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Author Topic: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05  (Read 315471 times)
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Another K in Texas
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« Reply #340 on: June 22, 2005, 11:27:35 AM »

So, Uga, you think that when Beth showed up might even be the first time he knew she was missing.

He thought oh no, they will kill me if it tell them I left her asleep on a sand dune.

So he quickly says they took her to the hotel and then gets his friends to agree.

All of them expecting she will turn up.

And she never has.

Now how to get out of the lie.  That gets tough.
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roxyluv
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« Reply #341 on: June 22, 2005, 11:28:07 AM »

Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


Well if it's true( we never know whats true with so many rumours ) about grilling them 11 hours a day in hot and cold rooms, I would say that would be torture and they wouldn't be the first person to admit to a crime they didn't do.
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #342 on: June 22, 2005, 11:28:51 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that explains why he would have been so confrontational.)


Plus, you know -- cameras.  He took such a beating in the court of public opinion for running away the last time, if he had been rude, dismissive or ran away from her, it would only have been more incriminating. He was put on the spot. Handled it well, but that doesn't mean much, IMO.
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momto5
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« Reply #343 on: June 22, 2005, 11:29:15 AM »

Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.

I think their original story may have been a knee jerk reaction. You figure, they were the last ones with her, if something in fact "bad happened" they probably discussed the story, then were confronted earlier then they expected, and maybe one or all of them messed up their planned story. It is also possible they hadnt had time to get the "kinks" out of the story before confronted. Then faced with some evidence they made it up, are now trying to make it fit some way.
In any case they lied, and to keep up a lie this long while facing jail time is odd at any age. That is the main reason I do think they had something to do with it. If you were just covering simple drug use, sneaking out, or whatever, thats one thing. They have to realize by now thats the least of their problem. So why not just tell the truth if they dont have anything at all to hide?
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iquitos
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« Reply #344 on: June 22, 2005, 11:29:21 AM »

Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?
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DT
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« Reply #345 on: June 22, 2005, 11:29:29 AM »

Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


Well if it's true( we never know whats true with so many rumours ) about grilling them 11 hours a day in hot and cold rooms, I would say that would be torture and they wouldn't be the first person to admit to a crime they didn't do.


Right but they haven't admitted to a crime yet? Why? My best guess is that the the penalty for whatever they did is worse than the interrogations, otherwise they would have already confessed in order to make them stop.
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absolut
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« Reply #346 on: June 22, 2005, 11:30:54 AM »

Lots of guessing today, proves one things nothing in this one is fact.
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Cherry6905
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« Reply #347 on: June 22, 2005, 11:30:59 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?


No, in fact we often took our children on trips. We made them obey the laws there too.
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Comments are my opinion, not fact, not malicious, a commentary on the topic, an exercise of 1st Amend Rights.
roxyluv
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« Reply #348 on: June 22, 2005, 11:31:06 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


how do we "know" they changed their story?



Good question, I thought the police were not allowed to share information.
And where are their lawyers?
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mojo
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« Reply #349 on: June 22, 2005, 11:31:38 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


how do we "know" they changed their story?



amen iquitos...the FACT is we don't KNOW much
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Compananzi
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« Reply #350 on: June 22, 2005, 11:32:07 AM »

Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


Well we need to look for motivation,  Deepak may have changed his story because he may have wanted to distance himself and mostly his little brother from this case.  So what better way to say we dropped Joran and Natalee off, and drove away.  That is one possibility. You gonna have to refresh me on what the previous story was of Joran leaving Nat hysterical or sleeping on the beach?
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DT
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« Reply #351 on: June 22, 2005, 11:32:27 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?


Who said they sent her there to do illegal things? YOu are being a bit presumptous there dont you think?  They might have just let her go because everyone else was going and they didn't want her to miss out.  No parent I know would send their child to a foreign country for the sole purpose of drinking and gambling.
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UGAmom
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« Reply #352 on: June 22, 2005, 11:32:34 AM »

Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
So, Uga, you think that when Beth showed up might even be the first time he knew she was missing.

He thought oh no, they will kill me if it tell them I left her asleep on a sand dune.

So he quickly says they took her to the hotel and then gets his friends to agree.

All of them expecting she will turn up.

And she never has.

Now how to get out of the lie.  That gets tough.


And thinking along those lines, in a typical teenage fashion, doesn't JVS want to get in trouble for the least transgression.  It's like saying, "Yes, Mom, I did drink a beer, but I didn't get drunk."  

But that doesn't shed any light on where NH is now.
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Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.  ~
Shellbell
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« Reply #353 on: June 22, 2005, 11:32:47 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?



Most normal kids are going to do illegal things.  I grew up in a middle class neighborhood and most of my friends were all middle-highlass.  We were always allowed to go to Panama City Beach, unchaperoned, senior cruise, it happens, what Nats parents and Jorans parent allowed them to do is not unusual in any kind of way.
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Kelly
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« Reply #354 on: June 22, 2005, 11:32:49 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


how do we "know" they changed their story?


We dont, and that is the problem, that we dont know as much as we think/or may want to believe that we know.....that is what is so hard
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Kelly
momto5
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« Reply #355 on: June 22, 2005, 11:33:23 AM »

Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that explains why he would have been so confrontational.)


Plus, you know -- cameras.  He took such a beating in the court of public opinion for running away the last time, if he had been rude, dismissive or ran away from her, it would only have been more incriminating. He was put on the spot. Handled it well, but that doesn't mean much, IMO.

I agree. I mean he was running from cameras after being questioned. He knew this last time they saw him hiding in the bushes. He still didnt come forward right away, it wasnt until he KNEW they saw him he came to the gate. He then had two choices. Either invite them in and disspell any rumors they are hiding something, or turn them away and keep the rumor burning. Plus she said she was natalees mom, cameras rolling. Come on, common sense is you talk to her mother.
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Professor
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« Reply #356 on: June 22, 2005, 11:33:52 AM »

Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?
 

DID NATALEES PARENTS LET HER GO TO ARUBA DO THINGS ILLEGAL IN HER OWN GREAT STATE OF ALABAMA AND MOST OF THE OTHER STATES AT THE AGE OF 18?   WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?  NATALEE IS TWO OR THREE YEARS SHORT OF LEGAL DRINKING AND GAMBLING AGE IN THE US WHILE JORAN IS ONLY A MONTH SHORT IN ARUBA.  FOR GENERAL PURPOSES NATAEE AND JORAN ARE THE SAME AGE EDUCATIONALLY AND OTHERWISE.  TWO HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS ABOUT TO GO OUR IN THE WORLD ON THEIR OWN.  DOES DOING SOMETHING WE DON'T ALLOW IN THE US IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MAKE IT BETTER?  I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST WE START A SECOND GUESS OTHER PEOPLE'S PARENTING SKILLS BOARD FOR THIS DRIVEL.


You don't have to yell. Natalee did not break any laws. She was in Aruba and abiding by their laws.


I agree with Iquitos. I'm sorry, but this is not the issue. It doesn't matter whether Joran or Natalee were good little bunnies or bad little bunnies, under someone else's notion of how teenagers should act. All that matters is what happened on the night Natalee disappeared.

JUST DON'T YELL. OKAY, PODNER?
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HannieC
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« Reply #357 on: June 22, 2005, 11:34:04 AM »

Hi all Smile
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inthepacific
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« Reply #358 on: June 22, 2005, 11:34:11 AM »

The only reason that I can see that these boys haven't cracked yet is because if they do confess, any of them, they know that what they are living in right now is going to be what they will be living in for along time to come. With their stories changing many times, I can't help but still think they know what happened to Natalee, whether accidental or on purpose.

Also, I'm sure that their lawyers have instructed them, "no body...no evidence...no conviction...hang in there...don't talk to anyone"
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #359 on: June 22, 2005, 11:34:14 AM »

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states[/quote]

NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!![/quote]  

not what i heard!!!  why are aruban residence only allowed to go there a certain # of times per year???   Anyone who has been to FOXWOODS has gone thru the impoverished area along the way to the big glamorous casinoes...if RI resricted locals from blowing all their $ there perhaps things be different around that area / in the state too
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peace to all
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