RBN #20 - 6/23/05 Evening

[someone]

Natalee's mom just said she knows the these guys "kidnapped" her daughter.


more on this interview later...........

you have to say that or succumb to the alternative. I think that is wishful thinking.

She also said, "and hopefully not raped and murdered".

I too think that it is wishful thinking.  I do not believe that NH is alive.  That is just my humble opinion.  I would love to be proven wrong.  I don't believe any of this was planned, however.  I think illicit drugs were given to her without her knowledge and she got sick and aspirated.  I think JVS freaked at that point and involved the Kalpoe brothers and his father.  What still bothers me is IF the Kalpoes only helped him dispose of the body, why would they have not broken by now and just said that they were accessories and that Joran was the culprit?  Friendship only goes so far.  I would just think that by now ONE of those boys would have pointed the finger at another and said "he did it and here's how".  All I have heard is differing stories.  Just thinking out loud here and trying to make sense of all this.  In any event, I truly hope Natalee's family finds her so they can take her home and have at least some form of closure.

The two surinamese brothers are Hindu...their religion does not allow them to touch a dead body.  If she indeed died of accidental causes, the two Kalpoe brothers would not have been involved.

[writergal]

Juvenal,

I think that in inquisition is to the advantage of the government, and historically inquisitions have resulted in confessions.

If we are interested in freedom and justice, then I think we need to understand first that government is the most incompetent form of organization known, and secondly that government is the most dangerous form of organization known.

Don't we want innocent people to be safe from the power of government? How is that possible if we are supposed to trust in beaurecrats to reach the conclusion that one is innocent or guilty? (Not likely, thank you.)

You might be right that common law keeps the concepts of "law" and "government" seperate better than does civil law (and they are two different things). That would definitely be an advantage of common law.

I agree with you. I prefer common law. I'm just saying that common law does have its weaknesses, and Michael Jackson being able to pay Mesereau to get him off the hook is one of those.

Or, if you prefer, OJ could pony up the cash for Johnnie C. And he walked.

Also, the "inquisition" is not the same as the "Spanish Inquisition" of the 16th century. All it means is that you have a panel of judges who examine plaintiff/defendant/witnesses. They don't torture people, as a general practice, to get confessions, anymore.

is European law based on the Napoleonic Code which is once charged you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent??

that is tough because of course the state has way more resources than the average defendant, guys like MJ excepted of course.........

    Most of the Continent follows the Napoleonic Code: guilty until proven innocent. According to a friend of mine who lived and worked in France, they think our system is unfair to the defendant. And some Germans still object to the fact that the Nuremburg Trials were held under the U.S. system.

[LilOrphan]

I saw a news photo and it was "boarded up" in the sense that the big outdoor shutters were all closed over the windows.

Interesting. I wonder if she's having to stay somewhere else because people are hounding her especially since she still ahs two young boys.

That seems more logical than leaving the country. Hope she does just that to avoid the media onslaught and whatever else people do without thinking clearly.  I hope she's not worried about anything even more sinister if there are other people involved.

[tuberide]

My stomach is turning over what O'Liely just reported on Fox about Jessica Lunsford.  

I missed it.  Will you fill us in?

They're saying that Jessica was kept alive for 3 days in his (the perp's)house while 3 other people were also in the house witnessing it all.  She was then buried alive in garbage bags.  Something about the police botched the investigation.  Didn't hear much past that.  I was in tears.  Let's just hope the same didn't happen to NH - that she was alive in their house when the police/BHT, etc. came to the VDS house that night.
This is all too much to handle.  White wine spritzers are helping!

white wine spritzers are fine and all but i think it would be good to pray for natalee right about now

[cancon]

hay arubagirl you remember talking the KIA prison  I saw a guy on fox talking  about it He said that they just open up a new wing in the prison he also said it was as nice as any prison in the USA  is that true?

Nice as any prison in the U.S.A? That's still not saying much.

no I think the guy was saying it is a nice prison much nicer than most US prisons, esp the new wing[/quote
so you saw it too

Nice? Wow, I never thought of a prison being nice.

Somehow being locked up virtually alone never sounds nice.

no being locked is never nice but not all prisons are created equal, that is an understatement

I'm sure the Aruban jail is clean, in other Caribbean prisons, say hello to your friends cockroach and rat

[Itawamba]

I had that same news item about Lord of the Ditch's appointment and it goes on to say that it's for a 3-year term that started Jan 2003.

He is a "secretary" to the Attorney-General, which to me just says "government official."  He said himself that he was being allowed to hear a few cases per month until he might be appointed as a judge.

To me, that's a magistrate.  Sort of like a justice of the peace or something--not anything that requires a law degree.  I know the OP found another article that stated in Dutch that the Lord of the Ditch has a law degree, but I haven't found that one myself.

[cancon]

Juvenal,

I think that in inquisition is to the advantage of the government, and historically inquisitions have resulted in confessions.

If we are interested in freedom and justice, then I think we need to understand first that government is the most incompetent form of organization known, and secondly that government is the most dangerous form of organization known.

Don't we want innocent people to be safe from the power of government? How is that possible if we are supposed to trust in beaurecrats to reach the conclusion that one is innocent or guilty? (Not likely, thank you.)

You might be right that common law keeps the concepts of "law" and "government" seperate better than does civil law (and they are two different things). That would definitely be an advantage of common law.

I agree with you. I prefer common law. I'm just saying that common law does have its weaknesses, and Michael Jackson being able to pay Mesereau to get him off the hook is one of those.

Or, if you prefer, OJ could pony up the cash for Johnnie C. And he walked.

Also, the "inquisition" is not the same as the "Spanish Inquisition" of the 16th century. All it means is that you have a panel of judges who examine plaintiff/defendant/witnesses. They don't torture people, as a general practice, to get confessions, anymore.

is European law based on the Napoleonic Code which is once charged you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent??

that is tough because of course the state has way more resources than the average defendant, guys like MJ excepted of course.........

    Most of the Continent follows the Napoleonic Code: guilty until proven innocent. According to a friend of mine who lived and worked in France, they think our system is unfair to the defendant. And some Germans still object to the fact that the Nuremburg Trials were held under the U.S. system.

and yet how does Jacques Chirac always allude criminal charges?

[CaliGirl]

I saw a news photo and it was "boarded up" in the sense that the big outdoor shutters were all closed over the windows.

Interesting. I wonder if she's having to stay somewhere else because people are hounding her especially since she still ahs two young boys.

That seems more logical than leaving the country. Hope she does just that to avoid the media onslaught and whatever else people do without thinking clearly.  I hope she's not worried about anything even more sinister if there are other people involved.

She could perhaps, maybe escourting the two young boys to back home in the Netherlands to stay with relatives for the summer. Most likely safer and sheltered there.

[Ting]

I wonder if she's having to stay somewhere else because people are hounding her especially since she still ahs two young boys.

I sincerely hope that she has arranged for her other children, and elders, if there are any, to go for a private visit with friends or family far from Aruba, and not in the Netherlands or the US.

[coco]

Dave Holliway said FBI behind the scenes are telling them that the Arubans are doing a good job.

[tuberide]

...anyone find it odd that if PAPASloot was intelligent enough to actually orchestrate and possibly participate in this ordeal, that he would be dumb enough to then  hang himself with his interviews with media, etc??

And the answer would be :::bing! bing! bing!::: SCOTT PETERSON!

bing bing wrong
scott peterson did not hang himself by participating in media interviews

[HannieC]

CaliGirl wrote:

Nice? Wow, I never thought of a prison being nice.

Hi ((Cali)),

Especially if you`re innocent . This proves nothing who`s in jail under dutch law, pfff I`m getting tired to explain this. I`m glad you understand it cali how dutch law works.

[absolut]

Natalee's mom just said she knows the these guys "kidnapped" her daughter.


more on this interview later...........

you have to say that or succumb to the alternative. I think that is wishful thinking.

She also said, "and hopefully not raped and murdered".

I too think that it is wishful thinking.  I do not believe that NH is alive.  That is just my humble opinion.  I would love to be proven wrong.  I don't believe any of this was planned, however.  I think illicit drugs were given to her without her knowledge and she got sick and aspirated.  I think JVS freaked at that point and involved the Kalpoe brothers and his father.  What still bothers me is IF the Kalpoes only helped him dispose of the body, why would they have not broken by now and just said that they were accessories and that Joran was the culprit?  Friendship only goes so far.  I would just think that by now ONE of those boys would have pointed the finger at another and said "he did it and here's how".  All I have heard is differing stories.  Just thinking out loud here and trying to make sense of all this.  In any event, I truly hope Natalee's family finds her so they can take her home and have at least some form of closure.

The two surinamese brothers are Hindu...their religion does not allow them to touch a dead body.  If she indeed died of accidental causes, the two Kalpoe brothers would not have been involved.

I had read that but didn't think enough of it to post it. Is that the same for all Hindu's or are there splittered groups and are we sure they are religious?

[CaliGirl]

hay arubagirl you remember talking the KIA prison  I saw a guy on fox talking  about it He said that they just open up a new wing in the prison he also said it was as nice as any prison in the USA  is that true?

Nice as any prison in the U.S.A? That's still not saying much.

no I think the guy was saying it is a nice prison much nicer than most US prisons, esp the new wing[/quote
so you saw it too

Nice? Wow, I never thought of a prison being nice.

Somehow being locked up virtually alone never sounds nice.

no being locked is never nice but not all prisons are created equal, that is an understatement

I'm sure the Aruban jail is clean, in other Caribbean prisons, say hello to your friends cockroach and rat

So true Cancun.
::thinking of camp cookie Martha was at :::  

[ExTexinAZ]

My stomach is turning over what O'Liely just reported on Fox about Jessica Lunsford.  

I missed it.  Will you fill us in?

They're saying that Jessica was kept alive for 3 days in his (the perp's)house while 3 other people were also in the house witnessing it all.  She was then buried alive in garbage bags.  Something about the police botched the investigation.  Didn't hear much past that.  I was in tears.  Let's just hope the same didn't happen to NH - that she was alive in their house when the police/BHT, etc. came to the VDS house that night.
This is all too much to handle.  White wine spritzers are helping!

white wine spritzers are fine and all but i think it would be good to pray for natalee right about now

Believe me, I am.

[KackyLacky]

yes, I learned several days ago from a friend and GVS's name means of sister. This from someone ( me) whose surname means "head of a goat" in my heritage language.

ja that makes sense the dutch word for sister is zuster and zusteren would be plural and somewhere down the line the Z got changed to an S makes sense because our last name is a German name that was Dutchified and when I went to Aruba, the customs guards got a good laugh....

I know what you mean, I went thru something similar when I entered the country of my people's origin!  Head of a goat, my better half has not let me live that down.   My name actually was Polish then became Norwegianized, then Germanized, then Americanized all with in 6 months! I couldn' t have a nice English name that still carrys it's original meaning like hubby..........

[puggywug]

My stomach is turning over what O'Liely just reported on Fox about Jessica Lunsford.  

I missed it.  Will you fill us in?

They're saying that Jessica was kept alive for 3 days in his (the perp's)house while 3 other people were also in the house witnessing it all.  She was then buried alive in garbage bags.  Something about the police botched the investigation.  Didn't hear much past that.  I was in tears.  Let's just hope the same didn't happen to NH - that she was alive in their house when the police/BHT, etc. came to the VDS house that night.
This is all too much to handle.  White wine spritzers are helping!

white wine spritzers are fine and all but i think it would be good to pray for natalee right about now

I took it as a joke.  I think most of us on this site have been praying consistently for Natalee, as well as her family, community, and the Aruban community.

[huntsy]

I can't beleive that Dutch's boys Father would not come forward. As a parent he is a coward. He needs to walk in Natalee's parents shoes. Karma is a bitch.
 I will be interested to see if he helped aide them or if he just had info.

[goon squad]

Wire article on statement of accused killer of Lunsford.  Not pretty.  If statement true, police definitely missed an opportunity to save her.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-23-lunsford_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

[someone]

Natalee's mom just said she knows the these guys "kidnapped" her daughter.


more on this interview later...........

you have to say that or succumb to the alternative. I think that is wishful thinking.

She also said, "and hopefully not raped and murdered".

I too think that it is wishful thinking.  I do not believe that NH is alive.  That is just my humble opinion.  I would love to be proven wrong.  I don't believe any of this was planned, however.  I think illicit drugs were given to her without her knowledge and she got sick and aspirated.  I think JVS freaked at that point and involved the Kalpoe brothers and his father.  What still bothers me is IF the Kalpoes only helped him dispose of the body, why would they have not broken by now and just said that they were accessories and that Joran was the culprit?  Friendship only goes so far.  I would just think that by now ONE of those boys would have pointed the finger at another and said "he did it and here's how".  All I have heard is differing stories.  Just thinking out loud here and trying to make sense of all this.  In any event, I truly hope Natalee's family finds her so they can take her home and have at least some form of closure.

The two surinamese brothers are Hindu...their religion does not allow them to touch a dead body.  If she indeed died of accidental causes, the two Kalpoe brothers would not have been involved.

I had read that but didn't think enough of it to post it. Is that the same for all Hindu's or are there splittered groups and are we sure they are religious?

I don't know about all of Hindu groups or beliefs.  I was only told this specifically about the brothers from investigations on the island.  That is all i know.