Lively Case Discussion #506 8/4 - 8/6/2006

[BTgirl]

Good Morning monkeys.

Thanks to all who spent so much time last night reading between the lines on the statements.

It's so infuriating to have to try to guess what happened, due to the willful incompetence of ALE.

The idea of Natalee dying in the car of the drugs makes  sense, but if we go with that, how do we account for the blood in the car? Also, if she died just from the drugs, does that mean we discount J2K talking about her hitting her head, i.e. a head injury being evident if her body is found?

It's so much like a jigsaw puzzle with part of the pieces missing.

[mishy]

Do we know if she asked for the shot and layed on the bar or if he asked her to lay on the bar and then he ordered the shot?  I simply can't believe he didn't know what one was.

He spends an awful lot of money in a brief time.  How much does he spend on his planned nights out?

Exactly. This kid does not work and has snuck out of the house, therefore didn't ask dad for cash to go out ...But he can blow $20 in 2 seconds on drinks for everybody...Where does he get his cash?

Can you imagine, at 17 years, asking dad for cash so you can go to the bar??    

[San]

The only person I ever heard say that about the jelly shots was Dan Riehl and we know that very early on he was in cahoots with the Sloots.  I did hear Dave alude to it one night on TV but not anything definitive. I am not going to try to quote him but he said something to the effect, "yeah, we have heard about the jelly shots and all the..." AND AT THAT POINT I THINK HE WAS INTERRUPTED FOR ANOTHER QUESTION.

I remember either Joran's or Kalpoes Lawyer say it on TV one night about the Jelly Shots.  But then again looks who is saying it paid liars.

[San]

Do we know if she asked for the shot and layed on the bar or if he asked her to lay on the bar and then he ordered the shot?  I simply can't believe he didn't know what one was.

He spends an awful lot of money in a brief time.  How much does he spend on his planned nights out?

Exactly. This kid does not work and has snuck out of the house, therefore didn't ask dad for cash to go out ...But he can blow $20 in 2 seconds on drinks for everybody...Where does he get his cash?

Can you imagine, at 17 years, asking dad for cash so you can go to the bar??    

Or is he working for his so called phantom half brother who is a drug dealer on the island.  Who are his brothers connections.  Is Paulus protecting not only himself but two sons.

[MisGivings]

Hello, all, just in for a quickie.
Did anyone read this in one of the Google Alerts regarding Natalee Holloway?;

When Alabama teen Natalee Holloway disappeared last May while vacationing in Aruba, Wynn said, she started getting mental flashes of the girl being held in the basement of a yellow house and then leaving, intoxicated.

She visited Aruba that summer.

"Everywhere I went was where the cadaver dogs went," Wynn said. She returned to California a few days later because she suspected the hotel she was staying at was somehow involved in a conspiracy covering up Holloway’s disappearance and death.

The quote is from an article about a phychic.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/living/15210953.htm

Isn't the VDS house yellow?

[Lala'sMom]

Morning Monksters!  I couldn't sleep last night thinking about all this stuff.  I think we should also talk about how these statements align with the timeline most of us have accepted in some form.  If, as Deepak indicates on the Skeeters tape, "they all had sex with her", then the rapes did not take place in the car....it occured, IMO, near the lighthouse.  A place they willingly place themselves out of fear they were seen. ( Remember the reference to the different cars they saw along the way?) She was injured in that area enough to make them get her back in the car and head back to the hotel (1st panic of the perps, this is not what Deepak is talking about, yet.)

Joran's Statement:
While we were driving in the direction of the Lighthouse and were close to the dunes, Natalee fell half asleep/dozed off again. When she startled awake again she asked me where we were and I answered her that we were at the Lighthouse. Natalee then said to me that we should take her to the Holiday Inn Hotel because she had to travel the next day. We drove up to the lighthouse and then we took the same road down again towards the Holiday Inn. While we were driving in the direction/towards the hotel, she dozed off several times/fell half asleep several times and we didn't kiss anymore.[/b]

He doesn't seem to be at all worried about her condition at this time.  If he already knew there was a problem, then he would be busy trying to think of a way to hide it. He is quick to mention she was falling asleep and that she woke up and was talking to him...coherently enough to remember where she was staying. At this time, he knew full well that she was in trouble, but in his mind he is rationalizing what he would like to have had happen.  That being she was just asleep.  Truth is she was most likely bleeding badly by now, from what injury or reason know one knows.  He was in a panic here...it just doesn't show from his story because of his fine tuned lying ability.

The statement by Deepak holds more truth in it than Joran's at this point.  Deepak knows they all had sex with her, even little Satish. She was place into Deepak's car.  Maybe the blood was not as evident until now with Deepak, since he was driving. Nevertheless, why would he ask Joran how it is possible for a drugged girl to fall asleep???  He wasn't asking about her sleeping he was trying to find out if she was alive and breathing.  Joran had to organzie his thoughts about her hotel arrangements, because she coudln't respond to them at this point. Thus Deepak indicating some time had passed before Joran answered.  Remember he never said that Natalee was speaking at this time...only Joran said that.  I also bet you there wasn't any loud music playing with all this panic going on. (2nd panic, the one in Deepak's voice)


Deepak's Statement:
At the section where there was no street lighting, Joran told me that the girl had fallen asleep. I quickly turned around and saw that she was really sleeping. I asked Joran in dutch how that was possible. I told Joran to wake up the girl to ask her where she was saying in order for me to drop her off. After I asked Joran where she was staying, about one to two minutes had passed before Joran told me that she was staying at the "Holiday Inn" hotel. Just to be sure, I repeated "Holiday Inn". Satish also asked Joran: "Holiday Inn"! I then accelerated until I hit ninety kilometers an hour. The exhaust of my car makes a lot of noise. The faster I drive the noisier it becomes. I immediately turned into the first road that leads to the "Holiday Inn".

Natalee is not breathing or barely breathing at this point...sheer panic ensues and they just want to get her out of the car and far away from the  situation.  Only Joran remains semi-calm here.  Joran most likely has told Deepak that he thinks she is sick or something or that she isn't breathing.  Or that she is really losing a lot of blood in the backseat.  either way, Deepak and Satish have begun to panic right at this moment and Joran can't control what is happening in the car. Thus the story to cover their butts made around the pool later.

[Lala'sMom]

Hello, all, just in for a quickie.
Did anyone read this in one of the Google Alerts regarding Natalee Holloway?;

When Alabama teen Natalee Holloway disappeared last May while vacationing in Aruba, Wynn said, she started getting mental flashes of the girl being held in the basement of a yellow house and then leaving, intoxicated.

She visited Aruba that summer.

"Everywhere I went was where the cadaver dogs went," Wynn said. She returned to California a few days later because she suspected the hotel she was staying at was somehow involved in a conspiracy covering up Holloway’s disappearance and death.

The quote is from an article about a phychic.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/living/15210953.htm

Isn't the VDS house yellow?

Yes, there is yellow color on the Sloot house, but I don't think their house has a basement.  Maybe the basement (maybe it's like a rec room or something in the basement area) is Lorenzo's house.

[Lala'sMom]

Let's think about another scenario for a moment. The one where the witness sees them at the pond area.  Remember someone was slumped or hiding in the backseat.  Maybe that was Natalee or maybe that was someone else trying to determine if she was still alive.  Being in a drugged state your respirations would be shallow and maybe intermitent.  So they may have thought she was dead and then while Deepak is driving she moves and they know they have to unload her fast.  So they drive to the pond area with the intention of dumping her there, but the witness shows up and they realize he can identify them so they change their minds.  Could someone help me with a time frame here so as to tell if they had enough time to do all this by now?

[Lala'sMom]

Hellooooooooooooo!  Am I talking to myself?

[2NJSons_Mom]

Let's think about another scenario for a moment. The one where the witness sees them at the pond area.  Remember someone was slumped or hiding in the backseat.  Maybe that was Natalee or maybe that was someone else trying to determine if she was still alive.  Being in a drugged state your respirations would be shallow and maybe intermitent.  So they may have thought she was dead and then while Deepak is driving she moves and they know they have to unload her fast.  So they drive to the pond area with the intention of dumping her there, but the witness shows up and they realize he can identify them so they change their minds.  Could someone help me with a time frame here so as to tell if they had enough time to do all this by now?

2-2:30am comes to mind, but may not be accurate.  I don't have a timeline saved, unfortunately.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Remembered a thread, here is something, Lala's:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=101

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks 2N, I thought I was in here alone for a minute.  

Okay, let's say they left with her between 1:15 and 1:30 from C&C.  Then drove to the light house area.  Maybe 10 minutes has passed, they all force themselves on her and she is either injured or becomes sick during this time.  (Most likely injured because of the blood as reported by the FBI.) Leaving in a panic would shorten their time on the return trip, so they could easily be placed at the pond, with Natalee still in the back seat, injured or dead between 2:00 and 2:30 AM.  That is not a stretch at all.  What does everyone else think?  Please feel free to correct me if I have anything wrong.

[Lala'sMom]

This account from previous statements by the MB teens:
1:00 am: Haley Uncapher leaves CnCs and walks to Choose a Name, does not see Natalee as she is walking (Uncapher 302).

Alana Jordan goes back inside CnCs with female friend looking for stragglers, find one male MB kid sitting in the bar. The three leave to look for stragglers at another bar. Outside they encounter Natalee as she is walking with Joran, a short distance behind another MB group that is going to catch taxis back to the HI. Natalee points to the other group and says she is going with them, Alana's group parts with Natalee (Alana's BOR interview, ect)

Male MB kid sees Natalee go back inside bar, emerge 15-20 minutes later with Deepak holding her by the arm, walk with him down the alley to rear parking (Dave Holloway). [/b]

15 -20 minutes puts them leaving at around 1:30.  This skews the timeline by several minutes.  Thus putting them at the pond later and more in tune with witness statement.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I agree it's possible, Lala's, if the timeline has any truth to it.

My DH is urging me to get ready.  Have to do some stuff for Dad & then go to a wake this afternoon.  Will be MIA for a few minutes then, when he's ready, we'll be gone for a few hours.  Don't want you to be left in the lurch, here, without 'splainin'

[Lala'sMom]

On the way to the Lighthouse and from the Lighthouse to the hotel, I had stopped nowhere. I had the windows of my car closed and the radio on loud.

Sure you did Deepak, you stopped at Arashi beach, you said so.  

Deepak stops the car at Arashi beach because one of them had to relieve himself (Deepak statement, according to Dolph Richardson on Opsporing Verzocht)

Get your story straight!

[Easywriter]

Who will be on Dana's show besides the George Reeves story?

[cubbeegirl]

Thanks 2N, I thought I was in here alone for a minute.  

Okay, let's say they left with her between 1:15 and 1:30 from C&C.  Then drove to the light house area.  Maybe 10 minutes has passed, they all force themselves on her and she is either injured or becomes sick during this time.  (Most likely injured because of the blood as reported by the FBI.) Leaving in a panic would shorten their time on the return trip, so they could easily be placed at the pond, with Natalee still in the back seat, injured or dead between 2:00 and 2:30 AM.  That is not a stretch at all.  What does everyone else think?  Please feel free to correct me if I have anything wrong.

I am with you Lala's....

[Lala'sMom]

Deepak's Statement:

After I had dropped her off at the hotel I took the shortest way towards the main road. I immediately drove to Joran's place and dropped him off there. I think it took me about 15 minutes to get there. I estimate that it was approximately 02.25 hours. After I dropped Joran off I drove straight home. I took me about 15 minutes. Joran doesn't live far away from me. I estimate that it was approximately 02.40 hours. Satish immediately went to bed/sleep. I had turned on the television in the living room. Like that I went in and out of my room. Watching a little television and then sitting behind my computer. I stayed up for about an hour after I had arrived at home. I had phoned no-one, after I got home. I had spoken to no-one until I woke up at approximately 14.00 hours. I have no girlfriend and I have never had a girlfriend.


1:50 am: Kalpoes leave Joran and Natalee on Marriott beach, return home (D. Kock on Greta, 8/23/05)

2:00 am: Deepak logs onto computer, Satish goes to sleep (D. Kock on Greta, 8/23/05)
p2:40 am: Joran phones Deeak telling him he is walking home and will message him when he gets there (D. Kock on Greta, 8/23/05) . This is the same phone call that Tacopina says occurred at 2:26.


Time is confused here.  There is no way for Deepak to be home on his computer at 2:00 AM.  He clearly states in his police statement that he doesn' get home until 2:40 AM.  Even an approx. doesn't allow for the time difference.

[the big hammer]

Deepak's Sister?

Deepak June 9 Statement: "...I ate something at home together with my brother Satish and after that I vacuumed the carpet on the inside of my car. (with Satish is meant the suspect S.S. KALPOE; comment reporting officers). My sister Angie was already asleep. My mother was not home, she was working. The man with whom my mother is married, was also at work..."

Who is this person?

I was previously unaware there was a Kalpoe sister.  Is this or could this be Angelena from Cyberzone?

Anybody know...?  TIA.

[Lala'sMom]

Deepak's Sister?

Deepak June 9 Statement: "...I ate something at home together with my brother Satish and after that I vacuumed the carpet on the inside of my car. (with Satish is meant the suspect S.S. KALPOE; comment reporting officers). My sister Angie was already asleep. My mother was not home, she was working. The man with whom my mother is married, was also at work..."

Who is this person?

I was previously unaware there was a Kalpoe sister.  Is this or could this be Angelena from Cyberzone?

Anybody know...?  TIA.

I have always been aware that there was a sister here, just didn't know her name.  I think Mama Kalpoe mentioned it in one of the very first interviews.  I asked about her once before, but we were all busy and no one answered me.  So hold old would this sister be and why is she at home alone, if she is younger?  Does everyone have latchkey kids on that island?