RBN #20 - 6/23/05 Evening

[cancon]

Juvenal,

I think that in inquisition is to the advantage of the government, and historically inquisitions have resulted in confessions.

If we are interested in freedom and justice, then I think we need to understand first that government is the most incompetent form of organization known, and secondly that government is the most dangerous form of organization known.

Don't we want innocent people to be safe from the power of government? How is that possible if we are supposed to trust in beaurecrats to reach the conclusion that one is innocent or guilty? (Not likely, thank you.)

You might be right that common law keeps the concepts of "law" and "government" seperate better than does civil law (and they are two different things). That would definitely be an advantage of common law.

I agree with you. I prefer common law. I'm just saying that common law does have its weaknesses, and Michael Jackson being able to pay Mesereau to get him off the hook is one of those.

Or, if you prefer, OJ could pony up the cash for Johnnie C. And he walked.

Also, the "inquisition" is not the same as the "Spanish Inquisition" of the 16th century. All it means is that you have a panel of judges who examine plaintiff/defendant/witnesses. They don't torture people, as a general practice, to get confessions, anymore.

is European law based on the Napoleonic Code which is once charged you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent??

that is tough because of course the state has way more resources than the average defendant, guys like MJ excepted of course.........

Yeah, same basic thing, cancon, except "Napoleonic Code" just applies to French-speaking countries: Louisiana in U.S.A. and, I assume, Quebec.

I could be wrong, but I think Louisiana has code law (as opposed to common law), but with adversarial courtroom procedure.

If anyone's a lawyer and/or has done jail time in Louisiana, they might be able to correct if me if I'm wrong.  

actually Juvenal you are correct about Quebec, they do have civil law but the Criminal Code of Canada and the Charter of Rights would supersede it so Quebec criminal law would be the same as everywhere else in Canada, which includes the presumption of innocence

[Tila_Bean]

FYI->The exclusive with Natalee's mother is coming up on Fox, hopefully

[Itawamba]

The K's said on their web pages that they are Hindu, but it appears they currently worshipped at the feet of the Mah-Joran-i.

[LostinTime]

My stomach is turning over what O'Liely just reported on Fox about Jessica Lunsford.  

I missed it.  Will you fill us in?

They're saying that Jessica was kept alive for 3 days in his (the perp's)house while 3 other people were also in the house witnessing it all.  She was then buried alive in garbage bags.  Something about the police botched the investigation.  Didn't hear much past that.  I was in tears.  Let's just hope the same didn't happen to NH - that she was alive in their house when the police/BHT, etc. came to the VDS house that night.
This is all too much to handle.  White wine spritzers are helping!

I've read True Crime books forever you would be amazed

[DAG]

Good evening all........I can't believe it, I left to go walk and have dinner with friends and came back to thread 20 on page 20 something, when I left we were still on thread 19, page 45.  Lots to talk about, I will catch up as fast as I can, no need for y'all to rehash everything.

[CaliGirl]

CaliGirl wrote:

Nice? Wow, I never thought of a prison being nice.

Hi ((Cali)),

Especially if you`re innocent . This proves nothing who`s in jail under dutch law, pfff I`m getting tired to explain this. I`m glad you understand it cali how dutch law works.

((Hannie)))

I know you are! It's good of you to hang in there with it, I know I get frustrated, and today has been my breaking day with so much going in the news etc.

I put too much emotion into this, thinking too much like a mother perhaps. If I knew something hardcore and definate, I think I would not feel so torn up.

[absolut]

Wire article on statement of accused killer of Lunsford.  Not pretty.  If statement true, police definitely missed an opportunity to save her.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-23-lunsford_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

How can that piece of crap plead not guilty after saying that crap. The "S" was in there and then some "F" words to. Like I said I can't handle that case.

[KackyLacky]

My stomach is turning over what O'Liely just reported on Fox about Jessica Lunsford.  

I missed it.  Will you fill us in?

They're saying that Jessica was kept alive for 3 days in his (the perp's)house while 3 other people were also in the house witnessing it all.  She was then buried alive in garbage bags.  Something about the police botched the investigation.  Didn't hear much past that.  I was in tears.  Let's just hope the same didn't happen to NH - that she was alive in their house when the police/BHT, etc. came to the VDS house that night.
This is all too much to handle.  White wine spritzers are helping!

white wine spritzers are fine and all but i think it would be good to pray for natalee right about now

Believe me, I am.

the asshole fed her hamburger meat to keep her alive, and let her see the search on TV. The last night he raped her and there was blood. then he dug the hole put her in the bag and buried her. Said she did not cry. Asshole wonders how the search dogs missed her, liked he blamed them for her dying, since she could have lived if they had found her in time.    

[nancy_drew]

Natalee's mom just said she knows the these guys "kidnapped" her daughter.


more on this interview later...........

you have to say that or succumb to the alternative. I think that is wishful thinking.

She also said, "and hopefully not raped and murdered".

I too think that it is wishful thinking.  I do not believe that NH is alive.  That is just my humble opinion.  I would love to be proven wrong.  I don't believe any of this was planned, however.  I think illicit drugs were given to her without her knowledge and she got sick and aspirated.  I think JVS freaked at that point and involved the Kalpoe brothers and his father.  What still bothers me is IF the Kalpoes only helped him dispose of the body, why would they have not broken by now and just said that they were accessories and that Joran was the culprit?  Friendship only goes so far.  I would just think that by now ONE of those boys would have pointed the finger at another and said "he did it and here's how".  All I have heard is differing stories.  Just thinking out loud here and trying to make sense of all this.  In any event, I truly hope Natalee's family finds her so they can take her home and have at least some form of closure.

The two surinamese brothers are Hindu...their religion does not allow them to touch a dead body.  If she indeed died of accidental causes, the two Kalpoe brothers would not have been involved.

Interesting about the religious aspect.  Personally, I don't think the brothers had anything to do with Natalee's disappearance.  It makes no sense that the brothers stayed with Joran and Natalee in a romantic situation. It's just not logical.  

They obviously were part of an early cover-up.  It is possible Depak came back to help Joran.  But, that still makes no sense to me.  I really doubt the brothers would be part of a cover-up to protect Joran if a death was part of the equation.

[puggywug]

...anyone find it odd that if PAPASloot was intelligent enough to actually orchestrate and possibly participate in this ordeal, that he would be dumb enough to then  hang himself with his interviews with media, etc??

And the answer would be :::bing! bing! bing!::: SCOTT PETERSON!

bing bing wrong
scott peterson did not hang himself by participating in media interviews

Actually, soon after Lacy's disappearance, he got caught in a lie when being interviewd by Gloria Gomez.  She asked him if Lacy knew about his affair with Amber, and he said yes.  When GG pressed him about when he told Lacy, he stumbled and got tongue-tied, and then told her he was there to discuss Lacy's disappearance.  So, in my opinion, he did hang himself by talking with the media.

[HannieC]

Not all Chrstians act upon there bible......Not all Muslims act upon there Koran... and so on..........

I think it`s has to do were you brought up in what country.

[coco]

The Kalpoes' mother said they were good Hindu boys and showed the tv cameras where they pray. A lot of the shift in attitude today (and possibly the arrest of PVDS) seems tied to the Kalpoes saying they were covering for Joran. They may have been - or they may be covering for themselves - or they may know nothing. as usual - all hearsay

All the parents on all sides are sure they have good kids.

[littletxlady]

...anyone find it odd that if PAPASloot was intelligent enough to actually orchestrate and possibly participate in this ordeal, that he would be dumb enough to then  hang himself with his interviews with media, etc??

And the answer would be :::bing! bing! bing!::: SCOTT PETERSON!

bing bing wrong
scott peterson did not hang himself by participating in media interviews

BEEP WRONG ANSWER
That's exactly what he did!

[Shellbell]

Its on Fox right now.

[cancon]

I had that same news item about Lord of the Ditch's appointment and it goes on to say that it's for a 3-year term that started Jan 2003.

He is a "secretary" to the Attorney-General, which to me just says "government official."  He said himself that he was being allowed to hear a few cases per month until he might be appointed as a judge.

To me, that's a magistrate.  Sort of like a justice of the peace or something--not anything that requires a law degree.  I know the OP found another article that stated in Dutch that the Lord of the Ditch has a law degree, but I haven't found that one myself.

exactly, he is more like a JP or magistrate and I don't think Dutch judges need a law degree,  I know JP's in Canada don't need em and at one time judges at the provincial court or small claims court didn't need to be lawyers either, the toughest judge in provincial criminal court in London Ont was a former RCMP officer.......

[arubagirl]

If the brothers are innocent, then why are they lying. Why why why?

Look, I may be scared when I see the cops, but I'd be scared into telling the truth.

[absolut]

Natalee's mom just said she knows the these guys "kidnapped" her daughter.


more on this interview later...........

you have to say that or succumb to the alternative. I think that is wishful thinking.

She also said, "and hopefully not raped and murdered".

I too think that it is wishful thinking.  I do not believe that NH is alive.  That is just my humble opinion.  I would love to be proven wrong.  I don't believe any of this was planned, however.  I think illicit drugs were given to her without her knowledge and she got sick and aspirated.  I think JVS freaked at that point and involved the Kalpoe brothers and his father.  What still bothers me is IF the Kalpoes only helped him dispose of the body, why would they have not broken by now and just said that they were accessories and that Joran was the culprit?  Friendship only goes so far.  I would just think that by now ONE of those boys would have pointed the finger at another and said "he did it and here's how".  All I have heard is differing stories.  Just thinking out loud here and trying to make sense of all this.  In any event, I truly hope Natalee's family finds her so they can take her home and have at least some form of closure.

The two surinamese brothers are Hindu...their religion does not allow them to touch a dead body.  If she indeed died of accidental causes, the two Kalpoe brothers would not have been involved.

I had read that but didn't think enough of it to post it. Is that the same for all Hindu's or are there splittered groups and are we sure they are religious?

I don't know about all of Hindu groups or beliefs.  I was only told this specifically about the brothers from investigations on the island.  That is all i know.

Does them gambling or drinking say anything about their beliefs or is that ok in the hindu religion (i have no idea) looking for answers they are not currently in my equation.

[someone]

My stomach is turning over what O'Liely just reported on Fox about Jessica Lunsford.  

I missed it.  Will you fill us in?

They're saying that Jessica was kept alive for 3 days in his (the perp's)house while 3 other people were also in the house witnessing it all.  She was then buried alive in garbage bags.  Something about the police botched the investigation.  Didn't hear much past that.  I was in tears.  Let's just hope the same didn't happen to NH - that she was alive in their house when the police/BHT, etc. came to the VDS house that night.
This is all too much to handle.  White wine spritzers are helping!

white wine spritzers are fine and all but i think it would be good to pray for natalee right about now

Believe me, I am.

the asshole fed her hamburger meat to keep her alive, and let her see the search on TV. The last night he raped her and there was blood. then he dug the hole put her in the bag and buried her. Said she did not cry. Asshole wonders how the search dogs missed her, liked he blamed them for her dying, since she could have lived if they had found her in time.    

That truly makes me sick.  I would really appreciate not hearing any more graphic details about that case in SM.  I have been avoiding things like that.  If Natalee is alive, which I can only pray for, I can't stomach the thought of what could be happening.  I'm sure others must agree.

[Juvenal]

Natalee's mom just said she knows the these guys "kidnapped" her daughter.


more on this interview later...........

you have to say that or succumb to the alternative. I think that is wishful thinking.

She also said, "and hopefully not raped and murdered".

I too think that it is wishful thinking.  I do not believe that NH is alive.  That is just my humble opinion.  I would love to be proven wrong.  I don't believe any of this was planned, however.  I think illicit drugs were given to her without her knowledge and she got sick and aspirated.  I think JVS freaked at that point and involved the Kalpoe brothers and his father.  What still bothers me is IF the Kalpoes only helped him dispose of the body, why would they have not broken by now and just said that they were accessories and that Joran was the culprit?  Friendship only goes so far.  I would just think that by now ONE of those boys would have pointed the finger at another and said "he did it and here's how".  All I have heard is differing stories.  Just thinking out loud here and trying to make sense of all this.  In any event, I truly hope Natalee's family finds her so they can take her home and have at least some form of closure.

The two surinamese brothers are Hindu...their religion does not allow them to touch a dead body.  If she indeed died of accidental causes, the two Kalpoe brothers would not have been involved.

I had read that but didn't think enough of it to post it. Is that the same for all Hindu's or are there splittered groups and are we sure they are religious?

What does the Hindu religion say about lying to police? Not saying I know what they did, but I don't think you can go by a person's religion to determine what they did or didn't take part in.

[CaliGirl]

Natalee's mom just said she knows the these guys "kidnapped" her daughter.


more on this interview later...........

you have to say that or succumb to the alternative. I think that is wishful thinking.

She also said, "and hopefully not raped and murdered".

I too think that it is wishful thinking.  I do not believe that NH is alive.  That is just my humble opinion.  I would love to be proven wrong.  I don't believe any of this was planned, however.  I think illicit drugs were given to her without her knowledge and she got sick and aspirated.  I think JVS freaked at that point and involved the Kalpoe brothers and his father.  What still bothers me is IF the Kalpoes only helped him dispose of the body, why would they have not broken by now and just said that they were accessories and that Joran was the culprit?  Friendship only goes so far.  I would just think that by now ONE of those boys would have pointed the finger at another and said "he did it and here's how".  All I have heard is differing stories.  Just thinking out loud here and trying to make sense of all this.  In any event, I truly hope Natalee's family finds her so they can take her home and have at least some form of closure.

The two surinamese brothers are Hindu...their religion does not allow them to touch a dead body.  If she indeed died of accidental causes, the two Kalpoe brothers would not have been involved.

I had read that but didn't think enough of it to post it. Is that the same for all Hindu's or are there splittered groups and are we sure they are religious?

I agree absolut. Just because they say they are Hindu doesn't mean they are practicing.
I am Christian but I definately will be honest and say I haven't been practicing lately i.e. like when I went off on Brenda jk lol