Lively Case Discussion #507 8/6 - 8/7/2006

[klaasend]

Turn on FOX - there are going to have something about the case again tonight.  Probably same as last night...but maybe with Beth??

[Ono]

I think it is in a way, a white herring, Ono & Carnut, but there was a specific reason for the car being white and rented.  Not sure what the significance of that is, but I would like to find out who had a white rental unit that night.  I think there is someone onto which they are trying to place blame, someone specific.

My first thought was that they were going to insinuate Mountain Brook students rented the car.

[Tylergal]

I think it is in a way, a white herring, Ono & Carnut, but there was a specific reason for the car being white and rented.  Not sure what the significance of that is, but I would like to find out who had a white rental unit that night.  I think there is someone onto which they are trying to place blame, someone specific.

My first thought was that they were going to insinuate Mountain Brook students rented the car.

To quote Lala's, "are you my Doppleganger?"

[Carnut]

Ya know, Pickup trucks are usually rode hard and put away wet.

Here's a coupe of shots of the interior of my 77 Chevy Pickup that I bought new in 77.

Took the pics a couple of years ago and it was about the dirtiest it's ever been.

Interior Pic

another  Interior Pic

[Ono]

Hammer:

Thank you very much for that information...it's very vital to this picture I think.  Yes...that name does sound as though he is a Brit...(I was close..LOL!)

[AZLady]

Okay, Tylergal, I didn't get far reading, but I started to my own analysis.  Here you go.
============================================

On June 9th 2005, at approximately 12.00 hours, we the reporting officers interviewed as suspect in this the man named: Joran Andreas Petrus van der SLOOT, born in Arnhem, Netherlands on August 6th 1987, no profession student (International School of Aruba) and living on Montanja number 19 on Aruba.

His statement was made in dutch and was transcribed by me, JACOBS, and goes as follows.

Before we, the reporting officers, started the interview, I, JACOBS, informed the suspect that he was not obliged to make a statement and that this interview would be recorded on tape.

Although I have been informed by you that I under no obligation to make statements, I am still willing to make a statement in accordance with the truth.

On Sunday, I do not remember the date any more, I went at approximately 16.00 hours, to the "Excelsior Casino" at the Holiday Inn Hotel to play "Texas Hold'm poker". (with this the suspect is talking about May 29th 2005). I went with my father named "Paul van der SLOOT" to the casino. I went to play "Texas Hold'm Poker" with my father. It is a poker game in which you get 7 cards and you have to make a card combination with your best (5) cards. You get 500 U.S. $ of fake money and with this money you play. Joran is careful to tell us he was not technically “gambling.”  This is a detail he was coached to include.  I was done sooner than my father and I went and hung around in the casino. When it was half time of the game my father wanted to go home to go and babysit my ten year old brother. We know this is a lie as the boys were with Anita.  He’s covering for his father.  At my father's request I sat in for him and played "Texas Hold'm poker. I am not sure as to when half time was but I think it was between 19.00 and 20.00 hours. I kept on gambling until I lost too. This was according to me until 21.30 to 22.00 hours. I went to walk around in the casino and after that went to the "Blackjack" table to play blackjack. He offers many details when lying but when telling the truth (I went to play blackjack) he does not supply the detailed description. While I was sitting at the table the girl "Natalee" that is missing now to the blackjack table together with her friends. When the English speaking girls came to the blackjack table they introduced themselves. I do not remember the names of the girls anymore but they were from the same group of students that Natalee belonged to. This actually happened, but he doesn’t supply details, and claims he can’t remembers names.  According to me the friends of Natalee played blackjack but Natalee didn't. A girl that was sitting at my left side on the table asked me in English if I could help her play blackjack because she had lost U.S. $ 360,= of her father's money. The girl bet U.S. $ 20,= in the game and I helped her win U.S. $ 100,= with it. After the girl had won U.S. $ 100,= I advised her to call it quits but she wanted to continue. I told her again that she should stop and her friends also said that she should stop. Probably the girl after that went to cash in her chips for money. The girlfriends of the girl asked me if I was going to "Carlos & Charlies" that night. I told them that I couldn't do that because I had school tomorrow. The girls kept insisting that I should meet them at "Carlos & Charlies" because it was their last night on Aruba. After they kept insisting I agreed to meet with at "Carlos & Charlies". I don't know that name of the girl but I remember her from a photo in the newspaper on which Natalee was printed on the left side of her friends and the other girl was on the right side of the friends. This girl is the same girl that sat at my left side at the blackjack table. After this I told the girl that it was OK and that I would do my best to go to "Carlos & Charlies". This is a great deal of attention and detail to a casual exchange of probably two or three sentences between them.  I suspect this is elaborated or actually made up.  After that the group of girls walked to the Sportsbar. In the Sportsbar I also saw to two acquaintances who were watching baseball. Apparently Joran followed the girls to the Sportsbar.  I greeted my two acquaintances and told them that I was doing fine too and that I would be going to "Carlos & Charlies" that night. My two acquaintances are named "Luis" and "Joshua". I regularly meet them at Carlos & Charlies. The last name of Luis is "BETANCOURT". I do not know the last name of Joshua. Luis BETANCOURT is a Venezuelan and according to me Joshua is Colombian but I don't know that for sure. Joran’s attention to nationalities seems to be a way he establishes status. After that I walked next to the group of girls and they said to me that I should not forget to go to Carlos & Charlies. I told that that I would do my best. The girl who stood printed on the right side in the newspaper told me that she was going to take a shower and that she would then go to Carlos & Charlies. I did not make an agreement with the girl as to how late I would meet them at Carlos & Charlies. Again, an unusual amount of detail about a conversation that was probably no more than 30 seconds. Joran seems determined to create the impression that the girls want or desire to be with him.  After that I walked outside through the casino and when I got outside I called my father from my mobile phone which has the number "REMOVED" on the mobile phone of my mother. My mother has a mobile phone with the number "REMOVED". I called my father on that phone because my mother was outside of the country and my father had her phone in his possession. When I called my father it was approximately 23.00 hours. I told my father that I was ready and if he could come and pick me up at "Mc Donalds". After that I had called my friend "Jaime CARASQUILLA" on his mobile phone. I do not know his phone number from memory but I have programmed his mobile phone number in the memory of my mobile phone under the name "Beto". I asked Beto what he was doing and whether he wanted to accompany me in going to Carlos & Charlies. Beto answered me that he was doing nothing but that he could not accompany me to Carlos & Charlies because he had to go to work the next day. Beto works with a transport company but I do not know the name of that company. After that I called Deepak KALPOE and asked him what he was doing and if he wanted to come with me to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak told me he was closing up "Inex" and that he would accompany me to Carlos & Charlies because he didn't have to go to work the next day. Joran has communicated with four separate male friends to join him at C&C’s that night.  Was he taking advantage of the fact that this was the American girls’ last night?  Is this what he was communicating to his friends?  We know they pick up Americans at C&C’s for raping on their last night on Aruba.  It sounds as if Joran is issuing invitations to an impromptu party. Deepak told me that he would be going home first to take a bath and that after that he would come and pick me up at my place. Deepak's nickname is "Tupac". Deepak has a mobile phone with the number "REMOVED". I walked through the Hyatt parking lot where they have a Coca Cola vending machine and there I bought a can of coke. After that I walked to Mc Donalds and had bought a Mc Flurry there. At 23.00 hours my father came to pick me up at Mc Donalds. I am not sure about the time because I never wear a watch. This is Joran’s excuse or explanation for not getting the time right in his many stories.  It saves him from accountability.
To your question as to where my mobile phone is, I answer that it is at home. My mobile phone is on my desk in my room.

To your question whether I have a girlfriend, I answer to you that I had a girlfriend. After this happened I told my girlfriend what had happened and she wasn't happy about it. My girlfriend's name is "Elaine" but I do not remember het last name now. I do not know the address where Elaine lives but I can point out her house to you. Elaine is Aruban and she studies at the Colegio Arubano Oranjestad. A few weeks ago she and her fellow students went to Venezuela. She now is in class V-4 on the Colegio Arubano and she is 17 years old. Elaine has a mobile phone, but her name is under the nickname "Fishy" in the memory of my mobile phone. This is obviously a “new” girlfriend as he doesn’t even know her last name.  I don’t think this is a relationship in the sense we think of boyfriend/girlfriend, but simply the last girl with whom he had sex.

I have to say that I have another girlfriend now. Her name is "Florencia METZ". She just graduated from the Mavo and lives behind "Codemsa". Her friends and acquaintances call her "Flor". I do not know the number of her house but I can point it out to you. Flor has a mobile phone with the number "REMOVED". Flor is from Argentina and I talk dutch with her. Why does he bring this up?  Is he asked about a new girlfriend?  If so, then I wonder about the line of questioning.  If not, then he is attempting to build his image, his machismo, to the police officers.  This new girlfriend is from Argentina which most likely provides a higher status on Aruba than an Aruban girlfriend would have. He appears to be portraying himself as someone the girls all want and like.  He goes into great detail to explain how the American girls are practically begging him to go to C&C’s, but he doesn’t know their names.  These two girlfriends are obviously not relationships, but social accessories, as he doesn’t know much about them.  The details included are superficial and don’t indicate a personal relationship with either “girlfriend.”  The kid has a real problem with depersonalization of others and a serious need to promote his own social status.

After my father came and picked me up at Mc Donalds we drove home. I took a shower. After that I had gotten dressed again and according to me at approximately 24.00 hours, Deepak and Satish came and picked me up at home. Before they came and picked me up I had called Deepak to ask where he has and he told me that he was on his way. At approximately 00.15 hours the three of us left for Carlos & Charlies. (with this Monday May 30th is meant; comment Jacobs). I have to say that I also called Flor and asked if she wanted to come to Carlos & Charlies. She answered that she wasn't allowed to go from her dad. Flor is 16 years old.  However, he told us his “girlfriend” on May 30th was Elaine. So why call Flor?  Was she supposed to act as the bait for the American girls much like Stefy did on Bailey Ann’s last night in Aruba?  This is a well-practiced routine and calling Flor to help was a part of it.  However, luckily for Flor, her Dad wouldn’t let her out that night.

To your question as to what clothes I was wearing when I was picked up by Deepak and Satish, I can answer the following. I wore a white/blue shirt, a blue/white jeans trouser or a three-quart black trouser and a couple of white shoes or crème coloured boots. I do not remember now what underwear I was wearing. I do not remember how Deepak and Satish were dressed. Details are not significant to Joran unless he is making them up to suit his own purpose or to communicate his superior social standing.  Whenever we read details that Joran has interjected, it is generally a lie and created for a reason.  I didn't tell my father that I was going to Carlos & Charlies with Deepak and Satish. I hadn't asked my father for permission because he would most likely refuse and usually I ask permission from my mother. This is interesting because it indicates that Joran and his father are not close, and Joran expects his father to deny him permission.  However, this is not a significant issue to Joran.  It's interesting to me that Joran is protecting his father after he is arrested, but he has little regard for his father as an authority figure.  In fact, he tells us here that he just goes around his father as an authority, either by appealing to his mother or simply ignoring his father.To your question with whom I regularly go to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I regularly go there with "Freddy ZEDAN" and "Jaime CARASQUIA". Freddy is a Venezuelan and Jaime is a Columbian. The boy named "Koen GOTENBOS" also regularly goes out with us. The names of my three friends are in the memory of my mobile phone. Freddy is under the name "Fefi" and Koen under the name "Cul". These are the rest of the pimps—the boys who regularly go to C&C’s to pick up, drug and rape American women.  Again we see Joran’s identification with nationality as a way to classify people.  I think it is a status thing to these people, and Joran sees American and Dutch at the top of the status chart, with these other nationalities ranked somewhere below.  Continual mention of the nationality of a person places Joran in the social stratus of the island, reminds him of his perceived superiority and other’s inferiority.  Joran has a real problem with status.
After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.  Social status reference, again.

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week. He knows exactly how he got the pass and who gave it to him, but he also knows enough not to tell.  He’s communicating that to the police, also.  He’s saying “I have contacts and I know the code of silence, so don’t bother trying to get me to talk.”

When we entered Carlos & Charlies I was greeted by the girl who is printed on the picture. When we got in I saw that Natalee was dancing on the stage/podium. I saw that Natalee wasn't holding a drink. The friend of Natalee said to me to go and dance with Natalee because she fancied me. I took her word for it that Natalee was interested in me. Natalee made hand gestures for me to come and dance with her. I also did not see Natalee with a purse/handbag. She did this about seven to eight times. After I had refused to dance with Natalee Deepak, Satish and myself walked to the bar. Notice the details he includes here.  This is building his own social status.  There we bought a "Yard Whisky Coke". Such a drink costs U.S. $ 12,-. It is a plastic cup and it comes in different colours. I payed for all three drinks. Again, details that relate his social imminence.  He says exactly how much he spent and that he bought all the drinks.  This shows he has money and social status. I got a red cup but I do not remember now what colour cups Deepak and Satish got. Then the three of us walked back to the stage/podium. While I stood there Natalee saw me again. When she saw me she got down from the stage/podium and walked over to me. She grabbed my hand and asked me if I would go to the bar with her. On the way there she said to me that I had to drink a Jellyshots (handwritten with an arrow pointing to this section of the statement, it says "or body shot") off of her. I at that moment in time did know what a Jellyshot was but I did not know that she went and laid down on the bar and that I had to drink the Jellyshot from her belly button. He is trying to portray himself as innocent here of knowing what and how a Jellyshot is taken.  I also notice that the verb tenses become confused when he tries to explain that he knows what a jelly shot is but not from where he will lick the shot.  It might be the translation, but he doesn’t have this confusion in other areas of this report, so I have to think this is a lie he trying to float at the moment of telling this and attempting to portray himself as an innocent youth.

When we arrived at the bar Natalee asked for a Jellyshot. Natalee then went and laid on top of the metal bar. The bartender handed me a small plastic container/cup in which was the Jellyshot that I placed on her belly button. After I had done that I sucked the Jellyshot from her belly button. Jellyshot is a jello with alcohol in it. I do not know what kind of alcohol is in it. When Natalee got onto the bar I thought that she was drunk. I could clearly tell that Natalee had been drinking. I could smell this from the smell that came out of Natalee's mouth. I also have to say that when I saw Natalee dancing I also noticed that she had been drinking. While I was talking to Natalee Satish stood beside me the entire time.
He’s attempting to build a case for Natalee being drunk, obviously.  Notice the bartender hands him the jellyshot and Joran places it where he wants.  This is a fairly common routine in bars like C&C’s that feature drinking “games” as entertainment.  Joran previously said he goes to C&C's about three times a week.  I don't believe he doesn't know how a jellyshot is intended to be drunk when he's seen it done there at least three times a week.

[Tylergal]

Ono, I think we are thinking just alike.  It would be interesting to know when this white car was "thought up," and if it was about the same time as the "Alabama kid wanted my cup."  Those two statements are lies dead on their face, but I am thinking that the old maggot patrol was early on going to try to blame it on Natalee's friends.  Of course, that was only possible in the minds of the sick and perverted friends of Anita.

[Ono]

I think it is in a way, a white herring, Ono & Carnut, but there was a specific reason for the car being white and rented.  Not sure what the significance of that is, but I would like to find out who had a white rental unit that night.  I think there is someone onto which they are trying to place blame, someone specific.

My first thought was that they were going to insinuate Mountain Brook students rented the car.

To quote Lala's, "are you my Doppleganger?"

  Nope..I'm just me.

[mishy]

Well, for one thing, right off the bat, Deepak circling the block even once was just totally weird, just for starters....and anybody can quickly fasten a seatbelt in the blink of an eye....seatbelt/police excuse pretty lame.  Maybe he was trying to make up his own mind as to whether or not he wanted to be implicated in Joran's kidnapping fiasco that night and was thinking about bailing out, so he runs around the block several times deciding?? Maybe they were all arguing in Dutch or the other language?

Joran tells they were speaking in Dutch or Papiamento, but I believe Dutch, and that Natalee could not understand them.  I think had it been Papiamento with her understanding of Spanish, she would have been able to understand a good bit of that, so I prefer to think it was Dutch.

That first of all was very rude, criminal implications aside.  Just speaks to the lack of manners by this big roughian who looks like Frankenstein.

So true...also tells me that they didn't want Natalee to know what they had in store for her....didn't wanna tip their prey off...

[Lala'sMom]

Evening Monkeys.  I won't even comment on the kids room talk...you should see my daughter's room.  She's trying to move back to college and there isn't a clear spot on the floor.  

What are we talking about tonight?  I am still tired from the late shift.  

[Ono]

Ono, I am still thinking about the "white rental car" that was following them, as being the reason they "kept driving around."  Did the white rental car indicate some of their friends from another place, perhaps Columbia or Venezuela was following them and partaking in this, as it would be necessary for someone from those parts to "rent a car," as they could not drive it through the Caribbean.  How could you tell from looking in your rearview mirror that a car is rented.  I believe that was changed back in the 1990s when ne'er do wells were able to detect tourists by the "rental sticker" and all car companies went to a smaller way of recognition.  As we rent Enterprise cars when we travel, I can say the sticker is quite small, placed on the rear bumper with a very small "e" on it, so that it can be recognized by perhaps someone traveling behind it up very, very close but not from a distance.

Thanks Missin'  

Hey Tylergal and all Monkeys!  How are you?  In Aruba you can tell if a car is a visitor or a local as the rental cars license plates begin with V and license plates from cars from locals begin with an A.

[Ono]

Ono, I am still thinking about the "white rental car" that was following them, as being the reason they "kept driving around."  Did the white rental car indicate some of their friends from another place, perhaps Columbia or Venezuela was following them and partaking in this, as it would be necessary for someone from those parts to "rent a car," as they could not drive it through the Caribbean.  How could you tell from looking in your rearview mirror that a car is rented.  I believe that was changed back in the 1990s when ne'er do wells were able to detect tourists by the "rental sticker" and all car companies went to a smaller way of recognition.  As we rent Enterprise cars when we travel, I can say the sticker is quite small, placed on the rear bumper with a very small "e" on it, so that it can be recognized by perhaps someone traveling behind it up very, very close but not from a distance.

Thanks Missin'  

Hey Tylergal and all Monkeys!  How are you?  In Aruba you can tell if a car is a visitor or a local as the rental cars license plates begin with V and license plates from cars from locals begin with an A.

OOPS! Didn't go down far enough to post.  Thanks for the info.

[mishy]

Thanks, Klaas.  In other words, it's just a rolling disaster, awaiting some local or interloper to mug and rob tourists.

Tyler, you gotta let 'em know who to target!          

[mrs. red]

Hi Monkeys.... is anyone else having issues listening to Dana's show?

[robots]

where are the sneakers?

i do not know BUT

well, i can tell you this in my opinion

the sneakers were used when they were tied to a cage or a body with a
cage or a body that was sunk with something as a TEMPORARY  LOCATION.

joran swims out at night and puts the body out somewhere in the water..not necessarily on the BEACH he says he was on.
but you see, he needs to be able to ALERT the people (PAULUS or others
where the BODY is ) so they can GO and retreive the body later on that night or the next night or the next day. the SNEAKERS are the >marker<
so people will be able to LOCATE the BODY


SNEAKERS FLOAT  

[AZLady]

What's his topic tonight?  I need to tune in.

[Tylergal]

Lala's, you worked hard enough in that length of time to last a lifetime.  Great thinking.

AzLady, thank you for that.  I am trying to move some of these great analyses to Klaas' thread.  I finished yours.  I am going to work on Bearly, Anna and Lala's after I feed my husband.  I have to put food I made for lunch on a plate, cover it with paper towel and push the "heat button."  

[SunFreak2]

Ono,

True story, a friend bought a new boat and we all were excited because we could go diving off of it.. Well he didn't like us getting water in his boat so after we would come out of the ocean, he made us used the towel to dry up the water we dropped in the boat.. It was kinda funny, we all just looked at each other and wonder if he really knew he had a boat..

LOL.  My Dad insists that you dry the shower stall or tub with the towel after your bath.  My house is clean enough to be healthy and dirty enough to be happy!  I have too many dogs for it to be spotless every day!

[AZLady]

http://mms://streams.oncomputers.info/ctalk

Mrs. Red, this link above works.  I'm listening to Dana's show now--he's playing music now.

[AZLady]

Lala's, you worked hard enough in that length of time to last a lifetime.  Great thinking.

AzLady, thank you for that.  I am trying to move some of these great analyses to Klaas' thread.  I finished yours.  I am going to work on Bearly, Anna and Lala's after I feed my husband.  I have to put food I made for lunch on a plate, cover it with paper towel and push the "heat button."  

Don't you wonder why they can't do that for themselves?  My husband can't seem to master that trick, either.