RBN #18 - 6/22/05

[friend of monkeys]

i was trying to find my post from yesterday, but dont know how tyo use the search tool correctly. any way, my theory is this...

the three idiots are actually telling the truth. they did take natalee to the HI (fisherman hut, marriott area) and the sec guards from the soul beach concert were staying there(at the HI), that i confrimed. the company that was hired to provide security is ESSC. executive security service corp. they are a francihise, like a body shop with temp employees. i think that the sec guards took natalee, and removed her from the island in a trunk used for musical equipment or clothing. thats why there is no evidence. i will be looking into whether they have all employees pass background checks. and photos of all of their uniforms and a entire travel intinery. all flight schedules and if they had a private plane.. ESSC is run by clearance white.. phone number 678-364-8792..yesterday i contacted soul beach productions in california and spoke with ms. monica hall, she gave me the info on mr white. she was pleasant and seem willing to cooperate, about 5 minutes after my call to her.. they *69 ed me and i think they are a bit paranoid....the amount of ppl involved in the soul beach event was tremendous, they had to have private or chartered planess that only they have access to....your thoughts....

All that sounds believable.........but the one and only thing that takes me back to not knowing a damn thing is...............WHY THE CHANGE OF STORIES ............why....................i bet the beach story is the closest story to the truth...........but why all the other stories if they were not in fact involved in her dissapearnce.......if he was just an asshole and left her on the beach drunk and crying bc she turned him down for sex, or he raped her, then left her........ (yes that is a serious charge, crime) but she was alive when he left..........then you would think he would come clean about that and sweep away the murder charges pending against him...Just my opinion

it was widely reported yesterday that no one has changed their story.. only anita vds story is different, but she was in holland and might not know....

Oh ok, so the security guard that was in with deepak is lying? and made up that story? Unlikely.

Unless lyin bout what deepak said is some sick revenge plot to nail them for framing the guards

    NO WAY! IMHFO!

[nancy_drew]

IMO  The authorities do know something for sure, they are not talking probably for the various obvious reasons But it certainly not fair to her parents who want resolution. :x

Good morning...

I would agree they have more info concerning evidence, timeline, etc. But, it appears we are at a standstill due to not getting a straight truthful story from the boys.  Behavioral interrogators are either enroute or there...I suspect a new series of sessions will begin with the boys soon.

Someone last night suggested this new plan to bring in outside specialists indicates the FBI is taking a larger role in this case.

Also, if the Texas searchers find Natalee, dead or alive...we've got a whole new ballgame.

 

like it or not the boys are under no legal obligation to incriminate themselves.  the burden of proof is on the state.  old principle of civilized society where we have tried to stop taking the law into our own hands

I fully support their legal right to stay quiet.  However, I also believe in telling the truth, especially given the deep pain felt by everyone connected to any of these families. Sometimes, it's best to do the right thing...regardless of a right to stay silent.  At this point, the entire country of Aruba, the families of the boys and Natalee,  and all those involved as volunteers and professionals are left in limbo...due to a lack of truth.  Sure, legally stay quiet...it's a legal right. BUT, in this case doing the right thing by getting the truth out is the right thing to do IMO.

[Rob]

Rob - Aren't you going to Aruba this weekend?

Also, what about the security shirt found on the beach?  Do you remember what color that was?  Any followup ever happen with that?

yes i am.. i am going to wait until after the guy from the caymans and the team from tx to do their search and if they find nothing i will go to the authorities with my theory...

You are going there ROB? To help with the search or something?

my vacation just happens to be the same time.. i always go in the summer and i also go for carnival in feb....

[Professor]

Psychopaths display pathological narcissism, including grandiosity, but psychopathy is differentiated from NPD by psychopaths' willingness to use physical violence to get what they want, whereas narcissists rarely commit crimes; the narcissists I've known personally are, in fact, averse to physical contact with others, though they will occasionally strike out in an impulse of rage.


This is from the second link posted about Narcissim.

Narcissists commit LOTS of crimes. Just that most of them are not violent ones. Cheating, stealing, lying, scapegoating, etc. And it would be perfectly in line with a narcissistic personality to give a girl a date rape drug and pass her around to his buds. And yes, he might even leave her there, on the beach, clothed or unclothed, and think nothing of it.

I was simply quoting the description of narcissicists from the links provided. Are you a psychiatrist? Just curious.

No, but I went into therapy once, when I was having severe problems with my marriage, and, in the third session, the therapist opened up his drawer and pulled out a piece of paper with "The Profile of the Narcissist."
And I was shocked. I asked him how he could have known my ex's every trait and mannerism.

By the way, the aversion to physical touch that you mentioned seems to be the only characteristic that doesn't fit with JVDS. But I have read up and found out that that doesn't always surface until years into a marriage.
Sometimes it takes the form of inability to have a lasting sexual relationship, although it does not rule out one-night-stands.

[dragonfly]

Okay, just stating my opinion here.  While I see the possibilities in the security guard theory, I personally don't subscribe to it.  I know it is possible and if that turns out to be the case, then I won't be shocked.  But I do believe that they have the right people in custody.  While we may not have "confirmation" that any of them have changed their stories, I remember the first story they told and how many have proven that to be untrue (security video, hotel security, Gretta and her tour of HI and the lobby, and Mickey John).  I personally found Mickey John to be believable.  I believe what he says about Deepak talking to him.  I believe him when he says the police made he and Deepak sign statements saying that they never knew each other before then and that Deepak apologized to him.  Now I have Joran's mother telling what her son told her and I believe her too.  So, I believe there are at least 2 lying people in jail.  No, lying does not make anyone a killer, but it does prove there is something to hide.  No, if she is dead it does not mean they "murdered" her, but they have covered up something here and they should come clean with whatever they know.  There are some questions surrounding PVDS that I feel should be answered.  Maybe he did not realize what he was helping his son with, but I believe he knows something more.  I don't look at these 3 boys and see cold-blooded murderers (very well could have been an accident and they are scared to death), but I do see that they are hiding something and it needs to be told.  Just my opinion.

[friend of monkeys]

also- all 3 said they had szex with her... Inquiutos posted ap press release of 6/5 statement from 3 last night....
INQUITOS is great food source of info!!!

[Rob]

i was trying to find my post from yesterday, but dont know how tyo use the search tool correctly. any way, my theory is this...

the three idiots are actually telling the truth. they did take natalee to the HI (fisherman hut, marriott area) and the sec guards from the soul beach concert were staying there(at the HI), that i confrimed. the company that was hired to provide security is ESSC. executive security service corp. they are a francihise, like a body shop with temp employees. i think that the sec guards took natalee, and removed her from the island in a trunk used for musical equipment or clothing. thats why there is no evidence. i will be looking into whether they have all employees pass background checks. and photos of all of their uniforms and a entire travel intinery. all flight schedules and if they had a private plane.. ESSC is run by clearance white.. phone number 678-364-8792..yesterday i contacted soul beach productions in california and spoke with ms. monica hall, she gave me the info on mr white. she was pleasant and seem willing to cooperate, about 5 minutes after my call to her.. they *69 ed me and i think they are a bit paranoid....the amount of ppl involved in the soul beach event was tremendous, they had to have private or chartered planess that only they have access to....your thoughts....

All that sounds believable.........but the one and only thing that takes me back to not knowing a damn thing is...............WHY THE CHANGE OF STORIES ............why....................i bet the beach story is the closest story to the truth...........but why all the other stories if they were not in fact involved in her dissapearnce.......if he was just an asshole and left her on the beach drunk and crying bc she turned him down for sex, or he raped her, then left her........ (yes that is a serious charge, crime) but she was alive when he left..........then you would think he would come clean about that and sweep away the murder charges pending against him...Just my opinion

it was widely reported yesterday that no one has changed their story.. only anita vds story is different, but she was in holland and might not know....

Oh ok, so the security guard that was in with deepak is lying? and made up that story? Unlikely.

deepak said there were sec guards wearing black clothing.. we searched all the soul beach photos yesterday and found that they many differnt uniforms...

Ok but you still haevnet answered to whether you then believe that the guard was lying about what deepak said in jail to him

kelly he said sec guards, they got the wrong guards...

[hobnailboot]

Hi.  I'm a new member, but I've been reading a lot here in the last few days and I just wanted to say "Hello" to everyone and to ask a question.  Night before last on FOX NEWS, they were previewing (on Shepard Smith's show) Beth Twitty's 90 minute meeting with the van der Sloot's at their home.  Greta said that during her show later Beth was tell why she felt like Natalee had been in the van der Sloot home the night she disappeared.  However, on Greta's show nothing more was mentioned about this that I heard.  Did I missundertand something, or not hear something at all?  Just wondering if anyone had any insight into this.
Thanks, and prayers for Natalee's safe return.

[Kelly]

Rob - Aren't you going to Aruba this weekend?

Also, what about the security shirt found on the beach?  Do you remember what color that was?  Any followup ever happen with that?

yes i am.. i am going to wait until after the guy from the caymans and the team from tx to do their search and if they find nothing i will go to the authorities with my theory...

You are going there ROB? To help with the search or something?

my vacation just happens to be the same time.. i always go in the summer and i also go for carnival in feb....

Oh wow...thats crazy...well do some investigatin for us and hop on at that internet cafe and keep us posted hahah..... JK ..have a good vaca

[heavyheart]

i was trying to find my post from yesterday, but dont know how tyo use the search tool correctly. any way, my theory is this...

the three idiots are actually telling the truth. they did take natalee to the HI (fisherman hut, marriott area) and the sec guards from the soul beach concert were staying there(at the HI), that i confrimed. the company that was hired to provide security is ESSC. executive security service corp. they are a francihise, like a body shop with temp employees. i think that the sec guards took natalee, and removed her from the island in a trunk used for musical equipment or clothing. thats why there is no evidence. i will be looking into whether they have all employees pass background checks. and photos of all of their uniforms and a entire travel intinery. all flight schedules and if they had a private plane.. ESSC is run by clearance white.. phone number 678-364-8792..yesterday i contacted soul beach productions in california and spoke with ms. monica hall, she gave me the info on mr white. she was pleasant and seem willing to cooperate, about 5 minutes after my call to her.. they *69 ed me and i think they are a bit paranoid....the amount of ppl involved in the soul beach event was tremendous, they had to have private or chartered planess that only they have access to....your thoughts....

All that sounds believable.........but the one and only thing that takes me back to not knowing a damn thing is...............WHY THE CHANGE OF STORIES ............why....................i bet the beach story is the closest story to the truth...........but why all the other stories if they were not in fact involved in her dissapearnce.......if he was just an asshole and left her on the beach drunk and crying bc she turned him down for sex, or he raped her, then left her........ (yes that is a serious charge, crime) but she was alive when he left..........then you would think he would come clean about that and sweep away the murder charges pending against him...Just my opinion

it was widely reported yesterday that no one has changed their story.. only anita vds story is different, but she was in holland and might not know....

I think mother Sloot is a bit out of it.  Not only would she not be in the loop because she was out of town but it also sounds like she doesn't know her son that well (what mother does when their son is that age?).  

As much as we (at least me) think they screwed up early on and potentially lost a lot of physical evidence, I do beleive the Aruban LE does have something on them.  

Keep in mind that in most crimes when multiple parties are suspected and questioned that they will have some trivial inconsistancies (when telling the truth).  Glaring differences in events/timelines and locations will give away a coverup.  Even my wife and I have different stories of how that trip to the grocery store went but we will still have the same general story regarding the timeline, location and people involved.

On a seperate note, maybe the Joran, father Sloot and headmaster meeting had to do with Joran showing up very late the day of his finals.  No one has stated that he got to school (or showed up for the bus) on time.

[MissyRose]

also- all 3 said they had szex with her... Inquiutos posted ap press release of 6/5 statement from 3 last night....
INQUITOS is great food source of info!!!

Really?
Where was this posted? I didn't expect that at all.

[iquitos]

fyi  if the only basis of the armchair remote narcissism psychonalisis is the hair plug let it be known this question was collectively parsed overnight by monkey brain power including in depth photo analysis and it was the general consensus that there are no hair plugs.  hair plug poster invoked father's baldness as further proof that the kid inherited baldness from dad but this trait is inherited through the female so that did not wash.  Appearance was attributed to jelled spiked hair combed forward.   in one picture of Joran and his friends they all had the same hairdo and it is unlikely that they are all premature implantees.

What about the rest of the profile? Sounds to me like it fits Joran to a tee.
And that could explain why his friends all say, Hey, he's a great guy. He couldn't do something like this. They said the same thing about Ted Bundy, as I recall.

I MYSELF POSITED JORAN'S SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION LAST NIGHT AFTER YOUR BEDTIME (AND MINE) IN THE CONTEXT OF JUG'S DESCRIPTION OF THEIR ENCOUNTER ON TUESDAY   AM,  JUG SAYS JOREN KEPT TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED WHILE HIS FATHER AND THE SURINAMER PRESENT (SATISH/DEEPAK?, THEY ALL LOOK ALIKE) WERE BEGGING HIM TO NOT SAY ANYMORE BECAUSE HE WAS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO SPEAK (REMEMBER JUG SAID THE COPS WERE MOSTLY IN CHARGE THOUGH VERY OUTNUMBERED BY ALABAMAN AMATEUR SLEUTHS "WE BASICALLY INTERROGATED HIM").   SO THIS MIGHT BE A SIGN OF SOCIOPATHIC CONDITION I.E. THINKING ONE CAN TALK ONE'S WAY OUT OF ANYTHING.   DO WE HAVE A PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR NATALEE THAT ALLOWS US TO DISCOUNT THE POSSIBILITY SHE RAN AWAY?   BOTTOM LINE, JORAN PROBABLY LIED ABOUT HI DROP OFF, BUT DOES THAT MAKE HIM A KILLER?   HE IS IN OVER HIS POSSIBLY SOCIOPATHIC HEAD.   AND SINCE HE IS A SOCIOPATH.  HE CAN'T HELP IT.  INSANITY DEFENCE ANYONE?

       FAMILY history of lunacy/suicides????

 WHICH FAMILY?

[dragonfly]

Hi.  I'm a new member, but I've been reading a lot here in the last few days and I just wanted to say "Hello" to everyone and to ask a question.  Night before last on FOX NEWS, they were previewing (on Shepard Smith's show) Beth Twitty's 90 minute meeting with the van der Sloot's at their home.  Greta said that during her show later Beth was tell why she felt like Natalee had been in the van der Sloot home the night she disappeared.  However, on Greta's show nothing more was mentioned about this that I heard.  Did I missundertand something, or not hear something at all?  Just wondering if anyone had any insight into this.
Thanks, and prayers for Natalee's safe return.

Hello there.  Welcome to SM!!  I heard things along that line too, but never heard the details about what she thinks or why.  I missed part of that show and haven't heard much else about that.  Maybe someone else here knows more.

[Rob]

Hi.  I'm a new member, but I've been reading a lot here in the last few days and I just wanted to say "Hello" to everyone and to ask a question.  Night before last on FOX NEWS, they were previewing (on Shepard Smith's show) Beth Twitty's 90 minute meeting with the van der Sloot's at their home.  Greta said that during her show later Beth was tell why she felt like Natalee had been in the van der Sloot home the night she disappeared.  However, on Greta's show nothing more was mentioned about this that I heard.  Did I missundertand something, or not hear something at all?  Just wondering if anyone had any insight into this.
Thanks, and prayers for Natalee's safe return.

thats still freaking everyone out ....your not alone....

[Enola Gay]

Rob - Aren't you going to Aruba this weekend?

Also, what about the security shirt found on the beach?  Do you remember what color that was?  Any followup ever happen with that?

It was reported that shirt was white

[nancy_drew]

also- all 3 said they had szex with her... Inquiutos posted ap press release of 6/5 statement from 3 last night....
INQUITOS is great food source of info!!! :lol:

Really?
Where was this posted? I didn't expect that at all.

Uhhhhhh....this is not confirmed.  Some last night were questioning the validity of the news report.

[friend of monkeys]

Okay, just stating my opinion here.  While I see the possibilities in the security guard theory, I personally don't subscribe to it.  I know it is possible and if that turns out to be the case, then I won't be shocked.  But I do believe that they have the right people in custody.  While we may not have "confirmation" that any of them have changed their stories, I remember the first story they told and how many have proven that to be untrue (security video, hotel security, Gretta and her tour of HI and the lobby, and Mickey John).  I personally found Mickey John to be believable.  I believe what he says about Deepak talking to him.  I believe him when he says the police made he and Deepak sign statements saying that they never knew each other before then and that Deepak apologized to him.  Now I have Joran's mother telling what her son told her and I believe her too.  So, I believe there are at least 2 lying people in jail.  No, lying does not make anyone a killer, but it does prove there is something to hide.  No, if she is dead it does not mean they "murdered" her, but they have covered up something here and they should come clean with whatever they know.  There are some questions surrounding PVDS that I feel should be answered.  Maybe he did not realize what he was helping his son with, but I believe he knows something more.  I don't look at these 3 boys and see cold-blooded murderers (very well could have been an accident and they are scared to death), but I do see that they are hiding something and it needs to be told.  Just my opinion.

DRAGONFLY>>>
then back to wwwiizzzz... he siad "look to the brothers..forget the dutch"
then we got confused on the brothers stories...and now perhaps step brother???  my brain needs an adjustment!!! and more coffee.

[heavyheart]

Hi.  I'm a new member, but I've been reading a lot here in the last few days and I just wanted to say "Hello" to everyone and to ask a question.  Night before last on FOX NEWS, they were previewing (on Shepard Smith's show) Beth Twitty's 90 minute meeting with the van der Sloot's at their home.  Greta said that during her show later Beth was tell why she felt like Natalee had been in the van der Sloot home the night she disappeared.  However, on Greta's show nothing more was mentioned about this that I heard.  Did I missundertand something, or not hear something at all?  Just wondering if anyone had any insight into this.
Thanks, and prayers for Natalee's safe return.

You are correct.  There was no mention of Beth's feeling regarding that subject on Greta's show.

[iquitos]

Hi.  I'm a new member, but I've been reading a lot here in the last few days and I just wanted to say "Hello" to everyone and to ask a question.  Night before last on FOX NEWS, they were previewing (on Shepard Smith's show) Beth Twitty's 90 minute meeting with the van der Sloot's at their home.  Greta said that during her show later Beth was tell why she felt like Natalee had been in the van der Sloot home the night she disappeared.  However, on Greta's show nothing more was mentioned about this that I heard.  Did I missundertand something, or not hear something at all?  Just wondering if anyone had any insight into this.
Thanks, and prayers for Natalee's safe return.

A LOT OF US THOUGHT WE HEARD THE SAME THING YOU DID AND DISCUSSED IT HERE WITH GREAT EXCITEMENT.  MUST HAVE BEEN JUST ANOTHER FOX TEASER AND IT WORKED.  WE WATCHED AND WER LET DOWN, AGAIN, BY ANOTHER FOX PAS.

[chloe2]

Okay, just stating my opinion here.  While I see the possibilities in the security guard theory, I personally don't subscribe to it.  I know it is possible and if that turns out to be the case, then I won't be shocked.  But I do believe that they have the right people in custody.  While we may not have "confirmation" that any of them have changed their stories, I remember the first story they told and how many have proven that to be untrue (security video, hotel security, Gretta and her tour of HI and the lobby, and Mickey John).  I personally found Mickey John to be believable.  I believe what he says about Deepak talking to him.  I believe him when he says the police made he and Deepak sign statements saying that they never knew each other before then and that Deepak apologized to him.  Now I have Joran's mother telling what her son told her and I believe her too.  So, I believe there are at least 2 lying people in jail.  No, lying does not make anyone a killer, but it does prove there is something to hide.  No, if she is dead it does not mean they "murdered" her, but they have covered up something here and they should come clean with whatever they know.  There are some questions surrounding PVDS that I feel should be answered.  Maybe he did not realize what he was helping his son with, but I believe he knows something more.  I don't look at these 3 boys and see cold-blooded murderers (very well could have been an accident and they are scared to death), but I do see that they are hiding something and it needs to be told.  Just my opinion.

Hi Dragonfly -- I tend to agree with you. I don't think anyone is telling the whole truth by any means. I wish desperately that the theories and speculations that Natalee is still alive somewhere would be true, but I can't say I truly believe it. I'm also not entirely convinced the three boys are responsible for what happened to her. But what do I know? Not a heck of a lot. We can noodle through the few facts we have all day long, but it still comes down to that -- we know only that Natalee is still missing and these three guys were seen with her. I just hope the investigators know more than we do!