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Author Topic: RBN # 16 - 6/21 thru 6/22  (Read 315461 times)
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chelsblu
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« Reply #1360 on: June 22, 2005, 02:20:51 AM »

Quote from: "bendex"
I HAVE A SUGGESTION PERHAPS TOM AND RED AN ALL THE OTHER MONKEYS WOULD HELP ME SET IT UP. JUST IN ORDER TO COME TO CONCLUSIONS.

WE CAN SET UP A LIVE TRIAL ON THIS BLOG WHERE ONE PARTY IS THE PROSECUTER TEAM TRYING TO PROVE THAT JORAN AND FRIENDS ARE GUILTY WHILE THE OTHER PARTY MUST PROVE HIS INNOCENCE .

USING ALL THE INFORMATION WE CAN GET FROM MSN AND THE FORUM


ANYONE LIKES THE IDEA ?


Depends on who gets to be the judge!! Laughing
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KerinTX
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« Reply #1361 on: June 22, 2005, 02:21:31 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
So when Natalee made the statement to Joran about losing $360(?) dollars of her father's money...is that being interpreted to be over the entire time of their stay? And if so, this money she was geting from the ATM...do we heard how much?
Again, I have seen the photo of her outfit 100 times or more. Skirt and the blue/green top...on the beach in a group. So she carries only money and an ID with her in a pocket.


Kerin thats what kicks the perverbial ass, "email" SAYS $360 no proof. Rumor of ATM no proof.


well Absolut, get the PROOF ok?  Smile
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TG
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« Reply #1362 on: June 22, 2005, 02:22:24 AM »

I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.
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bendex
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« Reply #1363 on: June 22, 2005, 02:22:55 AM »

BUT KNOW WE CAN HAVE TO PARTIES SUMMARIZES EVERYTHING AN WE CAN ELLECT AN INTERNATIONAL JURY. NAD TOM OR RED IS THE JUDGE , JUST TO COME TO PROBABLE CONLUSIONS.  

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "bendex"
I HAVE A SUGGESTION PERHAPS TOM AND RED AN ALL THE OTHER MONKEYS WOULD HELP ME SET IT UP. JUST IN ORDER TO COME TO CONCLUSIONS.

WE CAN SET UP A LIVE TRIAL ON THIS BLOG WHERE ONE PARTY IS THE PROSECUTER TEAM TRYING TO PROVE THAT JORAN AND FRIENDS ARE GUILTY WHILE THE OTHER PARTY MUST PROVE HIS INNOCENCE .

USING ALL THE INFORMATION WE CAN GET FROM MSN AND THE FORUM


ANYONE LIKES THE IDEA ?


Isn't that what we are doing !  LOL  Wink
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Only the facts
absolut
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« Reply #1364 on: June 22, 2005, 02:23:32 AM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
So when Natalee made the statement to Joran about losing $360(?) dollars of her father's money...is that being interpreted to be over the entire time of their stay? And if so, this money she was geting from the ATM...do we heard how much?
Again, I have seen the photo of her outfit 100 times or more. Skirt and the blue/green top...on the beach in a group. So she carries only money and an ID with her in a pocket.


Kerin thats what kicks the perverbial ass, "email" SAYS $360 no proof. Rumor of ATM no proof.


well Absolut, get the PROOF ok?  Smile


If you only knew. Smile
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goon squad
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« Reply #1365 on: June 22, 2005, 02:24:53 AM »

1) I was not in front of a TV during Greta's program, and was going by reports as they came in on this message board.  It seems that my version of the friends' story of C&C is messed up.  I'm also now reading on this board that Ms. VDS did include the detail of Joran saying he left Natalee asleep on the beach (I can't believe she's not troubled by that.)Please check other details - trust, but verify.

2) Luna, my concern regarding potential conclusions drawn from Natalee's aggression was meant on a general level.  I think the family might have tried to keep this out of the picture because of fear of that conclusion being transmitted subliminally in the mass reporting of the details.  I did not mean this as a response to your message; I'm pretty sure, in fact, that I wrote that passage before your message was even posted.

3) <<I Kept my eyes on the ball the email is written in american english ,
while on international schools and dutch secondary schools they teach oxford englis . What is your taught on that ?>>

I think you shed more light in two minutes than I did in three hours.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #1366 on: June 22, 2005, 02:25:00 AM »

Quote from: "luna"
Okay, this is a long post.  But I felt someone needed to provide some counterpoint to goon squad's sweeping, and erroneous assessment.  
_________________________
OkayÖ.a few differing opinions:

Point 1: ďAs I mentioned before, from the e-mail, Joran has placed himself and Natalee at the hotel at a fixed time of the evening - at which point the concert is simultaneously ongoing. Forget about the fact that Natalee actually met Joran at a blackjack table. If Natalee can be placed at the concert during the "blackjack time" defined by the e-mail, then this part of the story is a LIE. ď

Counterpoint 1: Iím not sure what your point is here.  Her good friends said tonight that she met him at a blackjack table Sunday afternoon and then invited him to CnCs.  The concert was from 7 to 11, plenty of time to meet Joran beforehand.  This seems to be a FACT.

Point 2: According to the e-mail, Joran and the Kalpoes reached C&C's at approx. 12:30. Based on the story told, Deepak bought drinks, had a conversation, and left before the bar closed, which has him staying for less than 30 minutes. The C&C official statement suggests an 11:30PM arrival time for the people on the trip. One friend in tonight;s GVS interview stated she was gone one hour prior to closing. If you believe her friend, then this part of the e-mail story is a LIE.

Counterpoint 2:  What is the discrepancy?  If the place closes at 1 am, and the girlfriend left one hour before closing, she would have left at midnight.  What part of the story is a lie?  It could well be a FACT.

Point 3:  According to Mr. VDS as stated by Greta tonight, he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00PM. Based on the e-mail, there has to be a logical way that Joran was at the casino, talked to Natalee, called his friends, and went to McDonald's. If not, then Joran, Paulus, and/or Deepak are LYING.

Counterpoint 3:  What is wrong with this timeline?  Natís friends said they met in the afternoon.  He obviously had plenty of time to meet Natalee in the afternoon, call Deepak to arrange the meeting later that night (Deepak got off at 10 pmper e-mail), call his Dad at 11 pm.  Deepak said he picked him up at 12:10.  It all fits and could well be FACT.

Point 4: According to the e-mail, there's, at most, a 75 minute window to complete all of the events in the drive. If it started before 1:00 AM, that cuts down the already short time in the bar further. If it started after 1:00 AM, the window for the drive shrinks. If either one does not make logical sense, then it's a LIE.

Counterpoint 4:  Deepak says they left at 1 am, drove to the lighthouse (at most 15 miles one way, 30 miles round trip) and dropped Nat off at 2:15 am.  Seems completely feasible that they could drive roundtrip to the lighthouse, with no traffic, in 75 minutes.  Could well be FACT, we don't know.

Point 5: According to Ms. VDS as stated by Greta tonight, Joran told his mother that he left Natalee on the beach. (N.B.: No statement that Natalee was asleep, as stated in the MSNBC story yesterday). Ms. VDS has also said (can't remember if it was this interview or in a wire article) that guards prevent her from discussing the case with Joran during her visits to the prison. Therefore, Joran said this to his mother at some point prior to his detention. Meanwhile, the e-mail says that Joran and the Kalpoes dropped off Natalee at the HI. Not only is this a clear instance of a LIE by Joran and/or Deepak concerning the last moment Natalee was seen, it occurred prior to their detention, with its prolonged periods of intense interrogation.

Counterpoint 5:  It is a well known fact that when people are interrogated incessantly they begin to change their stories to match up with what the authorities want them to say. LE use this technique to gain false confessions all the time. After 11 straight hours of interrogation, it is possible that is what happened.  Even if the first version was a lie (which I tend to believe given the lack of video tape evidence), it is possible that they did leave her at the beach, eg somewhere near the HI or Marriott and something else happened to her.  

Point 6: According to the e-mail, at the last moment he saw Natalee, Deepak saw a black-shirted man with a walkie-talkie speak to Natalee. There is no evidence of this man, who was standing in front of the lobby, or this conversation. This portion of the e-mail, the "bottom" of the alibi, so to speak, is UNPROVEN.

Counterpoint 6:  Similarly, the lack of evidence does not make it untrue.  Someone could literally be getting away with murder.



Thank you, I was way to exhausted..... Smile
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Whitney
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« Reply #1367 on: June 22, 2005, 02:25:34 AM »

Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "luna"
Quote from: "Mom in Ark"
What has happened this evening?


Okay, Mom....I'll try to summarize quickly:

1) WonderWoman posted several e-mails (that was forwarded to her from a friend) from Deepak to a friend in the US.  They were very detailed and specific about what happened the night Natalee disappeared, even including details of how Nat met Joran.....saying she went up to him in the casino and introduced herself, asked him to help her win back money, then she bought him a drink and invited him to CnCs.  He called Deepak, and the three guys met up about midnight and went to CnCs about 12:30 am.

NOTE:  To me and others the e-mail seems suspiciously filled with unnecessary details that seem to corroborate his initial story to police....including them dropping her at the HI...

2)  Almost simultaneously, Greta interviewed two of Nat's friends who were in Aruba.....and they say virtually the same thing about how Nat met Joran.  That he sat down at the blackjack table and was approached by Nat....they even say he wasn't flirting with anyone, but she introduced herself.

IMHO, reading between the lines, it seems they knew that Nat wanted to spend time with him after Cncs closed and are covering for her.  Whether that means Nat wanted to "hook up" with him or not is open to speculation....I remember when I was that age....I would want to do some serious kissing, but not necessarily planning to "hook up."  I suspect that's what she was doing....but I thinkt he GFs were protecting her reputation.  Also, Nat and Joran apparently chatted about their plans and she undoubtedly knew he would be coming to Florida for college soon, and probably was infatuated with him....my take anyway.

3)  Greta showed Nat's mom approaching the VDS house and pop coming out and inviting them in with no cameras.  Talk lasted 90 minutes.  Key points:

Anita VDS believes son is innocent and he told her he left Nat on the beach.

Pop told Joran to stop talking to people, police got it on a phone tap, so that's why he can't talk to Joran.

Pop was wringing his hands, Mom was crying.  She gave Nat's mom a kiss on the cheek when leaving.
___________
That's as much of a nutshell as I can make!


I took one evening away, got on and tried to catch up...noted the "conflict" on this board...AND then THIS...anyone have the original email?  Or...I don't want to think about any implications beyond....in the Pacific time zone so it is so wierd coming back from dinner and hearing this...

Thank you to my friends, here.[/b]


since I'm catching up...I'm quoting myself...I hate that...

IMHO...this letter that's referred to...I've said so in another post...and I' hope it's down the line (in time) what I mean is on this thread...when you lay it out and read it...it's bogus...the syntax..the sytactical inconsistencies are incredibly STUPIDly arranged...

Someone from the FBI can tell you about the percentage TOTAL correct present perfects for a verb and then how the writer goes into 1940s Indian-movie-talk...."kimosabe, me go tohouse then you subsequently, burn house.  We wait in car...as I know you trick inhabitants..."  

Or some crap like that...
gotta get that bold print straight...thus the edit
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KerinTX
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« Reply #1368 on: June 22, 2005, 02:26:28 AM »

Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


I am not defending the 3 but there are many many cases of people who are innocent and have been, after expert interrogation...(i.e. good cop/bad cop stuff) coerced into confessing to crimes they did not commit.
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AzRose
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« Reply #1369 on: June 22, 2005, 02:28:59 AM »

Is anyone familiar with the layout to the Holiday Inn and the casino area's proximity to the front entrance?
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DT
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« Reply #1370 on: June 22, 2005, 02:29:24 AM »

Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


I don't think so.  There has been a lot of rumors and speculations though so its hard to know in some cases whether something has been said already.  there is a little new info, but its mostly irrelevant to the case.  All the major details of that night have been covered and reported.  I don't see why so many people are interested in it though, it really doesn't add much I don't think.  Of course even if it really did come from deepak you still would have to be highly skeptical of any detail in it, since we already know that he lied about a lot of the stuff at the end.
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Getagrip
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WWW
« Reply #1371 on: June 22, 2005, 02:29:39 AM »

Quote from: "Whitney"
since I'm catching up...I'm quoting myself...I hate that...

IMHO...this letter that's referred to...I've said so in another post...and I' hope it's down the line (in time) what I mean is on this thread...when you lay it out and read it...it's bogus...the syntax..the sytactical inconsistencies are incredibly STUPIDly arranged...

Someone from the FBI can tell you about the percentage TOTAL correct present perfects for a verb and then how the writer goes into 1940s Indian-movie-talk...."kimosabe, me go tohouse then you subsequently, burn house.  We wait in car...as I know you trick inhabitants..."  

Or some crap like that...

LOL ok, I'll quote you.  You're right on the syntax inconsistencies.

In addition, the name 'betty' was [sarcasm]inadvertently[/sarcasm] left in. If I were posting that, and was truly concerned that the identity of the email recipient wouldn't be revealed, I would have done a ctrl-f for 'betty' to make sure all such references were removed.  Then again, maybe that's just me Wink
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writenow
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« Reply #1372 on: June 22, 2005, 02:29:56 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "bendex"
I HAVE A SUGGESTION PERHAPS TOM AND RED AN ALL THE OTHER MONKEYS WOULD HELP ME SET IT UP. JUST IN ORDER TO COME TO CONCLUSIONS.

WE CAN SET UP A LIVE TRIAL ON THIS BLOG WHERE ONE PARTY IS THE PROSECUTER TEAM TRYING TO PROVE THAT JORAN AND FRIENDS ARE GUILTY WHILE THE OTHER PARTY MUST PROVE HIS INNOCENCE .

USING ALL THE INFORMATION WE CAN GET FROM MSN AND THE FORUM


ANYONE LIKES THE IDEA ?


I know this will sound strange coming from me. But I really don't think we have enough facts. If one were to be the defense atty. It would all be objected to.


Agreed. With something like the OJ trial which was broadcast live, we'd have evidence to work with. we just don't have enough, plus we have no interviews with the 4 suspects in custody.
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absolut
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« Reply #1373 on: June 22, 2005, 02:31:16 AM »

Quote from: "AzRose"
Is anyone familiar with the layout to the Holiday Inn and the casino area's proximity to the front entrance?


First get this confirmed as the same hotel from arubagirl or native but....this pic of the main entrance seems to beg more questions.

http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/hi/1/en/hpt/AUAAN/2/pt?ptLink=hd

See if that takes you to the virtual tour.
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tuberide
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« Reply #1374 on: June 22, 2005, 02:31:21 AM »

Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


well, i noticed that he didnt really capitalize anything in 'the email' and kind of just ran everything together, like someone that is able to type quickly and is pretty much typing a story just like they would speak it....as far as anything that we couldnt have come up with, why would the writer add a detail about her friends yelling as they passed ???......so hard to tell, but i do think that deepak wrote it, though i def. have doubts about the veracity of its contents
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Getagrip
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WWW
« Reply #1375 on: June 22, 2005, 02:32:21 AM »

Quote from: "DT"
I don't see why so many people are interested in it though, it really doesn't add much I don't think.  Of course even if it really did come from deepak you still would have to be highly skeptical of any detail in it, since we already know that he lied about a lot of the stuff at the end.

Because if you take it to be true, then it would imply that they are all innocent. And on the last sentence, I am in full agreement.
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chelsblu
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« Reply #1376 on: June 22, 2005, 02:32:21 AM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


I am not defending the 3 but there are many many cases of people who are innocent and have been, after expert interrogation...(i.e. good cop/bad cop stuff) coerced into confessing to crimes they did not commit.


You're right. And spent many years in jail as a result until DNA or dedicated attorney finally rights the wrong. It's a lot easier than you think to confess to something you didn't do under intense and illegal interrogation.. That's why more and more jurisdictions now require video taping of interrogations.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #1377 on: June 22, 2005, 02:33:22 AM »

Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Whitney"
since I'm catching up...I'm quoting myself...I hate that...

IMHO...this letter that's referred to...I've said so in another post...and I' hope it's down the line (in time) what I mean is on this thread...when you lay it out and read it...it's bogus...the syntax..the sytactical inconsistencies are incredibly STUPIDly arranged...

Someone from the FBI can tell you about the percentage TOTAL correct present perfects for a verb and then how the writer goes into 1940s Indian-movie-talk...."kimosabe, me go tohouse then you subsequently, burn house.  We wait in car...as I know you trick inhabitants..."  

Or some crap like that...

LOL ok, I'll quote you.  You're right on the syntax inconsistencies.

In addition, the name 'betty' was [sarcasm]inadvertently[/sarcasm] left in. If I were posting that, and was truly concerned that the identity of the email recipient wouldn't be revealed, I would have done a ctrl-f for 'betty' to make sure all such references were removed.  Then again, maybe that's just me Wink



Well we can't all be as brilliant as you guys, can we? Believe what you will, but there is no need to act like
arrogant [inadvertently]assh**es[/inadvertently]
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TG
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« Reply #1378 on: June 22, 2005, 02:34:02 AM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


I am not defending the 3 but there are many many cases of people who are innocent and have been, after expert interrogation...(i.e. good cop/bad cop stuff) coerced into confessing to crimes they did not commit.


Don't take this wrong but I have no idea how this pertains to my post.  He didn't confess, he explained in detail where he was and why he was innocent.  I'm probably lost like usual though don't mind me.
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Getagrip
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WWW
« Reply #1379 on: June 22, 2005, 02:35:04 AM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Well we can't all be as brilliant as you guys, can we? Believe what you will, but there is no need to act like
arrogant [inadvertently]assh**es[/inadvertently]

Hey, you're the one that put it out there for 'discussion'.  If I'm completely off-base, I'll issue a full apology and send you flowers  Rolling Eyes
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-------->  Aruba = Opposite World  <--------
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