, Natalee is dancing. When she sees him, she orders a body shot. She is lying on the bar, Joran is allowed to lick the shot of her belly.

Carlos'n Charlie's closes at 1 am. Natalee gets into the Deepak car with Joran. They drive past the bus stop where the other students are. A boy shouts: "Come out of that car, have you gone mad?" Natalee screams from the window with a smile: ' Woohoo, I stay with him ... I love Aruba! 'These are Natalee's last verifiable words, outside of her conversation with Joran.

In fact, very little is known about what happened that night. Joran told Patrick van der Eem that he and a third, whose name he would never mention, had the body of Natalee disappear. Did Joran talk about his father, or about an unknown friend or acquaintance? You can think of everything about it, but you can assume that if his father had been in rope that night, his mother would have to have had something of it. That is as unlikely as Joran did on his own. His father is now deceased, we will no longer receive an answer from him. If he has indeed not been there, besides Joran there must be one person who knows what happened on Aruba that night, but the chance that one of them will tell is small.

What are the options to make a body disappear into the nocturnal dark of Aruba as unnoticed as possible? You can think of the rugged coast at San Nicolas. At the container port, at the dog cemetery, at the prison. A fairly deserted area, where you can dump a body in the rock gorges. Maybe in the water, but the chances are that something will wash ashore on one of the beaches. There is only one thing that you can virtually exclude: burial. There is no place to be found on the mainland of Aruba where you can dig a sufficiently deep grave to stop someone inside with only a few shovels. The soil is rock hard. Un-begun work. On a sandy beach then? No one who is at home on the island will mind that. Then you have to dig an impossible deep hole and even then the chance of it being discovered in no time is life-size. As unlikely as buried in the rock bottom.

There is really only one option: with a boat to Venezuela. After a few kilometers you will get to a kind of wave stream, which will drag everything that ends up into the ocean. Fishermen and other Aruban sailors know that. If Joran has been helped by such a person - and that is most likely - it has gone like this. Tourists on Aruba and the other islands do not have to be afraid of sharks. Further on in the ocean it is a different story. It is not a pleasant idea for the next of kin, but the people who know the Caribbean Sea have little doubt whether this is what has happened. That Natalee literally and purposefully went to the sharks.

Read the whole article on Blendle .
https://blendle.com/i/nieuwe-revu/laatste-nacht-op-aruba/bnl-nieuwerevu-20180221-44cda077b1a
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1610 on: March 04, 2018, 06:00:52 PM »

hmmm, wonder who his memorial tour guides were?   

http://www.misdaadjournalist.nl/2018/02/natalee-holloway-de-laatste-nacht-op-aruba/

Natalee Holloway: the last night in Aruba
 Hendrik Jan Korterink  February 23, 2018    0 Comments

In December I spent a few days in Aruba. The island where Natalee Holloway disappeared without a trace. A matter that I have followed closely, but not very closely: too far away. I have made a kind of 'Natalee Memorial Tour' together with people who are well known on the spot. The route that she followed that night of her fatal encounter with Joran van der Sloot.

 

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1611 on: March 04, 2018, 06:07:16 PM »

https://twitter.com/greta/status/965348049890566144

Greta Van Susteren

Verified account
 
@greta
 Feb 18

I will never go there as a tourist. I would return to continue to investigate the Natalee Holloway story.

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #1612 on: March 15, 2018, 06:21:00 AM »

Ludwig is dead. I bet Joran is truly heartbroken. There goes his only friend. You're next Joran.

Man who claims he helped burn and dispose of missing Natalee Holloway's body is stabbed to death while 'trying to kidnap a woman in Florida'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5503419/Man-says-disposed-Natalee-Holloways-body-stabbed-death.html
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« Reply #1613 on: March 15, 2018, 10:53:59 AM »

Ludwig is dead. I bet Joran is truly heartbroken. There goes his only friend. You're next Joran.

Man who claims he helped burn and dispose of missing Natalee Holloway's body is stabbed to death while 'trying to kidnap a woman in Florida'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5503419/Man-says-disposed-Natalee-Holloways-body-stabbed-death.html

Karma is a bitch.  Yes, Joran....you are next! 
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« Reply #1614 on: March 15, 2018, 12:21:21 PM »

Ludwig is dead. I bet Joran is truly heartbroken. There goes his only friend. You're next Joran.

Man who claims he helped burn and dispose of missing Natalee Holloway's body is stabbed to death while 'trying to kidnap a woman in Florida'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5503419/Man-says-disposed-Natalee-Holloways-body-stabbed-death.html

Karma is a bitch.  Yes, Joran....you are next! 

Ain't that the truth.  I just read this.  Payback-what goes around comes around.
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« Reply #1615 on: March 15, 2018, 12:32:55 PM »

hmmm, wonder who his memorial tour guides were?   

http://www.misdaadjournalist.nl/2018/02/natalee-holloway-de-laatste-nacht-op-aruba/

Natalee Holloway: the last night in Aruba
 Hendrik Jan Korterink  February 23, 2018    0 Comments

In December I spent a few days in Aruba. The island where Natalee Holloway disappeared without a trace. A matter that I have followed closely, but not very closely: too far away. I have made a kind of 'Natalee Memorial Tour' together with people who are well known on the spot. The route that she followed that night of her fatal encounter with Joran van der Sloot.

 



That is sick IMO.
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
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« Reply #1616 on: March 15, 2018, 12:37:49 PM »

always felt ludwick was a dangerous a$$ nine, seems gabe said something
about JL way back, that he didnt trust him, JL might hurt someone



By Staff Report
Posted at 7:37 AM
Updated at 8:19 AM
John Christopher Ludwick, 32, of Port Charlotte tried to kidnap a woman he knew just before 7 a.m. as she exited her vehicle in her driveway in the 4300 block of Wesley Lane, the North Port Police Department said.
Police said a struggle ensued, and Ludwick tried to push her over and take her in her own car.
“Every indication we have now, she was the victim potentially fighting for her life,” NPD spokesman Josh Taylor told SNN-TV. “She wasn’t having it.”
The woman took a knife from Ludwick during the struggle and stabbed him. He ran from the scene, and Taylor said the police department received calls about a man injured on South Biscayne Drive.
Ludwick, who previously had a relationship with the woman she no longer wanted, was upset, Taylor said. Ludwick was taken by helicopter to a local hospital where he died Wednesday morning.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20180314/man-linked-to-infamous-case-killed-in-alleged-kidnapping
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goodmorn,goodnite, got to go, as always its been wonderful, talking with you, and most of all have a great day, and dont forget to smile
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1617 on: March 15, 2018, 02:22:42 PM »

Ludwig is dead. I bet Joran is truly heartbroken. There goes his only friend. You're next Joran.

Man who claims he helped burn and dispose of missing Natalee Holloway's body is stabbed to death while 'trying to kidnap a woman in Florida'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5503419/Man-says-disposed-Natalee-Holloways-body-stabbed-death.html

Karma is a bitch.  Yes, Joran....you are next! 

Ain't that the truth.  I just read this.  Payback-what goes around comes around.


 

Just saw the news myself, and have had the same thoughts!  Wow!   

He didn't know Natalee or Stephany but he got the notoriety he wanted so badly by spewing his hateful lies about them.
This is probably the only way it would have ever stopped.  He has faced his judgement day.

 



Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1618 on: March 15, 2018, 02:55:04 PM »

You'd think his enablers may have taken a day or two off to think about it.   

But no, Gabe's already rolling about videos about who really killed John. 

I haven't watched more than the first few minutes, I just can't.  Don't care.   

https://www.facebook.com/100006046668726/videos/2012193228992213/

Emily was the first one I thought of when I read the story, as to who it might have been.  Gabe posted this video of her today from May 2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_HPQbYr-HQ&feature=youtu.be
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1619 on: March 15, 2018, 03:08:49 PM »

hmmm, wonder who his memorial tour guides were?   

http://www.misdaadjournalist.nl/2018/02/natalee-holloway-de-laatste-nacht-op-aruba/

Natalee Holloway: the last night in Aruba
 Hendrik Jan Korterink  February 23, 2018    0 Comments

In December I spent a few days in Aruba. The island where Natalee Holloway disappeared without a trace. A matter that I have followed closely, but not very closely: too far away. I have made a kind of 'Natalee Memorial Tour' together with people who are well known on the spot. The route that she followed that night of her fatal encounter with Joran van der Sloot.

 



That is sick IMO.

 
Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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