Lively Case Discussion #507 8/6 - 8/7/2006

[Bearlyhere]

ok...feeling lonely...I'll sign off....

ldstlou, get back here and roll up your sleeves and get in on the conversation.  We are here for Natalee, come join us!

where are we?  i read over transcrpts of police reports this morning...

What are your thoughts?  I thought it was helpful to go line by line so nothing was missed.  What about you?

[Red]

If I ever called in you would probably hear a big boom and that would be me hitting the floor from fainting because I would be so nervous.

Just don't have ice cubes in your mouth when calling in - he picks up the line quickly and you are directly on the air.  I swallowed a large ice cube whole once when he answered before what I thought was even the first ring - tough time trying to talk and get the darn ice cube to melt at the same time  

SLEUTH !!!  

[Tylergal]

Red, your response is very well articulated.

Sleuth, that hurt.  I have done that before. It is very painful. Ouch.

[ldstlou]

I felt I could make a real difference. I had gone to Aruba for 30 years. It was not just as a tourist, knew and met many Arubans, some in the govt. I knew exactly how the island worked. What was to be expected.

If anyone asks Beth or Dave they will say ... man Red had this pegged from the beginning. Along this difficult journey for truth I have told them what they will expect and what most likely will happen. Whether it was how the case would be handled or how the tourism would fall. Was never going to happen over night. It was going to be a slow drip and before you know it the basement is flooded and the house is a mess.

The true reality set in last year at this very time. This is when I was in Aruba digging in the landfill. I cannot even put into words how difficult it was to dig and unbury pile after pile of garbage right next to Dave Holloway. We wanted to find her, but there was no way I was ever prepared to. What would happen if we did? I can't imagine the scene. Nor could I imagine a father's grief finally finding his child.

It was gut wrenching and even more so knowing the BS obstacles that we were presented with by Aruba.

Wanting to help people is the key. No one asks for this celebrity of being a parent of a missing person. They help of providing someone you have never met before is the key. That is a selfless act. We all need to remember in our lives the words "selfless."

If this is how I can help people now and in the future, then there was a reason for all of it. It certainly is not easy to juggle the life I lead. But it is worth it to me. And obvious worth it to the many people who involve themselves with these cases.

It means people care. That is important. It says something about our humanity.

Helping those who need our help who we have never met. Along the way we make some life long friends and meet people we never thought we would. Creating a last bond of caring ... that is what is important in life.

Wow Red!! Glad I came back just to read these words!! What a man you are!! What a man in every sense of the word!! The world needs more people like you and your wife and Klaas...and the dedicated people on this site!! I have always said...if I ever have a problem with my child...and I KNOW i WON'T!!! bit if I did...I know you all would back me!! Hope you know I'd back you all too.
My question is Red...isn't there anyone you know on the island that could help us besides Jossy? SOMEONE!!! that could mingle and help find answers?!

[Tylergal]

I have not seen Lala's back on since she went to make a call.  Did she fall in the floor and faint or was it the garlic breath we were talking about?  Lala's, call out to my monkey friend.

[SunFreak2]

More BOYCOTT ARUBA labels-

I made these last night.  They fit on Avery 8293 labels, 1 1/2" round.  I sent the template to Klaas, so she could send it out to anyone who wants them.  Here is a sample (larger than actual size) of the label.

[Sue]

More BOYCOTT ARUBA labels-

I made these last night.  They fit on Avery 8293 labels, 1 1/2" round.  I sent the template to Klaas, so she could send it out to anyone who wants them.  Here is a sample (larger than actual size) of the label.

I love it great job

[Bearlyhere]

I felt I could make a real difference. I had gone to Aruba for 30 years. It was not just as a tourist, knew and met many Arubans, some in the govt. I knew exactly how the island worked. What was to be expected.

If anyone asks Beth or Dave they will say ... man Red had this pegged from the beginning. Along this difficult journey for truth I have told them what they will expect and what most likely will happen. Whether it was how the case would be handled or how the tourism would fall. Was never going to happen over night. It was going to be a slow drip and before you know it the basement is flooded and the house is a mess.

The true reality set in last year at this very time. This is when I was in Aruba digging in the landfill. I cannot even put into words how difficult it was to dig and unbury pile after pile of garbage right next to Dave Holloway. We wanted to find her, but there was no way I was ever prepared to. What would happen if we did? I can't imagine the scene. Nor could I imagine a father's grief finally finding his child.

It was gut wrenching and even more so knowing the BS obstacles that we were presented with by Aruba.

Wanting to help people is the key. No one asks for this celebrity of being a parent of a missing person. They help of providing someone you have never met before is the key. That is a selfless act. We all need to remember  in our lives the words "selfless."

If this is how I can help people now and in the future, then there was a reason for all of it. It certainly is not easy to juggle the life I lead. But it is worth it to me. And obvious worth it to the many people who involve themselves with these cases.

It means people care. That is important. It says something about our humanity.

Helping those who need our help who we have never met. Along the way we make some life long friends and meet people we never thought we would. Creating a last bond of caring ... that is what is important in life.

Red, that is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read, and I could tell it came from the very soul of your being.

You had something to lose by this, you gave up your trips to Aruba after 30 years.

Thanks for juggling.  I can imagine it's really hard.  Mrs. Red is an angel to give of her time with you, also.

Geeze, someone pass the tissues!

[ldstlou]

ok...feeling lonely...I'll sign off....

ldstlou, get back here and roll up your sleeves and get in on the conversation.  We are here for Natalee, come join us!

where are we?  i read over transcrpts of police reports this morning...

What are your thoughts?  I thought it was helpful to go line by line so nothing was missed.  What about you?

Lot of differences in Joran's testimony in car and Deepak's...but thing that really struck me...as I saw mentioned here...is the seeming PANIC!! Deepak had coming back from lighthouse after "Natalee had fallen asleep". Think there was a lot of sunconscious truth in his statements!!
Like "how could that be" "where is she staying" and sudden acceleration in speed...even talking about how loud the car was. I always thought the crime happened in car by pond...even more convinced now it happened in the car!!

[ldstlou]

Red, that is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read, and I could tell it came from the very soul of your being.

You had something to lose by this, you gave up your trips to Aruba after 30 years.

Thanks for juggling. I can imagine it's really hard. Mrs. Red is an angel to give of her time with you, also.

Geeze, someone pass the tissues!

Box for you and a box for me!! I mean it!!

[Bearlyhere]

More BOYCOTT ARUBA labels-

I made these last night.  They fit on Avery 8293 labels, 1 1/2" round.  I sent the template to Klaas, so she could send it out to anyone who wants them.  Here is a sample (larger than actual size) of the label.

Very nice, SF.  Everyone brings a different talent to the table.  

[Red]

My connections on Aruba have probably long passed. It is not the same place I went to when I was Natalee's age.

As you can kind of tell, I am a bit of a rebel. When I was NH's age I used to go to Aruba by myself, stay with families there. I always hung out with Arubans, never the tourists.

It was a much different place. There were some dangerous places, but the kids did not act like they do today. One had to worry about the Columbians and Venez in Club Scaramouch ... not the PIMPS.

I will tell you all what I told Beth. The difference is that Aruba has a greater % of gang, Pimp, crack nonsense than is normal. Sure it goes on everywhere, but the place has under 100K population. We read about the crack addict problem all the time in Aruba. We don;t make this up, it exists.

Its almost like an inner city mentality has taken over the island. How many tourists like to visit the inner city?

[Bearlyhere]

I have not seen Lala's back on since she went to make a call.  Did she fall in the floor and faint or was it the garlic breath we were talking about?  Lala's, call out to my monkey friend.

You mean Cacapina breath?

[ldstlou]

More BOYCOTT ARUBA labels-

I made these last night.  They fit on Avery 8293 labels, 1 1/2" round.  I sent the template to Klaas, so she could send it out to anyone who wants them.  Here is a sample (larger than actual size) of the label.

I love it great job

FANATASTIC!!! Met a lady in line at grocery store...we were talking about us both being on diest and how much weight we had lost...this was yesturday...then she said her motivation was she and her hubby were taking a trip to Aruba in 3 weeks...told her I am boycotting the island and why...she was well aware of what was happening...I think everytime she did an internet search Natalee's story came up!! Told her no hard feelings and good luck...she thought they would be safe...not teenagers...then I told her about hell family is going through and story of e-mail from married couple that circulated. Didn't want to send her off depressed abour her trip...she had lost A LOT OF WEIGHT!!!...but think she was depressed about her trip!! LOL

[Sleuth]

Red - well said.  We can't even imagine what it would have been like to be looking for Natalee but wondering how one could even handle it if she were found.  It would be both physically and emotionally draining.

[ldstlou]

My connections on Aruba have probably long passed. It is not the same place I went to when I was Natalee's age.

As you can kind of tell, I am a bit of a rebel. When I was NH's age I used to go to Aruba by myself, stay with families there. I always hung out with Arubans, never the tourists.

It was a much different place. There were some dangerous places, but the kids did not act like they do today. One had to worry about the Columbians and Venez in Club Scaramouch ... not the PIMPS.

I will tell you all what I told Beth. The difference is that Aruba has a greater % of gang, Pimp, crack nonsense than is normal. Sure it goes on everywhere, but the place has under 100K population. We read about the crack addict problem all the time in Aruba. We don;t make this up, it exists.

Its almost like an inner city mentality has taken over the island. How many tourists like to visit the inner city?

I know exactly what you are talking about Red...I wrote weeks ago about Youngstown Ohio...same mentality!! Feds had to come in and clean up the Police Dept. Hard to believe it exists today...but smaller and more tight knit communities...with limited opportunites!! IT HAPPENS!!

[Bearlyhere]

My connections on Aruba have probably long passed. It is not the same place I went to when I was Natalee's age.

As you can kind of tell, I am a bit of a rebel. When I was NH's age I used to go to Aruba by myself, stay with families there. I always hung out with Arubans, never the tourists.

It was a much different place. There were some dangerous places, but the kids did not act like they do today. One had to worry about the Columbians and Venez in Club Scaramouch ... not the PIMPS.

I will tell you all what I told Beth. The difference is that Aruba has a greater % of gang, Pimp, crack nonsense than is normal. Sure it goes on everywhere, but the place has under 100K population. We read about the crack addict problem all the time in Aruba. We don;t make this up, it exists.

Its almost like an inner city mentality has taken over the island. How many tourists like to visit the inner city?

I have never been to Aruba, but from what I have read from their own publications and have heard out of the mouths of their own people, I would not go.

Natalee and her family only shone a light on what was already there.  No doubt they have saved others.

Unlike what really happens when you shine a light on vermin, they didn't scatter, they thrived on the attention.

[Tylergal]

Red - well said.  We can't even imagine what it would have been like to be looking for Natalee but wondering how one could even handle it if she were found.  It would be both physically and emotionally draining.

Sleuth, do you remember the day they found the barrel in the water and Dave went diving for that in hopes (I guess against hope as well) that Natalee was in that barrel.  It matched the barrels at the VDS house.  My heart sank and I think I cried for two hours about that.  I was following the case but not posting much back then.  My husband was following it closely and we felt the same way.  I was out of town but saw it on TV and that night I called him and asked how he would have felt.  He was almost in tears.  I was.  That touched me so that I will never forget it, so I can "almost" understand how Red felt, but not really, to be there searching with Dave hoping against hope and hoping maybe not that Natalee would be found.  These are the heart wrenching moments.

[ldstlou]

One more thing Red...I live in City...we have community dumpsters in our allies....there are days smell is so bad...I gag lifting up lid!!! Especially in our heat!! Cannot even FATHOM!!!! the stench you all experienced!! GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!

[Bearlyhere]

Red - well said.  We can't even imagine what it would have been like to be looking for Natalee but wondering how one could even handle it if she were found.  It would be both physically and emotionally draining.

Hey, Sleuth, there were some good things on the podcast.  Jossy told us what Joran really acts like (even slipping in the word brat), and Jossy, Dana, and Red had words for the Tacopina's of the world.