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Author Topic: RBN # 16 - 6/21 thru 6/22  (Read 317700 times)
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RichinTx
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« Reply #320 on: June 21, 2005, 08:49:32 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
From all accounts, it seems JVDS hooked up regularly.  It didn't take him maliciously slipping something into girls' drinks for them to willingly have sex with him.  With the volume of international media exposure on this case, I have to believe, by now, that any American girl that JVDS drugged and raped would have come forward.  

What is the likelihood, however, of a girl reporting a rape if she knowingly, voluntarily took a drug like ecstasy while in his company?

80% of the world's ecstasy comes from the Netherlands and Belgium.  With daily flights from Amsterdam, the Aruban market is fully saturated with pure X, unlike what is sold in many cities in the US.

With NH's classmates on the trip remaining silent, and knowing that JVDS hung out at the HI for a good part of the week, and a large number of the kids pulled an all-nighter their last night in Aruba, it keeps open the possibility that a sizable number of kids were game to trying ecstasy.

Natalee, naive to the effects of both alcohol and ecstasy, at the encouragement of JVDS, may well have consciously decided to try X for the first time.  Even if she wasn't drinking to excess, the potential for overdosing increased exponentially.

Piecing the story together, it seem most plausible that JVDS got the X from DK, who got it from SGC.  NH overdosed on the beach w/ JVDS.  His guilt, and feeling the need to cover it up, likely stems not from him giving her the drug, but because they likely had sex; leaving him the primary suspect.  JVDS panicked, brought NH to his house.  PVDS, knowing the law, believing it was an accident, and not wanting his son's life to be ruined, helped facilitate NH's disappearance.

Remaining questions:

WHAT did NH drink at C&C's?
HOW were NH and JVDS dancing?
WHAT did NH eat that day before going to C&C's?
Was NH at the bar when her drinks were ordered, or was she on the dance floor, or in the bathroom, and then handed the drinks by JVDS or another friend?
Did NH go to C&C's with JVDS, or did they meet up there?
When did DK, SK and SGC go to C&C's?
What was the shoving match between JVDS and NH's classmates about?


Scott,
I would be willing to bet large sums of money that you have just described almost exactly what has happened.  (Now that I think about it, it makes a whole lot more sense than all the other theories I've read and heard and even proposed myself)  JVDS may have had absolutely no malicious intent whatsoever but that doesn't mean that he is willing to come clean now.  Excellent assessment and all pieces seem to fit like a glove.
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nikkibnurse
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« Reply #321 on: June 21, 2005, 08:49:38 PM »

Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "RB"
Actually, nikki, I'm not talking abut the chaperones.


Chill out, dude..nobody said you were..i was referring to the lady at the pool and people from PAST POSTS who ask about the whereabouts of chaperones..dont know who peed in your cornflakes, man, but dont go jumping on people  until you realize exactly why youre jumpin'..had NOTHING to do with you.....


My apologies...and for the record, I'm not a dude Smile


my apologies for assuming you were..just thought only a man would make such a quick judgement... <ducking>
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #322 on: June 21, 2005, 08:49:47 PM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "iquitos"


PROF:  YOU FORGOT HER USE OF THE INTERNET ON 7 JUNE ASLO FROM THE RADIO


Iquitos, SOMEONE used the AOL account.


right...anyone could log on and maybe a family member did while at the twiitys in the "war room" that must have vbeen immed established there.
ya think?
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peace to all
absolut
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« Reply #323 on: June 21, 2005, 08:49:57 PM »

Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "RB"


It's my opinion that we haven't heard everything that happened up to the time Natalee got in the car from the students who knew Natalee best, either.


Seems that the FBI has, and BHT has heard enough to satisfy her. Not sure what that means, precisely, but the friends and fellow students don't owe the public any explanation provided they've come forward with what they know to the authorities. What do you bet their stories haven't changed daily, either?


They don't owe us anything. I am just asking where Natalee was each of the preceding nights and what kind of hours they were all keeping. But your right not owed and I don't expect I ever know.
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Professor
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« Reply #324 on: June 21, 2005, 08:50:37 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "tuberide"
anyone read this in the arubaam newspaper archive from 6/7/05 and remember any more news regarding what it stated?


http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am07jun05.pdf
(top coulumn on page 1, right hand side with green background)

"The security tapes of the hotel indeed show the two guards, of the Allegro Resort, walking in front of the hotels..."

-anyone know if Mickey John and other detained guard or possibly other guards were working that night?

sorry if this is old news but just trying to start from the beginnning again...thnks


indeed both had alibis, in fact their employment contracts were over.


And if the alibis of these two checked out, then this report MUST be false. It seems we have a wide-spread and deliberate misinformation campaign going on here. We have DiarioAruba "car chase story," and the Panty Boy story, and the TOP95 report of Natalee Holloway in Nigeria, and now this AM Digital story that the two security guards alibis did NOT check out. Hmm.
 

PROF:  YOU FORGOT HER USE OF THE INTERNET ON 7 JUNE ASLO FROM THE RADIO


Dr. Iquitos, I forgot to mention your superior linguistic ablilities. I have a hard enough time with Spanish. I have an even harder time with Dutch. But Papiemento is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond me.
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #325 on: June 21, 2005, 08:50:44 PM »

Quote from: "RB"
Nope, LilOrphan, I don't know.  I do know that I can count on 1 hand and a coupe fingers the number of written and media (interview) accounts vouching for Natalee's integrity.  I see very little other than generalizations about the events of the night that really make sense.


It stands to reason that all information is being withheld, in both countries. The difference probably being that BHT has all the info from the students given to the FBI, but less from Aruba LE.   What do you feel doesn't make sense?  From the perspective of partying kids, I'm still young enough to remember being that age and their accounts seemed to make sense to me. Also, have you seen the web acct by a mom of one of the students?
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gaijin
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« Reply #326 on: June 21, 2005, 08:50:58 PM »

Quote from: "martin connahey"
This just in: All Comedy Radio in Arizona- 1480 AM - had a "special" today on the Aruba case. They reported that Gary Condit has NOT yet been questioned, but that as soon as Ted Kennedy sobers up, they'll ask him about nh (and several other missing girls).

Just emailed the authorities in Aruba with my suggestion that detainees be transferred to Gitmo. [That'll make 'em talk].

I've seen all sorts of stories here; insider chat, bracelet-sale promos, teary-eyed ribbon people cyber-hugging each other, etc, especially during slow news cycles. Will continue to call 'em like I see 'em, tho ( entitled to my opinion-- and, yeah, it's too bad I have to keep repeating that ).

And in resp to one post; No, we are NOT all here for the same reason. Some for news reporting, some to ask questions, ... as many reasons as posters perhaps. That's real diversity, my friend.  ( As opposed to fake PC diversity which abhors true difference of opinion ). Many types of people here, contradictory opinions, numerous ways of talking/writing/thinking, varied news sources, you-name-it.

More breaking news: There's a girl over at The Onion site who is selling Natalee Holloway STATUES for a hundred-buck a pop. Not sure if it's serious or not, but my dashboard could sure use some sprucing up!

May G-d bless the beasts and the children.

-MC
 

I'm sorry, but I'm going to make this as intellectual, eloquent, condesending and revealing as the crap that Im been forced to scroll over from you since the few days that you've been on here...
find another site...

you're posts are meaningless...

I'm sorry, but HERE...we care about HER...

I dont hear that in you...

you...are a jackass..


sure it's more than one man's opinion...
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CatDr
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« Reply #327 on: June 21, 2005, 08:51:17 PM »

Like so many of you, my first thought is that she is still alive.  I hold out hope with her Mom and her family and friends.  If she is not, heaven forbid, than I pray that her Mom will still be able to take her home.

I can hardly wait for the TX EquuSearch team to arrive in Aruba (I think they are beginning tomorrow) and get to work.  It seems very likely that Natalee is in the water somewhere and from what I read earlier the sonar equip has been very successful at finding bodies in the water.
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May God Bless Natalee and her Family in this dark hour...
cancon
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« Reply #328 on: June 21, 2005, 08:51:30 PM »

actually nikki I agree with you on the chaperones in that this kind of thing can happen any weekend at home when you are talking about teenagers

how many raves or bush parties or after hours parties do these kids go to,  strangers are always crashing these parties, because of the internet now the word really spreads, there were kids who called the cops on their uninvited party guests, the crashers did $100,000 damage to their house, but I digress.....

how many kids have died on their first E trip because they didn't know to keep hydrated, imagine taking E in hot hot hot Aruba, oh I forgot this kids are from Alabama so they are used to hot hot hot, I'm Canadian and I found Aruba hot in January.......

most girls are date raped by guys they go to school with and most say nothing
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RB
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« Reply #329 on: June 21, 2005, 08:51:50 PM »

Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "RB"
Actually, nikki, I'm not talking abut the chaperones.


Chill out, dude..nobody said you were..i was referring to the lady at the pool and people from PAST POSTS who ask about the whereabouts of chaperones..dont know who peed in your cornflakes, man, but dont go jumping on people  until you realize exactly why youre jumpin'..had NOTHING to do with you.....


My apologies...and for the record, I'm not a dude Smile


my apologies for assuming you were..just thought only a man would make such a quick judgement... <ducking>


I didn't see what you said about the pool - I must have missed it.  I'll go back and look, but understand all I saw was what LilOrphan and I had been posting and thought it had been misconstrued.  (It happens here, you know?) Only a woman would ask a guy who peed in his cornflakes though Wink
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absolut
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« Reply #330 on: June 21, 2005, 08:53:30 PM »

Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "RB"
Actually, nikki, I'm not talking abut the chaperones.


Chill out, dude..nobody said you were..i was referring to the lady at the pool and people from PAST POSTS who ask about the whereabouts of chaperones..dont know who peed in your cornflakes, man, but dont go jumping on people  until you realize exactly why youre jumpin'..had NOTHING to do with you.....


My apologies...and for the record, I'm not a dude Smile


my apologies for assuming you were..just thought only a man would make such a quick judgement... <ducking>


I didn't see what you said about the pool - I must have missed it.  I'll go back and look, but understand all I saw was what LilOrphan and I had been posting and thought it had been misconstrued.  (It happens here, you know?) Only a woman would ask a guy who peed in his cornflakes though Wink


Odd Saddam doesn't like Fruit Loops who would've thought.
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asdf
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« Reply #331 on: June 21, 2005, 08:53:36 PM »

Quote from: "RichinTx"
Quote from: "Scott"
From all accounts, it seems JVDS hooked up regularly.  It didn't take him maliciously slipping something into girls' drinks for them to willingly have sex with him.  With the volume of international media exposure on this case, I have to believe, by now, that any American girl that JVDS drugged and raped would have come forward.  

What is the likelihood, however, of a girl reporting a rape if she knowingly, voluntarily took a drug like ecstasy while in his company?

80% of the world's ecstasy comes from the Netherlands and Belgium.  With daily flights from Amsterdam, the Aruban market is fully saturated with pure X, unlike what is sold in many cities in the US.

With NH's classmates on the trip remaining silent, and knowing that JVDS hung out at the HI for a good part of the week, and a large number of the kids pulled an all-nighter their last night in Aruba, it keeps open the possibility that a sizable number of kids were game to trying ecstasy.

Natalee, naive to the effects of both alcohol and ecstasy, at the encouragement of JVDS, may well have consciously decided to try X for the first time.  Even if she wasn't drinking to excess, the potential for overdosing increased exponentially.

Piecing the story together, it seem most plausible that JVDS got the X from DK, who got it from SGC.  NH overdosed on the beach w/ JVDS.  His guilt, and feeling the need to cover it up, likely stems not from him giving her the drug, but because they likely had sex; leaving him the primary suspect.  JVDS panicked, brought NH to his house.  PVDS, knowing the law, believing it was an accident, and not wanting his son's life to be ruined, helped facilitate NH's disappearance.

Remaining questions:

WHAT did NH drink at C&C's?
HOW were NH and JVDS dancing?
WHAT did NH eat that day before going to C&C's?
Was NH at the bar when her drinks were ordered, or was she on the dance floor, or in the bathroom, and then handed the drinks by JVDS or another friend?
Did NH go to C&C's with JVDS, or did they meet up there?
When did DK, SK and SGC go to C&C's?
What was the shoving match between JVDS and NH's classmates about?


Scott,
I would be willing to bet large sums of money that you have just described almost exactly what has happened.  (Now that I think about it, it makes a whole lot more sense than all the other theories I've read and heard and even proposed myself)  JVDS may have had absolutely no malicious intent whatsoever but that doesn't mean that he is willing to come clean now.  Excellent assessment and all pieces seem to fit like a glove.


Agreed.  After wading through post after post after post after post, what Scott said is very right on track and makes more sense than anything I've read.
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HannieC
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« Reply #332 on: June 21, 2005, 08:53:51 PM »

lee wrote:

Quote
ah...no....

we can speculate as much as we want...

and don't forget that in Aruba, a person is GUILTY until proved innocent, so as far as I 'm concerned, its the 3 AMigos who need to be prove their innocence...

don't know anything?.....wrong...we know an 18 yro girl is not home in Alabama where she should be...

we know three guys were seen with her that last night...

we know three guys that all lied initially....and got two innocent guys arrested because of that lie....

I am trying to be fair and open, but please don't say "we know nothing" or "we can't speculate" because WE CAN.....



Ofcourse you can speculate, b/c that`s it just speculations! Just as we all do here.
And in Aruba it isn`t it so that you are GUILTY until proven INNOCENT I don`t know how you came up with that idea?
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If you create a theory, you fall in the trap of trying to fit the facts to your theory...
inspector_detector
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« Reply #333 on: June 21, 2005, 08:54:22 PM »

Quote from: "RichinTx"
Quote from: "Scott"
From all accounts, it seems JVDS hooked up regularly.  It didn't take him maliciously slipping something into girls' drinks for them to willingly have sex with him.  With the volume of international media exposure on this case, I have to believe, by now, that any American girl that JVDS drugged and raped would have come forward.  

What is the likelihood, however, of a girl reporting a rape if she knowingly, voluntarily took a drug like ecstasy while in his company?

80% of the world's ecstasy comes from the Netherlands and Belgium.  With daily flights from Amsterdam, the Aruban market is fully saturated with pure X, unlike what is sold in many cities in the US.

With NH's classmates on the trip remaining silent, and knowing that JVDS hung out at the HI for a good part of the week, and a large number of the kids pulled an all-nighter their last night in Aruba, it keeps open the possibility that a sizable number of kids were game to trying ecstasy.

Natalee, naive to the effects of both alcohol and ecstasy, at the encouragement of JVDS, may well have consciously decided to try X for the first time.  Even if she wasn't drinking to excess, the potential for overdosing increased exponentially.

Piecing the story together, it seem most plausible that JVDS got the X from DK, who got it from SGC.  NH overdosed on the beach w/ JVDS.  His guilt, and feeling the need to cover it up, likely stems not from him giving her the drug, but because they likely had sex; leaving him the primary suspect.  JVDS panicked, brought NH to his house.  PVDS, knowing the law, believing it was an accident, and not wanting his son's life to be ruined, helped facilitate NH's disappearance.

Remaining questions:

WHAT did NH drink at C&C's?
HOW were NH and JVDS dancing?
WHAT did NH eat that day before going to C&C's?
Was NH at the bar when her drinks were ordered, or was she on the dance floor, or in the bathroom, and then handed the drinks by JVDS or another friend?
Did NH go to C&C's with JVDS, or did they meet up there?
When did DK, SK and SGC go to C&C's?
What was the shoving match between JVDS and NH's classmates about?


Scott,
I would be willing to bet large sums of money that you have just described almost exactly what has happened.  (Now that I think about it, it makes a whole lot more sense than all the other theories I've read and heard and even proposed myself)  JVDS may have had absolutely no malicious intent whatsoever but that doesn't mean that he is willing to come clean now.  Excellent assessment and all pieces seem to fit like a glove.


I'll bet it's probably close to that but I would add - Croes is Deepaks connection. Deepak may have slipped the drugs into Natalee's drink without Joran's knowledge. I heard it was rufies not xtc. Shocked
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nikkibnurse
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« Reply #334 on: June 21, 2005, 08:55:02 PM »

Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "RB"
Actually, nikki, I'm not talking abut the chaperones.


Chill out, dude..nobody said you were..i was referring to the lady at the pool and people from PAST POSTS who ask about the whereabouts of chaperones..dont know who peed in your cornflakes, man, but dont go jumping on people  until you realize exactly why youre jumpin'..had NOTHING to do with you.....


My apologies...and for the record, I'm not a dude Smile


my apologies for assuming you were..just thought only a man would make such a quick judgement... <ducking>


I didn't see what you said about the pool - I must have missed it.  I'll go back and look, but understand all I saw was what LilOrphan and I had been posting and thought it had been misconstrued.  (It happens here, you know?) Only a woman would ask a guy who peed in his cornflakes though Wink



Ok, feel free to go back and read...no one was accusing you of anything...everything is ok...truce... Smile
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Professor
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« Reply #335 on: June 21, 2005, 08:55:43 PM »

Quote from: "Y'alls Psychic Detective"
Quote from: "Professor"


Here's a wild theory. What if Geraldo was right?


Without going into the rest of your post, I think these first two sentences show the plausibility!  Very Happy

But seriously, we know Geraldo said a bunch of stuff that was crap.  He said Joran drove the fanciest car on the island for one.  Of course, Jaron wasn't even old enough to drive, didn't have a car, and his parents' cars weren't fancy (a jeep and a sedan, I believe).


How do you know that Joran DIDN'T drive the fanciest car on the island?
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #336 on: June 21, 2005, 08:55:57 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote

They don't owe us anything. I am just asking where Natalee was each of the preceding nights and what kind of hours they were all keeping. But your right not owed and I don't expect I ever know.


The post wasn't in response to your comments, absolut - those were good specific questions and I bet you'll get answered eventually.  It just seems unfair to compare the deafening silence and/or changing rumors coming from suspects to the dearth of statements made by friends who have been allegedly told not to come forward.
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CancunMole
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« Reply #337 on: June 21, 2005, 08:56:16 PM »

Quote from: "RB"
well, Bob......they ARE to blame.....

accidental or incidental or unintended......that point is moot.....

they lied from the gitgo and have changed their stories....

did you forget that there is one lonely crushed mother waiting for answers and these nice "Boys" can't even give her that.....


It's my opinion that we haven't heard everything that happened up to the time Natalee got in the car from the students who knew Natalee best, either.


I agree. Until all the details are divulged, student trip accounts as well as the 4's accounts will the complete truth be known.
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lee
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« Reply #338 on: June 21, 2005, 08:56:29 PM »

"It's my opinion that we haven't heard everything that happened up to the time Natalee got in the car from the students who knew Natalee best, either."

RB....I agree with you....I may be the only one here that thinks the students should have been quizzed extensively before they even unpacked their bags.....

and ironically, we really know very little about our own American contingent that went there...who the "chaperones" were , who the students were, etc...

we do have at least two eyewitnesses though who were NOT students or chaperones that saw Natalee that night , get up and leave, not with JOran and his imbeciles, but with them in the vicinity....this from a tourist from Michigan.....
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Ting
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« Reply #339 on: June 21, 2005, 08:56:31 PM »

Quote
BHT didn't want the students to be interviewed with the fear it would somehow hamper the investigation. I'll bet they have changed


The other kids who were there that were not expecting this. It was the last night of the big trip. It is not likely that they were carefully observing every single thing, and recording all the details and sequence and timelines. They were at a party bar, partying.

Then all of a sudden people want them to recollect every second that they saw one classmate, who was she with, there in the dark, where did she go from there, what time was it, who else saw her, then what, and over and over again.

And only a handful of them actually saw Natalee in the company of Joran, and the one young lady who was on last night said she knew it was Joran because he was tall and had dark hair. And she saw this, while she was in the company of another friend. Singular.  And there was a young man who said he saw Natalee in the bar dancing with Carlos and Charlie's. These are the ones who, as far as we know, saw the most relevant things, and those things that they did see were not alarming or frightening.

In fact, I have not heard any student who actually saw Natalee get into the car with the 3 boys, though there was one report of seeing her *in* a car, but whether that person could also identify all the 3 in that same car, who knows?

It was the final night big bash. They had no reason to focus on Natalee's every move, nor is it likely that Natalee was the only one who spent part of the last night dancing and spending time with another young person who had caught their eye and who was not part of their school group.

So it is not like all 130 of them will have a whole lot to say, to anybody, except they hope Natalee is reunited with her family soon.
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