RBN # 16 - 6/21 thru 6/22

[iquitos]

I still think maybe all of the group should have been interrogated as well since we have reports of scuffles possibly over Natalee, how do we know one of the Mountainbrook boys wasn't involved somehow

again put this into perspective, if this had happened in Alabama you know each of those kids would have been intensely questioned

do we know if this was done by the FBI or Alabama law enforcement

still I think if I were the Aruban police, I would have made that group stay until I had a chance to interview everyone

WHY DO YOU THINK THE BEAT IT OUT OF DODGE EN MASSE?  THESE ARE NOT DUMB PEOPLE

[CatDr]

In respone to the ketamine conversation.  It is typically used in the veterinary clinic in a liquid form as a pre-surgical anesthetic.  There is a problem with theft of this "vit K" from veterinary clinics.  I don't think that addicts smoke it though, I think they are using the same liquid version that vets do and injecting it.

[absolut]

From all accounts, it seems JVDS hooked up regularly.  It didn't take him maliciously slipping something into girls' drinks for them to willingly have sex with him.  With the volume of international media exposure on this case, I have to believe, by now, that any American girl that JVDS drugged and raped would have come forward.  

What is the likelihood, however, of a girl reporting a rape if she knowingly, voluntarily took a drug like ecstasy while in his company?

80% of the world's ecstasy comes from the Netherlands and Belgium.  With daily flights from Amsterdam, the Aruban market is fully saturated with pure X, unlike what is sold in many cities in the US.

With NH's classmates on the trip remaining silent, and knowing that JVDS hung out at the HI for a good part of the week, and a large number of the kids pulled an all-nighter their last night in Aruba, it keeps open the possibility that a sizable number of kids were game to trying ecstasy.

Natalee, naive to the effects of both alcohol and ecstasy, at the encouragement of JVDS, may well have consciously decided to try X for the first time.  Even if she wasn't drinking to excess, the potential for overdosing increased exponentially.

Piecing the story together, it seem most plausible that JVDS got the X from DK, who got it from SGC.  NH overdosed on the beach w/ JVDS.  His guilt, and feeling the need to cover it up, likely stems not from him giving her the drug, but because they likely had sex; leaving him the primary suspect.  JVDS panicked, brought NH to his house.  PVDS, knowing the law, believing it was an accident, and not wanting his son's life to be ruined, helped facilitate NH's disappearance.

Remaining questions:

WHAT did NH drink at C&C's?
HOW were NH and JVDS dancing?
WHAT did NH eat that day before going to C&C's?
Was NH at the bar when her drinks were ordered, or was she on the dance floor, or in the bathroom, and then handed the drinks by JVDS or another friend?
Did NH go to C&C's with JVDS, or did they meet up there?
When did DK, SK and SGC go to C&C's?
What was the shoving match between JVDS and NH's classmates about?

Scott,
I would be willing to bet large sums of money that you have just described almost exactly what has happened.  (Now that I think about it, it makes a whole lot more sense than all the other theories I've read and heard and even proposed myself)  JVDS may have had absolutely no malicious intent whatsoever but that doesn't mean that he is willing to come clean now.  Excellent assessment and all pieces seem to fit like a glove.

I'll bet it's probably close to that but I would add - Croes is Deepaks connection. Deepak may have slipped the drugs into Natalee's drink without Joran's knowledge. I heard it was rufies not xtc.

May not have been any slipping. CNC's was really "jumpin" that night and most of the week is my guess. X is prolly like getting a piece of gum in that place.

[cancon]

good theory Scott except if Papa Van Der Sloot, knowing it was an accident, which could be proven by Natalee's dead body, ie if she had OD on X, would be jeopardizing HIS whole career by participating in a cover up, if it was truly an accident, calling the cops and letting there be an autopsy on Natalee would be the best thing to do for everyone, they would be rapped on the knuckles for the X would they not, this is a Dutch colony drug no big whoop......

if there was sex and it was consensual, they can usually tell and if it wasn't consensual they can usually tell

so I think Papa wasn't hiding any accident, he was hiding something else or he knows he is counselling this son in a way to beat the murder rap, which explains why they won't let him talk to the kid.......

[nikkibnurse]

actually nikki I agree with you on the chaperones in that this kind of thing can happen any weekend at home when you are talking about teenagers

how many raves or bush parties or after hours parties do these kids go to,  strangers are always crashing these parties, because of the internet now the word really spreads, there were kids who called the cops on their uninvited party guests, the crashers did $100,000 damage to their house, but I digress.....

how many kids have died on their first E trip because they didn't know to keep hydrated, imagine taking E in hot hot hot Aruba, oh I forgot this kids are from Alabama so they are used to hot hot hot, I'm Canadian and I found Aruba hot in January.......

most girls are date raped by guys they go to school with and most say nothing

I totally agree..I mean , I am ..ahem...i'll say it...30 something...32 to be exact, and i am a grown, very intelligent mother of two..i can chaperone myself, ya know? And I was given a date rape drug...wasnt raped..that i know of, thank GOD..but i was robbed...and woke up in a cab in my front yard..and this happened in lil ole south carolina in a sports bar..on a monday night..surrounded by friends...it can happen to anyone anywhere.....

[chloe2]

JVDS panicked, brought NH to his house.  PVDS, knowing the law, believing it was an accident, and not wanting his son's life to be ruined, helped facilitate NH's disappearance.

Scott,
I would be willing to bet large sums of money that you have just described almost exactly what has happened.  (Now that I think about it, it makes a whole lot more sense than all the other theories I've read and heard and even proposed myself)  JVDS may have had absolutely no malicious intent whatsoever but that doesn't mean that he is willing to come clean now.  Excellent assessment and all pieces seem to fit like a glove.

Agreed.  After wading through post after post after post after post, what Scott said is very right on track and makes more sense than anything I've read.

I can't really buy this one. His dad, prepping to be a judge, 'believing it to be an accident' helped facilitate NH's disappearance?! You make these people sound like seasoned criminals. I'm not ready to take that step based on the information we have, which in reality is very little.

[Whitney]

Whitney wrote:

That certainly is plausible.

It also places SGCroes in the proximity of NH...w/ or w/o Joran VDS.

Maybe the brothers and Steve Croes were also at the beach, when joran leaves. w/ or w/o the brothers.

Maybe that`s why( if it`s true) was there the call to Steve Croes that morning at 6.30 to ask if natalee was brought to the hotel safe.

HannieC at this point, wouldn't that be a pip? (as in irony)  "if it fits, you must acquit"

[friend of monkeys]

its starting to bother me how rehearsed micky johns tv interview seemed---the way he was going over what he "heard" while in his cell near one of the Kalpoes. looked like he was reading a teleprompter in his mind or something. i would like to see all details known regarding their employment/possibly new guards that replaced them at the Allegro resort/ and also their alibis


anybody??

There were guards for the Soul Beach Festival staying at the HI and they wore black uniforms.

i'm not looking for the poster but yes that is what i heard-unoficially....

Bill Reillys over thank god!

[CatDr]

I don't know the screename of this posting, but I think whoever said that she was drugged at the bar, raped, overdosed, and disposed of with help from SC is exactly right.  

Also, regarding the response of those calling for a ban on Aruba.  I think anywhere you are is dangerous, but I would have to think twice before going there since it does not appear as if the Aruban police and government are doing everything they can/should be doing.

[heavyheart]

Lots of us from TX.

[lee]

cancun, RB.....Karla is more than wacked.....she is evil....

evil doesn't have to come in the form of a big hairy monster...

it can be insidious......like Karla....and IMO, like what the mother who gave birth to those two children of MJ....then let him have full custody.....

evil IMO....just evil....

[WonderWoman]

Remaining questions:


HOW were NH and JVDS dancing?
Did NH go to C&C's with JVDS, or did they meet up there?
When did DK, SK and SGC go to C&C's?

The story starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino ). so they took a drink and started talking etc. about school, the vacation etc.etc.afterwards my friend had to go and she said that ''today is my last day i will be in carlos n' charlies will you be there'' and my friend said well i have school tomorrow i don't think so . well she kept asking him and he said yes i'll be there.So that was in the casino i was not present , i was at work so my friend called me and said hey i met some girls in the casino and her friends and they want us to meet them in carlos tonight do you have to work tomorrow morning i said no , so he said pick me up later then i said ok. so i got off my shift at 10 pm and went home took a bath had to fix something and then me and my younger brother went to pick up my friend was around 12.10 am so i came to his home and was talked for like 15 min and then left to go to carlos (we all went out without our parents knew) so we arrived like 12.30 am in carlos (carlos is closing 1 pm ) and headed straight for the bar and bought 3 drinks my friend paid for them, so besides the bar there is a stage and people were dancing and there was natalee dancing too (thats the first time i saw her )and she was calling my friend to get on the stage and dance with her  my friend laughed and refused so after the song was finished she came up to my friend and asked why he won't dance with her , i only heared that part because i was talking to someone else so i don't know what he responded(by then natalee seemed VERY drunk)so as i said i was talking to someone when i turned i had lost my brother , natalee and my friend. well they were announced that they were closing soon so i thought well maybe they' re waiting for me by the car its better i go there so i went to my car and nobody was there so i started playing music and was waiting on my brother and my friend.i waited for like 10 min and then i saw my brother stepping in the car and my friend who was with natalee. so i was surprised but anyways i started the engine and my brother was besides me and my friend and natalee were in the backseet so i started cruising in the area and asked my friend whats going on so natalee responded to me ''hey its no prob let us just drive around and have fun its my last night , she said you can drop me off later at holiday inn anyways right'' i said sure why not so as i was drove out of the carlos road and got on the mainroad there were natalees friends and she , pushed het head out of the window and screamed something i can't recall.so i was driving very slow to make a left to get in the next road and then one of natalees friend screamed for her to get out of the car , and she refused so then i stopped my car and i said natalee if your friends want you to go with them its better you go listen to them and go with them , she said no i will stay with you guys i will get a lift from you anways later, so she said bye to her friends and i drove away



*for what its worth......*

[absolut]

good theory Scott except if Papa Van Der Sloot, knowing it was an accident, which could be proven by Natalee's dead body, ie if she had OD on X, would be jeopardizing HIS whole career by participating in a cover up, if it was truly an accident, calling the cops and letting there be an autopsy on Natalee would be the best thing to do for everyone, they would be rapped on the knuckles for the X would they not, this is a Dutch colony drug no big whoop......

if there was sex and it was consensual, they can usually tell and if it wasn't consensual they can usually tell

so I think Papa wasn't hiding any accident, he was hiding something else or he knows he is counselling this son in a way to beat the murder rap, which explains why they won't let him talk to the kid.......

No body, no murder rap.

[DT]

From all accounts, it seems JVDS hooked up regularly.  It didn't take him maliciously slipping something into girls' drinks for them to willingly have sex with him.  With the volume of international media exposure on this case, I have to believe, by now, that any American girl that JVDS drugged and raped would have come forward.  

What is the likelihood, however, of a girl reporting a rape if she knowingly, voluntarily took a drug like ecstasy while in his company?

80% of the world's ecstasy comes from the Netherlands and Belgium.  With daily flights from Amsterdam, the Aruban market is fully saturated with pure X, unlike what is sold in many cities in the US.

With NH's classmates on the trip remaining silent, and knowing that JVDS hung out at the HI for a good part of the week, and a large number of the kids pulled an all-nighter their last night in Aruba, it keeps open the possibility that a sizable number of kids were game to trying ecstasy.

Natalee, naive to the effects of both alcohol and ecstasy, at the encouragement of JVDS, may well have consciously decided to try X for the first time.  Even if she wasn't drinking to excess, the potential for overdosing increased exponentially.

Piecing the story together, it seem most plausible that JVDS got the X from DK, who got it from SGC.  NH overdosed on the beach w/ JVDS.  His guilt, and feeling the need to cover it up, likely stems not from him giving her the drug, but because they likely had sex; leaving him the primary suspect.  JVDS panicked, brought NH to his house.  PVDS, knowing the law, believing it was an accident, and not wanting his son's life to be ruined, helped facilitate NH's disappearance.

Remaining questions:

WHAT did NH drink at C&C's?
HOW were NH and JVDS dancing?
WHAT did NH eat that day before going to C&C's?
Was NH at the bar when her drinks were ordered, or was she on the dance floor, or in the bathroom, and then handed the drinks by JVDS or another friend?
Did NH go to C&C's with JVDS, or did they meet up there?
When did DK, SK and SGC go to C&C's?
What was the shoving match between JVDS and NH's classmates about?

Scott,
I would be willing to bet large sums of money that you have just described almost exactly what has happened.  (Now that I think about it, it makes a whole lot more sense than all the other theories I've read and heard and even proposed myself)  JVDS may have had absolutely no malicious intent whatsoever but that doesn't mean that he is willing to come clean now.  Excellent assessment and all pieces seem to fit like a glove.

I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be close to the truth, myself and others have been saying since the beginning that their was probably some sort of overdose or other form of accidental death.  The whole kidnapping/slavery deal seems to far fetched, and she doesn't seem like the sort of person who would run away.  One thing that is bothering me though is this: why haven't they cracked yet and told?  I wouldn't think that it would be that hard to get some teenagers to crack after interogating them in horid conditons for long periods of time.  But maybe I;m wrong.

[KerinTX]

Jumping back in...

On O"Reilly's talking points he just said..

The Natalee Holloway story should be on the TV of every home in the US with teens.

and that's true...

BBL

Ewww...Mark Fuhrman coming up.

[RB]

It was the final night big bash. They had no reason to focus on Natalee's every move, nor is it likely that Natalee was the only one who spent part of the last night dancing and spending time with another young person who had caught their eye and who was not part of their school group.

So it is not like all 130 of them will have a whole lot to say, to anybody, except they hope Natalee is reunited with her family soon

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.  I do recall, however, sharing my feelings with my girlfriends about the teacher I had been secreting dating while still a student for 4 months prior to graduation and having them all at my wedding 2 years later All I'm saying is I'm sure she had some good friends closer to her who know more than they've said - even one of the MB'ers on here last night alluded to them being there and that it wouldn't "be a good idea for a number of reasons" for them to be interviewed. Kinda makes you wonder just a tad...

[iquitos]

BHT didn't want the students to be interviewed with the fear it would somehow hamper the investigation. I'll bet they have changed

The other kids who were there that were not expecting this. It was the last night of the big trip. It is not likely that they were carefully observing every single thing, and recording all the details and sequence and timelines. They were at a party bar, partying.

Then all of a sudden people want them to recollect every second that they saw one classmate, who was she with, there in the dark, where did she go from there, what time was it, who else saw her, then what, and over and over again.

And only a handful of them actually saw Natalee in the company of Joran, and the one young lady who was on last night said she knew it was Joran because he was tall and had dark hair. And she saw this, while she was in the company of another friend. Singular.  And there was a young man who said he saw Natalee in the bar dancing with Carlos and Charlie's. These are the ones who, as far as we know, saw the most relevant things, and those things that they did see were not alarming or frightening.

In fact, I have not heard any student who actually saw Natalee get into the car with the 3 boys, though there was one report of seeing her *in* a car, but whether that person could also identify all the 3 in that same car, who knows?

It was the final night big bash. They had no reason to focus on Natalee's every move, nor is it likely that Natalee was the only one who spent part of the last night dancing and spending time with another young person who had caught their eye and who was not part of their school group.

So it is not like all 130 of them will have a whole lot to say, to anybody, except they hope Natalee is reunited with her family soon.

 LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE, NATALEE FELL THORUGH THE CRACKS.

[HannieC]

Whitney wrote:

HannieC at this point, wouldn't that be a pip? (as in irony) "if it fits, you must acquit"

Just speculating  

[chloe2]

Remaining questions:


HOW were NH and JVDS dancing?
Did NH go to C&C's with JVDS, or did they meet up there?
When did DK, SK and SGC go to C&C's?

The story starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local casino (in the holiday inn) ...*for what its worth......*

What the heck is that, WonderWoman?

[CatDr]

Yes, WonderWoman.  Have you relayed this story to the authorities?