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Author Topic: RBN # 15 - 6/21/05  (Read 317725 times)
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bamajo
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« Reply #400 on: June 21, 2005, 12:13:36 PM »

Quote from: "Rob"
i dont know, but these guys just dont look like hardcore drug users too me, i.e. addicts.... i do however think they would drug someone....


i'm not talking hardcore, just recreational use.  if they had been drinking, and/or smoking pot, and/or taking ecstasy, that would/could hinder their judgement and recollection of the sequence of events.
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blfit
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« Reply #401 on: June 21, 2005, 12:13:53 PM »

Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "blfit"
Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "veme"
I have got a question maybe someone can answer regarding the Texas Equine S&R.

How are the horse transported?

Is the plane made up like a stock trailer?

Do the horses need to be preped before a flight? Change in feed or water? Sedated?

Does a vet go with the group?

How many horses are going?

 Just wondering. I've got animals & know the kinds of stuff you can into moving them. God Bless Texas.
Thanks! Smile


I'm betting they will take some of the horses...they'll be useful, for sure. I've always wondered how horses are transported by plane...but I'm VERY sure they have to be sedated. I've been working with Saddlebreds for a while though, so I may just be used to the moronic horses...but even mine (QuarterHorse-Paint...quiet) would need sedating. And a vet had BETTER be going with the group! That's a common sense safety measure...any time extensive trail riding in unfamiliar territory is involved, there should be an easy way to reach a vet. You never know...


I've been riding horses for 20yrs and training them for 15....I can't imagine they are taking them....what an adjustment that would be for those animals!!!  Not to say that they aren't though...who knows...


Oh, it would be an adjustment-but I read the requirements and both horses and riders have to be trained for this. I'm thinking sane, well trained animals will be fine in that situation. Honestly, it isn't much worse than what some show horses go through once a week during show season. (Not a showing fan...)


And more power to them if they are taking them....what a great organization!
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CancunMole
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« Reply #402 on: June 21, 2005, 12:14:47 PM »

Quote from: "dragonfly"
CancunMole, okay, if we go back to the original story and say that none of them have changed their stories from the original (since we don't have proof fact that they have) then they are still proven liars by video of the entrance that night and the other MB students being at the pool.  So we are still back at square one with 3 boys being the last ones seen with her and lying about what they did with her.


It has been stated (on TV more than once, if one listened) that the only video camera at the HI is at the front desk. There was one story that the outside camera at the HI was broken. Either way, no camera outside to confirm/deny their story. I do not believe that anyone sat in the lobby all night to track who in the MB group was in and not in which has been implied. If you have ever been to the HI, you can't see the driveway from the pool area.
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bamajo
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« Reply #403 on: June 21, 2005, 12:17:46 PM »

Quote from: "CancunMole"
I do not believe that anyone sat in the lobby all night to track who in the MB group was in and not in which has been implied. If you have ever been to the HI, you can't see the driveway from the pool area.


jac, you are right.  i have a now 24 yo nephew who was arrested for trafficking cocaine.  if you looked at him, you would not think him a "druggie", he's nice, clean cut, has manners etc., but he did it for the $$$.   it was an easy way for him to make some money and live a nice lifestyle while in college.


and CM, it has been said that some of the MBHS crew waited until 5:00 a.m. in the lobby for Natalee, and she did not show.
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mbhs05
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« Reply #404 on: June 21, 2005, 12:18:40 PM »

Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
I do not believe that anyone sat in the lobby all night to track who in the MB group was in and not in which has been implied. If you have ever been to the HI, you can't see the driveway from the pool area.


jac, you are right.  i have a now 24 yo nephew who was arrested for trafficking cocaine.  if you looked at him, you would not think him a "druggie", he's nice, clean cut, has manners etc., but he did it for the $$$.   it was an easy way for him to make some money and live a nice lifestyle while in college.


and CM, it has been said that some of the MBHS crew waited until 5:00 a.m. in the lobby for Natalee, and she did not show.


Where'd ya here that?
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Professor
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« Reply #405 on: June 21, 2005, 12:20:57 PM »

Here is an observation, that can explain a lot about the handling of this case.

Aruba is a closed society. Residents there don’t need to lock their doors at night, because their neighbors have been neighbors for 3 and 4 generations. To cheat a neighbor, or to steal from a neighbor could result in a tarnish upon a family’s reputation that would be passed on to one’s children, and to one’s children’s children. And so a highly trained police department is not necessary in a closed society. That might explain the lack of expertise in the Aruban police investigation.

But there is also a dark side to such a closed society. Tourists come and go. And, in a closed society, there is a tendency to develop an us-and-them attitude about tourists. Us being the native Arubans, and Them being the American and Venezuelan and Dutch tourists who visit the island. We might expect to see a closing of the ranks, as this case proceeds, and in fact we are already seeing it. Already, there are gushes of sympathy for the poor, beleaguered Paul van der Sloot, and for the “stain upon his family’s reputation.” Already there are gushes of compassion for the poor Joran van der Sloot, following reports that he may have been heard sobbing in his jail cell, or that he might have tried to hang himself. (A cowardly act, if true, that would deny the family of Natalee Holloway any answers into the disappearance of their lovely daughter.)

Of course, there is also professed sympathy for the family of a girl who went missing on the island. But the death or disappearance of a young American tourists is somehow no more important than the “stain upon a family’s honor,” or loss of tourist revenues.

I don’t think that this is unique with Aruba. I think we see the same behavior in the Bahamas, the Virgin Islands, and in other closed societies. In the Virgin Islands, American tourists with no motive and iron-clad alibis were convicted for a crime that had been committed by a native. In Saudi Arabia, American citizens were arrested for a bombing that had been committed by Saudis. And in Aruba two security guards were rounded up, to take the fall for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The only exception in this case was that the two security guards were native Arubans. But they obviously didn’t count, since they were not of the middle class.

What is the bottom line? The bottom line is that a tourist in one of these closed societies needs to be aware that he or she does NOT have full standing as a resident, and will never have the undivided sympathy of the residents, in the event something bad happens. So, why not come to Key West, or to Panama City?
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sarah
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« Reply #406 on: June 21, 2005, 12:21:05 PM »

Remember the comment, "We can't just go in there like cowboys!"  I love that all these Texans are going over to do an equine search.  Guess we can go in there like cowboys after all.
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Gerben aka Pays Bas
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« Reply #407 on: June 21, 2005, 12:21:16 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "nisxan"
Speaking of legal experts, has anyone heard if they clarified whether or not prisoners are allowed to speak to each other and if the claims of the jailhouse talk with one of the brothers really happened?


See news article case update from Amigoe reposted earlier today.  They say it is not allowed and that they are taking precautions.   Maybe they allowed it earlier so they could monitor it.  Gerben?


Yes, it's not allowed and in The Netherlands commonly not possible, you have to yell trough thick concrete walls to do that. As a rule here: one cell, one suspect. If have never seen a police holding cell in Aruba from the inside so I have to guess here, wich I don't like.

Police strategy is another thing, it can be 'arranged' to get some more 'informal' information. However these (possibly taped) talks are commonly not considered evidence in court, because bragging is not a crime here. In one case I know of police used an 'fake' prisoner (and talked to others) to get some info and confession from someone who was incarcerated in suspicion of causing a massive fireworksdisaster here. His 'confession' to the infomer was trown faster out of court than the DA could say 'Enschede'.

/edited for details
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Oh dear. Can somebody please fix my avatar?
SL
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« Reply #408 on: June 21, 2005, 12:21:52 PM »

I haven't seen an answer to this.. Maybe someone would be kind enuf to PM me this??


On many blogs, about various subjects) I have noticed the word "TRACKBACK."

When there is a "trackback," the numbers of trackbacks are listed. When I paste the trackback into the address bar, this message appears:
'URL needed'

What is a trackback. What is the purpose of a trackback?

SL
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klaasend
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« Reply #409 on: June 21, 2005, 12:21:55 PM »

Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
I do not believe that anyone sat in the lobby all night to track who in the MB group was in and not in which has been implied. If you have ever been to the HI, you can't see the driveway from the pool area.


jac, you are right.  i have a now 24 yo nephew who was arrested for trafficking cocaine.  if you looked at him, you would not think him a "druggie", he's nice, clean cut, has manners etc., but he did it for the $$$.   it was an easy way for him to make some money and live a nice lifestyle while in college.


and CM, it has been said that some of the MBHS crew waited until 5:00 a.m. in the lobby for Natalee, and she did not show.


Where'd ya here that?

Funny how we here things differently.  What I heard was that some of the students were in the Jaccuzzi until 5:00am that morning...not in the lobby.
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iquitos
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« Reply #410 on: June 21, 2005, 12:22:36 PM »

Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
CancunMole, okay, if we go back to the original story and say that none of them have changed their stories from the original (since we don't have proof fact that they have) then they are still proven liars by video of the entrance that night and the other MB students being at the pool.  So we are still back at square one with 3 boys being the last ones seen with her and lying about what they did with her.


It has been stated (on TV more than once, if one listened) that the only video camera at the HI is at the front desk. There was one story that the outside camera at the HI was broken. Either way, no camera outside to confirm/deny their story. I do not believe that anyone sat in the lobby all night to track who in the MB group was in and not in which has been implied. If you have ever been to the HI, you can't see the driveway from the pool area.


I think you have it right re the cameras Cancun mole.  I have been in that hotel too and it is a maze and the entrance is set back from the road.  There may also be car access from the side.  If any of these guys had already taken liberties with Natalee in an impaired state as reported initially, they might drop her where least likely to be observed.  From there it is anybody's guess.  

If somebody wants to monitor the 95.1 radio report for the day, it is on now.  just started.
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bamajo
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« Reply #411 on: June 21, 2005, 12:23:57 PM »

Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
I do not believe that anyone sat in the lobby all night to track who in the MB group was in and not in which has been implied. If you have ever been to the HI, you can't see the driveway from the pool area.


jac, you are right.  i have a now 24 yo nephew who was arrested for trafficking cocaine.  if you looked at him, you would not think him a "druggie", he's nice, clean cut, has manners etc., but he did it for the $$$.   it was an easy way for him to make some money and live a nice lifestyle while in college.


and CM, it has been said that some of the MBHS crew waited until 5:00 a.m. in the lobby for Natalee, and she did not show.


Where'd ya here that?


i can't verify at this moment, but i think i read it on the TA post that was posted by someone's mother?  dash's maybe?  i don't remember.  i've read so much, and i do specifically remember reading that information on a post somewhere by someone's parent.  i do apologize for being so vague, but i just don't remember where i read it.  is that a false report?  i humbly apologize if it is.
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Rob
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« Reply #412 on: June 21, 2005, 12:24:12 PM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Here is an observation, that can explain a lot about the handling of this case.

Aruba is a closed society. Residents there don’t need to lock their doors at night, because their neighbors have been neighbors for 3 and 4 generations. To cheat a neighbor, or to steal from a neighbor could result in a tarnish upon a family’s reputation that would be passed on to one’s children, and to one’s children’s children. And so a highly trained police department is not necessary in a closed society. That might explain the lack of expertise in the Aruban police investigation.

But there is also a dark side to such a closed society. Tourists come and go. And, in a closed society, there is a tendency to develop an us-and-them attitude about tourists. Us being the native Arubans, and Them being the American and Venezuelan and Dutch tourists who visit the island. We might expect to see a closing of the ranks, as this case proceeds, and in fact we are already seeing it. Already, there are gushes of sympathy for the poor, beleaguered Paul van der Sloot, and for the “stain upon his family’s reputation.” Already there are gushes of compassion for the poor Joran van der Sloot, following reports that he may have been heard sobbing in his jail cell, or that he might have tried to hang himself. (A cowardly act, if true, that would deny the family of Natalee Holloway any answers into the disappearance of their lovely daughter.)

Of course, there is also professed sympathy for the family of a girl who went missing on the island. But the death or disappearance of a young American tourists is somehow no more important than the “stain upon a family’s honor,” or loss of tourist revenues.

I don’t think that this is unique with Aruba. I think we see the same behavior in the Bahamas, the Virgin Islands, and in other closed societies. In the Virgin Islands, American tourists with no motive and iron-clad alibis were convicted for a crime that had been committed by a native. In Saudi Arabia, American citizens were arrested for a bombing that had been committed by Saudis. And in Aruba two security guards were rounded up, to take the fall for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The only exception in this case was that the two security guards were native Arubans. But they obviously didn’t count, since they were not of the middle class.

What is the bottom line? The bottom line is that a tourist in one of these closed societies needs to be aware that he or she does NOT have full standing as a resident, and will never have the undivided sympathy of the residents, in the event something bad happens. So, why not come to Key West, or to Panama City?


lesson learned......
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jac723
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« Reply #413 on: June 21, 2005, 12:24:46 PM »

Quote from: "mbhs05"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
I do not believe that anyone sat in the lobby all night to track who in the MB group was in and not in which has been implied. If you have ever been to the HI, you can't see the driveway from the pool area.


jac, you are right.  i have a now 24 yo nephew who was arrested for trafficking cocaine.  if you looked at him, you would not think him a "druggie", he's nice, clean cut, has manners etc., but he did it for the $$$.   it was an easy way for him to make some money and live a nice lifestyle while in college.


and CM, it has been said that some of the MBHS crew waited until 5:00 a.m. in the lobby for Natalee, and she did not show.


Where'd ya here that?


I didn't hear that--but the interview with the girl and guy from MB said a whole bunch of them sat around the pool until 5am--not in the lobby.
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Jennifer
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« Reply #414 on: June 21, 2005, 12:25:12 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
And we have the story of the guy who say two guys forcing a woman kicking and screaming into a car in front of HI.  We jsut don't know much.

(Excerpt)

Where did you hear this story???
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momto5
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« Reply #415 on: June 21, 2005, 12:25:23 PM »

Quote from: "sarah"
Remember the comment, "We can't just go in there like cowboys!"  I love that all these Texans are going over to do an equine search.  Guess we can go in there like cowboys after all.

Actually they are just gonna see how cowboys do it now.
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"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. " ~ Abraham Lincoln
friend of monkeys
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« Reply #416 on: June 21, 2005, 12:25:45 PM »

Quote from: "jagz2u"
Quote from: "MominTN"
Do an interview at the internet cafe and see who goes in there


MominTn,
I like the way you think.  An interview at the internet cafe seems very appropo.  Good next step for Greta.


alot of arubas residents go on setarnet thru cell phones/calling cards also.
my friend finds both expensive ...sometimes she spends $30/40 a day chatting/etc... the internet cafe is good for long time usage i guess.
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peace to all
KerinTX
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« Reply #417 on: June 21, 2005, 12:27:49 PM »

Well, I am happy to hear that the investigation is actually composed of a "team" comprised of Aruban, Dutch and FBI....all working together and getting along well. (per Trapenberg) This is a much better picture than what was originally thought.
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"What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"
Kelly
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« Reply #418 on: June 21, 2005, 12:27:54 PM »

Quote from: "la_cavaličre"
Quote from: "iquitos"
And we have the story of the guy who say two guys forcing a woman kicking and screaming into a car in front of HI.  We jsut don't know much.

(Excerpt)

Yeah where did you hear that?!!!!!!!!!!
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Kelly
Angiex911dsptchr
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« Reply #419 on: June 21, 2005, 12:28:47 PM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
Well, I am happy to hear that the investigation is actually composed of a "team" comprised of Aruban, Dutch and FBI....all working together and getting along well. (per Trapenberg) This is a much better picture than what was originally thought.


I agree.. I am listening to that now as well Kerin!
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