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Author Topic: Wonder Woman's email: debate it here  (Read 26028 times)
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absolut
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2005, 11:55:06 AM »

Quote from: "kzambron"
Where are the other 2 emails posted at?


Toward the top of this thread, like post 2 and 5.
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Catriana
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2005, 12:29:17 PM »

I have a question.   Doesn't anyone believe in PARAGRAPHS anymore?

OH MY, that was difficult to read.  

Oh, I vote .. HOAX.   Interesting that no header information was provided.
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2005, 01:06:06 PM »

My take...the emails are BS.  If someone really had emails like that they wouldn't be so cryptic and vague.  Heck, they probably wouldn't even post them if they had half a brain and knew that it may not be a good idea. WW is someone who walks into a room and has to try and get everyone to stop what they're doing and pay attention to her.  The MO of a person like this is to trow out the bait...get everyone's attention and then try to keep everyone clammoring around them by just throwing out little mysterious and vague tidbits here and there to raise more questions so as to continue increasing the attention paid to them.  I've seen it MANY MANY MANY times in MANY MANY MANY chat rooms.
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absolut
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« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2005, 01:12:46 PM »

Quote from: "RichinTx"
My take...the emails are BS.  If someone really had emails like that they wouldn't be so cryptic and vague.  Heck, they probably wouldn't even post them if they had half a brain and knew that it may not be a good idea. WW is someone who walks into a room and has to try and get everyone to stop what they're doing and pay attention to her.  The MO of a person like this is to trow out the bait...get everyone's attention and then try to keep everyone clammoring around them by just throwing out little mysterious and vague tidbits here and there to raise more questions so as to continue increasing the attention paid to them.  I've seen it MANY MANY MANY times in MANY MANY MANY chat rooms.


Cept WW has been a member here since day 1, June 13th. and has 108 post. So she didn't just walk in and throw this in.
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RichinTx
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« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2005, 01:22:07 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RichinTx"
My take...the emails are BS.  If someone really had emails like that they wouldn't be so cryptic and vague.  Heck, they probably wouldn't even post them if they had half a brain and knew that it may not be a good idea. WW is someone who walks into a room and has to try and get everyone to stop what they're doing and pay attention to her.  The MO of a person like this is to trow out the bait...get everyone's attention and then try to keep everyone clammoring around them by just throwing out little mysterious and vague tidbits here and there to raise more questions so as to continue increasing the attention paid to them.  I've seen it MANY MANY MANY times in MANY MANY MANY chat rooms.


Cept WW has been a member here since day 1, June 13th. and has 108 post. So she didn't just walk in and throw this in.


I wasn't intending to imply that she only recently showed up but that the 'emails' were intended to turn the atmosphere around here to "Hi, WW", "Where's WW", "WW, do you have anymore info." "Welcome back, WW", "How are you doing today WW, heard anything else."  "Wow, that theory really fits with WW emails."  etc,etc,etc,  She probably just wants everyone to focus on her like they did on Dash, arubagirl, americaninaruba, etc.  Think about it, what are the chances that someone who actually has emails from Deepak are going to post them on some random internet forum?
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absolut
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« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2005, 01:23:58 PM »

Quote from: "RichinTx"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RichinTx"
My take...the emails are BS.  If someone really had emails like that they wouldn't be so cryptic and vague.  Heck, they probably wouldn't even post them if they had half a brain and knew that it may not be a good idea. WW is someone who walks into a room and has to try and get everyone to stop what they're doing and pay attention to her.  The MO of a person like this is to trow out the bait...get everyone's attention and then try to keep everyone clammoring around them by just throwing out little mysterious and vague tidbits here and there to raise more questions so as to continue increasing the attention paid to them.  I've seen it MANY MANY MANY times in MANY MANY MANY chat rooms.


Cept WW has been a member here since day 1, June 13th. and has 108 post. So she didn't just walk in and throw this in.


Ok I had not thought about a selfish angle to it.

I wasn't intending to imply that she only recently showed up but that the 'emails' were intended to turn the atmoshphere around here to "Hi, WW", "Where's WW", "WW, do you have anymore info." "Welcome back, WW", "How are you doing today WW, heard anything else."  "Wow, that theory really fits with WW emails."  etc,etc,etc,  She probably just wants everyone to focus on her like they did on Dash, arubagirl, americaninaruba, etc.
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RB
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« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2005, 02:08:53 PM »

rich, those "emails" are also being passed around on newsgroups.  Use your newsgroup reader and get them - just look for the alt. groups with Natalee Holloway, missing adults, Aruba and you'll find them.
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Gingerkitty
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« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2005, 03:25:16 PM »

Quote from: "Sabrina"
Having had some training in document examination, I will say that I am reasonably certain  this email is fraudulant.


I'm also curious how you based this conclusion. I understand those who are dubious, of course. This is the INternet, where anyone can post anything.  But, Wonder WOmen seemed sincere, and it took coaxing for her to even print the entire email. For me, that gave her some credibility.


What impressed me about the email was it's stunning revelation of Joran sneaking out of the house.  By itself, this wouldn't be meaningful, but, ironically, it was posted before Greta's show last night, where it was disclosed that JVDS had indeed snuck out. This one point, alone, was unforeseen by any hoaxter. It seemed to validate the email, since, that was the first time it was disclosed that Joran snuck out.

If the email was made up, the person had to be psychic.
How does anyone explain that?

The syntax, grammar, spelling, and vernacular of the email seemed consistent with an Aruban teen writing to an American, and trying to be fluent. Most Arubans are multi-lingual, but, that doesn't mean they are grammatically correct, or spell very well. I have friends who have gone to top-notch schools, and can't spell.

In fact, some of the educated Arubans interviewed by the cable shows, use a dialectal English, even though they are otherwise extremely fluent.  

This is just my opinion, mind you, but, I feel that Deepak may have been the author of those emails. That doesn't mean I believe he is necessarily innocent. He may have been rehearsing his story, and it does seem to be similar to the one told to the police.

But, we also have to keep an open-mind about the brothers, Steven Croes, and Joren VDS, apart from the email. They have not been convicted, and they may be just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I know it's easier to affix blame when something horrible happens, but, we don't know all the facts yet.

IMO
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skymom
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« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2005, 04:06:16 PM »

The real clincher for me on this is that this "email" is allegedly from Deepak, who talks about going to the casino with Joran on the first Monday Natalee was missing, and meeting up with Natalee's mom, and others, at the VDS home afterward (according to accounts, Joran and the "brother" were found leaning on the silver car when Natalee's Mom and PVDS pulled up).  Problem is, that the brother who was leaning on the car with Joran (according to the account on riehlworldview.com) was SATISH, not DEEPAK.

So either Riehl World View is wrong, or this letter is bogus.  I vote for the latter.

Skymom (a lurker, who tries to get up to date before posting, but have found it impossible to keep up, so I did run through this thread before posting this at least!   Smile )
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dutch bird
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« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2005, 04:55:48 PM »

I (ofcourse am not 100% sure) think the email is fake.
I am Dutch  ( lawyer) and have visited Aruba. I think that the language used in the e-mail is way too "american" if you know what I mean.
It looks as if the author deliberately tried to make certain spelling mistakes.
By the way police is called politie in dutch. joran is dutch and  i would guess that they spoke dutch ( and american) to each other. I do agree with the argument that they probably attend international schools.
Apart from the above, the email is WAY too detailed for a boy that age who is suspected of something like that, he mentions exact times 3 drinks etc. The theory about the exstacy pills or drug in drink sounds the most plausible to me.  exstacy is used a lot among teens and also on the dutch antilles ( curacao and aruba) It is also not so safe as everyone claims.
A lot of my friends who visited recently were either robbed or followed at night etc..

Although of course mr van der slooten ( who is in training to be a judge) did not "get rid of the body" . I would say it is advisable in that situation to assist your son in not saying to much to everybody. literally the phrase that I know of American series ( you are under arrest everything you say can and will be used against you) will still be be in place Under Dutch law the fact that he is 17 ( nearly 18) probably won't save him IF he is guilty.
forgive me if the above is already discussed  i had no patience to read everything..
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2005, 05:53:05 PM »

Hmmm...their official statements were in Dutch, and apparently have been viewed by Newsday and perhaps other outlets. I say the letters are either the recreation from news stories or other sources:

Quote
In their statements to police, which were shown to Newsday and translated verbally from Dutch, the Kalpoes said they drove Holloway, extremely drunk, to the California Lighthouse, a romantic spot on Aruba's northern tip, as she and van der Sloot fooled around in the back seat. They said she stumbled out at the Holiday Inn, a few miles away, where a black security guard wearing black and carrying a walkie-talkie approached her.

But the brothers disagreed on details such as who had paid for their drinks, and who got separated from whom at Carlos 'N Charlie's before meeting back at the car. They differed on whether van der Sloot brushed Holloway off or danced with her. They said van der Sloot asked her where she was staying, though witnesses said the two had met at her hotel. Yet despite the inconsistencies, they remained free while police burst into the homes of two black security guards from the town of San Nicolas and arrested them.
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-woarub204312713jun20,0,2234101.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines



[/quote]
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the big hammer
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« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2005, 06:06:45 PM »

gee, i don't know...

all the news reports state that on the first nite deepak and joran met the holloways' at the VDS residence, the police and the holloway's returned with papa VDS after searching the casinos and returned to VDS residence to "find" joran and Satish stading there...

"ALL" news reports have stated this sequence.

But WW e-mail from deepak says different, in fact very different.

Guess deepak couldn't get this straight either  --  or it's just a hoax and author jorgot to vet this "seemingly" minor detail.
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pily
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« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2005, 06:11:32 PM »

I don't think WW made this up.  I am not sure if the email is a hoax or not.  If it is a hoax, the story it tells is not too bad.  Have any one here read "Blink"?  It's an interesting book about how our minds make decisions about something being true or false, real or fake, in a matter of split seconds.  It's possible that the message was typed and spread by a friend of Deepak's, based on what he told him/her, and then sent out  there to try to "clean" his name.  Remember that these guys were arrested and then let go and that this is a big scandal.  The story makes a lot of sense in those terms.  

As for the theory Scott posted, I don't think Natalee was drugged by these guys.  Or maybe she consented to taking an X pill from these guys not knowing what it would do to her.  Remember, as mature, responsible, overall great person she is or was, the pre-frontal cortex of an 18 yr. old is still maturing and that is exactly the region that enables us to make decisions based on possible consequences and repercusions.  In the PFC the biases the local competitive interactions between mutually incompatible thoughts or actions are solved. The PFC is critical in situations in which a dominant, but inappropriate, response must be inhibited.  This explains why in all cultures parents naturally restrain their teens.  The PFC develops as we learn about moral sensibilities and exercising self-restraint and have caring and responsible parenting as guides.  
 Still at 18, the pull of "I want this cute guy to like me and think I'm cool," topped with the idyllic setting of a Caribbean island, and a record of being so well-behaved for so long, can be a lot stronger than knowing "this is stupid and risky."  We've all done stupid things!  A woman was raped on the subway in NYC last week.  She was waiting for a train at 3 am.  A guy grabbed her and dragged her to a corner, while the conductor of an incoming train saw the scene and did nothing to stop it.  The train operator say all they could do was call the police, which they did, but by the time the cops got there, it was too late.  Now you hear most people blaming the victim for taking the train in NY at 3 am.  I don't know how old she was.  My point is we all make stupid decisions sometimes, but we are at greater risk of doing so when we are in our teens and without supervision.

I think N was probably not a drinker and got pretty sick with just 2-3 drinks.  Afterall it was the last night of her vacation.  I do think her death was accidental and that these guys are covering it up, which is a crime.  There is a small possibility they left her and someone else is responsible for her vanishing.  I'd be shocked if JVDS turns out to be a cold blooded murderer.  And I'd be shocked to hear that he raped her.  As for Natalee, she really seems to be a good, clean, over-all nice person, yet  inexperienced and with some pretty bad luck.  I pray for her and for her parents.  Sad
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2005, 06:17:13 PM »

Quote from: "RichinTx"
My take...the emails are BS.  If someone really had emails like that they wouldn't be so cryptic and vague.  Heck, they probably wouldn't even post them if they had half a brain and knew that it may not be a good idea. WW is someone who walks into a room and has to try and get everyone to stop what they're doing and pay attention to her.  The MO of a person like this is to trow out the bait...get everyone's attention and then try to keep everyone clammoring around them by just throwing out little mysterious and vague tidbits here and there to raise more questions so as to continue increasing the attention paid to them.  I've seen it MANY MANY MANY times in MANY MANY MANY chat rooms.


You are sadly mistaken.....to each his own I guess
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Sabrina
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« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2005, 06:48:14 PM »

Quote from: "dutch bird"
I (ofcourse am not 100% sure) think the email is fake.

It looks as if the author deliberately tried to make certain spelling mistakes.


Exactly. And there are way too many details in the letter for it to be a legit account to a friend of what happened.

Not being familiar with the Dutch legal system, I wonder if  the person who released it could be held in contempt or something similar-- since the Dutch law seems to prohibit the releasing of any information.

If it's legit, surely the recipiant turned it over to law enforcement?
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columbo
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« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2005, 08:05:21 PM »

>>What impressed me about the email was it's stunning revelation of Joran sneaking out of the house. By itself, this wouldn't be meaningful, but, ironically, it was posted before Greta's show last night, where it was disclosed that JVDS had indeed snuck out. This one point, alone, was unforeseen by any hoaxter. It seemed to validate the email, since, that was the first time it was disclosed that Joran snuck out.

If the email was made up, the person had to be psychic.
How does anyone explain that? <<<

Same here Kitty, I found it stunning as well. This email coraberated everything that was reported by Greta last night, yet the email is (supossedly) written 2 weeks ago.

Another reason I feel the email may be real:

I've been to Aruba many times. The people of Aruba, in my opinion, are the most genunine people I've ever encountered. They have such an innocence about them, its hard to explain (being from the US), but their way of life and the way they speak is very simple, innocent and truthful. I get thet same feeling about this letter. It may be hard for some of us who are born and raised in this country to find someone who speaks so innocently and freely believable. I DO find it believable because I've spent time on the Island and get a familiar "feel" why he in divulging so much information. That is his nature, as an Aruban....to speak the truth.

Funny how the attorney here posted that he felt the letter had an "American" flavor to it. I feel the opposite....it has an "Aruban" feel to it. Smile

Finally, if it is a hoax, the person who "made it up" should be commited to a mental institution! Smile Only a lunatic would waste his/her time recounting every step and minute detail of what would be Deepoke's version of the events of that night! Honestly, who in their right mind would take the time to write out such a detailed account of something they have nothing to do with??
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2005, 08:08:03 PM »

Quote from: "columbo"
>>What impressed me about the email was it's stunning revelation of Joran sneaking out of the house. By itself, this wouldn't be meaningful, but, ironically, it was posted before Greta's show last night, where it was disclosed that JVDS had indeed snuck out. This one point, alone, was unforeseen by any hoaxter. It seemed to validate the email, since, that was the first time it was disclosed that Joran snuck out.

If the email was made up, the person had to be psychic.
How does anyone explain that? <<<

Same here Kitty, I found it stunning as well. This email coraberated everything that was reported by Greta last night, yet the email is (supossedly) written 2 weeks ago.

Another reason I feel the email may be real:

I've been to Aruba many times. The people of Aruba, in my opinion, are the most genunine people I've ever encountered. They have such an innocence about them, its hard to explain (being from the US), but their way of life and the way they speak is very simple, innocent and truthful. I get thet same feeling about this letter. It may be hard for some of us who are born and raised in this country to find someone who speaks so innocently and freely believable. I DO find it believable because I've spent time on the Island and get a familiar "feel" why he in divulging so much information. That is his nature, as an Aruban....to speak the truth.

Funny how the attorney here posted that he felt the letter had an "American" flavor to it. I feel the opposite....it has an "Aruban" feel to it. Smile

Finally, if it is a hoax, the person who "made it up" should be commited to a mental institution! Smile Only a lunatic would waste his/her time recounting every step and minute detail of what would be Deepoke's version of the events of that night! Honestly, who in their right mind would take the time to write out such a detailed account of something they have nothing to do with??


TY Columbo, Love you, love your show Wink
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jane
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« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2005, 08:11:09 PM »

Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Hmmm...their official statements were in Dutch, and apparently have been viewed by Newsday and perhaps other outlets. I say the letters are either the recreation from news stories or other sources:

In their statements to police, which were shown to Newsday and translated verbally from Dutch, the Kalpoes said they drove Holloway, extremely drunk, to the California Lighthouse, a romantic spot on Aruba's northern tip, as she and van der Sloot fooled around in the back seat. They said she stumbled out at the Holiday Inn, a few miles away, where a black security guard wearing black and carrying a walkie-talkie approached her.

But the brothers disagreed on details such as who had paid for their drinks, and who got separated from whom at Carlos 'N Charlie's before meeting back at the car. They differed on whether van der Sloot brushed Holloway off or danced with her. They said van der Sloot asked her where she was staying, though witnesses said the two had met at her hotel. Yet despite the inconsistencies, they remained free while police burst into the homes of two black security guards from the town of San Nicolas and arrested them.
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-woarub204312713jun20,0,2234101.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines


It sounds like the email was written to answer some of the questions raised in this news article. I read it has been posted to the alt newsgroups as well. It doesn't appear to have any answers about what happened to Natalee, unfortunately. Thanks for posting it, though, Wonder Woman. It was interesting to read.
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columbo
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« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2005, 08:23:01 PM »

TY Columbo, Love you, love your show

Your Welcome Wonder Woman  Wink  I came out of retirement for this case!  Wink  Twisted Evil  Very Happy
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ChytownEd
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« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2005, 08:24:45 PM »

Quote from: "skymom"
Problem is, that the brother who was leaning on the car with Joran (according to the account on riehlworldview.com) was SATISH, not DEEPAK.


As the kids say, exactamundo! And this isn't the only inconsistency.

I can believe that this came from an Aruban (one of the people who have been questioned, or a friend or relative of a suspect) - but the content is  bogus through and through.

In addition to Skymom's observation,  "Deepak" complains of being all over the news on June 6. I don't think the media had the Kalpoes' names yet. And he says, or uses words to the effect that, "just as reported, we were in my car. " But in fact, until only a few days ago, no one was quite sure whose car it was - and the media was reporting over and over that it was Joran's. On June 6, we didn't know Deepak's name, and certainly didn't know the car was his!

This was probably patched together by some kid in Aruba. As I mentioned in my post on Breaking News #17, someone also posted that the Max Arends taken in wasn't the one Joran knew from the International School, but someone else entirely - a street racer named Maxito Arendsz. Whereas, we all know by now that it certainly was the Max from the school.

(And, anyway, I suspect that the street racer is one and the same as the Max Arends who just graduated from the Internat. School. Don't know how he's able to drive so young - maybe it's legal on a track, or maybe he lied about his age, or got his parents' permission. On an island where casinos and clubs have such a laid-back attitude about carding, I wouldn't be surprised.)

I don't buy that Natalee dropped $360 (how does "Deepak" happen to remember the exact amount?), or "begged Joran to come to CNC's." And if she did dance on the stage with him at CNC's, her friends would remember.

Pure malarky.
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