RBN #20 - 6/23/05 Evening

[bob_in_MD]

Snuff films are one of those popular legends that refuse to die.

An even more popular and enduring legend is that there are things so terrible that no human being does them.

Ting -

That's a valid point.  But can you point to even one verifiable example of such a film?

[chloe2]

From Riehl World this evening:

"After discussions with two independent sources on Aruba this evening, it would appear that a strong working theory by some close to the investigation is that Paulus Van der Sloot was directly involved with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, up to and including disposal of her body after the fact.

This could explain Joran Van der Sloot's unusual interaction with Satish and Deepak Kalpoe during interrogation, as first reported here.

That interaction involved Joran Van der Sloot changing his story immediately after being called a liar by one of the Kalpoe brothers for stating that he had picked him up at the beach."

I posted that here about 3 hours ago. Got no reaction.

[Onnimus]

Just some thoughts...this case is REALLY frustrating me. I am 28 years old and I have a 13 month old daughter, my first and only child. I feel so attached to this case because I see so much in Natalee that reminds me of myself 10 years ago. I went on a graduation trip- not to Aruba, to a beach 4 hours away by car, so it wasn't a really NICE trip or anything, but I know from experience......I was with 1 friend, and we were mostly careful and dependable, but we did some stupid things. We let loose to celebrate our graduation...we didn't drink or do drugs (I'm sure we would have had some drinks if we were in a place where we were legal)...but we did meet boys that we didn't know, and we did get in cars with them. Nothing happened- but it COULD have. We were so stupid and naive! I'm not saying Natalee is stupid or naive, just that you CAN be a wonderful person, and very responsible, but 18 year olds are NOT adults even if they look like adults and are mature. My friend and I were LUCKY.

also from that experience I saw how you COULD be TOTALLY inocent and get dragged into a bad situation. I won't elaborate, but we had to call 911 because some local girls who we had never seen before and hadn't  met anyone who knew them just saw us out, and they were on drugs, and they started getting violent with us. We were having a good time and not bothering anyone or going crazy or hooking up, and we suddenly found ourselves in a bind. So I believe in my heart that Natalee just got caught up in something over her head.

My other thing is I am a mother now and I never knew before just how DEEPLY you feel for your children. In my daughter (who's a baby) I see Natalee...I hold my daughter and play with her and think of Beth Twitty holding baby Natalee. I see pictures of Natalee and see my daughter in 16 years. I feel Beth Twitty's pain, and I remember being 18. So I feel all caught up in the middle of this emotionally. Just wanted to get that out.

I also want to coment that Natalee was safer in Aruba than on most college campuses in the U.S...been there, done that, seen too much.

Now what bothers me about this case is how the media has it on every night but not much changes. Greta has done well, she's gotten some great scoops and interviews but we do not know more than we did 3 weeks ago, except that PVDS has been arrested and the dj was arrested. I realize thisis due to a difference in the legal systems and I also think this adds to the many confusions in this case:

If the Holloway-Twittys were not in Aruba with the US Media forcing all this attention on the case, probably nothing would have been done to help Natalee after a couple days of searches. OTOH I am afraid that the media and the Twittys are causing some problems by being too pushy and talking too much to the media. It's a catch-22, I'd be doing exactly as Beth is doing if it were my daughter, I would be able to stop myself. I might not even have the restraint she has. But by doing so I think she is making it more difficult because she is talking to the media and that goes aainst Dutch law- Mrs. Twitty can talk but the officials cannot respond with actual information so I think some people on the island are becoming ticked off.

Sorry to be so long, I am just sleepless right now and feeling Beth Twitty's pain. I feel sorry for Anita vd Sloot too, and the mother of the Kalpoes...these women are suffering.

I hope I am wrong in feeling that Natalee will never be found.....

[heartache]

Snuff films are for real, but I don't think that NH was lured away so she could star in one.  Geraldo got some info and  based on what we know about Baby... would it surprise any of you, that he would record his antics? And that there isn't some place for him to do so?  Home would be risky. But then again...

[friend of monkeys]

The more I watch and listen - and remind myself of how much we do only *think* we know because we are reading here nonstop and listening to all the hyped news broadcasts, the more I think Hannie is very right to worry that the arrests have more to do with US media pressure than with standard legal practice.  I keep remembering that initially there was a big uproar to arrest somebody and they grabbed the two security guards and that was a mistake.

The lawyer on Larry King was saying that if he was PVDS he would have told his kid to say nothing at all - and that if he was one of the Hollaway/Twitty's he would be at the police station all the time demanding they pick up everyone imaginable. I worry that the Holloway/Twitty pressure may be pushing this case in one direction and it might be the wrong one.

The idea that this complicated kidnap/prostitution/white slave thing was cooked up in the time available in the accepted timeline is off the wall - and assumes more fact behind the arrests than needed in the Dutch system.

I'm voting that Joran left her alive on the beach near the HI and that Paul is in trouble for telling him not to talk or told him that since he told a story coz he was afraid and then everything got way more intense (NH missing and not turning up as a runaway, etc) to stick to it since he was afraid his son would get blamed. This would turn out to be the wrong advice but I could see how he might do that.

not willing to blame anyone yet ... still all hearsay and rumour

very perceptive coco,  the twittys are throwing their weight around in a scandalous manner aided and abetted by the US media.  the arubans are intimidated and are trying to please the twittys who are manipulating the cops through the FBI.  The FBI is politcallly savvy too tho we now have reports they are scaling down (TDY fatigue).   i have the feeling that the prosecutor is young and inexperienced.  note too that the judge on the case so far, who was imported from curacao, probably because vandersloot could not sit for is son's case, is leaving so we have a revolving door there.  the prosecutor has immense authority in the investigative phase  

they may have taken the case down the wrong path aagain as with the security guards and are now desperate to pin this on joran but they don't know what and have no body and no material evidence.  it is possible that Joran has been set up by other interests on the island to get back at dad.  he was indiscrete, visible, probably used his status as son of a judge and somebody was watching him and pounced when they saw an opportunity.  no that sounds to complicated.

Yes...it could be so simple we couln't imagine...
I hope the truth comes out soon.
I still hope NH is alive, and otherwise I think it is important for her family ,
Aruba and the collective "us" to have some closure.   In a very big way this has touched us all deeply.
still, why so much violence there???  surrounding this??

[WonderWoman]

Before everyone jumps on me, someone asked me to repost this here...

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223&start=0

edited to include link for Deepak's alleged email in the other thread.  

RB

[chloe2]

So topic but I can't find it because there's like 29,000 posts plus lol

Does anyone remember where Jug Twitty worked?

I never noted that down  

Was he the one who worked at AmSouth bank, or was that her uncle?

[mordred]

LilOrphan -
I read your long theory & found it mostly intriguing but was left unsatisfied. If the VDS & Kalpoes know who is holding Nat, that person sure has a lot of clout to scare them more than all the attention & troubles that are before them!! They will never ever get over this - no matter where they live!

However it got me thinking. What if Joran's second story is true & he left her at the beach. She then meets some pre-arranged person & off they go! Remember the Lynard Skynard-'Freebird' song she wrote in her yearbook?

If I leave here tomarrow
Would you still remember me?
For I must be traveling on now
There’s too many places I’ve gotta see
If I stay here with you girl
Things just couldn’t be the same

Cause I’m as free as a bird now...........

I have always been bothered by the COMPLETE lack of physical evidence in this case, and the ability of the suspects to defeat all efforts (FBI & Aruba Police) to give up something! Its possible they don't know much! Then again...

[CancunMole]

So topic but I can't find it because there's like 29,000 posts plus lol

Does anyone remember where Jug Twitty worked?

I never noted that down  

Great Search tool, "jug and work":

mehill10



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 57
Location: Gardendale,AL
 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: "Jug's" job  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
iquitos wrote:
"Jug" is a Manager at Phoenix Metals and is getting support from McWane Company. Look them up. They are big in the pipe manufacturing business. Headquartered in Birmingham. They provided the jet for the chop chop arrival of the family to Aruba and, I suspect, with local support of the heavy kind at least initially. A senior guy at McWane has a daughter at mountain brook high. "Jug" also obviously knows his way around.

[tuberide]

from the SBF after party

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

So topic but I can't find it because there's like 29,000 posts plus lol

Does anyone remember where Jug Twitty worked?

I never noted that down  

Phoenix Metals?
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118222305169320.xml&coll=2#continue

[Florida_mom]

From Riehl World this evening:

"After discussions with two independent sources on Aruba this evening, it would appear that a strong working theory by some close to the investigation is that Paulus Van der Sloot was directly involved with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, up to and including disposal of her body after the fact.

This could explain Joran Van der Sloot's unusual interaction with Satish and Deepak Kalpoe during interrogation, as first reported here.

That interaction involved Joran Van der Sloot changing his story immediately after being called a liar by one of the Kalpoe brothers for stating that he had picked him up at the beach."

I posted that here about 3 hours ago. Got no reaction.

Sorry, just came on board.  I thought it interesting. This confirms the theory of his direct involvement, not just knowledge and cover-up after the fact.

[medleyrelay]

This case is such a mystery - In one respect I think Coco is right that this is them going down the wrong path again with pressure from the Twitty posse - and the US media - and the only crime of Joran and dad's is lying initially and father telling him not to talk (which again I will say I agree with)

But then you listen to Beth tonite and she sits there totally convinced that this goes beyond this group and more arrests are coming and she is convinced it is a kidnapping and she thinks daddy is more involved than son.

But then one of the first things we heard today is the investigation was at a stalemate - did we not hear that earlier today - sometimes I get confused as to which day we hear what?  

All I know is all of this throwing people in prison - no talking to family no talking to lawyers interegated for hours - in our country people would be screaming about human rights - and it seems the US and media is saying this is all good - I was glad to hear that attn tonite on Larry King speak about rights and how this is for sure going to ruin the lives of this family and maybe they are basically innocent.

[Ting]

can you point to even one verifiable example of such a film?

I would strongly recommend that no one post such information to public message boards, or communicate any knowledge of same to anyone but the appropriate law enforcement agency in the country in which the crime was committed, and even then, use extreme caution.

[Ocicat]

There is some reason why Beth is convinced that there are more people involved.

Maybe she's been reading/listening to all the theorists too much.

I don't know. Did you see the interview tonight? I thought she sounded pretty clear about what was based on information versus her "gut feeling." Not to say that her head isn't spinning at this point but she came across to me as having that kind of clarity that comes with intense stress and focus. I thought she was straight-forward in saying that the "other people" idea was based on factual info. she is privy to.  I found her credible.

[flutiegirl]

Hi all
been here since the beginning and posted in another forum but this is the first time here.
Not sure if this has been talked about but WHY would Jorans father give such an attitude to Natalees parents that first night if he had absolutely no knowledge of anything happening. He had to have known, because he acted defensive from the get go. My thoughts are that Natalee died of an overdose, alcohol , drugs, after Joran tried to force himself on her AFTER the Kalpoe brothers dropped them at the beach. I think he freaked out and called his father to come bail him out, then after his father got there and asked him, who else knows you were with this girl, the son tells him the Kalpoes had dropped him off. The father has the son call them and tell them to get online in an hour. That would explain the meeting the next day around their pool. Maybe the father scared the two boys into covering for Joran because they thought he was  a judge. In the mean time I believe the two people who hid Natalees body were Joran and his dad.  His dad is too shady and his son is just like him. I feel for the mother because i believe she is in the dark about all of this.

[cast]

So topic but I can't find it because there's like 29,000 posts plus lol

Does anyone remember where Jug Twitty worked?

I never noted that down  

Jug is a manager of a manufacturing plant.

[vet4bush]

Airline tickets to Aruba - $986.00

Cold drinks and your own cabana - $350.00

Leaving Aruba unhamed or even alive - PRICELESS

[bendex]

The more I watch and listen - and remind myself of how much we do only *think* we know because we are reading here nonstop and listening to all the hyped news broadcasts, the more I think Hannie is very right to worry that the arrests have more to do with US media pressure than with standard legal practice.  I keep remembering that initially there was a big uproar to arrest somebody and they grabbed the two security guards and that was a mistake.

The lawyer on Larry King was saying that if he was PVDS he would have told his kid to say nothing at all - and that if he was one of the Hollaway/Twitty's he would be at the police station all the time demanding they pick up everyone imaginable. I worry that the Holloway/Twitty pressure may be pushing this case in one direction and it might be the wrong one.

The idea that this complicated kidnap/prostitution/white slave thing was cooked up in the time available in the accepted timeline is off the wall - and assumes more fact behind the arrests than needed in the Dutch system.

I'm voting that Joran left her alive on the beach near the HI and that Paul is in trouble for telling him not to talk or told him that since he told a story coz he was afraid and then everything got way more intense (NH missing and not turning up as a runaway, etc) to stick to it since he was afraid his son would get blamed. This would turn out to be the wrong advice but I could see how he might do that.

not willing to blame anyone yet ... still all hearsay and rumour

very perceptive coco,  the twittys are throwing their weight around in a scandalous manner aided and abetted by the US media.  the arubans are intimidated and are trying to please the twittys who are manipulating the cops through the FBI.  The FBI is politcallly savvy too tho we now have reports they are scaling down (TDY fatigue).   i have the feeling that the prosecutor is young and inexperienced.  note too that the judge on the case so far, who was imported from curacao, probably because vandersloot could not sit for is son's case, is leaving so we have a revolving door there.  the prosecutor has immense authority in the investigative phase  

they may have taken the case down the wrong path aagain as with the security guards and are now desperate to pin this on joran but they don't know what and have no body and no material evidence.  it is possible that Joran has been set up by other interests on the island to get back at dad.  he was indiscrete, visible, probably used his status as son of a judge and somebody was watching him and pounced when they saw an opportunity.  no that sounds to complicated.

Yes...it could be so simple we couln't imagine...
I hope the truth comes out soon.
I still hope NH is alive, and otherwise I think it is important for her family ,
Aruba and the collective "us" to have some closure.   In a very big way this has touched us all deeply.
still, why so much violence there???  surrounding this??

violence in what sense ?

[writenow]

...anyone find it odd that if PAPASloot was intelligent enough to actually orchestrate and possibly participate in this ordeal, that he would be dumb enough to then  hang himself with his interviews with media, etc??

And the answer would be :::bing! bing! bing!::: SCOTT PETERSON!

bing bing wrong
scott peterson did not hang himself by participating in media interviews

Actually, he kinda did. I think it was with Diane Sawyer. He used the past tense to refer to Laci when everyone still thought she was alive -- not too long after she disappeared. Everyone commented on how odd it was that he was referring to her in the past tense, because her parents and friends weren't. Played the tape of the interview in his trial.