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Author Topic: RBN # 16 - 6/21 thru 6/22  (Read 315389 times)
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Whitney
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« Reply #1380 on: June 22, 2005, 02:35:30 AM »

Quote from: "dragonfly"
Well, I've been mostly reading tonight.  I've not done much in the way of posting, but wanted to say something tonight before I head off to bed.  When I first started visiting this site very early on in this I was amazed at the wealth of information and the overall compassion and quest to solve this horrible mess.  All these people connected by this one site all with the goal of bringing Natalee home.  Friendly compassionate people.  I spent most of my time here and literally could not get my rear out of my chair to sleep, eat, or anything else.  From the beginning there were trolls.  At first, everyone would argue against them, then ignore them, then they would go away.  Once we all figured out how to deal with them, they didn't stay around long.  Then there came a point where posters who had a differing point of view were accused of being trolls.  This probably came from the short temper we all had due to arguing with trolls on a daily basis.  But we were still all pretty much a team trying to find out what happened to Natalee Holloway.  We were lucky enough to get a couple of MB students on here and some people from Aruba too.  We rallied around them when trolls would come or when others bashed them for any reason.  But, recently I must say that it has become a little less welcoming to visit here.  We seem to be picking at every little detail of every little post.  I think it very much comes from a lack of information out of Aruba and a frustration with a case that none of us expected to last so long.  We all want this girl to come home and I for one expected to know something by now.  Information is very slow coming out of Aruba and we really don't know much more than the day this started.  I respect the opinion of every person posting.  I may not agree with it.  I may want to constructively discuss it, compare it with my opinion, but I will never state my opinion as fact nor will I accuse yours of being wrong.  They are just different, not right or wrong.  The emails from Deepak may or may not be real, I have an opinion, but it doesn't make mine right.  FOX news may very well be the most watched cable news network, I really don't care, all I know is it's the only one I'm watching because it's the one with the most coverage of this case.  Natalee may or may not have been very drunk the night in question, I really don't know.  If I were 18, just back from Aruba where I had spent time drinking in a bar (illegal in my country and also looked down on for teenagers) I may fib a little about how drunk I was and how drunk my friends were.  I'm sure that I would.  That doesn't mean I think Natalee was falling down drunk, that's only to say that all children, all teens will turn a not so innocent moment into something more innocent when confronted about it.  Natalee seems like a wonderful young woman, but even wonderful young women flirt with goodlooking young men.  Being drunk and flirting (not saying she did this, only that she may have) doesn't make her any less of a person or any less worthy of our attention and compassion.  Natalee may or may not have run away once or spent 20 minutes at an ATM trying to get cash she lost at the casino, but that doesn't change the fact that she seems to be a lovely young lady.  Joran may be a wonderful young man with a little bit of a wild side, but that doesn't change the fact that he was with this young lady the night she went missing.  He and the others are in jail for a reason and whether it is for protection or because the authorities believe they know something they aren't telling, that is the case at this point.  Everything does point in the direction of these 3 young men.  Does that mean they are monsters and their parents don't deserve the same respect that Natalee's do?  No.  Anyway, my only point here is that we seem to have moved from infomation gathering and constructive theories and discussion to arguing over every little detail.  Goon squad had such good points in that post.  Basically saying that we don't really know much, but what we do know is pretty clear.  Natalee is missing and there are 3 people who pretty much have to know something about where she is or what happened to her.  Other than that, until we have more information, we are only beating our heads against a wall and it's making us all a little less friendly and a little more defensive.  I hope this will change and I hope Natalee comes home.  That's all.  You can beat me up now cause I'm too tired to fight back.   Laughing


I'm just catching up on posts, here, and I have nothing else to say but this...the dragongly has been, if nothing, but a dignified and truth-seeking writer.  

And I guess that's about what I have to say...just to be on the record!
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DT
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« Reply #1381 on: June 22, 2005, 02:36:09 AM »

Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "DT"
I don't see why so many people are interested in it though, it really doesn't add much I don't think.  Of course even if it really did come from deepak you still would have to be highly skeptical of any detail in it, since we already know that he lied about a lot of the stuff at the end.

Because if you take it to be true, then it would imply that they are all innocent. And on the last sentence, I am in full agreement.


Why would anyone take it to be true?  It's very well known that they later admitted lying about dropping natalee off at the HI.  I guess it might be interesting in that it came from deepak, but other than that I just don't find it to be worthy of all this discussion.
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AzRose
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« Reply #1382 on: June 22, 2005, 02:36:27 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Is anyone familiar with the layout to the Holiday Inn and the casino area's proximity to the front entrance?


First get this confirmed as the same hotel from arubagirl or native but....this pic of the main entrance seems to beg more questions.

http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/hi/1/en/hpt/AUAAN/2/pt?ptLink=hd

See if that takes you to the virtual tour.


Thanks, absolut.  I'm going to go check this out.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #1383 on: June 22, 2005, 02:38:20 AM »

Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Well we can't all be as brilliant as you guys, can we? Believe what you will, but there is no need to act like
arrogant [inadvertently]assh**es[/inadvertently]

Hey, you're the one that put it out there for 'discussion'.  If I'm completely off-base, I'll issue a full apology and send you flowers  Rolling Eyes



by all means please discuss, but why do you need to act like you are all DICK TRACY, not to mention an expert on Syntax blah blah....you know what, I have no need to defend, it just upsets me when people try to act as if they are better than everyone else....most likely why this case is going the way it is.
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Getagrip
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WWW
« Reply #1384 on: June 22, 2005, 02:38:23 AM »

Quote from: "DT"
I guess it might be interesting in that it came from deepak, but other than that I just don't find it to be worthy of all this discussion.

Again, agreed. Not worthy of discussion, but I have taken the time to read through all the posts and many people believe it to be real, and that there's some good insight to be gained, so I just wanted to point out some inconsistencies, because as goon squad said, we're losing focus.

But yeah, on that note, I'm going to stop discussing it. Thanks for the nudge in the right direction Smile
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-------->  Aruba = Opposite World  <--------
martin connahey
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« Reply #1385 on: June 22, 2005, 02:38:28 AM »

My friend gaijin wrote:

Quote
aah, and here I was afraid that I misjudged the ego and that you were going to ignore me...sorry I cant respond to all you grandious pontifications...but I scrolled through it. Had to laugh though that you sent two sceens to respond to two lines....but iwhat else do you have to do? And it aint the south. Its Queens. And you can beleive me, if you were here, I'd already have my foot on your throat.
Out.


Dearest Gaijin: I'll try my best to answer your questions. Here goes--

My ego is such that I do not ignore true friends like yourself. Please do not feel the need to repond to all my points, as it appears perhaps out of scope for you. Good job, tho, taking my advice of "scrolling thru" stuff. Told ya it works miracles, eh buddy?

What else do I have to do?, you asked. Glad you're interested. I enjoy racquetball, running, reading (non-fiction ONLY please!!!), watching old movies, and gardening. My regular job is boring, so once in a while I post here since the people all seem so nice, you included amigo!!!!!!!!!

Two screens for two lines? Yeah. That's me, tho. I just give, and give, and give. Truth be told, I believe in being thorough and polite.

About that "southern drawl." I said I only imagined it being southern, like in a movie. Funny, huh? Not that I really think you have a southern drawl. My bad. But I put the word "imagined" in bold, above, so you can notice it more, and maybe look it up in a dictionary. It's a FUN word. I use it a lot. So now, if we both start using it, we can be "word-buddies." The term "word-buddies" is something I just made up!!!!!!!! I like making stuff up?

Queens, eh? Sounds like a neat place. Do they have chinese restaurants there? I LOVE chinese food, esp'ly mu shu chicken. Yum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do they call it mu shu, gaijin? What's up with that?

You'd have your foot on my throat? Hmmm. I'll have to think about that one Gai. "Doe-dee-DEEN-hubba-hubba-gai-JEEN."

{ That's me thinking, out loud of course !!!!!!!!!!!! }.

Well, if you put your foot on my throat, then my throat would be on your foot. How cool is that?

You're a neat guy, and I have a tiny, tiny idea that maybe you'd have loads of fun in one of those anger management classes sorta like my Aunt Lucy took. She's a hoot, like you. One day she was washing carrots before lunch. The faucet wouldn't work and, boi-oi-iong, she snapped. Ran around the house chopping at stuff, Uncle Frank's neck included!!!!!! Ugggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!! She spent some time in a "special" hospital but is sort of alright now (emphasis on the "sort of").

So, if you ever do take one of those classes, or get arrested for acting the angry-man and putting your foot on someone's throat, say hi to Aunt Lucy for me cuz she'll probably be in that class forever. It's a condition of her parole from the special hospital.

Night, my pal. Give my best to all the cool people in Queens.

( Hey, who says you don't meet buds on the net? NOT me, that's for sure ).

{{ If this is too long for you to read in one sitting, just break it up into single sentences. That's what my +++++++ Uncle Matt does. And he's a WINNER, like you. }}

Thanks again for the post, gai.

Out ( I used to not say "out," but since you say it, and you're a cool-but-tough man from Queens, I'm gonna start copying you and being cool too!!!! Deal? Deal ).

-MC
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Another K in Texas
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« Reply #1386 on: June 22, 2005, 02:39:41 AM »

WW may think the e-mail is legit and if so needs to forward it to the FBI.

I remember Nat's mom saying she hoped she was having fun that last night.

Nat introducing herself to someone at her table to me is no big deal.


Plus, I have said all along that Joran and Nat would have much in common. Bright, way brighter than average, attractive, headed to colleges in the South.  I can see the attraction and see why no one would have flags of danger going off.

I don't see why if the HI story is true, anyone changed the story.

The truth does not change.

That means that either Joran is telling a lie or his friends or (if you buy into the e-mail)

Now, why on earth would Joran NOT support the HI story if true.  That one has someone party or parties unknown harming her.    It was the story he told to begin with.  

But not the one he told to his mom.  Why would they not be the same?


The apparent conflict between Joran's story to his mom and the e-mail story is the one interesting thing in all this.

In my opinion.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #1387 on: June 22, 2005, 02:40:25 AM »

Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "DT"
I don't see why so many people are interested in it though, it really doesn't add much I don't think.  Of course even if it really did come from deepak you still would have to be highly skeptical of any detail in it, since we already know that he lied about a lot of the stuff at the end.

Because if you take it to be true, then it would imply that they are all innocent. And on the last sentence, I am in full agreement.


Why would anyone take it to be true?  It's very well known that they later admitted lying about dropping natalee off at the HI.  I guess it might be interesting in that it came from deepak, but other than that I just don't find it to be worthy of all this discussion.


We do not KNOW anything, including IF they ever changed their stories, or IF the guards are honest in their "stories"......
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bendex
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« Reply #1388 on: June 22, 2005, 02:42:07 AM »

THE WHOLE IDEA IS THAT WE CAN MAKE PARAMETERS TO ESTABLISH WHICH RUMOURS CAN BE SUBMITTED AS PROBABLE FACTS. AN ARGUMENT IS SUPPORTED BY FACTS. FURTHERMORE BY TRYING THIS WE FILTER OUT FALSE RUMOURS ASWELL AS THEY WILL BE DISPUTED IN STRUCTURED MANNER APLYING LOGICS.

IT WOULD BE REALLY COOL THAT THE PRO JORAN IS NOT GUILTY MONKEYS SHOULD PROVE HIS GUILT AND THE PRO JORAN IS GUILTY SHOULD PORVE HIS INNOCENCE YOU WILL BE SUPRISED THAT WE CAN COME TO WHOLE NEW CONCLUSIONS WHICH MIGHT SHINE A NEW LIGHT ON THE CASE ...................... THAT WOULD BE THE WHOLE IDEA



Quote from: "writenow"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "bendex"
I HAVE A SUGGESTION PERHAPS TOM AND RED AN ALL THE OTHER MONKEYS WOULD HELP ME SET IT UP. JUST IN ORDER TO COME TO CONCLUSIONS.

WE CAN SET UP A LIVE TRIAL ON THIS BLOG WHERE ONE PARTY IS THE PROSECUTER TEAM TRYING TO PROVE THAT JORAN AND FRIENDS ARE GUILTY WHILE THE OTHER PARTY MUST PROVE HIS INNOCENCE .

USING ALL THE INFORMATION WE CAN GET FROM MSN AND THE FORUM


ANYONE LIKES THE IDEA ?


I know this will sound strange coming from me. But I really don't think we have enough facts. If one were to be the defense atty. It would all be objected to.


Agreed. With something like the OJ trial which was broadcast live, we'd have evidence to work with. we just don't have enough, plus we have no interviews with the 4 suspects in custody.
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Only the facts
sb
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« Reply #1389 on: June 22, 2005, 02:42:28 AM »

That account is basically the received text of events before the guys all got put in jail and started changing their stories. That girl "Larissa" was on blogs and on at least 1 TV interview saying these things. This is the "official story" they put together and told their friends, ANY of whom could have been responsible for the e-mail. Or it could have been a hoax.

I don't think it adds much, althought there is 1 detail in there that I want to recheck. Be back!
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Natalee's family/friends still need our prayers.
Another K in Texas
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« Reply #1390 on: June 22, 2005, 02:45:03 AM »

ONly problem with the game some of you want to play is that there is a real girl missing and probably dead.  This is not some tv crime show.


It is life and I know I am the serious stick in the mud type, but something just chafes me to see someone's agony turned into a parlor game.

To me it just seems disrespecful.

But then I am not into all this satire and wit and such.
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bendex
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« Reply #1391 on: June 22, 2005, 02:45:04 AM »

CHAU MY NEW WON AMERICAN FRIENDS, I AM GOING TO HIT THE SACK.

IF ANYONE INTERESTED IN MY IDEA SENT ME A P.M.
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Only the facts
CaliGirl
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« Reply #1392 on: June 22, 2005, 02:47:15 AM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


I am not defending the 3 but there are many many cases of people who are innocent and have been, after expert interrogation...(i.e. good cop/bad cop stuff) coerced into confessing to crimes they did not commit.


AF**KINMEN!

How many people have confessed to crimes due to too much stress and harshful interegations? MANY.
How many are still being freed because of DNA proving their confessions to be false or coerced? MANY
Why are their laws protecting those accussed of crimes? Because you can only convict a gulty person of evidence. Not hearsay, not because you think they did something, have a hunch or anything of the sort but because you saw evidence.

This whole case has been nothing but drama. Not one, and I will repeat one damn person can tell the truth and I will include, Natalee's friends who were on TV night. Throw stones at me I don't care, I had to say it cause I am tired of the endless meaningless finger-pointing.

If you want to have theories go for it. You want to discuss evidence, stories or what not, go for it. But for the love of gawd, the only person who absolutely has the right to judge someone, is the biggest judge of all GOD.
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KerinTX
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« Reply #1393 on: June 22, 2005, 02:47:44 AM »

Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


I am not defending the 3 but there are many many cases of people who are innocent and have been, after expert interrogation...(i.e. good cop/bad cop stuff) coerced into confessing to crimes they did not commit.


Don't take this wrong but I have no idea how this pertains to my post.  He didn't confess, he explained in detail where he was and why he was innocent.  I'm probably lost like usual though don't mind me.


TG, my post was in reply to your sentence about them changing their story. What I am saying is that IF they really did change stories (do we REALLY have facts on this?) then maybe they did so after the constant pressure from LE? Joran's mom stated to GVS that Joran had been interrogated over 11 hours per day sometimes. That's all I meant...
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"What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"
DT
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« Reply #1394 on: June 22, 2005, 02:48:14 AM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "DT"
I don't see why so many people are interested in it though, it really doesn't add much I don't think.  Of course even if it really did come from deepak you still would have to be highly skeptical of any detail in it, since we already know that he lied about a lot of the stuff at the end.

Because if you take it to be true, then it would imply that they are all innocent. And on the last sentence, I am in full agreement.


Why would anyone take it to be true?  It's very well known that they later admitted lying about dropping natalee off at the HI.  I guess it might be interesting in that it came from deepak, but other than that I just don't find it to be worthy of all this discussion.


We do not KNOW anything, including IF they ever changed their stories, or IF the guards are honest in their "stories"......


If the guards weren't honest in their stories then why on earth weren't they arrested?  I mean I don't know about you but if I hear a former suspect making up something to try and stick it on someone else I would arrest them again.  Every single news outlet that I can think of is saying that the suspects stories have changed.  It might be possible that the boys have been telling the same consistent story, but it doesn't look like it at this point.  Anyways, if evidence comes up suggesting that they have then I'll change my mind, I certainly don't have anything against them or a desire to see them wrongly acccused.
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tuberide
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« Reply #1395 on: June 22, 2005, 02:49:05 AM »

Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
ONly problem with the game some of you want to play is that there is a real girl missing and probably dead.  This is not some tv crime show.


It is life and I know I am the serious stick in the mud type, but something just chafes me to see someone's agony turned into a parlor game.

To me it just seems disrespecful.

But then I am not into all this satire and wit and such.


i hear you K but the majority of repeat posters i see here are so intrigued is due to their overwhelming desire to arrive at a HOPEFULLY postivie outcome.....we cant all just sit here and cry on each others shoulders
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DT
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« Reply #1396 on: June 22, 2005, 02:50:04 AM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


I am not defending the 3 but there are many many cases of people who are innocent and have been, after expert interrogation...(i.e. good cop/bad cop stuff) coerced into confessing to crimes they did not commit.


AF**KINMEN!

How many people have confessed to crimes due to too much stress and harshful interegations? MANY.
How many are still being freed because of DNA proving their confessions to be false or coerced? MANY
Why are their laws protecting those accussed of crimes? Because you can only convict a gulty person of evidence. Not hearsay, not because you think they did something, have a hunch or anything of the sort but because you saw evidence.

This whole case has been nothing but drama. Not one, and I will repeat one damn person can tell the truth and I will include, Natalee's friends who were on TV night. Throw stones at me I don't care, I had to say it cause I am tired of the endless meaningless finger-pointing.

If you want to have theories go for it. You want to discuss evidence, stories or what not, go for it. But for the love of gawd, the only person who absolutely has the right to judge someone, is the biggest judge of all GOD.


Out of curiosity when have natalee's friends lied on TV?
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #1397 on: June 22, 2005, 02:51:08 AM »

Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


I am not defending the 3 but there are many many cases of people who are innocent and have been, after expert interrogation...(i.e. good cop/bad cop stuff) coerced into confessing to crimes they did not commit.


AF**KINMEN!

How many people have confessed to crimes due to too much stress and harshful interegations? MANY.
How many are still being freed because of DNA proving their confessions to be false or coerced? MANY
Why are their laws protecting those accussed of crimes? Because you can only convict a gulty person of evidence. Not hearsay, not because you think they did something, have a hunch or anything of the sort but because you saw evidence.

This whole case has been nothing but drama. Not one, and I will repeat one damn person can tell the truth and I will include, Natalee's friends who were on TV night. Throw stones at me I don't care, I had to say it cause I am tired of the endless meaningless finger-pointing.

If you want to have theories go for it. You want to discuss evidence, stories or what not, go for it. But for the love of gawd, the only person who absolutely has the right to judge someone, is the biggest judge of all GOD.


Out of curiosity when have natalee's friends lied on TV?


Tonite, on FOX with Greta.
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bamarez
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« Reply #1398 on: June 22, 2005, 02:51:29 AM »

Just a few thoughts after the questionable email. Sorry if they've already been brought up...too many pages to review.

 - Reported events/rumors near the end of the email seem to reference events past the orginal date of the email, 06/05.

 - "Deepak" has an awful lot of detail for the first part of the story in the Casino, where he admits later, he wasn't even present. Plus, as others have already mentioned, some of  the details are a little too much for an email. What about ... "she got out of the car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately..." Under what circumstances would someone feel the need to specify what car door someone exited from?  
 
 - The work hours he indicates that are his normal hours, "monday i came to work normally 4- 11 pm", don't jive with the question of his friend asking "do you have to work tomorrow morning" or "i got off my shift at 10 pm".

Questions:
- Is the travel time possible, "and then me and my younger brother went to pick up my friend was around 12.10 am so i came to his home and was talked for like 15 min and then left to go to carlos (we all went out without or parents knew) so we arrived like 12.30 am in carlos "

- If JVDS really snuck out on a school night, and was supposedly held to a curfew on school nights...why would his Father tell authorities that he was out playing poker somewhere? How would he know?
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DT
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« Reply #1399 on: June 22, 2005, 02:52:20 AM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "TG"
I think those e-mails are fake also.  
Explaining step by step what he was doing that night seems awfully suspicious to me.

Why would he feel the need to write so much to convince a friend that he is innocent?  "Guilty concience"  (I can't spell it).

Is there anything in there that someone reading this
site couldn't come up with?  This is an honest question.

I don't think innocent people have to change there story.


I am not defending the 3 but there are many many cases of people who are innocent and have been, after expert interrogation...(i.e. good cop/bad cop stuff) coerced into confessing to crimes they did not commit.


AF**KINMEN!

How many people have confessed to crimes due to too much stress and harshful interegations? MANY.
How many are still being freed because of DNA proving their confessions to be false or coerced? MANY
Why are their laws protecting those accussed of crimes? Because you can only convict a gulty person of evidence. Not hearsay, not because you think they did something, have a hunch or anything of the sort but because you saw evidence.

This whole case has been nothing but drama. Not one, and I will repeat one damn person can tell the truth and I will include, Natalee's friends who were on TV night. Throw stones at me I don't care, I had to say it cause I am tired of the endless meaningless finger-pointing.

If you want to have theories go for it. You want to discuss evidence, stories or what not, go for it. But for the love of gawd, the only person who absolutely has the right to judge someone, is the biggest judge of all GOD.


Out of curiosity when have natalee's friends lied on TV?


Tonite, on FOX with Greta.


What was it specifically?
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