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Author Topic: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05  (Read 308324 times)
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another monkey
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« Reply #800 on: June 22, 2005, 02:30:24 PM »

Quote from: "xcptnl"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "another monkey"
Fox News is going to have someone in Aruba of the search team from Texas on in just minutes. Guess CNN was wrong about their postponing til Friday!

Thank you. I thought I heard on fox they were taking the red eye. I guess they did after all. Hope they can find her!!



This is why I was confused as this was posted this morning.


Fox News made the announcement this morning!
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Terry
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« Reply #801 on: June 22, 2005, 02:30:30 PM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
American Ross, on the show 95.1 expressing her support of Aruba, and dispelling negative publicity.  Mrs Ross says negative publicity is undeserved.   She point out the govt closing down to assit the search for Nat.  The cancellation of a mini carnaval of Aruba out of respect of Nat.  Why does Aruba deserve this negative feed?  Also a mention of some American Devine about boycotting Aruba is undeserved...had an Arubian been lost in America doubtful if search was done prior to 24hr for missing person...nor forget about closing the govt for a search, blah blah blah..
Okay, ty.
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katya
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« Reply #802 on: June 22, 2005, 02:30:32 PM »

I think maybe she met VDS in the pm, arranged to meet later, came back and packed her stuff thinking she was going to be out very late. She sounds like an organized type of girl.

Or maybe when she was late in the am someone packed for her to cover for her being late.

Either way, I don't see how it is an important detail.  

 Also it has been repeated many times that she had two roomies, some of the other rooms had 4 girls.

I suspect these kids partied a lot harder than their parents think..I live in a Mexican Sprink break town and I have seen this age in action. (And I see nothing wrong with it, except that they fall off balconies and such Crying or Very sad )
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ChytownEd
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« Reply #803 on: June 22, 2005, 02:31:04 PM »

I apologize if I'm departing from line of discussion for past couple of pages. Had to stop to answer my phone before I could post my take on the alleged e-mail from Deepak.

The tone and over-detailed narrative don't sound like an e-mail I would send a friend if I were in his place. (Or, at least, not if I had nothing to hide.) Too much irrelevant detail. If you or I were in Deepak's place and wanted to warn a friend that they were going to hear all kinds of things about us, is this what we'd say? We'd probably cut to the chase and explain that my friend so and so, brother Satish and I were at the same location as this girl that night, and had given her a ride to wherever or gone to such and such a place and then dropped her off. But would we really tell this elaborate story - complete with claims that Natalee was too drunk to stand up? More likely we'd spend more time explaining that it turned out that we'd been the last people to see her, so naturally were considered possible witnesses and questioned. And then express concern about the way the media had gone on a feeding frenzy and was upsetting our families and trashing our reputation.
 
Luckily, Natalee's friends from Mtn Brook can probably refute much of what the "e-mail" alleges about events at the casino and at CNC's.

This isn't the first misleading information circulated by person or persons unknown (ref. post claiming that the Max Arends questioned was not Joran's friend and fellow student at the International School, but one Maxito Arendsz, who may be the same person anyway). I'm also unconvinced that those two photos of Steve Croes aren't the same guy.

Sorry for the length of this post. I just think we should all be aware that family or friends of those involved can access this and other Internet boards and use the forum to muddy the waters.
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Angiex911dsptchr
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« Reply #804 on: June 22, 2005, 02:31:17 PM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
well then that's just a load of BS. You don't have packed suitcases sitting on a bed with someone sleeping in it! Plus, Natalee would have needed something from that suitcase (at the LEAST her makeup which teens would not be caught dead without) before going to the airport. So her friends saying "they didn't think it strange", "they thought she was in another room" etc is just not accurate.
I understand that they may be embarrased or something themselves for things they did in Aruba but when a girl is missing, EVERY detail counts!!


I agree Karin.. I mentioned that as well about clothes or makeup on the last page..didnt know if anyone saw it or not..!! What if the poor girl did come back late..and her things are gone and shes in her pj's or whatnot..  that makes no sense to me....I am sure kids may have done things they would not do at home. Havnt we all?? Perhaps they are afraid for their own parents to find out?? I dunno... I agree with you 100%
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GreatOwl
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« Reply #805 on: June 22, 2005, 02:31:37 PM »

Quote from: "golden"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
I think perhaps this person isn't aware that the kids have been asked not to speak.


By Natalee's family, not by the FBI.  Bill O'Reilly totally debunked that myth.

Is it really justice to want everything Aruba has regarding this case but not want to reciporcate?


Now there is an excellent Point!!!!!  the FBI can turn over everything to the Aruban authorities that they have gotten in the states and the Arubans in exchange can provide all their information from Aruba to the FBI.  That way BHT can be kept in the loop.   Great suggestion.....   Now will the Arubans agree to that.  ?????
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 the insight to know when you've gone too far."
jlspence
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« Reply #806 on: June 22, 2005, 02:31:44 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "absolut"

The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


I think perhaps the friends last night were setting the record straight AS THEY KNEW IT.  I believe the apparent contradiction is probably due to them not being aware that Natalee and JVDS met earlier.  Natalee's parents have clearly said and Aruban LE officials have been quoted as saying that Natalee met Joran two days before she disappeared.


I don't recall anywhere the parents or authorities confirming they met earlier!  I'd check that "fact" again.


Well, here's one of the stories I read it in - the Birmingham News dated June 11, 2005.

"Holloway's mother and stepfather said earlier Friday they had uncovered van der Sloot's connection to their daughter within 24 hours of her disappearance by talking to other students who were on the trip. They then found surveillance videotapes showing van der Sloot playing poker with other Mountain Brook teens in their hotel's casino two days before she vanished."

The URL is:  
http://www.al.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml?birminghamnews?nmet&coll=2

I can find others I'm sure.
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KerinTX
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« Reply #807 on: June 22, 2005, 02:31:58 PM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
well then that's just a load of BS. You don't have packed suitcases sitting on a bed with someone sleeping in it! Plus, Natalee would have needed something from that suitcase (at the LEAST her makeup which teens would not be caught dead without) before going to the airport. So her friends saying "they didn't think it strange", "they thought she was in another room" etc is just not accurate.
I understand that they may be embarrased or something themselves for things they did in Aruba but when a girl is missing, EVERY detail counts!!


Agreed Kerin. Heck even as an adult..I am left scrambling everywhere I go because I am trying to pack my things I use before I leave lol ie hair brush, tooth brush etc etc oh yeah..clean undies lol

amen to that, sistah!
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"What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"
absolut
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« Reply #808 on: June 22, 2005, 02:32:25 PM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Seach team was doing tsunami searches.  I would think all the papers and shots would have been current because of that.  Its not like that was ten years ago.
Yes Another K but every country is different, just as every state in the US has different laws. Heck, when driving from Ls Vegas back from California, I have to go through a search station for fruit! Because you can not transport plants and fruit into California....


How come you never see that kinda thing in the movies. People just drive 80-90 miles an hour from LV to Cali. and no one is on the road. So glamourous. So fake I guess. How long does that fruit/tree line get?
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iquitos
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« Reply #809 on: June 22, 2005, 02:32:37 PM »

Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.
 

HER FRIENDS AND ROOM MATES ON GREAT LAST NIGHT DID NOT USE THE DODGE THAT THEY SLEPT AROUND IN DIFFERENT ROOMS, SAID THEY WERE VERY WORRIED WHEN THEY WOKE UP TO FIND HER NOT THERE AND REPORTED IT TO THE CHAPERONES.


How is that a dodge? It seems like a very legtitimate thing to me.


THE SLEEPING IN ANOTHER ROOM IS A DODGE BECAUSE:  A.  IT WAS USED EARLIER BY A MB STUDENT ON O'REILLY TO RATONALIZE NOT SOUNDING THE ALARM BELL EARLIER ABOUT NATALEE BEING MISSING AND B. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE WAY IT HAPPENED ACCORDING TO NATALEE'S TWO FRIENDS AND ROOM MATES WHO WERE WORRIED WHEN THEY REALIZED SHE DID NOT COME HOME AND REPORTED THIS TO THE TRAVEL FACILITATORS SINCE THEY DID NOT HAVE CHAPERONES ON THE TRIP.  I GUESS THEY NEEDED TO CANCEL NATALEES RESERVATION
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ripple20
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« Reply #810 on: June 22, 2005, 02:33:02 PM »

What do you guys honestly think? Do you think she wil be found?
The more that time goes by, the more unlikely it will be to recover her.

If Natalee was dumped in the ocean, I can hardly believe there would be much left of her.

These guys aren't budging with the truth. And, it may very well be left a mystery forever.

What do you all think???
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Getagrip
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« Reply #811 on: June 22, 2005, 02:33:14 PM »

Quote from: "Red"
They seem to be, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1173
Texas EquuSearch Delayed Until Friday

The officials on Aruba have got to start understanding what the word "perception" mean. Aruban's I understand your many points about unfairness and being blamed but there has to be an image of a sense of urgency.

Completely agree. Right now, I don't see the 'sense of urgency'...I sense an annoyance with the media, with the US, with NH's family...my personal perception.

A perfect example of this, which has been bothering since I heard it, is the PIO (Public Information Officer) refusing to answer a reporter's question about crime statistics in Aruba - that he 'unilaterally' made the decision not to divulge information, and that he would release it when he's good and ready (I'm paraphrasing, repeated twice on the MSM).

For North Americans who are so used to accountability and transparency, this attitude is baffling. I can understand the withholding of information on the investigation prior to charges being filed, but I would love to see the PIO's job description to see if there are any laws that prevent him from releasing the information, or if he's making up the rules as he goes along.
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-------->  Aruba = Opposite World  <--------
Scarlet
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« Reply #812 on: June 22, 2005, 02:33:16 PM »

So I am guessing since nobody replied, MSNBC just rehashed old news. I need to get out a blueprint. By the way didn't anybody else think it was odd that Joran's dad told him not to say anything about the case.
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melrose
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« Reply #813 on: June 22, 2005, 02:34:02 PM »

Quote from: "ScubaSteve"
I have already said this don't know if anyone seen it, I feel it is very plausible and a lot more realisitc than many of the other proposed scenerios (international kidnapping, drug rings, etc.)

If you consider the Deepak email to be authentic, and furthermore their time of arrival at the bar to be truthful.... then the theorized "drugging" of natalee by JVS and company doesn't really fit.

JVS arrives at 12:30 bar closes at 1... that's a 30 minute gap. Now consider Natalee has already had her fair share of drinks leading up to this point. I don't know about you but the drinks don't go down as smooth after you have already had your fair share. In order for JVS to drug her he would have to hand her a drink upon his immediate arrival to the bar, which doesn't make much sense. Furthermore, I speculate it would take NH a good 25 plus minutes to even finish the drink after already having her fair share...especially if she was dancing.

Perhaps she and some of the MBHS boys (and girls who knows) voluntarily drugged themselves to make their last ngiht of vacation special?

Or perhaps MBHS boys could have slipped something into Natalees drink? (They were with her the majority of the drinking window that night)

Where do the MBHS students get the drugs from? Consider this scenerio: IT has already been reported that some of the students took the Tatoo boat with DJ Steve Croes....
...Some of the boys make friends with Croes (not common I have befriended and drank with DJ's on past trips).... They get to talking, Croes offers a connect for drugs if they are looking for it... one thing leads to another....

...Perhaps that is why Croes has been reported as cooperating with authorites.. many of you have even speculated he may just be a witness


I belive that is the more likely scenerio. As to what happened after leaving CC, I do not really know. MY guess would be that Nat OD's... JVS and the boys panic and get rid of the body...they know it doesn't look good since they were the last ones with her... which could explain why they act as if they are guilty.

Aslo- with the recent reporting of fights between MBHS boys and Joran... leads to further speculation.  Why would MBH boys get into a fight with Joran?  Did they want to "hook up" with Natalee and feel Joran was impeading that?  That is usually the most common reason for such fights; over a girl.

The fact that Joran knew that MBH boys knew who he was ever further confirms why Joran and the brothers would act guilty.  Put yourself in their position.  You take a girl away from a bar, the same girl whose guy friends you got into a fight with, and she mysteriously dies on you on the beach.... Joran and the brothers to realize "hey this is not good we are goign to be the first people they suspect"  
....plus Joran and the boys would almost definetly have 0 knowledge of Natalee being drugged by MBHS boys.... so her death to them is just as big of a mysterious as it is to us... so what do they tell the police?  "UM yea she just went unconcious and died... police do an autopsy and find the cause to be drugs.. who do you think is taking the rap for that???


I am also thinking this same scenerio is what happened.  Until we find out when the scuffle occurred, what it was about and what was going on in C&C before Jorvan and Co arrived we can only speculate.
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Teo
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« Reply #814 on: June 22, 2005, 02:34:17 PM »

I'll try to sum it up very briefly, I did not listen all of it, due that I wanted to post as quick as possible for all of you to listen it yourself.

She was very upset due to some negative reports some american media did and also that lady Deefine (if I am not mistaken) and that she said that if that lady ever went to Aruba, she would come back to Aruba fior sure.

She works in some kind of police work, she said that in america for example they would never canceldthe 4th of july, at the other hand, Aruba had a big summercarnival planned, but canceld the whole thing out of respect for the family Holloway, something that would never happen in the USA. She realy spoke very positive about the local people of Aruba..

More or less, she stood in defence of Aruba and saying a lot of things arubian were allready saying, but maybe because of their being locals, their argumenst were interpreted as being favoured due to their connections to the island. Thats why I am so thankfull to this american lady who knows the island for many years and stood and defend Aruba and said that the many negative things being said of Aruba by certain people in the USA were out of place.

Thats it for now, bye bye

Teo
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You can always listen to different Arubian Radio stations at http://www.arubadag.com so tune in and be informed at the spot
another monkey
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« Reply #815 on: June 22, 2005, 02:34:17 PM »

Quote from: "Terry"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
American Ross, on the show 95.1 expressing her support of Aruba, and dispelling negative publicity.  Mrs Ross says negative publicity is undeserved.   She point out the govt closing down to assit the search for Nat.  The cancellation of a mini carnaval of Aruba out of respect of Nat.  Why does Aruba deserve this negative feed?  Also a mention of some American Devine about boycotting Aruba is undeserved...had an Arubian been lost in America doubtful if search was done prior to 24hr for missing person...nor forget about closing the govt for a search, blah blah blah..
Okay, ty.


Is she saying that Arubans don't have mothers willing to devote every minute searching for her child, demanding that something be done, while her heart is being broken? Natalee's mother is brave and strong and will not let this get covered up, regardless of tourist dollars or embarrassment of government or police. Now, I'm getting mad.
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CancunMole
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« Reply #816 on: June 22, 2005, 02:36:04 PM »

Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "iquitos"

SINCE WHEN DOES A NORTH-SOUTH TRIP OVER ONE TIME ZONE CAUSE JET LAG?  JET, LAG JET SCHMAG


The issue isn't the number of timezones...it's the actual time involved in travel.  I searched Expedia.com for flights between Birmingham, AL to Aruba and it returned the following flight times, which vary because of different connections.

8 hours 32 minutes
9 hours 23 minutes
9 hours 58 minutes
10 hours 44 minutes
11 hours 18 minutes

Being a frequent flyer in my job, I can vouch that this much time in airports, on planes and waiting in airport security IS very tiring.


Thought I heard it said that it was a charter that they took. 2 planes because so many? Charters that I've taken are direct.
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #817 on: June 22, 2005, 02:36:30 PM »

Quote from: "arlee"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!
Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54



Nope, 54.  That was me.  Natalee was last seen 2:00 a.m. on 5/30.  I didn't post this until Wed. June 1 right before 10:00 cst.  My math is not the best (in fact it's the worst) but that's in the ball park.

I started that thread on the visitAruba board because we couldn't find any info & had been losing our minds over it.  I was hoping to find an email address for a police station in case a PIO could give us any info at all.  The rumors we were hearing were horrible & we had virtually no official means of getting info.  I had never used a message board before & just gave it a shot.  Turns out another MB lady was starting a thread at tripadvisor at almost the same time.  A poster at visitaruba directed me there, & I found this board after someone posted links at one or both.

You'll note in there that we'd heard the suspect was a career criminal & ws unresponsive in interrogation.  This turned out to be VDS, who is not a career criminal and was not being interrogated.  We also had googled the article about the previous month's kidnapping in Aruba.  You'll see a lot of early discussion on that.  That's why I posted yesterday when I got official word that the case was in Aruba, IRAQ.

As an aside:
This serves as an example of how inconsistencies in stories can happen easily, something we've discussed on the boards for a couple of days at least.  And how something you hear from one person and believe and repeat can turn out to have been something else altogether.  It doesn't mean you were lying when you said it.  And it doesn't mean you're suspiciously changing your story when you correct it, having found a more reliable source.


I am sorry, as another poster pointed out earlier, I did not even take into account the date which would make that statement correct. I apologize again. I also commend you on your lovely daughter she is a credit to her parents and her friend, Natalee. Please accept my apology that I did not intend to mistake anything you said. I didn't even realize it was you until a post or 2 above yours.
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DT
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« Reply #818 on: June 22, 2005, 02:36:38 PM »

I think you guys seem to be forgetting that their are a lot of legitimate reasons why a teenager would stay out all night, and a lot of them have nothing to do with that teenager doing anythig wrong or immoral.
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klaasend
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« Reply #819 on: June 22, 2005, 02:38:14 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Seach team was doing tsunami searches.  I would think all the papers and shots would have been current because of that.  Its not like that was ten years ago.
Yes Another K but every country is different, just as every state in the US has different laws. Heck, when driving from Ls Vegas back from California, I have to go through a search station for fruit! Because you can not transport plants and fruit into California....


How come you never see that kinda thing in the movies. People just drive 80-90 miles an hour from LV to Cali. and no one is on the road. So glamourous. So fake I guess. How long does that fruit/tree line get?

I make the drive a few times a year.  The Agriculture Station is only on your return to Calif from NV.  The line takes only a couple minutes to get through, no big deal.  Other than that you do drive 80-90 miles an hour.
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