Lively Case Discussion #507 8/6 - 8/7/2006

[Peaches]

One thing I wonder...
Joe crap head claims he has files that point away from Joran
although he doesnt share that information..
What will it take for JQK to get his hands on everything and
I mean everything , files, recorded statements, video
everything the ALE has???

I think Joe is FOS.

[the big hammer]

Arrest of JK2

On the day these three were officially "detained" and arrested, I believe June 8...

Are there any news reports describing the process of the their apprehension?

Does anyone know where they were individually when the polis apprehended them?  Or did they walk in voluntarily?  Or were they being questioned, and this led to detainment (ala van Croimvort)?

Are there any pictures of the initial stages of the detainment?

Does anyone know which polis officers were on the scene for arrest of jvds and/or k2?

[KatzHome]

Mishy asked me to post the Prayer Schedule here in case some of you haven't seen it.  There are still some times left for the August 9th 24hr prayer schedule:




Please go to the Monkey Lounge and let Mishy know if you can take one of the remaining times:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=135

Uhoh...  Hey guys...  I have to work on Wednesday night...  That's even a disappointment for me because my friends are coming into town ~ but we're having a "3-Card" Tournament ~ and the place I work almost never askes me to work overtime, and they're really good to me ~ so I didn't want to say no....    I'll be dealing during the time slot that I was assigned to...

So far, for the 3 times we've done this ~ I've asked for the 11:00-11:30am and 11:30-Noon time slots ~ because I'm on the West Coast ~ and that's right in time for our half-hour 8am morning Mass ~ and I stay there for a half hour afterwards...

And I got slipped into the night time slot...  I'm sorry that I haven't been here enough to see that before now...

Here's what I asked on the Prayer Day thread:

The day that we pick is important...  Wed, Thurs, Fri works well for me...

I'd like the 11 - Noon time slot ~ we're doing this in Eastern again, right?  Because 11 est is 8:00 pacific for me ~ time for morning Mass

May I suggest half hour time slots instead of hour long ones...

And, the day that we pick is important...  I have friends coming into town for a few days from the 8th to the 11th...

[Sue]

One thing I wonder...
Joe crap head claims he has files that point away from Joran
although he doesnt share that information..
What will it take for JQK to get his hands on everything and
I mean everything , files, recorded statements, video
everything the ALE has???

I think Joe is FOS.

Well exactly if he had something pointing away from baby sh** for brains
wouldnt he be singing like a canary??

[Bearlyhere]

One thing I wonder...
Joe crap head claims he has files that point away from Joran
although he doesnt share that information..
What will it take for JQK to get his hands on everything and
I mean everything , files, recorded statements, video
everything the ALE has???

I think Joe is FOS.

Well exactly if he had something pointing away from baby sh** for brains
wouldnt he be singing like a canary??

No, he would be crowing like a rooster.
 

[Sue]

One thing I wonder...
Joe crap head claims he has files that point away from Joran
although he doesnt share that information..
What will it take for JQK to get his hands on everything and
I mean everything , files, recorded statements, video
everything the ALE has???

I think Joe is FOS.

Well exactly if he had something pointing away from baby sh** for brains
wouldnt he be singing like a canary??

No, he would be crowing like a rooster.

ROFLMFAO

[San]

Arrest of JK2

On the day these three were officially "detained" and arrested, I believe June 8...

Are there any news reports describing the process of the their apprehension?

Does anyone know where they were individually when the polis apprehended them?  Or did they walk in voluntarily?  Or were they being questioned, and this led to detainment (ala van Croimvort)?

Are there any pictures of the initial stages of the detainment?

Does anyone know which polis officers were on the scene for arrest of jvds and/or k2?

I remember seeing a video of Joran in the police car with a towel over his head when they first took him into custody.

[Mere]

Hello friends.....

Am back from a week in Louisiana and on the previous thread....playing catch up.....I heard on CNN, I think, about the NY judges decision....and knew that I would be reading for a couple of days....

Missed all of you....Mere

Good to see you... I was asking about you earlier!

Thanks......these trips remind me so much of this case...of Natalee and her family..... and all of the SM along the way...!

I pass through Knoxville, Chattanouga, a little bit of Georgia, Birmingham, Meridian......and then southern LA.

Have any of the Birmingham monkeys been caught on the Summit between 4:30 and 5:00 p.m....?  I thought I would never get back on the Interstate again.....and then the weather closed in around Chattanooga....and I realized that I couldn't call BT and get a weather check as she was my computer friend....and I did not have her phone number.....I also thought about cp405 when I was driving the mountains in northern TN....at 10 p.m.....she would not have liked it any better than I did.....

Good group of people we have here.....

[Easywriter]

After reading through Joran’s statement, the only thing I find believable is that Natalee passed out and when she came to she asked where they were and that they should take her back to the hotel.  That is when all hell broke loose!

Almost sounds that way.
Hope you read Jossy's editorial on the FP.
He is bang on about suing those Goons and the Goon family.

I read it and responded.  I think the judge ruling to pay off Paulus might be a good thing and get the attention of the average person in Aruba.  Enough is enough!

That would be a good question for Jossy..
What do the good hard working citizens of Aruba thing about .. SH** for Brains collecting money from the goverment when there islands tourism is sinking due to sh** for brains family

I asked those questions last week and urged him to editorialize his feelings about the ruling in favor of PVDS.  In his interview with Dana last night I think he made his feelings pretty clear.

[Shizaru]

Shizaru wrote:

Only thing I can't figure out is how he gets rid of the body without a car. I think she was disappeared by 3:30, I don't think he'd be surfing the net if he still had a body to get rid of.

I was rereading the timeline and think I may have solved this problem- it looks like he could have killed her on the beach, walked home, and still had plenty of opportunity to dispose of her with a car before logging on.

Taco places Joran's phone call to Deepak at 2:26.  

Kock says Joran's "I'm home" TM was sent at a little after 3:00, and that the interval between phone call and TM corresponded to how long it would take to walk to Joran's home from the beach.  That's about a 40 minute walk so if call was at 2:26 TM time would have been around 3:05.  

Records shown to ABC PTL showed Joran on his computer from about 3:30-4:30.  

I remember Joran telling Greta that he logged on at 3:35 or 3:45, and that between sending the TM and logging on he made himself a sandwich, tho I'm having trouble finding that again.  

That leaves a 25-40 minute window in which Joran could have gone back to the beach in a vehicle and disposed of Natalee's body anywhere within a 10-20 minute driving radius of his home.

Two things I'd really like to know are:

1) what were the exact times of Joran's IM and computer logon.  

2) did Joran have access to either of his parents' car keys.  

I remember it being stated somewhere that he sometimes drove his mother's car.

The fishermen said they saw a white Suzuki on the beach, isn't one of the VDS cars an SUV type with either a red top and white bottom or vice versa?

[Bearlyhere]

One thing I wonder...
Joe crap head claims he has files that point away from Joran
although he doesnt share that information..
What will it take for JQK to get his hands on everything and
I mean everything , files, recorded statements, video
everything the ALE has???

I think Joe is FOS.

Well exactly if he had something pointing away from baby sh** for brains
wouldnt he be singing like a canary??

No, he would be crowing like a rooster.

ROFLMFAO

Or braying like a jackass.    

[NM]

Hi Monkeys,

Our whole staff is in an all-day training today, and I'm killing some time during the lunch break.

As many of you know, I work for the federal government, so I am your tax dollars at work.

This morning, your tax dollars paid me to ride around a big room several times on a pre-school size tricycle.

Aren't you glad your money is being invested so wisely?

HI BT!!
IMHO, you did more for your salary this AM then most tax dollar paid politicans do in a life time!!

Can I ride on the back next time?

[Sue]

Be back later.. My daughter is taking her drivers test

Clear the sidewalks...

[NM]

One thing I wonder...
Joe crap head claims he has files that point away from Joran
although he doesnt share that information..
What will it take for JQK to get his hands on everything and
I mean everything , files, recorded statements, video
everything the ALE has???

Sue,
That is b/c joe crap head really can't read.  He actaully has flies that pt away from jurin!

[klaasend]

Shizaru wrote:

Only thing I can't figure out is how he gets rid of the body without a car. I think she was disappeared by 3:30, I don't think he'd be surfing the net if he still had a body to get rid of.

I was rereading the timeline and think I may have solved this problem- it looks like he could have killed her on the beach, walked home, and still had plenty of opportunity to dispose of her with a car before logging on.

Taco places Joran's phone call to Deepak at 2:26.  

Kock says Joran's "I'm home" TM was sent at a little after 3:00, and that the interval between phone call and TM corresponded to how long it would take to walk to Joran's home from the beach.  That's about a 40 minute walk so if call was at 2:26 TM time would have been around 3:05.  

Records shown to ABC PTL showed Joran on his computer from about 3:30-4:30.  

I remember Joran telling Greta that he logged on at 3:35 or 3:45, and that between sending the TM and logging on he made himself a sandwich, tho I'm having trouble finding that again.  

That leaves a 25-40 minute window in which Joran could have gone back to the beach in a vehicle and disposed of Natalee's body anywhere within a 10-20 minute driving radius of his home.

Two things I'd really like to know are:

1) what were the exact times of Joran's IM and computer logon.  

2) did Joran have access to either of his parents' car keys.  

I remember it being stated somewhere that he sometimes drove his mother's car.

The fishermen said they saw a white Suzuki on the beach, isn't one of the VDS cars an SUV type with either a red top and white bottom or vice versa?

Red with a white top:

[Kat_Gram]

Arrest of JK2

On the day these three were officially "detained" and arrested, I believe June 8...

Are there any news reports describing the process of the their apprehension?

Does anyone know where they were individually when the polis apprehended them?  Or did they walk in voluntarily?  Or were they being questioned, and this led to detainment (ala van Croimvort)?

Are there any pictures of the initial stages of the detainment?

Does anyone know which polis officers were on the scene for arrest of jvds and/or k2?

here is a link to the early days Joran is wearing a towel on his monster sized noggin
http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/06/jvds-and-kalpoes-arrested.html

[blah]

Arrest of JK2

On the day these three were officially "detained" and arrested, I believe June 8...

Are there any news reports describing the process of the their apprehension?

Does anyone know where they were individually when the polis apprehended them?  Or did they walk in voluntarily?  Or were they being questioned, and this led to detainment (ala van Croimvort)?

Are there any pictures of the initial stages of the detainment?

Does anyone know which polis officers were on the scene for arrest of jvds and/or k2?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were those three arrests. Those three arrests, Nancy, took place before dawn this morning. The houses were also searched. Two houses were raided. Some property was taken away, among the property, a computer and also a car.

Two of the suspects were brothers. They are 18- and 19-years-old, we`re told. And the third suspect is a 17-year-old. What prosecutors have told us is that there’s evidence that Natalee met the 17-year-old in the casino at the "Holiday Inn" the night before she disappeared and those are the three men that she was last seen in their company outside Carlos and Charlie`s bar.

GRACE: Karl Penhaul, you say that their cars were taken and computers. What do police hope to gain from their computers?

PENHAUL: police have not said to us what they expect to gain from the items. In fact, they haven’t officially mentioned that they have taken a computer. But we have seen on videotape taken at the scene, we do see investigators taking away the hard drive of a computer.

But all options, as the prosecutor say, are open. They`re looking at all scenarios, in their words. So presumably, what they`re going to do is troll through that hard drive and see if there is anything on it that can give them any clues, Nancy.

GRACE: Karl Penhaul, the car that they impounded could have a lot of significance. Explain.

PENHAUL: This car seems to have been the car that Natalee Holloway got into along with those three men and drove off from Carlos and Charlie`s bar. Now, we`re obviously 11 days after Natalee’s disappearance. And I asked the police today as to why they hadn’t confiscated his car to start with.

They do say, however, that they did investigate the car initially shortly after Natalee’s disappearance but they didn’t seize it. They didn’t confiscate it. Obviously, I put it to them now, that a lot of any evidence, possible evidence in that car, could have been contaminated. But they say the confiscation at this point was a tactical decision, Nancy.

GRACE: Tactical decision?

Renee Rockwell, if you were looking for DNA evidence, fiber evidence, like what she was wearing that night, hair, fingerprints, you’ve got to move in quick. This is 11 days old. Why didn’t the cops seize it the day after?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And you can certainly imagine that it could be contaminated, Nancy. But the thing that concerns me the most is we don`t even know that this young lady is dead. I mean, there is no body. There is no blood that we know of yet.

[NM]

Arrest of JK2

On the day these three were officially "detained" and arrested, I believe June 8...

Are there any news reports describing the process of the their apprehension?

Does anyone know where they were individually when the polis apprehended them?  Or did they walk in voluntarily?  Or were they being questioned, and this led to detainment (ala van Croimvort)?

Are there any pictures of the initial stages of the detainment?

Does anyone know which polis officers were on the scene for arrest of jvds and/or k2?

Hey Hammer,
there is a infamous pics of jurin walking out of his house to police car and in police car w/ a lovely striped towel over his head. IMO the way he should have been "dressed" w/ covered head all his life!

Also on rwv blog Dan was apparently corresponding w/ him via email the night/early AM hour prior to his arrest. jurin asked him to remove his photo from the blog.
PS the arrest of the 3 was 5 AMish June 9.

[Kat_Gram]

here is a timeline from the same website.


 August 04, 2005
The General Timeline from May 30

05/30/05 Mon Natalee disappears
05/31/05 Tue questioning JVDS @ 5:00AM and 2:00PM
06/01/05 Wed Poster changed to kidnap
06/02/05 Thu Reward begins

06/04/05 Sat Police call boys witnesses
06/05/05 Sun Sec. Guard Arrests
06/06/05 Mon Search day gov. employees may take off at 2:00 PM

06/09/05 Thu Kalpoes and JVDS arrested
06/10/05 Fri Someone Confesses and Recants
06/13/05 Mon Sec Guards released

06/15/05 Wed VDS Home Searched
06/17/05 Fri Steve Croes arrested
06/18/05 Sat PVDS questioned 5 hours
06/19/05 Sun PVDS questioned 2 hours

06/21/05 Tue VDS and GVS and BHT interview
06/22/05 Wed VDS and GVS interview
06/23/05 Thu PVDS arrested

06/26/05 Sun Court hrg. PVDS released
06/27/06 Mon Steve Croes released

07/04/05 Mon Kalpoes released
07/05/05 Tue Beth speaks out on Kalpoes release
07/08/05 Fri Beth Apologizes

07/22/05 Fri FBI invited to help
07/25/05 Mon 3 New witnesses Come Forward

08/03/05 Wed Notes

[blah]

Arrest of JK2

On the day these three were officially "detained" and arrested, I believe June 8...

Are there any news reports describing the process of the their apprehension?

Does anyone know where they were individually when the polis apprehended them?  Or did they walk in voluntarily?  Or were they being questioned, and this led to detainment (ala van Croimvort)?

Are there any pictures of the initial stages of the detainment?

Does anyone know which polis officers were on the scene for arrest of jvds and/or k2?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were those three arrests. Those three arrests, Nancy, took place before dawn this morning. The houses were also searched. Two houses were raided. Some property was taken away, among the property, a computer and also a car.

Two of the suspects were brothers. They are 18- and 19-years-old, we`re told. And the third suspect is a 17-year-old. What prosecutors have told us is that there’s evidence that Natalee met the 17-year-old in the casino at the "Holiday Inn" the night before she disappeared and those are the three men that she was last seen in their company outside Carlos and Charlie`s bar.

GRACE: Karl Penhaul, you say that their cars were taken and computers. What do police hope to gain from their computers?

PENHAUL: police have not said to us what they expect to gain from the items. In fact, they haven’t officially mentioned that they have taken a computer. But we have seen on videotape taken at the scene, we do see investigators taking away the hard drive of a computer.

But all options, as the prosecutor say, are open. They`re looking at all scenarios, in their words. So presumably, what they`re going to do is troll through that hard drive and see if there is anything on it that can give them any clues, Nancy.

GRACE: Karl Penhaul, the car that they impounded could have a lot of significance. Explain.

PENHAUL: This car seems to have been the car that Natalee Holloway got into along with those three men and drove off from Carlos and Charlie`s bar. Now, we`re obviously 11 days after Natalee’s disappearance. And I asked the police today as to why they hadn’t confiscated his car to start with.

They do say, however, that they did investigate the car initially shortly after Natalee’s disappearance but they didn’t seize it. They didn’t confiscate it. Obviously, I put it to them now, that a lot of any evidence, possible evidence in that car, could have been contaminated. But they say the confiscation at this point was a tactical decision, Nancy.

GRACE: Tactical decision?

Renee Rockwell, if you were looking for DNA evidence, fiber evidence, like what she was wearing that night, hair, fingerprints, you’ve got to move in quick. This is 11 days old. Why didn’t the cops seize it the day after?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And you can certainly imagine that it could be contaminated, Nancy. But the thing that concerns me the most is we don`t even know that this young lady is dead. I mean, there is no body. There is no blood that we know of yet.

ooop forgot part - this was on 6-9-05