March 28, 2024, 07:24:11 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: NEW CHILD BOARD CREATED IN THE POLITICAL SECTION FOR THE 2016 ELECTION
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Dutchlady Posted This  (Read 6332 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Twelve Monkeys
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 58



« on: June 23, 2005, 02:30:00 PM »

This is in the Theory and Speculation thread, check it out.


By Dutchlady.


I believe that the situation was that the father was out, and did not see the dogs bark and the gate open and the car come to take Joran back to the nightclub as his mother states she is the disciplinarian. I have reason to think all three took Natalee back to his flat, and there was no lighthouse, beach, or other public location due to the cognitive reasoning shown by his behaviourisms which his mother puts into a very graphic constructive picture of her 'boy' and his traits. He does not rough it.

A profusely sweating husband who is used to hearing deviant behaviour charges and has knowledge of criminology and behaviours as one would expect of a judge in training is showing on camera extreme unease. The veins stand out on his forehead, he evades the cameras lens, and takes the opportunity to escape to the phone. On coming back the sweat running down his face is gone, he is composed again. He is not in his wifes emotional circle as he was responsible for his son, when his son went out to take this girl. a persons daughter, in the middle of the night. His whole attitude from the start has been wrong in what he should have done listening the remarks from Natalees husband and his statements. Now that the island sees this the emotional card come in. It is too little to late.

Joran and his friends I believe would take the easiest route as do not like to get themselves dirty on public beaches, there is no evidence they do this. I suggest that the rage pattern is abandonment rage, and remember his mother was away in Holland. If Joran took someone home to his flat and no one was there, the dogs, and cars would not be noticed. The excuse of the computer and call I put forward as to be is a red herrring, for he was there already I would say as the easiest thing that could be done at this time of the night. This is a lad that eats at fast food outlets, not gourmet restaurants and frequents casino's with someone elses money. Does he work???

Therefore in my research of predator disposal patterns I have found whether a living person is held hostage, or killed, it depends on the mind of the highest in the pack, and at present I do not have a fixed point of the main decision maker. That is why I feel more arrests have to come. This is way to specialised for a 17 year old in that their is no sign of the girl or her belongings since he took her with him, not the other way round. A more advanced mind and some planning results in hiding evidence and a person, as some dispose in the open, or run away, none of these did this. They blamed a lower socio ecomic workers as escaping so they thought justice. They lied, and lied and lied and implicated others which is an offence. Perverting the course of justice, lying in a police statement, using up public funded resources, etc, etc.

The father knows something that is clear from his biological actions shown on camera with his wife, what that is he has divulge to his wife, the police, and his superiors. He is at risk of a stroke if this pressure keeps up, and would worry more of his health than his deviant son and his friends. None of their family of those incarcerated is saying it is a nightmare, or coming forward and one must ask are they silenced in this for some reason??? I also think the Deepak email, at least one is in part genuine, but as the whole message heading is missing it could have been deleted by someone as the names are.

We must not let this be seen emotional blackmail as families as personality disorder specialists know are apt to be in denial because of its financial,social and communitiy implications. Every consulting room sees such denials. Natalee I would be looking for at that house and around the estate that is off limits to the public. Reasonable assumption in all missing persons cases as starting point. Remember Fred West. No one was missing till a rumour started. Remember Jamie Bulger. Remember Amber Swartz, Nicky Campbell, the latter are still causing a cloud over one person even though he is in an elevated position. 'Stalemate'. is very apt.
Logged

12 Monkeys
GuyWdog
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 110


« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2005, 07:41:58 PM »

One thing about Mr. VS (aka "the Judge" Yes he does sweat, but in his home as in most Arubaian homes there is NO -Air Conditioning, yep how can they stand it ?


guyWdog
Logged
Curiosity
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 156


« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2005, 01:21:44 AM »

GuyWdog....got to agree with you. I live in Florida, and when the a/c is off, it can get pretty darn sweaty from the humidity and heat. I'm sure Aruba is humid from being surrounded by all that water.
Logged
Dutchlady
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 0


« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2005, 10:20:26 AM »

No it is not just the heat, if we look at behaviour profile when interviewing persons that have some covert cognition they have the telltale pupil responses that are neurochemical charges. That is why this in my opinion from observing persons interviewed on camera is the same. Heat does not change the facial and pupil actions. Sensory actions are worth looking at yourself in turning down the sound on a scene. In all the appeals in the media by persons involved as family of a missing person my processing of the non verbal cues has been right even when those are not suspects. I do not listen to words, and watch the slow frames of a person who is interacting with another person as behaviours that mirror the scene. The more you watch people and have the behavioural science tools the more you see. Experts in this field are employed to witness these subconscious indicators that are exposed.
Logged
Pete
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18


« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2005, 11:38:42 AM »

Quote from: "Dutchlady"
I do not listen to words, and watch the slow frames of a person who is interacting with another person as behaviours that mirror the scene. The more you watch people and have the behavioural science tools the more you see. Experts in this field are employed to witness these subconscious indicators that are exposed.


I agree with you, Dutchlady. If you turn the sound off entirely and watch their body language, a wealth of information can be gathered. It is my understanding that the saying, "The eyes are windows to the soul" has merit.  Looking to the left or right with your eyes when trying to recall information when answering a question, looking down with your eyes to not meet someone's gaze, dilated pupils, etc, etc speak volumes to the trained professional, such as yourself. Also, watching how people touch their faces, ears, rub their nose, hair, etc is indicative of certain behaviors, as well. I find this very fascinating. We all betray ourselves without realizing we are.
Logged
fnkmsta
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2005, 09:55:25 PM »

Dutchlady where are you now? We need more insight.
Logged
Anna
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 18149



« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2005, 10:06:42 PM »

There is a difference in sweating from the heat, a generalized all over sweat increased by motion and exertion and sweating at rest.  The sweating started while PVDS was at rest, sitting, no exertion whatsoever and is the sweat patter of the forhead that every ten year old recognizes even from cartoons!  It is hotter in Alabama than in Aruba right now and I do not see globs of sweat pouring off foreheads of ppl at rest.

I have said this over and over only to be told how hot it is in Aruba.  Try B'ham or Montgomery from now until last of August and the humidy can't get much higher.  Still the only ones I see sweat like that are those in some sort of physical or emotional extreme distress.

Do you see anything more?  Eyes looking to the left is creating what is said?  I wonder if that is correct.  Does anyone know?  Wish now I had paid attention to that more in criminal law class years ago.
Logged

PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
SoFL
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2005, 10:36:56 PM »

We need to get the Holloway family to fedex overnight some audio/video with Natalee and air it on Fox as many of the sensitives are requesting this. They need to see her body movements and hear her voice.  If that doesn't uncover anything we need to fly Dutch lady to Aruba so she can continue her psychic interrogation.  I think there needs to be a team there with a laptop scanning these posts and investigating each and every one of them.  When investigating or researching, it is more productive to rotate to fresh eyes and thinking because after a while you are immune to details and may miss something.  Lundsford - cops searched that house & trailer.  Three kids found in trunk - cops walked around and looked under that car.  

Bottom line is JVDS and the Kalpoes are only probably going to be held for another eight days after this turn of events today.  Once they are released, no confession, no body, now an opportunity for all the co-conspirators or whoever to get further legal advice, press starts to dwindle away, etc.,...next thing you know we have an Unsolved Missing Person who just 'poof' disappeared without a trace.  The problem is, unlike Amy Bradley, etc., Natalee's perp (Joren) had motive (sexual gone wrong), means (6'4" strong 17 yo male, 3 buddies to assist him, and a judge wannabe PVDS legally counseling and giving adult criminal advice) AND opportunity (Mom's in Holland, nobody has come forth stating they saw Joran anywhere once he left Nat(?), past 1 AM, knows the island and surrounding currents, 3 buddies and Dad agree to no confession, 2 weeks to dispose of evidence, etc.).
Logged
Kismette
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6



« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2005, 11:51:26 PM »

My parents have a house in Orange Beach, AL. While it is equiped with central a/c and heat, we've rarely ever used it through the years (except the overly hot nights in late July/early August) because the constant sea breeze keeps it (the temperature) comfortable...

     I think the heat very well could have contributed to Papa VDS' appearance and behavior, but all-in-all, he was the proverbial 'posterchild' for what a bad case of NERVES combined with STRESS looks like.

     Just my thoughts...

     K
Logged
Gingerkitty
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 14



« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2005, 12:52:24 AM »

Body language often reveals incriminating details, but, just as lie-detectors are fallible due to varying responses in nervous systems, it's a possibility that Paul van der Sloot is in chaos due to the stressful circumstances and being on camera trying to say the right things. Even if he had nothing much to hide, he'd still want to protect his son, and himself. He knows how serious the situation is. He's lost his position as a judge. He has what to be nervous from, beyond the heat and humidity.

While I don't think his behavior has been exemplory, to say the least, particularly with telling his son not to talk to Beth Holloway, which is despicable, it's not a certainty that he is involved. He may just be selfishly guarding his own family, the hell with the missing girl and her family's grief.

The lack of substantial evidence to hold him beyond the initial 48 hours seems to suggest there is nothing more than his incriminating sweat and shakes which landed him in the clink. Now while that is a red flag, it's not enough to condemn a man, or take away his freedom. They still have to produce a reasonable burden of proof that he broke the law. Even if his son confided in him, unless he obstructed justice, he is not obliged to tell authorities, or be held for looking suspicious if that's all they have on him.
Logged
southernbelle73f
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2005, 01:21:49 AM »

I live along the gulf coast of Alabama. It is hotter here than in Birmingham most of the time and like it was metioned earlier we do have a/c and it keeps us cool. I really think that Mr. Paulus VanDerSlooth was sweating entirely too much. As a matter of a fact I even noticed it and then the camera man zoomed in on his face. Most people that would be in the middle of an interview would 1- talk...2-not go answer a phone (as this is rude) unless that is just something that is concered rude in the south.  If I was in the middle of an interview that I knew would be played on National TV in America...I don't think I would have jumped up and answered the phone...I would have let the answering service (machine/voice mail, etc.) get the call. I didn't see him even try to comfort his wife either...which I thought was really odd...usually there would be some kind of physical contact made...especially if my spouse was bawling her/his eyes out over an arrested son. Just plain weird...Mr. PVD sure don't seem like a very compassionate man.
Just my opinion...thanks for your time Smile
Logged

Natalee-We have NOT given up!
mia
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 44


« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2005, 01:36:55 AM »

If sweating were a crime, they would have to hang me!  I can not believe how you all are willing to hang those kids in Aruba, and their families, and sink the island.  Could you please wait until you have proof there has been a murder?  Natalee Holloway could still turn up, alive, having spent a few more days having the most fun she's had in her whole life!

In my dream she was smiling and walking through a field of yellow flowers.
Logged
ironsides
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5


« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2005, 08:20:04 PM »

very insightful - you ought to be helping with the investigation instead of the people they currently have.  I completely agree with about his personality -anal, fastidious, and doting on the boy.  Although he is not really a boy anymore, he has graduated to monster.  I find it difficult how a people can defend and harbor someone like this, it is akin to the US harboring a Charles Manson or Ted Bundy.  He got away with it once, he will do it again.  When I see the father's face, the chords from the movie Psycho are strumming in the back of my mind.  Also, the wife seems much older than he is, and bends to his will without question.  Does she know somehting?  How long can she hold back the guilt?  Are they all as warped as the son?
Logged
nursebeeme
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15


« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2005, 08:18:16 AM »

the sweating was a dead giveaway of hiding something, nerves, guilt.  It was emotionally charged in response to be directly confronted by the mother of NH.  The mother described the man's reactions and said she knew right away that he knew everything that happened to her daughter.  that he had all of the answers.  That is because not only was he sweating but most likely was also giving other physical cues that NHs mom could not put into words at the time like his gaze, twitiching, etc .
Logged
CaveCricket
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2005, 11:15:41 AM »

Mother VDS knows more then she lets on......thats my gut, im sure i am not alone in thinking so. she seems all too quick to call him a good kid when HELLO dad had to pick JVDS up at 4am?????  Most parents wont tolerate that sort of behavior. I know mine never would have. Casinos and booze?

Maybe I am totally wrong, who knows but as long as we are all going by gut this is my opinion.

And for PVDS, I wonder how he has been sleeping?
Logged
meltorme
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11


« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2005, 12:00:38 PM »

Parents in denial/covering tracks.
They have skeletons. Reminds me of the
Scott Peterson clan in some ways.

When the parent prtarays the child like a
saint, it sends up even more red flags.

I so wish Dutchlady would come back.
She really had her finger on the pulse.
I really believe that just based on her
obsevation of domestic abuse in the family.
I'd almost be surprised if there wasn't.
JMHO
Logged
phl
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2005, 12:42:40 PM »

Quote from: "ironsides"
I find it difficult how a people can defend and harbor someone like this, it is akin to the US harboring a Charles Manson or Ted Bundy.  He got away with it once, he will do it again.


Got away with what exactly?? I'd think if this kid were the equivilant to Ted Bundy, we'd being seeing and hearing from alot of other girls he preyed on during their vacations!

That was quite a jump....honor student by day, serial killer by night. Interesting theory though.
Logged
phl
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2005, 12:56:54 PM »

Quote from: "nursebeeme"
the sweating was a dead giveaway of hiding something, nerves, guilt.  It was emotionally charged in response to be directly confronted by the mother of NH.  The mother described the man's reactions and said she knew right away that he knew everything that happened to her daughter.  that he had all of the answers.  That is because not only was he sweating but most likely was also giving other physical cues that NHs mom could not put into words at the time like his gaze, twitiching, etc .


Sweating = Hiding something?? Here's my theory....

1)Jug and his clan show up at 3am accusing your son of kidnapping and murder. They then proceed to tell anyone who will listen that your son is a kidnapping murderer and how horrible of parents you are because your son drinks, gamble and parties with girls.

2)Your son is now sitting in jail for who knows how long for something he may or may not have done to this girl.

3)EVERY single word you utter is under scrutiny. Don't misspeak or say something you don't mean, because Jug and Geraldo are just waiting to catch you and hang you for it.

4)The mother of the missing girl shows up at your gate carrying on like a nut...what does he do? Ignore her (it's obvious the family feels for the Holloway's) or invite her in?? Considering the situation, I would have NEVER let her in whether I had something to hide or not. That family has it out for the VDS! But at least Greta was there as a witness to anything that was said.

It's obvious this man doesn't know which end is up anymore. He's got a hysterical wife, a son in jail, a career on the line. We don't know him personally, we don't know if his quiet demeanor is normal or not (although according to colleagues, it is normal). Watching the mom at that fence that day, and then listening to Greta say "yes, she said she wanted to go over there", and then hear the mom say later to another station "no, it was totally unplanned, we just happened upon the place"...I'd think Beth is a kook and a liar herself. But I'm assuming she is not, she's just under enormous stress.

So considering that PVDS is going through the same stress,  WHO WOULDN'T SWEAT! My god, I hope when the time comes, they have more to go on than sweat & a missing girl's mother's intuition!
Logged
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Use of this web site in any manner signifies unconditional acceptance, without exception, of our terms of use.
Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC
 
Page created in 6.14 seconds with 19 queries.