RBN #19 - 6/23/05

[tuberide]

tkubi7



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Buffalo, NY
 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
If Aruban LE knew something, wouldn't they share it w/FBI to try to solve the case? If so, why then is FBI pulling out?

because they want the credit since it is their country and the FBI is acknowledging that....just thinking

maybe the fbi is leaving in order to explore my theory more indeptly.. after all the perptrators have left the island....

please quit posting that this is all "your" theory....others were involved

[jac723]

let s sum it up..

23 days,
no evidence.
no forensics.
no confession.
and no idea what the hell happened....

it s hard to believe

Back to a ? I had early this morning--

Did the police or anyone go to the McD's where JVDS and PVDS were.  Did they ? the employees working that day on the late shift--ask if JVDS was there--if alone or with someone and/or others.  Or maybe take pics of people--NH, JVDS, PVDS, DK, SK, SC --have the employees ID any pics of those they saw.  And also ? if were there-what time was it?

[asdf]

In my opinion.. I would think that a mother could very easily tell when their child is lying..at least I can tell with my kids.. my son got accused of something in school...got kicked out for 3 freakin days to boot.. I questioned the hell out of him...I rarely ever see my son cry.. but he did..I could tell he was telling the truth. had a big fight with the school and ended up having to call the PD in my area...PD stuck up for me and my son.. the school dropped the crap cause they had NO proof.. and it was ALL over a damn computer speaker.. he was the last to be seen near it.. and was being accused of stealing it cause it disappeared the same damn day... Other kids had stories of other kids touching it.. taking it. etc.....
IF I thought my kid was guilty.. he would have been paying to replace this thihng himself out of his own money.. Im not sticking up for JVS mother...but I would think if she does get to visit.. and perhaps hear him speak.. as a mother she could tell if hes lying or not.. hes 17... unless hes fooled her all of his life!

Mark Hacking was a fool.

I had to sit and think about that for a minute.. forgot who Mark was.. Anyhow.. sorry for rambling on about my kid.. has nothng to do with this..but as a mother.. a mother will stick by her kid if she truly belives their innocence.. OH and trust me.. my kid is 15 and no angel,, I know when he is lying and when he isnt..

Mark killed his wife and fooled his whole family into thinking he was a smart super genius.  And he had fooled them his whole life.  Fool=Lied.

[CancunMole]

trimmer wrote:
This was posted on Riehl today.

This is what the latest we got from a reporter who is known on the island to get confidential info from his friends in the police department.
1. All three guys agreed they left JVDS and NH near the Marriot on that night.
2. JVDS testified that he and NH went for a swim and after that whey walked bak to the hotel, where he walked home and NH to Holiday Inn, which is just a few 100 meters away. Easiest if you walk on the beach, there is a walkway connecting all hotels from the beach area. He insists he left her there.

Assuming that this may have happened,  can anyone remember which hotel had a security video showing a girl walking on the beach by herself that night?  could that have been Natalee walking back to her hotel?  I am not sure which hotel reported that.  I wonder if it is logical location.

That was the HYATT which is 2 properites down from the Marrioot, 1 from the HI but it was never indicated what TIME that snap was taken.......

This is a variation on the Sweaty-black-Rastasharians-killed-Natalee theory, in case you missed it.

Totally uncalled for.

I did not write that!!!! I wrote the Hyatt thing.

[LilOrphan]

let s sum it up..

23 days,
no evidence.
no forensics.
no confession.
and no idea what the hell happened....

it s hard to believe

You pretty much summed it up. That's all they have so far.

Maybe that's all  we have, but not LE and the FBI.

[chloe2]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

That's absurd. Elephants rock back and forth to the rhythm of their heartbeat when in cages. Have you ever been on TV? It's nerve wracking. I'm amazed at the 'psychological profiles' people are randomly sketching based on nothing.

[DivaToo]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

i ve been i sales for 20 years..i think i know body language.....

And what do you think?

Im no body language interpreter or profiler, but if I d take a guess I d say those might have been uncomforatble or hard chairs? I dunno, J.A.F.O...

She looked as if she were standing, and swaying...like the old hippies used to on acid  

[inthepacific]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

i ve been i sales for 20 years..i think i know body language.....

And what do you think?

Im no body language interpreter or profiler, but if I d take a guess I d say those might have been uncomforatble or hard chairs? I dunno, J.A.F.O...

I think she was standing throught the interview and on a boat. Only logical conclusion for the swaying. But I have to agree, she may have had to go pee,  

[RichinTx]

let s sum it up..

23 days,
no evidence.
no forensics.
no confession.
and no idea what the hell happened....

it s hard to believe

CORRECTION

no evidence. that you know of
no forensics. that you know of
no confession. that you know of

[tuberide]

ATTN: PROFESSOR.

WE GET IT.
THE FAMILY IS NARCISSISTIC.
POINT MADE.
PLEASE MOVE ON.
ONE POST WITHOUT THE WORD NARCISSISM IN IT.
JUST ONE.
PLEASE.

that was narcisisisiisstic of you bigcountry

[heavyheart]

2. JVDS testified that he and NH went for a swim and after that whey walked bak to the hotel, where he walked home and NH to Holiday Inn, which is just a few 100 meters away. Easiest if you walk on the beach, there is a walkway connecting all hotels from the beach area. He insists he left her there.

THIS PART IS E*X*T*R*E*M*E*L*Y* HARD TO BELIEVE!!!  Sorry to say folks - I cannot imagine what circumstances would make for a young man to just leave a girl (well known or not) off NEAR her hotel.
DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

Although I might get flamed for this.  Natalee was wearing a skirt and halter-top...not swimming attire if you ask me.  I also don't think she is the type of lady that would just take it all off and run into the ocean.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

What do you expect him to say to his mother?

Mom:  Joran, did you have anything, anything at all, to do with this girl disapperance?
Joran:  Well, mom....
Mom:  Joran, please...
Joran:  Yeah, mom,  I had everything to do with it...
I mean seriously.  How is this news?  If I killed someone I would tell my mother I was innocent as well.
Jeez....

A mother knows where her kid is lying. They've got eyes in the back of their head and instincts better than any known radar. If she'd questioned, she could have cracked him and may very well have done just that. Which would mean now she would have to hide the fact he's done something awful.

so maybe it was more along the lines of:

Mom: Did you do something to her?
Joran: No! I swear, Mom!
Mom: Joran! Don't you even THINK about lying to me! Did you do something to that girl?
Joran: It was an accident. I swear!

Remember, too, this woman is a SCHOOL TEACHER. She's heard it all, seen it. Excuses up the ying yang. She knows when a student or her own kid is lying like a rock.

I think she knows he was involved and she's having a hard time reconciling that with the image she wants her son to be.

Nice post.. a point I was trying to make also

[chloe2]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

I have heard that during interviews, if a person looks down and to the left they are lying.

OR MAYBE they are trying to hear what's being said into their headset!

[katya]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

That's absurd. Elephants rock back and forth to the rhythm of their heartbeat when in cages. Have you ever been on TV? It's nerve wracking. I'm amazed at the 'psychological profiles' people are randomly sketching based on nothing.

I agree. I also think she looked like she was fairly heavily tranquilized.

[Twelve Monkeys]

This is in the Theory and Speculation thread, check it out.


By Dutchlady.


I believe that the situation was that the father was out, and did not see the dogs bark and the gate open and the car come to take Joran back to the nightclub as his mother states she is the disciplinarian. I have reason to think all three took Natalee back to his flat, and there was no lighthouse, beach, or other public location due to the cognitive reasoning shown by his behaviourisms which his mother puts into a very graphic constructive picture of her 'boy' and his traits. He does not rough it.

A profusely sweating husband who is used to hearing deviant behaviour charges and has knowledge of criminology and behaviours as one would expect of a judge in training is showing on camera extreme unease. The veins stand out on his forehead, he evades the cameras lens, and takes the opportunity to escape to the phone. On coming back the sweat running down his face is gone, he is composed again. He is not in his wifes emotional circle as he was responsible for his son, when his son went out to take this girl. a persons daughter, in the middle of the night. His whole attitude from the start has been wrong in what he should have done listening the remarks from Natalees husband and his statements. Now that the island sees this the emotional card come in. It is too little to late.

Joran and his friends I believe would take the easiest route as do not like to get themselves dirty on public beaches, there is no evidence they do this. I suggest that the rage pattern is abandonment rage, and remember his mother was away in Holland. If Joran took someone home to his flat and no one was there, the dogs, and cars would not be noticed. The excuse of the computer and call I put forward as to be is a red herrring, for he was there already I would say as the easiest thing that could be done at this time of the night. This is a lad that eats at fast food outlets, not gourmet restaurants and frequents casino's with someone elses money. Does he work???

Therefore in my research of predator disposal patterns I have found whether a living person is held hostage, or killed, it depends on the mind of the highest in the pack, and at present I do not have a fixed point of the main decision maker. That is why I feel more arrests have to come. This is way to specialised for a 17 year old in that their is no sign of the girl or her belongings since he took her with him, not the other way round. A more advanced mind and some planning results in hiding evidence and a person, as some dispose in the open, or run away, none of these did this. They blamed a lower socio ecomic workers as escaping so they thought justice. They lied, and lied and lied and implicated others which is an offence. Perverting the course of justice, lying in a police statement, using up public funded resources, etc, etc.

The father knows something that is clear from his biological actions shown on camera with his wife, what that is he has divulge to his wife, the police, and his superiors. He is at risk of a stroke if this pressure keeps up, and would worry more of his health than his deviant son and his friends. None of their family of those incarcerated is saying it is a nightmare, or coming forward and one must ask are they silenced in this for some reason??? I also think the Deepak email, at least one is in part genuine, but as the whole message heading is missing it could have been deleted by someone as the names are.

We must not let this be seen emotional blackmail as families as personality disorder specialists know are apt to be in denial because of its financial,social and communitiy implications. Every consulting room sees such denials. Natalee I would be looking for at that house and around the estate that is off limits to the public. Reasonable assumption in all missing persons cases as starting point. Remember Fred West. No one was missing till a rumour started. Remember Jamie Bulger. Remember Amber Swartz, Nicky Campbell, the latter are still causing a cloud over one person even though he is in an elevated position. 'Stalemate'. is very apt.

[katya]

2. JVDS testified that he and NH went for a swim and after that whey walked bak to the hotel, where he walked home and NH to Holiday Inn, which is just a few 100 meters away. Easiest if you walk on the beach, there is a walkway connecting all hotels from the beach area. He insists he left her there.

THIS PART IS E*X*T*R*E*M*E*L*Y* HARD TO BELIEVE!!!  Sorry to say folks - I cannot imagine what circumstances would make for a young man to just leave a girl (well known or not) off NEAR her hotel.
DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

Although I might get flamed for this.  Natalee was wearing a skirt and halter-top...not swimming attire if you ask me.  I also don't think she is the type of lady that would just take it all off and run into the ocean.

[DivaToo]

OK, I just watched the interview on MSNBC and she does come off in a more arrogant way, tho defending her son, she said he was questioned the first day, and should now be released b/c he has not broken under interrogation. So that kinda contradicts her statement to Greta that he should have been held the first day. She was not emotional like last night and says she cant understand why BHT feels like these 3 hold the key to her daughter vanishing. She also says more ppl saw Natalee that nite? Did I hear that right? Anywhoo, I understand her defending her son, but she's got a completely different attitude than she did w/ Greta

JMO

Matt the impeccable journalist should have asked her about all the story changes

Yep and Matt didn't question her nearly as much as Greta.  I think she is covering something up.  It's almost like she was about to say, "my son feels guilty for what he has done"

And her body language was weird to , rocking side to side,

Any experts on body language here that has seen the video?

i ve been i sales for 20 years..i think i know body language.....

And what do you think?

Im no body language interpreter or profiler, but if I d take a guess I d say those might have been uncomforatble or hard chairs? I dunno, J.A.F.O...

I think she was standing throught the interview and on a boat. Only logical conclusion for the swaying. But I have to agree, she may have had to go pee,  

Well that must have been one small ass boat b/c I have been on numerous boats and I don't sway like that, except on my dad bass boat HEE...

[mbhs05]

ATTN: PROFESSOR.

WE GET IT.
THE FAMILY IS NARCISSISTIC.
POINT MADE.
PLEASE MOVE ON.
ONE POST WITHOUT THE WORD NARCISSISM IN IT.
JUST ONE.
PLEASE.

that was narcisisisiisstic of you bigcountry

Hahahahahhaha.

[CancunMole]

In my opinion.. I would think that a mother could very easily tell when their child is lying..at least I can tell with my kids.. my son got accused of something in school...got kicked out for 3 freakin days to boot.. I questioned the hell out of him...I rarely ever see my son cry.. but he did..I could tell he was telling the truth. had a big fight with the school and ended up having to call the PD in my area...PD stuck up for me and my son.. the school dropped the crap cause they had NO proof.. and it was ALL over a damn computer speaker.. he was the last to be seen near it.. and was being accused of stealing it cause it disappeared the same damn day... Other kids had stories of other kids touching it.. taking it. etc.....
IF I thought my kid was guilty.. he would have been paying to replace this thihng himself out of his own money.. Im not sticking up for JVS mother...but I would think if she does get to visit.. and perhaps hear him speak.. as a mother she could tell if hes lying or not.. hes 17... unless hes fooled her all of his life!

Yes siree. I know when mine are telling the truth and when they're trying to get away with something. You can't fool Mother..........

[Rob]

i have an idea

lets eliminate jvds, the kalpoes and the kids from mbhs, to me it just doen st make sense that either of these groups have anything else to do with the crime..

now who could be left in that area at that time..
1 the sbf sec guards
2 the workers renovating the allegro
3 actual sec guards who work for the HI
4  ?
see if you guys can come up with any others...
a criminal like this one is usually an opportuntist..