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Author Topic: RBN # 15 - 6/21/05  (Read 316292 times)
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jagz2u
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« Reply #260 on: June 21, 2005, 10:22:13 AM »

Quote from: "MominTN"
Do an interview at the internet cafe and see who goes in there


MominTn,
I like the way you think.  An interview at the internet cafe seems very appropo.  Good next step for Greta.
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Kelly
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« Reply #261 on: June 21, 2005, 10:22:25 AM »

Wher are you hearing this about possible charges being brought to these boys? how can they be throwin out possible charges without any evidence? if that is the case, they must have something solid now!
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Kelly
MominTN
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« Reply #262 on: June 21, 2005, 10:23:28 AM »

Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "MominTN"
DJ faces same accusation as the other 3, 2 counts of murder and 1 count of kidnapping leading to murder


Im confused?? '2' counts of murder??  Yikes


Was on the bottom of the tv on the scroll feed on CNN
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bamajo
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« Reply #263 on: June 21, 2005, 10:23:31 AM »

Quote from: "jagz2u"
Quote from: "MominTN"
Do an interview at the internet cafe and see who goes in there


MominTn,
I like the way you think.  An interview at the internet cafe seems very appropo.  Good next step for Greta.


quick, somebody email her that idea!!!   Very Happy
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Compananzi
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« Reply #264 on: June 21, 2005, 10:24:09 AM »

Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Once I saw that the guy feeding her information was so obviously wrong about the schools, I pretty much ghosted anything else he said.  He also said that the tattoo had a trip on Sunday night but all our regulars say it does not go out on Sunday.

I think he fed her bad stuff and tht might or might not even be the brother's home.


Yes, I don't think the poor guy really knew what he was talking about either. Sometimes it seemed like he was making things up, like when Greta asked him how long Deepak had known Steve Croes and he said he didn't know but he thought it wasn't more than a year. I mean, either you don't know or you do![/i]


Greta was talking to the Diario Reporter as well as Jossy Mansur (an influential family). The reporter is as far as I can tell being very honest and informative.  The issue you have with specific is that Greta was asking how long exactly Deepak knew SGC.  In Papiamento, saying I'm not sure, if you translate it to English means "I do not Know".  as opposed to "I am not sure"... Basically his is saying he is not sure the exact date they met  but is guessing its around a year.
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Angiex911dsptchr
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« Reply #265 on: June 21, 2005, 10:24:45 AM »

Quote from: "MominTN"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "MominTN"
DJ faces same accusation as the other 3, 2 counts of murder and 1 count of kidnapping leading to murder


Im confused?? '2' counts of murder??  Yikes


Was on the bottom of the tv on the scroll feed on CNN


Thanks MominTN.. I havnt watched CNN...mainly have Fox on.
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mojo
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« Reply #266 on: June 21, 2005, 10:25:31 AM »

mominTN - not to be confrontational...can you source that?

Gerben or anyone, can you shed light on why two counts of murder?
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BlueKyGirl
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« Reply #267 on: June 21, 2005, 10:26:08 AM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Once I saw that the guy feeding her information was so obviously wrong about the schools, I pretty much ghosted anything else he said.  He also said that the tattoo had a trip on Sunday night but all our regulars say it does not go out on Sunday.

I think he fed her bad stuff and tht might or might not even be the brother's home.


Yes, I don't think the poor guy really knew what he was talking about either. Sometimes it seemed like he was making things up, like when Greta asked him how long Deepak had known Steve Croes and he said he didn't know but he thought it wasn't more than a year. I mean, either you don't know or you do![/i]


Greta was talking to the Diario Reporter as well as Jossy Mansur (an influential family). The reporter is as far as I can tell being very honest and informative.  The issue you have with specific is that Greta was asking how long exactly Deepak knew SGC.  In Papiamento, saying I'm not sure, if you translate it to English means "I do not Know".  as opposed to "I am not sure"... Basically his is saying he is not sure the exact date they met  but is guessing its around a year.


Thanks for clarifying!
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iquitos
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« Reply #268 on: June 21, 2005, 10:26:15 AM »

Quote from: "goon squad"
<<There is some indication that the pro-active Alabama folks may have contaminated the investigation in their zeal to get to the botom of Natalees disappearance.  It would have been enough to identify Joran to the police.>>  


To place the blame for any "contamination" on Natalee's family is absurd.  I don't see what going after BHT accomplishes; she did not participate in the interrogation, and she was likely unclear about what she could and should say about her brief meeting with Joran.  And the imagery provoked by phrases like "Alabama posse" is, frankly, distasteful.

On the night of May 31, the top priority was not investigation purity.  It was preservation of life.  If that priority is going to be ignored, there really isn't any point to law enforcement, prosecution, and pretty much every other function of government.

On the night of May 31, Natalee was, and still is, missing.  She wasn't confirmed dead, but it was pretty clear she wasn't at the movies, either.  For all anyone knew, she was dying at that moment.

On the night of May 31, the interest of saving Natalee's life was best served by getting information from JVDS.  Not in the morning.  Not 48 hours later.  Not after a couple of "Ladies' Night" no-shows.  But immediately.

There is no valid reason why serving the top priority - preservation of life - could be done without compromising an important secondary concern - investigation purity.  If contact by the Holloway family group with Joran would compromise the investigation, then it was the duty of law enforcement to prevent that from happening.  But since the top priority still has not been served, it was also their duty to conduct an immediate, formal interrogation of Joran without outside interference.

The failure to meet these clear, simple duties does not go to the Holloway family's discredit.  It goes to Aruban law enforcement's.
 

Goon, your consistent, cogent, and obviously professionally informed observations are appreciated.  The Twittys arrived to find little had happened on the ground since it was noticed that Natalee was gone and they had to get the ball rolling immediately and they did.  Did you see the comment off the Scared Monkey main board I posted earlier form another LE person?  I am just observing that the effort may have gone too far and that is too bad.  The worst part is that even their effort was not enough to jump start the investigation  This is common in my experience overseas handling these cases.  Missing persons is a low priority until it is obvious that something bad has happened.   An island that depends on tourism sees lots of people go temporarily missing but to not take each one dead seriously is at their peril as this case has illustrated.
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MississippiGirl
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« Reply #269 on: June 21, 2005, 10:26:17 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Can someone point me to an official way to donate, a website or address we can link to?

Paid time off has to be running out, they still have a mortgage and other bills in the states and they are spending unbudgeted money for things in a resort area. No matter how much is being given to them by holiday inn, delta etc. If the paid time off runs out things may get tight in a hurry.


Below is the information about the fund set up in Meridian, MS where Dave Holloway lives.  I believe that there is also a fund set up in Mountain Brook and that the TX Equine people are also accepting donations.

Link to the bank's website: http://www.trustmark.com/

From our local news (WTOK-TV):
http://www.wtok.com/news/headlines/1643201.html

...In Meridian, friends of the Holloway family are trying to help in a major way with the family's expenses.

...While police continue investigating the disappearance of Natalee in Aruba, friends of Dave and Robin Holloway, Natalee's father and stepmother who live in Meridian, are trying to assist the family financially by holding a fundraiser.

"We're just trying to do what we can. It is a sad situation and it is only right for us to do something," said Andrew Hart, a friend of Dave Holloway.

According to Hart, Dave Holloway has already spent almost $20,000 so far in the search for his daughter.

"We will be collecting funds at the (Mississippi) Braves game (in Pearl, Miss.) before and after the game," he said, referring to the June 17 game versus West Tennessee, starting at 7:05 p.m.

"We're just doing what we can to help," said Steve DeSalvo, general manager of the Mississippi Braves, who was in Meridian Thursday.

The money collected will be put into the "Help Find Natalee" Fund set up at Trustmark National Bank, to which anyone may donate just by going to any branch and designating the gift.
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Kelly
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« Reply #270 on: June 21, 2005, 10:26:17 AM »

how can they be facing two counts of murder? and why would they be relaeasing that information all of a sudden, when they woudlnt give us anything before... i dont understand this at all
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Kelly
jagz2u
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« Reply #271 on: June 21, 2005, 10:26:30 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
I have finally got up to date on the overnight posts. I was seaching for comments on the report of Greta van Susteren, especially her interview with Beth Twitty.

These interviews with Beth Twitty are important sources of information, and we should listen carefully to WHAT IS SAID as well as to WHAT IS NOT SAID. A lot of you missed some REALLY important information.

First, Beth Twitty mentioned that they had hired an Aruban lawyer to explore EVERY LEGAL AVENUE to get resolution to this case. That includes filing motions to gain access to information, and might have implied that that might also include civil suits agains the defendants, in the even that the criminal justice system turns into a clusterf**k.

Second, Beth Twitty made it clear that SHE WAS NOT LEAVING THE ISLAND until she gains some resolution to the case. Listen up you Aruban authorities. This is no longer a woman making demands. This is a woman making a PROMISE. This is a BIG development, folks, and one that the Aruban authorities are apparently taking seriously. I noticed a dramatic change in the attitude of Aruban spokesman Reuben Trappenberg in this interview, and I speculate that he takes has finally come to the conclusion that he needs to take this lady seriously.

Third, Greta has been successful in developing rapport with many different sources, including spokesmen Gomez and Trappenberg, and was able to ask many procedural questions, dealing with the Aruban legal system and get straight answers.

Fourth, Greta had cameramen ALL OVER THE ISLAND.

Fifth, Greta asked Beth Twitty, at the conclusion of her interview, "What can I do, to help?" This was a personal question, and went beyond anything Greta has ever asked any other interviewee. My take on this is that Greta has chosen to fight this thing to the finish. Given her legal background, it is a project for which she is uniquely qualified. Perhaps it is the cause of a lifetime. Tough questions will certainly come later, but Greta has established rapport and has established her credentials with the Aruban legal authorities, so they will never be able to come back and act condescending later. My take is that GRETA IS THERE FOR THE DURATION of this case.


You are right on with your comments. I  believe that if Beth H does not push, and had not pushed, this would have been swept under the rug.
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bamajo
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« Reply #272 on: June 21, 2005, 10:26:34 AM »

Quote from: "MominTN"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "MominTN"
DJ faces same accusation as the other 3, 2 counts of murder and 1 count of kidnapping leading to murder


Im confused?? '2' counts of murder??  Yikes


Was on the bottom of the tv on the scroll feed on CNN


2 counts does not neccessarily mean two murders.  i'm sure in aruban law as was as american law, there are different counts for different types.  usually, the prosecution won't rely on going after just one count of murder, they will usually add as many that are relevant to the case.  kind of like bad, worse, and worst murder counts.  does that make sense?  can you tell that i'm no lawyer nor do i know much about american law, much less aruban law?  LOL!   Razz
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GreatOwl
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« Reply #273 on: June 21, 2005, 10:27:13 AM »

Quote from: "xcptnl"
Since when do people who commit crimes spill their guts?  I am confused as to why we think they will just tell all.   Very very very infrequently you will get a confession.  I would guess 99% of the time you don't so why would anyone (including NH's mom) expect them to confess all??  I am not saying this to cause a war I am just confounded by everyone acting like it's odd there has been no breakdown and confession - when does that happen in the real world?  Just my thoughts-no need to attack.


This may be significant.  I would tend to agree if what was said last night by the local attorney is true.  When asked about cases being tried without a "body" his response was that it seldom happens.  (not that it could not happen)  I took that as meaning under the judicial system they do not have many cases with circumstantial evidence.  This was just my impression.  That being the case, why would any suspect help find the evidence.  Why would they help find Natalee when it would be to their advantage not to have her found?  Again this is just speculation.  Now I am speaking of the suspects, and not the innocent people of the island.
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Kelly
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« Reply #274 on: June 21, 2005, 10:29:24 AM »

Ohhhhhhhhh ok like Murder 1, murder 2, manslaughter and all that..ok ok..i got it..wow they must have some bad news for us then...if they are facing that now! Crying or Very sad
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Kelly
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« Reply #275 on: June 21, 2005, 10:29:52 AM »

Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "MominTN"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "MominTN"
DJ faces same accusation as the other 3, 2 counts of murder and 1 count of kidnapping leading to murder


Im confused?? '2' counts of murder??  Yikes


Was on the bottom of the tv on the scroll feed on CNN


2 counts does not neccessarily mean two murders.  i'm sure in aruban law as was as american law, there are different counts for different types.  usually, the prosecution won't rely on going after just one count of murder, they will usually add as many that are relevant to the case.  kind of like bad, worse, and worst murder counts.  does that make sense?  can you tell that i'm no lawyer nor do i know much about american law, much less aruban law?  LOL!   Razz


Thanks bamajo.. I still am confised of the fact the brothers were moved to prison.. thats what Marianne Croes reported earlier.. so why wasnt Joran moved with them then?? Hmmmm
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Rob
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« Reply #276 on: June 21, 2005, 10:30:59 AM »

first degree murder in the us is premediated....not an accident , wonder if that is the same..?
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« Reply #277 on: June 21, 2005, 10:31:08 AM »

I was doing some research yesterday on cases that were similar to this.

Check into the following:

Murder in Paradise          by Chris Loos
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060093463/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-0074471-1688810#readerpage
""Hawaii is Heaven-on-Earth, with its soft, flower-scented breezes, clear turquoise ocean water, and gently swaying palms. But on Christmas Eve 1991, it became a place of darkest evil, when Dana Ireland was kidnapped by three strangers, raped, savagely beaten, and left to die in the early hours of Christmas morning. A vivacious, 23-year-old visitor to the "Big Island," her life ended prematurely thanks to a terrible, senseless assault and the failure of rescue workers to reach the crime scene on time.""

-and-

Murder in Paradise          by Lisa Pulitzer
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0312984448/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-0074471-1688810#readerpage
""On January 15, 2000, the bruised body of thirty-four-year-old Lois McMillan, a Connecticut artist vacationing in the British Virgin Islands, was discovered draped across the rocks of an inlet where she had apparently drowned in the Caribbean waves. Local authorities on the little paradise of Tortola quickly confirmed that it was no accident. The police immediately found their suspects-four young, rich American tourists. Within twenty-four hours, the men were arrested for murder and went from a life of carefree luxury to cold jail cells. Each had an alibi. None of them had a motive. And there was no direct evidence linking any of them to Lois's death. Did authorities even have the right men? Was it a rush to judgment-a desperate attempt to save Tortola's reputation for peace and safety-or were these men hiding a terrible crime. A twisting tale of swift island justice that was just beginning. So was the intricate puzzle of the lives of the four men in question, and the truth of what really happened during Lois McMillen's tragic final hours.""

I also saw a report of a missing person case, that took place in Louisiana about a decade ago, where a guy gave a woman a ride, she disappeared, and he was never convicted... I'd have to look it up again to find it...
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goon squad
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« Reply #278 on: June 21, 2005, 10:31:24 AM »

<<This is a technique of personalization and demonization typical of the Southern lynch mob mentality Hang em first and then try to figure out if they did anything wrong. It is distasteful and uncivilized.>>

Funny, I thought it was Aruban law enforcement who picked up, arrested, and placed the specter of murder charges over two black men who had absolutely no connection to NH.
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iquitos
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« Reply #279 on: June 21, 2005, 10:31:44 AM »

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:34 am    Post subject: AMIGOE CURACAO   
AMIGOE CURACAO

Aruba
Aanhouding vierde verdachte verlengd
20 Jun, 2005, 17:04 (GMT -04:00)


ORANJESTAD — Three weeks after the american student Natalee Holloway disappeared there is not a trace of her. The public Ministry has arrested four and is continuously questioning witnesses and following up tips. This morning Steve Croes was before the Judge Commissioner and his detention was extended.

Paul van der Sloot, the father of 17 year old suspect Joran van der Sloot, was heard for a long time Saturday as a witness. The three other young suspects in the Holloway-case are meanwhile transferred to the holding house (KIA). The 19 year old Satish Kalpoe was moved Friday night to KIA. His older brother Deepak and Joran van de Sloot were transferred today.

It is known of the KIA that suspects can have contact with eachother and fine tune their stories with eachother. According to Papito Comenencia, police spokesman that will also happen in the Holloway-zaak. Comenencia: “They will surely talk to eachother in KIA, and we have a problem with that." According to Mariaine Croes, spokesperson for the Public Ministry, the holding of the suspects at KIA does not have to be a problem. Croes: “The minor will be in a special area for minors and the other two can be separated if that is necessary. Freddie Maduro, KIA director, said that all three will go in the minors section and will be placed so they have no contact with eachother.

26 year old Steve Croes was arraigned today before the judge commissioner who extended his detention for 8 days. Croes was picked up at his house in Casariba, in Santa Cruz. He is suspected of the same matters as the three young people, accessory to murder, accessory to manlaughter (doodslag) or intentional kidnapping (opzettelijke vrijheidsberoving). Croes is DJ on the partyboat de Tattoo.

According to Comenencia Paul van der Sloot was heard as a witness a total of three times. Comenencia: “We hear witnesses all the time, the whole time now. That someone is heard as a witness does not mean that they are a suspect."
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