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Author Topic: RBN # 15 - 6/21/05  (Read 315589 times)
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CancunMole
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« Reply #360 on: June 21, 2005, 11:46:02 AM »

Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "icey"
>>>I have also heard that some have said the boys have changed their statement yet, again - suggesting that Natalee was left alone at the beach after becoming hysterical at the beach near the Marriot. If true, this version of a statement suggests that the elder Kalpoe, Deepak, dropped off both Joran and Satish before returning to the beach, where he was reportedly unable to find Natalee Holloway. (This more-or-less supports CaliGirl's theory)<<<<<

If this is the "current story", it's just as bad as the others...  Why was she "hysterical"? Could it be because you raped her and/or drugged her up? You mean you did'nt call the police to help this "hysterical" girl??  You just walked away from her at what 2am???  

If it's true that the story has changed again, I think it will further prove to a judge that something is wrong here.  Too many lies, as documented by the suspects and the father.

icey


None of this really makes sense with what we know to be true already.  We know she was with these 3.  We know they lied about this Holiday Inn story from the beginning (Joran actually going there and showing the exact spot where they dropped her off).  We know they lied about the security guards.  We know now that they have all started pointing fingers at each other as to who was the last one with her until Joran finally (supposedly) admits that he was the last one with her but left her sleeping on the beach.  None of it makes sense and none of the stories even add up.  I still believe at least Joran and Deepak, have my doubts about Satish, are completely involved in this entire mess.  BUT, that is only my opinion and I am certainly not an expert in this case... Laughing


How do we know that they have changed their story? Not one thing has been published by the Investigative team nor can it be by Dutch Law. The only story changes we know about are rumors and hearsay. [/b]
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pinto
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« Reply #361 on: June 21, 2005, 11:46:06 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "a Troll"
Any confirmation of this (from the comments section on the Greta topic on the front page):

crs Says:

June 21st, 2005 at 11:32 am
On the radio right now, it is said, Croes said that he saw the three boys drop off NH at the Holiday Inn and that is why he came under suspicion.


this is interesting.  which radio?  So Croes tells the cops he saw them drop her off at HI after they say they did not go there afterall.  Sweet.


Whoops. I guess he was in on the original story. Didn't get the memo that it was no longer operational.
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littletxlady
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« Reply #362 on: June 21, 2005, 11:46:15 AM »

Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "littletxlady"
Quote from: "veme"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "veme"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "veme"
I have got a question maybe someone can answer regarding the Texas Equine S&R.

How are the horse transported?

Is the plane made up like a stock trailer?

Do the horses need to be preped before a flight? Change in feed or water? Sedated?

Does a vet go with the group?

How many horses are going?

 Just wondering. I've got animals & know the kinds of stuff you can into moving them. God Bless Texas.
Thanks! Smile

I don't think they are taking horses, they are taking dogs and sonar equipment.


Thanks! I didn't  know. I just assumed it was horses. Smile


I'm betting they'll take the horses. They'll be useful in the hard-to-reach places. See my above post.

If they dont take horses it might be they are planning on gaining use of horses already on the island.

I wouldn't think so.  There is an old saying to the effect " A horse & rider share a great secret". It has to do with the understanding that a particular horse has with a particular rider.
A horse & rider  work like a team/couple. There is a great amount of affection on both sides. That type of work wouldn't be the best time to "switch horses". Smile

Ditto
There is another old saying "Don't swithch horses in the middle of the steam"
Horses and owners have an unspoken and almost magical relationship with each other.


Too true...but like I said, competent riders should be able to ride any horse. So it's possible that they could be using island horses.


Oh of course a competent rider can ride almost any horse, but I would imagine that their horses and owners are trained for situations such as this one. JMHO   Wink
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Gerben aka Pays Bas
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« Reply #363 on: June 21, 2005, 11:46:46 AM »

Quote from: "Sleeks"
Well let's be hopeful today once the search party from Texas gets there - they will be able to get more insite.


But you guys have te remember that these Texans are guests on the Island, like any turist and most dutch officials, exept for the governor and his advisors. The search- and rescueteam probably will get some 'informal' help from the Aruban government. But if they break the law by trespassing and harrassing the locals they will be removed from the Island.

/edited for spelling, wich by the way is way better than your dutch!
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Angiex911dsptchr
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« Reply #364 on: June 21, 2005, 11:46:51 AM »

There is a jugde now on Fox.. saying NH parents probbaly arnt going to be sucessful in filing a lawsuit although she dont blame them for wanting to do so. Also the other men.. the international law experts said it probably wouldnt happen either.. and it woudnt fly here in the US either.. that stinks.. those guys were on earlier. Damn
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LemonDrop
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« Reply #365 on: June 21, 2005, 11:47:03 AM »

Quote


Their ratings are not declining. There was a post last night that had them versus CNN and MSNBC and its 2:1 viewership.


Hi, I'm new here!   Very Happy  Boy this thread moves fast. Anyway, I agree with you that Fox News ratings are high- I think that the fact Greta stays with a story till it's completed helps her with the ratings. No one likes an incomplete story, at least I don't!
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mbhs05
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« Reply #366 on: June 21, 2005, 11:47:53 AM »

Quote from: "littletxlady"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "littletxlady"
Quote from: "veme"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "veme"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "veme"
I have got a question maybe someone can answer regarding the Texas Equine S&R.

How are the horse transported?

Is the plane made up like a stock trailer?

Do the horses need to be preped before a flight? Change in feed or water? Sedated?

Does a vet go with the group?

How many horses are going?

 Just wondering. I've got animals & know the kinds of stuff you can into moving them. God Bless Texas.
Thanks! Smile

I don't think they are taking horses, they are taking dogs and sonar equipment.


Thanks! I didn't  know. I just assumed it was horses. Smile


I'm betting they'll take the horses. They'll be useful in the hard-to-reach places. See my above post.

If they dont take horses it might be they are planning on gaining use of horses already on the island.

I wouldn't think so.  There is an old saying to the effect " A horse & rider share a great secret". It has to do with the understanding that a particular horse has with a particular rider.
A horse & rider  work like a team/couple. There is a great amount of affection on both sides. That type of work wouldn't be the best time to "switch horses". Smile

Ditto
There is another old saying "Don't swithch horses in the middle of the steam"
Horses and owners have an unspoken and almost magical relationship with each other.


Too true...but like I said, competent riders should be able to ride any horse. So it's possible that they could be using island horses.


Oh of course a competent rider can ride almost any horse, but I would imagine that their horses and owners are trained for situations such as this one. JMHO   Wink


But something is always better than nothing! Ahhhh I don't speak internet. JMHO?
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Angiex911dsptchr
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« Reply #367 on: June 21, 2005, 11:48:47 AM »

Quote from: "LemonDrop"
Quote


Their ratings are not declining. There was a post last night that had them versus CNN and MSNBC and its 2:1 viewership.


Hi, I'm new here!   Very Happy  Boy this thread moves fast. Anyway, I agree with you that Fox News ratings are high- I think that the fact Greta stays with a story till it's completed helps her with the ratings. No one likes an incomplete story, at least I don't!


Hello there Lemondrop..
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clevfan1234
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« Reply #368 on: June 21, 2005, 11:49:23 AM »

The animals must be accompanied by a U.S. Origin Health Certificate issued by a veterinarian authorized by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and endorsed by a Veterinary Services (VS) veterinarian. The certificate shall contain the name and address of the consignor and the consignee, and complete identification of the animals to be exported. Additional certification shall include: CERTIFICATION STATEMENTS1. The United States is free from contagious ovine pleuropneumonia (Mycoplasma mycoides), East coast fever, foot-and-mouth disease, heartwater, louping ill, Nairobi disease, peste des petits ruminants, rinderpest and sheep pox. 2. The animal(s) was (were) born and raised in the United States or were resident for not less than 90 days. 3. In the herd of origin no animal(s) with clinical signs of ovine progressive pneumonia (OPP, Maedi-Visna) or scrapie has (have) been detected during the past 3 years. No goat from a herd of inferior health status was introduced into this (these) herd(s) during this period. 4. The animal(s) is (are) in good health, physically sound and free from clinical signs of infectious disease including freedom from any symptoms of caseous lymphadenitis, ovine progressive pneumonia (OPP, Maedi-Visna), and scrapie. 5. The animal or the animals as a group were isolated under official supervision fromother (groups of) animals, and they remained so for not less than 21 days prior to the date of export. Each animal has been identified with official eartag, breed, sex, and age.6. The animals were treated on , which is within 48 hours prior to shipment, with , a product that provides broad spectrum coverage against internal parasites and is considered to be ovicidal and larvacidal. They were also treated at the same time with _________________________ _____________________, a product approved for use against external parasites. There have been no cases of resistance to these products. 7. The animals have been vaccinated within 6 months prior to exportation against hemorrhagic septicemia, Clostridium septicum, Clostridium chauvoei and leptospirosis with a 5-way vaccine for Leptospira canicola, L. grippotyphosa, L. hardjo, L. pomona, and L. icterohaemorrhagiae.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 2
8. The farms of origin are participants of the National Scrapie Eradication Program. In the farms of origin no case of scrapie has been diagnosed in the last 3 years. The animals are not scrapie-positive nor have they been exposed to scrapie, nor have they ever been in an infected flock, source flock, or trace flock nor are they the progeny, parent, or sibling of any scrapie-positive animal. TEST REQUIREMENTSAll animals must be tested with negative results as prescribed below within 30 days prior to export. The same tests may be repeated in Aruba. All test results to qualify the animals must be included.1. Tuberculosis: Intradermal caudal fold test using PPD tuberculin. 2. Brucellosis: Plate or tube agglutination test at a 1:50 dilution. 3. Bluetongue: One test AGID (Agar-gel immunodiffusion) test or ELISA. Animals that test positive may be further tested by either PCR or virus isolation conducted at the National Veterinary Services Laboratories. A negative PCR or virus isolation test will override a positive ELISA or AGID and animals will be released based on these negative results. 4. OPP/Maedi-Visna: One AGID test. EMBARKATION STATEMENTS At the port of embarkation, a VS port veterinarian shall attach to the Origin Health Certificate and the original laboratory test results, the Certificate of Inspection of Export Animals (VS Form 17-37) showing: 1. The name and address of the consignor. 2. The name and address of the consignee. 3. The number, sex and types of animals to be shipped. 4. A statement that the animals have been given a careful veterinary inspection at the port of embarkation and were found free from evidence of communicable disease, tumors, fresh wounds or wounds in the process of healing, or ectoparasites within 24 hours of exportation. OTHER  INFORMATION

1. In order to import live animals into Aruba, the consignee must have the Health Certificate and/or related test results approved by the Director of the Veterinary Service of Aruba before the animals are shipped to Aruba.
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2. The U.S. Origin Health Certificate is valid for 30 days from the date of issuance although this can be extended to 45 days if the animals have remained healthy and in isolation from other animals and the accredited veterinarian so certifies. 3. No animal, semen, fertilized ova, products, or equipments other than those listed on the import permit may be included in the shipment. 4. The animals must not transit any country under animal health quarantine in route to Aruba. In case of extreme necessity, it is indispensable to have a special permit from the Director of Veterinary Services of Aruba.
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iquitos
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« Reply #369 on: June 21, 2005, 11:50:30 AM »

Quote from: "pinto"
Quote from: "iquitos"
...  The Twittys arrived to find little had happened on the ground since it was noticed that Natalee was gone and they had to get the ball rolling immediately and they did.  Did you see the comment off the Scared Monkey main board I posted earlier form another LE person?  I am just observing that the effort may have gone too far and that is too bad.  The worst part is that even their effort was not enough to jump start the investigation  This is common in my experience overseas handling these cases.  Missing persons is a low priority until it is obvious that something bad has happened.   An island that depends on tourism sees lots of people go temporarily missing but to not take each one dead seriously is at their peril as this case has illustrated.


Very good post. You have to look at both sides here. We have the benefit of hindsight, of course, and we know something bad has happened. But at the time, to the Aruban LE, it was another dime-a-dozen missing girl. They can't call the FBI for every one of them, because usually it's a false alarm.

My brother works as a ski patrol and avalanche rescue guy. Kids (and others) are always getting lost on the mountain, and mothers freak out, and usually (99% of the time) it's nothing. But in an alpine environment, you can't wait. You have to check. You have to find them before dark. It's frustrating, though, for the patrollers because they spend (waste) a lot of time on situations that aren't dangerous. I'm sure this is how the Arubans felt initially.

Natalee's family, of course, knows that she wouldn't have missed the plane. The two groups weren't on the same page, and thus you end up with Natalee's family interrogating the VDSs, which compromised a criminal investigation (not faulting them, because the investigation hadn't started yet) and tipped off the VDSs. I think some of the Holloways' defensiveness and irritability is attributable to some guilt over this. (Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't have gone there looking for her. It was a no-win situation.)

THe police obviously screwed this one up, because they probably still didn't think it was going to turn into a criminal investigation. With hindsight, I'm sure LE wouldn't have let the Holloways take this into their own hands.


thanks for the comment pinto.  i once bird dogged a case like this in argentina.  a local kid came into the embassy to report that an American  friend who was hitching around south america had not arrived in Buenos Aires as scheduled.  I kind of blew him off with the maybe she changed her mind and did not let you know,  He retorted very earnestly that she was not that way.  I took him seriously, ran her picture and a note in the local press, and somebody called the next day to report seeing a morgue shot of her in a newspaper.  she had been abducted, beaten, tied up, and left to drown at the beach.  Father came down and we tried to build a fire under the cops and trace leads but we could not get anybody to focus.  this was in the late '80's  I learned never to blow off a missing person report or let the local copes do it either.
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littletxlady
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« Reply #370 on: June 21, 2005, 11:51:09 AM »

Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "littletxlady"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "littletxlady"
Quote from: "veme"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "veme"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "veme"
I have got a question maybe someone can answer regarding the Texas Equine S&R.

How are the horse transported?

Is the plane made up like a stock trailer?

Do the horses need to be preped before a flight? Change in feed or water? Sedated?

Does a vet go with the group?

How many horses are going?

 Just wondering. I've got animals & know the kinds of stuff you can into moving them. God Bless Texas.
Thanks! Smile

I don't think they are taking horses, they are taking dogs and sonar equipment.


Thanks! I didn't  know. I just assumed it was horses. Smile


I'm betting they'll take the horses. They'll be useful in the hard-to-reach places. See my above post.

If they dont take horses it might be they are planning on gaining use of horses already on the island.

I wouldn't think so.  There is an old saying to the effect " A horse & rider share a great secret". It has to do with the understanding that a particular horse has with a particular rider.
A horse & rider  work like a team/couple. There is a great amount of affection on both sides. That type of work wouldn't be the best time to "switch horses". Smile

Ditto
There is another old saying "Don't swithch horses in the middle of the steam"
Horses and owners have an unspoken and almost magical relationship with each other.


Too true...but like I said, competent riders should be able to ride any horse. So it's possible that they could be using island horses.


Oh of course a competent rider can ride almost any horse, but I would imagine that their horses and owners are trained for situations such as this one. JMHO   Wink


But something is always better than nothing! Ahhhh I don't speak internet. JMHO?


JMHO= Just My Humble Opinion  Wink
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Joran is truly EVIL

Casey's only truthful statement:  "Well...maybe I'm a spiteful bitch"
 
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Rob
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« Reply #371 on: June 21, 2005, 11:53:52 AM »

Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "Rob"
first degree murder in the us is premediated....not an accident , wonder if that is the same..?


That's why I hate newsscrolls, they just confuse everbody. It's indeed two counts. Premeditated murder and manslaughter.

In the first count, the DA (Officier van Justitie) has to prove that the death of miss Holloway, if she is indeed found dead, was not an accident but deliberatly caused by someone and that the murderer can be considered sane when he killed her.

In the second count (like murder 2) this case will be treated as manslaughter under influence of drugs/alcohol

The difference for the suspect is that the sentences for manslaughter tend to be lower. The same as in the US.


you are quite knowledgeable.. i have a question.. what if the gang of three are on drugs at the time of death..would those be mitigating circumstances?
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« Reply #372 on: June 21, 2005, 11:55:08 AM »

Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "veme"
I have got a question maybe someone can answer regarding the Texas Equine S&R.

How are the horse transported?

Is the plane made up like a stock trailer?

Do the horses need to be preped before a flight? Change in feed or water? Sedated?

Does a vet go with the group?

How many horses are going?

 Just wondering. I've got animals & know the kinds of stuff you can into moving them. God Bless Texas.
Thanks! Smile


I'm betting they will take some of the horses...they'll be useful, for sure. I've always wondered how horses are transported by plane...but I'm VERY sure they have to be sedated. I've been working with Saddlebreds for a while though, so I may just be used to the moronic horses...but even mine (QuarterHorse-Paint...quiet) would need sedating. And a vet had BETTER be going with the group! That's a common sense safety measure...any time extensive trail riding in unfamiliar territory is involved, there should be an easy way to reach a vet. You never know...


I've been riding horses for 20yrs and training them for 15....I can't imagine they are taking them....what an adjustment that would be for those animals!!!  Not to say that they aren't though...who knows...
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mbhs05
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« Reply #373 on: June 21, 2005, 11:55:43 AM »

Quote from: "littletxlady"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "littletxlady"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "littletxlady"
Quote from: "veme"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "veme"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "veme"
I have got a question maybe someone can answer regarding the Texas Equine S&R.

How are the horse transported?

Is the plane made up like a stock trailer?

Do the horses need to be preped before a flight? Change in feed or water? Sedated?

Does a vet go with the group?

How many horses are going?

 Just wondering. I've got animals & know the kinds of stuff you can into moving them. God Bless Texas.
Thanks! Smile

I don't think they are taking horses, they are taking dogs and sonar equipment.


Thanks! I didn't  know. I just assumed it was horses. Smile


I'm betting they'll take the horses. They'll be useful in the hard-to-reach places. See my above post.

If they dont take horses it might be they are planning on gaining use of horses already on the island.

I wouldn't think so.  There is an old saying to the effect " A horse & rider share a great secret". It has to do with the understanding that a particular horse has with a particular rider.
A horse & rider  work like a team/couple. There is a great amount of affection on both sides. That type of work wouldn't be the best time to "switch horses". Smile

Ditto
There is another old saying "Don't swithch horses in the middle of the steam"
Horses and owners have an unspoken and almost magical relationship with each other.


Too true...but like I said, competent riders should be able to ride any horse. So it's possible that they could be using island horses.


Oh of course a competent rider can ride almost any horse, but I would imagine that their horses and owners are trained for situations such as this one. JMHO   Wink


But something is always better than nothing! Ahhhh I don't speak internet. JMHO?


JMHO= Just My Humble Opinion  Wink


I should probably get a dictionary for these things...sigh. I miss so much cause I dont' speak internet.
But thatnks for clearing it up, anyway!
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LemonDrop
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« Reply #374 on: June 21, 2005, 11:56:26 AM »

Quote


you are quite knowledgeable.. i have a question.. what if the gang of three are on drugs at the time of death..would those be mitigating circumstances?


I hope not!  Taking drugs is entirely voluntary- unless the gang of three was forced under gunpoint to take drugs, I don't consider that a mitigating circumstance...nor do I consider alcohol but then again that's my opinion.   Wink
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da wench
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« Reply #375 on: June 21, 2005, 11:56:34 AM »

Good morning, Monkeys.  Okay, I turned off the TV and computer after watching Greta (and Dash - Great job, hon).  Are there any new develoments/confirmations???  Was there really a suicide attempt?  Another arrest?  Anything at all????
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« Reply #376 on: June 21, 2005, 11:57:00 AM »

Perhaps someone who's really fast with their fingers can re-post the link to the equine search group.  I read some of their site this morning and it answers many of the questions that have arisen in the last 15 minutes.  Thanks.
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tmwsiy
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« Reply #377 on: June 21, 2005, 11:58:14 AM »

Try http://www.netlingo.com/ :c)

Quote from: "mbhs05"

I should probably get a dictionary for these things...sigh. I miss so much cause I dont' speak internet.
But thatnks for clearing it up, anyway!
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mbhs05
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« Reply #378 on: June 21, 2005, 11:58:32 AM »

Quote from: "blfit"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "veme"
I have got a question maybe someone can answer regarding the Texas Equine S&R.

How are the horse transported?

Is the plane made up like a stock trailer?

Do the horses need to be preped before a flight? Change in feed or water? Sedated?

Does a vet go with the group?

How many horses are going?

 Just wondering. I've got animals & know the kinds of stuff you can into moving them. God Bless Texas.
Thanks! Smile


I'm betting they will take some of the horses...they'll be useful, for sure. I've always wondered how horses are transported by plane...but I'm VERY sure they have to be sedated. I've been working with Saddlebreds for a while though, so I may just be used to the moronic horses...but even mine (QuarterHorse-Paint...quiet) would need sedating. And a vet had BETTER be going with the group! That's a common sense safety measure...any time extensive trail riding in unfamiliar territory is involved, there should be an easy way to reach a vet. You never know...


I've been riding horses for 20yrs and training them for 15....I can't imagine they are taking them....what an adjustment that would be for those animals!!!  Not to say that they aren't though...who knows...


Oh, it would be an adjustment-but I read the requirements and both horses and riders have to be trained for this. I'm thinking sane, well trained animals will be fine in that situation. Honestly, it isn't much worse than what some show horses go through once a week during show season. (Not a showing fan...)
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iquitos
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« Reply #379 on: June 21, 2005, 11:59:05 AM »

Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
There is a jugde now on Fox.. saying NH parents probbaly arnt going to be sucessful in filing a lawsuit although she dont blame them for wanting to do so. Also the other men.. the international law experts said it probably wouldnt happen either.. and it woudnt fly here in the US either.. that stinks.. those guys were on earlier. Damn


lets take the FOX "experts" with a grain of salt and go with what our Monkeys expert Gerben tols us a few pages back.  Victims can become part of the case.  That is the way the Dutch do it.  We also had the attorney in Aruba and Beth tell us that on Fox last night.  Fox is just blowing steam.  Don't they listen to their own reports from the scene, surely not.  Now, as to wheter this gets them inside the facts of case i doubt it but it will, as somebody said last night, give them access to procedural aspects.  Gerben comment?
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