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Author Topic: RBN # 16 - 6/21 thru 6/22  (Read 317701 times)
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Whitney
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« Reply #200 on: June 21, 2005, 07:58:47 PM »

Quote from: "cancon"
yeah I guess volunteering to go to Aruba is tough for those cable hosts, though Greta is clearly not a sun person, the list for Baghdad looks empty though.....

if martin doesn't write for onion or scrabbleface he should, LOL

the plot does thicken, my own new theory is that either the Kalpoes in fact dropped N & J at his bachelor pad in the first place or they were telling the truth that they dropped them off at the Marriott and somehow N & J end up at the bachelor pad

but then where does Croes come in, disposal of the body later, or could it be as simple as Joran called Croes and says if anyone asks, because maybe Croes was at the C & C that night, we dropped that American chick off at the Holiday Inn and then he got the Kalpoes on side to lie for him too

maybe he said to the Kalpoes, I didn't kill that girl but I'll get blamed for it or worse he said we'll all get blamed for it or ooh, what if he said, if you don't lie for me, I'll say you guys did it, and look, when the brothers changed their story implicating Joran didn't Joran change his story implicating the Kalpoes???????

hmmmm

on riehl world they are reporting that Joran is being interrogated non stop today, gotta be careful though, confessions have been thrown out in cases where people have been interrogated for several hours without a break.....


I know this scenario has been discussed, but it certainly is one that's made more sense as all these casts of 4 characters are now in prison or jail.  The three boys are now reported in the KIA prison, and the infamous SGC is in his jail cell.

For those who've not read the story, here it is:  http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/
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CancunMole
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« Reply #201 on: June 21, 2005, 07:59:01 PM »

Quote from: "goon squad"
From recent wire article:

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/local/11949664.htm

" ...[Beau] Barron [NH classmate on trip] said people who went on the trip aren't publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway's family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation."


How could anyone in the US discussing details of what happened in Aruba hamper an investigation that is taking place in Aruba? Help me out please because I don't understand that logic.
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KerinTX
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« Reply #202 on: June 21, 2005, 07:59:25 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
OK...so someone may have posted this already but are the Holloways allowed by Aruban law to petition the court to be shown all the evidence?


They are allowed but a judge has turned them down til the suspects are charged.

thanks
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jac723
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« Reply #203 on: June 21, 2005, 07:59:26 PM »

Quote from: "sarah"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
OK...so someone may have posted this already but are the Holloways allowed by Aruban law to petition the court to be shown all the evidence?


I think they are allowed to petition, but the court can say no.  I believe they actually did say no today.


I saw and heard on fox-the judge already said they are not interested in the motion.  The suspects have to be charged where right now they are accused.  So the lawyer can not help the family with that right now.
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Jennifer
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« Reply #204 on: June 21, 2005, 07:59:51 PM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
has anyone seen DJTaylor? Did she have her baby?


no idea...just got back...did you see how many letters/word i can put together if i really try???  

 Laughing
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peace to all
littletxlady
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« Reply #205 on: June 21, 2005, 07:59:52 PM »

Quote from: "Terry"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "absolut"
Ok I am not trying to sound cold, but this will come out that way.

What in the world does Greta, Beth and the VDS say to each other for 90 mins.

Question 1: Where is my daughter?
Question 2: Looks a lot like question 1.

What can the VDS say back that doesn't let the world know something is up?

90 Mins. thats longer than some feature films. More time than the clock in football or basketball.

A lifetime Natalee's lifetime. I couldn't spend 90 mins in there if I knew they were lying.

My guess is that it's more like Greta followed Beth around while she was passing out her prayer slips...they came to VDS home, Beth spoke with them for a few minutes.  90 minutes is probably the amount of time Greta was with Beth, IMO.
No, I heard it said on Fox, Greta and BT where in the home for 90 minutes.


Greta met with BHT this am for an interview (I think) and she asked Beth how she was feeling this am, BHT said I'm angry. Greta asked why and BHT said she wanted to talk to the VDS'sand greta said let's go. She'll be on later with "the rest of the story"
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Joran is truly EVIL

Casey's only truthful statement:  "Well...maybe I'm a spiteful bitch"
 
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Kshe78
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« Reply #206 on: June 21, 2005, 08:00:17 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Ok I am not trying to sound cold, but this will come out that way.

What in the world does Greta, Beth and the VDS say to each other for 90 mins.

Question 1: Where is my daughter?
Question 2: Looks a lot like question 1.

What can the VDS say back that doesn't let the world know something is up?

90 Mins. thats longer than some feature films. More time than the clock in football or basketball.

A lifetime Natalee's lifetime. I couldn't spend 90 mins in there if I knew they were lying.


I noticed in the teaser on Fox that Natalee's mother was carrying books of some type.  I'm wondering if it was albums of Natalee, or something like that.  She was trying to appeal to them as a parent, maybe?  Telling stories about her daughter, etc.
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monkeysMOO
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« Reply #207 on: June 21, 2005, 08:00:38 PM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
tonight must be the night Greta goes through the VDS's trash cans as I predicted earlier.


LOL, Kerin, maybe she had her producers do that while she was distracting them with her 90-minute interview?   Wink

Maybe the garbage contents will be tomorrow's OTR 'scoop'...
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KerinTX
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« Reply #208 on: June 21, 2005, 08:01:13 PM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
has anyone seen DJTaylor? Did she have her baby?


no idea...just got back...did you see how many letters/word i can put together if i really try???  

 Laughing

FOM..I am so proud of you! Your are growing up so quickly!!!  Wink
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jac723
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« Reply #209 on: June 21, 2005, 08:01:14 PM »

Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "kuaitzu"
Quote from: "Rob"
if ms twitty is correct and natalee was at jvds house, then that narrows the time line to only 2 hours when natalee was unaccounted for....


Wonder how Beth H-T knows Natalee was at Jorans at 3am???


I'm guessing she has information from the investigation not available to the public.  My guess would be one of the suspects gave this out in investigation, or they have some sort of email from joran saying this.


I don't know if anything came out on the pictures found--
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Jennifer
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« Reply #210 on: June 21, 2005, 08:02:35 PM »

Quote from: "monkeysMOO"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
tonight must be the night Greta goes through the VDS's trash cans as I predicted earlier.


LOL, Kerin, maybe she had her producers do that while she was distracting them with her 90-minute interview?   Wink

Maybe the garbage contents will be tomorrow's OTR 'scoop'...

Yeah Monkey, they will probably keep us hanging all day just to see a few banana peels and a used copy of People Magazine.
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HannieC
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« Reply #211 on: June 21, 2005, 08:02:46 PM »

cancon wrote:

Quote
about confessions

there have been many cases where someone has been interrogated for several hours without a break, youthful offenders and adults, and they will confess to anything just to make it stop

and then they recant their confession and say they confessed under duress

and in many instances it is later proven that they were in fact innocent

sometimes the confession is thrown out, other times not and sometimes an innocent person went to jail to be cleared later......

I think presence of counsel is another factor but I cannot imagine any lawyer allowing their client to be grilled for that long continuously




That is absolutly true, it`s the same in Holland, the famous case is
that of 2 guys who been in prison for over 6 years b/c the confessed to a murder they don`t even commited only b/c of the pressure with the interrogation
They are free now and they sued the dutch state and won over that.

Here it isn`t legal to do some sort 'hard' interrogation here `this sort of interrogation is called; "de zaanse verhoormethode". I believe in the US this system it`s called the 'Reidtechnique".
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RB
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« Reply #212 on: June 21, 2005, 08:03:04 PM »

How could anyone in the US discussing details of what happened in Aruba hamper an investigation that is taking place in Aruba? Help me out please because I don't understand that logic.

CancunMole, it's inconceivable to me that it would hamper it, unless there are details which can be construed in a manner the Holloways don't agree with. That is a point of concern for me, and does make me slightly wary about the "whys" behind that statement.
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Lausa
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« Reply #213 on: June 21, 2005, 08:04:03 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"

WE HAVE WHAT WE CALL DUE PROCESS TO GET AT THE TRUTH AND TO METE OUT APPROPRIATE PUNISHMENT.  IT IS CALLED DUE PROCESS.  THE ENTIRE JUDICIARY AND THE RESPECTIVE POLICE FORCES ARE IN PLACE TO PROTECT THE INTEREST SOCIETY (THE VICTIMS) WHILE AT THE SAME TIME MAKING SURE WE DON'T FALSELY ACCUSE AND PUNISH THE INNOCENT.   IT IS AN OLD PRINCIPLE WHICH DISTINGUISHES US FROM BARBARIANS.

Thank you.
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iquitos
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« Reply #214 on: June 21, 2005, 08:04:35 PM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "Catriana"
Quote
The family isn't looking for justice...they are looking for their daughter. I wouldn't mind if he was interrogated 24hrs if he resulted in finding Natalee.


I was thinking that just this morning.  If I were Natalee's parents, I wouldn't care about the Aruban's "case" against anyone, I would do whatever it takes to get those boys to tell WHERE NATALEE IS.

You are so right, for the family it isn't about the investigation, it isn't about the "legal" ramifications, it isn't about the "case"... it's about finding their missing daughter.

It's too bad that it doesn't appear to be about "finding Natalee" to those investigating.    I really can't believe that after all this time, they don't know exactly what happened and if that's true, why haven't Natalee's parents been told where Natalee is?

There should be only one goal, FIND NATALEE.   If the investigators have information that can help the family find Natalee, they should TELL (to heck with any court case).


Thank you Catriana...I think I can that just about EVERYONE here just wants Natalee home at any cost.


As I hope the same but I think we are all frustrated and I hope anything they are keeping to themselves is because they are onto where she is. I can only pray.
 

AND IF SOMEBODY TELLS THEM WHERE NATELEE IS UNDER DURESS AND GOES SCOTT FREE BECASUE OF THE ILLEGAL INTERROGATION METHODS THEN THAT IS OK?   WE ARE TALKING LEGAL MINOR HERE FOLKS.  DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.
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KerinTX
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« Reply #215 on: June 21, 2005, 08:04:53 PM »

UH OH....warning to our Aruban friends. Mrs. Holloway showed up at the VDS house again without an invitation. Just letting you all know before we get into the details of the meeting.
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Professor
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« Reply #216 on: June 21, 2005, 08:05:10 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
THIS IS AS FAR AS I CAN GO RIGHT NOW. SOUNDS LIKE PROPAGANDA. IT IS ENOUGH TO GET AN IDEA. NOT PERFECT. WHAT A LANGUAGE. I THINK IT IS CLOSEST TO LADINO, THE LANGUAGE OF THE JEWS EXILED FROM SPAIN BY THE INQUISITION, SOME OF WHOM ENDED UP IN THE ANTILLES.

UN CRISIS FUERA DI PROPORCION!
A CRISIS OUT OF PROPORTION

Sin cu nos tabata kier ni a buske, Aruba a haya su mes den un luz basta negativo durante e ultimo dos simannan, pa motibo di un caso cu ta sigui mantene nos atencion claba riba dje. WITHOUT WANTING OR LOOKING FOR IT ARUBA FINDS ITSELF IN A PRETTY NEGATIVE LIGHT THE LAST TWO WEEKS BECAUSE OF A CASE THAT CAPTIVATES OUR ATTENTION.

E tin e apariencia di no ta bayendo ningun caminda, cu el a stanca, cu e speranza di haya Natalee cu bida ta menguando. Hopi hende, tanto local como stranhero, a buske tur caminda sin exito. A usa ekiponan sofistica y cachonan experto den localiza curpanan dera sin resultadonan positivo. E mucha muher ta sigui desapareci, el a somenta sin laga hueya, creando un misterio cu ta bayendo pa largo.

IT APPEARS IT IS NOT GOING WELL, THAT IT IS STAGNATED. THE HOPE OF FINDING NATALEE ALIVE IS DISAPPEARING. HOPE IS FADING BOTH LOCAL AND FOREIGN AS THE SEARCH GOES ON WITHOUT SUCCESS THAT THE SEACH IS WITHOUT SUCCESS. SOPHISTICATED EQUIPMENT AND DOGS THAT FIND BODIES ARE WITHOUT POSITIVE RESULT. THE GIRL IS STILL DISAPPEARED WITHOUT A TRACE CREATING A MYSTERY THAT GOES ON TOO LONG.

Ta unda a keda nos pa buske? E lo ta scondi den algun cas, protegi pa algun amigo o conocido, of e ta ser reteni contra su voluntad pa cualke grupo iregular? E por a yega Merca? No ta importa si el a laga su pasaporte atras, pasobra Americanonan por sali di Aruba cu cualke carchi di identificacion manera rijbewijs, carchi di seguro social, o certificado di nacimento.

WHERE CAN WE LOOK THAT HAS NOT BEEN SEARCHED? IS SHE HIDDEN IN SOME HOUSE, PROTECTED BY SOME FRIEND OR ACQUAINTANCE OR IS SHE BEING HELD AGAINST HER WILL BY SOME IRREGULAR GROUP? IT IS NOT IMPORTANT THAT SHE LEFT HER PASSPORT BEHIND. AN AMERICAN CAN LEAVE ARUBA ON ANY ID, DRIVERS LICENCE, SOCIAL SECURITY CARD OR BIRTH CERTIFICATE

E por ta na Venezuela o Colombia? E ta improbable, pero semper e posibilidad ey ta keda existi. Cu un lancha rapido bo por yega e costa mas cercano di Falcon den mey hora. Si e ta na bida ainda, di con no por a haye cu tanto esfuerzo cu a ser desplega y tanto voluntario cu a rondea den delaster pida mondi y costa na Aruba? Y si e ta morto, pakico no por a localiza ni rastro di su restonan?

IS SHE IN VENEZUELA OR COLOMBIA? IT IS NOT PROBABLE BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY. A FAST BOAT CAN ARRIVE IN FALCON IN A HALF HOUR. IF SHE IS STILL ALIVE, WHY CAN'T SHE BE FOUND WITH THE MASSIVE EFORT AND SO MANY VOLUNTEERS SEARCHING THE HILLS AND COAST OF ARUBA. AND IF DEAD, WHY IS THERE NO TRACE OF HER REMAINS?

Cu e caso aki por afecta turismo? Claro cu si, pero esey no ta nos preocupacion primordial. Loke tin nos angustia ta Natalee mes. Cualke caida den turismo nos por recupera, pero Natalee ta keda iremplazable! Ta e factor humano ta ocupa nos mentenan y curazonnan, pasobra e parti material, o sea turismo, nos por remedia. Ta e dolor di su famia nos ta comparti, ta e angustia di e mayornan a acapara nos compasion.

COULD THE CASE AFFECT ON TOURISM? SURELY BUT THAT IS NOT THE MAIN CONCERN. WE WILL RECOVER FROM ANY DROP IN TOURISM. BUT NATALEE WILL REMAIN IRREPLACEABLE. IT IS THE HUMAN FACTOR THAT OCCUPIES OUR MINDS AND HEARTS ABOVE THE MATERIAL CONCERNS, OR TOURISM, WHICH WE CAN REPAIR. WE SHARE THE PAIN OF THE FAMILY AND THEIR AGONY CAPTURES OUR COMPASSION.

ta conserva e opinion cu ni maske cuanto hende pinta Aruba preto na Merca, semper tin otronan cu ta defende nos isla pasobra nan conoce y nan sa cu Aruba ta keda un di e lugarnan mas sigur na mundo.

THE FACT REMAINS THAT WHEN SOMEBODY PAINTS ARUBA BLACK IN THE MARKET, THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER WHO KNOWS ARUBA REMAINS ONE OF THE SAFEST PLACES IN THE WORLD.

No ta e beyeza di nos beachnan so a yama e atencion di e turistanan cu ta bishita nos isla repetidamente y den gran cantidad, ta e calidad humano di nos poblacion a conkista nan curazonnan.

IT IS NOT JUST THE BEAUTIFUL BEACHES THAT ATTRACT ATTENTION OF TOURISTS WHO VISIT OVER AND OVER AGIN AND IN LARGE NUMBERS BUT ALSO THE HUMAN QUALITY OF OUR POPULATION WHICH CONQUEST THEIR HEARTS

Ta e trato cu nan a ricibi di nos hendenan a haya eco den nan sentimentonan, pesey awor nan ta recompensa nos cu nan palabranan cari¤oso; cu nan defensanan na fabor di nos isla; cu nan protestanan publico contra esnan cu sin conoce nos isla o nos pueblo ta asina dispuesto di expresa opinionnan negativo sin e aval di realidad.

THE TREATMENT THEY RECEIVE FINDS ECHO IN THEIR SENTIMENTS AND IS COMPENSATED IN THEIR AFFECTIONATE WORDS WHICH DEFEND THE ISLAND AND PROTEST PUBLICLY AGAINST THOSE WHO WITHOUT KNOWING THE ISLAND EXPRESS NEGATIVE OPINIONS WITHOUT THE BACKING OF REALITY.

Pasobra Aruba no ta un lugar unda criminalidad tin un incidencia halto, un caso manera esaki por a logra tanto atencion den exterior. E ta un incidente aisla, perpetra pa elemento(nan) aheno na nos cultura, na nos disposicion pacifico, na nos caracter amplio, abierto, y decente como Pueblo.

BECAUSE ARUBA IS NOT A PLACE WITH A HIGH CRIME RATE, ONE CASE LIKE THIS ONE CAN GRAB ATTENTION OVERSEAS. IT IS AN ISOLATED INCIDEN PERPETRATED BY ELEMENTS ALIEN TO OUR CULTURE, OUR PEACEFUL DISPOSITION OUR AMPLE CHARACTER, OPEN AND DECENT AS A PEOPLE


E ta ademas, un caso lora den nubianan di misterio cada vez mas denso, menos penetrable hasta pa e wowonan mas experto den e mundo policial y investigativo. Esaki ta un desaparicion cu no a laga evidencianan palpable, algo solido riba cual Polis por traha.

Fuera di esey, mi tin entendi cu e detenidonan no ta bisando nada adicional, sino simplemente cu nan a laga Natalee (cu o sin Joran) riba e tereno un tiki panoord di Marriott hotel. E storia aki nan ta sigui ripiti cu insistencia, aunke tin tambe varios discrepancia den nan declaracionnan.

Pa loke ta trata e eficiencia di nos cuerpo Policial, no laga ningun hende ga¤a nan mes: e ta di e mihornan den nos region, y sigur uno cu nos por bisa cu conviccion di ta hopi profesional.

Nos cu a sigui nan actividadnan durante e ultimo 25 a¤anan di cerca por bisa den voz halto cu ta trata di un cuerpo policial cu tin un integridad grandi, y esey ta descarta cualke posibilidad di un tapamento o un complicidad basa riba amistad cu un of otro familiar di cualke un di e detenidonan.

Den mi buki di tur e hechonan delictivo cu a tuma lugar riba nos isla durante e ultimo 25 a¤anan, e actuacionnan certero di e Cuerpo Policial di Aruba ta skirbi cu leternan di oro!

E caso di Natalee a pone nos den un crisis emocional grandi, y otronan cu no conoce nos isla y no sa con nos Pueblo ta razona, a convirtie den un crisis publicitario fuera di tur proporcion.

Na Aruba no ta existi criminalnan cu ta cana rond pa inventa maldad na cada paso; nos no tin e sicopatanan cu ta pasa man pa un revolver y ta cuminza dispara pa loco contra hendenan inocente; Aruba ta un isla trankilo, yen di humanismo y consideracion pa e bienestar di otronan.

Pesey, na nomber di tur loke ta husto, ta tempo pa e imagen negativo cu voluntariamente of involuntariamente a ser crea di nos isla pa algun medio di comunicacion cu no tabata sa mes unda Aruba ta keda, ser coregi.

Ta pesey tambe cu algun di nos a acepta pa duna declaracionnan na un of otro canal di television Mericano, no pa busca fama o crea un imagen cu lo desaparece hunto cu e regreso di e medionan ey, sino pa purba contraresta e da¤o cu a ser causa pa e misterio aki.

No ta kedami nada otro di bisa sino cu mi ta spera cu Natalee ta bibo y cu e lo haya e caminda di regreso pa su cas, su famianan y su amigonan na Birmingham, ciudad cu mi conoce bon, y e Pueblo di Alabama cu, segun mi experiencia personal na e Estado ey, ta igual na esun di nos den e grandeza di su curazon y su sentido di compasion.

Al fin y al cabo mi a studia y a gradua na Mobile, Alabama, y por papia cu cierto autoridad di e cualidadnan humano di su Pueblo. No ban yega na conclusionnan ekiboca tocante esey djis pasobra un canal sin importancia ni alcance nacional, a hinca den su cabez pa haci un yamado pa un boycot cu no ta bay haya oido ni acogida den e resto di e poblacion Americano, y cu no ta ahusta su mes tampoco na e concepto Americano di "fair play.”

http://www.diarioaruba.com/dialuna/editorial/index.html
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Thanks Iquitos, but can you finish the translation. Especially that last paragraph, where the writer talks about being a graduate student in Mobile, Alabama. Papiemento is really rough.
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DivaToo
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« Reply #217 on: June 21, 2005, 08:06:48 PM »

Per Greta on O'Reilly: BHT & AVDS enbraced when meeting after Beth was yelling over the gate and Papa VDS let Greta & BHT in
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« Reply #218 on: June 21, 2005, 08:07:18 PM »

but let me play devil's advocate for a moment, the family wants to find Natalee and who care's about the legal ramifications

but if Natalee is in fact dead, and the Aruban police screw up the investigation so that the perpetrators get off, then everyone is going to be screaming blue murder again,  because then they will want justice for the death of their daughter......this is exactly what happened in Bermuda, when that 15 year old Canadian girl foolishly hopped on a motorcycle with two guys, she and her friend were stranded after a concert at 4:00 am, there were no taxis around, and rather than call the one girl's parents [they lived on the island, Canadian girl was visiting] they hopped on motorcycles with three guys, now the one girl, her ride was a nice guy and dropped her off at her house, the other two didn't drop off their passenger, she was raped and murdered and found on a beach in the St. Georges section of the island

Bermuda rushed to judgment, they gave this Jamaican illegal a plea bargain before the forensics came back, turned out he was the one who raped her, the other guy just held her down, maybe, the Bermudian accomplice got off, the Jamaican guy got a  light sentence and there were a number of appeals, the girl's parents were pushing for some kind of justice and were bitterly disappointed.......

now if they find out Natalee was alive and there was a window of opportunity which was missed, then everyone is going to be screaming blue murder at the Aruban authorities again
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KerinTX
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« Reply #219 on: June 21, 2005, 08:08:21 PM »

thanks Diva...I just wanted to put that part in about them going because I know it was a big discussion point the other night about them going unannounced.
Greta just said Mrs VDS said her son is being interrogated for up to 11 hours a day
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