RBN #19 - 6/23/05

[Sleeks]

2. JVDS testified that he and NH went for a swim and after that whey walked bak to the hotel, where he walked home and NH to Holiday Inn, which is just a few 100 meters away. Easiest if you walk on the beach, there is a walkway connecting all hotels from the beach area. He insists he left her there.

THIS PART IS E*X*T*R*E*M*E*L*Y* HARD TO BELIEVE!!!  Sorry to say folks - I cannot imagine what circumstances would make for a young man to just leave a girl (well known or not) off NEAR her hotel.
DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

[bogey_blusey_chaston]

I felt sorry for Joran's mom when she talked with Greta...

Then this morning the talked with Matt on the Today Show and it was a different story.  I no longer feel sorry for that lady.

Did anyone else see her this morning?

No, do tell please.........

I didn't feel sorry for her one bit when I watched her interview.  I could sense SOMETHING was up her sleeve.  Too emotional and the father was too quiet.  Way too quiet.

Can someone give some details of this Today Show interview?  I can't access video with my slow connection.

She came across as someone concealing a lot of information. That's the way she seemed to me. Like she was telling everyone what a wonderful son she had, but at the same time it was almost like she was mentally shoving down the fact that he was involved in this. She had very twitchy gestures, like she was trying to avoid her son's involvement. It just wasn't the passionate, firm, indignant maybe even angry attitude you would expect a mother to have if she REALLY believed her son was TOTALLY innocent. Mother's are very protective. But when they REALLY believe their child is innocent and wrongly accused, they are MAD. She wasn't like that.

Kinda like the security guard who was initially arrested, his mom was on the first night, and shrieking, raising her hands in the air, very animated., and stating "my son had NOTHING to do with this". Eh?

[DivaToo]

b_b_c: (quote)
1. You fear the retribution of another party (unbeknownst at this time) more than you fear the authorities
2. You think you can get away with the activity scott free.
3. You fear what your truth's will do to your family/loved ones.

No. 1 is the only possibility that is an answer to, "If innocent, why are they choosing not to exonerate themselves?  And a sound one.

No. 2 is an answer only under the cirmcumstance they are responsible (guilty), therefore doesn't apply to question posed.

No. 3's a bit off, if innocent.  What is happening to their families/loved ones today is much worse than if they would exonerate themselves.  If they are responsible and worried about what truth will do to families, again doesn't apply to question.

But your 1st option is the only explanation I can imagine as to why they are allowing the waters to remain muddy.

Maybe the 3 DO fear someone else more than the cushy KIA

And PapaSmurf probably told Joran that w/o a body he will most likely be set free as long as he never folds, and Nat's Fam will eventually go home. Maybe he helped dispose of her so this would happen, him being a judge to be/ lawyer and all he Knows no body=no jail

[DivaToo]

I felt sorry for Joran's mom when she talked with Greta...

Then this morning the talked with Matt on the Today Show and it was a different story.  I no longer feel sorry for that lady.

Did anyone else see her this morning?

No, do tell please.........

I didn't feel sorry for her one bit when I watched her interview.  I could sense SOMETHING was up her sleeve.  Too emotional and the father was too quiet.  Way too quiet.

Can someone give some details of this Today Show interview?  I can't access video with my slow connection.

She came across as someone concealing a lot of information. That's the way she seemed to me. Like she was telling everyone what a wonderful son she had, but at the same time it was almost like she was mentally shoving down the fact that he was involved in this. She had very twitchy gestures, like she was trying to avoid her son's involvement. It just wasn't the passionate, firm, indignant maybe even angry attitude you would expect a mother to have if she REALLY believed her son was TOTALLY innocent. Mother's are very protective. But when they REALLY believe their child is innocent and wrongly accused, they are MAD. She wasn't like that.

Kinda like the security guard who was initially arrested, his mom was on the first night, and shrieking, raising her hands in the air, very animated., and stating "my son had NOTHING to do with this". Eh?

Right, Good Point

[Scott]

Scott wrote:

The 'jury' in this case is the American tourist, responsible for nearly 80% of Aruba's tourism revenue.
JVDS may well find himself safer in prison over the next 10-20 years than a walking target for anyone intent on seeing justice served.

So b/c the 'american tourist'  is responsible for tourism on aruba, that gives them the right to prosecute and sentence a boy with them selfs
even without any prove or something? Sounds like taking the rights in your own hands! We don`t live in the middleages anymore fyi!!

I'm not suggesting it's right.  We live in a civilized society based on law and order.  I'm also being real.  What do you think happens when some friends or family of Natalee's, or even some deranged lunatic, run into Joran alone at night?  I think he and his family, as well as the Kalpoe kids, have every reason to fear for their safety if they are exonerated.

The reason Aruba is under such scrutiny from the American media is because the island, for all intents and purposes, is a Dutch protectorate leased to America for their tourism and leisure.  This dynamic is responsible for the tension that presently exists.

[asdf]

In my opinion.. I would think that a mother could very easily tell when their child is lying..at least I can tell with my kids.. my son got accused of something in school...got kicked out for 3 freakin days to boot.. I questioned the hell out of him...I rarely ever see my son cry.. but he did..I could tell he was telling the truth. had a big fight with the school and ended up having to call the PD in my area...PD stuck up for me and my son.. the school dropped the crap cause they had NO proof.. and it was ALL over a damn computer speaker.. he was the last to be seen near it.. and was being accused of stealing it cause it disappeared the same damn day... Other kids had stories of other kids touching it.. taking it. etc.....
IF I thought my kid was guilty.. he would have been paying to replace this thihng himself out of his own money.. Im not sticking up for JVS mother...but I would think if she does get to visit.. and perhaps hear him speak.. as a mother she could tell if hes lying or not.. hes 17... unless hes fooled her all of his life!

Mark Hacking was a fool.

[inthepacific]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

ahh it was her hair on one side causing her to rock and sweat on the other side------

no, no, the interview took place on a boat, which caused her to sway back and forth. Rumors have it...after the interview she was sea sick.
 
 

[Red]

I felt sorry for Joran's mom when she talked with Greta...

Then this morning the talked with Matt on the Today Show and it was a different story.  I no longer feel sorry for that lady.

Did anyone else see her this morning?

No, do tell please.........

I didn't feel sorry for her one bit when I watched her interview.  I could sense SOMETHING was up her sleeve.  Too emotional and the father was too quiet.  Way too quiet.

Can someone give some details of this Today Show interview?  I can't access video with my slow connection.

She came across as someone concealing a lot of information. That's the way she seemed to me. Like she was telling everyone what a wonderful son she had, but at the same time it was almost like she was mentally shoving down the fact that he was involved in this. She had very twitchy gestures, like she was trying to avoid her son's involvement. It just wasn't the passionate, firm, indignant maybe even angry attitude you would expect a mother to have if she REALLY believed her son was TOTALLY innocent. Mother's are very protective. But when they REALLY believe their child is innocent and wrongly accused, they are MAD. She wasn't like that.

Felt sorry for her, really? I mean other than a mom believing nothing of what her son maybe capable ... ok, I'll buy that but thats about it. Folks this is a small island. When I lived there I could not go anywhere without running into someone who knew me or my parents or a friend ... etc. The mom would have to know that Joran was in the casino's, bars, etc.

That interview was so contrived yesterday because the appointment was made during the 90 minute interview the day before. Beth did not show but if you notice the VDS's went from wanting no cameras the day before to full camera action the next day.

She claims his innocence but he still was 1 of 3 last to see Natalee and has no explanation that holds. Nightmare!!! Nightmare is when your child vanishes w/o a trace, not when your son may be responsible for the disappearance or has direct knowledge to what may have happened.

[Compananzi]

tkubi7



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Buffalo, NY
 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
If Aruban LE knew something, wouldn't they share it w/FBI to try to solve the case? If so, why then is FBI pulling out?

because they want the credit since it is their country and the FBI is acknowledging that....just thinking

maybe the fbi is leaving in order to explore my theory more indeptly.. after all the perptrators have left the island....

Maybe the first shift if leaving and a second one is on its way?

[DivaToo]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

i ve been i sales for 20 years..i think i know body language.....

And what do you think?

[KackyLacky]

That's what I'm wondering, when the Twittys showed up at the VDS home at midnight-ish on 5/30, were the VDS's already aware that Natalee was missing, or was this "news". It might be very insightful to know that. Thanks for the input. By the way, I grew up in Cahaba Heights, and my family still lives in B'ham, so I'm very interested in this case. Could've happened to almost any girl I knew in high school, including myself.

In the first local TV show, about Natalee dissaperance most Arubians were dumbfounded, as if the message was not clear...see the poster..

://www.geocities.com/dutch_on_aruba/nhposter

in my opinion, just more garbage about Natalee, victim or not. I think it was done by some image editing program. No different than the other rumors that have been proven to be lies. I think you and those who keep trying to get this poster on TV are sick. Unless it is acknowledged by Natalee's family I think you should stop this nonsense. Even if they do acknowledge responsibility for it, so what?. I would try anything to appeal to my daughter or son or spouse for that fact. Do you want to know the nickname for them?....for my spouse-Booty. so there  

Sorry this is the first ill post I have made, I apologize.

[bogey_blusey_chaston]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

I have heard that during interviews, if a person looks down and to the left they are lying.

[joebob]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

Maybe she had to pee.

[writenow]

What do you expect him to say to his mother?

Mom:  Joran, did you have anything, anything at all, to do with this girl disapperance?
Joran:  Well, mom....
Mom:  Joran, please...
Joran:  Yeah, mom,  I had everything to do with it...
I mean seriously.  How is this news?  If I killed someone I would tell my mother I was innocent as well.
Jeez....

A mother knows where her kid is lying. They've got eyes in the back of their head and instincts better than any known radar. If she'd questioned, she could have cracked him and may very well have done just that. Which would mean now she would have to hide the fact he's done something awful.

so maybe it was more along the lines of:

Mom: Did you do something to her?
Joran: No! I swear, Mom!
Mom: Joran! Don't you even THINK about lying to me! Did you do something to that girl?
Joran: It was an accident. I swear!

Remember, too, this woman is a SCHOOL TEACHER. She's heard it all, seen it. Excuses up the ying yang. She knows when a student or her own kid is lying like a rock.

I think she knows he was involved and she's having a hard time reconciling that with the image she wants her son to be.

[Compananzi]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

i ve been i sales for 20 years..i think i know body language.....

And what do you think?

Im no body language interpreter or profiler, but if I d take a guess I d say those might have been uncomforatble or hard chairs? I dunno, J.A.F.O...

[tuberide]

trimmer wrote:
This was posted on Riehl today.

This is what the latest we got from a reporter who is known on the island to get confidential info from his friends in the police department.
1. All three guys agreed they left JVDS and NH near the Marriot on that night.
2. JVDS testified that he and NH went for a swim and after that whey walked bak to the hotel, where he walked home and NH to Holiday Inn, which is just a few 100 meters away. Easiest if you walk on the beach, there is a walkway connecting all hotels from the beach area. He insists he left her there.

Assuming that this may have happened,  can anyone remember which hotel had a security video showing a girl walking on the beach by herself that night?  could that have been Natalee walking back to her hotel?  I am not sure which hotel reported that.  I wonder if it is logical location.

That was the HYATT which is 2 properites down from the Marrioot, 1 from the HI but it was never indicated what TIME that snap was taken.......

This is a variation on the Sweaty-black-Rastasharians-killed-Natalee theory, in case you missed it.

Doesn't have to be a Rastas. Couldn't it have been someone who saw her go off with "locals" and wasn't too happy about it?

RASTA'S!!! more like HIP HOP nation.....a true rasta is a religious person -

[Angiex911dsptchr]

In my opinion.. I would think that a mother could very easily tell when their child is lying..at least I can tell with my kids.. my son got accused of something in school...got kicked out for 3 freakin days to boot.. I questioned the hell out of him...I rarely ever see my son cry.. but he did..I could tell he was telling the truth. had a big fight with the school and ended up having to call the PD in my area...PD stuck up for me and my son.. the school dropped the crap cause they had NO proof.. and it was ALL over a damn computer speaker.. he was the last to be seen near it.. and was being accused of stealing it cause it disappeared the same damn day... Other kids had stories of other kids touching it.. taking it. etc.....
IF I thought my kid was guilty.. he would have been paying to replace this thihng himself out of his own money.. Im not sticking up for JVS mother...but I would think if she does get to visit.. and perhaps hear him speak.. as a mother she could tell if hes lying or not.. hes 17... unless hes fooled her all of his life!

Mark Hacking was a fool.

I had to sit and think about that for a minute.. forgot who Mark was.. Anyhow.. sorry for rambling on about my kid.. has nothng to do with this..but as a mother.. a mother will stick by her kid if she truly belives their innocence.. OH and trust me.. my kid is 15 and no angel,, I know when he is lying and when he isnt..

[MissyRose]

I really thinking beating up on the parents is unecessary. Both sides of parents to me are guilty in this case IF WE want to blame parents.

[heavyheart]

let s sum it up..

23 days,
no evidence.
no forensics.
no confession.
and no idea what the hell happened....

it s hard to believe

You pretty much summed it up. That's all they have so far.

I think that should say...that's all WE have so far.

[sandraK]

Darn FOX..More AD'S for "Breaking Storys"..
than Content in the Storys