she is alive (a theory)- ties everything together...

[jpoops]

Since I was banned from court TV message boards and they removed my theory there for no reason at all (maybe they are in on this too?), I have decided to post my theory here…


THIS IS SPECULATION

I have a theory that explains everything from the changing stories, to the new arrest, and also the new dead body.


Natalee was with JVS and the brothers and they took her to Croes (the DJ) house after they went to the beach, or wherever. Either way, they took her to Croes house for some additional “party”.

Keep in mind both the Surmanese brothers are rumored to be small time drug peddlers. Croes is the DJ on a boat that is basically a midnight booze cruise. Croes knows some shady characters due to his line of work (if anyone here has a buddy that works at a nightclub or anything they can agree that people who work night jobs like this know some SHADY characters…). So anyways, with Croes being significantly older and having the job he does, I suspect he supplies drugs to the brothers and JVS.

While they were at Croes house- Croes requested they leave Natalee with him, as they have probably done before. Croes is a date-raping drug dealer and the boys have done this before as a favor to Croes (remember, I am speculating here). A 26 year old is not connected to teenagers because they have a lot in common, these kids used to get their drugs from him and party late at his house, they also looked up to his “gangsta” style- they'd hook him up with a girl in a heartbeat, all he had to do was ask.

SO when Natalee wasn’t cooperating with Croes, he decided to take the physical rejection and turn it into a financial gain. Croes knows who makes the late night imports to the island and he knows they will take a girl in exchange for drugs without hesitation. Croes gives Natalee to his Columbian suppliers (AKA- the “real gangsters”).


So, here is how this crazy and stupid story ties EVERYTHING together. (note, Natalee may be anywhere, but my theory speculates she is alive).


JVS and the brothers lie about her getting dropped off because they don’t want to tell anyone she ended up at Croes house. Don’t forget, they respect Croes, they get their drugs from him so they don’t want to say his name. One of the brothers says, “…we thought she would end up a few days later at a crack house…” This was a typical half-truth, while he knew she was last left at Croes, which is technically a “crack house,” he did not want to use Croes name because he did not want to be a “rat.”

At this point the boys are freaked out and stories start to get closer to the truth. JVS says he was dropped off first, maybe he was (keep in mind speculation here, trying to cover EVERYTHING) and the brothers brought her to Croes, seeing as Deepak is 21, he is most-likely the one connected with Croes. None of the boys know what they hell Croes did with her but they do not want to lose his respect or have anyone find out about their small-time drug dealing.



So, where is she now? Why was Croes arrested? What’s with the new dead person and the new missing person? Why is the media so quiet and the parents are seemingly optimistic?

She is with whomever Croes gets his drugs from, or some shady character he knows. She may still be on the island, but most likely she is on a neighboring island. Croes could not get what he wanted so he got angry and took up one of his connections on an offer he had heard or participated in before- girls for drugs (or money). The people that have her were a little nervous when the 3 boys were arrested, now they are freaking out that Croes is arrested. Police nabbed Croes by digging into Deepak’s rumored drug peddling (maybe cell phone log) and it led them to Croes. The boys never ratted on Croes, but the police were able to piece it together until they found him.

Now the “real gangsters,” the guys that Croes knows from the late night imports are pissed. Croes is arrested and a new person is gruesomely murdered and another is missing the following day! The boys and Croes will not say much because they are afraid they will be killed. The dead body was a random person they picked, when they took Natalee they probably told Croes, “you tell anyone and we’ll cut your head off…” So now to prove they were not kidding, they cut someone’s head off. The person that is missing is someone that knows something (possibly).

The guys with Natalee right now want one thing- money. These guys know Natalee is not worth anything if she is dead but they also do not want to be arrested. They want the ransom money and they also do not want to be arrested. They have made it clear to the authorities that they do not want big media coverage, knowing press releases or too much information could jeopardize Natalee’s safety, the LE and the family cannot say much in interviews but it explains their attitude.

Here we have a speculative scenario that explains why the boys have changed stories and showed hesitation, how they are affiliated with a 26 year old DJ, why the DJ was arrested, why everyone seems strange in recent interviews, and finally why the recent mutilated decapitated body was found only one day after Croes was arrested.



No idea why I got banned from courtTV message boards, but people seemed to like this theory there and hopefully you will to.

And I know this is far-fetched but it DOES cover EVREYTHING.

[friend of monkeys]

Since I was banned from court TV message boards and they removed my theory there for no reason at all (maybe they are in on this too?), I have decided to post my theory here…


THIS IS SPECULATION

I have a theory that explains everything from the changing stories, to the new arrest, and also the new dead body.


Natalee was with JVS and the brothers and they took her to Croes (the DJ) house after they went to the beach, or wherever. Either way, they took her to Croes house for some additional “party”.

Keep in mind both the Surmanese brothers are rumored to be small time drug peddlers. Croes is the DJ on a boat that is basically a midnight booze cruise. Croes knows some shady characters due to his line of work (if anyone here has a buddy that works at a nightclub or anything they can agree that people who work night jobs like this know some SHADY characters…). So anyways, with Croes being significantly older and having the job he does, I suspect he supplies drugs to the brothers and JVS.

While they were at Croes house- Croes requested they leave Natalee with him, as they have probably done before. Croes is a date-raping drug dealer and the boys have done this before as a favor to Croes. A 26 year old is not connected to teenagers because they have a lot in common, these kids used to get their drugs from him and party late at his house, they also looked up to his “gangsta” style- they'd hook him up with a girl in a heartbeat, all he had to do was ask.

SO when Natalee wasn’t cooperating with Croes, he decided to take the physical rejection and turn it into a financial gain. Croes knows who makes the late night imports to the island and he knows they will take a girl in exchange for drugs without hesitation. Croes gives Natalee to his Columbian suppliers (AKA- the “real gangsters”).


So, here is how this crazy and stupid story ties EVERYTHING together. (note, Natalee may be anywhere, but my theory speculates she is alive).


JVS and the brothers lie about her getting dropped off because they don’t want to tell anyone she ended up at Croes house. Don’t forget, they respect Croes, they get their drugs from him so they don’t want to say his name. One of the brothers says, “…we thought she would end up a few days later at a crack house…” This was a typical half-truth, while he knew she was last left at Croes, which is technically a “crack house,” he did not want to use Croes name because he did not want to be a “rat.”

At this point the boys are freaked out and stories start to get closer to the truth. JVS says he was dropped off first, maybe he was (keep in mind speculation here, trying to cover EVERYTHING) and the brothers brought her to Croes, seeing as Deepak is 21, he is most-likely the one connected with Croes. None of the boys know what they hell Croes did with her but they do not want to lose his respect or have anyone find out about their small-time drug dealing.



So, where is she now? Why was Croes arrested? What’s with the new dead person and the new missing person? Why is the media so quiet and the parents are seemingly optimistic?

She is with whomever Croes gets his drugs from, or some shady character he knows. She may still be on the island, but most likely she is on a neighboring island. Croes could not get what he wanted so he got angry and took up one of his connections on an offer he had heard or participated in before- girls for drugs (or money). The people that have her were a little nervous when the 3 boys were arrested, now they are freaking out that Croes is arrested. Police nabbed Croes by digging into Deepak’s rumored drug peddling (maybe cell phone log) and it led them to Croes. The boys never ratted on Croes, but the police were able to piece it together until they found him.

Now the “real gangsters,” the guys that Croes knows from the late night imports are pissed. Croes is arrested and a new person is gruesomely murdered and another is missing the following day! The boys and Croes will not say much because they are afraid they will be killed. The dead body was a random person they picked, when they took Natalee they probably told Croes, “you tell anyone and we’ll cut your head off…” So now to prove they were not kidding, they cut someone’s head off. The person that is missing is someone that knows something (possibly).

The guys with Natalee right now want one thing- money. These guys know Natalee is not worth anything if she is dead but they also do not want to be arrested. They want the ransom money and they also do not want to be arrested. They have made it clear to the authorities that they do not want big media coverage, knowing press releases or too much information could jeopardize Natalee’s safety, the LE and the family cannot say much in interviews but it explains their attitude.

Here we have a speculative scenario that explains why the boys have changed stories and showed hesitation, how they are affiliated with a 26 year old DJ, why the DJ was arrested, why everyone seems strange in recent interviews, and finally why the recent mutilated decapitated body was found only one day after Croes was arrested.



No idea why I got banned from courtTV message boards, but people seemed to like this theory there and hopefully you will to.

And I know this is far-fetched but it DOES cover EVREYTHING.

all good speculation, friend...yes it fits nicely...
however  "unofficial""


thank you for posting.

[INK]

I think it's an excellent theory. I also posted a very speculative theory, but yours is much more detailed and therefore even more plausible.

BTW, I also noticed that her parents seem to be what I would call cautiously optimistic, as if they are pretty sure she is okay.

[Michael22]

Since I was banned from court TV message boards and they removed my theory there for no reason at all (maybe they are in on this too?), I have decided to post my theory here…


THIS IS SPECULATION

I have a theory that explains everything from the changing stories, to the new arrest, and also the new dead body.


Natalee was with JVS and the brothers and they took her to Croes (the DJ) house after they went to the beach, or wherever. Either way, they took her to Croes house for some additional “party”.

Keep in mind both the Surmanese brothers are rumored to be small time drug peddlers. Croes is the DJ on a boat that is basically a midnight booze cruise. Croes knows some shady characters due to his line of work (if anyone here has a buddy that works at a nightclub or anything they can agree that people who work night jobs like this know some SHADY characters…). So anyways, with Croes being significantly older and having the job he does, I suspect he supplies drugs to the brothers and JVS.

While they were at Croes house- Croes requested they leave Natalee with him, as they have probably done before. Croes is a date-raping drug dealer and the boys have done this before as a favor to Croes. A 26 year old is not connected to teenagers because they have a lot in common, these kids used to get their drugs from him and party late at his house, they also looked up to his “gangsta” style- they'd hook him up with a girl in a heartbeat, all he had to do was ask.

SO when Natalee wasn’t cooperating with Croes, he decided to take the physical rejection and turn it into a financial gain. Croes knows who makes the late night imports to the island and he knows they will take a girl in exchange for drugs without hesitation. Croes gives Natalee to his Columbian suppliers (AKA- the “real gangsters”).


So, here is how this crazy and stupid story ties EVERYTHING together. (note, Natalee may be anywhere, but my theory speculates she is alive).


JVS and the brothers lie about her getting dropped off because they don’t want to tell anyone she ended up at Croes house. Don’t forget, they respect Croes, they get their drugs from him so they don’t want to say his name. One of the brothers says, “…we thought she would end up a few days later at a crack house…” This was a typical half-truth, while he knew she was last left at Croes, which is technically a “crack house,” he did not want to use Croes name because he did not want to be a “rat.”

At this point the boys are freaked out and stories start to get closer to the truth. JVS says he was dropped off first, maybe he was (keep in mind speculation here, trying to cover EVERYTHING) and the brothers brought her to Croes, seeing as Deepak is 21, he is most-likely the one connected with Croes. None of the boys know what they hell Croes did with her but they do not want to lose his respect or have anyone find out about their small-time drug dealing.



So, where is she now? Why was Croes arrested? What’s with the new dead person and the new missing person? Why is the media so quiet and the parents are seemingly optimistic?

She is with whomever Croes gets his drugs from, or some shady character he knows. She may still be on the island, but most likely she is on a neighboring island. Croes could not get what he wanted so he got angry and took up one of his connections on an offer he had heard or participated in before- girls for drugs (or money). The people that have her were a little nervous when the 3 boys were arrested, now they are freaking out that Croes is arrested. Police nabbed Croes by digging into Deepak’s rumored drug peddling (maybe cell phone log) and it led them to Croes. The boys never ratted on Croes, but the police were able to piece it together until they found him.

Now the “real gangsters,” the guys that Croes knows from the late night imports are pissed. Croes is arrested and a new person is gruesomely murdered and another is missing the following day! The boys and Croes will not say much because they are afraid they will be killed. The dead body was a random person they picked, when they took Natalee they probably told Croes, “you tell anyone and we’ll cut your head off…” So now to prove they were not kidding, they cut someone’s head off. The person that is missing is someone that knows something (possibly).

The guys with Natalee right now want one thing- money. These guys know Natalee is not worth anything if she is dead but they also do not want to be arrested. They want the ransom money and they also do not want to be arrested. They have made it clear to the authorities that they do not want big media coverage, knowing press releases or too much information could jeopardize Natalee’s safety, the LE and the family cannot say much in interviews but it explains their attitude.

Here we have a speculative scenario that explains why the boys have changed stories and showed hesitation, how they are affiliated with a 26 year old DJ, why the DJ was arrested, why everyone seems strange in recent interviews, and finally why the recent mutilated decapitated body was found only one day after Croes was arrested.



No idea why I got banned from courtTV message boards, but people seemed to like this theory there and hopefully you will to.

And I know this is far-fetched but it DOES cover EVREYTHING.

wow
jpoops
take a look at this..
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=22

[FeliX]

JPoops....

Can't imagine why you were banned from Courtv...Ahem.
Your thoughts border on slander.....

[INK]

FeliX, Who did he slander? I thought it was very well thought out.

[Alex]

I doubt that Croes the DJ needs these guys or any one else to get him a woman.

[jpoops]

SLANDER?


GO BACK TO SCHOOL SON!


Damn... Slander in the written form is referred to as LIBEL.

And as long as I am NOT stating my OPINION as FACT and DEFAMINNG someone's character I can write whatever I want- Thoughts and opinions cannot qualify as Libel, notice I CLEARLY wrote that it was SPECULATION?

Where do people come up with these paranoid ideas about "slander"? Did you know that to get anything from a defamation of character legal motion the plantiff needs to prove that the other party caused them lost wages or emotional distress due to their comments? And also, did you know that action cannot be taken against people for voicing opinions? Judges won't even look at libel cases anymore unless there is significant financial damage to be evaluated as a result of fabricated derrogatory comments, which must be presented as FACT for a case to exist. too many wimps had abused these cases in he past, you'd have better luck trying the "finger in the chili", "syringe in the Pepsi", or "McDonalds coffee Crotch-Pour" than you would suing for slander or libel. In your fantasy-land world every movie critic and restaraunt-reviewer wuld be in jail for stating their opinions, even though their opinions DO cause lost wages because it is their opinions they are sheltered from legal action. God Bless the 1st amendment- I can voice my opinion and speculate! Forget about posting theories on suspected killers- I can go post my opinion on my federal or local government and no one can stop me! ... but I am not really too hot on politics, so I will stick to the NH/Aruba stuff...

There have also been several cases regarding Internet forum slander that have been shot down in court, see below:

http://marcebrown.com/decisions/batzel.htm

Batzel v. Smith, 2003 US App.LEXIS 12736 (9th Cir. 2003). The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a listserv moderator and operator of a website that allegedly published defamatory material provided by a third party is eligible for immunity under the Communications Decency Act (CDA). The case revolves around an email sent by Robert Smith claiming that the plaintiff Batzel was a descendant of Heinrich Himmler and possessed looted paintings. The recipient of the email, Tom Cremers, who was the director of the Musuem Security Network, edited the email and posted it on the Network's website and listserv. Batzel filed suit against both men for defamation. The court held that Cremers was immune from liability under the CDA. The court noted that because Cremer did no more than select and make minor alterations to the email, he cannot be considered a content provider.



http://www.perkinscoie.com/casedigest/icd_results.cfm?keyword1=defamation&topic=Defamation

Bidbay.com Inc. v. Spry, No. B160126 (Cal. Ct. App, 2d App. Dist., 2003). A California court ruled on Internet chat rooms and the First Amendment. Plaintiff Bidbay.com brought a suit for defamation against Bruce Spry for posting allegedly libelous statements in an online chat room. Spry moved to dismiss the action under California's anti-strategic lawsuits against public participation law (Anti-SLAPP law). California's Anti-SLAPP law allows courts to strike causes of action arising from a defendant's exercise of free speech in a public forum in connection with a public issue. Bidbay.com argued that the Anti-SLAPP law did not apply because the online chat room was not a public forum because it had prevented Bidbay from posting a rebuttal to the statements. The court disagreed and dismissed the case stating that an online chat room is a public forum, even if the operator of the chat room controls the content of the statements posted on the site.


http://techlawadvisor.com/caselaw/batzel_smith.doc

I quote the link:

There is no reason inherent in the technological features of cyberspace why First Amendment and defamation law should apply differently in cyberspace than in the brick and mortar world. Congress, however, has chosen for policy reasons to immunize from liability for defamatory or obscene speech "providers and users of interactive computer services"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In short, even if I plastered this post all over town on paper signs in people's yards, because I clearly stated it is SPECULATION I am not producing anything Libelous (slander in the written form).

But on the Internet, even if I decided to post this stuff and lie, saying it is all true, there are court rulings that would back me as not being guilty.


I clearly stated my disclaimer that this is my opinion (synonymous with speculation) so there is no libel here.

Maybe I got banned because I get aggressive when people post dumb comments about things they don't know much about... hmmm...


At least I always go out with a bang.

[columbo]

Good theory. I have found Natalee's parents demeanor to be calm and collected, which hasn't made sense since the beginning. Perhaps, your theory is correct and they know she is alive, but just need to locate her (hopefully).

The arrest of Croes has thrown a new loop into the investigation and FOX reported tonight the police became familiar with him thru the internet cafe that Depoke worked for. Maybe the cafe was used by Croes to deal drugs. All of these boys have pictures posted on the internet using "gangsta" signs, which may have more meaning than we think.

The decapitated body may well be signal to the boys to keep quiet. For an Island that claims they have a small murder rate, what are the odds of someone being murdered DURING a world wide media frenzy surrounding the investigation of a missing person?  

Also, since Croes worked on the Tattoo, he had access to a boat. He may have been able to move Natalee to another location secretly overnight.

Let's hope your theory is correct and Natalee is found alive.

[jpoops]

Well, if "Columbo" thinks it's a good theory then I am happy! Look, he even has a caption!



did someone really use the term slander? And I thought I saw it all...



Love the username- nice choice...

And the dumbest thing they did at Court TV boards was remove my theory... this thing was getting tons of feedback (positive) and lots of reads... just this one guy was being a jerk and I think he got me banned because I called him a Dinosaur brain...

[columbo]

LMAO!! Great pic of me!

Thanks for the laugh Jpoops....

[jpoops]

yeah, I thought you'd like that...

[columbo]

Yeah, calling someone dinosaur brain is real offensive.    

Your theory is excellent Jpoops and don't let those bird brains (oops) at court tv tell you otherwise.

[jpoops]

thanks- I just hope I am right...


It's far fetched, but how else can you tie EVERYTHING together?!

You know what I mean?


It's crazy and reads like a cheesey B-movie, but my theory leave no loose ends...

[columbo]

Not far fetched at all. It really does tie everything together. I was trying to think of the signifigance of Croes (being a DJ) and how he fit into the whole investitgation.. If he does turn out to be a drug dealer, your theory makes sense.

My question now is, how did he get her off the Island? The Tattoo? How would he get it back to Aruba in time the next day? Did he make a tranfer at sea with Columbia/Venezuela drug dealers? Wouldn't there be a cost gaurd recording of this? Or is she still in Aruba?

[jpoops]

Cigarette boats (AKA speedboats) make drug runs all night- from what I have heard, he could have been meeting his supplier at the beach, and instead of cash maybe he gave them Natalee...

Or, maybe the exchange didn't hold place and she is on the island somewhere being held captive...


I guess I can only speculate to a certain point, for all we know she could be anywhere...


I think drugs are a big income for the island too... Almost like cigarettes for our government. They say their biggest financial draw is "tourism"... I have never been to Aruba, but I hear that drugs are easy to get there. While tourism is big, selling drugs to tourists is even bigger, and officials are taxing it, getting rich off it, and turning a blind eye to it- despite the fact it's "illegal." Govt, police, judges in training... you know, "officials..."

It's like how Cigarettes are being banned at public places, but we will never ever see them pulled off shelves no matter how many people die of lung cancer- Our governmant needs the tax dollars too much to outlaw what is bad for us. The drugs are a big seller to tourists, but now the bad things that go along with them are coming out.

The more the Aruban police "tax" the drug trade, the smaller that profit margin for the dealer becomes, and as a result people will be getting killed and kidnapped to make up for the money going to "taxes."

Again, all SPECULATION and OPINION here.




EDIT:

With the upcoming law suit and search team the theory of Aruban officials covering things up is explained with the speculation they tax the drugs. Maybe they had to leave a lot of details out of the police reports because it could jeopordize more than the suspects reputations... I assume they will make it hard for Natalee's mom to get details of the report, and I think it relates to the Aruban governement covering their own ass down there...

[columbo]

Got ya.....good work Jpoop. You should get your a$$ down to Aruba and crack this case!

I have been to Aruba a few times and it truly is beautiful. However, the last time I was there, I was approached by a dealer while sitting poolside at the Raddisson.....security chased him away immediately. I've hung out at C&C's quite a few times as well (had a great time), but on my last trip, I did feel like the area outside C&C's (after it closed) had become seedier since my previous visits. Lots of "characters" hanging around in the alleys, etc.

[Thumper56]

I don't see all this calmness others see in Natalee's mother.I see resolve.I believe she is finally coming to grips with the possibility her daughter was murdered and her emotion is now one of "justice for Natalee"...This is all part of the grieving process.First unbelievable agony and then rage..I see it manifesting..

[jpoops]

I don't see all this calmness others see in Natalee's mother.I see resolve.I believe she is finally coming to grips with the possibility her daughter was murdered and her emotion is now one of "justice for Natalee"...This is all part of the grieving process.First unbelievable agony and then rage..I see it manifesting..

you could be correct...


I do suggest reading the post halfway down the page at the following link though:

http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?threadid=228256&perpage=10&pagenumber=2


In a way, we live in such a small world- you can fly from Boston, have dinner in London, and fly back all in a day... But if you get lost on a tiny island you are just a tiny needle in a haystack.

If our frigging army cannot find bin laden I really begin to doubt if volunteers and family will be able to ever find Natalie. I am troubled by the story in the link I posted, makes me fear Nat may be a slave for the next 40 years...

Life really can change in the blink of an eye- I really wish there was a rewind button on this whole "life" movie we act out...

[BlueKyGirl]

I posted this in a section of the Theory and Speculation section, under the thread titled "Larger investigation involving other crimes," but it seems relevant here, too. Here's what I posted:

I'm by no means a normal conspiracy theorist, but I think this case became bigger than just a date-rape-gone-bad the second Steve Croes entered the picture. The rest of the boys seem like high school students doing normal things for their age; I'm not implying they're not capable of heinous crimes, but I'm not assuming they are either.

I think Croes is the key to finding out what happened, because I see him as an adult who might have had connections to the seedy underside of Aruba that the boys had only glimpsed. Maybe something went wrong with Natalee (date rape drug overdoes, for example) and they needed Croes' help; maybe they owed Croes something (hasn't it been rumored that he was known for selling drugs at times?)

The details of this case don't add up, especially when you start to throw in other variables like Croes (who knew Deepak from an Internet cafe, presumably a place where e-mails could be sent anonymously), this Lorenzo Van Rijn person, the recent decapitation of 33-year-old Rene Van Heyningen in a cemetery, the Venezuelan human trafficking connection, and the drug culture that seems to be present on the island.

These boys don't seem to be cracking under pressure (although, for all I know, maybe they have by now), but I'm starting to think the're just little gangster wannabes whom we have possibly overestimated. Maybe they got in over their heads; they seem to be from prominent families; maybe they were attracted to the drug culture and got sucked into something much bigger than themselves--and pulled Natalee in with them