RBN # 12 - 6/19 - 6/20/05

[mbhs05]

KerinTX,
Not necessarily.  THEY could have figured that where the money came from was the family's problem and that there was a pretty good chance that alot of the 'kids' that came to Aruba had parents that could afford to send them.  Maybe Joran meeting Nat several days before hand was no accident , maybe Joran was 'casing' the potential victims.

Maybe the wrong girl was taken? From the photos, there seemed to be many blondes in the group. Did the plane owner's daughter go on the trip?

I would rather that the public not know who did, and did not, go on the trip.  I get a little nervous about that.  There are lurkers on this and other chatboards.

Agreed.

[Professor]

I have already expressed my willingness to apologize, if this investigation turns out to be something more that a simple date-rape gone bad. But I have to admit that the posts of this day have really opened my eyes.
1. When I see posts which indicate that it is "rude" to knock on doors after 10pm, when searching for a missing daughter;
2. When I see posts that indicate that local custom considers "blood to be thicker than water," and which excuse the harboring of known felons;
3. When hear retired police officers -- who, two days earlier were wondering why the local authorities weren't taking advantage of polygraphic technology offered by the FBI -- claiming that the family of the victim should be subject to polygraphs;
4. And when I read posts which indicate that native Arubians believe that they are extending a "courtesy," by allowing a grieving mother to inquire about a missing daughter. . . . .
it makes me wonder who is the #1 PR problem in Aruba today. And my feeling is that it isn't Dee Fine. It's the people of Aruba, themselves.
Think about it, folks. There are plenty of beautiful beaches along the Redneck Riviera. There is Perdido Key and Destin, and Panama City. Further down south, there is Key West, where Jimmy Buffet hangs out. And it isn't considered rude to knock on doors in search of a missing girl. And where people aren't eager to have the tourists leave, and leave their tourist dollars behind.

I'm not condemning anybody. Different cultures have different values, and I'm not saying that one is necessarily better than another. I'm just saying that Arubian values and American values just ain't the same.

[WoodGuy]

I still believe that Joran killed her....behind the Marriot after the brothers dropped him and Nat off. He than called Deepak ('I have to tell you something') for help. Deepak alone came back, took VDS and Nat back to VDS's house where they moved her body to the red jeep and took her somewhere on the island to get rid of her. I believe that VDS's father knew about it and helped. I think that all the people being questioned/arrested now are people that the police/fbi may have observed VDS talking to during the 12 days that they were free. Also could be people that sold him drugs (date rape type) I think an international kidnapping plot is a little far fetched even though anything is possible.

[KKM]

RE:  Kidnap/Ransom Theory

Just my opinion (and gut feeling), but I think we ought to drop this subject pronto.

[iquitos]

Not usually.  This is cross border cooperation.  if somebody get taken in kenya you probably won't see FBI involved.  But you are right they are more likely to go in on a kidnapping than a murder.  

Been doing a little research to be sure.

The FBI does get involved with Americans kidnapped in foreign countries, not just this case.http://www.milaredo-online.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14600814&BRD=2290&PAG=461&dept_id=473478&rfi=6

I know it is so bad here now that my kids friends--we have moved away--no longer go across, and we used to treat is as one city and never really even thought much aobut the border.  I used to buy many things routinely over there, would walk across with just my two little kids, and walk right back after shopping.

FBI involved--see agents quote.

[luna]

Woodguy...Lorenzo van Rijn...rumored to be the illegitimate sone of Paulus vd Sloot and step brother to Joran.

Who has been called in for questioning.  I believe Diario(?) said he'd held Nat in his basement....allegedly one of the few basements in Aruba.

At this point...the allegation is regarded as rumor I believe.

So, did that suposedly come from Diario? (about holding Nat that is)

I'm pretty sure that it was posted from Diario, but I could be wrong.....I remember seeing it written here earlier today .  If not Diario, it was a copy/paste from another blog.  Sorry I don't remember the source exactly.

[Dallas Also]

nancy_drew - Oh my, did I strike a cord there?

I'm not seeking news or reporting news.  Friday night, I had promised one of the MB kids to post a summary of the day.  So I did.


You are beligerent, interrogative, and frankly you cuss alot.  I'm ghosting you.

[SPSII]

RE:  Kidnap/Ransom Theory

Just my opinion (and gut feeling), but I think we ought to drop this subject pronto.

I am not trying to be disrespectful but is there a danger in discussing the theory? Thanks.

[Dallas Also]

Most people carry their passports with them when they travel internationally.

If this is an abduction, it may have foiled up the plan that Natalee didn't have her passport with her.

[Another K in Texas]

We want her alive and some kind of kidnapping is the best scenario for that.

It is still more likely that the something bad was a rape murder.  Although seriously Joran just doesn't look like the type.

[WonderWoman]

Anyone out there know if this guy is related to Steven Croes?




Hendrik Jose Croes  (for those of you following JustMe's "feelings") his nickname is "Endy" kinda like "andy"

[inspector_detector]

I have already expressed my willingness to apologize, if this investigation turns out to be something more that a simple date-rape gone bad. But I have to admit that the posts of this day have really opened my eyes.
1. When I see posts which indicate that it is "rude" to knock on doors after 10pm, when searching for a missing daughter;
2. When I see posts that indicate that local custom considers "blood to be thicker than water," and which excuse the harboring of known felons;
3. When hear retired police officers -- who, two days earlier were wondering why the local authorities weren't taking advantage of polygraphic technology offered by the FBI -- claiming that the family of the victim should be subject to polygraphs;
4. And when I read posts which indicate that native Arubians believe that they are extending a "courtesy," by allowing a grieving mother to inquire about a missing daughter. . . . .


it makes me wonder who is the #1 PR problem in Aruba today. And my feeling is that it isn't Dee Fine. It's the people of Aruba, themselves.
Think about it, folks. There are plenty of beautiful beaches along the Redneck Riviera. There is Perdido Key and Destin, and Panama City. Further down south, there is Key West, where Jimmy Buffet hangs out. And it isn't considered rude to knock on doors in search of a missing girl. And where people aren't eager to have the tourists leave, and leave their tourist dollars behind.

I'm not condemning anybody. Different cultures have different values, and I'm not saying that one is necessarily better than another. I'm just saying that Arubian values and American values just ain't the same.

Come to Hawaii - you won't even need a passport.

[GreatOwl]

Riehl World View


Aruba: Decapitation Story Confirmed
Dan
Today, 11:31 PM
A reliable source on the island of Aruba has confirmed reports of a recent murder / decapitation, and also confirmed reports of another murder currently under investigation in Aruba. A third report regarding a possible new missing person report filed today has not been confirmed at this time.

Additionally, sources close to the Natalee Holloway investigation have indicated to me that there appear to be serious problems developing in establishing a consistent time lime of events surrounding Natalee's disappearance. Problems stem from conflicts among stories by those being questioned, a growing list which now includes  Father of Joran v d Sloot, Paulus v d Sloot.

It's possible that the time line as presented by the elder vd Sloot does not fit with other knowable facts in the case, resulting in his having been brought back for additional questioning.

Additionally, from other contacts who are known to be observing the Natalee Holloway investigation very closely on the ground in Aruba, there is growing concern that some of the lack of clarity in the troubling case could be the result of an attempt to minimize the impact of this tragic case on the tourism industry of Aruba.

While differences do exist between the system of justice in Aruba and a watchful America, many Americans are coming to feel more and more dissatisfied from an apparent lack of accountability to the public by Aruban authorities.

Developing, hope to have more tomorrow.

[friend of monkeys]

Anyone out there know if this guy is related to Steven Croes?




Hendrik Jose Croes  (for those of you following JustMe's "feelings") his nickname is "Endy" kinda like "andy"

thanx

[CaliGirl]

Okay, I think we need a happy moment.. I am going to blast some music for everyone.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another mountain,
There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb
There are oceans and rivers enough to cross,
Enough to last till the end of time.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another meadow
There are cornfields and wheat fields enough to grow
There are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine
Oh listen, lord, if you want to know.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

No, not just for some, oh, but just for everyone.

Now, let's all love one another okay?  

[writenow]

********THEORY**********

HOLY CRAP!!!

It just hit me..

Natalee has been kidnapped and is being ransomed.  The family knows, the Aruban authorities know, the FBI knows, but whover did it said "NO PRESS..or the girl dies."   Look at everything that fits.

1. Jug's comment about negotiations.
2. The fruitless searches (dog and pony show) and misinformation (diversions).
3. The lack of information (being blamed on the "Dutch system")
4. Beth's apparent 'belief' (knowledge) that Nat is alive.
5. The US government official's comment about sending FBI and something disturbing and the family knows.
6. Lack of body
7. 3 suspects 'silence'
8. Diario editors recent comments falling straight off the radar almost immediately (snuffed out).
9. Family's 'frustration' at not being kept informed (easy way to shift media pressure off the family)
10. The throat slashing 'message' being sent.
11.
12.
13.

What else am I leaving off?

It ALL fits.  No sex trafficking. No columbian drug cartel.  Just a simple case of kidnapping for ransom with the threat of death if 'real story' gets to the press.

I thought about that too. Good points.

[alabama_mom_of_2]

Okay, I think we need a happy moment.. I am going to blast some music for everyone.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another mountain,
There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb
There are oceans and rivers enough to cross,
Enough to last till the end of time.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another meadow
There are cornfields and wheat fields enough to grow
There are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine
Oh listen, lord, if you want to know.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

No, not just for some, oh, but just for everyone.

Now, let's all love another okay?  

nice voice Cali  

[katya]

Katya's right....a media whore.

Maybe so but I guess there's worse things in this world you could be than a "media whore" . Kidnapper, murderer, drug dealer comes to mind...

But they are not exclusive. You could be a media whore and a serial killer at the same time. To me, a media whore is someone who tries to manipulate me This congress person has absoulutely no fast track into the workings of this case; he googled his ideas just like you and me. Maybe someone else could point me in the direction to where the murder of an American, blone virgin is more important than any other death?

I'm just curious about the mystery.

[inspector_detector]

I still believe that Joran killed her....behind the Marriot after the brothers dropped him and Nat off. He than called Deepak ('I have to tell you something') for help. Deepak alone came back, took VDS and Nat back to VDS's house where they moved her body to the red jeep and took her somewhere on the island to get rid of her. I believe that VDS's father knew about it and helped. I think that all the people being questioned/arrested now are people that the police/fbi may have observed VDS talking to during the 12 days that they were free. Also could be people that sold him drugs (date rape type) I think an international kidnapping plot is a little far fetched even though anything is possible.

Possibly but what would be his motive to kill her? Wouldn't there be evidence in the jeep ( hair, blood, fibers ) ?

[KerinTX]

Okay, I think we need a happy moment.. I am going to blast some music for everyone.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another mountain,
There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb
There are oceans and rivers enough to cross,
Enough to last till the end of time.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another meadow
There are cornfields and wheat fields enough to grow
There are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine
Oh listen, lord, if you want to know.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

No, not just for some, oh, but just for everyone.

Now, let's all love one another okay?  

Thanks, Cali. Your "happy moment" along with my "happy juice" has made me quite happy.