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Author Topic: RBN # 16 - 6/21 thru 6/22  (Read 307465 times)
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inquisitive
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« Reply #1240 on: June 22, 2005, 01:24:26 AM »

Quote from: "luna"
I must say that for the first time tonight I wondered:

What. If. Beth. Holloway's. Instincts. Are. Wrong?

I think it was because for the first time we learned that Nat initiated the introduction, so now we know that Joran was stalking the students looking for easy "prey."  He was in a Texas Hold "Em tournament...and actually seems to take poker pretty seriously....  The e-mail, altho it may have been planned to corroborate his alibie, did shed some light into their habits....which seemed rather innocuous.

Also, the VDS family's demeanor was much different than the Twitty's had portrayed it.  And, someone (God only knows who), posted more detail of the confrontation that first night and it seems Jug mad some very pointed slurs about the boys, and Pop VDS stepped in to protect them.  That all makes more sense now....I would probably have responded as the Pop did as well.

I have thought for a long time that something went wrong....could be that Nat died of alcohol poisoning....we've all seen those reports of kids partying on their 21st birthday and dying.

Also, everyone's been wondering why the boys don't "crack"....maybe they don't know what happened?

Just another point of view.


TO MY UNDERSTANDING they are not "cracking b/c they do not have to indulge any info until the evidence is gatheres and they are before the judge.  Am I right or am I sorely confused?
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absolut
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« Reply #1241 on: June 22, 2005, 01:26:15 AM »

Was the prom date on the trip or was that a rumor as well?
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Red
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« Reply #1242 on: June 22, 2005, 01:26:49 AM »

Good night all.

This monkey needs to close his eyes before corrective eyes surgery is needed sooner than later.

RED
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absolut
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« Reply #1243 on: June 22, 2005, 01:27:10 AM »

Night Red.
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golden
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« Reply #1244 on: June 22, 2005, 01:27:32 AM »

Quote from: "Lurker"
"...and then one of natalees friend screamed for her to get out of the car


actually, I've read this somewhere before.  Before you all start demanding a link, source, etc., I don't remember where.  

Whether any of this is true or not does'nt matter.  If Natalee is still missing.  I do agree with the former detective in Aruba that a total picture of the victim and the suspects is helpful in investigating and determining what has happened to Natalee.  The intend is not to tarnish anyone's reputatation if possible.  It is supposed to be to find Natalee.
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« Reply #1245 on: June 22, 2005, 01:28:06 AM »

My prayers are with the relatives and friends. I canít imagine what they are going through.
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« Reply #1246 on: June 22, 2005, 01:28:46 AM »

Quote from: "tuberide"
Dateline NBC pays for interviews,,,,its not easy sometimes to distinguish alot of news programming with "magazine" programming nowadays - - - i think its because the magazine type shows are now just as current as regular news division stuff (lots of spin-off cable channels to fill with programming)



Dateline does not pay for interviews. They've had to work very hard to come back from their disasterous days of blowing up trucks with dynamite and claiming it went off on its own. (and even then reporters and producers were fired or "moved") The LAST thing Dateline would do is breech ethics by paying for an interview. Won't happen.
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #1247 on: June 22, 2005, 01:28:47 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote


Beth's instincts are these are last people that were with/talked to my daughter her instincts are nothing past that, in my belief. My instincts would be the same.


Does anyone know the extent to which she's been briefed by LE since she got to Aruba?
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goon squad
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« Reply #1248 on: June 22, 2005, 01:29:31 AM »

Folks, we have to keep our eyes on the ball!

This message board shows exactly why BHT would have discouraged people on the trip from discussing details with the media.  The discussion is now sidetracked over inconsistencies that are IRRELEVANT and shed no light on the investigation.  

All this clucking over Natalee approaching Joran... "Whoa, that's not the virgin we know!  I thought Joran was the predator.  She's pretty loose."
Irrelevant - and, potentially harmful, since there's this ugly subtext that, no matter how much people may deny it on the surface, that Natalee's aggression lowers the probability that she was a victim.

And the revelation that they met on 5/29... "Whoa, we've got people who supposedly KNOW her saying they met earlier!  This changes everything!"  This changes nothing.  It's a minor detail, with the inaccurate inforamtion provided by people who we know did not have constant contact with Natalee 24/7.  

And the harping over the actions of Natlee's "best" friends... "How could they lose track of her, especially if she's drunk."  This is a moral judgment, unrelated to the main issue.  Greta might have decided to take it easy on them.  Obviously, a mistake was made, and I'd bet that one of the hardest things these friends will have to deal with for the rest of their lives is the guilty feeling that will persist over this.

The main questions here are:

1) How do the current detainees account for their whereabouts and actions, and those of Natalee, on the night she was last seen?

2) How trustworthy are the detainees in their accounts?

And with Deepak's 5/29 e-mail (thanks WW), we have, among some other details, what has largely been out in the open already as the first reported alibi.  But again, we're getting sidetracked... "Whoa, there are details in here that we now know are true!  About stuff that we didn't have correct before!"  It's simple: partial accuracy = partial inaccuracy, with the e-mail, or with any other version of events.  Partial inaccuracy suggests LIES.

As I mentioned before, from the e-mail, Joran has placed himself and Natalee at the hotel at a fixed time of the evening - at which point the concert is simultaneously ongoing.  Forget about the fact that Natalee actually met Joran at a blackjack table.  If Natalee can be placed at the concert during the "blackjack time" defined by the e-mail, then this part of the story is a LIE.

According to the e-mail, Joran and the Kalpoes reached C&C's at approx. 12:30.  Based on the story told, Deepak bought drinks, had a conversation, and left before the bar closed, which has him staying for less than 30 minutes.  The C&C official statement suggests an 11:30PM arrival time for the people on the trip.  One friend in tonight;s GVS interview stated she was gone one hour prior to closing.   If you believe her friend, then this part of the e-mail story is a LIE.

According to Mr. VDS as stated by Greta tonight, he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00PM.  Based on the e-mail, there has to be a logical way that Joran was at the casino, talked to Natalee, called his friends, and went to McDonald's.  If not, then Joran, Paulus, and/or Deepak are LYING.

According to the e-mail, there's, at most, a 75 minute window to complete all of the events in the drive.  If it started before 1:00 AM, that cuts down the already short time in the bar further.  If it started after 1:00 AM, the window for the drive shrinks.  If either one does not make logical sense, then it's a LIE.

According to Ms. VDS as stated by Greta tonight, Joran told his mother that he left Natalee on the beach.  (N.B.:  No statement that Natalee was asleep, as stated in the MSNBC story yesterday).  Ms. VDS has also said (can't remember if it was this interview or in a wire article) that guards prevent her from discussing the case with Joran during her visits to the prison.  Therefore, Joran said this to his mother at some point prior to his detention.  Meanwhile, the e-mail says that Joran and the Kalpoes dropped off Natalee at the HI.  Not only is this a clear instance of a LIE by Joran and/or Deepak concerning the last moment Natalee was seen, it occurred prior to their detention, with its prolonged periods of intense interrogation.

According to the e-mail, at the last moment he saw Natalee, Deepak saw a black-shirted man with a walkie-talkie speak to Natalee.  There is no evidence of this man, who was standing in front of the lobby, or this conversation.  This portion of the e-mail, the "bottom" of the alibi, so to speak, is UNPROVEN.

Even just considering the stuff for which we have direct sources, I believe the detainees' stories contain too many holes.  The alibi is not conclusive, and there's at least one clear instance of the detainees lying.  Add in the the MSM repeatedly reporting multiple instances of changed stories from the detainees, and it seems like the guys are in prison for a good reason, and that they're hiding something.

For me, the fact that Deepak's e-mail matches up to some of the events demonstrates a clever, devious mind, and makes the idea of a long interrogation with slow results seem more plausible.  

Finally, if you want to allow for the possibility of being witnesses to a pure accident as a mitigating factor, keep in mind that its cover-up represents a clear choice of causing Natalee's family torment that, if a body is never found, will be neverending.  In my opinion, this represents unspeakable cruelty.
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« Reply #1249 on: June 22, 2005, 01:29:43 AM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
dated 6/5/2005


How are you i hope you and your family is fine.(NAME DELETED) is better i tell you the truth , before it will be a shock for you later, but i think it will be a shock for you rightnow.
The missing girl natalee hollaway,I spoke to her , sunday she left with me , my brother and a friend from carlos n' charlies , it was my car like the news said she got in to, I am one of the persons of intrest , i am one the the students they've questioned and released as they claimed in the news .
Let see where to start i don't even know where to begin these last days where so crazy for me i'm very tired haven't slept good in days : The story starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino ). so they took a drink and started talking etc. about school, the vacation etc.etc.afterwards my friend had to go and she said that ''today is my last day i will be in carlos n' charlies will you be there'' and my friend said well i have school tomorrow i don't think so . well she begged him and he still said yes i'll be there.So that was in the casino i was not present , i was at work so my friend called me and said hey i met some girls in the casino and her friends and they want us to meet them in carlos tonight do you have to work tomorrow morning i said no , so he said pick me up later then i said ok. so i got off my shift at 10 pm and went home took a bath had to fix something and then me and my younger brother went to pick up my friend was around 12.10 am so i came to his home and was talked for like 15 min and then left to go to carlos (we all went out without or parents knew) so we arrived like 12.30 am in carlos (carlos is closing 1 pm ) and headed straight for the bar and bought 3 drinks my friend paid for them, so besides the bar there is a stage and people were dancing and there was natalee dancing too (thats the first time i saw her )and she was calling my friend to get on the stage and dance with her  my friend laughed and refused so after the song was finished she came up to my friend and asked why he won't dance with her , i only heared that part because i was talking to someone else so i don't know what he responded(by then natalee was VERY drunk)so as i said i was talking to someone when i turned i had lost my brother , natalee and my friend. well they were announced that they were closing soon so i thought well maybe they' re waiting for me by the car its better i go there so i went to my car and nobody was there so i started playing music and was waiting on my brother and my friend.i waited for like 10 min and then i saw my brother stepping in the car and my friend who was with natalee. so i was surprised but anyways i started the engine and my brother was besides me and my friend and natalee were in the backseet so i started cruising in the area and asked my friend whats going on so natalee responded to me ''hey its no prob let us just drive around and have fun its my last night , she said you can drop me off later at holiday inn anyways right'' i said sure why not so as i was drove out of the carlos road and got on the mainroad there were natalees friends and she , pushed het head out of the window and screamed something i can't recall.so i was driving very slow to make a left to get in the next road and then one of natalees friend screamed for her to get out of the car , and she refused so then i stopped my car and i said natalee if your friends want you to go with them its better you go listen to them and go with them , she said no i will stay with you guys i will get a lift from you anways later, so she said bye to her friends and i drove away, so then we were just talking etc, in the car and then she said she wanted to see sharks ,it was by the lighthouse she saw them before that can we go , my friend said ok ,deepak lets go. so on my my to the lighthouse there was music playing and noone talking for a while when i looked in the backmirror my friend and natalee were kissing and touching (his hands etc was in her blouse but nothing nude or against natalees will ) so my brother siad just leave them for a while untill we get to the lighthouse, when i arrived at the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a min only trafficlights) so after like 10 min my friend is telling me that natalee fell asleep i said you kidding just wake her up and tell ask her if its holiday inn for sure she is staying so my friend woke her up and confirmed with natalee she was staying at the holiday inn, so i drove to the lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no. she he stepped in the car and while i was driving away i saw natalee walking towards the lobby and a gentleman with a walkie talkie and black clothes approached her and i think they were talking and i had never seen natalee again sinds.(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby) it was around 2.15 am .monday i came to work normally 4- 11 pm after work i called my friend i said whats up he said ok i'm at the raddison casino meet me there , i said ok  so i went there we played poker , we had some drinks and chat and then we had enough and decided that this casino was booring lets go to whyndham hotel casino . so i drove to whyndham and as i was parking my friends dad called him and said the police is at his home with some family members its about the girl you guys went out with yesterday , so my friend said wait there i be there, so we rushed at my friends home and there was the police and nataless family and it was a nightmare sinds then. the police asked us if we knew this girl showed us a picture we said yes thats her , they said she was missing and eyewitness say she was the last seen with you guys . so they asked a few more questions and we said we don't understand we left her at holiday inn lobby drive way how could she dissapear and then natalees stepfather jumped and said ''yes thats because after she went with you assholes she lost'' and then my friends father jumped and said thats enough you can't talk to the kids like that this is not the us your out of you juristiction this is not the way i want you people out of my yard i know the law (my friends father is e judge) so afterwards another family member of natalee suggested to the police if we can id the security gard we said ok. we went there there was no suck security working there as we discribed. so then we were just standing in the lobby there were questions etc. asked by other members , and then me and my friend walked to the car natalees mom was sitting and we said mam you have to believe us we did not do anything with you daughter, she was crying and said i don't believe you 2 , i promise you i will make you life a living hell because of this . anwyas we said we were sorry again ans that we will help in any way possible.i went home 7 pm tuesday, i was then called 2 pm by the police for questioning i went gave a statement they said i was a witness no suspect the same went for my brother and my friend they were questionded and had to sign their statement also , the checked my car and i was clear to go , wednesday i was called again to show them how i drove the route that day ( i could refuse was my right i still decided to go , as did my brother and friend ) the drove us one by one and then we were free to go again.thursday morning my friend called me (he goes to aruba international school and his mother is a teacher there and he is a straight A student ) in panic and said there a re family members here at school and they are sharing flyers and the flyers said : GIRL KIDNAPPED ASK JORAN VANDER SLOOT (thats my friends name ) the principle asked them to leave and they did .so thats my part of the story yesterday and today it was quiet no treathen phoncalls what we got before and i won't mention the crazythings the newspapers etc. writes about us its to much to mention. at home my mom is losing it she is cryimg constantly , my dad bloodpressure got high also his hands are red , my friends home is a disaster also ,his mom is crying constantly also his dad is pretty cool he calmes us down and talks to us also not to worry , my brother is preety cool but on his face you see he is worried , my friend is pretty worried also. i'm pretty worried also , we have 2 lawyers one for my friend and one for me in case we get arrested and charched with something his dad can't defend hin he is a judge and he is too emotional attached .my friend has his graduation this thursday he has to go to the states in july he has a full scholarship. i had to go to vacation also end of this month.many politicians find we should be locked up rightnow.We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead , she was seen with 2 guys , her hair is cut and is red now ,she was in a crackhouse etc, we were arrested and , my car is by the police we confessed to murder and rape, she went in a restaurant to buy food but none of those were true.So (name deleted) that was my part of the story what i said here is the same in my statement,people are saying they are bad guys lock them up , the family is going thru a lot righnow , but what they don't know how the other families feel and how they also have a reputation and carreers etc. because when this all is over they will still be talks that were the 3 guys that had something to do with the kidnap of natalee its a small island.they don't understand the pressure we are having also, if this girl turns up dead we have a problem we were the last seen with her . I lost a lot of friends who think we had to do something with this, many of my friends supported us also brought food etc. for us at home and know we are innocent, we are innocent also we promise i would NEVER hurt anyone in anyway, i would do every everything to help find her thats what we told eveyone also , i would take a bullet to save her and bring her back to her family if i had to so would my friend also.i would never never hurt anyone i'm a very happy and social person who likes to make friends with people and not hurting them
 
 
So (NAME DELETED) i will say goodbye now hope you believe me and i pray to god that they find natalee soon and find her well so that this nightmare ends  for all of us and they we prove we had nothing to do with this, i hope you pray for all of us say hi to everyone there hope to hear from you soon and may god bless.........
 
bye bye
 
Deepak.


Is there a reason to post this again and again?
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chelsblu
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« Reply #1250 on: June 22, 2005, 01:29:44 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Was the prom date on the trip or was that a rumor as well?


The only prom date I'm aware of is in relation to the pictures in Natalees camera. They were of Prom date, graduation, and trip. I think.
So much info?? so little time.
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Compananzi
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« Reply #1251 on: June 22, 2005, 01:30:05 AM »

8am-10pm Sleep, breakfast?

10am-2pm .Happy Hour Snorkel Sail with depalm Tours the Afternoon of.  
Take in all the pleasures of the sea by enjoying a half-day sail and snorkel experience on Aruba's newest catamaran. Lulled by the rhythm of the sea, lie on the spacious sun deck or enjoy a cocktail under the shaded cabin top. When you are ready to experience the beauty of the sea below the waterline let our friendly crew assist you as you prepare for your snorkeling adventure. Snorkeling stops include the coral-laden Antilla wreck, fish-friendly Boca Catalina and the unique Arashi reef. During your snorkel experience indulge in a delicious lunch prepared by top island chefs or sample a cool tropical drink or beer from the open bar.

7pm-11pm MUSIC CONCERT
Havana Beach Club Amphitheatre (outdoor on the beach) 7-11:00 p.m.
Lauryn Hill
Boyz II Men
Hosted by Doug E. Fresh

11.30pm-?? Carlos and Charlie who .  Approx 40 MB student were there..

12pm: Joran arrives with Kalpoes?

If I leave here tomorrow
would you still remember me
For I must be travelling on now
there's too many places I gotta see
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absolut
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« Reply #1252 on: June 22, 2005, 01:31:54 AM »

Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote


Beth's instincts are these are last people that were with/talked to my daughter her instincts are nothing past that, in my belief. My instincts would be the same.


Does anyone know the extent to which she's been briefed by LE since she got to Aruba?


Briefly and I am not being funny. I think somedays it isnt even to her, it is to a family liason.
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Tila_Bean
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« Reply #1253 on: June 22, 2005, 01:32:29 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Was the prom date on the trip or was that a rumor as well?


I believe that Dash said he was not on the trip.  She said her prom date was older.
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absolut
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« Reply #1254 on: June 22, 2005, 01:33:00 AM »

Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "absolut"
Was the prom date on the trip or was that a rumor as well?


The only prom date I'm aware of is in relation to the pictures in Natalees camera. They were of Prom date, graduation, and trip. I think.
So much info?? so little time.


Right the guy with the red corvette, was he in aruba?
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KerinTX
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« Reply #1255 on: June 22, 2005, 01:33:02 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Was the prom date on the trip or was that a rumor as well?


I asked that...as well as the numbers of male MBHS students and teachers and no one answered.
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coco
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« Reply #1256 on: June 22, 2005, 01:33:23 AM »

Inquisitive - reports (including from Greta) are that Joran is being questioned up to 11 hours per day and with a variety of psychological "methods" used (cold rooms, being called a murderer, etc) - it does not sound as if he is just happily sitting in a comfy cell keeping quiet.

We of course have no idea what he is really saying - or what anyone questioned is saying. All such reports are hearsay and unconfirmed.

And even when we try really hard to keep it all straight, the nonstop rumour/speculation leads us to think we *know* things when they are actually only rumour someone suggested 50 pages back.

My take is that we know that Natalee disappeared. We know that Joran and Deepak and Satish drove around with her in a car. That's about the only info that is not conjecture or hearsay.  And I think it's really important to keep that in mind as we speculate away. Anyone else have confirmed facts we can add to that list?
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #1257 on: June 22, 2005, 01:33:51 AM »

Quote from: "writenow"
Quote from: "tuberide"
Dateline NBC pays for interviews,,,,its not easy sometimes to distinguish alot of news programming with "magazine" programming nowadays - - - i think its because the magazine type shows are now just as current as regular news division stuff (lots of spin-off cable channels to fill with programming)



Dateline does not pay for interviews. They've had to work very hard to come back from their disasterous days of blowing up trucks with dynamite and claiming it went off on its own. (and even then reporters and producers were fired or "moved") The LAST thing Dateline would do is breech ethics by paying for an interview. Won't happen.


I became close to a Dateline producer while covering a story several years ago...she told me directly that they did not pay, but did engage in "perks" which even she said was a smoke screen for payment.

Things may have changed since then.
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Whitney
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« Reply #1258 on: June 22, 2005, 01:33:58 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Was the prom date on the trip or was that a rumor as well?


so sorry...what's this...I'm trying to catch up...I know how you might feel about remedial-types...but I went away for one day and just making conclusions like...is this becoming or smelling like a Jennifer Wilbanks?

I hope I'm just missing something.
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georgiablues
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« Reply #1259 on: June 22, 2005, 01:34:04 AM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
 
uggh.. now you are making me doubt, but seriously, I previous post had mentioned it was Paul that came from Holland, in the early evening like 5pm or 6pm, way before all the fun started.


Yes...I remember this too.  Was beginning to think hallucinations Shocked from looking at this monitor for ao long.
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