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Author Topic: RBN #18 - 6/22/05  (Read 328182 times)
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wwizard
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« Reply #1280 on: June 23, 2005, 08:54:56 AM »

"......they WILL find you unless they think you're already dead."


---Hans in the movie "DIEHARD"
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Professor
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« Reply #1281 on: June 23, 2005, 08:55:09 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
fyi  if the only basis of the armchair remote narcissism psychonalisis is the hair plug let it be known this question was collectively parsed overnight by monkey brain power including in depth photo analysis and it was the general consensus that there are no hair plugs.  hair plug poster invoked father's baldness as further proof that the kid inherited baldness from dad but this trait is inherited through the female so that did not wash.  Appearance was attributed to jelled spiked hair combed forward.   in one picture of Joran and his friends they all had the same hairdo and it is unlikely that they are all premature implantees.


What about the rest of the profile? Sounds to me like it fits Joran to a tee.
And that could explain why his friends all say, Hey, he's a great guy. He couldn't do something like this. They said the same thing about Ted Bundy, as I recall.
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #1282 on: June 23, 2005, 08:55:15 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
LAST NIGHT MONKEY POWER LEARNED THAT THERE WERE SPECIAL IMPORTED SECURITY GUARDS FOR THE CONCERT AND THEY STAYED AT THE HI, AND THEY WORE BLACK UNIFORMS WITH A BIG SECURITY ON THEM.  THEY LEFT THE NEXT DAY WITH THE TOURING ARTISTS AND THEIR COSTUMES AND EQUIPMENT SO MAY NOT HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED.


boy r u guys good!!!!
morning Iquitos....r u on DAG??
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peace to all
iquitos
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« Reply #1283 on: June 23, 2005, 08:55:39 AM »

Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "dandylion"
When did we hear about "a witness seing 2 people dragging a girl away"?  Is this a rumor or reported on the news?


TWO RELEVANT RUMORS ARE NOT CONFIRMED

-A SCUFFLE ON THE MARIOTT BEACH WITH A HYSTERICAL WOMAN

-A CAR TAKING A HYSTERICAL WOMAN FROM IN FRONT OF HI (GUY REPORTED IT WAS BLOWN OFF)  WAS THE GUY STEVE?


I have been in here on and off for 2 weeks and this second statment I was never aware of unless it is an extension or rewrite of the first.
 

THESE TWO ARE FROM THE SAME SOURCE, ARUBA RADIO.  I MYSELF POSTED IT FROM MY TRANSCRIPTION OF THE FM TOP  95.1 BROADCAST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO REVIEWING OTHER POSSIBILITIES BASED ON INFORMATION THE SPEAKER RECEIVED FROM PEOPLE ON ARUBA.  LISTEN TO THE ARUBANS.  THERE ARE NO SECRETS ON A SMALL ISLAND
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iquitos
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« Reply #1284 on: June 23, 2005, 08:56:33 AM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "iquitos"
LAST NIGHT MONKEY POWER LEARNED THAT THERE WERE SPECIAL IMPORTED SECURITY GUARDS FOR THE CONCERT AND THEY STAYED AT THE HI, AND THEY WORE BLACK UNIFORMS WITH A BIG SECURITY ON THEM.  THEY LEFT THE NEXT DAY WITH THE TOURING ARTISTS AND THEIR COSTUMES AND EQUIPMENT SO MAY NOT HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED.


boy r u guys good!!!!
morning Iquitos....r u on DAG??


ON THE RADIO, NOTHING TO REPORT
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #1285 on: June 23, 2005, 08:56:53 AM »

Quote from: "wwizard"
"......they WILL find you unless they think you're already dead."


---Hans in the movie "DIEHARD"



Good morning!!!   I can only play with u for a little while today wizzzz....
so wuz up man??
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peace to all
Kelly
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« Reply #1286 on: June 23, 2005, 08:58:46 AM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "dandylion"
When did we hear about "a witness seing 2 people dragging a girl away"?  Is this a rumor or reported on the news?


I never heard this...and who would witneess that and not come out on it til now???


Mornin all............ just got in to work and hopped right on.  Whats this im reading about a "witness" seein someone being dragged? Remember if this has already been discussed, clarified or foudn to be false, i just got on this mornin so i have not read the previous posts yet..so sorry if i am asking something that has been already discussed!
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Kelly
chloe2
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« Reply #1287 on: June 23, 2005, 08:58:57 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"

 A narcissist is usually the life of the party. He/she makes friends easily, and is skillful at manipulating other people to get what he/she desires. He/she is vain and looks out for Numero Uno at all times. He/she sees other people as inanimate objects, to be manipulated.


Actually, Deepak is the one who was described as the guy 'who gets what he wants.'

To another point, for those people who keep postulating that Natalee ran away and quoting the "Freebird" song she quoted in her yearbook -- I would assume if her desire was truly to get away, she would have chosen an out of state college. She got practically a full scholarship to Univeristy of Alabama. I'm sure she was eligible for scholarships at plenty of other schools.
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momto5
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« Reply #1288 on: June 23, 2005, 08:59:37 AM »

<<<<Well, according to my sources, most narcissists are straight-out-of-the-box narcissists, and I believe that Joran could be one of them. A comment that his mother made in her interview troubled me. She said that, if Natalee were found alive she would "kick her butt for all the trouble she has caused [the van der Sloot family.]" This commenty was repeated by a number of posts overnight. This would be the classic response of a narcissistic mother, except that she would be more careful not to say it in public.>>>
Yes alot of ppl with NPD are "straight out of the box" sorts. Her comment bothered me as well. I even did tell my husband I thought he might have NPD. I try and stay open though bc ever since having to deal with someone directly with it, I tend to think I see it in everyone if that makes any sense.
Also one point I would like to bring up. Our therapist back then told me since I had a son with a father with NPD I would have to watch him more closely to see if he also develops the disorder. There is alot of debate whether it is inherited or learned or both. One comment that struck me cold was hearing her say her son wasnt arrogant he was confident. My ex used to say something similiar about himself....
Anyway I was just trying to give a lil info based on what I have learned over the yrs.
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Compananzi
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« Reply #1289 on: June 23, 2005, 08:59:57 AM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "JessesMomEXACTLY - now imagine how many people were in the area for the concert series - - all over the beaches hanging out all night long i am sure.....see a young,good-loking, blonde totally wrecked out of her mind---have a hotel room steps away, possibly even a different hotel(radisson, marriot, aruba grand, wyndham, hyatt, HI, and playa linda resort are all within walking distance of each other and the concert)

I keep going back to the witness who saw 2 people dragging a girl away or something similar on one of those beaches .... where is that "witness"?[/quote


I think the boys were out with Natalee....and other guys somehow got involved.  Maybe they took her (unconscious??) away from the 3...and the 3 weren't tough enough to fight for her.  (They probably had their own reasons for the fear - drug dealers, local nut cases, crazies from the concert/festival with guns or weapons, who knows.)  

I can't stop thinking about the statement:  Something bad happened.  To me, that means only a couple of things:  The above scenario, or accidental death due to an overdose.  There's probably others...  That sentence just doesn't fit with the 3 killing her intentionally.



so maybe it is another 1/2 truth from joran...2 people did perhaps drag her away but not from the beach???



Judging from the misinformation that is floating around, or the subtle twisting or translation of hearsay.. here is my version of how something Bad Happenned came about...

Police 1:  Natalee is still missing, you were the last to see her.  Where is she?
Joran: I left her on the beach, that is the last time I saw her.
Police 1: Your lying! You psycho where i s Natalee?
Joran: I don't Know, I don't know
Police 1: Well what you think happened with her?
Joran: I don't know, maybe something bad happened with her afterwards..

Five hours later Police 1, steps out, gets mugged from the American Press.

Press: Did the suspect confess?
Police: no.
Press: Did the suspect say where Natalee is?
Police: no
Press: What does the suspect think happened with Natalee.
Police:  I don't know, but I think he thinks something bad happened to Natalee.

AP press, Fox News: Suspect confesses, "Something Bad Happened" to Natalee.
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #1290 on: June 23, 2005, 09:01:07 AM »

Quote from: "momto5"
<<<<Well, according to my sources, most narcissists are straight-out-of-the-box narcissists, and I believe that Joran could be one of them. A comment that his mother made in her interview troubled me. She said that, if Natalee were found alive she would "kick her butt for all the trouble she has caused [the van der Sloot family.]" This commenty was repeated by a number of posts overnight. This would be the classic response of a narcissistic mother, except that she would be more careful not to say it in public.>>>
Yes alot of ppl with NPD are "straight out of the box" sorts. Her comment bothered me as well. I even did tell my husband I thought he might have NPD. I try and stay open though bc ever since having to deal with someone directly with it, I tend to think I see it in everyone if that makes any sense.
Also one point I would like to bring up. Our therapist back then told me since I had a son with a father with NPD I would have to watch him more closely to see if he also develops the disorder. There is alot of debate whether it is inherited or learned or both. One comment that struck me cold was hearing her say her son wasnt arrogant he was confident. My ex used to say something similiar about himself....
Anyway I was just trying to give a lil info based on what I have learned over the yrs.


yeah i thought my ex was anal...but he turned out to be an a**hole.
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Kelly
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« Reply #1291 on: June 23, 2005, 09:02:55 AM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "JessesMomEXACTLY - now imagine how many people were in the area for the concert series - - all over the beaches hanging out all night long i am sure.....see a young,good-loking, blonde totally wrecked out of her mind---have a hotel room steps away, possibly even a different hotel(radisson, marriot, aruba grand, wyndham, hyatt, HI, and playa linda resort are all within walking distance of each other and the concert)

I keep going back to the witness who saw 2 people dragging a girl away or something similar on one of those beaches .... where is that "witness"?[/quote


I think the boys were out with Natalee....and other guys somehow got involved.  Maybe they took her (unconscious??) away from the 3...and the 3 weren't tough enough to fight for her.  (They probably had their own reasons for the fear - drug dealers, local nut cases, crazies from the concert/festival with guns or weapons, who knows.)  

I can't stop thinking about the statement:  Something bad happened.  To me, that means only a couple of things:  The above scenario, or accidental death due to an overdose.  There's probably others...  That sentence just doesn't fit with the 3 killing her intentionally.



so maybe it is another 1/2 truth from joran...2 people did perhaps drag her away but not from the beach???



Judging from the misinformation that is floating around, or the subtle twisting or translation of hearsay.. here is my version of how something Bad Happenned came about...

Police 1:  Natalee is still missing, you were the last to see her.  Where is she?
Joran: I left her on the beach, that is the last time I saw her.
Police 1: Your lying! You psycho where i s Natalee?
Joran: I don't Know, I don't know
Police 1: Well what you think happened with her?
Joran: I don't know, maybe something bad happened with her afterwards..

Five hours later Police 1, steps out, gets mugged from the American Press.

Press: Did the suspect confess?
Police: no.
Press: Did the suspect say where Natalee is?
Police: no
Press: What does the suspect think happened with Natalee.
Police:  I don't know, but I think he thinks something bad happened to Natalee.

AP press, Fox News: Suspect confesses, "Something Bad Happened" to Natalee.


then why wouldnt joran tell the police if that scenario occured..his is being accused of murder// so at this point........ drugging a girl and leavin her on a beach or whatever is a lot less of a charge than murder.i just dont undersrtand why he wouldnt just say ok ok ok ......this is what happened.......it has to be because he was "involved"
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Kelly
Sleeks
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« Reply #1292 on: June 23, 2005, 09:03:22 AM »

SAD TO SAY Nothing on the NY news
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Professor
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« Reply #1293 on: June 23, 2005, 09:04:11 AM »

Quote from: "UGAmom"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "momto5"
Hey all, thought Id pop in and say good morning. Trying to catch up after having to leave the board yesterday (for the real world). I did watch the fox news greta show and hannity though.
I see someone is talking about NPD (narcisstic personality disorder). I thought I would post a couple of links on the disorder if you dont mind. My ex who kidnapped my son was diagnosed with this disorder while we were married. It only effects less then 10% of the known population however I was also told many go undiagnosed. Most of those diagnosed are men, and the onset is generally during teen yrs or early adulthood. It is usually pretty hard to spot someone with the disorder as they tend to blend into society quite well. The fact they do not "feel" emotions the same way we do, and are pretty smart, and able to cover that emotional problem up makes it hard to tell who has it. I could really go on and on about the disorder since I have made myself aware of the ins and outs of dealing with someone with the disorder.
http://samvak.tripod.com/npdglance.html

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html

Ok well I hope I can keep up today but doubt I will. I have real life stuff again today


Let me guess. The description I gave above fits your ex to a tee. Correct?

Actually no. But I think that with personality disorders that usually there is more to them then just the one that is diagnosed if that makes any sense. And trying to fit any one person into a box of diagnosis doesnt always help.


Well, according to my sources, most narcissists are straight-out-of-the-box narcissists, and I believe that Joran could be one of them. A comment that his mother made in her interview troubled me. She said that, if Natalee were found alive she would "kick her butt for all the trouble she has caused [the van der Sloot family.]" This commenty was repeated by a number of posts overnight. This would be the classic response of a narcissistic mother, except that she would be more careful not to say it in public.


My understanding was that Joran was saying that at school.  The mom was repeating what Joran had said and that the parents had to tell him to stop running his mouth.


Thanks for clarifying, but it still fits the classic pattern of a narcissistic family. After all, this is a girl about whom they all have something to hide.
We don't know what it is, but they didn't help Natalee on the night she disappeared.
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Icegirl
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« Reply #1294 on: June 23, 2005, 09:04:12 AM »

Quote from: "UGAmom"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "TexasSugarfoot"
I was prepared to hate JVDS and the brothers. When they were taken into custody, I, like many others, was of the opinion that they were the last seen with NH so they must have something to do with her disappearance. I looked at all the pictures and web pages about them. My thoughts were that they were a bunch of little smart ass punks with their gang signs and partying. I still think they're little smart ass punks that wanted to look cool..perhaps had their own little "gang" thing going on, but I also think they're kids caught in a situation that is way beyond their understanding.

I'm no longer positive they're guilty of more than being stupid kids. They've lied, yes..many times. I haven't seen many kids in that age group that won't lie especially when they're trying to cover their asses. I don't mean covering their asses in the abduction/rape/whatever of NH. I mean sneaking out of the house without parents knowledge.

 I can picture JVDS leaving her on the beach. He goes there with her, has a quick "hook up". She passes out and now he's in a spot. He has school in the morning..from what I understand, final exams. If he goes for help, he's busted for sneaking out. If he stays there with her, he's facing the possibility of missing school and again busted for sneaking out. I don't imagine it ever entered his mind that she could be in distress or in danger if he left her there. He probably thought she'd wake up with a hangover and be pissed but was leaving the next morning so it wouldn't really matter. Being a stupid kid and making a bad choice, he left her there..went home, got up and went to school.

I don't know what happened to NH and yes I've followed it closely. I know all the theories and speculations but  in my heart, I can't believe those boys are guilty of more than making stupid decisions that kids of that age make. They're young, they're not hardened criminals that can plan and execute a perfect crime. They're under much pressure and stress, I feel they would've cracked and confessed by now. I think they keep lying now because they've realized that this is going to destroy their lives and its gone so far that nobody is going to believe they really did have nothing to do with her disappearance.
 

Texas:  This is the most dispassionate and objective post I have seen on possible scenarios involving Joran.  It just does not make sense that he would harm Natalee.  So what happended after he left?  He may be responsible for what ensued but he probably is not guilty of the crimes he is supected of (murder, manslaughter, kidnapping)?   Is he a sociopath?, could be, is he a killer?, probably not.


I agree.


I agree also thanks for your thoughts
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #1295 on: June 23, 2005, 09:04:43 AM »

Judging from the misinformation that is floating around, or the subtle twisting or translation of hearsay.. here is my version of how something Bad Happenned came about...

Police 1:  Natalee is still missing, you were the last to see her.  Where is she?
Joran: I left her on the beach, that is the last time I saw her.
Police 1: Your lying! You psycho where i s Natalee?
Joran: I don't Know, I don't know
Police 1: Well what you think happened with her?
Joran: I don't know, maybe something bad happened with her afterwards..

Five hours later Police 1, steps out, gets mugged from the American Press.

Press: Did the suspect confess?
Police: no.
Press: Did the suspect say where Natalee is?
Police: no
Press: What does the suspect think happened with Natalee.
Police:  I don't know, but I think he thinks something bad happened to Natalee.

AP press, Fox News: Suspect confesses, "Something Bad Happened" to Natalee.[/quote]


      COMPANZI..... so officially from the polis this is what we know???
          back to square one then  
       I'm going to smoke a bannana
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Kelly
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« Reply #1296 on: June 23, 2005, 09:06:01 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "dandylion"
When did we hear about "a witness seing 2 people dragging a girl away"?  Is this a rumor or reported on the news?


TWO RELEVANT RUMORS ARE NOT CONFIRMED

-A SCUFFLE ON THE MARIOTT BEACH WITH A HYSTERICAL WOMAN

-A CAR TAKING A HYSTERICAL WOMAN FROM IN FRONT OF HI (GUY REPORTED IT WAS BLOWN OFF)  WAS THE GUY STEVE?


I have been in here on and off for 2 weeks and this second statment I was never aware of unless it is an extension or rewrite of the first.
 

THESE TWO ARE FROM THE SAME SOURCE, ARUBA RADIO.  I MYSELF POSTED IT FROM MY TRANSCRIPTION OF THE FM TOP  95.1 BROADCAST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO REVIEWING OTHER POSSIBILITIES BASED ON INFORMATION THE SPEAKER RECEIVED FROM PEOPLE ON ARUBA.  LISTEN TO THE ARUBANS.  THERE ARE NO SECRETS ON A SMALL ISLAND



where did you hear these rumors? Nothing was confirmed right?
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Kelly
iquitos
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« Reply #1297 on: June 23, 2005, 09:06:34 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "iquitos"
fyi  if the only basis of the armchair remote narcissism psychonalisis is the hair plug let it be known this question was collectively parsed overnight by monkey brain power including in depth photo analysis and it was the general consensus that there are no hair plugs.  hair plug poster invoked father's baldness as further proof that the kid inherited baldness from dad but this trait is inherited through the female so that did not wash.  Appearance was attributed to jelled spiked hair combed forward.   in one picture of Joran and his friends they all had the same hairdo and it is unlikely that they are all premature implantees.


What about the rest of the profile? Sounds to me like it fits Joran to a tee.
And that could explain why his friends all say, Hey, he's a great guy. He couldn't do something like this. They said the same thing about Ted Bundy, as I recall.


I MYSELF POSITED JORAN'S SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION LAST NIGHT AFTER YOUR BEDTIME (AND MINE) IN THE CONTEXT OF JUG'S DESCRIPTION OF THEIR ENCOUNTER ON TUESDAY   AM,  JUG SAYS JOREN KEPT TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED WHILE HIS FATHER AND THE SURINAMER PRESENT (SATISH/DEEPAK?, THEY ALL LOOK ALIKE) WERE BEGGING HIM TO NOT SAY ANYMORE BECAUSE HE WAS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO SPEAK (REMEMBER JUG SAID THE COPS WERE MOSTLY IN CHARGE THOUGH VERY OUTNUMBERED BY ALABAMAN AMATEUR SLEUTHS "WE BASICALLY INTERROGATED HIM").   SO THIS MIGHT BE A SIGN OF SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION I.E. THINKING ONE CAN TALK ONE'S WAY OUT OF ANYTHING.   DO WE HAVE A PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR NATALEE THAT ALLOWS US TO DISCOUNT THE POSSIBILITY SHE RAN AWAY?   BOTTOM LINE, JORAN PROBABLY LIED ABOUT HI DROP OFF, BUT DOES THAT MAKE HIM A KILLER?   HE IS IN OVER HIS POSSIBLY SOCIOPATHIC HEAD.   AND SINCE HE IS A SOCIOPATH.  HE CAN'T HELP IT.  INSANITY DEFENCE ANYONE?
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Sleeks
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« Reply #1298 on: June 23, 2005, 09:07:53 AM »

IMO  The authorities do know something for sure, they are not talking probably for the various obvious reasons.  But it certainly not fair to her parents who want resolution. Mad
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #1299 on: June 23, 2005, 09:07:59 AM »

Quote from: "CompananziAP press, Fox News: Suspect confesses, "Something Bad Happened" to Natalee.[/quote


I guess anything's possible.

Off topic, sort of...aren't you the poster who said yesterday morning that a girl was missing from your class in Mexico?  I don't remember the details, but think (if it was you), you said still wasn't in her room at 5:00 a..????  What happened???
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