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Author Topic: RBN #18 - 6/22/05  (Read 320036 times)
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RB
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« Reply #220 on: June 22, 2005, 09:16:43 PM »

I NEVER waste my valuable time discussing theories that aren't based on some facts. I fully believe in discussing the possibilies...however, time must be taken to do real live deep research before I'll put it in my sleuthin' bag of tricks or start throwing innocent names around!

They why, nancy, are you discussing it on an Internet messageboard?  What's the be gained for your way of thinking by doing that?  Wouldn't you want your view to not be tainted by what's been floating around? Possibilties and discussion is what's happening here - I haven't posted a theory yet, nor half half the posters here.
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Perforator
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« Reply #221 on: June 22, 2005, 09:17:00 PM »

Quote from: "coco"
Nancy - there are only one or two things that are not pure theory here - Natalee is missing and she went out for a drive with the 3 boys after CnCs. Everything else is speculation but there are certainly some very strong and at times nasty reactions to people who join and ask questions that do not fit one or two set "theories" of the case. One of those theories is that Natalee was a perfect saint, all the kids drank responsibly and all the bad stuff was done by those awful foreigners.  I think this is what RB and Absolut are pointing towards. Usually real life is more muddied than all that but there are times when anyone who suggests that gets treated as if they are "trashing Natalee" and some folks, esp if they are not used to being online, find that intimidating and hostile.


coco- I am not defending Natalies honor. The fact of the matter is it doesn't matter to me if she was a saint or a slut. Like you said the two facts are she went for a drive with the 3 boys and she is missing. RB and Absolut are bringing up questions as to wether Natalie was a saint or a slut and in the context of this discussion it doesn't matter. That's the point I'm trying to make. We all know she left with them. We should concentrate on what happened after she left, not before because it doesn't matter. By RB and Absolut bringing up these questions of her character when it doesn't matter it seems like they are trying to pass blame on Natalie. Get my drift?
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bendex
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« Reply #222 on: June 22, 2005, 09:17:23 PM »

How one does dissapear accidently from a beach ?



- ajourney of a thousand miles begins with on step -

lao tse
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Only the facts
RB
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« Reply #223 on: June 22, 2005, 09:17:34 PM »

Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "RB"
I Can you PM me the text of the answer to that, if Bendex or someone else explains? Gotta head off and spend quality time with my own lovely child. How lucky to be able to do that.


Yes ma'am.
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KerinTX
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« Reply #224 on: June 22, 2005, 09:17:43 PM »

So they bring the 3 in a room...and start questioning Joran and he says "Deepak you came back after an hour and picked me up at the beach" and Deepak says "stop lying" and then Joran says "Oh,I mean YOU did, Satish".
I would like to know the "rest of that story"...
and:
No mention of Natalee.

Sorry but did the Kalpoe's supply Joran with a story and then he gets in there and messes it up or what??
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"What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"
dragonfly
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« Reply #225 on: June 22, 2005, 09:18:20 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "rcjasinski"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "calif-mom"
i never post. just have been readin along and following the story. Tears my heart out.

this is posted at another place on this site:

http://www.geocities.com/dutch_on_aruba/nhposteraruba.jpg

what do you think? Seems very odd to me.

People are saying this is legit. Seems bogus to me. And very strange.

(now, if this was discussed eons ago, I apologize. A person can't possibly read everything written from day one)  Wink



First I've seen it but I'd say its another very sick joke. Sad


Why is that a sick joke?  I seem to recall that there was a flyer like that.
 

please look again.  seems reasonable to me.  it is personalized to get a response from natalee if she sees it.  sort of like the family password  i bet it is real


From what I've gathered on here, Natalee's nickname is "Hootie".  This was a very personal poster made by her mother.
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sandy
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« Reply #226 on: June 22, 2005, 09:18:37 PM »

Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
9 or 10 more witnesses might be forthcoming according to Daddy H. Oh my Gosh. This board is gonna go ballistic...


Apparantly , Joran was talking to his classmate about the case, I wonder if it's his classmates...


I have been thinkong about this busness of Joran talking to his friends at school - I can't frankly imagine a 17yr old talking about a murder accidental or otherwise with friends so freely - I would think he would be so traumatized he would be in a trance almost, not knowing who to turn to.
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Another K in Texas
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« Reply #227 on: June 22, 2005, 09:19:45 PM »

Her dad seems to think she is dead.
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chelsblu
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« Reply #228 on: June 22, 2005, 09:20:33 PM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Mr Hollaway is again on HnC saying the elder van der sloot has something to do with his daughter's disappearance. Wonder if something is about to happen?


From Hannity & what his name
I think that BTH's statement that her visit "confirmed" some things in her own mind was reference to the fact that she, now more than ever, thinks VDS senior is hiding something. And when she says that more people are involved she is referring to pop.  Just my opinion

Daddy Holloway thinks pop VDS knows something but is not willing to point fingers in a specific way. I don't think that dad H thinks she is alive. Just a gut feeling.

He says FBI says that Aruban police are doing a good job.
Asked about reaction to attacks on Natalee. Says he has not listened to press. I'm from south..trusting friendly people... VH befriended by them possibly the day before..not like they just met at the bar and she took off with them...natalee might be little naive but who's not at 18.
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Angiex911dsptchr
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« Reply #229 on: June 22, 2005, 09:21:13 PM »

someone on FOX now saying he doubts she is alive at this point.. OMG it was her dad.. I ran in the room.. YIKES...  also posts and posts ago someone mentioned that his voice sounds like Michael Waltrips.. too lazy to look that up.. and I agree..it does. Something is happening I believe..
and nobody can talk.
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chelsblu
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« Reply #230 on: June 22, 2005, 09:21:23 PM »

sorry the first paragraph was me and me alone not from H & C show.
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dragonfly
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« Reply #231 on: June 22, 2005, 09:21:39 PM »

Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
9 or 10 more witnesses might be forthcoming according to Daddy H. Oh my Gosh. This board is gonna go ballistic...


Apparantly , Joran was talking to his classmate about the case, I wonder if it's his classmates...


I have been thinkong about this busness of Joran talking to his friends at school - I can't frankly imagine a 17yr old talking about a murder accidental or otherwise with friends so freely - I would think he would be so traumatized he would be in a trance almost, not knowing who to turn to.


Unless he was making sure he told plenty of friends the "story" that he and the brothers intended to stick by so if these friends or classmates were asked they would say "Well, all he told me was that they went to the lighthouse and then they dropped her off at HI with a security guard helping her to the door..."
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #232 on: June 22, 2005, 09:21:41 PM »

Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
9 or 10 more witnesses might be forthcoming according to Daddy H. Oh my Gosh. This board is gonna go ballistic...


Apparantly , Joran was talking to his classmate about the case, I wonder if it's his classmates...


I have been thinkong about this busness of Joran talking to his friends at school - I can't frankly imagine a 17yr old talking about a murder accidental or otherwise with friends so freely - I would think he would be so traumatized he would be in a trance almost, not knowing who to turn to.


no not about murder, but about using the shocker--YES. Look at that sheriff's son in CA. and his buddies. Haihl I think his name was.
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HLSlawyerchik
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« Reply #233 on: June 22, 2005, 09:22:03 PM »

Quote
am still running about an hour behind here trying to catch up, but i just want to commend HLSlawyerChik on some great sleuthing...
Quote:
Okay, I'm beating a dead horse, but I did find a photo showing what appears to be a security guard in a full black outfit on the last night of the Soul Music Beach Festival. See the guy standing in front of the stage in the 2nd picture:

http://www.kikotakiko.com/gallery1.php?album=227&item=Photogallery


Thanks wbvious!
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RB
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« Reply #234 on: June 22, 2005, 09:22:33 PM »

You're missing the point, Perf.  We're not targeting Ms Holloway, nor are we putting her on a pedestal. Sometimes the simpliest solution is the right one.

The waters, IMO, are much more muddied here than 3 guys abducted her and killed her.  No one deserves to die for a mistake, but that unfortunately happens and we have to learn from them and move on.  Nor does it give anyone else the right to take advanatge of a mistake to the detrement of your personal safety, and they should pay for doing so.  Please point out to me where any of us have said Natalee was as you described and I'll happily and meekly apologize.  You won't find that because we haven't done that, we're just open to all views and not just 1.
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Another K in Texas
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« Reply #235 on: June 22, 2005, 09:22:39 PM »

Actually dad said it was likely? not sure that is the word, that she had met these boys the day before.

Did they go the soul program its first night?
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luna
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« Reply #236 on: June 22, 2005, 09:22:59 PM »

Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "lee"
how can you rule it an accident unless you have either the body or a witnesse's statement?

all we have now is changing stories..

when you have changing stories, something is being hidden...

besides, if its an accident, why not  bring her to the hospital or polis station right away?????

I surmiss that they didn't want to do that because she either had been gang raped or had drugs in her that weren't supposed to be there....

there is no other explanation for the lies......none whatsoever....


How about they're young, stupid and scared?
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chelsblu
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« Reply #237 on: June 22, 2005, 09:23:29 PM »

Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "rcjasinski"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "calif-mom"
i never post. just have been readin along and following the story. Tears my heart out.

this is posted at another place on this site:

http://www.geocities.com/dutch_on_aruba/nhposteraruba.jpg

what do you think? Seems very odd to me.

People are saying this is legit. Seems bogus to me. And very strange.

(now, if this was discussed eons ago, I apologize. A person can't possibly read everything written from day one)  Wink



First I've seen it but I'd say its another very sick joke. Sad


Why is that a sick joke?  I seem to recall that there was a flyer like that.
 

please look again.  seems reasonable to me.  it is personalized to get a response from natalee if she sees it.  sort of like the family password  i bet it is real


From what I've gathered on here, Natalee's nickname is "Hootie".  This was a very personal poster made by her mother.


then, I'll bet.... here come the runaway theories again...
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #238 on: June 22, 2005, 09:23:29 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RB"
Kerin I have gotten so many PM's I had to delete some.  One thing I will say is that every one of them has said they're afraid to post on this board, and some of them appear to have some valuable contribution they could bring here.  They say it's "hostile" :)


Oh for crying out loud! Quit whining!  Everyone is welcome here. But, it's only logical when a train of thought or a far out theory gets out of hand, isn't fact based, it's gonna bring on a group outcry.

That's just human nature.


Nancy how bout a clear and concise theory from you in paragraph format. I have heard what you have to say yet. It all comes out as attack, snippet, attack, snippet and frankly it has gotten kind of old.


It's FAR too early to have a theory IMO. There aren't enough facts to do that yet. When I study a case I read and research and build a case in my mind.  The case is always built with facts and a sound timeline as it's basic structure...when rumors, hearsay or unconfirmed info comes along I tuck away the one I feel are "possible".  I'm very discerning in what goes on this list.

In the meantime, I study behavior, the legal moves, and use my own life experience to decide what is a possible truth. For instance now I'm watching the interrogations, their length, etc. I know they've stopped for the time being...I'm wondering why.  What is their next tact?  I'm also looking at behavior of the families. I NEVER waste my valuable time discussing theories that aren't based on some facts. I fully believe in discussing the possibilies...however, time must be taken to do real live deep research before I'll put it in my sleuthin' bag of tricks or start throwing innocent names around!

Detectives, and even good armchair sleuths build a case slowly and with great care.  I can tell you this...I don't believe this case is complicated.  The emotions and devastation of ALL these families in the aftermath are deep and complicated.  HOWEVER, I don't believe for a second the crime portion of this case is complicated.  IMO we aren't dealing with kidnapping, drug dealing or Columbian operatives.  

AND, I have a rule to NEVER, EVER to state something as fact if I know it isn't.  If one of my "possible" facts gets stronger I will throw it into a discussion,  BUT always prefaced with a tag line indicating it is rumor, or hearsay. And I'm very discerning about possible evidence that comes along. My goal is to build a strong case with sound information.


Where is Dallas when you need to show em something. Great post and you are no doubt very familar with websleuths, america's most wanted and courttv boards. Because that post was dead on with an armchair detective. Now maybe you can appreciate the fact that this is the first case many posters have followed and you can allow them to have those far off opinions that you would NEVER voice.


No, I'm not familar with those sites. I read TONS, have diverse friendships including detectives, writers and great journalists.  Yes, I have some patience for the newbies here...but, it's also the old timers (i'm not THAT old) who should step in and question, support and be downright frank when things get way off base.  

Cheers!
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Perforator
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« Reply #239 on: June 22, 2005, 09:24:32 PM »

Quote from: "RB"
You're missing the point, Perf.  We're not targeting Ms Holloway, nor are we putting her on a pedestal. Sometimes the simpliest solution is the right one.

The waters, IMO, are much more muddied here than 3 guys abducted her and killed her.  No one deserves to die for a mistake, but that unfortunately happens and we have to learn from them and move on.  Nor does it give anyone else the right to take advanatge of a mistake to the detrement of your personal safety, and they should pay for doing so.  Please point out to me where any of us have said Natalee was as you described and I'll happily and meekly apologize.  You won't find that because we haven't done that, we're just open to all views and not just 1.

Please tell me why it makes a difference what her behavior was before she left?
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