RBN #19 - 6/23/05

[writenow]

Just curious, but when and where did Deepak en Joran meet and got the chance to talk to eachother after they were put behind bars?Or was it before, and is it a rumor or stated somewhere?

They were all put in the same cell when they were first arrested on June 9.

Oww I didn't know, but it sounds really stupid

Might not have been so stupid. they could have bugged the cell and caught the whole thing on tape.  

[Lausa]

I apologize in advance, if some of you find this tiresome, but early this morning it occurred to me that Joran van der Sloot may fit the classical pattern of a narcissistic personality.

While interesting to read about the narcissistic personality, I do not think we know enough to pass this judgement.  Even if I were a trained psychologist, I'd be hesitant to use this label lightly.

[LilOrphan]

Aww thanks writenow!

It's okay, Cali likes to play with the opinionally challenged every now and then. lol  

But...you're nice to nearly everyone...does this mean we're all "opinionally challenged?"  I'm off to "Orphan-Land" now, which means it's open season for conjecture on my spirituality, children, parenting style and tears.  Thanks for the assist earlier and see ya later.

Nooo Orphan!!!!!!!!! lol

I was speaking about the troll.... lol Not you guys!!

Aw, I know. Just giving ya a friendly kind of grief! For..*ahem* contrast and stuff.  BBL.

[Brenda]

Brenda, it's not ever, EVER allright to post people's phone numbers on a message boards, just because their last name happens to coincide with a member of the prosecution.

Ever think about that?

You are so right!

and then it is not alright to misquote me...i have NEVER put the croes name on the internet....but have provided the links to anyone listed in the phone book.

i AM guilty of posting all publicly listed numbers for all Aruban officials, as well as the VDS family and Kelpoe family.....  They deserve to be contacted - and if you were to quote me correctly - in writing....

A mass quantity of mail - and i did suggest snail mail - to these families is not a bad idea.  If they have any morals at all they would demand their sons tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Quote me correctly next time, ok?  I am quite sure you are capable of that....

She said people's not Croes.

and do you know of any arrestee with same name as an official other than croe????  

IS ok....I don't have "wittle" feelings in danger of being damaged any time in the future.

HOwever, the point i was making is that NATALEE IS MISSING, AND NEEDS TO BE FOUND.

1.  pressure needs to be maintained.
2.  arrests have occurred due to the pressure - even by mama vds's admission.
3.  it is high time that Mrs Beth Holloway Twitty gets to either get her daughter back alive, and if not alive - home for a decent Christian burial.

Unfortunately - I believe this is a case of a rape gone bad, with sonny boy being the culprit and papa helping to cover.  It seems that I may not be alone in these thoughts since pressure is being applied from all over the world - and the fact that sonny and papa are now sitting in jail.

I would love to believe that mama vds still believes taht sonny is innocent - but I don't.  She isn't a stupid woman - she is college educated.  It is time for her to demand (from sonny/hubby) that Beth at least gets the body back to bury.  

And if contacting the family is offensive - as in putting on "unfair" pressure - then so be it.  My vote is to end the pressure on Natalee's family.

[Y'alls Psychic Detective]

and then it is not alright to misquote me (I'm an idiot!)...i have NEVER put the croes name on the internet....but have provided the links to anyone listed in the phone book.(Yes, I'm an idiot!)

i AM guilty of posting all publicly listed numbers for all Aruban officials, as well as the VDS family and Kelpoe family.....  They deserve to be contacted - and if you were to quote me correctly - in writing....

A mass quantity of mail - and i did suggest snail mail - to these families is not a bad idea.  If they have any morals at all they would demand their sons tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Quote me correctly next time, ok?  I am quite sure you are capable of that....

Yo mama, you fo' rizeal??  That's wack!  Quit your woobangin'!  You feel me?  

I'm audi 5.0.

[nancy_drew]

Anita...Anita...Anita...

I personally don't think she's oblivious, or stupid...or in denial.

I think she knows there's a possiblity Joran is guilty.  But, she's been with the Dad for a long time. What was he telling her?  Did the dad say Joran is innocent to her? Frankly, I suspect Joran was a rather normal teen...within the range of normal...she has to feel like she's been hit with a brick.  I do believe she trusts that her son is innocent.  What would lead her to believe he isn't?  He got good grades, good athlete, well liked, going to college...what indication would she have that he would murder someone?  

I think most women are very intuitive.  She knows there is a chance he's involved...but, not because he has a "history"...but due to reality.  

I have made no comments about date rape drugs...because I know very little about them.   But, what if she died due to a reaction to the drug vs. him losing it if she said "no" to his advances?  Both are criminal, but come from very different personality disorders.

[absolut]

I live on the periphery of the world and we do not receive FOX here - can someone tell me what Greta is going to be talking about or to whom tonight. Thanks

She will be interviewing the mother of the Kalpoe's brothers.

And possibly the 2nd part of the VDS interview which could be very telling since it is the PVDS portion. Not sure if she will be allowed to air it.

[AZLady]

Professor, I think that's very interesting.  Anita is the picture of a narcissist's mother who believes her child is perfect and would never do anything wrong.  She truly believes this--it isn't an act or a game.  A narcissist's father, however, is generally uninvolved with the family and a quiet bystander, while the mother is the strong personality.  I'm not sure about this father.  He's hiding much of his personality from the media as we have conflicting reports of his behavior.   We see him mild and quiet at one time, and hear of him being obnoxious and far from mild at others.  Something doesn't quite fit.

[Terry]

What is the buzz??? what do we all think???  Something 'bad' happened and Joran didn't know what to do - so he called Dad and they conspired together to not ruin the family name???

Well, I'm beginning to wonder this.  If there is rumor that the brothers are going to be released (I know that's not even close to being confirmed) and all of the other recent events point me in that direction.  There was Deepak and Satish changing their story and placing JVDS as the last one with her on the beach.  There was talk of changing stories in the interrogation of the 3 all together where Joran was saying one of the brothers picked him up and when they denied that he said the other brother did.  Then there is daddy being arrested.  I think the brothers tried to cover Joran's a-s until it got to hot and then turned on him.  Maybe Deepak got Croes to try to be an alibi by saying he saw them drop them off and that's why he was held.  But I think this may be coming down to Joran and his daddy.

WELL DRAGONFLY There very well could be more folks involved.  But Joran was the one who supposedly was with her.  Whether it was just kissing or more.  I too would think it boils down to those 2 - Joran & Dad.
And let's face it, most parents who are known to spoil their children do anything and everything to help make matters worse.

My cousins are spoiled rotten and both of their parents have gotten them out of trouble time and time again...and guess what, the trouble never ends.  If someone is going to pick up the pieces for you, what the hell, have at it.

I couldn't have put it better!  Did you read this caligirl? Arubagirl?

I pray for your sake, lady, that no one in your family ever has any type of legal issues or problems.

ArubaGirl: I know that you know that not all Anericans are this judgemental.

Just in case I was misunderstood, I am not judging anyone...or at least trying not to.  I feel very strongly that JVDS and PVDS are hiding something and know much much more than they have been willing to tell so far, but I really don't think AVDS knows anything.  I also don't think she is a horrible mother for letting her son get away with gambling, drinking and partying on school nights either.  We don't know the WHOLE story, for one thing.  (Maybe it's not ok with Anita but ok with Paulus that Joran is out late and drinking)  I know that there have been times when I've let my kids do something I really didn't WANT them to do, but "all the kids are doing it" has pursuaded me on occasion to let loose a little bit.  For instance, I don't let my daughter (14) party all night or be anywhere I don't know about, but I did let her get her naval pierced "because all the kids are doing it."  Don't most of the young people in Aruba drink and party like Joran?  I am not defending anyone or judging anyone.  I do feel very sorry for AVDS.  I can see she is just tore up about this.

Oh girl. I totally understood you.   You couldn't be more right about the post in question.... been there done that!!

[inspector_detector]

I apologize in advance, if some of you find this tiresome, but early this morning it occurred to me that Joran van der Sloot may fit the classical pattern of a narcissistic personality.

You mean someone like John Kerry!      

[RB]

Brenda, let's lighten up.  Move on in the conversation.

[klaasend]

I apologize in advance, if some of you find this tiresome, but early this morning it occurred to me that Joran van der Sloot may fit the classical pattern of a narcissistic personality.

For those who want to skip the remainder of this post, please feel free to do so.

Where is that "hear no evil" emoticon when you need it?  ()

[coco]

Jug Twitty specifically said that both PVDS and Deepak told Joran not to talk - of course, I found Jug less than reliable as a witness - too much distress leading to too much "go in with the posse" Jug also said that Joran offered to help search.

I think we should all remember that we know nothing more than we knew before - and it really is absurd to try to diagnose someone's psyche solely from Fox news and hearsay.  (she's an art teacher so she's in a world of her own, etc - really now!)

I have no idea what happened to Natalee and I, like all here, hope she is found safe and sound but I also find it disturbing that folks keep ignoring the differences in the legal system - Greta made a big point in her comments after the PVDS arrest that this did not mean the same as an arrest does in the US. As someone else pointed out, in the US none of these folks would have been arrested yet (at least given what little we know about the case) but in Aruban law, people are arrested for questioning.

It is thoroughly possible that the issue that led to PVDS arrest is that his comments do not line up with the boys' stories - and the versions of the boys' stories we've heard are all secondhand and provided by people with axes to grind - Anita, Kalpoes' mom, etc. or from MSM trying to break a story.

 I guess I still believe innocent til proven guilty is a mighty good idea.

[writenow]

ACTUALLY PEOPLE this is not about Aruba or the US it is about people who aren't perfect - maybe even did something horrible.  Panicked and didn't know what to do.  And children (I'm sure) from any country could be spoiled and allowed to get away with whatever.    Remember the Beth interview at the VDS with Greta - she went over there nicely - not like a lunatic.  She wants to know.  And when she left she said she felt as if Natalee had been in that house.  Let's focus.

voice of reason. Thanks!

[absolut]

What medication was in Natalee's bag in the hotel room?

[HannieC]

da wench wrote:

Just in case I was misunderstood, I am not judging anyone...or at least trying not to. I feel very strongly that JVDS and PVDS are hiding something and know much much more than they have been willing to tell so far, but I really don't think AVDS knows anything. I also don't think she is a horrible mother for letting her son get away with gambling, drinking and partying on school nights either. We don't know the WHOLE story, for one thing. (Maybe it's not ok with Anita but ok with Paulus that Joran is out late and drinking) I know that there have been times when I've let my kids do something I really didn't WANT them to do, but "all the kids are doing it" has pursuaded me on occasion to let loose a little bit. For instance, I don't let my daughter (14) party all night or be anywhere I don't know about, but I did let her get her naval pierced "because all the kids are doing it." Don't most of the young people in Aruba drink and party like Joran? I am not defending anyone or judging anyone. I do feel very sorry for AVDS. I can see she is just tore up about this.

Amen to that da wench!!

I think you are right about that, sometimes one of the parents are much easier on their kids and let them go out when mama /papa don`t agree.
I think that`s human and happens al the time.

[puggywug]

You have to admit this Joran Van Der Sloot is one cool customer. If we are to believe he killed Natalee. Look at his immediate actions.

1. He shows up at school the next day and brags about having sex with Natalee.

2. He's back at the casino the next night gambling.

3. When the Twittys show up he was willing to talk to them, it was his dad and Deepak that kept saying "don't say anything"

4. He tells his mom that prison isn't so bad, and that when Natalee shows up he's gonna kick her butt in front of Beth because of all the trouble she's gotten him into.

For a 17 yr old that just comitted a murder? This guy is rock solid.

You're right in that things are just not adding up easily AT ALL. On one hand, I would agree with you that it seems unlikely he killed the victim and then jumped right back into his life (school, gambling, etc.). On the other hand, if he is a sociopath, he will not react in a "normal" way. As an example, for those of us who think Scott Peterson is guilty of killing his pregnant wife, he was ruthlessly and shamelessly macking on his new girlfriend immediately after murdering his wife.

This is one confusing mystery, all right.

[Mom in Ark]

I apologize in advance, if some of you find this tiresome, but early this morning it occurred to me that Joran van der Sloot may fit the classical pattern of a narcissistic personality.

While interesting to read about the narcissistic personality, I do not think we know enough to pass this judgement.  Even if I were a trained psychologist, I'd be hesitant to use this label lightly.

This has been covered and argued about once today, lets not wade through it again.

[writenow]

Jug Twitty specifically said that both PVDS and Deepak told Joran not to talk - of course, I found Jug less than reliable as a witness - too much distress leading to too much "go in with the posse" Jug also said that Joran offered to help search.

Of course Jug Twitty was the one talking to the vdSloots and Deepak because Beth was in the car. He might be a pretty good witness. He would have heard both telling Joran to shut up.

[veme]

Dear Arubagirl,
A couple of nights ago you stated I believe, that you thought NH was alive.
I would love to know why you think that.
I find your point of view interesting.
I would have PM'd you but it's been disabled.
Thanks.
veme