RBN #19 - 6/23/05

[Perforator]

tkubi7



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Buffalo, NY
 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject:    

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If Aruban LE knew something, wouldn't they share it w/FBI to try to solve the case? If so, why then is FBI pulling out?

because they want the credit since it is their country and the FBI is acknowledging that....just thinking

maybe the fbi is leaving in order to explore my theory more indeptly.. after all the perptrators have left the island....

Rob, you think the 2 fbi leaving are the only fbi? They probably have more agents in Alabama than the entire Aruban police force, lol.

[absolut]

CancunMole I wasn't quoting you the last post in that was from someone else.

[ScubaSteve]

You know, what amazes me on this blog site are the questions no one (other than the FBI, most probably) have asked. And it has nothing at all to do with the alibis of the roadies on the Soul Festival Tour.

#1 Who brought Natalee her last drink, prior to leaving C and C?

#2 Who touched it, before that?

#3 How soon was it, before she left?

#4 How much of it did she drink?

Remember, Natalee wasn't exactly doing a lap dance for Joran. And, by the time she got into the Kalpoes' car, she was yelling "Aruba. Aruba."

Those were her last recorded words, upon this planet.

No doubt, the FBI has compiled a list of everyone who touched, or who could have touched, that drink. Have you noticed how silent the Mountain Brook people are? And have you wondered where all these leads are coming from?

Think about it.

Professor, I agree with you.  What also is alraming is the rumored scruffle between Joran and MBH boys.  What would they be fighting over?  A MBH boy gets jelous Joran is talking to Natalee and brings his friends over for a confrontation would be the most likely scenerio.....

.....the mbh boy resorts to druging natalee hoping to get lucky with her on the final night since he has been unsuccesful the nights prior... hmmm

Im sure some of the boys from MBH who went on the trip have shadier backgrounds than Joran...

We need to remember that people from Alabama commit crimes too..

[Scott]

Did anyone else find it odd that Joran's mother said that one of the two serious girlfriends he's had was an American girl who broke it off with him because she thought Joran was 'too sweet' and needed a real man?

Perhaps Joran was scarred by this rejection, leaving him embittered and hostile toward any other American girls who weren't interested in his pursuits.

[Rob]

tkubi7



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Buffalo, NY
 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
If Aruban LE knew something, wouldn't they share it w/FBI to try to solve the case? If so, why then is FBI pulling out?

because they want the credit since it is their country and the FBI is acknowledging that....just thinking

maybe the fbi is leaving in order to explore my theory more indeptly.. after all the perptrators have left the island....

please quit posting that this is all "your" theory....others were involved

oh yeah i forgot you were there that time....

[nancy_drew]

What do you expect him to say to his mother?

Mom:  Joran, did you have anything, anything at all, to do with this girl disapperance?
Joran:  Well, mom....
Mom:  Joran, please...
Joran:  Yeah, mom,  I had everything to do with it...
I mean seriously.  How is this news?  If I killed someone I would tell my mother I was innocent as well.
Jeez....

A mother knows where her kid is lying. They've got eyes in the back of their head and instincts better than any known radar. If she'd questioned, she could have cracked him and may very well have done just that. Which would mean now she would have to hide the fact he's done something awful.

so maybe it was more along the lines of:

Mom: Did you do something to her?
Joran: No! I swear, Mom!
Mom: Joran! Don't you even THINK about lying to me! Did you do something to that girl?
Joran: It was an accident. I swear!

Remember, too, this woman is a SCHOOL TEACHER. She's heard it all, seen it. Excuses up the ying yang. She knows when a student or her own kid is lying like a rock.

I think she knows he was involved and she's having a hard time reconciling that with the image she wants her son to be.

Nice post.. a point I was trying to make also

I agree mothers tend to know when their kid is lying.  However, I'm guessing she really doesn't know if Joran is guilty or not.  It's only natural to support you child's words...to a certain point.  I'm guessing she's not at that point yet!  Inside she could be questioning this whole deal...but, due to emotions and being torn between trusting your kid and trying to be fair she's tortured now.

Any good mother IMO would react this way at this stage.

[jac723]

I have Top 95 on--has anyone been listening--I am sensing tons of bitterness on the callers--but I can't understand any of it

I heard Alabama, witch craft(?),  Jessica(?), Holloway-Aruba, Innocent until proven guilty-US....that is it??

Oh--they just said website forcum--- SCARED MONKEYS--what was that about---YEA!!!!!!!

[DivaToo]

This is in the Theory and Speculation thread, check it out.


By Dutchlady.


I believe that the situation was that the father was out, and did not see the dogs bark and the gate open and the car come to take Joran back to the nightclub as his mother states she is the disciplinarian. I have reason to think all three took Natalee back to his flat, and there was no lighthouse, beach, or other public location due to the cognitive reasoning shown by his behaviourisms which his mother puts into a very graphic constructive picture of her 'boy' and his traits. He does not rough it.

A profusely sweating husband who is used to hearing deviant behaviour charges and has knowledge of criminology and behaviours as one would expect of a judge in training is showing on camera extreme unease. The veins stand out on his forehead, he evades the cameras lens, and takes the opportunity to escape to the phone. On coming back the sweat running down his face is gone, he is composed again. He is not in his wifes emotional circle as he was responsible for his son, when his son went out to take this girl. a persons daughter, in the middle of the night. His whole attitude from the start has been wrong in what he should have done listening the remarks from Natalees husband and his statements. Now that the island sees this the emotional card come in. It is too little to late.

Joran and his friends I believe would take the easiest route as do not like to get themselves dirty on public beaches, there is no evidence they do this. I suggest that the rage pattern is abandonment rage, and remember his mother was away in Holland. If Joran took someone home to his flat and no one was there, the dogs, and cars would not be noticed. The excuse of the computer and call I put forward as to be is a red herrring, for he was there already I would say as the easiest thing that could be done at this time of the night. This is a lad that eats at fast food outlets, not gourmet restaurants and frequents casino's with someone elses money. Does he work???

Therefore in my research of predator disposal patterns I have found whether a living person is held hostage, or killed, it depends on the mind of the highest in the pack, and at present I do not have a fixed point of the main decision maker. That is why I feel more arrests have to come. This is way to specialised for a 17 year old in that their is no sign of the girl or her belongings since he took her with him, not the other way round. A more advanced mind and some planning results in hiding evidence and a person, as some dispose in the open, or run away, none of these did this. They blamed a lower socio ecomic workers as escaping so they thought justice. They lied, and lied and lied and implicated others which is an offence. Perverting the course of justice, lying in a police statement, using up public funded resources, etc, etc.

The father knows something that is clear from his biological actions shown on camera with his wife, what that is he has divulge to his wife, the police, and his superiors. He is at risk of a stroke if this pressure keeps up, and would worry more of his health than his deviant son and his friends. None of their family of those incarcerated is saying it is a nightmare, or coming forward and one must ask are they silenced in this for some reason??? I also think the Deepak email, at least one is in part genuine, but as the whole message heading is missing it could have been deleted by someone as the names are.

We must not let this be seen emotional blackmail as families as personality disorder specialists know are apt to be in denial because of its financial,social and communitiy implications. Every consulting room sees such denials. Natalee I would be looking for at that house and around the estate that is off limits to the public. Reasonable assumption in all missing persons cases as starting point. Remember Fred West. No one was missing till a rumour started. Remember Jamie Bulger. Remember Amber Swartz, Nicky Campbell, the latter are still causing a cloud over one person even though he is in an elevated position. 'Stalemate'. is very apt.

One of the most intelligent posts I've ever seen  

[KackyLacky]

let s sum it up..

23 days,
no evidence.
no forensics.
no confession.
and no idea what the hell happened....

it s hard to believe

You pretty much summed it up. That's all they have so far.

I think that should say...that's all WE have so far.

Rob, BUT, and I know this is a BIG BUT (not BUTT ), what if they have evidence and have been awaiting results from Holland, and what if they have a good idea of what happened. I keep thinking about all the peripheral witnesses there has to be as to Natalee, joran, daddy and the brothers kalpoe. There almost is always someone who saw something and comes in to tell LE. Some one who was on a street, or at a redlight. Remember that is how they got Susan Smith, it came to light an undercover cop was at the intersection where she claimed she was carjacked while at a redlight, only for LE to learn there was no redlight. I think they have more than we know. I really do.

[da wench]

2. JVDS testified that he and NH went for a swim and after that whey walked bak to the hotel, where he walked home and NH to Holiday Inn, which is just a few 100 meters away. Easiest if you walk on the beach, there is a walkway connecting all hotels from the beach area. He insists he left her there.

THIS PART IS E*X*T*R*E*M*E*L*Y* HARD TO BELIEVE!!!  Sorry to say folks - I cannot imagine what circumstances would make for a young man to just leave a girl (well known or not) off NEAR her hotel.
DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

Although I might get flamed for this.  Natalee was wearing a skirt and halter-top...not swimming attire if you ask me.  I also don't think she is the type of lady that would just take it all off and run into the ocean.

I thought it was reported that most of the kids wore the suits under their clothes a lot while they were there...just in case.

[coco]

finally got caught up ...

I think we should remember in all these televised interviews that americans are used to seeing tons of these sorts of reports on tv. This leads to an unconscious "script" as to how you are supposed to act on tv. The folks in Aruba are not watching Fox, etc everynight and are not as "schooled" in tv behavior. This leads to very different demeanors.

I remember, and am not sure of the source, hearing a report about how people in a televised crisis are more and more behaving in specific ways because that has become the "standard response" shown on tv and so they respond as expected from their years of watching similar events as media consumers.

not saying this very well - and will try to find a source for the above - but it's another one of those cultural difference things.

Also the VDS father reminds me a lot of the owner of a german company I worked for - he was a wonderful man but had never really mastered english and initially came off very odd until I learned he was mortified that his english was not great and that he couldn't follow discussions in english easily. All of which made me feel dreadful for thinking him odd since I spoke no german at all and my response was really the arrogant one for assuming he could follow all our english discussions.

[joebob]

2. JVDS testified that he and NH went for a swim and after that whey walked bak to the hotel, where he walked home and NH to Holiday Inn, which is just a few 100 meters away. Easiest if you walk on the beach, there is a walkway connecting all hotels from the beach area. He insists he left her there.

THIS PART IS E*X*T*R*E*M*E*L*Y* HARD TO BELIEVE!!!  Sorry to say folks - I cannot imagine what circumstances would make for a young man to just leave a girl (well known or not) off NEAR her hotel.
DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

Although I might get flamed for this.  Natalee was wearing a skirt and halter-top...not swimming attire if you ask me.  I also don't think she is the type of lady that would just take it all off and run into the ocean.

Rumor has it the sudents wore swimsuits underneath.

Besides that, why not skinnydip after a few drinks on a beach in the dark of night?
(they were not directly in front off any hotel)

Who hasn't done that?

[mbhs05]

You know, what amazes me on this blog site are the questions no one (other than the FBI, most probably) have asked. And it has nothing at all to do with the alibis of the roadies on the Soul Festival Tour.

#1 Who brought Natalee her last drink, prior to leaving C and C?

#2 Who touched it, before that?

#3 How soon was it, before she left?

#4 How much of it did she drink?

Remember, Natalee wasn't exactly doing a lap dance for Joran. And, by the time she got into the Kalpoes' car, she was yelling "Aruba. Aruba."

Those were her last recorded words, upon this planet.

No doubt, the FBI has compiled a list of everyone who touched, or who could have touched, that drink. Have you noticed how silent the Mountain Brook people are? And have you wondered where all these leads are coming from?

Think about it.

Professor, I agree with you.  What also is alraming is the rumored scruffle between Joran and MBH boys.  What would they be fighting over?  A MBH boy gets jelous Joran is talking to Natalee and brings his friends over for a confrontation would be the most likely scenerio.....

.....the mbh boy resorts to druging natalee hoping to get lucky with her on the final night since he has been unsuccesfull the nights prior... hmmm

Im sure some of the boys fro MBH who went on the trip have shadier backgrounds than Joran...

We need to remember that people from Alabama commit crimes too..

That they do, but the kids in my grade are god kids. THere's only been one actualy fight and that was last year...over something really stupid, but it was that pack mentality. Anyway...one in 3 years isn't so bad.
I know that they did not do anything to Natalee. 100%.

[tuberide]

2. JVDS testified that he and NH went for a swim and after that whey walked bak to the hotel, where he walked home and NH to Holiday Inn, which is just a few 100 meters away. Easiest if you walk on the beach, there is a walkway connecting all hotels from the beach area. He insists he left her there.

THIS PART IS E*X*T*R*E*M*E*L*Y* HARD TO BELIEVE!!!  Sorry to say folks - I cannot imagine what circumstances would make for a young man to just leave a girl (well known or not) off NEAR her hotel.
DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

Although I might get flamed for this.  Natalee was wearing a skirt and halter-top...not swimming attire if you ask me.  I also don't think she is the type of lady that would just take it all off and run into the ocean.

um, when you're hooking up with someone at night at the beach, "swimming attire" is not really all that important

[Lausa]

 Although I might get flamed for this.  Natalee was wearing a skirt and halter-top...not swimming attire if you ask me.  I also don't think she is the type of lady that would just take it all off and run into the ocean.

 Not at all uncommon for girls to wear suits under their skirts/tops/whatever.  Just something I've observed on the beaches...

[KackyLacky]

I have Top 95 on--has anyone been listening--I am sensing tons of bitterness on the callers--but I can't understand any of it

I heard Alabama, witch craft(?),  Jessica(?), Holloway-Aruba, Innocent until proven guilty-US....that is it??

Oh--they just said website forcum--- SCARED MONKEYS--what was that about---YEA!!!!!!!

I find it interesting that we have been told by that radio station about how so many Arubans are mad, but we don't see it on TV? Wouldn't TV be a better place to show how upset you are? I see Aruban questioning things yes, but also praying for Natalee on TV.

[mbhs05]

2. JVDS testified that he and NH went for a swim and after that whey walked bak to the hotel, where he walked home and NH to Holiday Inn, which is just a few 100 meters away. Easiest if you walk on the beach, there is a walkway connecting all hotels from the beach area. He insists he left her there.

THIS PART IS E*X*T*R*E*M*E*L*Y* HARD TO BELIEVE!!!  Sorry to say folks - I cannot imagine what circumstances would make for a young man to just leave a girl (well known or not) off NEAR her hotel.
DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

Although I might get flamed for this.  Natalee was wearing a skirt and halter-top...not swimming attire if you ask me.  I also don't think she is the type of lady that would just take it all off and run into the ocean.

Rumor has it the sudents wore swimsuits underneath.

Besides that, why not skinnydip after a few drinks on a beach in the dark of night?
(they were not directly in front off any hotel)

Who hasn't done that?

I haven't!
Seems skeavy.

[LilOrphan]

Father arrested.

[tuberide]

PAPA SLOOT ARRESTED!!!!!!

[Twelve Monkeys]

This is in the Theory and Speculation thread, check it out.


By Dutchlady.


I believe that the situation was that the father was out, and did not see the dogs bark and the gate open and the car come to take Joran back to the nightclub as his mother states she is the disciplinarian. I have reason to think all three took Natalee back to his flat, and there was no lighthouse, beach, or other public location due to the cognitive reasoning shown by his behaviourisms which his mother puts into a very graphic constructive picture of her 'boy' and his traits. He does not rough it.

A profusely sweating husband who is used to hearing deviant behaviour charges and has knowledge of criminology and behaviours as one would expect of a judge in training is showing on camera extreme unease. The veins stand out on his forehead, he evades the cameras lens, and takes the opportunity to escape to the phone. On coming back the sweat running down his face is gone, he is composed again. He is not in his wifes emotional circle as he was responsible for his son, when his son went out to take this girl. a persons daughter, in the middle of the night. His whole attitude from the start has been wrong in what he should have done listening the remarks from Natalees husband and his statements. Now that the island sees this the emotional card come in. It is too little to late.

Joran and his friends I believe would take the easiest route as do not like to get themselves dirty on public beaches, there is no evidence they do this. I suggest that the rage pattern is abandonment rage, and remember his mother was away in Holland. If Joran took someone home to his flat and no one was there, the dogs, and cars would not be noticed. The excuse of the computer and call I put forward as to be is a red herrring, for he was there already I would say as the easiest thing that could be done at this time of the night. This is a lad that eats at fast food outlets, not gourmet restaurants and frequents casino's with someone elses money. Does he work???

Therefore in my research of predator disposal patterns I have found whether a living person is held hostage, or killed, it depends on the mind of the highest in the pack, and at present I do not have a fixed point of the main decision maker. That is why I feel more arrests have to come. This is way to specialised for a 17 year old in that their is no sign of the girl or her belongings since he took her with him, not the other way round. A more advanced mind and some planning results in hiding evidence and a person, as some dispose in the open, or run away, none of these did this. They blamed a lower socio ecomic workers as escaping so they thought justice. They lied, and lied and lied and implicated others which is an offence. Perverting the course of justice, lying in a police statement, using up public funded resources, etc, etc.

The father knows something that is clear from his biological actions shown on camera with his wife, what that is he has divulge to his wife, the police, and his superiors. He is at risk of a stroke if this pressure keeps up, and would worry more of his health than his deviant son and his friends. None of their family of those incarcerated is saying it is a nightmare, or coming forward and one must ask are they silenced in this for some reason??? I also think the Deepak email, at least one is in part genuine, but as the whole message heading is missing it could have been deleted by someone as the names are.

We must not let this be seen emotional blackmail as families as personality disorder specialists know are apt to be in denial because of its financial,social and communitiy implications. Every consulting room sees such denials. Natalee I would be looking for at that house and around the estate that is off limits to the public. Reasonable assumption in all missing persons cases as starting point. Remember Fred West. No one was missing till a rumour started. Remember Jamie Bulger. Remember Amber Swartz, Nicky Campbell, the latter are still causing a cloud over one person even though he is in an elevated position. 'Stalemate'. is very apt.

One of the most intelligent posts I've ever seen  

YEA BUT IT WASN'T ME, I JUST REPOSTED IT.