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Author Topic: RBN #18 - 6/22/05  (Read 325601 times)
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chloe2
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« Reply #1300 on: June 23, 2005, 09:09:11 AM »

Psychopaths display pathological narcissism, including grandiosity, but psychopathy is differentiated from NPD by psychopaths' willingness to use physical violence to get what they want, whereas narcissists rarely commit crimes; the narcissists I've known personally are, in fact, averse to physical contact with others, though they will occasionally strike out in an impulse of rage.


This is from the second link posted about Narcissim.
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #1301 on: June 23, 2005, 09:10:48 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "iquitos"
fyi  if the only basis of the armchair remote narcissism psychonalisis is the hair plug let it be known this question was collectively parsed overnight by monkey brain power including in depth photo analysis and it was the general consensus that there are no hair plugs.  hair plug poster invoked father's baldness as further proof that the kid inherited baldness from dad but this trait is inherited through the female so that did not wash.  Appearance was attributed to jelled spiked hair combed forward.   in one picture of Joran and his friends they all had the same hairdo and it is unlikely that they are all premature implantees.


What about the rest of the profile? Sounds to me like it fits Joran to a tee.
And that could explain why his friends all say, Hey, he's a great guy. He couldn't do something like this. They said the same thing about Ted Bundy, as I recall.




I MYSELF POSITED JORAN'S SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION LAST NIGHT AFTER YOUR BEDTIME (AND MINE) IN THE CONTEXT OF JUG'S DESCRIPTION OF THEIR ENCOUNTER ON TUESDAY   AM,  JUG SAYS JOREN KEPT TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED WHILE HIS FATHER AND THE SURINAMER PRESENT (SATISH/DEEPAK?, THEY ALL LOOK ALIKE) WERE BEGGING HIM TO NOT SAY ANYMORE BECAUSE HE WAS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO SPEAK (REMEMBER JUG SAID THE COPS WERE MOSTLY IN CHARGE THOUGH VERY OUTNUMBERED BY ALABAMAN AMATEUR SLEUTHS "WE BASICALLY INTERROGATED HIM").   SO THIS MIGHT BE A SIGN OF SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION I.E. THINKING ONE CAN TALK ONE'S WAY OUT OF ANYTHING.   DO WE HAVE A PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR NATALEE THAT ALLOWS US TO DISCOUNT THE POSSIBILITY SHE RAN AWAY?   BOTTOM LINE, JORAN PROBABLY LIED ABOUT HI DROP OFF, BUT DOES THAT MAKE HIM A KILLER?   HE IS IN OVER HIS POSSIBLY SOCIOPATHIC HEAD.   AND SINCE HE IS A SOCIOPATH.  HE CAN'T HELP IT.  INSANITY DEFENCE ANYONE?





       FAMILY history of lunacy/suicides????
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chloe2
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« Reply #1302 on: June 23, 2005, 09:11:40 AM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
..

Five hours later Police 1, steps out, gets mugged from the American Press.

Press: Did the suspect confess?
Police: no.
Press: Did the suspect say where Natalee is?
Police: no
Press: What does the suspect think happened with Natalee.
Police:  I don't know, but I think he thinks something bad happened to Natalee.

AP press, Fox News: Suspect confesses, "Something Bad Happened" to Natalee.


This is completely believeable. Just read this forum to see how the stories change and get twisted -- it's fascinating.
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Compananzi
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« Reply #1303 on: June 23, 2005, 09:12:35 AM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Judging from the misinformation that is floating around, or the subtle twisting or translation of hearsay.. here is my version of how something Bad Happenned came about...

Police 1:  Natalee is still missing, you were the last to see her.  Where is she?
Joran: I left her on the beach, that is the last time I saw her.
Police 1: Your lying! You psycho where i s Natalee?
Joran: I don't Know, I don't know
Police 1: Well what you think happened with her?
Joran: I don't know, maybe something bad happened with her afterwards..

Five hours later Police 1, steps out, gets mugged from the American Press.

Press: Did the suspect confess?
Police: no.
Press: Did the suspect say where Natalee is?
Police: no
Press: What does the suspect think happened with Natalee.
Police:  I don't know, but I think he thinks something bad happened to Natalee.

AP press, Fox News: Suspect confesses, "Something Bad Happened" to Natalee.



      COMPANZI..... so officially from the polis this is what we know???
          back to square one then  
       I'm going to smoke a bannana[/quote]

I think it would be reasonable to think that if the early news of a confession, the news that Natalee is dead, the news that a suspect was leading the police to a site, all turned out false, then how can we latch on to something that a 17 yr old which may have mentioned something plausible, then gets reinterpreted by a interrogator, police and then the press.   I just wonder if something subtle does not get lost going from Dutch to papiamento to English....you think?
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #1304 on: June 23, 2005, 09:12:50 AM »

Quote from: "Sleeks"
IMO  The authorities do know something for sure, they are not talking probably for the various obvious reasons.  But it certainly not fair to her parents who want resolution. Mad


Do u think she is still alive?
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jac723
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« Reply #1305 on: June 23, 2005, 09:13:51 AM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "iquitos"
LAST NIGHT MONKEY POWER LEARNED THAT THERE WERE SPECIAL IMPORTED SECURITY GUARDS FOR THE CONCERT AND THEY STAYED AT THE HI, AND THEY WORE BLACK UNIFORMS WITH A BIG SECURITY ON THEM.  THEY LEFT THE NEXT DAY WITH THE TOURING ARTISTS AND THEIR COSTUMES AND EQUIPMENT SO MAY NOT HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED.


boy r u guys good!!!!
morning Iquitos....r u on DAG??


I second that--that is VERY interesting--I remember that being mentioned before--has anyone looked into that-that we know of---especially when they found a security guards uniform and the 3 boys said there was a guy approaching her with a black security uniform---hmmmmmmm

But then again...the guys I am sure are aware of this fest every year-so they may know these security guards will be there...

Gosh-head is starting to hurt already!!!!!!!!!!
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Jennifer
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« Reply #1306 on: June 23, 2005, 09:14:20 AM »

i was trying to find my post from yesterday, but dont know how tyo use the search tool correctly. any way, my theory is this...

the three idiots are actually telling the truth. they did take natalee to the HI (fisherman hut, marriott area) and the sec guards from the soul beach concert were staying there(at the HI), that i confrimed. the company that was hired to provide security is ESSC. executive security service corp. they are a francihise, like a body shop with temp employees. i think that the sec guards took natalee, and removed her from the island in a trunk used for musical equipment or clothing. thats why there is no evidence. i will be looking into whether they have all employees pass background checks. and photos of all of their uniforms and a entire travel intinery. all flight schedules and if they had a private plane.. ESSC is run by clearance white.. phone number 678-364-8792..yesterday i contacted soul beach productions in california and spoke with ms. monica hall, she gave me the info on mr white. she was pleasant and seem willing to cooperate, about 5 minutes after my call to her.. they *69 ed me and i think they are a bit paranoid....the amount of ppl involved in the soul beach event was tremendous, they had to have private or chartered planess that only they have access to....your thoughts....
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« Reply #1307 on: June 23, 2005, 09:15:00 AM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Judging from the misinformation that is floating around, or the subtle twisting or translation of hearsay.. here is my version of how something Bad Happenned came about...

Police 1:  Natalee is still missing, you were the last to see her.  Where is she?
Joran: I left her on the beach, that is the last time I saw her.
Police 1: Your lying! You psycho where i s Natalee?
Joran: I don't Know, I don't know
Police 1: Well what you think happened with her?
Joran: I don't know, maybe something bad happened with her afterwards..

Five hours later Police 1, steps out, gets mugged from the American Press.

Press: Did the suspect confess?
Police: no.
Press: Did the suspect say where Natalee is?
Police: no
Press: What does the suspect think happened with Natalee.
Police:  I don't know, but I think he thinks something bad happened to Natalee.

AP press, Fox News: Suspect confesses, "Something Bad Happened" to Natalee.



      COMPANZI..... so officially from the polis this is what we know???
          back to square one then  
       I'm going to smoke a bannana


I think it would be reasonable to think that if the early news of a confession, the news that Natalee is dead, the news that a suspect was leading the police to a site, all turned out false, then how can we latch on to something that a 17 yr old which may have mentioned something plausible, then gets reinterpreted by a interrogator, police and then the press.   I just wonder if something subtle does not get lost going from Dutch to papiamento to English....you think?[/quote]

     or the polis started covering and much lost in translaion there I think
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mojo
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« Reply #1308 on: June 23, 2005, 09:15:38 AM »

FWIW - hasibokos reports this am

Latest developments in Aruba (Thursday):  AweMeinta reported today that the investigation has reached a 'deadlock'. The Aruba media is also reporting the same. Apparently there arenít new leads to follow and the Aruban authorities are searching in the dark. Hasibokos.com has learned that the authorities are putting a lot of pressure on the four suspects who are now in custody right now. They are trying to get more information out of them, but this has not (yet) resulted in new leads. Hopefully the arrival of the search team from Texas will give new perspective on this case, cause if  we summarize what the Aruban media is reporting right now: ' The investigation is STALLED'

Crying or Very sad
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« Reply #1309 on: June 23, 2005, 09:16:57 AM »

also soul beach had done 5 productions three were in aruba and ESSC was use in all instances...
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« Reply #1310 on: June 23, 2005, 09:17:07 AM »

Thanks mojo
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chloe2
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« Reply #1311 on: June 23, 2005, 09:17:22 AM »

Quote from: "Rob"
i was trying to find my post from yesterday, but dont know how tyo use the search tool correctly. any way, my theory is this...

the three idiots are actually telling the truth. they did take natalee to the HI (fisherman hut, marriott area) and the sec guards from the soul beach concert were staying there(at the HI), that i confrimed. the company that was hired to provide security is ESSC. executive security service corp. they are a francihise, like a body shop with temp employees. i think that the sec guards took natalee, and removed her from the island in a trunk used for musical equipment or clothing. thats why there is no evidence. i will be looking into whether they have all employees pass background checks. and photos of all of their uniforms and a entire travel intinery. all flight schedules and if they had a private plane.. ESSC is run by clearance white.. phone number 678-364-8792..yesterday i contacted soul beach productions in california and spoke with ms. monica hall, she gave me the info on mr white. she was pleasant and seem willing to cooperate, about 5 minutes after my call to her.. they *69 ed me and i think they are a bit paranoid....the amount of ppl involved in the soul beach event was tremendous, they had to have private or chartered planess that only they have access to....your thoughts....


Hey Rob -- (edited) What I meant to say, is if you get to look at the photos of their employees, why don't you compare them to the two portraits of the guys last seen with Amy Bradley -- on this page:
http://www.tggweb.com/amybradley/

It's a stretch, but. . . .
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #1312 on: June 23, 2005, 09:18:13 AM »

Quote from: "Rob"
i was trying to find my post from yesterday, but dont know how tyo use the search tool correctly. any way, my theory is this...

the three idiots are actually telling the truth. they did take natalee to the HI (fisherman hut, marriott area) and the sec guards from the soul beach concert were staying there(at the HI), that i confrimed. the company that was hired to provide security is ESSC. executive security service corp. they are a francihise, like a body shop with temp employees. i think that the sec guards took natalee, and removed her from the island in a trunk used for musical equipment or clothing. thats why there is no evidence.


Of course.  Exactly what I've been thinking, at least the last couple of days.  But I think the 3 KNOW someone took her, and I also think poppa VDS knows.  Perhaps he was out in the middle of the night trying to find her?  (Wasn't he seen at 3 a.m. or something?)  

At any rate, if these kids knew who took her, I would think they would have identified them by now.  Although....how would Croes fit in to this scenario?  Would his involvement be limited to the drug side of things?
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Professor
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« Reply #1313 on: June 23, 2005, 09:18:52 AM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "iquitos"
fyi  if the only basis of the armchair remote narcissism psychonalisis is the hair plug let it be known this question was collectively parsed overnight by monkey brain power including in depth photo analysis and it was the general consensus that there are no hair plugs.  hair plug poster invoked father's baldness as further proof that the kid inherited baldness from dad but this trait is inherited through the female so that did not wash.  Appearance was attributed to jelled spiked hair combed forward.   in one picture of Joran and his friends they all had the same hairdo and it is unlikely that they are all premature implantees.


What about the rest of the profile? Sounds to me like it fits Joran to a tee.
And that could explain why his friends all say, Hey, he's a great guy. He couldn't do something like this. They said the same thing about Ted Bundy, as I recall.




I MYSELF POSITED JORAN'S SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION LAST NIGHT AFTER YOUR BEDTIME (AND MINE) IN THE CONTEXT OF JUG'S DESCRIPTION OF THEIR ENCOUNTER ON TUESDAY   AM,  JUG SAYS JOREN KEPT TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED WHILE HIS FATHER AND THE SURINAMER PRESENT (SATISH/DEEPAK?, THEY ALL LOOK ALIKE) WERE BEGGING HIM TO NOT SAY ANYMORE BECAUSE HE WAS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO SPEAK (REMEMBER JUG SAID THE COPS WERE MOSTLY IN CHARGE THOUGH VERY OUTNUMBERED BY ALABAMAN AMATEUR SLEUTHS "WE BASICALLY INTERROGATED HIM").   SO THIS MIGHT BE A SIGN OF SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION I.E. THINKING ONE CAN TALK ONE'S WAY OUT OF ANYTHING.   DO WE HAVE A PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR NATALEE THAT ALLOWS US TO DISCOUNT THE POSSIBILITY SHE RAN AWAY?   BOTTOM LINE, JORAN PROBABLY LIED ABOUT HI DROP OFF, BUT DOES THAT MAKE HIM A KILLER?   HE IS IN OVER HIS POSSIBLY SOCIOPATHIC HEAD.   AND SINCE HE IS A SOCIOPATH.  HE CAN'T HELP IT.  INSANITY DEFENCE ANYONE?





       FAMILY history of lunacy/suicides????


Actually family history of lunacy and suicides does NOT fit the profile. Narcissists don't go nuts. They drive OTHER people nuts.
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amillerwvu
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« Reply #1314 on: June 23, 2005, 09:18:53 AM »

Just thinking...if Joran and buddies are "guilty," why would they need to question so many more people?  Could it be that Joran is "indirectly" guilty?  Could he have taken Natalee to the beach to do whatever and one of the following happened:

*she rejected his advances that resulted in a scuffle with her running away and into other danger (ie...other people, into the ocean (could she swim), falling and injuring herself)?

*she did indeed fall asleep or wander away, so Joran left her to find her own way home...thus he truly doesn't know what happened to her.

*one of the brothers was along and tried something, so she ran off (leading to something more danderous..as liste above).

Perhaps Joran really didn't think harm had come to her.  Maybe he was simply worried about getting his butt home to avoid trouble and to get prepared for his finals....I don't know.  I am just throwing out some scenerios.  Maybe...just maybe...it's really not as "complicated" as what some scenerios are suggesting Confused
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« Reply #1315 on: June 23, 2005, 09:19:28 AM »

Quote from: "Rob"
i was trying to find my post from yesterday, but dont know how tyo use the search tool correctly. any way, my theory is this...

the three idiots are actually telling the truth. they did take natalee to the HI (fisherman hut, marriott area) and the sec guards from the soul beach concert were staying there(at the HI), that i confrimed. the company that was hired to provide security is ESSC. executive security service corp. they are a francihise, like a body shop with temp employees. i think that the sec guards took natalee, and removed her from the island in a trunk used for musical equipment or clothing. thats why there is no evidence. i will be looking into whether they have all employees pass background checks. and photos of all of their uniforms and a entire travel intinery. all flight schedules and if they had a private plane.. ESSC is run by clearance white.. phone number 678-364-8792..yesterday i contacted soul beach productions in california and spoke with ms. monica hall, she gave me the info on mr white. she was pleasant and seem willing to cooperate, about 5 minutes after my call to her.. they *69 ed me and i think they are a bit paranoid....the amount of ppl involved in the soul beach event was tremendous, they had to have private or chartered planess that only they have access to....your thoughts....


My thoughts....... you are def on to something. You are freaking me out.
If I come up missing, pls get involved. GO ROB!!

BTW: Cant believe you used your real name WTF? Wink
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Rob
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« Reply #1316 on: June 23, 2005, 09:19:41 AM »

the reason that this investigation is stalled is bc, they are looking in the wrong place....
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« Reply #1317 on: June 23, 2005, 09:20:13 AM »

Quote from: "chloe2Hey Rob -- when you look at the photos, why don't you compare them to the two portraits of the guys last seen with Amy Bradley -- on this page:
http://www.tggweb.com/amybradley/

It's a stretch, but. . . .[/quote


Do you have another link to compare Amy's with?
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« Reply #1318 on: June 23, 2005, 09:20:24 AM »

tknx terry....i know im on to something...
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« Reply #1319 on: June 23, 2005, 09:20:30 AM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "iquitos"
fyi  if the only basis of the armchair remote narcissism psychonalisis is the hair plug let it be known this question was collectively parsed overnight by monkey brain power including in depth photo analysis and it was the general consensus that there are no hair plugs.  hair plug poster invoked father's baldness as further proof that the kid inherited baldness from dad but this trait is inherited through the female so that did not wash.  Appearance was attributed to jelled spiked hair combed forward.   in one picture of Joran and his friends they all had the same hairdo and it is unlikely that they are all premature implantees.


What about the rest of the profile? Sounds to me like it fits Joran to a tee.
And that could explain why his friends all say, Hey, he's a great guy. He couldn't do something like this. They said the same thing about Ted Bundy, as I recall.




I MYSELF POSITED JORAN'S SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION LAST NIGHT AFTER YOUR BEDTIME (AND MINE) IN THE CONTEXT OF JUG'S DESCRIPTION OF THEIR ENCOUNTER ON TUESDAY   AM,  JUG SAYS JOREN KEPT TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED WHILE HIS FATHER AND THE SURINAMER PRESENT (SATISH/DEEPAK?, THEY ALL LOOK ALIKE) WERE BEGGING HIM TO NOT SAY ANYMORE BECAUSE HE WAS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO SPEAK (REMEMBER JUG SAID THE COPS WERE MOSTLY IN CHARGE THOUGH VERY OUTNUMBERED BY ALABAMAN AMATEUR SLEUTHS "WE BASICALLY INTERROGATED HIM").   SO THIS MIGHT BE A SIGN OF SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION I.E. THINKING ONE CAN TALK ONE'S WAY OUT OF ANYTHING.   DO WE HAVE A PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR NATALEE THAT ALLOWS US TO DISCOUNT THE POSSIBILITY SHE RAN AWAY?   BOTTOM LINE, JORAN PROBABLY LIED ABOUT HI DROP OFF, BUT DOES THAT MAKE HIM A KILLER?   HE IS IN OVER HIS POSSIBLY SOCIOPATHIC HEAD.   AND SINCE HE IS A SOCIOPATH.  HE CAN'T HELP IT.  INSANITY DEFENCE ANYONE?





       FAMILY history of lunacy/suicides????


I have to say that this psycho Analysis, it looking a bit too deep.  You have her a family who cooperated with the Alabama mod squad. I am sure all the while Jug's foul mouth was ranting and raving.  You also have her Joran who was sure of himself and wanted to set the record straight, did want to help and tell what was going on.  For a 17 yr old telling the father its ok, there is not need to hide is admirable..  His Father fearing that a young 17yr might incriminate himself regardless if he was innocent or not.  Plus I think Jug hot headed ness rubbed Paul the wrong way.  Any one who start cussin I d just tune you right out.  If it was any city here in the US, and this would have happened I am pretty sure you d hear:  Get off my property, or I ll call the police.  Call my lawyer, get a search warrant. etc..

http://www.geocities.com/dutch_on_aruba/nhposteraruba.jpg  What is this all about?  What personality is this then?
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