Lively Case Discussion #506 8/4 - 8/6/2006

[Carnut]

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I think we were just looking at different photo repositories on the internet and someone, I think Klaas, FOUND that one.  Not sure about that but you can go to Webshots where it was first located and type in their search something like Aruba or Carlos & Charlie's.

Then she found Bailey's entire photo album if you will recall.  That was not the only photo there.  And they made comments about being so popular, etc.  

But I think that is how it was found.  We did find several things that way.  When you have time, search Webshots and the Snapfish Kodak and other photo sites using relevant keywords for you never know what you will find.  Same thing with keywords in Google, things do pop up from time to time even with words used before.

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Yeah, that Google search thing was why I posted so much stuff early on here, in hopes that all the keywords would be archived in Google so anyone searching would get links to our comments on the case here.

But alas, with the forums troubles, all those links are now broken and no longer available so the effort was futile.

[Anna]

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This made me think of Anita's comments about the underwear and the sexual activity that she shared with Beth and Greta.... when Greta wanted to hide under the table.  Perhaps Anita had read and was discussing the info from the report?  I can see Greta being uncomfortable with that.

What I cannot FATHOM is why Greta seems to have forgotten that in her quest to Free Joran.  I don't get it.

And even in the interview, he gives her a timeline with an hour missing.  She caught it, too, and talked all around it giving him every chance to corrent the glaring mistake and he never did.  Not one word did she say about the missing hour.

Left around 1:00, spent less than an hour with her on the beach believe he says maybe 30- 40 minutes not sure, then he says he got home at 3-3:30 and Ms Greta doesn't bat an eyelash about an hour being missing.  Guess she believes the Karpools drove him and Natalee around for at least an hour?  Not likely!  

[San]

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Were a group of empty "yard" drink cups found somewhere soon after Natalee disappeared?  Were they tested forensically?  Is that why they were asking about Joran's cup?  Did Natalee also have a cup of her own of some sort and was it tested?  Was it free of any traces of drugs?   Was DNA obtained from any of these cups or were the cops just asking questions to give the appearance they were really chekcing out things?

Odd about all the cup questions.  Joran can remember the color of his drink cup but not his girlfriend's last name.  And not Natalee's either according to what he told Beth.

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Why would Joran feel the need to tell us about the cup.  What is the significance of this.

[klaasend]

I think the fact that Satish did not speak a 2nd time is very interesting.  First we heard this.  I am starting to change my opinion of him.  I always thought he was dumber than Steve Croes... Perhaps not.  He is the only one smart enough to keep his mouth shut this whole ordeal.  Why is that?  Perhaps he is more involved than we think?

Yeppers.  I agree that he is either more involved, or not at all.  I go back to the statement, "Freddy must tell the truth," and wonder if Satish was involved at all after Natalee was picked up at C&C.

What about the "white rental car" that followed us?  Can I look in my rearview mirror at night and discern if the car following me is "white" or "cream" or "silver" or "paid for" or "rented?"

I'm not sure how rental cars are marked in Aruba.  Certainly this white rental car story is interesting... I just don't remember hearing about it prior to the infamous Dutch version of AMWanted.  

Back to Freddy... we know he was questioned.  We know they looked at him because he photographed an underage 14 yr old right?  Where did we get the info that he spent the night with Joran?  (Only from his girlfriend on a blog?)  Was this ever on MSM?  Curious.  What else do we know about this little pimp?  Loco man.  Seen in back seat of Deepak's car with porn playing on video.

And BTW, HOW did we score that photo in the 1st place?  Who put it there and WHY???  Had to be a big hint.  Is there any way of knowing who took it and when?

1.  WORK is WAY over rated, lol  

2.  The photo of Deepak, Joran, Freddy, Alyse and Loco Stef was found by Getagrip when she was searching through photobucket.  The photo itself was taken by Bailey Ann.  The webshot site is Bailey Ann's and is still up along with that photo although she has changed some of the verbage.  It's clear she knows people are looking at her site.  I'm hoping the family investigators have talked to her.

http://community.webshots.com/album/305850535ERHiiA/5

[Bearlyhere]

Frijole, I have the same thoughts on Greta as you.  I have been trying to ascertain if Alberto Levy of Aruban fame is the same one who is a Scientologist, and if so, that would lend itself to why Greta changed her mind.  She is more dedicated to Scientology than she is to justice, another reason if we can prove it, that she should be exposed for the fraud she is.

Ooooohhhh!  Now I get it, Detective TG.    

[Ono]

Ono, there is more to the cup than that.  I am trying to figure out what it is.  I am not even sure that anyone asked him for the cup.  I think there is something here that we are not seeing, and wonder what it is.  I bet he knew the color of the guy's jock strap and knew where he was from, what team he played on but could not remember Natalee at all.  

There is something underlying here that we do not know about the cup.  I wish one of the MB kids would pop in here and let us know.

I know you're right about the significance of the reference to the cup...keep that in your always handy & always vital notes...I just don't know what it is either..hold that thought.

[klaasend]

Ono, there is more to the cup than that.  I am trying to figure out what it is.  I am not even sure that anyone asked him for the cup.  I think there is something here that we are not seeing, and wonder what it is.  I bet he knew the color of the guy's jock strap and knew where he was from, what team he played on but could not remember Natalee at all.  

There is something underlying here that we do not know about the cup.  I wish one of the MB kids would pop in here and let us know.

I know you're right about the significance of the reference to the cup...keep that in your always handy & always vital notes...I just don't know what it is either..hold that thought.

One of the cups will have traces of a drug.

[Bearlyhere]

Ono, there is more to the cup than that.  I am trying to figure out what it is.  I am not even sure that anyone asked him for the cup.  I think there is something here that we are not seeing, and wonder what it is.  I bet he knew the color of the guy's jock strap and knew where he was from, what team he played on but could not remember Natalee at all.  

There is something underlying here that we do not know about the cup.  I wish one of the MB kids would pop in here and let us know.

Yes, TG, he does seem to be something of an underwear expert/pervert.  

[Anna]

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I do think Joran mentioned Natalee did NOT have a drink in her hand to show she was not totally drunk and perfectly capable of making the decision to go with the three of them PLUS she had set down her drink somewhere.  How careless of her!  That gives one and all on One Happy to put whatever into it they like, right?

Mentioning the tourist and his own cup, well, if the cup were to be found later and just happen to have a little GHB residue in it, it was that awful old tourist who put it there, right?  Even if the DNA matched Joran, it was still contaminated evidence because it had been in the possession of the evil tourist.

Joran does tell those "designer lies" made to fit the situation!  

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[Frijole]

Klaas - do we still have the maps of the route we think they took that night?

It'd be interesting to take Joran AND Deepak's versions and compare them... they weren't identical.  

Geez - does anyone else wonder if the Frosted Flakes Crew ever bothered to do any of this work?  LOL  Insane.

[terryd270]

Hi everyone!  I just want to know if anything is on tv tonight about the case?  Dang, I wish we had this information like 13 months ago..  What else is out there and how does one go about getting it?  My opinion of you guys has always been high and reading these post, shows me that your really are a bunch of smart and caring people..  CYA later alligator..

[Tylergal]

Ono, there is more to the cup than that.  I am trying to figure out what it is.  I am not even sure that anyone asked him for the cup.  I think there is something here that we are not seeing, and wonder what it is.  I bet he knew the color of the guy's jock strap and knew where he was from, what team he played on but could not remember Natalee at all.  

There is something underlying here that we do not know about the cup.  I wish one of the MB kids would pop in here and let us know.

I know you're right about the significance of the reference to the cup...keep that in your always handy & always vital notes...I just don't know what it is either..hold that thought.

One of the cups will have traces of a drug.

What I am trying to ascertain is if he is trying to say the kid who "wanted his cup," had drugs, as in making anyone testing the cup, think the "Amerian Kid" put the drugs in his own cup.  I don't think either of the MB kids would have been so hard up for a cup they would have wanted a second-hand cup.  I have a friend, formerly of MB, who swears she divorced her husband because every time he would walk in the door, he would pick up her cup/bottle/glass/can  and start drinking from it and it was a habit she detested and she divorced him.  I seriously doubt that the reason, but there was probably an understated reason she did not like him drinking from her container.

[Frijole]

Hi everyone!  I just want to know if anything is on tv tonight about the case?  Dang, I wish we had this information like 13 months ago..  What else is out there and how does one go about getting it?  My opinion of you guys has always been high and reading these post, shows me that your really are a bunch of smart and caring people..  CYA later alligator..

Yeah Terry --- you just thought we were a bunch of good looking monkeys right?  lol

[klaasend]

Klaas - do we still have the maps of the route we think they took that night?

It'd be interesting to take Joran AND Deepak's versions and compare them... they weren't identical.  

Geez - does anyone else wonder if the Frosted Flakes Crew ever bothered to do any of this work?  LOL  Insane.

After the thread change I'm going to create a new map based on Joran's statement.  It's different from what we had.

[Tylergal]

Klaas - do we still have the maps of the route we think they took that night?

It'd be interesting to take Joran AND Deepak's versions and compare them... they weren't identical.  

That's absolutely right.  They were definitely not identical.

Geez - does anyone else wonder if the Frosted Flakes Crew ever bothered to do any of this work?  LOL  Insane.

[Frijole]

Klaas - do we still have the maps of the route we think they took that night?

It'd be interesting to take Joran AND Deepak's versions and compare them... they weren't identical.  

Geez - does anyone else wonder if the Frosted Flakes Crew ever bothered to do any of this work?  LOL  Insane.

After the thread change I'm going to create a new map based on Joran's statement.  It's different from what we had.

Ours is the accurate one.  

[klaasend]

Hi everyone!  I just want to know if anything is on tv tonight about the case?  Dang, I wish we had this information like 13 months ago..  What else is out there and how does one go about getting it?  My opinion of you guys has always been high and reading these post, shows me that your really are a bunch of smart and caring people..  CYA later alligator..

Terryd - last night The Lineup sounded like it was going to have something tonight as well, but I'm not sure.

[Kat_Gram]

Anna, we just can't take this lying down. To me, that judge from ny is every bit as culpable and corrupt as Smid and PVDS.

I think that we are going to have to fight back hard, and LOUD, against all those who want this case to go away. We are going to get nowhere at all if we don't seek redress for all the setbacks that family has endured. What is being done to them is plain WRONG and I am sick of it.

SB, I think that would be detrimental to the case to boycott New York as all the big media are in NYC and they have helped Beth and the family immensely.  We cannot boycott our largest city in the country because we find some judge offensive.  NYC has been a big player in the War on Terror and continues to be.  Nobody has suffered more nor worked harder than the citizens who are pro-war-on-terror than Rudy and his constituency.  Suffice it to say, we cannot boycott our country when we have a president we do not like or a state when we have a governor we do not like.

I agree. Plus, don't want to antagonize Americans.
This is gossip I read  from a good source. In the Ramirez family it was felt that that Nadira just married Mr. Ramirez to get the papers so she could stay in Aruba. She is not liked by many in the family.

[Bearlyhere]

Klaas - do we still have the maps of the route we think they took that night?

It'd be interesting to take Joran AND Deepak's versions and compare them... they weren't identical.  

Geez - does anyone else wonder if the Frosted Flakes Crew ever bothered to do any of this work?  LOL  Insane.

I wonder if we should send them a case of Frosted Flakes so they can get to work.  

[Ono]

[
This made me think of Anita's comments about the underwear and the sexual activity that she shared with Beth and Greta.... when Greta wanted to hide under the table.  Perhaps Anita had read and was discussing the info from the report?  I can see Greta being uncomfortable with that.

What I cannot FATHOM is why Greta seems to have forgotten that in her quest to Free Joran.  I don't get it.

And even in the interview, he gives her a timeline with an hour missing.  She caught it, too, and talked all around it giving him every chance to corrent the glaring mistake and he never did.  Not one word did she say about the missing hour.

Left around 1:00, spent less than an hour with her on the beach believe he says maybe 30- 40 minutes not sure, then he says he got home at 3-3:30 and Ms Greta doesn't bat an eyelash about an hour being missing.  Guess she believes the Karpools drove him and Natalee around for at least an hour?  Not likely!  

Well...I was originally buying into her "like a depostion" description of the interview, (she touted this several times beforehand on different days leading up to that night) but then, right before her program aired, she appeared on Hannity & Colmes and when questioned by Sean what she thought, she announced her infamous "I'm inclined to believe him" stink bomb.  So, her sitting there and just firing questions to Joran was as in a deposition, but her un-professional 'frosting the cake' beforehand certainly was out of the ordinary.  That was when I began to look at Greta in an entirely different light...I am still wondering.