Lively Case Discussion #507 8/6 - 8/7/2006

[mrs. red]

Early on HI.  As soon as things start popping, the story is moved away from the HI and it never gets back to the HI.  Why?  Why did Posner feel it necessary to have people listen in on Beth's calls?  Why was there room renovation at the HI?

Makes you wonder...

[Tylergal]

Does anyone recall the date around which Paulus was no longer allowed to have visitation alone with Joran? Remember that? There were concerns he was coaching him even then?

And it was Anita who called out the ALE for exceeding the interrogation time limit on one occasion for I believe it was the warden for KIA who divulged that too?

June 17, 2005 – Dutch judge Bob Wit rules that Paulus not be allowed visitation with Joran. Wit also barred Carlos (Joran’s attorney) from visting b/c Carlo had visited with security guards during their arrest.  Joran’s family hires Richie Kock and Arjan Debie as attorneys for Joran.  Judge Wit extends remand of J2K

And the reason he visited the guards was because they were paid off.  This is why the guards aren't suing over their arrest.

Just like Steve Croes, paltry little job.  I heard it said that Abraham Jones got the got vacated by one beheaded man at the refinery.

[nonesuche]

Does anyone else find it interesting we never heard complaints from David Koch or the security guards, that they were mistreated in the KIA, yet we did hear Joran complain loudly?

So IF it were Joran who made the confession "something bad happened" and then Paulus succeeded in squashing that by playing the system to make the confession inadmissable, then since as I recall the judges were on a travel circuit aren't they ..... then wouldn't it seem likely it was Joran who made that confession if the ruling came down six days later?

So maybe there is some truth to Janssen having no love lost for Paulus, for he beat her at their own game?

tyler-
I find the whole HI thing suspect also, I also find it interesting so many would fear Paulus as much as they obviously do - i.e. Deepak, Satish, and mom & step pop Kalpoe UNLESS the Internet Cafe was their pay-off as well? What was the date for the police van confrontation between the three suspects, and the subsequent date for the sale of the Internet Cafe?

[Anna]

We believe in the justice system of Aruba, and I also know that the Aruban Authorities not only beat this kid in an effort to get him to “confess” to harming Natalee, but they unlawfully arrested his father and many of his friends to pressure him into signing a confession.
Regards,
Julia Renfro

Thanks for this letter Celeste. The above sentence is classic Renfro. Defending the justice system by pointing out how many laws it broke?

Thanks Scoop

Well, IgSigs,  Julia can't even tell the truth about a lie!!    JORAN said that he called the cop a name and the cop turned off the tape and swatted Joran out of his chair for calling him a name. . . . .he was NOT beating him trying to make him confess to anything.

Even ALE gets their fill of that smirk and smart mouth it seems.

Never have I encountered such collective lying.  They just change the facts of anything to fit their agenda of the moment.  Case in point Julia doing just that with this email.

What justice system?  The Jello Justice is all I see happening there.  The laws quickly conform to whatever is needed at the moment to exhonerate the Dutch Elitist and his devil spawn!  

I have nothing of this computer as all my stuff is in Birmingham hopefully with LE now but somewhere there is a transcript of Joran describing this incident and he says nothing about being beaten to confess.  In fact he is smirking once again about the whole incident as though he found it amusing to annoy the LE officer that badly.  What fun that boy had as a guest of his Uncle Ben in KIA!!  

[Kat_Gram]

Does anyone recall the date around which Paulus was no longer allowed to have visitation alone with Joran? Remember that? There were concerns he was coaching him even then?

And it was Anita who called out the ALE for exceeding the interrogation time limit on one occasion for I believe it was the warden for KIA who divulged that too?

June 17, 2005 – Dutch judge Bob Wit rules that Paulus not be allowed visitation with Joran. Wit also barred Carlos (Joran’s attorney) from visting b/c Carlo had visited with security guards during their arrest.  Joran’s family hires Richie Kock and Arjan Debie as attorneys for Joran.  Judge Wit extends remand of J2K

And the reason he visited the guards was because they were paid off.  This is why the guards aren't suing over their arrest.

Paid off by whom ? And why ?

[Tylergal]

THIS IS JMHO.

It does not matter who paid whom off, as it was all paid off.  Remember this is an American tourist, not just any Amerian tourist, but one who was from a family who had connections not only through business but whose family had connections to their congressman, by virtue of the fact, they lived in the same vicinity, and kids probably attended school together at one time.  

Anyone who has any money of any means in Aruba was willing to pay off anyone just to keep this story about a lovely American girl dying there from being planted on the SPORTER, who is the criminal.  They did not want Americans believing a SPORTER could do such an awful thing.  They either had to blame it on the victim, blame it on her friends or blame it on some interloper drug addict who found her on the beach.  I am sure it was going to be blamed on Van Looney or Van Nutty Boeti but it did not wash, and now we are without someone to take the fall for Anita's SPORTER.

[Tylergal]

Everyone was paid off from Abraham to Greta.

[San]

Does anyone recall the date around which Paulus was no longer allowed to have visitation alone with Joran? Remember that? There were concerns he was coaching him even then?

And it was Anita who called out the ALE for exceeding the interrogation time limit on one occasion for I believe it was the warden for KIA who divulged that too?

June 17, 2005 – Dutch judge Bob Wit rules that Paulus not be allowed visitation with Joran. Wit also barred Carlos (Joran’s attorney) from visting b/c Carlo had visited with security guards during their arrest.  Joran’s family hires Richie Kock and Arjan Debie as attorneys for Joran.  Judge Wit extends remand of J2K

And the reason he visited the guards was because they were paid off.  This is why the guards aren't suing over their arrest.

Paid off by whom ? And why ?

Paid off by Paulus.  Not to sue for being falesly implicated in the murder of Natalee because of Joran's lie.  Let's not forget the guards also spent time in the cell next to Deepak.  Deepak talks a lot.

[Tylergal]

Notice how early on Posner put himself out ahead of the story by his public gratuities but that had nothing to do with what was going on behind the scenes.  I am not saying Posner had one single thing to do with the acquisition of Natalee, just saying he DID NOT WANT THE BAD publicity of this happening at the HI.  That would cast a light on him from the government who he does not want looking down into his dealings, as he is already a convicted criminal who might be ready for strike 3.

[mrs. red]

Notice how early on Posner put himself out ahead of the story by his public gratuities but that had nothing to do with what was going on behind the scenes.  I am not saying Posner had one single thing to do with the acquisition of Natalee, just saying he DID NOT WANT THE BAD publicity of this happening at the HI.  That would cast a light on him from the government who he does not want looking down into his dealings, as he is already a convicted criminal who might be ready for strike 3.

Yes, and why was he so angry about the release of the casino tapes?

[Anna]

One has to factor into the equation one arrogant Dutch a$$hole that thought he was smarter than all the rest and making scapegoats out of two black security guards probably seemed like the perfect sacrifice.  Surely, this Alabama family would be pleased with those results and look no further, but he was wrong.

The next mistake they all made was trying to paint Natalee as drunk and out of control.  That was all just fine until someone questioned her ability to consent to sexual advances if she was passing out every few minutes.  Time to adjust the story once again and she became very cognitive and Joran would not submit to her advances because he had no latex that night.

Someone has been orchestrating this from the beginning and that is why there have been so many unofficial statements.  Each time a problem is pointed out in a statement it is adjusted in an effort to minimize the possible legal hurdle.

This is so obvious Ray Charles could have seen what was going on with this mess!

Easywriter,

This is what I have been trying to explain and calling "designer Lies" from especially Joran. You said it much better than I.  When a fact becomes known to the Sloots, Joran comes out with one of his very odd statements for they have the information before we do.  They get the info from ALE, Joran tells whopper to cover it.  We say hummm. . .wonder why he said THAT?  Then we get the info finally that he told the lie to cover.  He already has his lie in place!

It is truly a concerted effort on the part of ALE, the Prosecutor and the defense lawyers to PREVENT any collection of evidence with which to take the suspects to court.  At least the Dutch Elite suspects.

.

[Tylergal]

Notice how early on Posner put himself out ahead of the story by his public gratuities but that had nothing to do with what was going on behind the scenes.  I am not saying Posner had one single thing to do with the acquisition of Natalee, just saying he DID NOT WANT THE BAD publicity of this happening at the HI.  That would cast a light on him from the government who he does not want looking down into his dealings, as he is already a convicted criminal who might be ready for strike 3.

Yes, and why was he so angry about the release of the casino tapes?

[/b]BINGO.

[sharon]

Does anyone else find it interesting we never heard complaints from David Koch or the security guards, that they were mistreated in the KIA, yet we did hear Joran complain loudly?

So IF it were Joran who made the confession "something bad happened" and then Paulus succeeded in squashing that by playing the system to make the confession inadmissable, then since as I recall the judges were on a travel circuit aren't they ..... then wouldn't it seem likely it was Joran who made that confession if the ruling came down six days later?

So maybe there is some truth to Janssen having no love lost for Paulus, for he beat her at their own game?

Hi nonesuche -- so good to see you:-)

There's a part of me that believes that it's not so much that evidence went 'poof' as it is that Paulus managed to make any evidence 'inadmissable'. Either interrogations after hours, or something 'imperfect' in the chain of evidence. I think he is know for being this type of stickler and using the letter of the law to his advantage.

IMO -- Paulus was  arrested SOLELY for the purpose of allowing him access to Joran. And as we've seen -- it was either an unlawful arrest, or unlawful release. Not sure which -- but Paulus got paid for it. As he (and maybe VDS and/or KJ) knew he would.


Tylergal & Hammer -- the part about Joran's June 9th statement that has my head spinning is this part at the end:

"You are informing me that when I was first interviewed as a witness that I told the detective that Natalee and me got out of the car close to/near Fisherman's Hut and walked in the sea.
To your question as to what I can state about that, I answer you that I did not say that. It also isn't in my witness statement."

So on the 30th in school -- natalee hit her head.
Later that evening into the early hours of the 31st with the Twitty's at the vds house -- it was the Holiday Inn.

Now we're hearing somewhere before the 9th June, but after the 31st May -- the detectives think he mentions the beach and fisherman's huts. Which he states on the 9th he NEVER said.

Even though that has turned out to be his final story now.


(I haven't had much time, but I've been reading all of the analysis and comments.  You guys are the best )

[Tylergal]

They called in the best from the very beginning to denigrate and obfuscate:  Rizzo is the person who was called in to do this.  He is known for planting false evidence, misleading an investigation.  It's old Chicago type mob work, paid for by Posner.

[nonesuche]

Hi Anna-

The only mention of abuse to Joran occurred in his interview with Greta, remember? He stated how he was hit on the side of the head by an LE? It was Joe T who complained he had been interrogated endlessly along with momma Anita Sloot.

Mrs Red-

I think Posner was upset for obvious reasons as tyler stated, but also because that casino tape shows paulus was there sitting next to Natalee.

[Tylergal]

I think we can just rename Anita.  Madonna of Aruba.  She obviously feels she is Madonna as by its correct definition, but then was trying to create a little of the starlet impression by wearing the see-through-blouse.  Madonna of Aruba = Anita.

[San]

Notice how early on Posner put himself out ahead of the story by his public gratuities but that had nothing to do with what was going on behind the scenes.  I am not saying Posner had one single thing to do with the acquisition of Natalee, just saying he DID NOT WANT THE BAD publicity of this happening at the HI.  That would cast a light on him from the government who he does not want looking down into his dealings, as he is already a convicted criminal who might be ready for strike 3.

Yes, and why was he so angry about the release of the casino tapes?

Because he is gambling with dear old dad and he is underage and pervert Paulus is sitting right next to Natalee who is minding her own business.  If Posner would have thrown Joran out we all wouldn't be here discussing this case because Natalee would be alive.

[nonesuche]

sharon-

You and I agree, I think Paulus out-maneuvered Jassen and the ALE at every turn.

Good to see you too

[nonesuche]

I think we can just rename Anita.  Madonna of Aruba.  She obviously feels she is Madonna as by its correct definition, but then was trying to create a little of the starlet impression by wearing the see-through-blouse.  Madonna of Aruba = Anita.

      I've missed you    

[mrs. red]

Hi Anna-

The only mention of abuse to Joran occurred in his interview with Greta, remember? He stated how he was hit on the side of the head by an LE? It was Joe T who complained he had been interrogated endlessly along with momma Anita Sloot.

Mrs Red-

I think Posner was upset for obvious reasons as tyler stated, but also because that casino tape shows paulus was there sitting next to Natalee.

To me, even if that wasn't pvds.... it shows even more... it shows that the entire thing is a lie... because jvds wasn't even on Natalee's radar... she would not have been waving to him and asking him to dance, or doing belly shots UNLESS they gave her a "$20" drink....