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Author Topic: RBN # 16 - 6/21 thru 6/22  (Read 317823 times)
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chelsblu
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« Reply #760 on: June 21, 2005, 10:57:23 PM »

Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
I don't know...I'm just not buying the e-mail account...just before broadcast of Greta's show and dis-crediting NH...can you say dis-information??? It's an old trick...known to many...

I still would like to see full internet mail headers showing IP and e-mail addresses and domains. Without that data it's ONLY HEARSAY!!!


Actually I think I remember seeing excerpts of this from WW before today so I don't think it just came out right before broadcast.
DOn't remember the day but you could pull up all posts from memberlist.
It only now looks more like the real thing after Greta's show than before because certain things are now corroborated by NH friends.
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Atlmetroguy
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« Reply #761 on: June 21, 2005, 10:57:41 PM »

Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
I don't know...I'm just not buying the e-mail account...just before broadcast of Greta's show and dis-crediting NH...can you say dis-information??? It's an old trick...known to many...

I still would like to see full internet mail headers showing IP and e-mail addresses and domains. Without that data it's ONLY HEARSAY!!!


And right now, it's better hearsay than what we've seen.  All this up to this point has been speculation, even by the media somewhat because of Dutch law restricting information. This at least is a look at the possibilities of the other side.


RB agreed....but keep in mind, this is the web..nobody can truly hide!! This is digital technology and EVERYTHING is logged by IP address somewhere...plus other means.

Apologies to all but I'm in the technology industry, and no mail addys, no IP addreses and no domains is the equivilent of writing something up on wordpad and posting by copy and paste same as I'm typing this in a window.

We need verifiable facts!!!
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Huh?? You mean I gotta board now??
Rubby
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« Reply #762 on: June 21, 2005, 10:57:43 PM »

maybe the security guards were lying when they said the guy apologized.

The mother did say Joran left her along at the beach.

Fact of the matter she let with Joran and he should have escorted to her room especially if she was so called drunk!
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #763 on: June 21, 2005, 10:58:53 PM »

Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
Quote
Red - Wrote---"Where was the Greta question of why were not you worried when she did not come home that night? These were her roomates and best friends, right?"


I agree Totally. this does NOT add up. So her friends see her at the closing of the Bar with Joran, and they they say THEY WOULD NEVER let her Leave alone wiith him. But why did they?

 And More IMPORTANTLY wjhy did they Not do anything when she didnt come home that night? That does NOT add up. lots of explaining to do from someone. We are most likely Not geting the True Story here. Anyone would Have to admit that there are way too many inconsistancies in these accounts of what happened that night.

GuyWdog


I thought they both said that they didn't see her at the closing of the bar. One said she wasn't there and the other said she left an hour earlier.


Yes. Also, timelines with friends stories are also conflicting with other friends.

Since the day BH landed and found out the information, it has been 1:30, two groups of people, people seeing her with Joran, BH even admitting she was with him. *sigh* I am not flaming etc but I am sorry over time everyone's story is changing. Almost manicured ::ducks for cover:: I am sorry but there's something seriously more wrong now.
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GuyWdog
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« Reply #764 on: June 21, 2005, 11:00:10 PM »

Quote
How do you know they didn't ask the question? They would probably just assume she was with one of the other friends. Given that a lot of them were probably drinking and partying I really doubt they were that concerned.

Did you happen to catch the cnn special where they showed the group from boston going to carlos and charlies? As soon as they left the bar they had lost all sign of their friends and mada no attempt to find them.


 I could agree with you if this was the FIRST night of their trip to Carlos and Charlies, but this was the kids last night on the Island, surely these kids experienced the Chaos from the bar's closing many times before.

guyWdog
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #765 on: June 21, 2005, 11:00:16 PM »

Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
I don't know...I'm just not buying the e-mail account...just before broadcast of Greta's show and dis-crediting NH...can you say dis-information??? It's an old trick...known to many...

I still would like to see full internet mail headers showing IP and e-mail addresses and domains. Without that data it's ONLY HEARSAY!!!


Actually I think I remember seeing excerpts of this from WW before today so I don't think it just came out right before broadcast.
DOn't remember the day but you could pull up all posts from memberlist.
It only now looks more like the real thing after Greta's show than before because certain things are now corroborated by NH friends.


I can second that I have seen this email last week.
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DAG
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« Reply #766 on: June 21, 2005, 11:00:39 PM »

Quote from: "mitzid66"
People in hotels do not move room to room.  Girls are pretty particvulat about thier stuff.    Maybe in a dorm, but not a hotel.


Just to add a different view.........I took 15 highschool girls to the beach that same week and believe me, their clothes were everywhere.  Everybody wears everbodies clothes.  I brought back sacks of clothes for them to claim.  They did not seem that particular to me.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #767 on: June 21, 2005, 11:00:50 PM »

Quote from: "wantsanswers"
Quote from: "medleyrelay"
The one thing I find interesting about wonderwoman's/Depack email is this - until tonite on Greta - we did not know that Joran snuk out, and we also heard from Natalee's friend tonite that Nat introduced herself - this email does seem to support those two facts - and this email appeared before Greta's show - that to me is rather interesting!


Did he write this in jail??? I should think not??? Otherwise how could he mention the confession that was made in jail, thought she was found???etc


What?? please explain your point here...so I may clarify
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Itawamba
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« Reply #768 on: June 21, 2005, 11:00:56 PM »

Well, the posting of the email started out with a lie, so everything I read past that was just "whatever".

"I just got this email" "I've had it a couple of days"

Which is it?
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Red
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« Reply #769 on: June 21, 2005, 11:01:40 PM »

I am sorry I messed up the link before to the Greta/Beth/VDS's meeting from Fox courtesy of teh Political Teen,

http://thepoliticalteen.net/2005/06/21/1758/
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Shellbell
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« Reply #770 on: June 21, 2005, 11:01:46 PM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
Quote
Red - Wrote---"Where was the Greta question of why were not you worried when she did not come home that night? These were her roomates and best friends, right?"


I agree Totally. this does NOT add up. So her friends see her at the closing of the Bar with Joran, and they they say THEY WOULD NEVER let her Leave alone wiith him. But why did they?

 And More IMPORTANTLY wjhy did they Not do anything when she didnt come home that night? That does NOT add up. lots of explaining to do from someone. We are most likely Not geting the True Story here. Anyone would Have to admit that there are way too many inconsistancies in these accounts of what happened that night.

They looked like the party girls (I know)  they were probably drunk.  When I was on my senior cruise, someone got raped, we were out by the pool and were to drunk to even know until we were questioned.  Then we still didnt know anything, we couldnt remember.  On your senior trip your not suppose to remember.  Or mine anyway.

GuyWdog


I thought they both said that they didn't see her at the closing of the bar. One said she wasn't there and the other said she left an hour earlier.


Yes. Also, timelines with friends stories are not also conflicting with other friends.

Since the day BH landed and found out the information, it has been 1:30, two groups of people, people seeing her with Joran, BH even admitting she was with him. *sigh* I am not flaming etc but I am sorry over time everyone's story is changing. Almost manicured ::ducks for cover:: I am sorry but there's something seriously more wrong now.
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RB
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« Reply #771 on: June 21, 2005, 11:02:01 PM »

Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
I don't know...I'm just not buying the e-mail account...just before broadcast of Greta's show and dis-crediting NH...can you say dis-information??? It's an old trick...known to many...

I still would like to see full internet mail headers showing IP and e-mail addresses and domains. Without that data it's ONLY HEARSAY!!!


And right now, it's better hearsay than what we've seen.  All this up to this point has been speculation, even by the media somewhat because of Dutch law restricting information. This at least is a look at the possibilities of the other side.


RB agreed....but keep in mind, this is the web..nobody can truly hide!! This is digital technology and EVERYTHING is logged by IP address somewhere...plus other means.

Apologies to all but I'm in the technology industry, and no mail addys, no IP addreses and no domains is the equivilent of writing something up on wordpad and posting by copy and paste same as I'm typing this in a window.

We need verifiable facts!!!


Both absolut and I work for one of the more esteemed technology institutions in the US, as Red and Tom can tell you.  Even if you had the headers from this forwarded email, you would not be able to trace the IP's all the way back to its original source, unless you forensically dissected each hard drive along the way, and there's no guarentee you'd get what you needed.  Therefore, your argument is a stalemate:  what she's pasted is what it is. Don't believe it fine, but please don't mention  "facts" when there is really only the fact that Natalee is missing.
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Ting
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« Reply #772 on: June 21, 2005, 11:02:03 PM »

Quote
was dropped off at HI, she would be the victim of a different crime with other suspects


Agreed. But there has not been, to my knowledge any indication that anyone else who was on the trip can corroborate that she was dropped off at the HI or anywhere else. So while the recollections of the other kids may have a strong human interest appeal, I don't see them as relevant to what happened to her after they saw her last.
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coco
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« Reply #773 on: June 21, 2005, 11:02:32 PM »

DT - that CNN film of the Boston group was quite something wasn't it? Did you see the second night when the one girls' parents watched it?

I was recently in Jamaica and saw a bit of the spring break scene there and it was the same - hordes of amazingly drunk kids partying all over the place. I'm sure they were all "good kids" too but the whole idea is to go have a wild time. It really scared me to see the kids on the booze cruises arriving across the water from my hotel - very very drunk and going cliff diving!  

My guess is that something rather mundane but very sad happened in all this and that there are no evil villains or white slavers or drug lords, just those dreadful mistakes that sometimes happen.
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Shellbell
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« Reply #774 on: June 21, 2005, 11:02:38 PM »

They looked like the party girls (I know) they were probably drunk. When I was on my senior cruise, someone got raped, we were out by the pool and were to drunk to even know until we were questioned. Then we still didnt know anything, we couldnt remember. On your senior trip your not suppose to remember. Or mine anyway
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #775 on: June 21, 2005, 11:02:41 PM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "arubagirl"
IF the letter is Deepak's, why the hell did their stories change?

Anyway guys, have to go to sleep.

Good night.


Do we actually know their stories changed from a FACTUAL source?


Nope but if they did PRESSURE

So all this time when we have been speculating that the pressure had not gotten to them (specifically Joran), to get a confession, it appears it DID! But the pressure (remember Mom VDS said Joran has been questioned for up to 11 hours per day) has not gotten a confession, it has caused a change of stories. Which, based on the ages of the kids, would be very believeable.
"Change the story to what you think the police WANT you to say, and they will let you go home!"



maybe...
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DT
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« Reply #776 on: June 21, 2005, 11:02:44 PM »

Quote from: "GuyWdog"
Quote
How do you know they didn't ask the question? They would probably just assume she was with one of the other friends. Given that a lot of them were probably drinking and partying I really doubt they were that concerned.

Did you happen to catch the cnn special where they showed the group from boston going to carlos and charlies? As soon as they left the bar they had lost all sign of their friends and mada no attempt to find them.


 I could agree with you if this was the FIRST night of their trip to Carlos and Charlies, but this was the kids last night on the Island, surely these kids experienced the Chaos from the bar's closing many times before.

guyWdog


I don't know I think that is stretching it, but I guess we'll just disagree.
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chelsblu
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« Reply #777 on: June 21, 2005, 11:02:54 PM »

Quote from: "wantsanswers"
Quote from: "medleyrelay"
The one thing I find interesting about wonderwoman's/Depack email is this - until tonite on Greta - we did not know that Joran snuk out, and we also heard from Natalee's friend tonite that Nat introduced herself - this email does seem to support those two facts - and this email appeared before Greta's show - that to me is rather interesting!


Did he write this in jail??? I should think not??? Otherwise how could he mention the confession that was made in jail, thought she was found???etc


He's not saying he made a confession in jail . He's talking about the rumors that are going around. "We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead , she was seen with 2 guys , her hair is cut and is red now ,she was in a crackhouse etc, we were arrested and , my car is by the police we confessed to murder and rape, she went in a restaurant to buy food but none of those were true"
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Whitney
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« Reply #778 on: June 21, 2005, 11:03:50 PM »

Quote from: "littletxlady"
ELIO  NICOLAAS!!!! He's on the ball!


Sorry...it's this guy you're talking about...forgot to send you the URL:  http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/article_13007.shtml

Amazing...so it's really the dynamic between Beth and Natalee?
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Kshe78
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« Reply #779 on: June 21, 2005, 11:03:50 PM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "arubagirl"
IF the letter is Deepak's, why the hell did their stories change?

Anyway guys, have to go to sleep.

Good night.

.

Where do we actually KNOW that their stories EVER CHANGED?

They could have let the Guards go to watch them, as they did the Boys'


A few points/questions from the email:

1.  He mentioned that when VDS and NH were in the backseat that he noticed that they were kissing, etc.  and he specifically said "nothing against Natalees will." This seems like an odd thing to mention, why would one assume it was against her will, since by his account she had decided to go with them.

2.  "when i arrived at the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a min only trafficlights)"   I'm confused here.  It sounds as if he is saying that they just sat in the car at the lighthouse, but it also sounds as if they left, then came back to get them.

3.  ."(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby)"  Interesting statement.  We know that this is not true now, but if they (the boys) thought that, it would explain why they thought it best to say they returned her there, thinking that there was no way to actually verify the story.

He's just so detailed in his account that it leads me to believe that this was, in fact, a made up story.  Much information since then has made it seem like this was the original story but that it's changed.  However, if he wasn't hiding something, WHY would they have this great, detailed story.
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