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Author Topic: RBN # 15 - 6/21/05  (Read 314692 times)
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Rob
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« Reply #120 on: June 21, 2005, 09:13:38 AM »

Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "mojo"
so Rob are you going on the assumption that the prosecutor's office in this case will continue to detain these guys the maximum amount of time allowed and then charge them.

from a prosecutorial POV this would indeed give them time to get their ducks in a row IMO


i m  under the impression that nothing is coming out, unless there is a leak.. but i think that is highly unlikely..


Under normal circumstances they only way you can get 'official' information about what happend to miss Holloway is:
a)when her body is found. That means the JD confirms officially that she is found dead, and has been killed.



b)she is found alive and giving somekind of statement to the press
c)the first day of trial, 'pro forma'. That is when the procecutor will officially indict the suspects. Some details about how she is killed will emerge then.

I don't think in this case it will be different. MSM barrage or not.


one thing i do respect about the dutch system is, that misinterpertations are few...the fact are the facts....




sorry gerban i wrote in your margin...
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« Reply #121 on: June 21, 2005, 09:14:02 AM »

Good morning.  Still not confirmation on the suicide attempt or who it was.  Some experts have said Fox and the other cable outfits cover this stuff because it is cheap programming.  A talking head and a few paid "experts" and you got a show that can go on for hours and hours without ever stating a new fact and there is no fear of competition from the serious press so it is an exclusive.  The problem is if it goes on and on without resolution.  Then you face the dilemma of dropping the story like a hot rock whichh will happen as soon as something else comes up.  I wonder who the target audience is.  

Here is  the morning paper:    

http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am21jun05.pdf

Look at the comments on the latest monkeys update page Greta and Mrs. Twitty.  It discusses the interrogation of Joran at his house Tuesday AM by the Alabama posse that had to be broken up by police and an encounter during that dust up between Joran and Mrs. Twitty.  She denied it happened in an earlier interview and has now described in detail.  The  Twittys do not like Joran and his Dad.   There is some indication that the pro-active Alabama folks may have contaminated the investigation in their zeal to get to the botom of Natalees disappearance.  It would have been enough to identify Joran to the police.  Also note the Mr. v/d Sloot is a public prosecutor on Aruba.  Here are two I like:  
 
Neil Says:
June 20th, 2005 at 11:16 pm
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Natalee’s mom approach to Joran probably shut down any possibility of anything but a defensive response.

She was understandably highly emotional state, and the best I can say it, was she probably was throwing a tantrum. Anyone around her who felt accused would likely respond negatively, and that is exactly what Joran and family probably did.

Too bad the police did not take Joran in right on the spot to interview him without Natalies family present.

All this hatred and venom is not good.

Scott Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 1:42 am
As a professor of forensic psychology, i believe this case is unlikely to be solved by the Aruban police. They have obtained no forensic evidence that i am aware of. There is also no body to be found which, in most criminal cases, is the single most important piece of evidence to analyze/profile. Additionally, while an investigation is going on, you never, ever allow anyone related to a victim speak with a suspect. never, ever. With a skilled interrogator, i.e. the US FBI/Quantico contingent… you might still be able to get the truth from one of the three boys. But, the fact that there appears to be no evidence, weekens the position of interrogator considerably. From a purely psychological point of view based on statements made by all three parties (Van Der Sloot and the 2 brothers) that i have read, i would place the highest probability of guilt on J. Van Der Sloot. However, in a court of law, probability and proof are entirely 2 different phenomena.
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Kelly
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« Reply #122 on: June 21, 2005, 09:14:12 AM »

Im sure everyone has seen this but i thought it was interesting and very happy that the family is really goin at the govt, or whoever it is that is in charge of allowin evidence to be seen!  They are her family, and deserve to know, obviously they are not going to talk to media about the evidence with there being a chance at that hurting the investigation and maybe causin the investigation to fail! So it hink its safe to let her poor family know!!!!!!!!!!

Holloway's Family Prepares Lawsuit to Demand Evidence

Tuesday, June 21, 2005
 

   
ORANJESTAD, Aruba — The family of Natalee Holloway (search) moved to take matters in their own hands Monday, preparing a lawsuit to demand evidence in the case and hiring a Texas company to search for the 18-year-old, who vanished three weeks ago in Aruba.
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Kelly
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« Reply #123 on: June 21, 2005, 09:16:08 AM »

Good Morning All,
 Laughing   anything new Question
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #124 on: June 21, 2005, 09:17:19 AM »

For absolut, if you're around - excellent work on your news feed. Thank you so much for taking the time and sharing it with others.
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MominTN
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« Reply #125 on: June 21, 2005, 09:17:33 AM »

Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
This lawsuit will not even reach the court formally while the investigation is still ongoing.  The family having acces to policerecords even before miss Holloway is found is unheard of and might even jeopardize the case in court. So why bother suing now?.  The results of the investigation can only be given formally to the family after the investigation is closed. That means, miss Holloway is either found or still missing with the suspects confessing a murder.

I don't see any legal problems in mounting a search on the Island. Everybody is free to look around on the Island. But they will not get access to records of the police and JD.


tv (think cnn) this morning describing their motion is to join the prosecution as a victims rep to gain more access to the process.  they say this is automatic in the dutch system.  is that true?


Yes, as a victim of a very serious crime, or surviving next of kin you have limited rights to be involved in the trialprocedures. You can get 'spreekrecht' the right to tell directly to the suspect how his criminal act has impacted your life. However, there are limitations to this, so Natalee's family must not set their hopes on complete access during trial.


Perhaps the family think the authorities have information that could lead them in the direction of finding Natalee.  Maybe they would spend more time or money searching or hiring investigators to search, if they had some idea of where they put her.  By the time the trial is over, her body could be decomposed or she could have been moved many times and her trail lost.  After 3 weeks, people may begin to think the Aruba police aren't doing everything they can do to find her.
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absolut
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« Reply #126 on: June 21, 2005, 09:18:47 AM »

Quote from: "goon squad"
<<i wonder if this search team will get resistance or be restricted....afterall, they are going to a foreign country.......imagine if a team from france wanted to come here to look for a lost citizen in florida because they thought the US was doing a poor job on the investigation.>>


Imagine this sound bite:

"We brought in an elite search and recovery team to cover places that could not reached before.  But the Aruban government wouldn't let it do its job."

My guess: Texas EquuSearch will not be hassled.


Don't be so sure. Oddly enough there may not be horses involved with this team even if they are allowed to search.
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BlueKyGirl
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« Reply #127 on: June 21, 2005, 09:19:37 AM »

I'd read the story about the Twittys going to the Van Der Sloot household on the boards yesterday; I also saw Beth Twitty's interview on Greta Van Sustern last night.

Didn't she say Joran hit his chest and said, "What do you want me to do?" I don't understand the significance of him hitting his chest. Who does that? It's definitely not a mannerism or a signal that I understand, but it sounds sort of scary.
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iquitos
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« Reply #128 on: June 21, 2005, 09:19:58 AM »

amigoe in english

Aruba extra vulnerable by dependency dollar economy

ARUBA – How autonomous can a country be, when it clings on to the dollar economy like grim death?  Is that indeed this advantageous when the economy of the United States ends up in a dropping trend?  During an international conference in the Holiday Inn of the FTA union, the Central Bank of Aruba, and the University of Aruba, Randall Dodd, manager of the Financial Policy Forum & Derivates Study Center in Washington clarified this some more.

“With a cheaper dollar, Aruba is an attractive tourist destination for Europeans.  However, when the mutual ratio of the exchange rates change, also the market changes, either for the better or for the worst”, said Dodd.  When the US is in a recession, less inhabitants of that country will go on vacation to foreign destinations.  By being completely dependent on the American tourist market, Aruba looses her flexibility.”  Dodd indicated that it is therefore very important for the Aruban policy makers to understand the economic trends of the US.  The housing sector is positive.  The real estate prices have never been this high.  Many mortgages are being refinanced.  The retail expenses have increased in the past years.  Also the operating profits have increased considerably after 2001.  The question is according to Dodd, whether this growth will continue and for how long.

At the same time he pointed out a few factors that give a more dejected image.  During the recession of 2001, the employment dropped drastically.  It’s true that it had recovered, but a growth is hardly perceptible.  Besides, the average time a person is unemployed has increased with 10 percent.  According to Dodd, the salaries show a dropping trend.  The car sales have dropped considerably after a short increase after September 11th, and the orders for long lasting products stayed behind.  A bad futuristic view can be derived from an increase of the stocks.  He also points out the vulnerability in the American economy by the growth of the government debt, which is currently already 80 percent of the Gross Domestic Product.  In Aruba this is 45 percent.  According to him, the American debt can continue to grow, but not for ever.  Another bad sign is that the consumer confidence in the US is dropping.  As vacation destination, Aruba can offer a few advantages.  Important is that Aruba is located close to the US.  We still have to take into account that Americans will travel less if the current trend continues.
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mojo
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« Reply #129 on: June 21, 2005, 09:20:01 AM »

that's a distressing analysis iquitos. i'm hoping scott's wrong.
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« Reply #130 on: June 21, 2005, 09:20:44 AM »

iquitos, i think you have hit on something here... no body means basicily no conviction, hence the interrogation of father vd sloot...i think they are trying to figure out what happened to the body...hence the murder charges. i m  leaning to the possiblitiy that she may have been dumped at sea.. i hope im wrong...
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« Reply #131 on: June 21, 2005, 09:21:20 AM »

Quote from: "LilOrphan"
For absolut, if you're around - excellent work on your news feed. Thank you so much for taking the time and sharing it with others.


Thanks, I look forward to working with the "Monkeys" going forward with whatever direction this all leads. I hope you all do to.
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BarStine
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« Reply #132 on: June 21, 2005, 09:21:59 AM »

So many theories abound...

Not much revelation...

I thinks the speculation needs to be simplified. There is not a great timeline of events of the evening and of her first day(s) missing(that we are clued in on). Speculation would need to be based on what three bonehead teens would do in a panic situation. I doubt if concealing a dead body(if thats what happened) was entirely masterminded and may have been done in a hurry.

Is it possible a body was recovered and it is highly secret? (I think this since Aruba LE is so tight lipped, that she could be in a holding freezer and autopsied already, just no concise confessions from detainees.  Then there are rumors of pending murder charges already, so why would they put the cart before the horse...)

My other train of thought is that she could have been taken off in a chain of custody but evidence and rumor we know so far seems weaker to point to that.

Was dads vehicle used to transport her?  Any sand, dirt, rocks, vegetation... recovered from impounded vehicles with clues as to where vehicles traveled?

This case is very tough for the armchair detective since nothing of major
import is revealed by investigators.
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« Reply #133 on: June 21, 2005, 09:22:01 AM »

Quote from: "Kelly"
Im sure everyone has seen this but i thought it was interesting and very happy that the family is really goin at the govt, or whoever it is that is in charge of allowin evidence to be seen!  They are her family, and deserve to know, obviously they are not going to talk to media about the evidence with there being a chance at that hurting the investigation and maybe causin the investigation to fail! So it hink its safe to let her poor family know!!!!!!!!!!

I agree Kelly, IMHO if this family had not been so persistent, this case would have been swept under the rug.
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« Reply #134 on: June 21, 2005, 09:22:05 AM »

Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
I'd read the story about the Twittys going to the Van Der Sloot household on the boards yesterday; I also saw Beth Twitty's interview on Greta Van Sustern last night.

Didn't she say Joran hit his chest and said, "What do you want me to do?" I don't understand the significance of him hitting his chest. Who does that? It's definitely not a mannerism or a signal that I understand, but it sounds sort of scary.


Maybe like they said before she was in a VERY emotional state, liek any mother w/a lsot child, and she "attacked" joran for info and Joran just hit his chest and said that...maybe she accused him of somethign I dont see it as scary I jsut see it as someone being defensive...I do it al the time like when we loose soemthing at home and ofcourse eferyone asks me (the motehr) I put my hand to my chest and be like "ME???I never used that! you should know where you put it!" I thiknk its just a manner of speaking ....and the dutch have a way jsut like the italians they almost "talk" with their hands
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« Reply #135 on: June 21, 2005, 09:22:53 AM »

rob can i get some coffee pleeeezzeee! Rolling Eyes
u guyz go way 2 fst 4 me....
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« Reply #136 on: June 21, 2005, 09:22:54 AM »

I did watch Greta last evening as per usual.  I enjoy following her reports just because she seems to be more logical in how she questions people.  Of course, with her being an attorney and coming from a family where legal matters were discussed around home doesn't hurt either.  I have followed her career for a long time.  She graduated from the same high school as my kids.  Her father was the judge we needed to go through for the adoption of our first child.  He handled many various types of cases over his many years on the bench, so I would suspect that Greta really does understand the system very well.  Even though the legal systems are a bit different.  I think her questions reflect her anticipated unfamiliarity of her listeners rather than her own.
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« Reply #137 on: June 21, 2005, 09:23:58 AM »

How is this team from Tx going to bring horses into Aruba? I would think it would not be easy to just bring animals in from one country to another (dogs, included as well).  Countrys have very strict rules about animals being brought in due to disease, etc
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Kelly
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« Reply #138 on: June 21, 2005, 09:24:00 AM »

BLueKyGirl- the mother met with joran recently? please tell
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Kelly
Rob
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« Reply #139 on: June 21, 2005, 09:24:26 AM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
rob can i get some coffee pleeeezzeee! Rolling Eyes
u guyz go way 2 fst 4 me....



this coffee is from trinidad....
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