RBN # 11 - 6/19/05

[nancy_drew]

I think it's time we clear something up with our translators in Aruba. Since they are so kind and passionate about this forum and finding Natalee it seems we should do everything we can to have a good understanding with them concerning the info they share with us.

First of all, the beauty of their involvement is that they are NOT professional reporters.  They give us the details about the colorful and wonderful culture they live in...along with what's being said on the radio and in the communities there.

As many of you have noticed, I am a stickler for at least identifying what's been officially confirmed, what's hearsay and what's rumor.  Since we're now going back and forth regarding what's a fact and what isn't...I think someone close to these wonderful people in Aruba should explain we are NOT questioning their work....but, only debating the validity of the news report or information coming from Aruba unofficially.  

I know they might take the debating of facts personally...and that's not the way it should be.  They also need to understand just because a radio DJ says something, that does not make it fact.  It could be...but, the best thing to do is tuck it away and see if it fits the case.

I do not support not discussing items that are brought to us that we know are rumor.  However, given we are discussing real humans and what we say can have a huge impact on them...I do think it's only fair we preface some of these scenarios with a simple..."this is rumor"...or, some such thing.

I know Red and Tom feel the discussions here are just that...discussions and the recap and news can be found on the blog.  Well, that's not really true all the time as real news and info comes in here...so when that happens we move from being a forum to a news site. With that come big responsibilities.

I've been on forums where for legal reasons each poster has a disclaimer on each of their posts.

I am not concerned about legalities really...I'm concerned we take other people's lives for granted sometimes and just because a name pops up on a Google search..doesn't mean it o.k. to involve them in a fictional story.

I just want our Aruban reporters to understand we're not shooting the messenger, even though we might be debating the information received.

[CancunMole]

Luna, where exactly did I say the Twittys were rude????

Note my prior post:

Luna, coming to a Dutch house at 1am uninvited (whether business or not) is considered rude. They're lucky he opened the door.

I am commenting on the situation, not the Twittys.  And my other comment to you WRT to viewing this with an "americanized" point of view (which is what I perceive you to be doing), is a mistake, IMO.  And the only reason why I deleted the entire portion of my quote is to save on space and answer your questions.

"coming to a Dutch house at 1am uninvited (whether business or not) is considered rude. They're lucky he opened the door"

Hmmmmm....Let's see...the Twitty's went to a Dutch house (around) 1 am.  You used the word "they're" implying the Twitty's if I'm correct.....I don't believe we've been talking about anyone else going to the VDS door at 1 am.

No offense but I think you're getting bogged down in word usage. I did not read that as being accusatory of the Twitty's at all. Change "they're" to "one is" and it will be generic.

[AnnieMW1]

I Am Dutch and agree with you , it would be nicer if they used more tact or clarify what was happening. After all father van der sloot tried to locate his son .
But must admit when I am in the shoes of the parents of Natalee and people are telling stories about some guy is responsible for doing something to my child I would not hesitate neighter to knock at his door . Because I would be very desperate to find out what happend and a that moment I would not consider the law at all . But that is a natural impulsive reaction I guess.    

absolut...I'm on no crusade.  I just find it incredible that RB would state that the Twitty's were rude to knock on a Dutch door at 1 am and that "they" were lucky he opened the door.

He said he stood by his statement....and I guess he does.

Maybe someone dutch can tell you how they would feel about a 1am visit before the reason for the visit is clarified, then to find out it is to find their son because he was known to be with a girl on a carribean island.

I can tell you if you show up at my house without police looking for my kid because yours is missing. I may even be rude back.

I have no sympathy at all for the VDS family - particularly when at the end of this evening, Joran accompanied the Twitty/Holloway family back to the HI from his house to show them "exactly where he had let Nat off".  Considering what's happened since, he was a cool operator even after being surprised at the door by Nat's family.

[RB]

I'm sure they honked the horn instead of knocking because that fence around the house is gated and prob locked or they did not want to step on the property until they were recieved!

Interesting...so you're saying that they observed some sort of propriety in this "crisis" situation that mandated a 1am visit by the Twittys?  An by recieved, you mean "invited" on to the property.  My, my....

[arubagirl]

Nancy_Drew, in my opinion you should take everything what reporters say with a grain of salt. Both Aruban and U.S.

[Shellbell]

The more I read about this case the more I change my original thoughts.  I am becoming more convinced that the Kalpoes or at least the eldest Kalpoe, Deepak, is the brain behind this whole mess:

•The Honda is his car.
•He probably concockted the story about the lighthouse, stating that Joran had some fun in the back seat, etc..  Here he begins to point the finger at a cocky, arrogant, conceited, yet probable naive 17 year old.
•Not knowing what Joran is saying in jail, Deepak uses Mickey John to spread the news that they never went to the lighthouse, that he left Joran with Natalee at the Marriot.  If this was the case, then somebody else had to give Joran a ride, unless he walked home.  Once again, he points at Joran.
•I believe Paulus Van Der Sloot is a participant in the cover-up, as far as he is responsible of not making his son come forward early enough.  Stupidly he probably thought this would all go away, and his “prestige” and standing in Aruban society World remain intact.
•In Scaredmonkeys (not the discusión, the other forum), Checkme from Aruba stated and predicted in the correct order that friends of Deepak Kalpoe would be brought in for questioning.  Lorenzo Van Rijn, Max Arends, and Steve G. Croes are all primarily friends of Deepak.
•Deepak is cold, cool and collected.  He has a better capacity of machiavelously making up stories that will steer the blame away from him.

I am sure today Paul Van Der Sloot regrets not having had the guts to make his son confess from the beginning all he knew about this tragedy, about banganging encounters, selling porno films and all activities he participated with the older crowd, having the older Kalpoe as his gateway to corruption and crime. Paulus has contributed to creating a young social monster.  A few weeks ago, he probably thought his son had the potential of being the Neetherlands Antilles most prospective little stud …

I am not exculpating Joran, but to me Deepak’s participation in this tragic crime is more relevant.

Totally agree.  Why cant we get much info on them?

[klaasend]

Nancy_Drew, in my opinion you should take everything what reporters say with a grain of salt. Both Aruban and U.S.

I agree!

[iquitos]

So what were the unsupervised Mountain Brook Kids doing in the McDonald's parking lot at 3 am, waiting for it to open for breakfast of disposing of something or waiting for some hookup?  Have they reported their suspicions to the police?  And as someone asked earlier, how did they recognize Mr. van der Sloot?  Finally, if they have so much to say, why don't they get out on the record insted of spreading it around on the web while hiding behind some FBI muzzle which must apply to the internet as well?  

Earlier today a local said their mcdonalds are not the 24 hour version and are not open at 3 am.

Only way this could be valid was be if it was a meeting spot.  But I would guess this type of business would have surveilance cameras.

Funny how a lot of us assumed that this report meant he was inside wolfing down food [thus, 1a v 3a debate] - when in fact, maybe he was just in the parking lot or near the dumpster!  Surveillance video.

[absolut]

Let's say that the Prime Minister of Aruba schedules another press conference for tomorrow at 9 AM.  And not only does he not show up, it turns out he has completely vanished.

I take it that law enforcement just goes "by the book," waits 48 hours, doesn't contact people identified as last being seen with him...

Someone would have to know the amount and type of circumstances or foul play would have to be involved in the report to get the police involved. I do not know in Aruba how much info that takes, but apparently Nat's family got enough to get them involved. The police did not even have to review the video tapes. It was already done.

[bendex]

Hi Lucy ,

I likwe your observations only i doubt the last part , I don't think any considerant parent, especially one who is involved in the justrice department  would allow his son to be involved  " about banganging encounters, selling porno films and all activities he participated with the older crowd, having the older Kalpoe as his gateway to corruption and crime. Paulus has contributed to creating a young social monster.  A few weeks ago, he probably thought his son had the potential of being the Neetherlands Antilles most prospective little stud …"  Noway he would risk his job nor his families future .

The more I read about this case the more I change my original thoughts.  I am becoming more convinced that the Kalpoes or at least the eldest Kalpoe, Deepak, is the brain behind this whole mess:

•The Honda is his car.
•He probably concockted the story about the lighthouse, stating that Joran had some fun in the back seat, etc..  Here he begins to point the finger at a cocky, arrogant, conceited, yet probable naive 17 year old.
•Not knowing what Joran is saying in jail, Deepak uses Mickey John to spread the news that they never went to the lighthouse, that he left Joran with Natalee at the Marriot.  If this was the case, then somebody else had to give Joran a ride, unless he walked home.  Once again, he points at Joran.
•I believe Paulus Van Der Sloot is a participant in the cover-up, as far as he is responsible of not making his son come forward early enough.  Stupidly he probably thought this would all go away, and his “prestige” and standing in Aruban society World remain intact.
•In Scaredmonkeys (not the discusión, the other forum), Checkme from Aruba stated and predicted in the correct order that friends of Deepak Kalpoe would be brought in for questioning.  Lorenzo Van Rijn, Max Arends, and Steve G. Croes are all primarily friends of Deepak.
•Deepak is cold, cool and collected.  He has a better capacity of machiavelously making up stories that will steer the blame away from him.

I am sure today Paul Van Der Sloot regrets not having had the guts to make his son confess from the beginning all he knew about this tragedy, about banganging encounters, selling porno films and all activities he participated with the older crowd, having the older Kalpoe as his gateway to corruption and crime. Paulus has contributed to creating a young social monster.  A few weeks ago, he probably thought his son had the potential of being the Neetherlands Antilles most prospective little stud …

I am not exculpating Joran, but to me Deepak’s participation in this tragic crime is more relevant.

[mountainmac]

IMO the best info we have gotten so far (as in, the most reliable) are from our Aruban friends, whether on the island or in the US, who are listening to the radio or reading the paper. I am skeptical of all these bits of info coming in from people who "claim" to be a relative/friend of whatever suspect/person interrogated. In reality they could actually be someone named Bubba who is posting from their home in Podunk, TX.

While I enjoy reading everyones posts/quotes, I have to agree....the Arubans are providing us with the best information....other than, maybe Dash and MBHS05.

[Juvenal]

Does anybody find that a very conflicting message?

First, bendex, thanks for your view.  

And yes writenow, it is conflicting to the American point of view.

I must apologize, but I don't buy the argument that anything that says that possible life or death matters have anything to do with "cultural differences." That's the biggest crock ever. I know that there are good people and bad people in every culture.

Any parent that has a child missing in a foreign country is going to be distraught, and will forget to observe the finer points of etiquette.

Furthermore, any decent person, especially one with children of his own, would understand this. The race or nationality of that person does not matter one iota.

Same thing if you know that your friend had possibly killed someone. I do not buy that to protect someone you know is guilty is a "Dutch cultural trait." What a load of sh*t. Do you realize by saying that, you've just slandered your own people?

I don't know what was said between Jug and Paulus VDS. It could be that Paulus tried to be helpful and Jug remained angry and confrontational. All I do know is that none of that had anything to do with either Dutch or American cultural standards.

[maggie fff]

The McDonald's (both of them) do not have pay phones. The McDonald's at the hotels is next to the an office of the local phone company, that does have phone booths outside, but they don't work with change, they work with phone cards. I don't know many people who walk around with those, what with the cell phones and all. The local phone company sells them, but they are closed at 4.30pm.

Is that because most calls are international?  Do convenience stores sell phone cards?  

Thanks, arubagirl.   You are wonderful!

/

[friend of monkeys]

Couple of ?s

I have seen posts on here that indicate that the Kalpoe brothers are not part of the Kalpoe family that owns the transportation companies in Aruba and Surinam, that the mother has a catering business and there is a step-father.

So I am going to speculate that early news reports that referred to the brothers as the sons of a prominent businessman could be mistaken.

Or are they? There is a stepfather, where is the father? Is he the one who is said to have committe suicide, or did I dream that? And what is/was his business, and what is known about the occupation of the stepfather.

did i hear one was big shipping co guy??
dz anyone else remember??

[iquitos]

and the travel facilitator chaperones were back in the us but for one.  The big failure was not taking agressive action the minute they realized Natalee was not there in the morning.  they should have had the kids, the security people and the chaperones out on the beach looking.  The Twittys and their artillery got there almost 24 hours later.  The formal process is underway.   The case was contaminated from the start.  

 

When, pray tell, was this "formal process" going to begin?

If the family and co. had not flown down, at what point would the police have bothered to get in touch with JVDS?

Several hours had already gone by since JVDS was identified as among the last people seen with a missing girl (legalities and semantics aside).  You're telling me it's improper police procedure to get in touch with that guy, and get his story?

I have heard without the Twittys there it would have been 48 hours missing before action.

[friend of monkeys]

The McDonald's (both of them) do not have pay phones. The McDonald's at the hotels is next to the an office of the local phone company, that does have phone booths outside, but they don't work with change, they work with phone cards. I don't know many people who walk around with those, what with the cell phones and all. The local phone company sells them, but they are closed at 4.30pm.

i dont know but all my friends in aua need phone cards for their cells
at least out of 011

[Red]

Nancy_Drew, in my opinion you should take everything what reporters say with a grain of salt. Both Aruban and U.S.

Words to live by.

Aruba Girl, drive by shooting, decapitated man from the other day. Natalee missing. They are starting to add up, no?

FOM - don't apologize for the drinking comment. Please I used to tell the hotel bar tenders to make my pina coladas with 151 rum.  

[friend of monkeys]

The McDonald's (both of them) do not have pay phones. The McDonald's at the hotels is next to the an office of the local phone company, that does have phone booths outside, but they don't work with change, they work with phone cards. I don't know many people who walk around with those, what with the cell phones and all. The local phone company sells them, but they are closed at 4.30pm.

i dont know but all my friends in aua need phone cards for their cells
at least out of 011

[Catriana]

A gentle reminder, that at times we get heated and angry over something we read.   Perhaps something someone else says.  When you feel yourself typing out things you would "never say to a person if they were standing in front of you", well.. that is the time to step away.

Get a coffee,  watch some TV, hug your hubby/wife, take a walk, take a shower....  take a break.  Go watch the sunset.

This is a highly emotional issue that has dragged on for weeks (and might go for weeks more).  

Remember, we are all real people with real feelings.   Sometimes, when we type out "words" they aren't taken in the same context that we meant them.

Give others the same latitude you would like them to give you.   Don't assume the worst, look for how that person could have meant something other than the worst.

Life's too short.  We are all not lost... our loved ones know where we are.  Be thankful.

Ok..  back to your regular schedule program, before it was so rudely interrupted by ME.

[nancy_drew]

Nancy_Drew, in my opinion you should take everything what reporters say with a grain of salt. Both Aruban and U.S.

I fully agree!  However, many are respectable and well-trained and do have my respect.  Dan Abrams, Greta and a few others.

My post is in full support of your amazing work...however, any respectable reporter right now will tell you there is very little officially confirmed in this case...so much of what's reported must be taken with a grain of salt. Especially from the rumor mills, etc.