Lively Case Discussion #506 8/4 - 8/6/2006

[Anna]

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It is very easy to aspirate one's own vomit.  Rock stars used to do it all the time stoned--Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, maybe Jimmi Hendricks?  If one's reflexes are off, they just breathe in when they should not do so and it is a done deal.

It also happens when a person is weak as having the flu for several days or any debilitating condition that has the person weakened or the lungs too weak to respond in a normal matter by coughing or otherwise expelling the liquid.

But drugs and alcohol are both heavily linked to this.  And it is a good reason why punks should never be allowed to be in a position to reneder anybody unconscious.  Far too dangerous to be left in the hands of the stupid like this.

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[Bearlyhere]

Oops, I missed 13.

13.  "After I told Natalee that she was allowed to go home with me she told her friends that she would meet up later with them at the Holiday Inn Hotel."

Allowed, allowed???  Don't get me started on his misogynistic attitude.

Does this mean he is lying to her?  After all he said he couldn't take her home because of the fierce watchdog, PVDS, and his brothers, who are in the Netherlands with a telescope fixed on their house so they can watch their brother because they know what a good role model he is.  

She would meet up with them later at the hotel because that's where she thought they were going?  Did she think she was merely sharing a ride to the hotel? [/i]

[Bearlyhere]

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It is very easy to aspirate one's own vomit.  Rock stars used to do it all the time stoned--Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, maybe Jimmi Hendricks?  If one's reflexes are off, they just breathe in when they should not do so and it is a done deal.

It also happens when a person is weak as having the flu for several days or any debilitating condition that has the person weakened or the lungs too weak to respond in a normal matter by coughing or otherwise expelling the liquid.

But drugs and alcohol are both heavily linked to this.  And it is a good reason why punks should never be allowed to be in a position to reneder anybody unconscious.  Far too dangerous to be left in the hands of the stupid like this.

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Anna, I agree.  I would think it is very possible, especially with someone who doesn't drink on a regular basis and then consumes a 151 shot with a whiskey and coke chaser.  

[Anna]

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Natalee's last knnown words to non-hostile forces were to Alana Jordan that she was going back to the hotel with "them" indicating the group of MB students in front of her.

I remain convinced to this day that this is exactly what she thought she was doing.  It was established early on Joran had presented himself as a 19 year old soccer player from Holland staying at the HI.

The need to eliminate the kidnapping by deceit is the point of the wild claims that Natalee wanted to go home with Joran.  Not believable at all.

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[Anna]

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It is very easy to aspirate one's own vomit.  Rock stars used to do it all the time stoned--Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, maybe Jimmi Hendricks?  If one's reflexes are off, they just breathe in when they should not do so and it is a done deal.

It also happens when a person is weak as having the flu for several days or any debilitating condition that has the person weakened or the lungs too weak to respond in a normal matter by coughing or otherwise expelling the liquid.

But drugs and alcohol are both heavily linked to this.  And it is a good reason why punks should never be allowed to be in a position to reneder anybody unconscious.  Far too dangerous to be left in the hands of the stupid like this.

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Anna, I agree.  I would think it is very possible, especially with someone who doesn't drink on a regular basis and then consumes a 151 shot with a whiskey and coke chaser.  

Especially with a "Roofie" planted in it.  

Kid on sidewalk outside Joran's school heard in background of Greta van Sustren interview of classmates of Joran:  

Little kid voice is heard saying "Joran puts things in girl's drinks!"

This is the background noise while Greta is asking an older boy how come Joran has such success with the ladies.  Greta knows exactly what he did but I do believe she has some moral conviction that survival is for only the fittest and no use the Sporter having his life ruined over this because it was just a stupid immature mistake of some kind on his part.  

Same mindset many in Aruba seem to share as well.  

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[Tylergal]

Gosh, you night monkeys are coming up with some goodies.  Bearly, I agree with you on the statements that you just dissected.  Anna, I too agree that she thought she was going "home with Joran," because his home at that point was the same as hers, because he had told her that he was staying at the HI, as he was an exchange student.  Certainly no reason to doubt that is where she thought she was going, the same place as he, the Holiday Inn.  I think tht is where the "home" comes from and he lied to make it sound like that ramble-jamble junky looking house he lives in.

[Bearlyhere]

17.  "To your question whether I know what Deepak and Satish did with their cups, I answer you that I do not know that. "

What is with all these cup questions.  Could Joran have brought his cup out and maybe poured Natalee another drink?  I thought they made one stop to get something.  Hmmm.....

18.  "Natalee and I walked hand in hand."

Hand in hand is a pretty innocent thing.  I would think if she really was promiscuous like he seems to imply, she would be all over him.   She sounds pretty innocent to me.

19.  "When we arrived at the car Deepak was already waiting for us."

Notice how he says us.  This tells me that Deepak knew there was an "us" and not just a "me."

20.  "We got into the car and before Deepak drove off I told Deepak and Satish that Natalee wanted to go to my house but that I could not take her there because my father and brothers were home."

He could not take her to the house, but could sneak into the apartment, he keeps telling the lie that his brothers are home--does he tell that to the K2s or is he just lying to be consistent?

He has already lied to Natalee, telling her he is taking her home.

21.  "After I told Deepak and Satish this they said it was OK."

What was okay?  To tell lies?

22.  "Then I told the girl that I could not take her to my house but that I could come to her hotel room."

Daddy won't let you bring a girl home, but it will be okay to stay in a motel with her all night.      

Don't forget, papa still thinks he's home.  What happens when he comes to get you for school in the morning?  

Good thing mama didn't give him all the boys to watch when he has this much trouble just keeping tabs on one.    

23.  "She answered me that she did not want to go to her hotel room and that she wanted to go to the North coast to watch the sharks. "

Why would she ask that when she knew he didn't drive to C&C's?  Does she want to go watch the sharks and make out with Joran while the K2s watch?  Hardly.  Does she want to be dropped off somewhere with no ride home?  Hardly.  This doesn't make any sense.  Why would she ask this?

[Anna]

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That word "allowed" just really gets to me.  How cocky he remained!  And that garbage about her being impressed with a Honda, was it?  She must have just gone bananas at Brunos with all the Lexus and Lincoln SUV's and even Hummers so common at the mall.  Boxters and Jaguars and I think Deepak's car would be sort of tacky and juvenile like those in California with lights on the edge of the bottom like Christmas tree lights and the car jumps up and down.

I find it hard to believe seeing the assortment she encountered on a daily basis that she was at all impressed with that silly car.

 

[Bearlyhere]

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Natalee's last knnown words to non-hostile forces were to Alana Jordan that she was going back to the hotel with "them" indicating the group of MB students in front of her.

I remain convinced to this day that this is exactly what she thought she was doing.  It was established early on Joran had presented himself as a 19 year old soccer player from Holland staying at the HI.

The need to eliminate the kidnapping by deceit is the point of the wild claims that Natalee wanted to go home with Joran.  Not believable at all.

.

Yes, Anna, I agree, a lot of incongruities here.

[Bearlyhere]

Especially with a "Roofie" planted in it.  

Kid on sidewalk outside Joran's school heard in background of Greta van Sustren interview of classmates of Joran:  

Little kid voice is heard saying "Joran puts things in girl's drinks!"

This is the background noise while Greta is asking an older boy how come Joran has such success with the ladies.  Greta knows exactly what he did but I do believe she has some moral conviction that survival is for only the fittest and no use the Sporter having his life ruined over this because it was just a stupid immature mistake of some kind on his part.  

Same mindset many in Aruba seem to share as well.  

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I am not sure what Greta is thinking.  I am not ready to count her out...yet.

It certainly would explain why Natalee would "fall asleep," especially if she had no experience with any of this.  Maybe he is used to doing this with girls who are partiers, but I truly don't think Natalee was.  

[Anna]

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I would like two things cleared up completely.  ALE could do so easily, too, but I doubt they have ever checked.

I would first like to know if the two younger brothers were still in Holland at this point in time.

Secondly, I would like to konw what judges had actually atayed  at the VDS residence how often and when.

Did the younger brothers stay there with Joran the whole time and if so were they totally unattended?  Did they return with Paulus?  Were they still in Holland with Anita?  Just what exactly is the concrete truth of that matter?  If they were still in Holland then half the things Joran has said are easily disproven and there should be sufficient evidence based on such massive lying to prosecute on circumstantial evidence.

But first, they would have to actually want to solve this crime and that was never in the plans it would seem.

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[Bearlyhere]

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That word "allowed" just really gets to me.  How cocky he remained!  And that garbage about her being impressed with a Honda, was it?  She must have just gone bananas at Brunos with all the Lexus and Lincoln SUV's and even Hummers so common at the mall.  Boxters and Jaguars and I think Deepak's car would be sort of tacky and juvenile like those in California with lights on the edge of the bottom like Christmas tree lights and the car jumps up and down.

I find it hard to believe seeing the assortment she encountered on a daily basis that she was at all impressed with that silly car.

 

I haven't gotten there yet.  Maybe she was impressed by how neat it was for a bachelor's car and he misunderstood--maybe even deliberately.   Deepak seems to be rather OCD about it.  Maybe she simply said, nice car, because she is a nice, polite girl, just like she appears.

[Anna]

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Bearly,
You are doing a great job and I will pick right up here in the morning and read anything else you write about this.  My eyes are closing and I had better sleep while it is cool and I can.

Think you and Tyler are all that are still here posting and we lost Spooky to sleep a while back, lol.

Goodnight and I will read it all in the morning.

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[Bearlyhere]

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I would like two things cleared up completely.  ALE could do so easily, too, but I doubt they have ever checked.

I would first like to know if the two younger brothers were still in Holland at this point in time.

Secondly, I would like to konw what judges had actually atayed  at the VDS residence how often and when.

Did the younger brothers stay there with Joran the whole time and if so were they totally unattended?  Did they return with Paulus?  Were they still in Holland with Anita?  Just what exactly is the concrete truth of that matter?  If they were still in Holland then half the things Joran has said are easily disproven and there should be sufficient evidence based on such massive lying to prosecute on circumstantial evidence.

But first, they would have to actually want to solve this crime and that was never in the plans it would seem.

.

Therein lies the rub.

I have to clear my head of all this madness so I can go to sleep without having Slootmares.

[Bearlyhere]

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Bearly,
You are doing a great job and I will pick right up here in the morning and read anything else you write about this.  My eyes are closing and I had better sleep while it is cool and I can.

Think you and Tyler are all that are still here posting and we lost Spooky to sleep a while back, lol.

Goodnight and I will read it all in the morning.

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Nite, Anna, I am going to sleep as well.

[Peaches]

Good morning.  I woke up at 6 like I do every day.  Some real interesting stuff going on overnight.  Such smart folks.  

Those statements just make me sick.  The whole mess just makes me sick.  I'm trying to be patient here.  It's not easy.

[justinsmama]

The girlfriend in New Jersey who he spent the summer with broke up with him because he was "too nice."  I wish Justinmama was here to confirm my belief, but I have heard there are men who cannot have sex without violence or force involved, because they have a "mommy" complex.  Has anyone ever heard that before?  I think the big bully has a "mommy complex," as we have seen him patting her like she was his favorite animal, that he chose not to kill, as with his dog.

did anyone watch last seasons "Nip/Tuck"???
sorta went off on that "mommy" thing

I love Nip/Tuck! New Season to start early September!

Tyler~ Violence required for sex would not necessarily involve a "Mommy Complex". To me, Joran seems to be a mere sociopath who is also narcissistic (Antisocial Personality Disorder with Narcissistic traits). Also, he is apparently capable of sex without the violence (per one girlfriend). His mother is merely a means to various ends for him. As long as she promotes his agendas, she is acceptable to him. I doubt he feels any real affection for her. More likely an underlying contempt over how easily she is fooled by him. Sociopaths are quite adept at playing emotions they do not feel in the slightest.

[justinsmama]

Snoopdawg~ I see ya lurkin'! Join in!

Hiya, Peaches!

Hey, refuses released from the state hospitals!

[snoopy]

Hi Justinsmama!!  

Good Morning Everybody!!  

Just reading, and trying to catch up.  Not really surprised by the NY ruling.
Great conversations last night, and always love Hammers post.

This ain't over!!  JQK knows what he is doing.  I think there are people in Aruba who want for the truth to come out.  It will.  I also see a complete change in gov. coming there.  When this is all over with, many will wish that this had been taken care of in NY.  This ruling was not a win for those involved in harming Natalee or covering up the crime committed against her.  JMO.  Now the legal war is coming to Aruba!  JQK is not done with them.  Wishful thinking maybe.......

[Jerry from Ohio]

A few things I now Believe: Greta VS has now been won over to the Dark side I don't really know how though but the VDS had or have something that she wants or wanted very badly .
  Karan Jannsen has cut a deal with the Dutch to cover this mess up Maybe a full lush retirement in Holland ?
  The people of Aruba are a very weak ignorant 3rd world race too ignorant so as to suffer for the VDS's with out a fight .
  They are like sheep they just lay down and die when the least small thing goes wrong .
  Deepak may love his car more then a human life .
  Satish has a lot more going in this whole situation then anyone will admit or acknowledge to this point .  If the right amount of pressure were to be put on him with no support around he WOULD talk , he has fear of the unknown and that would over take his fear of what will happen to him if he talks .
  and finally This whole situation will now only be resolved by out side the law justice , The Twitty and Hollaway families shoud just face the fact that they will not recieve Natalee's body or the true story and just accept justice as it will be dealt out to Joran ,Palus and the Kalpo Bros who are in my mind the most ignorant ones of all because the VDS's will place them in prison in a heart beat if they can do this to place the blame on the Kalpos .
  But the Kalpos seem not to believe this and are too sad and ignorant to cut some sort of a deal in exchange for the truth .
   These are just my personal  opinions .
    Monkeys  it has been a great fight and believe me we can all be proud of the fight that we have been a part of some very smart folks here .
  I wish I could be more positive but ast the moment I can't .
    Jerry from Ohio    
 

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It is very easy to aspirate one's own vomit.  Rock stars used to do it all the time stoned--Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, maybe Jimmi Hendricks?  If one's reflexes are off, they just breathe in when they should not do so and it is a done deal.

It also happens when a person is weak as having the flu for several days or any debilitating condition that has the person weakened or the lungs too weak to respond in a normal matter by coughing or otherwise expelling the liquid.

But drugs and alcohol are both heavily linked to this.  And it is a good reason why punks should never be allowed to be in a position to reneder anybody unconscious.  Far too dangerous to be left in the hands of the stupid like this.

.

Anna, I agree.  I would think it is very possible, especially with someone who doesn't drink on a regular basis and then consumes a 151 shot with a whiskey and coke chaser.  

Especially with a "Roofie" planted in it.  

Kid on sidewalk outside Joran's school heard in background of Greta van Sustren interview of classmates of Joran:  

Little kid voice is heard saying "Joran puts things in girl's drinks!"

This is the background noise while Greta is asking an older boy how come Joran has such success with the ladies.  Greta knows exactly what he did but I do believe she has some moral conviction that survival is for only the fittest and no use the Sporter having his life ruined over this because it was just a stupid immature mistake of some kind on his part.  

Same mindset many in Aruba seem to share as well.  

.